The New Movie And Marketing

*Roseangelo* · 04-12-2007, 06:05 PM

In the wake of the new movie's initial opening weekend success followed by box office numbers that declined far too fast for anyone's liking, I've had a lot of thoughts running around in my head about how the movie might have been even just a little more successful or, at least, more well-received.

If you're going to make a movie based on characters' comic book roots, a person should be able to walk into a comic book store and find those roots. I know Peter has no plans to reprint anything from Volume 1 canon before he can go and retone/reletter everything, but it would have been reallyreally smart business sense to have a reprint of Collected Book #1 readily available in every comic book shop, book store, AND Amazon.com at the time of the movie's release.

There are three existing editions of this book and all three of them have been selling on eBay for crazy prices that often breach $100 (and IMO only the hardcover version has been selling at a price fair to what it's actually worth). I know I would love to get at least two more copies of this book for myself (one to have as a personal reading copy and one to keep aside for my nephew until he gets old enough to read it), but I'm not willing to pay more than cover price. If someone who refuses to like a TMNT movie because Shredder and Krang aren't in it were able to walk into a Borders store and discover that Turtles didn't need recurring villians, some minds might be opened and some opinions might be changed.

As it is, the TPBs that Mirage has recently published aren't carried by any bookstores and CAN'T be ordered. I have a friend who works at B&N who tried to order them using the ISBN numbers, but the books weren't to be found in the system AT ALL. What's up with that? They're also not on Amazon.

One of the critic complaints I saw more than once for the movie was that it was just another mindless vehicle to sell action figures. Now, you and I know that's not (completely) true, but can you see any solid, actual evidence that that's not the case? There really aren't any products marketed for adults. And I don't even mean ultra-hardcore violent Turtles who swear and drink beer. Reprinting the old comic books would be a start, but I really think there could be a market for adult novels like there are for Star Trek and Star Wars, as well as several comic book properties and other media tie-ins.

I also think that there needs to be an "Ultimate Guide to:" book published by DK, like there is for every other comic book franchise that has had a movie in recent years. Foremost, I think a book that chronicles the history and evolution of the TMNT franchise is long overdue. But such a book would also be way for the casual fan to understand why Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady will never be seen in another new TMNT project.

And finally, there reallyreally needs to be a regular, on-going comic book that has the intention of at least trying to appeal to the masses. Make it it's own universe (I know, we really don't need more, but I can't think of how else it could work short of Peter wiping out Volume 4, and I don't see that happening), hire some NEW guys to work on it full-time, and publish it monthly. Dare I even say color?

I know a lot of people aren't happy with how WB marketed the film, but the more I think about it, the more I think Mirage could have helped them out a little more, too. And I know all of this is easiler said than done, and for all I know Mirage did consider ideas along these lines, but like the title says, I'm just throwing out some thoughts.

*Warhorse* · 04-12-2007, 06:10 PM

This would be a great start! When they were selling the novelization for the movie, it would have been excellent marketing to have the original comics in a stand next to the novels, with the (AND CHECK OUT THE COMICS THAT STARTED IT ALL!)

Or maybe people really did think this movie was going to be easy money.

*ToTheNines* · 04-12-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

And finally, there reallyreally needs to be a regular, on-going comic book that has the intention of at least trying to appeal to the masses. Make it it's own universe (I know, we really don't need more, but I can't think of how else it could work short of Peter wiping out Volume 4, and I don't see that happening), hire some NEW guys to work on it full-time, and publish it monthly. Dare I even say color?

Dreamwave was doing just that.

*Roseangelo* · 04-12-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Dreamwave was doing just that.

The Dreamwave series was based on the 2K3 series, lasted all of 7 issues, and was cancelled what, three years ago? How is this helpful in the here and now?

*ToTheNines* · 04-12-2007, 06:55 PM

Thats why I said "was". It could have been good for the TMNT, it could have been the OT's Archie.

*Roseangelo* · 04-12-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Thats why I said "was". It could have been good for the TMNT, it could have been the OT's Archie.

Ah, gotcha. I had actually hoped the same thing for that series.

jignat · 04-12-2007, 07:11 PM

All i have to say is that if TMNT was a marvel/dc property, we would be seeing reprints/tpbs , a lot of new comic stuff out the wazoo.

I have a feeling that Pete was either concentrated on the story/production aspects of the movie that maybe he thought(or other mirage bigwigs) that just doing a couple of prequel comics would be enough promotion.

Heck im not a newbie to tmnt and im upset lol. and i can tell you that my friends who always ask me about the comics dont want the hassle of ebayin/searching every comic store just to find some issues.

I fI were Laird, i would have made a dedicated online store a la amazon just for the various vol 1, 2 4 comics .
I would have just made 3 trades.
Trade 1-1-5, raph one shot
Trade 2= 6,7,9,10,11,leo issue
trade 3- return to ny, mike and don one shots
and had them available to all the major retailers before the film hit.

and if those did well, a city at war series of trades (2)

Along with some posters by Laird, dooney, Farley, Lawson, etc

I agree with rose's "ultimate guide to" . It should be done by Laird, Murphy , Dan Berger, or Ryan Brown

*ToTheNines* · 04-12-2007, 07:13 PM

I guess it's all due to being an underground company.

*Kunoichi_Haruko* · 04-12-2007, 07:14 PM

Yeah, perhaps Mirage is too independent for its own good...

*ToTheNines* · 04-12-2007, 07:17 PM

Makes me wonder if the comics even make any money, the TMNT have a fairly big following here at the 'Drome, but not everyone here is a comic buyer. Either they're still rich from all the money they made in the 90's, or TMNT comics are on a very low budget.

*Roseangelo* · 04-12-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunoichi_Haruko

Yeah, perhaps Mirage is too independent for its own good...

That's kind of along the lines of what I've been thinking. I love that they're a small (extremely small) company in charge of this world-famous franchise, but I don't think it'd hurt them to bring on a few more hands to open the door for more possibilities. I honestly think Peter is trying to do too much all by himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Makes me wonder if the comics even make any money, the TMNT have a fairly big following here at the 'Drome, but not everyone here is a comic buyer. Either they're still rich from all the money they made in the 90's, or TMNT comics are on a very low budget.

According to comments Peter made in the back of Volume 4, the comic was not making money. I don't know how the numbers are for Tales, but it seems to also have a low distribution rate.

syk_skillz · 04-12-2007, 07:51 PM

Kinda off topic but why do I keep dreaming Marvel buys the rights to TMNT all month when I don't even read the comics? O_o

*CyberCubed* · 04-12-2007, 09:16 PM

I think a problem with your theory is the comic sales have never been good since the "restart" in 2001.

In one of the letters pages of Volume 4, Peter Laird said the book never made a profit, but he continues to do it since its important to him. Dan Berger also said in an e-mail that Tales might also go on a "hiatus" of sorts after 2007 because apparently that book doesn't make much of a profit either. And I can see why they'd be losing more on a monthly book than Volume 4 which was bi-monthly.

As said, the Dreamwave series was cancelled after only 7 issues, presumedly because it wasn't selling and Dreamwave themselves were in financial trouble.

Technically I think ANOTHER "relaunch" of the comic is a bad move. Both Volume 4 and Tales showcase the Turtles as proper relaunches, but neither has sold all that well.

Lastly, the movie did poorly probably because of the poor reviews so people didn't go see it. Just check rottentomatoes, almost all the movie critics tore it apart. There's a VERY good chance that casual TMNT fans were going to see the movie but decided against it by the reviews. That's something a lot of people here haven't thought about.

*ToTheNines* · 04-12-2007, 09:23 PM

The movie did not do poorly, it wasn't a blockbuster by any means, but I certainly think of it as a financial success.

*Warhorse* · 04-12-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

The movie did not do poorly, it wasn't a blockbuster by any means, but I certainly think of it as a financial success.

Percentage wise, when comparing the production cost and profits reeped back, how well are the Turtles standing compared to Superman Returns? I'm not talking in the actual numbers, but by percentage of profits over production?

And the Turtles isn't considered another Waterworld either, right?

*CyberCubed* · 04-12-2007, 09:44 PM

The movie cost 34 mil to make and right now they're at around 47mil in the box office, so they only made about 13mil in profit.

For reference the first movie made 135mil and the second movie made 88mil. The current movie may not even break 60mil at the rate its going.

*Warhorse* · 04-12-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The movie cost 34 mil to make and right now they're at around 47mil in the box office, so they only made about 13mil in profit.

For reference the first movie made 135mil and the second movie made 88mil. The current movie may not even break 60mil at the rate its going.

Is this domestic or world?

*CyberCubed* · 04-12-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Is this domestic or world?

Domestic, its only sales in the U.S.

*Shark_Blade* · 04-12-2007, 10:04 PM

I'm sure we'll get a sequeal. Has anyone seen House of The Dead? It's deem the most terrible horror movie,getting 0 (yes,zero) marks for reviews yet it still get a sequeal.

*Warhorse* · 04-12-2007, 10:06 PM

Yeah, and there is always the potential for the dvd to do well, especially if it has deleted scenes restored in it. And everyone knows Fantastic Four is getting a sequel since the dvd's sold so well!

Where there's a will, there's a way!

04-12-2007, 07:14 PM	#9
Kunoichi_Haruko A shell of a good hit! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Richmond, Va. Posts: 1,685	Yeah, perhaps Mirage is too independent for its own good... __________________

04-12-2007, 07:51 PM	#12
syk_skillz Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2004 Location: Flint, Michigan Posts: 248	Kinda off topic but why do I keep dreaming Marvel buys the rights to TMNT all month when I don't even read the comics? O_o __________________

04-12-2007, 06:05 PM	#1
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,116	The New Movie And Marketing In the wake of the new movie's initial opening weekend success followed by box office numbers that declined far too fast for anyone's liking, I've had a lot of thoughts running around in my head about how the movie might have been even just a little more successful or, at least, more well-received. If you're going to make a movie based on characters' comic book roots, a person should be able to walk into a comic book store and find those roots. I know Peter has no plans to reprint anything from Volume 1 canon before he can go and retone/reletter everything, but it would have been reallyreally smart business sense to have a reprint of Collected Book #1 readily available in every comic book shop, book store, AND Amazon.com at the time of the movie's release. There are three existing editions of this book and all three of them have been selling on eBay for crazy prices that often breach $100 (and IMO only the hardcover version has been selling at a price fair to what it's actually worth). I know I would love to get at least two more copies of this book for myself (one to have as a personal reading copy and one to keep aside for my nephew until he gets old enough to read it), but I'm not willing to pay more than cover price. If someone who refuses to like a TMNT movie because Shredder and Krang aren't in it were able to walk into a Borders store and discover that Turtles didn't need recurring villians, some minds might be opened and some opinions might be changed. As it is, the TPBs that Mirage has recently published aren't carried by any bookstores and CAN'T be ordered. I have a friend who works at B&N who tried to order them using the ISBN numbers, but the books weren't to be found in the system AT ALL. What's up with that? They're also not on Amazon. One of the critic complaints I saw more than once for the movie was that it was just another mindless vehicle to sell action figures. Now, you and I know that's not (completely) true, but can you see any solid, actual evidence that that's not the case? There really aren't any products marketed for adults. And I don't even mean ultra-hardcore violent Turtles who swear and drink beer. Reprinting the old comic books would be a start, but I really think there could be a market for adult novels like there are for Star Trek and Star Wars, as well as several comic book properties and other media tie-ins. I also think that there needs to be an "Ultimate Guide to:" book published by DK, like there is for every other comic book franchise that has had a movie in recent years. Foremost, I think a book that chronicles the history and evolution of the TMNT franchise is long overdue. But such a book would also be way for the casual fan to understand why Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady will never be seen in another new TMNT project. And finally, there reallyreally needs to be a regular, on-going comic book that has the intention of at least trying to appeal to the masses. Make it it's own universe (I know, we really don't need more, but I can't think of how else it could work short of Peter wiping out Volume 4, and I don't see that happening), hire some NEW guys to work on it full-time, and publish it monthly. Dare I even say color? I know a lot of people aren't happy with how WB marketed the film, but the more I think about it, the more I think Mirage could have helped them out a little more, too. And I know all of this is easiler said than done, and for all I know Mirage did consider ideas along these lines, but like the title says, I'm just throwing out some thoughts. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

04-12-2007, 06:10 PM	#2
Warhorse Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,544	This would be a great start! When they were selling the novelization for the movie, it would have been excellent marketing to have the original comics in a stand next to the novels, with the (AND CHECK OUT THE COMICS THAT STARTED IT ALL!) Or maybe people really did think this movie was going to be easy money.

04-12-2007, 06:55 PM	#5
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,279	Thats why I said "was". It could have been good for the TMNT, it could have been the OT's Archie.

04-12-2007, 07:11 PM	#7
jignat Foot Soldier Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 161	All i have to say is that if TMNT was a marvel/dc property, we would be seeing reprints/tpbs , a lot of new comic stuff out the wazoo. I have a feeling that Pete was either concentrated on the story/production aspects of the movie that maybe he thought(or other mirage bigwigs) that just doing a couple of prequel comics would be enough promotion. Heck im not a newbie to tmnt and im upset lol. and i can tell you that my friends who always ask me about the comics dont want the hassle of ebayin/searching every comic store just to find some issues. I fI were Laird, i would have made a dedicated online store a la amazon just for the various vol 1, 2 4 comics . I would have just made 3 trades. Trade 1-1-5, raph one shot Trade 2= 6,7,9,10,11,leo issue trade 3- return to ny, mike and don one shots and had them available to all the major retailers before the film hit. and if those did well, a city at war series of trades (2) Along with some posters by Laird, dooney, Farley, Lawson, etc I agree with rose's "ultimate guide to" . It should be done by Laird, Murphy , Dan Berger, or Ryan Brown

04-12-2007, 07:13 PM	#8
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,279	I guess it's all due to being an underground company.

04-12-2007, 07:17 PM	#10
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,279	Makes me wonder if the comics even make any money, the TMNT have a fairly big following here at the 'Drome, but not everyone here is a comic buyer. Either they're still rich from all the money they made in the 90's, or TMNT comics are on a very low budget.

04-12-2007, 09:16 PM	#13
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,834	I think a problem with your theory is the comic sales have never been good since the "restart" in 2001. In one of the letters pages of Volume 4, Peter Laird said the book never made a profit, but he continues to do it since its important to him. Dan Berger also said in an e-mail that Tales might also go on a "hiatus" of sorts after 2007 because apparently that book doesn't make much of a profit either. And I can see why they'd be losing more on a monthly book than Volume 4 which was bi-monthly. As said, the Dreamwave series was cancelled after only 7 issues, presumedly because it wasn't selling and Dreamwave themselves were in financial trouble. Technically I think ANOTHER "relaunch" of the comic is a bad move. Both Volume 4 and Tales showcase the Turtles as proper relaunches, but neither has sold all that well. Lastly, the movie did poorly probably because of the poor reviews so people didn't go see it. Just check rottentomatoes, almost all the movie critics tore it apart. There's a VERY good chance that casual TMNT fans were going to see the movie but decided against it by the reviews. That's something a lot of people here haven't thought about.

04-12-2007, 09:23 PM	#14
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,279	The movie did not do poorly, it wasn't a blockbuster by any means, but I certainly think of it as a financial success.

04-12-2007, 09:44 PM	#16
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,834	The movie cost 34 mil to make and right now they're at around 47mil in the box office, so they only made about 13mil in profit. For reference the first movie made 135mil and the second movie made 88mil. The current movie may not even break 60mil at the rate its going.

04-12-2007, 10:04 PM	#19
Shark_Blade Emperor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,909	I'm sure we'll get a sequeal. Has anyone seen House of The Dead? It's deem the most terrible horror movie,getting 0 (yes,zero) marks for reviews yet it still get a sequeal.

04-12-2007, 10:06 PM	#20
Warhorse Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,544	Yeah, and there is always the potential for the dvd to do well, especially if it has deleted scenes restored in it. And everyone knows Fantastic Four is getting a sequel since the dvd's sold so well! Where there's a will, there's a way!