What did you think of Leo/Radical and Casey/Karai being pushed?

[CyberCubed]

Aside from Casey/April, there has never been much in the way of romance or love interest plotlines in TMNT comics. It just never really happened.

Yet in one issue of Tales, we see future/old Leo and Radical are in love. I hate Turtle/human relationships, so its a shame to see something like that in canon. Also the fact that Radical of all characters falls for Leo, feels absurd, given they barely had any noticeable interaction before. I find it disgusting. Oh well, at least Complete Carnage broke her neck and killed her! Haha!

And then recently in Volume 4, there is indication Karai may have slept with Casey while he was drunk. Don't know if this is what PL intended, but given how long it takes for Vol. 4 to come out we may not know the true answer for awhile.

What is the point of this? TMNT has never been a soap opera before. On PL's blog, Peter Laird commented how the Spock and Uhura romance added nothing to the story and was pointless, yet this feels the same.

[DrSpengler]

"Swan Song" is the absolute low point of TMNT fiction, at least in regards to Mirage canon. Everything about that story is dispicable. The relationship between Leo and Radical is absurdly forced. They hardly ever interacted in issues prior and not even a shred of romantic tension was ever exhibited in any of those stories.

Its as if the writer of "Swan Song" basically began with, "I want Leo to f*** a human. What female humans do they know besides April? Just Radical? Okay, there we go".

And the art is some of THE MOST amateurish stuff I've ever seen in print. The story was as embarassing to look at as it was to read.

I absolutely despise "Swan Song". It reads like the worst kind of fangirl-penned random shipping fiction. I cannot believe Mirage even entertained the story pitch, let alone went through with publishing it.

It is my vote for the worst Mirage Turtles story ever written. Yes, even worse than the issue where April f***s a cockroach and finds out that she's a magic doodle brought to life.



As for Casey/Karai? Its vague, but possible. At that point in the narrative, April had ditched Casey to "find herself" and anything could have happened when someone's feeling that down. Likely just one more issue they'll have to work through once they reunite.

[Cipher]

Am I the only one who really digs "Swan Song"? Do people just get hung up on Leo/Radical and quit reading the issue?

Leo and Radical is wierd and forced, but it's the focus of the story for ... what, three pages? After that it's a vengeance story. There was nothing particularly distasteful about Leo and Radical either. It's a post-alien Earth. Wierd, and probably not something I'd have written, but you get over it.

But seriously, the strangeness of Leo/Radical is the only thing I can fault the issue for. Leo's conflict over revenge is perfectly in line with the character that's been developing since "City at War." I can easily believe this is a Leo who has been through the moral conundrums of Volume 2, "Blind Faith," and "Scars." Adds a nice twist on what is otherwise a standard but competent vengeance story.

And the art? God forbid someone actually use black-and-white contrast to some effect. And Complete Carnage has never looked more menacing. There's been better, but there's been much worse.

It is my vote for the worst Mirage Turtles story ever written.

You've read the entire Mirage catalogue and this was your pick for worst? Seriously? Regardless of how much you hate the issue, they've published some serious sh*t over the last 25 years.

Yes, even worse than the issue where April f***s a cockroach and finds out that she's a magic doodle brought to life.

See, now I know you're just getting hung up on plot points rather than actually judging the issues.

I'm still not big on the whole "April is a drawing" thing. But that issue itself is wonderful. Lawson's art fits the tone, it handles the most surreal turn of events ever in a slow-burn, down-to-earth way, etc. It's as disturbing as it tries to be. Hate the revelation, not the way it was revealed. #22 is the best issue of Volume 4.

[Powder]

I feel that theres no harm in the turtles finding love, even if it is with humans because lord knows who else they may find. Anyhow radical is a poor choice. As for karai, I can see it. Them ninja broads are feisty! I'm somewhat indifferent to it all though really... its not my story to write. I may not agree with everything that happens but with these comics pete plays god & if thats what god wants, thats what he'll do.

[Oculus Orbus]

Let's not forget about Mikey, he might have kids! I'm sure he's not the father, but still, he had something with Seri. That was kind of... odd, at least.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

Hate the revelation, not the way it was revealed. #22 is the best issue of Volume 4.

Agreed, but still.... WHY IN THE FU*K DID THEY HAVE HER FU*K OTHER ROACHES?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Agreed, but still.... WHY IN THE FU*K DID THEY HAVE HER FU*K OTHER ROACHES?

To drive home the surrealness and horror of what they saw. It was just to express the fact that months passed, to the point where they fell into regular roach routine.

Honestly, that's probably one of the least disturbing parts of the story.

[ToTheNines]

Not for me lol I think I'm gonna mark that part out with a sharpie.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

You've read the entire Mirage catalogue and this was your pick for worst? Seriously? Regardless of how much you hate the issue, they've published some serious sh*t over the last 25 years.

Hm, I can think of a number of specials that were bad, "Times Pipeline," "The Maltease Turtle," a few Vol. 1 guest issues like the "Spaced Out" trilogy, but what are you referring to?

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Agreed, but still.... WHY IN THE FU*K DID THEY HAVE HER FU*K OTHER ROACHES?

C'mon, we've all done it once or twice...

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Hm, I can think of a number of specials that were bad, "Times Pipeline," "The Maltease Turtle," a few Vol. 1 guest issues like the "Spaced Out" trilogy, but what are you referring to?

Hey, hey, don't hate on Hedden and McWeeney.

Going back through the catalogue, I guess there's actually not a whole lot I hate. It's just that there are a handful of issues I know I'm comfortable reading once and then never ever going back to. Usually for them being wholly uninteresting or, important plot points aside, being really badly written ("Mined Games", anyone?). A servicable "old Leo gets revenge on Complete Carnage" story just can't fall anywhere near the bottom of the pile for me.

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

It is my vote for the worst Mirage Turtles story ever written. Yes, even worse than the issue where April f***s a cockroach and finds out that she's a magic doodle brought to life.

Thanks for that, I needed a laugh. I agree that this seems like a very contrived plot point for the sake of shipping a turtle, the fact that it was blindsided on us and did not hold much weight makes it a strange choice for an issue. But I do like the artwork, it reminds me of lino block print. Very cool.
I guess I can 'ignore' this canon in my mind, as I often employ the hear/see/speak no evil so that my own twisted version of the truth keeps me happy.
One thing I do not like is the possibility of the Casey/Karai hookup...no, just...no. Steak knife in the heart (of April). But maybe it's just an eye for an eye thing, after all she did do that cockroach that one time...

[discordiatookie]

I personally think that nothing happened 'tween Casey and Karai. He was trashed and ended up back at hers, slept it off and couldn't remember if anything had happened. Karai is just keeping quiet, perhaps for some leverage or something in the future. That's my view, anyway...

As for the Leo and Radical thing - doesn't really bother me. It was an okay issue, had some cool moments in it, and I personally really like the artwork.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

Am I the only one who really digs "Swan Song"? Do people just get hung up on Leo/Radical and quit reading the issue?

Leo and Radical is wierd and forced, but it's the focus of the story for ... what, three pages? After that it's a vengeance story. There was nothing particularly distasteful about Leo and Radical either. It's a post-alien Earth. Wierd, and probably not something I'd have written, but you get over it.

I loathe that they "went there" with the human-Turtle pairing but I accepted it and moved on with the issue.

And I'm glad, because the issue itself was pretty cool. I dig the art style there, too.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I loathe that they "went there" with the human-Turtle pairing but I accepted it and moved on with the issue.

And I'm glad, because the issue itself was pretty cool. I dig the art style there, too.

Completely agreed.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

I didn't think Leo and Radical coupling was forced, or weird, or anything like that, actually. It caught me off guard, because I always thought that was the kind of thing for fan-fiction.

Now, Casey and Karai? THAT felt forced and weird.

[Andrew NDB]

I do guarantee you this issue was during that period of time that Laird wasn't personally signing off on scripts.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I do guarantee you this issue was during that period of time that Laird wasn't personally signing off on scripts.

Do you care enough to try and get that verified?

[jaymq]

Maybe I read through it too fast, but I never got the impression Karai and Casey boinked. And I feel it'd be horribly OOC anyway.

I don't have anything against the Radial/Leo thing though, but I'm not a big Lawson fan anyway. So I only skimmed through it at best, I liked the end though.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by moosandra

I don't have anything against the Radial/Leo thing though, but I'm not a big Lawson fan anyway. So I only skimmed through it at best, I liked the end though.

Wasn't Lawson, 'twas Dumais.