Could TMNT beat any other Super Hero Team?

[heretic888]

If they had to expose themselves to stop the planet from being eaten I think they would consider it

Yes. They would be much more likely to stop a towering planet-eater than, say, a squadron of Tomahawks armed with small warheads. Yup.

No, they just wouldn't get involved.

But they wouldn't because they know they wouldn't be able to win....It would be a futile attempt so they'd stay outta it.

Yup.

Yeah, Juggernaut's got eye-holes. But his arms are also exposed and impervious to damage--even from Wolverine's claws.

Nope. Sorry. Shatterstar's sword did quite a number on Juggy --- helmet or no. And besides, the entire point of removing the helmet is to get as his head --- which, last time I checked, includes the eyes.

Spidey didn't have formal training, this is true. But fight after fight after fight with enemies who want to kill you kind of compensates for that. Don't you think?

No. Particularly when you are stronger, faster, and/or more powerful than the "enemies" in question.

No, Juggernaut is NOT stupid, you're thinking of Rhino. Juggernaut is somewhat uneducated but he is mostly angry. He hates his step-brother Prof. X because Prof. had powers while he didn't. Then he found that Cytorrak gem and became powerful. But his anger towards Xavier made him lose. Not his intelligence or lack thereof.

No, I am recalling Juggy quite clearly. And he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Besides, in the heat of battle, if you can't control your anger --- than your actions could indeed be construed as "stupid".

And I did say the TMNT weapons wouldn't break his armor because of common friggin' sense. Savvy?

You actually haven't employed a lot of "common friggin' sense" to this discussion. Particularly to someone that knows a thing or two about martial arts and military training. Savvy??

As before, smashing someone's head in is not the only way to succeed in a confrontation. Fight smart, not strong.

And out-feraling means going wild and crazy like a wolf or bobcat. Raph gives in to his anger and is NOT a feral creature.

What you described is exactly the same thing. Unless you would like to provide the links to animal psychological sources that differentiate the two.

The "giving in to anger" is an inheritance from our evolutionary past --- and it is indeed very feral and "primitive" in orientation.

I suggest studying some psychological texts on the subject before making dubious claims.

Raph would be the last one standing because his rage and adrenaline would make him last longer. Leo would be last to fall before Raph. Leo has the skill, yes, but not the instinct like Raph. The instinct to survive and keep going even when the battle turns ill. Leo runs away most of the time because of that fact. To fight again another day. Raph doesn't care. He'll continue the fight until he wins or dies...like Wolverine. Yeah?

Nope, sorry.

I suggest you go into a martial arts dojo and use "all instinct". See how long you last.

This might be a shock, but "instinct" is a detriment against extremely skilled opponents. I should know, I had to deal with my "instinctual" impulses (as all martial artists do) when I began training. You eventually begin to control your impulses, and learn to move and fight in a more advanced manner.

Adrenaline only takes you so far. The most "pumped-up" guy in the world will stall fall if you slit his throat, or smash his temples in.

This, again, sounds like you making authoritative claims about subjects you actually have very little knowledge or experience of. You certainly won't hear me making authoritative claims about quantum physics or evolutionary biology/chemistry, which is akin to what you're doing now.

Wolverine has taken on more than four at a time and won AND lost...let's agree to disagree on that one.

What disagreement?? Wolverine has taken on more than four at a time and won. He has also taken on more than four at a time and lost. In addition, the has taken on only one at a time and won. And, he has taken on only one at a time and lost.

The "numbers" don't factor into it at all.

And the fact that the TMNT have taken on more than four doesn't enter into the debate. We're talking TMNT versus one.

That's funny... considering you were using the TMNT's supposed inability to take on any great numbers outside of thugs (an unfounded and false claim) to "prove" they couldn't defeat Wolverine.

Spider-Man has also outsmarted the X-Men. I said SOME. Not all.

Prove it. Cite references.

And you're wrong about Spidey not getting used to the TMNT fighting technique. Do you even know how Spider-Man fights? He jumps around and learns the pattern of his enemy or enemies while quipping and thwipping. Then when he gets the right oppurtunity, he strikes. Right?

How can one learn the pattern of that which is formless??

Yes, I know how Spider-Man fights. Sounds to me that you don't know how ninjutsuka fight.

And no you didn't mention the Ultimate line but you DID refer to Spider-Man as a kid--which he is in the Ultimate line and NOT in regular Marvel continuity. Hello.

I see. So, Spidey was never a kid in the original comics, huh? Interesting.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

And yes, I know we're talking about fictional characters and hypothetical situations here --- but, if you're going to make authoritative claims about hand-to-hand combat, animal psychology, and the like, you should really actually learn what you're talking about. I've talked with many experts in both fields, and they would all laugh at the comments you've made.

*chuckle* Laterz.

[cqb101]

Originally Posted by heretic888

Nope. Sorry. Shatterstar's sword did quite a number on Juggy --- helmet or no. And besides, the entire point of removing the helmet is to get as his head --- which, last time I checked, includes the eyes.

Nope, sorry. They don't remove the hel;met to attack the head, they remove it so that a psychic can get into his mind and stop him. Las I checked the TMNT aren't psychics.

[heretic888]

Nope, sorry. They don't remove the hel;met to attack the head, they remove it so that a psychic can get into his mind and stop him. Las I checked the TMNT aren't psychics.

Heh. Depends on your criteria for "psychic".

In any event, unless the TMNT were provided with some in-depth information detailing Juggernaut's weaknesses, my guess is that they would either:

1) Not get in a fight with him.
2) If forced into a fight, attempt to escape as quickly as possible.
3) If continually forced into a fight, would attempt to use stealth, hit-and-run scatter tactics, and acrobatics to cause him to "defeat himself" (i.e., having buildings fall on him, causing the ground below him to collapse, trap him in cement, etc.).

Laterz.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by cqb101

But they wouldn't because they know they wouldn't be able to win....It would be a futile attempt so they'd stay outta it.

The turtles would try and help even if they knew they would lose. That way they knew they atleast died trying to help the planet. Don would probly make a robot of some sort and try to fight with him toe to toe. The would lose for sure but they wouldnt just sit there and wait to die. If the turtles were quitters they wouldnt be alive to date

[heretic888]

The turtles would try and help even if they knew they would lose. That way they knew they atleast died trying to help the planet [...] The would lose for sure but they wouldnt just sit there and wait to die. If the turtles were quitters they wouldnt be alive to date

Somebody definately has a thing or two to learn regarding Ninpo philosophy.

That being said, "fighting" is not the only way of "helping". In any situation. Very basic ninja understanding.

Don would probly make a robot of some sort and try to fight with him toe to toe.

And with that, we are definately not referring to the TMNT of either Mirage or New Toon fame.

My guess is a more likely approach would be the TMNT ask the Utroms for help, and the Utroms use a transmat to plop Galactus on the opposite side of the galaxy.

Hey.... that'd actually make a pretty good story!!

[Ninja Turtl3 : RaphaeL]

i would post somthing but im afraid that heretic might make me look dumb...

noone the less somone posted earlier about how the turtles could beat hulk.. im almost positive hulk would rip them to shreds they couldnt even get in close enuff to make an attack and even if they did all hulk would have to do is smack them once in the head real hard or just applaud on your head and your toast there is no way turtles could beat him even with all there ninja skillz...

[Jester]

The TMNT could beat anyone.....depending on the circumstances....it's all a question of circumstances...with all the stealth in the world....u'd stillmhave a tough time sneaking up on spidey due to his spider sence....but with their speed the tmnt might be able to confuse it enought to strike. as it's been said before "beating' has multipule definitions...if u can nutrulize and escape, ala drop a building on juggy just to slow him down, u've "beaten" him. The TMNT are 15 year students of ninjetsu.....i think the four of them would give wolvie a run for his money....especially if he can't keep his head.it is true that leo would flee and raph would fight to his dieing breath but i think if they stoped logan and took off the other three tmnt could take raph with them, even if they have to do it kicking and screaming...."come back here i'm not finished with u!!!!" and the whole out power thing is also seen in the tmnt universe itself....loo at the tmnt vs. hun.....at first they tried to overpower him...found it futile and then went for a more intelegent approch. the tmnt could beat juggy....i'm thinkin...dress the same....in the comics this would not be nessicary....and cause him to destroy the parking garrage they've lueared him into....i'm just saying....

[KROW]

heretic fell for my rambling. Good debate, man. You have passed the test. I salute you.

[heretic888]

i would post somthing but im afraid that heretic might make me look dumb...

Who me??

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *sips the blood of virgin infants quietly*

noone the less somone posted earlier about how the turtles could beat hulk.. im almost positive hulk would rip them to shreds they couldnt even get in close enuff to make an attack and even if they did all hulk would have to do is smack them once in the head real hard or just applaud on your head and your toast there is no way turtles could beat him even with all there ninja skillz...

Absolutes like that are very dangerous to make in a world as unpredictable and transitory as our own. Given a particular situation, the TMNT could easily beat the Hulk. Also given a particular situation, the Hulk could easily beat the TMNT.

Which is what it all really boils down to.... the situation. It also depends on which Hulk we're talking about, which TMNT we're talking about, etc.

The TMNT could beat anyone.....depending on the circumstances....it's all a question of circumstances...

Exactly. This is a point I've been trying to emphasize: given the proper circumstances, any opponent --- no matter how fearsome --- can be defeated. This is the enduring, prevailing truth of ninjutsu.

with all the stealth in the world....u'd stillmhave a tough time sneaking up on spidey due to his spider sence....but with their speed the tmnt might be able to confuse it enought to strike. as it's been said before "beating' has multipule definitions...if u can nutrulize and escape, ala drop a building on juggy just to slow him down, u've "beaten" him.

Very true.

it is true that leo would flee and raph would fight to his dieing breath

No, its not. Raphael has retreated from battle several times before. He's not an idiot.

heretic fell for my rambling. Good debate, man. You have passed the test. I salute you.

Ummm...... ok. *salutes curiously*

Heh. Laterz.

[KROW]

No, really. Our bickering sparked some good conversation.
This is for you: \n/ \n/

[heretic888]

Heh. Good times.

it is true that leo would flee and raph would fight to his dieing breath

Where the shell does this come from!?! Hello people! It's been proven over and over that Leonardo is willing to die for the greater good. This can be said for the rest of the guys as well.
Heck, you want proof? How 'bout the episode (I think it was called "rougue in the house") when Leo was fighting Karai one on one and gave her the oppertunity to strike down on him to test where her position stands between the TMNT and the Shredder. It was a VERY risky and bold act on his part. I would add other such situations from the series as well as situations from the Mirage comics, but you know what? I'm just really irritated and tired of people screwing up the facts just to make their favorite turtle seem so big and bad. Take it how you want to take it.

Btw, just for the record, they would all fight bravily to the end or slip into the shadows to escape. It all depends on the situation. And like it was pointed out by Heretic888, Raphael isn't stupid. His temper gets the best of him, but he isn't stupid! He knows when to back off and run.

[KROW]

Ryo, I was the one who said that about Leo. But I didn't believe it at all. It was just a debate I was having with heretic. I know Leo is one of the most honorable warriors. Don't get frazzled.

Heh, I hope you didn't take it negativly... though I was being a bit harsh. Sorry.

It's just that, it comes up a bit too often, and always by Raphael fanboys.

It's obvious that Leo and Raph is in constant compatition between each other on who is the more powerful warrior. Based on facts, we know that Leo is the better warrior, but some of the Raphael fanboys here are in deep denial and post up such insulting posts that make Leo look like a coward where as Raph is some kind of UBER warrior in compartion.
Don't get me wrong. Raphael is a powerful warrior, and if he had his anger and rage in check, chances are he would be at Leo's level or at least almost there.

[Ninja Turtl3 : RaphaeL]

alot of people in here stick up for leo no matter how hard somone may make a point and im very stubborn so to me raph will always own leo
(to me) i know leo would prolly win in a fight i just like the fact that raph is a badass and he dont take **** from noone so yea he is g g g god like.

and heretic you scare me ok lets see you argue this god would own everyone (saying there is a god) he would own the turtles cant argue that can you? wait could donny build a machine that makes the devil come from hell and confront god and make them destroy eachother? if not haha!!! unarguable!!!

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Jester

The TMNT could beat anyone.....depending on the circumstances....it's all a question of circumstances...with all the stealth in the world....u'd stillmhave a tough time sneaking up on spidey due to his spider sence....but with their speed the tmnt might be able to confuse it enought to strike. as it's been said before "beating' has multipule definitions...if u can nutrulize and escape, ala drop a building on juggy just to slow him down, u've "beaten" him. The TMNT are 15 year students of ninjetsu.....i think the four of them would give wolvie a run for his money....especially if he can't keep his head.it is true that leo would flee and raph would fight to his dieing breath but i think if they stoped logan and took off the other three tmnt could take raph with them, even if they have to do it kicking and screaming...."come back here i'm not finished with u!!!!" and the whole out power thing is also seen in the tmnt universe itself....loo at the tmnt vs. hun.....at first they tried to overpower him...found it futile and then went for a more intelegent approch. the tmnt could beat juggy....i'm thinkin...dress the same....in the comics this would not be nessicary....and cause him to destroy the parking garrage they've lueared him into....i'm just saying....

If the turtles got a symbiote suit Spiderman wouldnt be able to sense them. He cant sense Vanom or Carnage.
I would be intrested in seeing the turtles take on a Alien(You know like from Aliens) or Spawn. I would love to see Spawn fight the turtles or team up with

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Jester

it is true that Leo would flee and Raph would fight to his dieing breath...

Hey I'm quoting myself....but just to clear up my point. Yes, I am a Raphie fan-boy but I also realize his faults. in the heat of battle where Leo's more level head would call for a stratigic retreat, Raphie may not stand down. I'm not calling Leo a coward, I just think that if Raph was inraged he may not walk from a fight even if Leo understands the odds are against them and orders the retreat.

[Lord Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

If the turtles got a symbiote suit Spiderman wouldnt be able to sense them. He cant sense Vanom or Carnage.
I would be intrested in seeing the turtles take on a Alien(You know like from Aliens) or Spawn. I would love to see Spawn fight the turtles or team up with

Aliens vrs. Predator vrs. Ninja Turtles. I would love to read that one!

[cqb101]

Originally Posted by Lord Nightwalker

Aliens vrs. Predator vrs. Ninja Turtles. I would love to read that one!

I believe there's a fanfiction about that somewhere.....

[heretic888]

It's obvious that Leo and Raph is in constant compatition between each other on who is the more powerful warrior. Based on facts, we know that Leo is the better warrior, but some of the Raphael fanboys here are in deep denial and post up such insulting posts that make Leo look like a coward where as Raph is some kind of UBER warrior in compartion.
Don't get me wrong. Raphael is a powerful warrior, and if he had his anger and rage in check, chances are he would be at Leo's level or at least almost there.

Ok, a few things:

1) There is no "constant competition" between Leo and Raph as to who is the "more powerful warrior" in the Mirage books. The only alluded such competition is between Mike and Raph (because they sparred frequently very early in the series), and Mike seemed to be the more competent of the two. The main conflict between Raph and Leo is due to Raph's recklessness, not any percieved "combat power".

2) Most "powerful warrior"?? Don't know what you mean here --- Raphael has the highest strength and endurance of the four. Thus, he is the most "powerful" by conventional standards.

3) If Raph had his anger in check, he'd be an entirely different type of character --- with different methodologies and approaches to combat.

and heretic you scare me ok lets see you argue this god would own everyone (saying there is a god) he would own the turtles cant argue that can you?

There is no God. Of course, there are no Ninja Turtles, either. So, I guess its all fair.

If the turtles got a symbiote suit Spiderman wouldnt be able to sense them.

There are also other ways to "mask" one's presence --- although, I'm not sure if the TMNT have ever done so in the books.

Hey I'm quoting myself....but just to clear up my point. Yes, I am a Raphie fan-boy but I also realize his faults. in the heat of battle where Leo's more level head would call for a stratigic retreat, Raphie may not stand down. I'm not calling Leo a coward, I just think that if Raph was inraged he may not walk from a fight even if Leo understands the odds are against them and orders the retreat.

Unfortunately for preconceptions such as this, Raph has retreated from battle. Several times. Again, he's not an idiot.

I believe there's a fanfiction about that somewhere.....

Yup. Its at Andrew Modeen's "Ninja Turtles Empire". It was a very good read, although based on the Image TMNT.

Laterz.