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Old 11-22-2015, 12:02 AM   #21
Leo656
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Yeah man. Like there's change for change's sake, and there's change to streamline the story or make it more accessible, and if it serves the story, then that's okay. You can twist things a little bit to take advantage of the differences between the adaptation and the source material. As long as it fits the story being told and isn't arbitrary.

I hadn't seen the comics yet, so in my head I still generally see that scenario as a "Raphael Scenario" rather than a Leo one. When I found out that in the comics the whole thing actually happened to Leo, I thought that was neat, but I immediately understood why it was different for the movie and was totally okay with it. Leo's my favorite character, it's a great scene with him in it, and if he was the central focus of the movie then it would have been awesome to see, really powerful stuff, but the fact is it was Raphael's movie so having him take the hit simply made more sense for that story. If Mike or Donnie had somehow been the focus of the movie, I expect it would have been the same thing as well. I always wanted to see Leo be the focus of the movie, or A movie, but I made peace with that a long time ago. I mean there was 2K7 but that wasn't all that great. The fact he got a lot of play was like the best thing about it, and some people don't even like the way that was handled, so I kind of don't count it.

Maybe with the next reboot, it'll be a little more like the comics or 2K3 and Leo will be more of a central character, and maybe they'll finally do a similar scene with him in place of Raph. As for the original film, it was a justifiable change under the circumstances.
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Old 11-22-2015, 12:15 AM   #22
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I feel like it would've played great as a Leo sequence in a sequel. Put the characters through their paces in the first one, establish why Leo is the leader... and then have him beaten nearly to death in part two and have things spiral out from there. Same as the comics, 2003 and 2012 series did, but as the typical "middle movie" dark period of a trilogy, that'd work amazingly well.

Zero complaints about the transfer to Raph in the 1990 movie, though! Because it made a lot of sense for that story and it worked really well.
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Old 11-22-2015, 02:23 PM   #23
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It could've been worse. At the time the first movie came out, Mikey was the one all the kids were nuts over. We could have had HIM be the "starring Turtle" of the film and they'd have every excuse to do so, since his jokes and catchphrases were about 7/10s what kids watched the show for in the first place.

Original Film Series Mikey is my favorite Mikey by far, but... yeah, that would've been awful.

Frankly, as the Team Leader, Leonardo should by default be the main character to get focused on, but little kids don't like the whole "Big Brother" thing so I understand why he always has to play second-fiddle to "The Rage" and "The Nitwit", since those are just the right kind of one-note archetypes that kids and teens relate to. And cartoons and movies can't have "characters", especially in a team scenario. Everyone has to have "A Role". Leo's not flawed enough to focus on, so his "role" is to be "boring", by way of actually having his sh*t together and helping everyone get things done, and since that's not "colorful" or "exciting" enough he mostly "leads" from just off to the side of the screen.

Pisses me off but whattyagonnado.
of all the thoughts i have on them switching Leo for Raph, but i just got this awful thought of them having lovable goofy Mikey all by himself get cornered by the Foot clan, beaten nearly to death and then tossed through April's window!!!
it's absolutely horrible!!! but kinda funny in way? xD
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Old 12-05-2015, 02:48 PM   #24
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Unhappy

Slightly off topic but does anyone know what the deal is with the unproduced R-rated movie before the 1990 original came out? I heard about it on ToonedUp 107 TMNT facts video. I tried looking it up but can't find much other than the same small quote on various sites about there being an unproduced R-rated movie with the turtles fighting semi-nude nuns on rollerskates. Any insight on this? Im seriously confused and curious as to what the heck this was.
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Old 12-05-2015, 05:42 PM   #25
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Slightly off topic but does anyone know what the deal is with the unproduced R-rated movie before the 1990 original came out? I heard about it on ToonedUp 107 TMNT facts video. I tried looking it up but can't find much other than the same small quote on various sites about there being an unproduced R-rated movie with the turtles fighting semi-nude nuns on rollerskates. Any insight on this? Im seriously confused and curious as to what the heck this was.
It hasn't been mentioned in many interviews. New World Pictures (post-Roger Corman) approached Eastman and Laird with a short treatment for a more schlocky adaptation. I believe this was the one that was pitched as having then-current comedians in costumes and face paint. The nuns also had uzis.
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Old 12-05-2015, 10:04 PM   #26
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It hasn't been mentioned in many interviews. New World Pictures (post-Roger Corman) approached Eastman and Laird with a short treatment for a more schlocky adaptation. I believe this was the one that was pitched as having then-current comedians in costumes and face paint. The nuns also had uzis.
Haha awesome thanks for the info.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:40 PM   #27
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That's because in Issue 4 Casey is smoking a cigarette from the building across the street watching the 4 of them talk to April. Most likely he saw them throw Leo in and snucked in while during the chaos.
i re-read issue #4 recently. i don't think that's Casey.
the very first time i read that i always felt it was someone nefarious. possibly the person who relayed the Turtles location to the Foot clan?

in Issue #10 when Casey shows up, he said he was tailing the Foot-

"you aren't the same good looking bunch a' dudes i followed here a minute ago-- i thought this would be a happening gig!"

at least that's how i interpreted it?
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:59 AM   #28
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It could've been worse. At the time the first movie came out, Mikey was the one all the kids were nuts over. We could have had HIM be the "starring Turtle" of the film and they'd have every excuse to do so, since his jokes and catchphrases were about 7/10s what kids watched the show for in the first place.

Original Film Series Mikey is my favorite Mikey by far, but... yeah, that would've been awful.

Frankly, as the Team Leader, Leonardo should by default be the main character to get focused on, but little kids don't like the whole "Big Brother" thing so I understand why he always has to play second-fiddle to "The Rage" and "The Nitwit", since those are just the right kind of one-note archetypes that kids and teens relate to. And cartoons and movies can't have "characters", especially in a team scenario. Everyone has to have "A Role". Leo's not flawed enough to focus on, so his "role" is to be "boring", by way of actually having his sh*t together and helping everyone get things done, and since that's not "colorful" or "exciting" enough he mostly "leads" from just off to the side of the screen.

Pisses me off but whattyagonnado.
The reason why Raph was focused on a lot because, as stated by Splinter in-film, "he is unique among his brothers".

I don't mind Leo being focused on, but he should not be portrayed as a "perfect older brother".

Which is what the Original 1990 Movie nailed.
Leo didn't want to take up his responsibilities as leader seriously.
He wanted to enjoy his childhood, playing and goofing off with Mikey and Donnie.
The reason why he and Raph butt heads in the original film is because Leo's calm and laid-back nature clashes with Raph's uber-serious and cynical attitude.

It's only after his negligence as leader ends up with Raph seriously injured does Leo start to grow into the leader that everyone wants (and needs) him to be.

Honestly, the way Leo was written as a character in the original movie makes him the best version of Leo out there (at least in my opinion).
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Old 02-09-2016, 12:41 PM   #29
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I still think that alot of the deliberate attempts at humor is the movie's biggest flaw, most of them fall flat. Why was shredder fighting new foot soldiers cut out? The movie also would have been way better if shredder got more screen time.
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:41 PM   #30
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It's one of my favorite versions of TMNT, as well as being among the most-ignored by the general public, thus proving my point thoroughly from both ends.
This, we can agree on.
But it was neat how Leo had that character arc in becoming a better leader. Hell of a lot better than TMNT I'll say that much.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:34 PM   #31
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That's because in Issue 4 Casey is smoking a cigarette from the building across the street watching the 4 of them talk to April. Most likely he saw them throw Leo in and snucked in while during the chaos.
Actually that wasn't Casey. According to Eastman and Laird in the Vol. 1 book for the Mirage comics, it was supposed to be Shredder or a Foot Soldier watching them but they never touched up on that part.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:51 PM   #32
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Actually that wasn't Casey. According to Eastman and Laird in the Vol. 1 book for the Mirage comics, it was supposed to be Shredder or a Foot Soldier watching them but they never touched up on that part.
yeah, that had to be a villain watching them. in issue #10 when Casey shows up he makes a statement that he was following the Foot into the Shop because they looked shady.

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in Issue #10 when Casey shows up, he said he was tailing the Foot-

"you aren't the same good looking bunch a' dudes i followed here a minute ago-- i thought this would be a happening gig!"
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Old 03-11-2016, 01:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
It could've been worse. At the time the first movie came out, Mikey was the one all the kids were nuts over. We could have had HIM be the "starring Turtle" of the film and they'd have every excuse to do so, since his jokes and catchphrases were about 7/10s what kids watched the show for in the first place.

Original Film Series Mikey is my favorite Mikey by far, but... yeah, that would've been awful.

Frankly, as the Team Leader, Leonardo should by default be the main character to get focused on, but little kids don't like the whole "Big Brother" thing so I understand why he always has to play second-fiddle to "The Rage" and "The Nitwit", since those are just the right kind of one-note archetypes that kids and teens relate to. And cartoons and movies can't have "characters", especially in a team scenario. Everyone has to have "A Role". Leo's not flawed enough to focus on, so his "role" is to be "boring", by way of actually having his sh*t together and helping everyone get things done, and since that's not "colorful" or "exciting" enough he mostly "leads" from just off to the side of the screen.

Pisses me off but whattyagonnado.
Interesting you note this. I've always had the same feeling as you, yet as a the target demographic at that time (born in 81 here)..... Leo has always been my favorite.

I hate that they never utilize him anywhere but the comics. Mirage and IDW both showed him as a proper badass taking on a mass of Foot on his own holding his own, if not winning, until Shredder trumps him. He's arguably the most advanced in ninjutsu, a leader, and a strategist, but everyone just writes him off as "boy scout."

Frustrates me even more that, in a martial arts story, Raph is so often shown as "brute force and anger bests discipline every time." -_-

Kind of a similar disappointment in the X-Men movies focusing on Wolverine. I think Wolvie/Raph should be supporting roles that steal scenes left and right rather than the focus.
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Old 03-11-2016, 02:48 PM   #34
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Interesting you note this. I've always had the same feeling as you, yet as a the target demographic at that time (born in 81 here)..... Leo has always been my favorite.

I hate that they never utilize him anywhere but the comics. Mirage and IDW both showed him as a proper badass taking on a mass of Foot on his own holding his own, if not winning, until Shredder trumps him. He's arguably the most advanced in ninjutsu, a leader, and a strategist, but everyone just writes him off as "boy scout."

Frustrates me even more that, in a martial arts story, Raph is so often shown as "brute force and anger bests discipline every time." -_-

Kind of a similar disappointment in the X-Men movies focusing on Wolverine. I think Wolvie/Raph should be supporting roles that steal scenes left and right rather than the focus.
i couldn't have said it better myself!
ever since i was a kid watching fantasy movies as well as martial arts films, i've just always loved sword wielding characters. (especially dual wielding)
so as soon as i discovered the Ninja Turtles Leo was it!!!
it's just narrow minded and lazy writing to portray Leonardo as a boy scout.
there's so much that can be done with him as a character, same with the complexity of Donatello.
but i guess it's easier to just focus on the funny guy or the angry guy?
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:33 PM   #35
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It's funny, because I've probably watched this movie like 1,000 times, and I somehow never noticed that Shredder had a cut on his back. I had to go back just to watch that part after I read this. Watching through that whole scene, they have a couple cut scenes during the fight, so I'm guessing that he probably got sliced off screen.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:00 AM   #36
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There was a thread here on the forum that showed the scene where Raphael shouts from the farm rooftop: "Splinter!"

I cannot find the image, but I remember someone saying that its really Michaelangelo standing on the roof...but with Raphael's voice.

I never really noticed because the scene happens so fast.
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Old 03-28-2016, 09:42 AM   #37
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Yeah, it's Mikey. You can see the belt tube for his weapons in the shot. Here's an excerpt from the script.

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Old 03-28-2016, 10:56 AM   #38
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There was a thread here on the forum that showed the scene where Raphael shouts from the farm rooftop: "Splinter!"

I cannot find the image, but I remember someone saying that its really Michaelangelo standing on the roof...but with Raphael's voice.

I never really noticed because the scene happens so fast.
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Yeah, it's Mikey. You can see the belt tube for his weapons in the shot. Here's an excerpt from the script.

http://i.imgur.com/dcgFhfS.jpg
yeah! that's SO weird because that definitely sounded like Raph's voice!
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:04 AM   #39
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yeah! that's SO weird because that definitely sounded like Raph's voice!
It was Raph's voice, the production redubbed the shot in post.
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Old 03-28-2016, 11:51 AM   #40
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That's because in Issue 4 Casey is smoking a cigarette from the building across the street watching the 4 of them talk to April.
I always took that as random Foot surveillance people.

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Maybe with the next reboot, it'll be a little more like the comics or 2K3
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