Official Justice League Movie

[sdp]

More people are coming out saying how they liked JL 2017. Now that it's not against the general consensus that "JL can only suck" some people are coming out saying they liked it. Figures. I just watched it and I think it's ok, a bit on the boring side but not the horrible mess people say it is. Granted a movie with superman, batman, flash shouldn't be "just ok" but that's not the point.
Clearly there's an "anti-DC" bias for whatever reason and if the Snyder version had been released in 2017, same as the current one it would've been reviewed worse than it currently is.

[Leo656]

I've seen people say that they liked the Whedon version, but it really has to be stressed that their standards are incredibly low. They only care about "humor" and bright colors. Those are the first things they bring up and the ones they hammer on the most. I saw one review of ZSJL that was overwhelmingly negative, in which the author practically gushed over Whedon's cut and blasted the Snyder version for being a "four-hour middle finger" to that movie. He praised the "efficiency" of the shorter running time and all the "competent storytelling"... like, WHAT? You mean the "competent storytelling" in Whedon's cut where Steppenwolf just magically absconds with the third Mother Box offscreen while the League are fighting Clark? Or how they just coincidentally find out where Steppenwolf's base is without putting more than two seconds of work or thought into it? "Competent storytelling"; Whedon's cut has plot holes you can fly a plane through, all in service to that "efficient" shorter run time.

Not to mention the lousy editing, continuity errors like Aquaman's constantly-shifting tattoos and Barry and Bruce's haircuts getting longer and shorter repeatedly within the same scene, the INCREDIBLY shameful CGI - they OPEN the Whedon cut with Superman's face trying to slide off his goddamn head - it's a mess. I mean, there are other problems with Whedon's. The score is lazy, the "humor" just doesn't work, the dialogue is nonsense, but hey, some people like that stuff. But if you leave ALL of that out and just focus on the technical side of things - the editing, plot holes, bad CGI and color-correction - it remains, objectively, a poorly-made piece of work. Stuff like the music and the bad jokes make it a worse movie, but even without that stuff it's just objectively not well-made.

I confess, some of the problems in Whedon's cut only came strongly to me upon repeat viewings. I do watch movies a lot more than most people tend to; a lot of people are "one and done" whereas I generally watch movies several times. So I can see someone who watched Whedon's cut once, had a few laughs and forgot about it, having a reasonably warm opinion of it. It definitely aims to be as saccharine and "safe" as most comic book movies aim to be.

But it is NOT a well-made film, or even competent. Even if a person really just doesn't like Zack's style, at least his movie is a MOVIE. There's no chainsaw-and-Scotch-tape editing or giant gaping plot holes that are only there because "We need to make a short movie and the rubes won't notice anyway". Take away everything subjective like "tone" and focus solely on the rest, and you can at least tell that ZSJL was made by people who care about the product they were making and wanted it to be the absolute best thing it could be, whereas Whedon's version was made by a committee of people who wanted to shotgun something out the door half-finished for a fast buck.

It's night-and-day. And I really can't be nice about it. Only really ignorant people with an ax to grind against Snyder would ever PREFER Whedon's cut. There's nothing to prefer, it's a patchwork quilt of nonsense, full of holes and made by people who didn't care. If you support THAT, then you're hopeless.

So much more goes into making a "good movie" than having candy-coated colors and "jokes" aimed at the lowest common denominator. If THAT and that alone is enough to make a person call a movie "good" when everything else about it is objectively poor, then you're just beyond all hope. That's not even an "opinion".

[CyberCubed]

One scene I wish they kept is the post-credit scene with Superman/Flash having their race. I liked that scene and made sense to keep but it wasn't. But ah well it's still on youtube.

Also I wish they kept Batman's, "Save one person" to Flash when they first see Steppenwolf and all the humans. "Save one person, and then save one more," was another good scene in the Whedon version I wish they kept around. Flash had never been in a real fight or anything dangerous up to that point, so I really liked that scene. Seeing Batman also mentor him was pretty great.

[AquaParade]

“Save one” was a good scene. Makes you think Whedon was actually trying, oddly enough.

The more I watch this, the more I like it. Actually feels like the movie that the Justice League deserve. I hope they don’t make us wait long for the physical release.

[Leo656]

That scene with Barry and Bruce was fine, but it was also a bit unnecessary in Snyder's cut since we'd already seen him rescue people (Iris) so we know that he already knows how to react in dangerous situations, and that helping people is part of his nature. Like yeah, it's different when there's giant bug-monsters shooting lasers at you, sure, but we've already seen that he knows how to be heroic and brave when he has to be, so the "mentoring" is no longer as necessary.

It was fine for what Whedon's cut required but it's extraneous in the Snyder version, since Barry's character is more established by that point and he's shown to not be quite such a spaz.

I've heard rumors of a disc release sometime around May 21 but I can't verify or confirm, it's just what I've heard.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I've heard rumors of a disc release sometime around May 21 but I can't verify or confirm, it's just what I've heard.

Probably B.S.. There'd already be pre-orders if it was that soon on the horizon.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind owning it in 4K blu-ray.

[Leo656]

My concern is as to whether or not it will also have a standard release.

Like they're advertising the new remastered BvS coming out in 4K but they haven't said as to whether or not it will be on regular Blu-ray or not.

I mean, probably, and I understand "always upsell". And in the case of ZSJL, they're not going to talk out loud about any kind of disc release until "enough" people bought HBO Max to watch it there, like how they waited to talk about the WW84 disc for the same reason. I get it, I just don't like all the secrecy.

But if WW84 gets released in both formats, which it is, and if the remastered BvS gets released in both formats, which it probably will, then ZSJL most likely will too. I'd just like to know. Because my TV works fine and while I'm sure 4K is lovely I'm not gonna bother upgrading so long as my TV works fine.

[AquaParade]

Well I can’t currently think of a 4K I’ve bought that didn’t also come with a blu ray disc. I’m sure they are out there hut it’s rare.

[Autbot_Benz]

Currently on Blu Ray.com France has a listing for ZSJL in 4k+ Blu Ray Blu Ray and DVD. so there is a chance we in the states will get this too but like Aqua says most 4k's come with the Blu Ray too.

Though the remaster of BVS looks like 4k and digital code only

[newfan]

Out of my depth among the hardcore DC fans so I'll just say that I enjoyed this. Had they originally planned to carry to a second movie before the released movie flopped?
I decided to re-watch Batman vs Superman (as I saw that once only) and now might as well carry on watching backwards and re-watch Man of Steel too

[Chris]

I believe the BvS remaster is to add the full screen IMAX parts (which were missing on the original release) and to fix the colour grading as it wasn't correct for the original 4K. That might be why there's only 4K listed for the remaster.

[sdp]

I'm glad imax is making the fullscreen 4:3 aspect ration a thing again, widescreen 16:9 is soulless.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Currently on Blu Ray.com France has a listing for ZSJL in 4k+ Blu Ray Blu Ray and DVD. so there is a chance we in the states will get this too but like Aqua says most 4k's come with the Blu Ray too.

Though the remaster of BVS looks like 4k and digital code only

For it being 4 hours. Its probably gonna be 2 disks or something. Can they fit 4 hours on a single 4K Bluray disk?

[Cure]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

For it being 4 hours. Its probably gonna be 2 disks or something. Can they fit 4 hours on a single 4K Bluray disk?

Nah. The Lord of the Rings extended editions are on two discs and they're about as long.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Cure

Nah. The Lord of the Rings extended editions are on two discs and they're about as long.

Its probably gonna be 2 4K disks, 2 bluray disks, and 2 DVDs.

These sets will probably come in 3 disks because the 3rd disc would be all the special features.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by newfan

Out of my depth among the hardcore DC fans so I'll just say that I enjoyed this. Had they originally planned to carry to a second movie before the released movie flopped?
I decided to re-watch Batman vs Superman (as I saw that once only) and now might as well carry on watching backwards and re-watch Man of Steel too

There were supposed to ultimately be three Justice League movies. There's a lot we know now from various things that have come out recently about what was roughly planned to have happened. Here's a very broad summary I managed to piece together from snippets of various sources, keeping in mind that some of this might have ended up being changed or slightly revised if the sequels ever happened (Joker originally wasn't going to be as heavily involved until he suddenly was, for example):

During the second one, the League was to try and take the fight to Darkseid on Apokolips before he could invade Earth, which turns out to be a bad idea. Bruce had Lois kept hidden in the Batcave to keep her safe, as "she is the key" to preventing the Knightmare Future, but it turns out that leaving Earth unprotected was a mistake. Lex, it turns out, made a pact with Darkseid to help bring him to Earth and forms the Legion of Doom with Riddler, Deathstroke, Dr. Poison, and others, to help facilitate that. Riddler solves "the ultimate riddle" - The Anti-Life Equation - and thus helps summon Darkseid, who makes it to Earth and murders Lois Lane in the Batcave. Superman and the others arrive too late, and Superman realizes that Lois and their unborn child are now dead; in his moment of ultimate despair, he succumbs to the Anti-Life Equation and becomes Darkseid's puppet - the "Dark Superman" we've seen in the Knightmare flash-forwards. Darkseid begins taking over the world; the League tries to stop him while Wonder Woman tries to hold Superman at bay; it is to no avail, as Superman kills Diana and Darkseid kills Aquaman and possibly other members of the League. Superman, no longer under Darkseid's control but still slave to the Anti-Life Equation, kills Darkseid and conquers Earth in his stead. The group we see at the end of "Zack Snyder's Justice League" are the last hope humanity has... but Batman Has A Plan.

JL3 would have been the undoing of the events of JL2 - Barry going back in time to stop the League from trying to make a pre-emptive strike against Apokolips, since that was the moment everything went wrong. But going back that far in time requires more power than Flash can manifest on his own, and so they need to find a Mother Box (turns out they weren't all completely destroyed), and Joker knows where it is. If Barry can go back in time and try to change things, they can prevent this Knightmare from happening once and for all. We know that in at least one timeline he tried this and failed, because as we saw in BvS he arrived "too soon" and thus Bruce wasn't able to fully understand the meaning of Barry's warning. Eventually, Barry does succeed and warns off Batman and the others from ever leaving Earth unprotected. The Legion of Doom still manages to summon Darkseid to Earth, but THIS time Batman takes the Omega blast meant for Lois Lane, saving her life and preventing the Knightmare Timeline once and for all (and ensuring that the entire third act of JL2 never happened, so obviously Wonder Woman and everyone who'd been killed at the end of that movie were now alive as before).

Inspired by Bruce's sacrifice, Superman and the League take the fight to Darkseid on Earth, with the help of many others. The Green Lantern Corps. finally make it to Earth to join the fight, the Atlanteans rise from the oceans and reveal themselves, the Amazons leave their hidden island to rejoin and help defend Man's World, and every military and Special Forces group on the planet unite to help the Justice League fight back against Darkseid. An epic battle would ensue which would parallel the one from ancient times that we saw in "Zack Snyder's Justice League", with Superman and the League taking the place of Zeus and the Old Gods. Superman finally conquers Darkseid, and in so doing fulfills the destiny foretold of him in "Man of Steel" - his emergence was a beacon, which drew out other protectors such as the members of the League, so that when the time came they would unite the entire world, stop Darkseid, and bring about the foretold New Age of Heroes.

There was going to be other stuff, too, but those are the broad strokes of the actual plot. Basically, the entire arc was going to be a streamlined and condensed version of the "Final Crisis" plotline - Darkseid Wins, until he doesn't - with elements of "Injustice" mixed in (Lois and her unborn child being killed, which drives Superman to madness). I feel like it would have worked well, and especially the addition of the Anti-Life Equation fixes a crucial problem I've always had with Injustice, that being the idea that Lois's death in and of itself would be enough to turn Superman evil. I've never entirely bought into the premise - I do love the games, though - but the idea that in that very moment Darkseid would use the Equation to enthrall Superman... THAT works. I like the idea that he retains SOME semblance of self - he still kills Darkseid as revenge for killing Lois - but that he remains completely lost and dominated by the Equation anyway.

I mean I know some people plain and simply push back hard against the whole "Dark Superman" thing, but if he's slave to the Equation then it's not even "really" him doing this stuff, for one thing, AND it serves an essential point in showing the audience just how dangerous the Equation is - even Superman isn't immune. That's why ALL of these plot points and foreshadowing and the latter part of JL2 with the world finally being enslaved were ultimately going to be necessary. You have to sell the stakes. It can't just be words like "Ohhh, bad stuff coming" and "Anti-Life" and blah blah. You need to SHOW how bad it is, to really make it that much more heroic when they finally prevent it and stop Darkseid once and for all.

I feel like knowing where JL2 and JL3 were going, really helps put everything from MoS and BvS into its proper context. More BvS, obviously, because when they made MoS nothing past that had been planned. But by the time they made BvS, they absolutely knew where they were going with the story, and now we see how a lot of things people didn't like or swore "didn't make sense" were all in service to the larger story they were building, and would have paid huge dividends by the end of it all.

Here are a few more elements that would have come into play, including some neat details about Atlantis, the Amazons, and plans for Affleck's "The Batman":
https://screenrant.com/dceu-zack-sny...board-details/

Obviously, ALL of this is up in the air now and probably not happening. But it does show that once and for all, they DID have a Master Plan for everything and it only got turned upside-down when people got impatient and refused to let things play out as intended.

For my money, that's an awesome story, and especially after seeing ZSJL I'm very angry that it was aborted. But we'll see.

[newfan]

Thanks for that Leo, we could see they were laying the ground there for this dark future but I didn't know much about it. I get why people would push against dark Superman, I didn't like that he was dead (and had to have his grave dug up) or the prospect of him destroying everything but I had wondered if something like you just described would happen. It's turned back so they get to explore this without permanent damage to Superman or others being killed permanently. I also like that there would have been more to it than just Lois dying, that of course would have weakened his fight/resistance. It's a shame it's now kinda left open, I'd have been down for more but I'm but glad we got to see this. With the Flash movie still to come from this verse I feel it a shame they moved on already.

[Turo602]

Watched it last night and holy sh*t. What a film. Literally everything about this movie was superior to the theatrical release which was enjoyable by Saturday morning cartoon standards. Even in all its Frankensteined mess, you could still tell they had assembled a great cast with chemistry because the action alone and the characters ultimately salvaged an otherwise generic and "safe" film and yet, it's done infinitely better here.

Characters actually have motives and backgrounds, action is paced incredibly well and hits so much harder here with proper build up, a stronger score, and much cleaner choreography. It's just a much richer, consistent, visually stunning, and overall better film. I honestly question why they reshot a goddamn thing. They could have chopped it down to just a bare bones version of what it is and still had a better product than the theatrical release.

Not one thing from any of the reshoots stands out as better or necessary than what was already shot that it just confirms how overreactionary WB was for getting Joss Whedon involved at all. Regardless, the 4 hour run time was definitely a necessity and I'm glad Zack Snyder didn't back down from that because Warner Bros. is foolish to want to rush a Justice League together after 1 solo Superman film, a solo Wonder Woman film, and a vs movie that introduced Batman.

It's a testament to Zack Snyder's ability that he managed to handle such strict guidelines as well as he did and even give us something as interconnected and coherent with his 3 films and still come out on top with a satisfying ensemble film with characters you care about and want to see more of.

Cyborg, Aquaman, and The Flash are by far the most improved characters in Zack Snyder's Justice League over the theatrical release. Aquaman went from comedic relief to a genuine hero with a genuine conflict, but most of all, he acted like someone who could one day be a king. The way he went from distrusting Cyborg for possibly working with the bad guys to real concern for his well being made him feel more human than he ever did.

The Flash's introduction I found to be a little weak. I don't think it was ever established who Iris is and whether he knew her or not, so the whole scene where he saves her felt a bit much for what was ultimately a meaningless rescue scene, unless we were already meant to have had a follow up on that scene in the constantly delayed Flash movie with Iris being a journalist who writes about the speedster who saved her which could be a way to connect the 2 characters, but as it stands here, it feels really weird and out of place.

Barry's interactions with his father on the other hand really brought much needed character to what is essentially just comic relief, especially during the epic payoff when he turns back time and has that inner monologue about himself and his father. You really feel like what he's going through is very personal which was much needed depth that they have failed to explore thus far.

Cyborg on the other hand was really given the short end of the stick in the theatrical release. He's so much more prominent and integral to the narrative and undergoes the biggest character development in the film. He really is the heart of the movie because his story is by far the most emotional and oddly enough, I thought he looked better here than he did in the theatrical release. I remember him looking really skinny and I didn't really see that too much here.

Wonder Woman was much more consistent with her prior outings here than she is in WW84 and thank f*ck because she was a complete badass. Batman, while an improvement from the theatrical cut, was still very much playing the same role and in all honesty, felt like a step back from how menacing he was in BvS. I get the nature of the story pretty much strips him away from his element, but we barely spent anytime with the other Batman that his role here does feel like a step back.

Superman's return felt so much more earned and impactful. Music really makes a world of difference and having the Man of Steel theme play along with his fathers' voice overs was so much more worth it than trying to shoehorn in the classic John Williams Superman theme. My only gripes in regards to Superman is something that actually bothered me about Whedon's version. Wasn't Superman like not dead at the end of BvS? The dirt on his grave moved like it does when he's about to fly and yet he's actually dead and needs to be resurrected? WTF? The black suit is also really out of place. It's never explained it's a healing suit, and the cape always bothered me because it's not even part of the healing suit. It's literally just a black Superman suit for absolutely no reason and I could have done without it.

The biggest redemption for me though are definitely the villains. Steppenwolf is so much more intimidating with his vastly superior design and booming voice, yet they still managed to humanize him and give him a proper motivation. Darkseid, for what little we saw of him makes Thanos look friendly by comparison. He's f*cking ruthless and he looks amazing. They have to continue this, they just have to or they're f*cking idiots.

Jared Leto's Joker was even redeemed here. It's not the best performance, but it's an interpretation I can live with in this grander universe that ultimately isn't fixated on Joker. It's a definite improvement over Suicide Squad though, that's for f*cking sure. And his chemistry with Ben Affleck's Batman was spot on. It was so satisfying seeing Batman react to Joker the way he did here because it felt so much more real and personal than it ever has on film.

This was just such a genuinely good movie. Snyder's films can be really divisive, and for as much as I genuinely like Man of Steel, I think between this and Watchmen, big ensemble pieces are more Snyder's forte because he does them better than most. I would definitely love to see him take a crack at X-Men, but more than anything else, I want to see his vision realized because Zack Snyder's Justice League was just simply incredible. F*ck Warner Bros.

[CyberCubed]

Batman being calmed down makes sense. He went down a dark path prior to B v. S with him stamping criminals and branding them, and here he is much more relaxed and realized the error of his ways. If anything his development in the movie retroactively makes his role in B vs. S make a lot more sense, and now you can see his development.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Batman being calmed down makes sense. He went down a dark path prior to B v. S with him stamping criminals and branding them, and here he is much more relaxed and realized the error of his ways. If anything his development in the movie retroactively makes his role in B vs. S make a lot more sense, and now you can see his development.

I get that, but I feel like it made him less of a standout here. Naturally, he's gonna be the weakest character in the League and it's just so jarring seeing him kick so much ass in BvS like a total beast, to playing a subdued leader and getting thrown around a lot.