thoughts on JUST Splinter's reincartnation?

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Hey, I know there was a thread about the Turtle's new Reincarnation angle in their origin, but I was wondering how people felt about the new angle of Splinter being the reincarnation of Hamato Yoshi? I think it is a perfect update to the OT's Yoshi to splinter mutation, and does away with the silly 'rat mimicking moves in a cage angle. Also, it ups the tragedy of Tang Shen's death for Splinter (instead of being his dead master's wife, it's his own wife he's remembering). And Puts Yoshi back in feudal Japan, the golden age of the ninja, instead of the modern world.

So, what does everyone else think?

[Lampy]

I'm actually okay with the idea. Like you said, it's an updated version of the OT Splinter. But this version makes his revenge on Shredder that much more personal. The idea of Splinter once being Yoshi is nothing new to go crazy about.

[Sage Ninja]

whoa! For real? Someone explain this to me I haven't been following the comics.

[Lampy]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

whoa! For real? Someone explain this to me I haven't been following the comics.

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Just asking.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

whoa! For real? Someone explain this to me I haven't been following the comics.

Splinter is the reincarnation of Hamato Yoshi, a ninja from feudal Japan. He was friends with Oroku Saki, a fellow ninja in the Foot clan. But when Yoshi refused to kill innocents, Saki felt he had betrayed the clan, and killed Yoshi's wife, Tang Shen. Yoshi then went on the run with his four sons, teaching them ninjitsu as they fled. Shredder finally caught up with them, and executed the boys in front of Yoshi's eyes. Yoshi prayed to Buddha that he and his children would be reunited one day to have their revenge on the Shredder. Centuries later, they were reborn as the four turtles and a rat, who would go on to be mutated into splinter and the TMNT.

[CyberCubed]

I just wonder how Yoshi knew he would be reincarnated as a rat 500 years later and his sons would all be turtles in the same pet shop.

I hope this is further explored later on.

[Toby Barrett]

Splinter said in issue six he didn't know why they were reincarnated into what they are, but he also says he doesn't believe it matters.

[Lampy]

Splinter said all he remembered was having a blade go through his neck and the next thing he saw after that he was in the lab with the four pre-mutated turtles. At that point he knew those were his children. He knew his prayers of a second chance had been answered.

[Candy Kappa]

i think the IDW origin removes one of the things I liked about the turtles, that they where created by chance, a accident. Similar like other comic book characters like The Hulk, Spider-Man and Daredevil etc etc.

But it's interesting enough, and it is a new story and a different continuity, so it's good they bring something different then other versions. But I do hope there is more to this reincarnation angle then just being straight up as it's implied.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I just wonder how Yoshi knew he would be reincarnated as a rat 500 years later and his sons would all be turtles in the same pet shop.

I believe it's just fate.

[Jephael]

At first I wasn't too keen on the whole reincarnation angle, but I really like it now. It's a fresh take on the origin story.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

i think the IDW origin removes one of the things I liked about the turtles, that they where created by chance, a accident. Similar like other comic book characters like The Hulk, Spider-Man and Daredevil etc etc.

But it's interesting enough, and it is a new story and a different continuity, so it's good they bring something different then other versions. But I do hope there is more to this reincarnation angle then just being straight up as it's implied.

I partially agree with the Turtles, but I' talking JUST Splinter/Yoshi in this thread. And while there may be more to the reincatnation thing with the turles, the way it's set up and the dynamic with the Shredder, I really think Yoshi Splinter is what it appears to be.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

i think the IDW origin removes one of the things I liked about the turtles, that they where created by chance, a accident. Similar like other comic book characters like The Hulk, Spider-Man and Daredevil etc etc.

I've seen some people mention this, including Peter Laird (though it may be because he mentioned that he hasn't read all the issues yet), and I'm a little perplexed by this sentiment. How were the turtles' mutation not an accident in IDW? They were never meant to be mutated, as far as we know. The Foot ninja dropped the turtles and the mutagen when Splinter attacked him.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

I've seen some people mention this, including Peter Laird (though it may be because he mentioned that he hasn't read all the issues yet), and I'm a little perplexed by this sentiment. How were the turtles' mutation not an accident in IDW? They were never meant to be mutated, as far as we know. The Foot ninja dropped the turtles and the mutagen when Splinter attacked him.

yet they are together, reincarnated father as a rat and all his four sons reincarnated as turtles. Bought by the same company for research.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

yet they are together, reincarnated father as a rat and all his four sons reincarnated as turtles. Bought by the same company for research.

It's true that Splinter and his turtles did not become a family by accident, but they became as we know them, mutants, by accident. I'm not necessarily defending it, because I've said many times that I am still holding out hope that the turtles were not reincarnated and brought back by fate, but their mutation was definitely an accident. You could say it was fate that caused the accident, but the same could be said about any of the turtles' origins for such a serendipitous chain of events to occur that would cause their mutation.

[Candy Kappa]

still, with the reincarnation angle, it makes the mutation spill seem less accidental and more fate, or divine intervention by some deity if the reincarnation is of magical nature.

If splinter was granted a second chance, why aren't his sons at least the same species, where's the wife in the whole picture. She didn't reincarnate, did she move on? Why did Splinter get his chance so far into the future, wouldn't it be more suitable if he reincarnated right after his death, so he could get retribution.

at the moment it is now, it is way too complicated and makes little sense. but I'll take this over the cowardice of FW Splinter have displayed about retaking the Foot from Shredder and brin it back to honor.

[Plasticplayhouse]

I prefer the original beginning, but this one is ok too. It works for the story.

[Sage Ninja]

so how does Shredder work in all of this? Was he reincarnated? Does he even have any memory of his past life of being an evil prick? I find this all facinating.

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Just asking.

I'm not sure what to make of your question. I haven't been following the new comics. I've read very little of the mirage comics, my exposure of the turtles has been through the cartoons and movies.

[Cryomancer]

Regarding "why are they rat/turtles this time", there is the whole concept of being reincarnated as "lesser beings" that I am not actually sure is part of any actual religion but comes up as an idea in pop culture sometimes. Like where you are a jerk in your previous human life so next time you end up as a bug. Perhaps it was a cosmic punishment.

If the mutation is and intentional part of their fate, there have also been instances in TMNT history where being a rat/turtle provided them with an edge versus human opponents, better sense of smell, shells as natural armor, etc. So maybe the cosmos has taken them to the time and situation to enact their revenge successfully.

I imagine Tang Shen's reincarnation status is likely either 1) something that they are hanging onto for a future reveal / storyline, or more likely 2) she was not filled with the urge for revenge as they were and therefore accepted her death. There could be a post-revenge arc of Splinter dealing with the realization that his revenge does not bring him any closer to her. Or maybe Yoshi's prayer being answered / reincarnation / mutation will end up being the work of some angry revenge god and Tang Shen wasn't part of the deal, because she was the motivation of the revenge, who knows.

[Galactus]

Of all the new twists to the mythos the reincarnation angle is the only one I care for as it actualy serves a purpose of giving a more plausible explanation of why a rat knows ninjitsu. In fact the issue that detailed it all is the only issue that I can say I really liked. I'd prefer it was just Splinter that was reincarnated but it seems unlikely if Leonardo is starting to remember the face of his mother.

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

so how does Shredder work in all of this? Was he reincarnated? Does he even have any memory of his past life of being an evil prick? I find this all facinating.

We don't know yet, the series is building up the confrontation with the Shredder. It seems likely that reincarnation will play a part either that or he's found a way to survive to the 21st century.

If he is reincarnated it'd be interesting if he remembers his past life or just vague memories or intuitions like the turtles. It's pretty much stated that Splinter only remembers his previous life fully because of the experiments carried out on him when he was a lab rat for Stock Gen.

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

Regarding "why are they rat/turtles this time", there is the whole concept of being reincarnated as "lesser beings" that I am not actually sure is part of any actual religion but comes up as an idea in pop culture sometimes. Like where you are a jerk in your previous human life so next time you end up as a bug. Perhaps it was a cosmic punishment.

If the mutation is and intentional part of their fate, there have also been instances in TMNT history where being a rat/turtle provided them with an edge versus human opponents, better sense of smell, shells as natural armor, etc. So maybe the cosmos has taken them to the time and situation to enact their revenge successfully.

That's a good point. Since Yoshi was an honourable man you'd think he would be reborn as something other than a rat, regardless his sons were innocent. I suppose we're overthinking it but your explanation that being mutants gives them an edge is as good an explanation as any.

I imagine Tang Shen's reincarnation status is likely either 1) something that they are hanging onto for a future reveal / storyline, or more likely 2) she was not filled with the urge for revenge as they were and therefore accepted her death. There could be a post-revenge arc of Splinter dealing with the realization that his revenge does not bring him any closer to her. Or maybe Yoshi's prayer being answered / reincarnation / mutation will end up being the work of some angry revenge god and Tang Shen wasn't part of the deal, because she was the motivation of the revenge, who knows.

If I remember rightly Yoshi's prayer before he was murdered was that he and his sons would be together again. That being said it does seem she gets a short end of the stick if she isn't reincarnated..or maybe she's better off that way. I think that might be the best way to go instead of something like Tang Shen being Karai or Tang Shen being Old Hob.

Before reading the books I skimmed people opinions on them and I thought Shen's plea to Yoshi before she died about not seeking vengeance might be why Splinter has a no killing policy, that he was trying to fulfill her last request and potentialy break the cycle but reading it it doesn't seem that way at all. If the no killing rule applies to Shredder as well then I think it'd be a decent explanation they could use.