When did The Simpsons get bad?

[Leo656]

I think when the entire POINT of the cameos became "celebrity ass-kissing" is when people ran out of patience with it.

I mean, the classic episodes had the stuff with the Ramones, Aerosmith, the softball episode with all those MLB stars... really clever and well-executed stuff. There were tons of really great celebrity cameos, including many episodes with several at once, like the Krusty one with Bette Midler, Johnny Carson, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Luke Perry, Elizabeth Taylor... that was one stuffed episode, and comes very highly-regarded.

The newer stuff from like the mid-00s onward is just... pandering, ass-kissing nonsense. I mean, the Lady Gaga bullsh*t pretty much exemplifies the entire problem. It's not clever, it's not well-written, it's just "Look who we threw a truckload of cash at THIS week!" They don't put any thought or effort into it anymore.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Prowler

What was even the first episode to do the whole celebrity guest thing wrong?

Bret Hart was in a Simpsons episode back in the early 90s and no one has a problem with such episode. Leonard Nimoy was in the monorail episode too and that one is a classic.

The first instance I can think of is that episode where Lisa becomes a vegetarian and has a conversation with Paul McCartney and his wife.

The Simpsons used to parody and make fun of celebrities. They'd even parody their characters. McBain is clearly based on Schwarzenegger while Tatum is based on Mike Tyson.

But, after a certain point, celebrity guests just took the focal point of episodes and the show just began kissing their asses.

Yeah, in those early examples, the celebs mostly voiced characters, but didn't portray themselves, and even if they did the episode wasn't mostly devoted to them.

There was a plot and the celeb would contribute to the plot or make a short cameo, but the entire plot wasn't just 'hey guys, so and so is here!'.

For example, the Flamin' Moe's episode was mostly about Homer making the drink and Moe making money off it without crediting Homer. Aerosmith appears in the third act and isn't the focal point of the entire episode.

The monorail episode was about that one dude ripping off the town and Homer getting to run it. Leonard Nimoy just randomly showed up around the third act as well and wasn't the focal point of the episode, he just happened to show up.

Even the Micheal Jackson episode dealt with Homer being sent to the loony bin and had the Lisa birthday subplot. I admit most of the episode about MJ but he wasn't even portraying himself. Same with Homer's brother being voiced by Danny DeVito, the episode was about Homer's brother not 'oh hey guys, what's Danny DeVito doing in Springfield????'

The Lady Gaga episode was strictly 'oh hey guys, Lady Gaga, AMIRITE? What? Why isn't Lisa excite about Lady Gaga, but Lisa, it's Lady Gaga'.

The earlier episodes could be called the Flamin' Moe's episode, Homer's brother episodes, the monorail episode, hell even the MJ impersonator episode, but the Gaga episode was quite literally just.... the Gaga episode.

[Prowler]

Yes, exactly. You guys nailed it.

The first celebrity focused episode that didn't sit well with me was the Mel Gibson one. It just wasn't entertaining. Felt like they were kissing his ass too much instead of making jokes about him.

Reminds me of WWE and their celebrity guest hosts from over a decade ago. Just very cringe desperate attempts at getting mainstream attention. Very different from Mike zTysons appearances in early 1998. That was a perfect use of a celebrity by WWE and didn't make the product look bad or desperate.

[Jester]

Tonight was again Lisa heavy...also sucked.

[AquaParade]

It’s sad that the voice actors are still around and being wasted on cruddy scripts. I have a hard time understanding why they can’t get the show back in shape with some better writers, or even writers from the golden age.

Btw, I’m fine with the sliding timescale, but it can feel really awkward for someone who is so ingrained in the early episodes. I watched the first episode of season 33, the other night, and it opened with Homer & Marge explaining “Y2K” to Bart and Lisa, while watching old home videos from 1999, wherein Homer and Marge were teenagers. Trippy.

[Leo656]

My guess would be, just general apathy on multiple fronts.

[Prowler]

There are two ways they could fix that. Either age the characters or simply stop doing flashback and time travelling episodes for good.

But an even better thing to do would be to have pulled the plug off over a decade ago.

And yes, changes in the writing staff ddid hurt the show's quality after 1996 or so, but that was nearly 30 years ago already. Couldn't they have found some good writers since then?

The problem might run deeper than that. Perhaps even Matt Groening himself no longer cares about The Simpsons other than the money it still brings him after all these years.

[Wildcat]

I agree this weeks episode about Krusty losing his franchise and Grandpa’s burger partner was not good. It was not Lisa focused though.

However last weeks episode was great. Where Marge and Bart bond over pranks and Homer tries to bond with Lisa over food. It was funny and endearing.

This is what I personally meant. I still enjoy the show overall but some episodes are way better or worse than others.

On a side note Disney has allowed jokes about them which is cool imo. There’s a modern episode from last year I think. They say Disney runs the government with fireworks spelling out Disney in the official font.

[Coola Yagami]

It's funny looking back but Simpsons was probably one of the first shows or at least animated shows to have the words hell, damn, crap/crappy on regular TV. Hell they even said bastard in the episode of Homer's brother.

Plus other concepts like beer, people getting drunk off actual alcohol, people going to church, people mooning people, strippers, etc. Even the concept of kids being bad troublemakers. Like Bart knows he's up to no good. People like Dennis the Menace were more naïve and purposely causing trouble, it just happened. Like you don't see kids talking back to their parents the way Bart mouths off to Homer. I mean he even calls him Homer and rarely calls him dad. That's lack of respect right there.

Idk I remember the Flintstones had cactus juice but I think it varied from being an expy of beer or soda or just juice depending on the episode. I don't remember the Jetsons having any type of alcohol equivalent.

[Jester]

Wow...this Sunday's episode was terrible. What a waste of Hugh Jackman. Always love rich Hollywood "elites" discussing the decline of the middle class. I'd kill to make over 6 million a year to do silly voices.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Jester

Wow...this Sunday's episode was terrible. What a waste of Hugh Jackman. Always love rich Hollywood "elites" discussing the decline of the middle class. I'd kill to make over 6 million a year to do silly voices.

What was the episode about.... or was it just one of those 'hey guys, it's Hugh Jackman!' type of episodes.

[Jester]

It was called Poorhouse Rock. Bart goes to work with Homer and thinks Homer has a cushy dream job, but a magic janitor (Jackman) and (of course) Lisa (as well as other guest Robert Reich) tell him he'll never have life as good as his boomer dad thanks to Reaganomics and the demise of the middle class.

So you know fun stuff...

[Wildcat]

Again I’ll have to agree this episode was terrible. I hate politics and that’s all it was about. Waste of a season finale.

The couch gag was cool. The slightly different art with everyone older.

[ZariusTwo]

The Homer/Marge one from a few weeks back should have been the season finale

[superstaff]

I watched the episode, Meat is Murder, tonight after randomly picking it on a...website.

My God, what a horrible...awful...worthless episode. I was actually a little surprised by just how awful the writing was. It lacked focus because it keep jumping between Krusty, Lisa, Abe Simpson, and the guest star characters, and the 'glue' that held them all together was very flimsy. All of the characters were detestable, and felt OOC, and...wow, the voices are very bad especially Marge. There were various political jokes in it that felt disgustingly on the nose. Look at the title of this episode, and that alone should give you an idea of what the political leaning for this one is. I could go into more detail tomorrow or something, but...yeah, it sucked.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I watched the episode, Meat is Murder, tonight after randomly picking it on a...website.

My God, what a horrible...awful...worthless episode. I was actually a little surprised by just how awful the writing was. It lacked focus because it keep jumping between Krusty, Lisa, Abe Simpson, and the guest star characters, and the 'glue' that held them all together was very flimsy. All of the characters were detestable, and felt OOC, and...wow, the voices are very bad especially Marge. There were various political jokes in it that felt disgustingly on the nose. Look at the title of this episode, and that alone should give you an idea of what the political leaning for this one is. I could go into more detail tomorrow or something, but...yeah, it sucked.

Lisa has been a vegatwrian since the 90s already. Wasn't the episode where the became one enough already for the audience to get the point? Why make another one? They're afraid the audience forgot Lisa is vegetarian?

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Lisa has been a vegatwrian since the 90s already. Wasn't the episode where the became one enough already for the audience to get the point? Why make another one? They're afraid the audience forgot Lisa is vegetarian?

The episode isn't about Lisa being a vegetarian/vegan. It factors into the 'plot' a little, though it's not about that. I'll give you a summary if you want, it's very dumb and muddled.

[Prowler]

It's kinda sad what Lisa has become.

People forget that Lisa used to be a pretty good character in the classic seasons. She was clearly the smarter Simpson family member and you could tell she didn't really fit in with the family at times. A lot of us feel like we don't have much in common with the rest of our family. So Lisa was relatable in that sense.

Lisa was mostly the girl who had good grades and liked to play the saxophone and had a strong moral compass. She still had her silly and funny moments.

But eventually she just became more and more preachy and eventually turned into a very in your face activist.

I liked the episode where she cheated on a test. That was something new and explored a side of Lisa we hadn't seen before. Also liked the episode Ehre she met Bleeding Gums.

Lisa the Vegetarian not really. And I also didn't like that episode where she becomes Nelson's girlfriend. It made zero sense for that to happen and felt like a really bad "good girls like bad boys" cliché.

[superstaff]

I actually loved the Lisa/Nelson episode. I actually really liked the idea of them together, much more than her with Milhouse which is what's implied to be who she's stuck with in the future. Like, literally stuck with since she seems to be unhappy in her marriage in those 'future episodes'. Meh.

Though you're right about old school Lisa, who was a likable character.

In the episode I watched last night, she tries to manipulate her super senile grandpa in order to execute an agenda. God, that episode did no favors to anyone involved from Lisa to Abraham to Krusty to the guest star people. Terrible stuff.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I actually loved the Lisa/Nelson episode. I actually really liked the idea of them together, much more than her with Milhouse which is what's implied to be who she's stuck with in the future. Like, literally stuck with since she seems to be unhappy in her marriage in those 'future episodes'. Meh.

Though you're right about old school Lisa, who was a likable character.

In the episode I watched last night, she tries to manipulate her super senile grandpa in order to execute an agenda. God, that episode did no favors to anyone involved from Lisa to Abraham to Krusty to the guest star people. Terrible stuff.

I've never cared much about Lisa and Milhouse either. It's always been obvious to me that it was. A pretty one-sided attraction. I didn't know it eventually became canon that Lisa ends up with him in the future.

I like the idea of Lisa becoming the future president of the United States.