To Anyone Who Likes Venus: Why?

[ryukenden]

I'm not fond of Venus but I do believe she could have worked. Venus wasn't the problem, it was the show's execution. The show just went out of their way to make Venus look good while making the main Turtles look bad. I could write an entire article of when Venus took care of something herself in which the established Turtles could have, would have and should have charged in and helped out. But no! They either stand in the background cheering on or Venus took care of the problem before they even do anything. Even without Venus, the show would have still been awful.

Had the Turtles acted like we would expect them to act as we have seen in the OT and the Movies, the show would have been much better. The Five-Man Band aspect would have worked really well.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'm by no means a Venus fan, and thinking of her does give me bad memories of Next Mutation - but I'd totally be open to seeing her re-interpreted in a new incarnation someday, something that would finally make her a likeable character perhaps. So I guess I'm middle ground, I don't hate her, but I'm by no means calling for her return either.

And on the Donnie/April thing mentioned in the first post, I don't like that pairing simply because it adds romance to a predominantly action/comedy series (though that is kind of a nice addition), I like it because the way they're handling it in the show is absolutely adorable.

[gobo]

I happen to think Venus was the only character in that series I could tolerate. Probably because she wasn't an over-the-top charicature.

[Pterobat]

I guess nobody likes Venus, including me....

But I'm fine with that. Even though any idea in fiction can be made palatable, the Turtles have had the same or very similar four-brothers dynamic in all media and all forms, so it would take one hell of a writer to pull off the changed dynamic that a new Turtle would bring, whether the new Turtle was male or female.

It's not about being hidebound to "tradition" so much as there's this "closed" dynamic of the four Turtles and how they interact with each other that it'd be hard to bring a new Turtle in and have everything go smoothly. TNM just wasn't up to snuff.

Also, I agree with Peter Laird, who seemed just as annoyed that a fifth Turtle was added as the fact that they were female:

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....as-aliens.html

I think some people make too big a deal over Venus being female, because they're attached to the melancholy notion of the Turtles as a reproductive "dead end", that was embodied in the original "Sons of the Silent Age" comic story. But it's just as awful that the writers can't think of any more creative role for a new character than "another Turtle".

A fifth male Turtle would be just as redundant, and even if he were a Laird creation like Kirby, it would still take some hard work to pull off.

If Venus had not been a "Fifth Turtle" but a new ally character of a different species, she might have gone over better. I don't believe in the notion of "female just for the sake of being female", since women are half the population and representing them in fiction shouldn't need "a reason" any more than having male characters would be. I'd like to see more female characters in the franchise, and more female mutants, but it has to be more creative than just adding a female Ninja Turtle.

Besides that, I haven't watched TNM since it aired, but Venus was annoying because her comic role was supposed to be the "dumb foreigner" who can't grasp another culture and keeps making the same dopey language mistakes. That kind of character is very hard to make likable, and I just found her annoying.

That her naming scheme didn't match the other Turtles stood out to me, too.

Also, she had turtle boobs. Which are creepy. I give this design a pass when it's human characters who have become non-mammals, but Venus as a full-blown reptile with turtle cleavage is disturbing.

[snake]

Never was a fan of Venus, and I can't see how people are, a female turtle CAN be done right ( I think) but Venus is an example of how NOT to do it. I think if she was done right, she would be a tolerable character, but for now, I hate her

[cryan]

I liked Mona Lisa more then the Venus character.

[ZariusTwo]

Venus just felt like the result of a focus group more than a truley creative aspect of the mythos.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Ha. A very good point. Most people can't stomach more than the introductory 5 parter and use it to judge the whole series.

Guilty as charged.

However, so is Saban. A good first impression is very, very important, and it places the burden of proof squarely on the creators rather than the viewers. If they improved Venus from the pilot, well, good for them I guess, but their introduction of Venus was so incredibly bad that Occam's Razor didn't point that way.

[RaphAndDonnie]

Originally Posted by Pterobat

Besides that, I haven't watched TNM since it aired, but Venus was annoying because her comic role was supposed to be the "dumb foreigner" who can't grasp another culture and keeps making the same dopey language mistakes. That kind of character is very hard to make likable, and I just found her annoying.

Agreed with this. I was watching an episode of TNM last week, and one of the
bits was Venus not getting the correct name for a bowling strike. Sure it made me chuckle the first time...but I was sick of it by the time she kept doing it when they went into combat. Also...the Asain accent. It was just so high pitched and whiny to me, ugh.

[Candy Kappa]

The idea of a female turtle is interesting, it adds something new to the status quo.

Venus, as the rest of the show was just badly handled, from mis-knowing the word Shinobi to being a straight up Mary Sue.

It's the concept that is appealing, not the character.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

I like Venus, in my turtle world she is very much still part of it, i have to agree with what most has been said Venus wasnt the down fall of next mutation it was bad writing..past the first story arc it just gets dull and overly slap stick.

i am open to a fith turtle and a girl turtle, what irked me most was the breaking of the brotherhood

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I have mixed feelings on Venus. On one hand. It was stupid to have a fifith female turtle, who was there at the time of the origin, who has 'supah mystical Shinobi powers', who beat all four of the other turtles at once, in five seconds, in the dark, off camera... and went on to be the mary sue-er, amin focus of the series.

On the other hand, I don't mind the idea of a fifth female mutant/anthro character hanging around the guys all the time, and going on most of thier adventures. Ninjara was awesome in the archie series, and I would've loved it if Mona Lisa had become an every episode mainstay in the OT, maybe taking up Mikey's grappling hook as a weapo, so he could get his nunchucks back, or at least weild a tonfa. The point why those two work is that they are not, turtles, and not created at the same accident the turtles were.

Although one thing I gotta ask, Mondo Gecko in the ot basically had the same origin as venus (Mutated at the same time as the TMNT, by the same accident with the same ooze) why don't people hate him?

[plasticturtle]

Probably because Mondo wasn't shoehorned into every single episode that aired after his introduction. If Venus had just made random guest appearances every once in awhile maybe she'd be more tolerable.

[ryukenden]

I don't understand why she had to prove her superiority by defeating and humiliating the Turtles when she first stepped into the lair. What they could have done was the Turtles detecting the intruder and rush to the entrance weapons drawn as Venus formally introduces herself. If she did go for the aggressive approach, the Turtles ought to be distrustful and not let themselves get hanged there like idiots.

[Konchadunga]

I hear a lot that a female turtle isn't an inherently stupid idea, but the question is, would it add anything that a smarter, tougher April couldn't? That's a better solution to have a feminist angle, in my opinion, because then that angle doesn't monopolize the plot; April is a surface-dweller.

[Nameless]

I actually liked The next mutation, mind you not as much as the original cartoon. The biggest thing that bugged me, which others have said, is the fact that the turtles are no longer brothers.

Venus as an added character was alright but she needed to have a different personality. To me she always felt like another Splinter. A thing that kinda of took away from Leonardos character as he is the one that quotes splinter and sticks to splinters teachings to a letter.

I dunno i feel the show had great potential, but missed the great mark largely due to the Venus but also for a lot of different little things. the funniest thing is that the best fight scene of the series is in the crossover episode with the power rangers.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

I hear a lot that a female turtle isn't an inherently stupid idea, but the question is, would it add anything that a smarter, tougher April couldn't? That's a better solution to have a feminist angle, in my opinion, because then that angle doesn't monopolize the plot; April is a surface-dweller.

While I do agree that a female turtle is a bad idea, I don't think a female mutant/anthro is. Ninjara and Mona Lisa were both amazing characters, and I'd have no problem seeing ethier becoming a permanent addition to the TMNT's team in the 5th turtle role. Heck Ninjara was almost that anyway in Archie. April can be built up too, but I'd also love see one of these two become a main character.

[ssjup81]

I liked her because of the magical aspect. I also liked that she was a girl. I didn't know her character was so disliked until coming here.

[Konchadunga]

Cody Jones is disliked for a lot of the same reason as Venus; that is, he became the center of the plot, so I'm not sure if Venus or a similar character would go over well, even if written better. Still, if a show gets to the point where all of the plots involving the existing character dynamic seem exhausted, then maybe it's not a bad idea.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Hey there, im new to this site and i'm a HUGE fan of TMNT, however i cannot stand Venus De Milo or the next mutation, so i was surprised finding out that this character gas a fanbase that will defend her. WHY? what is there to defend about her?

1. She has no redeemable character traits whatsoever

2.She was tacked on the show in order to appease whiny feminists

3. She constantly had the REAL turtles depend on her to win their battles
Does that sound like a defendable character? You tell me