Is Splinter A Hero?

[Dirty Blond]

There's been an interesting discussion on the board as to whether the Turtles could be considered heroes. I think most folks who've chimed in have said no. ToTheNines said it best:

They're not the worlds most fearsome fighting team. They cut Shredder a lot of slack on several occasions. Donatello doesn't have sexual relations with machines.

They're not heroes.

But I think Splinter is a hero. He has all the goods that make him so.

[Jester]

Mirage Splinter not so much.

I think when people think heroes, especially with the Turtles, they think "Actively seek to go out and do good." which none of them do.

As for Splinter, he trained the Turtles to get revenge on his dead master. Is it heroic that he sent his kids out to start a blood feud that raged for years? Why didn't he just seek out Oroku Saki when he was younger and do the dead himself?

[MikeandRaph87]

He did not start out to be since he used the turtles as a weapon of revenge like Jester said. However, overall with all the version come and gone I think its safe to say he is a hero just like the turtles are. Are they crime fighters? Not so much but they are a unique hero and that is why I like them so much!

[Powder]

They're all heroic in many ways but they're not textbook heroes.

[Drose18]

Originally Posted by Jester

Mirage Splinter not so much.

I think when people think heroes, especially with the Turtles, they think "Actively seek to go out and do good." which none of them do.

As for Splinter, he trained the Turtles to get revenge on his dead master. Is it heroic that he sent his kids out to start a blood feud that raged for years? Why didn't he just seek out Oroku Saki when he was younger and do the dead himself?

Mirage splinter was useless for fighting mostly in volume 1. I think 2003 splinter was a much better take on the character. And I always was confused why splinter trained them for revenge. If it wasnt for splinters grudge against shredder so many innocent citizens wouldnt have died in City at War.

[Zany Orange Dude]

Originally Posted by Powder

They're all heroic in many ways but they're not textbook heroes.

Couldn't have said it any better!

[TurtleTitan97]

Can't say Mirage Splinter was a hero. The other versions are to me. Whenever the situtation calls for it, Splinter would do anything to save his sons. To me, that's what makes him a hero.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't think he's a hero in the sense that many would think. Like Jester said, he trained the Turtles to kill Saki out of revenge for his Master Yoshi. I think that a better term to describe him in the 2K3 series is overprotective parent in that he would do anything to rescue his sons.

[Candy Kappa]

Mirage Splinter trains the turtles to avenge the death of Yoshi by killing Saki.

Fred Wolf Splinter let Saki degrade the Foot Clan to criminals even thought he is the rightful heir to leadership of the clan.

4Kids Splinter and Movie Splinter is a protective father figure, training his sons in the arts of Ninjitsu to avoid detection of the outside world.

Splinter is the old wise sage, the Yoda of the TMNT universe, but he is not a hero, just like Yoda. He is a good guy, and I think there is a difference between a good guy and a hero

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Mirage Splinter trains the turtles to avenge the death of Yoshi by killing Saki.

Fred Wolf Splinter let Saki degrade the Foot Clan to criminals even thought he is the rightful heir to leadership of the clan.

4Kids Splinter and Movie Splinter is a protective father figure, training his sons in the arts of Ninjitsu to avoid detection of the outside world.

Splinter is the old wise sage, the Yoda of the TMNT universe, but he is not a hero, just like Yoda. He is a good guy, and I think there is a difference between a good guy and a hero

The Turtles are supposed to be the heroes; Splinter is just the coach.

Mirage Splinter does train his students for avenging his old master, but Shredder is (supposedly) killed in the original story. But then the comic continues as the Turtles fight with the Foot Clan and other villians, both common criminals and evil space aliens.

Fred Wolf Splinter was hardly able to take back the leadership of the Foot Clan after becoming a mutant rat. If he had tried, he would have ended up facing the Japanese equivalent of the Orkin Man.

[Stingray69]

I guess he could be called a hero. I'm sure he displayed heroic actions more then one time. And really you save one person once and I'm sure they would call you a hero for the rest of there life.

[Luzmagica]

Originally Posted by Powder

They're all heroic in many ways but they're not textbook heroes.

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

Can't say Mirage Splinter was a hero. The other versions are to me. Whenever the situtation calls for it, Splinter would do anything to save his sons. To me, that's what makes him a hero.

Originally Posted by Stingray69

I guess he could be called a hero. I'm sure he displayed heroic actions more then one time. And really you save one person once and I'm sure they would call you a hero for the rest of there life.

Im agree with specially all this points!!!

[Sage Ninja]

as much as I like Splinter, I have always seen him as being a tad self serving. So definately not a "hero" character.

[Lulu]

Good discussion, I would add that I feel they are heroes in that they inspire people and work toward a good cause

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The TMNT and Splinter are not heroes in the same way like Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, or Captain Planet.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Fred Wolf Splinter let Saki degrade the Foot Clan to criminals even thought he is the rightful heir to leadership of the clan.

That, and when he was implied to kill his sensei, he apparently didn't voice much protest, as in "no, this knife was planted on me" or "it isn't mine" or "that jerk, Saki, is right next to me, he probably did it." In the series' context, it's hinky, but the whole scene was for the "throw the bum out" line, so, yeah. At least, the Archie version did a nice retcon or tried its best, with Saki killing someone with Yoshi's blade, and successfully framed Yoshi for it.

It's a pity TMNT Dissected's main site is no more when GeoCities went down, as Vicky Hall had great deconstructive criticism of 87 Splinter. (Messageboard is still around, but it isn't much active.) She viewed his actions as a form of manipulation to keep the Turtles under his sway, etc. I'm not quite sold as I tend to view 87 Splinter as generic good, but she makes a compelling case, if anyone is interested.

As for Mirage Splinter, I understand his motivation to avenge his master, but his original point was to raise assassins against Saki. So, no, I wouldn't call him a hero in the traditional sense, but maybe an anti-hero in some ways in the future. (After all, he did help Casey when Shadow was kidnapped by Foot Soldiers in a Tales Vol. 2 issue.) Then again, this was the whole point of the Turtles in City At War, as to wonder if there is more to life beyond the Splinter/Shredder cycle of revenge. In turn, Splinter got a nice deconstruction during his time with the Rat King, so it all balances out.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

As for Mirage Splinter, I understand his motivation to avenge his master, but his original point was to raise assassins against Saki.

This is one of the things I really like about (Mirage) Splinter, he trains the turtles for a purpose, a vile wicked purpose spun by vengeance, and during that time he developed a fatherly relationship and feelings for the turtles.

[Dirty Blond]

I always thought avenging the death of his master was a noble, necessary thing to do.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Dirty Blond

I always thought avenging the death of his master was a noble, necessary thing to do.

why is that? It's just a cycle of death and violence.

Take it from Saki's point of view: Someone who was supposed to be a trusted member of the clan killed his beloved big brother and ran away.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

why is that? It's just a cycle of death and violence.

Take it from Saki's point of view: Someone who was supposed to be a trusted member of the clan killed his beloved big brother and ran away.

I still think that's a very big missed Tales of the TMNT; a look at the life of Oroku Saki's life following the "murder" of Nagi. Or heck an issue dedicated to Nagi himself. I mean, was he a villain, or just painted that way by the fact he was the one who started this whole story of murder and revenge off?