DC Future State

[oldmanwinters]

On Thursday, DC Comics announced that Tim Fox, a Black character from the Batman universe, will be the new Batman in a four-issue comic book series. . . . Each issue is written by John Ridley, who penned the Oscar-winning screenplay for 12 Years a Slave, while Nick Derington, Laura Braga, and more will handle the art. . . .

In a recent interview, Ridley said his sons were a big inspiration for the new series: "They’re happy for me. They’re great supporters. But they would much rather see Black Panther than 12 Years a Slave, let’s be honest," said Ridley in a recent New York Times interview. "So to be able to write the next Batman, for them to know that this next Batman is going to be Black, everybody else on the planet can hate it, have a problem with it, denigrate it, but I have my audience and they already love it."

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...184502259.html

Seems like I've heard this kind of pre-emptive strike against fans before....

[AquaParade]

I'll check out the first issue for sure, but it'll have to be really great to keep me around past that.

I'm a sucker for legacy character (arcs) though. Dick Grayson as Batman, Superior Spider-Man, etc. I just find that it creates a fresh dynamic or a fun spin on something I love. It creates ripe opportunities for stories where characters are in over their head, it allows you to deconstruct the characters or look at them through a new lense, and legacy characters also have potential to be more relatable than the unbeatable monoliths that have been crafted over decades of serialized storytelling. It's like hearing a great cover song.

[oldmanwinters]

I am amused by the fact that the Fox children are about as confusing to account for as the Cosby kids...

In the Batman comic books, Lucius Fox and Tanya Fox have a number of children, but continuity has confused them over the years, Fox's youngest daughter, Tiffany, was first shown in Batman #308 in 1979, but was not substantially explored until The New 52 reboot of DC's continuity, which reintroduced her along with her siblings in Batwing #22. That series saw his son Luke Fox take the role of Batwing. Fox's daughter Tam was also introduced in the New 52 series Red Robin. The alternative future story shown in Batgirl: Futures End in 2014 showed Tiffany grow up to be a protege of Barbara Gordon, one of several women to use the Batgirl moniker. But one of the Fox siblings seemed to have been missed out.

Prior to The New 52, Lucius had a son named Timothy whose occasional delinquency embarrassed his father, and who first appeared in Batman #313 in 1979. Luke Fox seemed to replace him in the Batman comics after the New 52 reboot.

We saw the return of Tim Fox in Batman: The Joker War Zone also written by John Ridley. hat we may be seeing a return of Tim Fox, courtesy of writer John Ridley, who is writing the upcoming Batman comic book focused on the Lucius Fox family. We had always heard that it would see Luke Fox, son of Lucius Fox, take on the role of Batman. Originally that would have been for the line as a whole as part of the 5G relaunch, now its for an Ultimate-style mini-imprint of continuity all to itself.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...e-next-batman/

[Leo656]

I mean, that's my thing with this idea, though. Is simply that there's already a lot of potential "Legacy Batmans" floating around in this universe.

There's no rule, obviously, that says a Legacy Batman can't be a black guy. But depending on how far into the future it is, if it's in the same universe where Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damien Wayne etc. all exist, your reasoning for why the Legacy Batman is some rando and not one of them becomes more and more contrived and feels less organic. Especially when - let's just be honest - most readers would prefer to see any single one of those characters as Future Batman. When you do things a certain way, it feels less like natural, organic story progression, moving the characters and story as we know them forward in a way that feels natural, and more like starting with the premise of "We need a black guy" and working backwards from there, which feels a bit more pandering and contrived. Like sure, any writer could just as well say "All those other guys are dead, therefore This Guy", but that just doesn't feel right.

I admit, though, I forget how far in the future Future State is supposed to be. I mean after getting past the First Generation of potential Legacy Batmans you have a lot more freedom to do whatever, sure.

That defensive quote from the author doesn't exactly help him, though.

[AquaParade]

The story potential is still there however and I do like the hook. But, yeah, it doesn't exactly feel like a natural evolution, and I can imagine getting hung up on that. And maybe the legacy Batman idea has been done to death in recent times. That "Superheavy" arc by Snyder and Capullo is one of the most gorgeous things I've ever seen, but the idea and execution of Jim being Batman did not come together for me, and was a bit too soon after Morrison had done his stint with Dick Grayson for it to feel all that fresh.

Man, I always say this, but I wish that Dick as Batman could have remained the status quo. We are going to be getting Bruce Wayne Batman stories for the rest of eternity, but evolution like that is rare. Plus Morrison wanted to keep it going, and an inspired Morrison is a good thing to have around. I'm sure they could have found plenty of space for Bruce Wayne, while allowing Dick to remain under the cowl. Perhaps Bruce could have remained as more of a "global Batman". Perhaps at some point, his ambitions do outgrow Gotham. Makes sense to me.

Dick's origin is not all that different from Bruce's, so I feel that it's essentially just as powerful and built to last. Well, maybe it doesn't quite have quite the same level of drama considering what a weirdo Bruce turned out to be, I'm not sure...

[Leo656]

Yeah, I don't know about it being the status quo for perpetuity, but Dick as Batman felt like an idea that happened As and When it was meant to, more or less. Like it felt "right", like "the time had finally come" or whatever. I don't like Damien, so I would have had it be Dick and Tim as Batman and Robin, because theirs is a dynamic I've always been a huge fan of. But in any case, I would have loved to see it go on for longer. I felt like Dick was a GREAT Batman, and he's honestly the only one who would feel "right" in the role after Bruce.

Like not to totally shine up DiDio, but he did kinda have a point with what he said once upon a time with, "If Grayson isn't going to become the next Batman, then where does his character have left to go?" He specifically said that in justification for trying to kill him off, but from the opposite direction it could just as well mean, "If not Grayson for Batman 2.0, Who Better?" It's like the only way to move the story forward that feels REAL, with the characters we already have and not just making up new ones.

Bruce's return - albeit inevitable and welcome - felt a little rushed, to me. I forget, didn't it have something to do with a movie or video game coming out, that DC felt they had to scramble to get Bruce back in the game a little quicker? I swear it was something like that. I personally am MOST invested in only Bruce as Batman, but in that case I wish the Dick Grayson experiment had lasted for another year or so, at least.

[MikeandRaph87]

Is it Tim, the pre-crisis son of Lucius, who was recently referred to for the first time in years or the New 52 to present son Luke playing Batman?

It's getting to a trend every few years that Batman is replaced. Commissioner Gordon, Fox's children, or replacement Robin does not emulate the success of Dick Grayson as Batman. I am that 1% that prefer Mr. Grayson in the bat suit and will buy every book with him wearing it. Like with Wally they need to be allowed to replace their mentor. I also wonder if The Last Day of the DC Universe will repeat the tease and not follow through of Dick/Barbara like in Infinite Crisis where TPTB never intended for a pay off.

[sdp]

This will continue to happen because simply there's only so much you can do "new" if characters can never age in "comic book time", it's horrible, they really should just let them age, no one buys comics anyway so have them age and just have other reboot comics.

I personally don't like any of the robins taking up the mantle, I prefer Terry or even John Paul Valley. I don't mind having a black Batman but it's kind of pointless since we know Bruce will be back eventually. But why Lucius Fox's kid? Perhaps they should've let Batwing that black african batman become Batman since he is the only member of the bat family that I don't know much about, at least this could've given him some personality.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by sdp

I personally don't like any of the robins taking up the mantle, I prefer Terry or even John Paul Valley.

"I prefer the next Batman be the guy who was explicitly only created in the first place to be the sh*ttiest Batman replacement possible."

I'll bite: What exactly makes you prefer Jean-Paul so much over the rest, given that he was explicitly designed by Editorial to be the Worst Possible Batman and you're not actually supposed to like him? I'm genuinely curious.

I mean, "This guy would be a terrible Batman" was the entire point of his whole storyline. They weren't even subtle about it, it was pretty heavy-handed.

[ZariusTwo]

I like Terry, but I'd rather not rely on him to be a future Batman any longer. It means a lousy future for Bruce, and I'm solidly in Tom King's camp when it comes to bittersweet futures for the character. Give him a wife, settle him down, and have him die surrounded by family.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I like Terry, but I'd rather not rely on him to be a future Batman any longer. It means a lousy future for Bruce, and I'm solidly in Tom King's camp when it comes to bittersweet futures for the character. Give him a wife, settle him down, and have him die surrounded by family.

I am the same way. However, even on Earth-2 he met tragedy despite the happy later life which he married a reformed Selina. One of her henchmen blackmailed her into committing one last heist and Bruce indirectly caused her death. He would soon follow killed by a temporarily superpowered thug. Both died when forced to mask up again. Now Bruce dies ahead of Selina likely tragically. I like the idea of Bruce becoming mayor or police commissioner or some kind of influential role that could help Gotham and the greater good beyond the time he could be actively effective under the cowl. There is also the built in successor that has been there even before Batman had been created for a whole year, Dick Grayson. Allowing for growth of both Bruce and Dick is for Bruce establishing the vigilante legacy and Dick leading the caped and cowl future. I know Leo will say Bruce is destined to end in killed in action and that is the unbreakable destiny, yet I would like to see what lies beyond Batman.

Also, I asked this in the other thread, I read four DC titles Batgirl, Green Lantern, Detective Comics, and Justice League (2018 ). Batgirl is cancelled at #50. Green Lantern Season 2 will run its course in two more issues. I refuse to be woke so I dropped Detective Comics. What is the status of Justice League (2018 )? Is it still happening or is it being replaced by this woke Justice League with a black Wonder Woman and black Batman and what looked to be Aquaman's daughter and Superman's son? Its like Future State is 5G in disguise and the whole line is effected after all instead of it happening in its own book and it does not really effect anything so we could carry on and ignore it.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Also, I asked this in the other thread, I read four DC titles Batgirl, Green Lantern, Detective Comics, and Justice League (2018 ). Batgirl is cancelled at #50. Green Lantern Season 2 will run its course in two more issues. I refuse to be woke so I dropped Detective Comics. What is the status of Justice League (2018 )? Is it still happening or is it being replaced by this woke Justice League with a black Wonder Woman and black Batman and what looked to be Aquaman's daughter and Superman's son? Its like Future State is 5G in disguise and the whole line is effected after all instead of it happening in its own book and it does not really effect anything so we could carry on and ignore it.

Justice League's status is still unknown, Joshua Williamson isn't continuing with it, he was only on board for the Death Metal tie-ins. Rumours have circulated that Bendis is taking the helm.

Green Lantern will be relaunched and is written by a guy who has publicly expressed dislike towards Hal Jordan, although he recently posted on CBR's forums revealing he has no intent on derailing his character.

Future State is what remains of 5G and some of it will influence 2021's comic storylines, but it's not going to become a definitive future for the company, at some point, the stories will diverge from that timeline.

[Andrew NDB]

Jean Paul Valley was awesome until you could see it was like, "oh oh, time's up, time to make him nuts" in the Abbattoir issue.

[Leo656]

Man, a lotta people sure didn't actually read/get the point of his entire run, turns out. Huh.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Man, a lotta people sure didn't actually read/get the point of his entire run, turns out. Huh.

No no, I did in retrospect right away (sour the milk and all). But JPV was still pretty cool and fresh for a while.

[oldmanwinters]

I didn't get around to reading the whole of the Knightfall arc until sometime in the last 10 years. I was always led to believe JPV failed as a hero because he crossed lines that Bruce Wayne never would, which I interpreted to mean he killed criminals or else severely maimed them. Then I read the arc and was stunned to discover that there is very little of that in the actual issues. The worst thing he does is "choosing not to save a criminal." Gee, where have I seen Batman say and do that before?.... I'm looking at you, Christopher Nolan!

I mean, JPV is basically the ideal Batman for today's public... aside from the religious cult voices in his head, maybe.

Also, by today's moral standards, the worst thing Az-Bats did was probably that time when he lost his mind against Tim Drake in the Batcave and threatened to choke him... that's Cancel Culture worthy, right there!

[sdp]

JPV just isn't one of the batfamily, he's an outsider, he can have his redemption arc or whatever. To me if any of the Robins take the Batman mantle its a step back on who they are, Batman doesn't want them to be like him. I hated when Nightwing became Batman in RIP or that Tim Drake was Batman Beyond in some Teen Titans story in the mid 00s etc. So, if someone needs to become Batman then I guess Terry (not counting he's technically his son I guess) or Jean could be it. I only read some parts of Knightfall many moons ago from a random ebay comic lot I bought in the 00's, I'm sure I didn't get the full experience but my point is more of a someone who is not as connected to Batman is the one who could become Batman.

The son of Lucius Fox is ridiculous that just coincidentally he has a son who is also physically trained to take the mantle of Batman? Whatever that's why I suggested Batwing if they wanted a black Batman to try something different. I literally know nothing about Batwing besides that he started in Batman Inc and I think he's sort of an Iron Man type character right? Why not give him this "batman run" to get people interested in him. It worked for Spoiler when she was Batgirl, suddenly her Robin stint was no longer forgotten and now she was "important", I was happy to see that despite hating her as Batgirl.

[Andrew NDB]

Plus the idea that "just any old person can be Batman" kind of makes Batman... not Batman.

[MikeandRaph87]

Sdp, the guy taking up the Bat costume is not Batwing II, it's his older brother who Len Wein created back when Lucius and his wife were introduced in 1979. Tim Fox is a forgotten character. Luke took over for a Batman Incorporated character that was from South Africa that did not work out in his own title. I honestly thought that Tim was erased and replaced by Luke much to the way Barbara Gordon's late older brother Tony Gordon was supplanted by James Gordon Jr.

As for replacing Bruce if there is an answer beyond his inspiration for a better Gotham its Dick Grayson even if Dick is looking for something else he comes around to seeing it's his destiny to make it his own. I should bump up a thread I made awhile ago about the difficulties of legacy characters.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Sdp, the guy taking up the Bat costume is not Batwing II, it's his older brother who Len Wein created back when Lucius and his wife were introduced in 1979. Tim Fox is a forgotten character. Luke took over for a Batman Incorporated character that was from South Africa that did not work out in his own title. I honestly thought that Tim was erased and replaced by Luke much to the way Barbara Gordon's late older brother Tony Gordon was supplanted by James Gordon Jr.

As for replacing Bruce if there is an answer beyond his inspiration for a better Gotham its Dick Grayson even if Dick is looking for something else he comes around to seeing it's his destiny to make it his own. I should bump up a thread I made awhile ago about the difficulties of legacy characters.

I picked up the free preview issue this week and it looks like Bruce Wayne (and all the other Legacy characters of Kal-El, Diana) is still around and in costume, but I'm not certain what role they will be playing:
"Presumed dead and on the run, Future State is not going to be easy for Bruce Wayne--thus the rough-and-tumble tactical gear he's sporting in Future State: Dark Detective.
https://www.comixology.com/DC-Nation...9pdGVtU2xpZGVy