Marvel's The Eternals

[Leo656]

So apparently, this movie has an "audience score" of B, thus "officially" making it the "worst" MCU movie, because audiences being exit-polled give pretty much anything an A and a movie getting anything below B+ is pretty much equal to an F.

Don't even get me started on THAT logic, but whatever, that's how it works and that's where we're at.

As expected/predicted, articles are being written about how and why this is the case. The reason given? Stop me if you've heard this one before: "Racism and Sexism". "People don't want women - especially women of color - to direct these types of movies." That is the official narrative. As "proof", they illustrate how all of the director's other movies were highly-acclaimed by fans and critics. They also point out how "Birds of Prey" bombed, and how THAT movie ALSO had a woman of color as a director, and cites that as the sole reason for its failure (ignoring the fact that it was pretty much a piece of sh*t). Some articles also cite how that Ava woman had her New Gods movie canceled out from under her as more "proof" of the "Fanboys don't want women of color to do super-hero movies" thesis.

Now, good for these people going to such great lengths to read between the lines and in turn explain to all of us what is "really" going on here. But I don't actually think that's the case at all.

As more is being written about it, I definitely am seeing more and more people compare it to something Snyder may have done. I can't speak to that, having not seen this, but I hear them. And I think that in their zeal to make everything about racism and sexism, the people writing these articles are willfully turning a blind eye to what the truth is. Because if you take the time to read what people are really saying about why this movie underwhelmed them, they speak plain: "I go to see MCU movies for a fun romp, and this movie is not that."

It appears that like Snyder's DC films, this movie is too self-serious and "artsy-fartsy" for the more casual mainstream audience. Now, there IS an audience for that type of super-hero movie, obviously, but the people who generally go to see MCU movies LIKE the whole "formula". They don't like to see it deviated from. They don't want navel-gazing, they just want "fun" above all.

I'm not casting any indictments about that, I'm just saying, that it is what it is. If you ask them, they tell you.

It also sounds like this movie has tons of problems on a script level, but again, most people aren't citing that as a reason they didn't like it (neatoman did, I'm just saying in general). Most people are just like, "This doesn't feel like an MCU movie to me."

Why can't that be the narrative, since it's the truth? I mean granted, it sets a horrible precedent going forward if any MCU movie without a certain quota of fart jokes gets a "bad" rating from both audiences and critics. BUT, at least "These people simply prefer cotton candy movies over more self-serious ones" is TRUE, and not some sinister made-up "They just hate women of color and don't want them to succeed in this space" phony-baloney nonsense.

Side Note: Can anyone float me an example of a movie that got an "audience score" of F? I'm just curious; since anything below a B+ is more or less "the same thing" as an F when it comes to that stuff, I'm morbidly curious to know what kind of movie would get an actual F score from audiences.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

So apparently, this movie has an "audience score" of B, thus "officially" making it the "worst" MCU movie, because audiences being exit-polled give pretty much anything an A and a movie getting anything below B+ is pretty much equal to an F.

Don't even get me started on THAT logic, but whatever, that's how it works and that's where we're at.

As expected/predicted, articles are being written about how and why this is the case. The reason given? Stop me if you've heard this one before: "Racism and Sexism". "People don't want women - especially women of color - to direct these types of movies." That is the official narrative. As "proof", they illustrate how all of the director's other movies were highly-acclaimed by fans and critics. They also point out how "Birds of Prey" bombed, and how THAT movie ALSO had a woman of color as a director, and cites that as the sole reason for its failure (ignoring the fact that it was pretty much a piece of sh*t). Some articles also cite how that Ava woman had her New Gods movie canceled out from under her as more "proof" of the "Fanboys don't want women of color to do super-hero movies" thesis.

Now, good for these people going to such great lengths to read between the lines and in turn explain to all of us what is "really" going on here. But I don't actually think that's the case at all.

As more is being written about it, I definitely am seeing more and more people compare it to something Snyder may have done. I can't speak to that, having not seen this, but I hear them. And I think that in their zeal to make everything about racism and sexism, the people writing these articles are willfully turning a blind eye to what the truth is. Because if you take the time to read what people are really saying about why this movie underwhelmed them, they speak plain: "I go to see MCU movies for a fun romp, and this movie is not that."

It appears that like Snyder's DC films, this movie is too self-serious and "artsy-fartsy" for the more casual mainstream audience. Now, there IS an audience for that type of super-hero movie, obviously, but the people who generally go to see MCU movies LIKE the whole "formula". They don't like to see it deviated from. They don't want navel-gazing, they just want "fun" above all.

I'm not casting any indictments about that, I'm just saying, that it is what it is. If you ask them, they tell you.

It also sounds like this movie has tons of problems on a script level, but again, most people aren't citing that as a reason they didn't like it (neatoman did, I'm just saying in general). Most people are just like, "This doesn't feel like an MCU movie to me."

Why can't that be the narrative, since it's the truth? I mean granted, it sets a horrible precedent going forward if any MCU movie without a certain quota of fart jokes gets a "bad" rating from both audiences and critics. BUT, at least "These people simply prefer cotton candy movies over more self-serious ones" is TRUE, and not some sinister made-up "They just hate women of color and don't want them to succeed in this space" phony-baloney nonsense.

Side Note: Can anyone float me an example of a movie that got an "audience score" of F? I'm just curious; since anything below a B+ is more or less "the same thing" as an F when it comes to that stuff, I'm morbidly curious to know what kind of movie would get an actual F score from audiences.

There is so much BS in review scores across the board that the real solution is to look at two things and two things only - Box office haul and hindsight reviews. Everyone claimed they loved Iron Man 3 coming out of the theater. Look at that movie now.

Aggregate reviewers - basically manipulated willingly by studio access
Theater pollers - impacted by recency bias and also basically by toxic positivity and societal expectations of "politeness".
Even the immediate box office is biased. Dumb people will claim that some movie is "soaring" to 70 million! or something like that, but when the dust settles it brings in 200 million in the U.S. which is nothing nowadays.

I'm telling you, the two closest metrics we have for true public sentiment are final box office takes and then what people say about the movie months after it's release when they aren't afraid to buck the perceived trend that something was "great".

Fact. There are a LOT of tribal-cowards out there who will boost positivity about anything simply to not be targeted for the truth. It's literally reciprocating causation of $#!( people. The people who do it will also attack anyone outside their tribe-mindset so as to appear part of the tribe. It's literally much of the reason people will come out of a movie acting excited and then later, when it's safe will tell you that it wasn't that great and eventually diminish down to "it sucked". Societal cowardice literally translates into improved movie scores, it's insane.

[Leo656]

I personally don't even put anything into box office, quite frankly. Almost every single Transformers movie cracked a billion, thus proving that people will pay to sit through any godawful piece of sh*t so long as they get to sit in the air conditioning for two hours in July.

And of course, the flipside of that, which is some movies don't do great box office but make tons of money (sometimes equal or even greater amounts as the box office) on disc and streaming and whatever. So I don't even think box office tells any kind of story other than what mood people were collectively in on that specific day.

Put simply, with regard to this whole thing I'm just irritated that "journalists" are once again TELLING people what they mean when they say they found this movie underwhelming, rather than just listening to them. Right from the very first critics' reviews that came out, it's right there in black and white: "It's too long and too serious for a Marvel movie." Now that audiences have seen it, many say the same thing: "It's very pretty, but I don't go to MCU movies for that, I wanna ride the rollercoaster."

Why is it that so many pen-holders insist on playing the whole "What you REALLY mean is THIS" game?

I guess it might be partly because admitting that would mean admitting that most MCU movies do in fact pander to the lowest common denominator and that Scorsese was correct. But I mean, either way, it's disingenuous to ascribe racist, sexism, and other sinister motives when people say outright, "I just thought it was boring."

[Coola Yagami]

I think the thing is, no one knows or cares about the Eternals.

Same can be said about Guardians of the Galaxy but, talking tree and raccoon. And green alien babe.

Suicide Squad had Harley Quinn and for better or for worse, the Joker. Remove those two and not have Will Smith play Deadshot... now let's see who cares to see the movie.

The Eternals are boring no-name heroes played by boring no-name actors. No one asked for this. Just keep it moving with stuff like Spider-Man, Doctor Strange and Thor. No one cares about these guys.

Stop pussy-footing and bring in the X-Men already. Are you guys gonna do it or not? Do it while the MCU fans are still somewhat young, geez. I'm gonna be in my 70's by the time the MCU X-Men finally come out.

[Leo656]

Well, I mean, they have to figure out which X-Man is gonna be gay, which one is trans, and which one(s) will be race-flipped, and that's gonna take them a while yet.

Also, there's a chance they might not even call it "X-Men", because even that title is now "offensive", and lord I wish I was joking but I'm not.

So yeah, they still have a lot to figure out before they pop the cork on MCU X-Men. I have a very strong feeling that people aren't gonna be thrilled when they actually get the thing they claim to want. It's certainly not going to look the way it does in their imaginations, that much I can almost promise.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Well, I mean, they have to figure out which X-Man is gonna be gay, which one is trans, and which one(s) will be race-flipped, and that's gonna take them a while yet.

They know which one will be the cripple, though I bet you they're going to cast an actual cripple this time because that's what you have to do in their eyes these days. No such thing as acting anymore, only robbing roles from other races and minorities, better actor or not.

[Leo656]

Yeah, that sh*t is f*cking ridiculous.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, gone are the days where the best person gets the role and if they just so happen to not be white, so be it.

I don't know, I never believed one race to be superior than the other, but it kinda says something where it looks like the best people for the job just so happen to be mostly white and straight, and the only way gay gender swaps and whatever else can even get in the door is by lyin', cheatin' and stealing. They're purposely admitting they can't make it under their own merit. They're basically saying the white man is superior and to get to where they are they have to do so by dishonest means.

It's ****ed up, but all this forced diversity is kinda quietly saying so.

[Sumac]

Its basically what SJW / modern Left are about - Racism and Sexism, e.t.c. of low expectations.

SJW admit that: a) other races can't do the same things that White and Straight can do;
b) in order to achieve the same progress as White and Straight, others should do as (certain segmented of ) White and Straight tell them;

It is hilarious.

[ProphetofGanja]

well, just got done seeing it. any movie that starts off with Pink Floyd's "Time" is doing something right so I will say that at least had that much going for them. And Salma Hayek and Angelina Jolie are still so, SO fine. Hayek is like a chick you would try to date and Jolie is like your friend's super hot mom that you would risk the whole friendship for. Gilgamesh was the ultimate bro, I liked him. Jon Snow was barely in this.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Yeah, gone are the days where the best person gets the role and if they just so happen to not be white, so be it.

I don't know, I never believed one race to be superior than the other, but it kinda says something where it looks like the best people for the job just so happen to be mostly white and straight, and the only way gay gender swaps and whatever else can even get in the door is by lyin', cheatin' and stealing. They're purposely admitting they can't make it under their own merit. They're basically saying the white man is superior and to get to where they are they have to do so by dishonest means.

It's ****ed up, but all this forced diversity is kinda quietly saying so.

[Andrew NDB]

So the end of Eternals could be a lead-in to Galactus.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/eternal...lactus-in-mcu/

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Given the appearance of two new characters at the end, it could also be a lead in to several other new additions as well.

Spoiler:

The fact that Pip has been associated with Both Adam Warlock, who is already hinted at in GotG2, and Silver Surfer, Galactus and perhaps the Infinity Guardians may be possibilities for the future. Gamora was a part of that group as well, so she may join them. I'malso intrigued by the idea of tying in to Nova, the FF, and X-Factor.

[IMJ]

Curious to see if being phony, toxicly-positive, or going on about "my theater was full during my viewing" actually translates into results as supported by the wider public....

Where does this one sit on the earnings ladder now that it's a couple of weeks in? How was the second weekend Box Office as compared to the opening?

[AquaParade]

That was pretty good!

Definitely doesn’t deserve to be the lowest rated MCU movie on Rotten Tomatoes, imo.

I’ll need to watch it again, but I appreciated the visuals and I felt they balanced drama with comedy a little better than the average MCU film.


Not bad at all. I might consider owning at some point. I enjoyed it more than Black Widow and Shang-Chi.

[Leo656]

It definitely doesn't look like my cup of tea but I also wouldn't be shocked if it is indeed at least a bit better than most critics and MCU stans said it was.

The most persistent criticisms - and there were MANY criticisms, but the most overwhelming ones - were that it was "too long, boring, and self-serious for a Marvel movie. These are supposed to be fun romps, we don't want something like this."

It's like how I said in another thread, "Coke fans will NEVER be Pepsi fans." People like different things for different reasons. And people who like One Type of super-hero movie, by and large, don't like ones that are outside of their comfort zone. Sure, there's a few people - like me - who can watch either BvS or Raimi's Spider-Man depending on my mood and be just fine either way, but by and large that isn't how most people are with this genre. Some, yes, most, no.

I was interested in how this movie would go over with people simply because I wanted to see if MCU fans would have the patience/tolerance for something a bit more self-serious than what they're used to. Turns out, nah. Which retroactively explains why so many of those people hated a lot of the DC movies that were in that vein, as well. As I've always said, it's not at all that those movies were "bad", because they were not. They just weren't made for the "movies as theme park rides" type of audience. So now we see that it's pretty much a consistent thing with that audience; they simply want a fun romp every time out. When it's NOT that, it's simply a "bad super-hero movie".

I mean, maybe it IS a bad movie, I don't know. I'll never see it so I'll never know. I've just been following the cultural conversation to see what can be learned about the larger audience for comic book films. Quite a lot, as it turns out.

[AquaParade]

I had similar feelings and questions. The temperature of the reviews had me thinking this might be more up my alley.

There are some MCU movies I love, but I've been bored to near-death by just as many, and they are usually praised by critics either way. If the critics praise the good and the bad movies (imo, anyway) in the exact same way, then one of the MCU movies that actually does get some blowback is sure to be at least interesting.

I'd take it over Far From Home and I love Spider-Man.

[Leo656]

What I saw in the reviews for this movie, were a lot of the same statements I saw in reviews for "Thor: Ragnarok" from the complete opposite direction. People loved that movie, and hated this one, but in most of the reviews for either, were a ton of statements in the vein of, "Super-heroes are silly, ergo, their movies should be silly. If it's not silly, then it's automatically Bad."

Now, quite frankly, if I had the money and time, I would totally pull a "Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back" and go door-to-door "correcting" such people in turn. Probably with a slapjack and a baseball bat.

But regardless, that's the overwhelmingly dominant opinion of the genre among critics and the mainstream "casual" audience. "Keep it stupid, Stupid. This sh*t ain't Shakespeare." It's a dumb opinion, but they're wedded to it. Personally, just like with TMNT I can't fathom why so many people who claim to "love" a thing ONLY like it if it's dumb, but whatever, there's a ton of things about people I don't fully understand. It's just things I notice.

Anyway, glad you had fun with it. Not shocked it's not as bad as people said. But "Marvel movie" + "Bollywood Dance Scene" means I'll never see it.

[Sumac]

Because, you can make silly movie fun and you can make it stupid.
Mystery solved!

[CyberCubed]

Just saw this today too, it was a bit better than I thought, but I can understand the complaints. This movie introduced like 10 new superheroes and only 3 of them got proper characterisation. The rest were bland and just defined by one trait. You don't introduce 10 superheroes in one movie and expect people to care about them all.

I did like the fights with the deviant monsters, and the overall theme that a God Celestial Being wanted to create a new life destroying the Earth by harnessing all the energy.

I liked the Superman joke in the movie, the little kid thought one of the main guys was Superman because he shot lasers from his eyes and flew in the sky. I'm surprised Disney allowed a DC reference.