Are There Any Popular Comic Stories That You Dislike?

[MikeandRaph87]

I am a collector of comics particularly of DC Comics and Batman. However, I do not understand why Batman: The Dark Knight Returns is so popular. I forced myself through it and found it to be a boring Elseworlds with an oddly drawn older Batman acting out of character in a dystopian alternate future. It was not for me, simply as that. The tone, the art, the story. None of it was interesting. The only thing Frank Miller wrote that I could get into was Batman: Year One printed in Batman#404-#407, however its good not great. I will never understand how Barbara Gordon was actually forgotten, but Commissioner Gordon's son was renamed and remembered in Year One. Everything afterward Year One is criticized and rightfully so, but I just cannot find anything appealing about The Dark Knight Returns(1986). I doubt I am the lone person who passes on The Dark Knight Returns, but I know I am in a huge minority. Its likely because my taste and preferences are Silver and Bronze Age material and Batman: TAS which largely draws from those periods. What popular storyline or comic do you not care for and why?

[Leo656]

I think you initially confused "Dark Knight Returns" with "The Dark Knight Strikes Again" (or DK2 as it's sometimes called). You initially mention "Strikes Again" but I think you meant "Returns" by the way you worded it, as well as how you mentioned "Returns" at the end.

For one thing, "Strikes Again" has almost no defenders and is pretty unanimously derided as garbage, whereas "Returns" has its moments and I can see why some people like it.

Frankly, I grew up reading about how brilliant "The Dark Knight Returns" was, and when I finally bought the collected edition and read it, I was completely underwhelmed, especially by the lousy artwork. There are small bits of it that I think have merit. Bruce Wayne being so completely driven and obsessive that he simply can't ever retire to live a normal life because that would mean willfully ignoring crimes and other tragedies he could have prevented... that feels real, to me. The same irrational obsession that led him to become Batman in the first place - let's remember, he didn't just put on a costume and take some boxing lessons, he devoted over a decade of his life towards eventually becoming Batman to the point of ignoring everything else, which goes WAY beyond "obsession" - would never realistically let him stop. That's the only way the character makes sense, to me.

But pretty much everything else about Dark Knight Returns feels forced and like it's "shock value for shock value's sake". Joker having a gay crush on Batman. Superman being a government stooge. Selina Kyle being a fat, worn-out old hooker. Lana Lang being a fat, bitter old nag. All of it just reads like it was done for no reason other than to "subvert expectations". I've never understood why it's so incredibly overrated, it's honestly not great outside of the general tone of the piece. And even then, people who give Miller all of the credit for being "dark" with Batman obviously missed the stuff Denny O'Neil, Steve Englehart and others had been doing since the 1970s to get Batman and his villains to be more serious again. All the hard work had already been done, all Miller did was dial it up to 11 by being as off-putting as possible.

And the less said about the sequel, the better. DK2 is easily one of the worst comics ever put to print.

I have plenty of my own entries but I'm kinda busy right now so I'll come back later.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I think you initially confused "Dark Knight Returns" with "The Dark Knight Strikes Again" (or DK2 as it's sometimes called). You initially mention "Strikes Again" but I think you meant "Returns" by the way you worded it, as well as how you mentioned "Returns" at the end.

For one thing, "Strikes Again" has almost no defenders and is pretty unanimously derided as garbage, whereas "Returns" has its moments and I can see why some people like it.

Frankly, I grew up reading about how brilliant "The Dark Knight Returns" was, and when I finally bought the collected edition and read it, I was completely underwhelmed, especially by the lousy artwork. There are small bits of it that I think have merit. Bruce Wayne being so completely driven and obsessive that he simply can't ever retire to live a normal life because that would mean willfully ignoring crimes and other tragedies he could have prevented... that feels real, to me. The same irrational obsession that led him to become Batman in the first place - let's remember, he didn't just put on a costume and take some boxing lessons, he devoted over a decade of his life towards eventually becoming Batman to the point of ignoring everything else, which goes WAY beyond "obsession" - would never realistically let him stop. That's the only way the character makes sense, to me.

But pretty much everything else about Dark Knight Returns feels forced and like it's "shock value for shock value's sake". Joker having a gay crush on Batman. Superman being a government stooge. Selina Kyle being a fat, worn-out old hooker. Lana Lang being a fat, bitter old nag. All of it just reads like it was done for no reason other than to "subvert expectations". I've never understood why it's so incredibly overrated, it's honestly not great outside of the general tone of the piece. And even then, people who give Miller all of the credit for being "dark" with Batman obviously missed the stuff Denny O'Neil, Steve Englehart and others had been doing since the 1970s to get Batman and his villains to be more serious again. All the hard work had already been done, all Miller did was dial it up to 11 by being as off-putting as possible.

And the less said about the sequel, the better. DK2 is easily one of the worst comics ever put to print.

I have plenty of my own entries but I'm kinda busy right now so I'll come back later.

You see my taste is O'Neil/Englehart/Wein. Mature but not overly dark, the porridge is just right if you will. I am a 90s' kid so I did not grow up with it, but I grew up with its influences and overall its what I prefer. To see The Dark Knight Returns heralded as a game changer and one of the greatest stories of all-time I just don't understand why. Sure there is a gradual progression, but it was not sudden in that one story and I cannot find anything in it for me to love. I mean, I don't hate it, its just boring and unappealing.

[neatoman]

I don't know about popular exactly but I don't think Lee's run on the Hulk is very good, like at all. It's a wonder to me how this character ended up being one of Marvel's most enduring ones with a start like that.

[Leo656]

I've never been of the opinion that Grant Morrison's "All-Star Superman" was anywhere near as good as people swear it is. Absolutely not "the best Superman story ever" as some people insist.

It has heart, sure, but it takes every single thing I and other people hate about the goofy, silly and dumb Silver Age Superman stories and dials it way the f*ck up because that's what Grant grew up loving. "My" Superman was the post-1986 version of Byrne and Jurgens, which Grant openly hates. I like his Superman when he's part of an ensemble cast, like Grant's JLA run or in Final Crisis, where he's mostly there to be Powerful and Iconic, but I do not like his dedicated Superman arcs because they lean way too hard on the Silver Age Goofy Sh*t that I abhor.

Like, I am a huge Superman fan. But I really can't stress enough how much I hate almost every story before 1986 except for, like, five of them. When people say they hate the character, I don't like that but I get why, because for 50 years the stuff was nothing but Kiddie Crap and if you want to find evidence for "Superman Sucks", there's a ton of it before Byrne showed up and fixed everything.

I've noticed that almost every person who says "All Star Superman" is "the best Superman story they've ever read", if you ask them what others they've read or own there's hardly anything. People who don't "get" Superman, or like the character when the stories are goofy nonsense, they love it. I don't know if I'd say I "hate" it but it's definitely not for me.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I've never been of the opinion that Grant Morrison's "All-Star Superman" was anywhere near as good as people swear it is. Absolutely not "the best Superman story ever" as some people insist.

It has heart, sure, but it takes every single thing I and other people hate about the goofy, silly and dumb Silver Age Superman stories and dials it way the f*ck up because that's what Grant grew up loving. "My" Superman was the post-1986 version of Byrne and Jurgens, which Grant openly hates. I like his Superman when he's part of an ensemble cast, like Grant's JLA run or in Final Crisis, where he's mostly there to be Powerful and Iconic, but I do not like his dedicated Superman arcs because they lean way too hard on the Silver Age Goofy Sh*t that I abhor.

Like, I am a huge Superman fan. But I really can't stress enough how much I hate almost every story before 1986 except for, like, five of them. When people say they hate the character, I don't like that but I get why, because for 50 years the stuff was nothing but Kiddie Crap and if you want to find evidence for "Superman Sucks", there's a ton of it before Byrne showed up and fixed everything.

I've noticed that almost every person who says "All Star Superman" is "the best Superman story they've ever read", if you ask them what others they've read or own there's hardly anything. People who don't "get" Superman, or like the character when the stories are goofy nonsense, they love it. I don't know if I'd say I "hate" it but it's definitely not for me.

It's probably a preference of a certain tone which is the same place from where my dislike for The Dark Knight Returns and my confusion for it being the greatest Batman story, greatest mini-series, greatest overall story, I just don't get it. It's too focused on being gritty and I don't care for the story or the art.

I posted before that I only care for Superman in a team book. I do recognize him as the GOAT of his genre no matter what, its just a preference thing. I don't believe you care for the two Action Comic stories that I have from pre-crisis either, Action #443 (JLA vs SSoSV) and #444(Hal Jordan vs Sinestro), and #544-546 end of Lexor and Brainiac's first makeover. What are those five Superman stories that are to your liking? I might go to readcomiconline and give it a read.

Also, I was still in high school when it came out, All-Star Batman and Robin. I had just decided The Dark Knight Returns was way overrated and I put down The Dark Knight Strikes Again part of the way through enraged at a Barnes & Noble book store. I thought All-Star could be Frank Miller apologizing to me for mistreating Dick Grayson and the Batman lore. Man, was I naïve! People seemed to agree with me there and the outrageously dark unintended parody of All-Star Batman and Robin allowed its fellow comic All-Star Superman to gain glory and attract the positive attention that it may not have gotten had Frank Miller not gone off the rails. If only in some alternate reality Jeph Loeb was not too busy overseeing Smallville and could have wrote the 12 issues maxi-series...maybe All-Star Superman would not be as lauded while All-Star Batman and Robin would have been an above average tale.

[neatoman]

Not really a dislike either but I can't take any comic featuring Knull, the Venom villain introduced in 2018, seriously because I find the name hilarious.

Knull is a Swedish word that translates perfectly into Fuck. As in it's a perfect translation, it's literally profanity referring to sexual acts. When the first issue featuring him came out I showed it to the clerks of my local comic book shop, they laughed their asses off as well.

[ZariusTwo]

People rave about Superior Spider-Man all the time, but I found it a truly wretched piece of storytelling that made everyone in Peter's superhero and social circle look like idiots. I also have no time for people who insist Otto makes for a better Peter Parker than Peter himself.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

People rave about Superior Spider-Man all the time, but I found it a truly wretched piece of storytelling that made everyone in Peter's superhero and social circle look like idiots. I also have no time for people who insist Otto makes for a better Peter Parker than Peter himself.

I enjoyed it and its one of only a few Spider-Man runs that I have in actual comic book form, but I can understand people not being a fan of it. There was one thing that bothered me within the series however that seems to have gone under the radar. Otto fell in love with Ana Maria Maroni when posing as Peter Parker. He had sex with her which is a violation of both Ana and Peter, he is in a sci-fi way raping Peter and while he is duping Ana raping her. I am surprised it has not really been brought up. I am personally creeped out about it. Also, I was surprised at how Ana shrugged it off when she learned the truth.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I enjoyed it and its one of only a few Spider-Man runs that I have in actual comic book form, but I can understand people not being a fan of it. There was one thing that bothered me within the series however that seems to have gone under the radar. Otto fell in love with Ana Maria Maroni when posing as Peter Parker. He had sex with her which is a violation of both Ana and Peter, he is in a sci-fi way raping Peter and while he is duping Ana raping her. I am surprised it has not really been brought up. I am personally creeped out about it. Also, I was surprised at how Ana shrugged it off when she learned the truth.

Yeah, it's kinda weird, but whenever body-switch stuff happens and sex happens, people rarely dwell into the implications that 'technically speaking it's rape'.

I remember there was way more of an outcry for Doc Ock as Spidey trying to get with MJ, and when that didn't work, he pretty much got off to the memories of all the times Pete has slept with her.

So there was more outcry about him basically reliving memories than they were with him actually getting with Ana Maria.

And yeah, like... she should have had more of a reaction when she found out.

[Andrew NDB]

All of the Batman TMNT crossover stories. Ghastly written. Great characters, infantiley written. Angering to think about, really.

The "Metal" Batman stuff. The New 52. Flashpoint. Anything by Geoff Johns after Sinestro Corps War, including about the last half of that story.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

All of the Batman TMNT crossover stories. Ghastly written. Great characters, infantiley written. Angering to think about, really.

Even the first one? IDK... I kinda found the concept of them risking demutation because Mutagen didn't exist in the DCU to be interesting.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Even the first one? IDK... I kinda found the concept of them risking demutation because Mutagen didn't exist in the DCU to be interesting.

Yes. Forget about character choices or this or that, purely on a prose level... that Tynion guy writes like I wrote in the 3rd grade, maybe the 2nd. It's upsetting to even think that he is given this kind of platform at this level as such.

Like, cherry pick any page. Just awful. Horrible scripting.

[MikeandRaph87]

Donatello is out of character for the sake of the story and the story is not really put together well. The third one melding characters and having Krang work with The Anti-Monitor made little sense. The first one was great and so was the animated crossover. Admittingly it made more sense for it to be the '87 Turtles opposed to the '12 ones, but seeing Robin, Batgirl, and the original animated series designs was great.


Tyion is overrated. I didn't even notice him when he was on Detective Comics, but then starting making all these new characters, enough to make one's head spin in Batman. I accept that it doesn't matter who writes the main Batman title it is going to sell well because it is the main title of the company's best selling character.

[Autbot_Benz]

Fraction and AJA's Hawkeye The one that introduces Kate Bishop to the Comics. Everyone anywhere I see on the net praises this run saying its one of if not the best Hawkeye you could read. I bought the recently released Omnibus I thought this run was really really boring.

The only decent issues was issue 3 The Annual comic and the last remaining stories. Not a lot of continuity until the back half of the book. just a lot of self contained stories.

Kate is fine I like her in the comics . Kingpin does nothing in this book he is in it like twice that's it. The Tracksuit guys get annoying with how many times they say Bro in the book. Clint is alright just mainly him being an APT manager defending his tenants from the tracksuit guys and dealing and becoming deaf. Its more a clint story and less about him being hawkeye.