Stuff from Mirage you didn't like...

[Logan]

Most of us here are fans of the original comics, myself included. That being said, there are things that Eastman and Laird did in the comic that I didn't necessarily like for various reasons.

Here's a couple of mine:

1. Splinter mimicking martial arts as a normal rat. Even for a reality as fantastical as the Turtles', it seems too much.

2. Making April turn out to be a drawing. Not that it wasn't an interesting twist, I just thought it took away from the realism of her character.

3. Having other super heroes. That's the equivalent of the OT having a plethora of mutants. It made the Turtles less unique and took some of the grittiness out of the comic world.

4. Leaving Image out of continuity.

5. Bringing the Shredder back as a shark. To me, that was a serious kick to the gonads. If I'm getting the Shredder, bring me the Shredder. Don't cop out on me by having his consciousness transferred to a shark.

I'll post more if I can think of any.

[Samhain]

I'll have to think more but off the top off my head I really hated the Superhero thing in the comics. I agree it did make the turtles seem a bit ''less special''.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Logan

5. Bringing the Shredder back as a shark. To me, that was a serious kick to the gonads. If I'm getting the Shredder, bring me the Shredder. Don't cop out on me by having his consciousness transferred to a shark.

Read that issue again, it wasn't Shredder, it merely thought it was.


As for me, I'd just say the rather loose continuity in the middle, and the fact that both Volume 2 and 4 felt really drawn out with not much happening for a while.

When you actually stop to think about it, not much has really happened in the Mirage universe. Kind of strange considering it went on for 25 years.

[rufus]

Normal rat splinter mimicking martial arts is the only one I have since I have not read many of the comics. Just a scatter bunch of vol1,2,3

I'm not well versed in the Mirage comics and only have a about a few of the vol 1 issues. Which issue does shark shredder appear?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by rufus

I'm not well versed in the Mirage comics and only have a about a few of the vol 1 issues. Which issue does shark shredder appear?

Tales of the TMNT V. 2 issues #3 and 4.

[rufus]

Thank you.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by rufus

Normal rat splinter mimicking martial arts is the only one I have since I have not read many of the comics. Just a scatter bunch of vol1,2,3

I'm not well versed in the Mirage comics and only have a about a few of the vol 1 issues. Which issue does shark shredder appear?

I'm not either so don't worry. I do know what your looknig for though is Tales of TMNT vol.2 #3 and #4. The worms that made up Shredder in his second and third outing came back this time possessing a shark. Take a look at your LCS's back issue bin. It may be there depending on how well stocked it is.


I would have liked to have seen more Shredder and not have him offed after Return To New York and have Rat King also be somewhat reoccuring instead of killed off between his only alive appearance and his two or three ghost appearances.

[Powder]

I hated that they had red bandanas and then suddenly switched to colored masks. Oh no wait that's IDW.

[Donnie]

The only thing about Mirage I didn't like were the pointless wastes of paper that were some of those in-between Volume 1 issues. Ya know, the one with Raph holding the cow and running from aliens. I block out the names of who did those 3 issues. Not only is the art appalling, but the stories...ugh.

[Andrew NDB]

Logan and I share a lot of the same quibbles.

Originally Posted by Logan

1. Splinter mimicking martial arts as a normal rat. Even for a reality as fantastical as the Turtles', it seems too much.

More specifically, I don't like that they never told the story they admitted pondering that would reveal how Splinter wasn't a normal rat to begin with to make the as-seen origin story plausible.

2. Making April turn out to be a drawing. Not that it wasn't an interesting twist, I just thought it took away from the realism of her character.

I actually really enjoy the story where the reveal of this happened... however, I don't like that this revelation didn't really "go" anywhere. "She was a drawing," and then there's virtually no character arc for her afterward. Doesn't seem like there was much in the way of a plan for her beyond the big twist.

4. Leaving Image out of continuity.

Or more specifically, taking it out of continuity when it was already firmly a part of it. Though at least Laird did nothing to directly contradict it after the fact.

5. Bringing the Shredder back as a shark. To me, that was a serious kick to the gonads. If I'm getting the Shredder, bring me the Shredder. Don't cop out on me by having his consciousness transferred to a shark.

Yeah, I loathe the Shredder Shark and "Worms of Madness" angle. It was a good story, but I can't get behind the way it seemed to be dead-set on retroactively de-Oroku Saki-ing from "Return to New York" some twenty years after the fact. That was no worm monster they fought in that, that was Saki... his biology at the time only the instrument of his resurrection, and ultimately unimportant.

What else do I not like... I don't like the loosening of the creative reins to the degree we saw between Return to New York and City at War (though admittedly this DID lead to some very classic and definitive stories).

I don't like the Cowboys of Moo Mesa.

I don't like that there never really seemed to be a coherent direction in Vol. 2. I also don't like its pacing.

I don't like Vol. 4's pacing.

I don't like the stepping away from duotones mid-way in Vol. 4.

I don't like the lack of duotones in Vol. 3. Should've been in color, or if in black and white, then do the duotones or don't bother with the B&W, I say (and still say).

Originally Posted by rufus

I'm not well versed in the Mirage comics and only have a about a few of the vol 1 issues. Which issue does shark shredder appear?

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Tales of the TMNT V. 2 issues #3 and 4.

And #33.

[Jester]

I'm also not a huge fan of some of the "Guest Artist" issues. The tone of those issues is all over the place, and some are just laughably bad.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Logan

4. Leaving Image out of continuity.

Peter Laird ignoring the Image story line in volume 4 was the absolute most respectful thing he could have done.

Volume 3 deserved a conclusion on the terms of its own creative team, if Pete tried to continue it or ingrain its elements and characters into his own book years later, it would have been highly controversial and probably a crisis.

By making volume 4 take place several years ahead of the old stories, it allowed readers to fill in the gap with their imagination or ignore volume 3 as they saw fit. And I'd like to see anyone point out one single thing that volume 4 does that directly contradicts volume 3. Since Pete played it the way he did, we're now getting a semi-official conclusion that ties the whole thing together.

Be thankful.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I don't like that there never really seemed to be a coherent direction in Vol. 2. I also don't like its pacing.

I don't like Vol. 4's pacing.

This is exactly what I meant when I said it feels like "not much really happens" in the Mirage universe.

If you remove all those non-canon guest issues from Vol. 1, you actually realize the Mirage universe is honestly quite small. Nothing really happens outside of a few arcs and Vol. 2 and 4 are just stories that get stretched out for no reason.

I feel as if the Tales V. 2 really saved the Mirage universe, because we got 70 issues out of it that plugged in a lot of plotholes and loose ends, while also giving us some fresh new material. The only problem with it was the gang wars story went nowhere.

[Donnie]

Alright, I guess I'm not as up on my Mirage as I thought. What the heck happened with April? She's a DRAWING? Huh?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Donnie

Alright, I guess I'm not as up on my Mirage as I thought. What the heck happened with April? She's a DRAWING? Huh?

Have you read the original Donatello special? Remember Kirby's magic pen with the crystal that brought sh*t to life?

Well, the crystal had a previous owner -- April's dad.

Actually a very effective, poignant story. My only gripe is, again, that there was no discernible payoff from it down the line.

[Donnie]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Have you read the original Donatello special? Remember Kirby's magic pen with the crystal that brought sh*t to life?

Well, the crystal had a previous owner -- April's dad.

Actually a very effective, poignant story. My only gripe is, again, that there was no discernible payoff from it down the line.

Thanks! Wow. Holy crap! Yeah I have the Donnie one-shot. Was this revealed in V.4? I don't have a lot of the later issues of V.4, I have up until about #19 or so then randoms of the later books...

[Fugitoid Jones]

Originally Posted by Logan

1. Splinter mimicking martial arts as a normal rat. Even for a reality as fantastical as the Turtles', it seems too much.

2. Making April turn out to be a drawing. Not that it wasn't an interesting twist, I just thought it took away from the realism of her character.

3. Having other super heroes. That's the equivalent of the OT having a plethora of mutants. It made the Turtles less unique and took some of the grittiness out of the comic world.

The reason why I don't mind Splinter mimicking martials arts as a normal rat, is because it occured in the first issue, and that issue's original intentions was to be a parody, so a rat practicing martial arts is part of the comedy, I suppose.

I agree with you on the super heroes, but I agree with you more about April being revealed to be a drawing. I hated that with a passion. That pretty much leaves the only friends the Turtles have that aren't special in some fantastic way are Casey and Shadow, and if Peter had his way, I'm sure they would've been revealed to be sleeper Triceraton agents in disguise.

[Metropoliskid41]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Logan and I share a lot of the same quibbles.



More specifically, I don't like that they never told the story they admitted pondering that would reveal how Splinter wasn't a normal rat to begin with to make the as-seen origin story plausible.



I actually really enjoy the story where the reveal of this happened... however, I don't like that this revelation didn't really "go" anywhere. "She was a drawing," and then there's virtually no character arc for her afterward. Doesn't seem like there was much in the way of a plan for her beyond the big twist.



Or more specifically, taking it out of continuity when it was already firmly a part of it. Though at least Laird did nothing to directly contradict it after the fact.



Yeah, I loathe the Shredder Shark and "Worms of Madness" angle. It was a good story, but I can't get behind the way it seemed to be dead-set on retroactively de-Oroku Saki-ing from "Return to New York" some twenty years after the fact. That was no worm monster they fought in that, that was Saki... his biology at the time only the instrument of his resurrection, and ultimately unimportant.

What else do I not like... I don't like the loosening of the creative reins to the degree we saw between Return to New York and City at War (though admittedly this DID lead to some very classic and definitive stories).

I don't like the Cowboys of Moo Mesa.

I don't like that there never really seemed to be a coherent direction in Vol. 2. I also don't like its pacing.

I don't like Vol. 4's pacing.

I don't like the stepping away from duotones mid-way in Vol. 4.

I don't like the lack of duotones in Vol. 3. Should've been in color, or if in black and white, then do the duotones or don't bother with the B&W, I say (and still say).





And #33.

I agree with pretty much everything Andrew said here word for word, except the COWboy of Moo Mesa. I actually really enjoyed all of the issues they pop up in Tales vol. 2. Now I wouldn't want them constantly appearing, but I thought their team-up with the Turtles every couple of issues made for a fun story and really reminded me of how much I loved watching the Moo Mesa cartoon as a kid and playing the arcade game back in the day. I guess its just nostalgia but I thought it was a nice touch connecting those 2 universes.

[marcelangelo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Peter Laird ignoring the Image story line in volume 4 was the absolute most respectful thing he could have done.

Volume 3 deserved a conclusion on the terms of its own creative team, if Pete tried to continue it or ingrain its elements and characters into his own book years later, it would have been highly controversial and probably a crisis.

By making volume 4 take place several years ahead of the old stories, it allowed readers to fill in the gap with their imagination or ignore volume 3 as they saw fit. And I'd like to see anyone point out one single thing that volume 4 does that directly contradicts volume 3. Since Pete played it the way he did, we're now getting a semi-official conclusion that ties the whole thing together.

Be thankful.

I think alike you on this topic, tothenines!...so I always looked at this as a necessity and that it was NOT a move by pete intended to be critical about the image comics(which were great, no matter what you may think of the injuries..)

I also didn't know that april was a drawing of her father..wow!now in what issue was that revealed I wonder...I always was interested in how things played out with april and her father once I would have ALL the turtles comics(that day is far away for me by the way) just from the glimpses we learrned in the early issues(issue three for example) with her dad being sick and her caring about him...then from summaries I learned that we get to know more of her family situation in city at war when she is moving west to her sister(what's the deal with her?a drawing, too??was kirby a drawing??)
on the mimicking thing, I never bothered that one too much...If someone was to discuss this with me I would have assumed that rat splinter only mimicked human motion as good as a rat could but that this creature had grasped the teachings and philosophy of martial arts by being exposed to his master's training and execution of it...you know just being present while a loved human does something extreme(martila arts)...so I was never waiting with a letter of outrage and steam comming out of my ears when I read that part in the book...many of these 'problems' remind me of the simpsons episode with the itchy and scratchy fans and pootchie the dog....hahaha

[Toby Barrett]

Originally Posted by Fugitoid Jones

--and if Peter had his way, I'm sure they would've been revealed to be sleeper Triceraton agents in disguise.

... Oh my god, that would have been hilarious!