Raphael is cool, but rude?

[Zenrick]

Ok, is it just me or did the writer of the first TMNT movie take that line too seriously for writing Raph's role? I thought Raph was an idiot in the first movie. I love Raph and all, but I thought his personality was butchered in that movie. Nothing compares to the cartoon.....sorry.

[Edit: Removed potentially offensive sentence. --Krang]

[Karpo_007]

Actually the movie Raph was pretty close to the True Raphael. The cartoon one didn't come close.

[Duke]

Raph in the cartoon was far better, but i don't think i go as far as butched just miss represented him. If they took time to butcher anything it was not making splinter human before he was a rat. The dumbest part of the movie was when the little rat was doing ninjitsu in the cage. Come on think things through, you stupid hollywood movie money grubbers.

[Zenrick]

The TRUE Raph is the cartoon Raph, the comic and what-not doesnt compare. Did they become popular from the comic? No, they were recognized. The cartoon made them what they are. I agree Duke that the whole Splinter concept in the movie was rather retarded. How can a rat come close to scratching a sweet dude like Shredder? He'd have chopped that rat into a million pieces before it even left the ground, can rats even leave the ground without someone kicking them?? Man. Might as well just make April an infant that gets ooze poured on her, but since she was raised by her mother who likes bananas, she becomes a young woman whom likes yellow. Thats just as well thought out.

[Edit: Removed racial comments. --Krang]

[Duke]

Sorry Karpo_007 but I'm going to have to agree with Zenrick on this one. Who cares if it represented the comic? Yeah I love the comic but the show was the one that truely started it all. Without the cartoon I would probably never have read a single comic. There is nothing that beats the cartoon. Come on, I dare anyone to post something that beats the cartoon. And if you are stupid enough to try, I am not sorry to tell you that your wrong.

[heretic888]

hooo boy.

Raph in the cartoon was far better, but i don't think i go as far as butched just miss represented him

Actually, the Raphael of the cartoon was the one misrepresented. His character was horribly butchered in the cartoon series (along with Michelangelo's), and reduced to a cliched stereotype. The comic Raph (and Mike) had some actual depth of character.

If they took time to butcher anything it was not making splinter human before he was a rat. The dumbest part of the movie was when the little rat was doing ninjitsu in the cage. Come on think things through, you stupid hollywood movie money grubbers.

Actually, genius, that comes from the original comic series, of which the movie was an adaptation. It was NOT an adaptation of the cartoon.

The TRUE Raph is the cartoon Raph, the comic and what-not doesnt compare.

Incorrect. The characters of the comic series were not only the original formats of these characters, they also were the ones that represented them the truest. Rapahel, along with the other turtles, of the comic book was a real character with actual depth and intrigue. The cartoon was a simplistic, childish cliche stereotype which, although entertaining to children, hardly compares to fullness of the comic book archetypes.

Did they become popular from the comic? No, they were recognized. The cartoon made them what they are.

You could not be any more wrong on that one. The cartoon was what made the turtles popular and what got Mirage rich. What 'made them what they are' was the depth and richness of the original comic book series. Just because the cartoon reached a wider audience (mostly children) does not mean it in any way defines the true characters.

I agree Duke that the whole Splinter concept in the movie was rather retarded.

It came from the original comic, genius, and, as far out as it seems, is still a hell of lot more realistic and believable than the cartoon plot.

Besides, the point of a story in truly great works of independent art is to express deep themes and archetypal energies and feelings. You won't find any of that in the cartoon. Almost everything in the origin story of the comic, however, has a symbolic significance.

[Edit: Removed quote of post above. --Krang]

[Shellfox]

Originally Posted by heretic888

It came from the original comic, genius, and, as far out as it seems, is still a hell of lot more realistic and believable than the cartoon plot.

Realistic? Its a rat learning martial arts, I'm the first to admit Rats are smart but they are not that smart. As far as splinter goes its more beliveable for him to be human.

[Duke]

Yeah, thanks for the insite their heretic888 but I'm sticking with Shellfox on this one. Splinter should have been human. If not, where did he learn martial arts? When he was still in a cage? How is that realistic? I just can't comprehend that concept at all. Maybe its just me. And its just my opinion that the cartoon truely started it all. I'm sorry if you took offense to that. But speaking from personal experience every one I know got into the turtles because of the cartoon.

[BigThew]

basically it all boils down to what you think the Ture TMNT universe is

is it the comic?
is it the cartoon?
"the cartoon made them popular"
"but without no comic there wouldn't be a cartoon"

there are 2 sides to this and no one will come to a conclusion

[Duke]

Originally posted by heretic888
Just because the cartoon mass-popularized the characters does not mean it defines them. The apex of the turtle archetypes is hardly limited to the amusement of children.

I'm 18 and in no way do I not still find the cartoon amusing. Not only do i still found it very amusing, but must you my college friends do too and the majority are older than me.

[Deathknight]

Originally Posted by heretic888

A rat learning a martial art like Ninpo is not quite as far-fetched as you might think. Ninpo is based on refining flow and natural body movement, not memorizing preset movements like karate is. It is till unrealistic though... however, it is nowhere near as unrealistic as the idea of a mutagenic agent that can 'turn' you into whatever animal you last touched. That's just stupid. A hyper-evolutionary agent could at least be credible (although still highly dubious).

You just majorly dissed yourself there, mutagen, or some kind of mutating material is how the turtles were created in all the tmnt universes. As for a rat learning ninjitsu, I highly doubt that a rat could mimic it and remember it well enough to teach it even though Splinter getting mutated highly raised his intelligence.

[heretic888]

I'm 18 and in no way do I not still find the cartoon amusing. Not only do i still found it very amusing, but must you my college friends do too and the majority are older than me.

I am 20, and I too still find the series amusing. However, I am not going to pretend that the range of depth in the series, as well as its motive and purpose, was anything but the amusement of children.

[MzTheInsomniac]

Originally Posted by Deathknight

You just majorly dissed yourself there, mutagen, or some kind of mutating material is how the turtles were created in all the tmnt universes. As for a rat learning ninjitsu, I highly doubt that a rat could mimic it and remember it well enough to teach it even though Splinter getting mutated highly raised his intelligence.

well the tmnt isnt the most realistic universe out there

[Deathknight]

true.........

[Karpo_007]

Well It isn't ment to be realistic, But the Mutagen and Ooze are completely diffrent things. Ooze evolves Life forms where Mutagen changes life forms appearence to last life form he touched.

Basicly wich is more realistic is a matter of opinion, but the fact is that the origin story was changed because there couldn't have been death in the cartoon.

[Duke]

Originally posted by Deathknight
As for a rat learning ninjitsu, I highly doubt that a rat could mimic it and remember it well enough to teach it even though Splinter getting mutated highly raised his intelligence.

Yeah because you have to remember that he would have had to learn the ninjitsu before he ever increased his intelligence

[Zenrick]

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Well It isn't ment to be realistic, But the Mutagen and Ooze are completely diffrent things. Ooze evolves Life forms where Mutagen changes life forms appearence to last life form he touched.

Basicly wich is more realistic is a mater of opinion, but the fact is that the origin story was changed because there couldn't have been death in the cartoon.

Many flies died in the cartoon. DEATH! *gasp!*

[heretic888]

You just majorly dissed yourself there, mutagen, or some kind of mutating material is how the turtles were created in all the tmnt universes. As for a rat learning ninjitsu, I highly doubt that a rat could mimic it and remember it well enough to teach it even though Splinter getting mutated highly raised his intelligence.

Ninpo is about refining natural movement and flow, not memorizing preset dances as in most martial arts.

And, as I said previously, the realism factor is irrelevant. The expression of creative depth THROUGH the plot is what matters, and only the Mirage tmnt deliver on this (although the Archie do to a much lesser degree).

[Karpo_007]

The cartoon had a pretty good plot in the first season. Nothing compared to Mirage or Archie of course but it was still good.

[BigThew]

JUTS IGNORE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING YOU MAD

and get back on topic...raph seemed like a smart allic in the cartoon and very disturbed in the cartoon