Good Genes

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Anarky

Yeah, right. And if I shouldn't read what the fans have to say, where is my place in this fandom? That's why I keep asking myself what I still find in the fandom or where my place is. And no, I don't think my stuff is completely "left field", because there were discussions like that (see "Tales of Yoshi" for example).

I understand what your saying. If you like we could mark out theories with Spoiler tags? That might be more fair.

[Raph's Girl]

I'll just say this... yes there are people who like to analyz the shows....it's called nit picking and it's so common among sci-fi fans that there's books about it (Nitpicker's guide to Star Trek is hilarious).

It's just a common thing in all fandom nomatter what...there'll always be people who like to look at a show, analyze it, and figure out what's going on about it.

I admit that Im one of those people. To this day I complain about a major plot hole in the final season of Sailor Moon (nobody noticed a plane full of people had gone missing?! )

It's just something that we all have to deal with whatever the fandom. *shrugs*

It would seem boring if there weren't people like that...nitpickers are needed.

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

oh ok death scenes, sadness, kissing between characters...ok thats all for the kids...yea sure..ok

Are death scenes really shown in TMNT? Mostly they are off-scene, safe for "Same as it never was" episode. And here comes another matter, quite dangerous for the young minds, I daresay. Death is not presented in this show as something irrevocable - see multiple returns of allegedly dead Shredder of Baxter or the fact that Leo, Raph and Mikey were alive in the episodes following SAINW - as they were killed ONLY in one universe.

Plus - sadness and kissing are shown in 90% of kiddy shows - and hello, that's nothing explicit. Nor is violence that barely does any harm to the main characters for that matter. And no one cusses here. The fact "TMNT" looks more serious doesn't mean this show isn't PRIMARILY targeted to the pre-teen and early teen segment of the audience or deserves so solemnly in-depth interpretations. But yeah, if anyone wants to analyse - way to go. This ain't prohibited in here.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

I'll just say this... yes there are people who like to analyz the shows....it's called nit picking and it's so common among sci-fi fans that there's books about it (Nitpicker's guide to Star Trek is hilarious).

It's just a common thing in all fandom nomatter what...there'll always be people who like to look at a show, analyze it, and figure out what's going on about it.

I admit that Im one of those people. To this day I complain about a major plot hole in the final season of Sailor Moon (nobody noticed a plane full of people had gone missing?! )

It's just something that we all have to deal with whatever the fandom. *shrugs*

It would seem boring if there weren't people like that...nitpickers are needed.

Your not alone dude. To this day I still complain about He-man and the Maters of the Universe's(the 2002 version) dismal last episode.

[iris]

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

I'll just say this... yes there are people who like to analyze the shows....it's called nit picking and it's so common among sci-fi fans that there's books about it (Nitpicker's guide to Star Trek is hilarious).

There's a huge difference between analyzing (looking at & connecting details) and nitpicking (criticizing details); please do not get them mixed up.

TMNT really is general fantasy, not sci-fi. TMNT generally makes no pretense at being based on any kind of "real" technological principles or rules of nature, which is what sci-fi is always expected to do. That's why we know several properties of naquada and its variant, naquadria, in Stargate, but we don't know even one secret about the ooze in TMNT.

[Aska_Badoura]

That's why we know several properties of naquada and its variant, naquadria, in Stargate, but we don't know even one secret about the ooze in TMNT.

*coughs* Quoting Don, in "Secret Origins", "So, the chemical makeup of the ooze is caused by the inter-dimensional shift of non-essential sub-atomic particles." LOL, I know what you mean, though. That's not supposed to actually mean anything, it just sounds cool. Sci-fi tries to give you something halfway plausible.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Sewer Bull

Are death scenes really shown in TMNT? Mostly they are off-scene, safe for "Same as it never was" episode. And here comes another matter, quite dangerous for the young minds, I daresay. Death is not presented in this show as something irrevocable - see multiple returns of allegedly dead Shredder of Baxter or the fact that Leo, Raph and Mikey were alive in the episodes following SAINW - as they were killed ONLY in one universe.

Plus - sadness and kissing are shown in 90% of kiddy shows - and hello, that's nothing explicit. Nor is violence that barely does any harm to the main characters for that matter. And no one cusses here. The fact "TMNT" looks more serious doesn't mean this show isn't PRIMARILY targeted to the pre-teen and early teen segment of the audience or deserves so solemnly in-depth interpretations. But yeah, if anyone wants to analyse - way to go. This ain't prohibited in here.

dude seriously chill out...I'm sticking to my guns the point I am trying to make is that allot of you run around dissmissing this just as a kids show.
and if you'd actully look in the first place I did say it is but you know what it's not at the same time it's a show forevery one...to me a kids show is sesame street or barney or something like that....to me that's a kids only show...
let me say once again the point I am was and will be trying to make is that this show is made for not just one audience and I would like to think I'm not the only damn person who thinks this right? or hell maybe I am...oh well
-Putrescent

[Masked Ninja]

Hello! Earth's calling Putrescent! This show has no adult-oriented or even innocently kinky jokes in it. By contrast, it had a few fart jokes... So, what were you talking about "kid's show"?

I agree with Aska...

While I am always turned off by fart jokes, there are actually fewer in this show than most cartoons aimed at kids.

As for the "kinky" bit... don't get me started. I find it disgusting that adults are only interested in cartoons if there are (thinly veiled or not) sex jokes. Are we as a society really that sick? :\ I don't find that stuff funny or mature at all.

But I digress. "Kid" cartoons are usually FOR the kids because they aren't terribly complex. They're usually bright and colorful and rarely extend past the realm of the obvious.

This is more of an animated series. We have character development. We have serious situations that are about as realistic as possible, given the premise. Characters actually get hurt if beat up enough (how long were those bandages on after Exodus? ...3 episodes?). There are a lot of subtle hints and continuity that even a lot of "adult" cartoons don't touch. If this were aimed ONLY at kids, would we be watching a show that in its 4th season requires knowledge of almost the entire series to get all the intricacies? Because the age group they're supposedly shooting for doesn't have that kind of attention span. I get the impression that the simpler jokes (and yes, the occasional but rare fart gag) are thrown in so that there's still stuff IN there for kids!

And for the record, I don't consider Gargoyles to be a "kid" cartoon either. Animated shows don't have to have kinky jokes or be anime to avoid being "kids-only."

*sigh* And there I went. [/rant], MN out.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

I agree with Aska...

While I am always turned off by fart jokes, there are actually fewer in this show than most cartoons aimed at kids.

As for the "kinky" bit... don't get me started. I find it disgusting that adults are only interested in cartoons if there are (thinly veiled or not) sex jokes. Are we as a society really that sick? :\ I don't find that stuff funny or mature at all.

But I digress. "Kid" cartoons are usually FOR the kids because they aren't terribly complex. They're usually bright and colorful and rarely extend past the realm of the obvious.

This is more of an animated series. We have character development. We have serious situations that are about as realistic as possible, given the premise. Characters actually get hurt if beat up enough (how long were those bandages on after Exodus? ...3 episodes?). There are a lot of subtle hints and continuity that even a lot of "adult" cartoons don't touch. If this were aimed ONLY at kids, would we be watching a show that in its 4th season requires knowledge of almost the entire series to get all the intricacies? Because the age group they're supposedly shooting for doesn't have that kind of attention span. I get the impression that the simpler jokes (and yes, the occasional but rare fart gag) are thrown in so that there's still stuff IN there for kids!

And for the record, I don't consider Gargoyles to be a "kid" cartoon either. Animated shows don't have to have kinky jokes or be anime to avoid being "kids-only."

*sigh* And there I went. [/rant], MN out.

that's exactly what I'm talking about thank you...

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

dude seriously chill out...

Why should I chill out? Did I attack anyone? Did I insult anyone?
No. I've just stated my opinion that apparently isn't welcomed here.

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

As for the "kinky" bit... don't get me started. I find it disgusting that adults are only interested in cartoons if there are (thinly veiled or not) sex jokes. Are we as a society really that sick? :\ I don't find that stuff funny or mature at all.

Kinky jokes =/= hardcore sex jokes.

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

If this were aimed ONLY at kids, would we be watching a show that in its 4th season requires knowledge of almost the entire series to get all the intricacies?

I used the word "PRIMARILY" and it rather means "MAINLY" than "ONLY", as far as I know. BTW - I really think we have different points of view on the matter who "a kid" actually is.

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

I get the impression that the simpler jokes (and yes, the occasional but rare fart gag) are thrown in so that there's still stuff IN there for kids!

... and the fact death in this show is mainly off-scene... and there's no blood... by contrast, there's a wide toyline accompanying the show. Yeah, definitely kids are not the main target for this animated series.

[Aska_Badoura]

Um... call me a hypocrite, but now I think I want to say that what audience the show is trying to target is not the issue here.
This is an anybody-can-watch-it series, and so was Gargoyles (well, mostly; as a Christian, I have a few very conservative friends who think any television violence is horrifying, and in the case of Gargoyles, "Gasp! They're demonic!" but their kids are perfectly happy watching non-violent alternatives, so to each his own. I volunteer with another Christian whose five-year-old is a TMNT fanatic [and most of his friends, she says, aren't allowed to watch it, which she also thinks is kind of silly. There are good moral lessons to be had!]. He likes to come with his mom so he can talk Turtles with me ). There's enough site gags and silliness to keep children (and some of us who are easily entertained ) quite amused, and enough deep stuff to please any analyzer. There's the occasional mush, to keep the typical little girl and most hopeless romantics pleased (I are one ), enough action to satisfy any typical boy's or action/martial arts fan's want for that, quite a bit more genuine drama than a lot of other American animated shows (though I've noticed American animation has been getting better with that over the years), and animation good enough, on average, to make those of us in that field/leaning in that direction, go "ooooh". Good writing, good art, a wide audience, what more can you ask for?

Now, how about "Good Genes"?

[iris]

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

*coughs* Quoting Don, in "Secret Origins", "So, the chemical makeup of the ooze is caused by the inter-dimensional shift of non-essential sub-atomic particles." LOL, I know what you mean, though. That's not supposed to actually mean anything, it just sounds cool. Sci-fi tries to give you something halfway plausible.

I love love love Don's babblespeak. He's so mind-blowingly brilliant that nothing he says is comprehensible. Sez I, Stockman's got nothin' on our boy.

But right now all Donnie says is "RAAARW!!!!" I feel a tad traitorous because I kind of like him as a bloodthirsty monster.

[Raph's Girl]

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

but their kids are perfectly happy watching non-violent alternatives, so to each his own. I volunteer with another Christian whose five-year-old is a TMNT fanatic [and most of his friends, she says, aren't allowed to watch it,

Yea... I know how that is....I grew up in a strict Christian household where there were few shows I was allowed to watch.... The Simpsons was banned cuz my dad believed Bart was a bad influence

Full House was a no no cuz my dad hated Bob Saget for some reason (to this day I haven't seen every ep)...same with America's Funniest Home Videos.

TMNT was one of the shows I was allowed to watch....my parents encouraged my TMNT fandom because I had friends thru it (the whole neighborhood came to our house to watch it ) and from it I started learning about the artists they were named after. My mom's a major Mikey fan, My dad's a Leo fan, my step-dad is a Don fan (he considers Don to be his hero).

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Sewer Bull

Why should I chill out? Did I attack anyone? Did I insult anyone?
No. I've just stated my opinion that apparently isn't welcomed here.

You should chill out because it's just a kids show remember no reason to make such a big deal of it.
And yes actually you are attacking me by the way you are talking to me in your previous posts...and quite frankly I don't appreciate it because I don't have any problem with you....when I voice that I do not for a second believe this show is just for kids you attack me with insults.
you are entitled to you opinion but you don't need to make fun or insult people in the process..I mean really it's like saying ooo I'm gonna get some honey while smacking a nest of bees.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

You should chill out because it's just a kids show remember no reason to make such a big deal of it.....when I voice that I do not for a second believe this show is just for kids

Kind of a contradicting opinion, there. In your eyes, is it a kids show or not? Quite confusing.

[Cascadia]

To me, it is a kids show but the adults that watched TMNT when they were kids can come back to their fandom. I think that this is what happened in 2003 when the new series came out. It is a show that both kids and adults can watch and enjoy it together. There are not too many cartoons like that on TV right now. There are cartoons that have adult-related issues that are not appropriate for children. Also, there are some kids' cartoons that some adults may or may not have interest watching.

[Masked Ninja]

I just don't like the "kid's show" label because that implies that's the only group that can enjoy it. This one crosses age groups, and I really do believe that only people our age can fully enjoy everything.

It's marketed towards kids (toys, crappy 3-5 episode DVDs), but the show itself doesn't do a very good job of staying on a "kid" level. The old cartoon... now that one did a better job of matching its target group.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the offscreen death and lack of blood to be juvenile. I could handle characters actually taking their last breath onscreen, but animated gore looks really fake and creepy to me.
Which is another thing... you also don't need gratuitous violence to make something "suitable for adults." Most of the time, silhouettes are even more intense because your imagination can run wild on what's happening. Though I do wish they could show minor cuts... y'know, like red lines? Splinter really needed one in "The Ancient One."

And I wasn't talking about hardcore sex jokes... I don't find most innuendo funny either. Must be why I hardly watch TV anymore... it is possible to have good, clean humor and action.

Beh, don't mind me. I'm just so tired of half the world assuming animation is entirely a for-kids medium. I know you guys don't think it is... but still. I like the show how it is, and I maintain that it's probably aimed more at our crowd than the kids... but still somewhere between.

[iris]

Guys, if you're going to guess the intent of the writers, then unless you bring one of the actual writers into the conversation you're going to keep going around in circles.

This is a TVY7-FV rated show, part of a programming segment called "4Kids" and supported by merchandising targeted at kids. According the network it's "safe" for kids 7 and up who can tolerate a little violence. It hits you over the head with vital plot elements (Don: "OMG MY LEG! THE GIANT MUTATED BEASTIE BUG GUY HURT IT! OWIE!!!" x3) and it has "cool" things and silly jokes that kids are supposed to like. By any classic definition, this is a "kids' show."

But it's for kids the same way The Hobbit is. Which is to say, it doesn't matter. It's can still be high quality stuff.

This convo is making me dizzy. Or it could be the fever. Better go lie down before my family has to resort to handing me over to my mortal enemy to be cured. Though I can't figure what Clay Aiken would be able to do for me.

Speaking of that, what do you think about Donatello in Stockman's hands?

[Masked Ninja]

Originally Posted by iris

Speaking of that, what do you think about Donatello in Stockman's hands?

It makes me nervous, a bit. Just because of Stockman's obvious jealousy for our brainiac Turtle. That kinda creeped me out this episode, actually... just how keen he seemed on putting Don's talents down and gloating over the fact that he's now completely buried inside this primal beast.

*sigh* Sorry, everyone. I must have been in a ranting mood... and that's the kind of loserish stuff I rant about.

[Aska_Badoura]

Could anyone with the episode taped give me the script from that last part? Obviously Bishop said something that made the Turtles go D: ... but I missed what led up to it.

Oh! Sorry, Mask, I forgot you asked for that... do you still need a recap?

EDIT: Ah, I just did it anyway. *shrug*

Leatherhead freaks, and falls on his knees on the floor, Donnie is gonna attack him, when he gets hit with a tranquilizer dart. The next shot reveals that Leo was the one who tranked him. "Donnie, I'm sorry, but this is for your own good." Don comes *growl snarl* down the catwalk at Leo, who walks slowly toward him, steadily shooting tranquilizers (and looking like he's really steeled himself to do this, it's hard for him), until, after eight more (!), poor Don finally gets sluggish and collapses. Leo crouches at his side, rubs his shell, "It's gonna be all right, Donnie". (blub! )

Next scene has Donnie floating in a containment unit. Baxter says: "Hmm. Donatello's body appears to be breaking down at a fantastic rate, due to secondary stage mutations caused by the outbreak accelerant. He doesn't have much time. The animal was right," he adds, snidely, referring, I think, to Leatherhead, who growls at him, not amused. Leatherhead says, "Leonardo, this is wrong. We cannot leave Donatello's fate to these devils. Stockman cannot be trusted. And him!" he indicates Bishop, "if you only knew what he was capable of!" His eyes change. He's not a happy croc.

Raph chimes in. "Leatherhead's right, Leo! Bishop's the enemy! He's the one that caused the outbreak in the first place!"

Bishop says, "Stockman created the genetic accelerant on my orders. What you call the 'outbreak virus' is an unintended side-effect of... one of my operations."

Leo says, "Do you have a cure?"

Silence. Bishop looks at the guys. The guys look at Bishop. Bishop subtly looks at Baxter. Baxter shakes his head minutely. Bishop looks back at the guys. "Yes," he lies, with a smug smile (hisssss!). "But as I said earlier, I need something from you." The guys exchange narrow-eyed glances, and Leo says, "Name it."

"A simple errand, really. There is an item I require. A relic, that may prove crucial to my work. I want you to retrieve it for me."

"Retrieve it? From where?"

"New York. In fact, I believe you know the woman who currently holds it. Her name is... Karai."

Everyone goes, gasp! The end.