TMNT movie 4 - plot problems from a film theory analysis

saul · 07-04-2012, 02:13 PM

Alright, after reading over the script, I noticed several plot problems. I saw the movie in the theater and remembered it seemed like it took a long time for the story to start. And lately I've been reading about how to structure a movie with the 3 ACTS, and plot points, and realized that this movie seems to suffer by not following these guidelines.

You see, in most movies the three ACTs are broken up like this:
ACT I = 30 pages (25% of story)
ACT II = 60 pages (50% of story)
ACT III = 30 pages (25% of story)
(for a typical 120 minute movie)

This is a tried and true structure in many big box office movies. They aren't RULES, but they are helpful guidelines that work in all kinds of movies. Deviation from this format often causes problems.

In TMNT the 3 ACTs seem like this:
ACT I = 41 pages (~40% of story)
ACT II = 31 pages (~30% of story)
ACT III = 25 pages (~25% of story since TMNT is ~100 pages long)

This means ACT 1 lingers on WAY too long and ACT II is too short.

A movie is also structured around plot points or turning points. There are 5 main turning points that should happen around a particular time. In my analysis, I can see that the turning points take too long in TMNT:

page 21 - The "Inciting Incident" aka "turning point #1" - Leo returns and Splinter directs him to lead the group again, thus putting them in a new situation. This should take place around pg 12 not 21. (each page of script corresponds to 1 minute screen time, so pg 12 is about 12 minutes into the movie).

page 41 - "change of plans" - turning point #2/end ACT I - The Turtles are surprised by the monster on the construction site. This re-directs their attention on something new. This should be around page 25 not page 41.

page 62 - "point of no return" aka turning poing #3 - They figure out Winters is behind things. Now they have a clear goal they're after, and Raph takes off.

page 72 - "all is lost" (end ACT II/Start ACT III - turning point #4) - Leo is captured. Can the group still act without their leader? All seems lost here.

page 92/3 - The Climax - turning point #5 - They knock the badguys into the portal and the portal finally explodes.

The end.

I'd be curious if anyone agrees with my assessment of the plot/turning points. I believe this analysis reveals one of the fundamental problems with the movie.

~~Leo656~~ · 07-05-2012, 12:23 AM

I'm sure a lot of people are gonna chime in with snarky comments, but in truth pacing is a huge and under-estimated part of what makes a movie "work". I don't think it was the biggest thing wrong with TMNT but I do feel the pacing wasn't very good, and it contributed to why it didn't feel right to some people.

In wrestling I'm often taught that moves should go in a certain order, and if you go too far from it then it looks "off" to the audience, they may not even know why they dislike what they're seeing but changing the structure can make "not bad" seem "pretty bad". I do think that was part of the problem in TMNT. Not the whole problem, but part of it.

*Cipher* · 07-05-2012, 12:35 AM

I'm with Leo656 in that while I don't think pacing is the worst element of TMNT, nor do I think TMNT is terrible as a whole, it's certainly a problem.

Apparently the script was forced to contend with a lot of corporate mandates in its rewrites (which is why we have ridiculous things like the thirteen monsters, only half of which we see), so that may have something to do with it.

*pannoni1* · 07-05-2012, 09:27 AM

I agree that they spent way too much time during Act I just rekindling the identity of who the TMNT are, and this caused the battle sequences to be a bit too short, especially considering this was animated. Now, a typical three-act structure in the OT went like this:

ACT I: 16 pages/ 8 min
ACT II: 12 pages/ 6 min
ACT III: 14 pages/ 7 min
A total of approximately 42 pages/21 minutes

4kids had four acts of approximately 5 minutes each, though some acts were as short as three minutes and as long as seven minutes.

(Note that each page corrasponds to about 30 seconds of air time).

But since this is 100 minutes, there should be little excuse to not have time to resolve most plot points. Still, since this was targeted at people who had not heard of the TMNT for more than a decade, they had to incorporate some material to make sure the fans knew the personalities of each of the characters. Its a shame since casuals could have just watched the first movie again and then allowed the plot to go forward quicker.

07-04-2012, 02:13 PM	#1
saul Foot Soldier Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 161	TMNT movie 4 - plot problems from a film theory analysis Alright, after reading over the script, I noticed several plot problems. I saw the movie in the theater and remembered it seemed like it took a long time for the story to start. And lately I've been reading about how to structure a movie with the 3 ACTS, and plot points, and realized that this movie seems to suffer by not following these guidelines. You see, in most movies the three ACTs are broken up like this: ACT I = 30 pages (25% of story) ACT II = 60 pages (50% of story) ACT III = 30 pages (25% of story) (for a typical 120 minute movie) This is a tried and true structure in many big box office movies. They aren't RULES, but they are helpful guidelines that work in all kinds of movies. Deviation from this format often causes problems. In TMNT the 3 ACTs seem like this: ACT I = 41 pages (~40% of story) ACT II = 31 pages (~30% of story) ACT III = 25 pages (~25% of story since TMNT is ~100 pages long) This means ACT 1 lingers on WAY too long and ACT II is too short. A movie is also structured around plot points or turning points. There are 5 main turning points that should happen around a particular time. In my analysis, I can see that the turning points take too long in TMNT: page 21 - The "Inciting Incident" aka "turning point #1" - Leo returns and Splinter directs him to lead the group again, thus putting them in a new situation. This should take place around pg 12 not 21. (each page of script corresponds to 1 minute screen time, so pg 12 is about 12 minutes into the movie). page 41 - "change of plans" - turning point #2/end ACT I - The Turtles are surprised by the monster on the construction site. This re-directs their attention on something new. This should be around page 25 not page 41. page 62 - "point of no return" aka turning poing #3 - They figure out Winters is behind things. Now they have a clear goal they're after, and Raph takes off. page 72 - "all is lost" (end ACT II/Start ACT III - turning point #4) - Leo is captured. Can the group still act without their leader? All seems lost here. page 92/3 - The Climax - turning point #5 - They knock the badguys into the portal and the portal finally explodes. The end. I'd be curious if anyone agrees with my assessment of the plot/turning points. I believe this analysis reveals one of the fundamental problems with the movie.

07-05-2012, 12:23 AM	#2
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I'm sure a lot of people are gonna chime in with snarky comments, but in truth pacing is a huge and under-estimated part of what makes a movie "work". I don't think it was the biggest thing wrong with TMNT but I do feel the pacing wasn't very good, and it contributed to why it didn't feel right to some people. In wrestling I'm often taught that moves should go in a certain order, and if you go too far from it then it looks "off" to the audience, they may not even know why they dislike what they're seeing but changing the structure can make "not bad" seem "pretty bad". I do think that was part of the problem in TMNT. Not the whole problem, but part of it.

07-05-2012, 12:35 AM	#3
Cipher Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,454	I'm with Leo656 in that while I don't think pacing is the worst element of TMNT, nor do I think TMNT is terrible as a whole, it's certainly a problem. Apparently the script was forced to contend with a lot of corporate mandates in its rewrites (which is why we have ridiculous things like the thirteen monsters, only half of which we see), so that may have something to do with it.

07-05-2012, 09:27 AM	#4
pannoni1 Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: USA Posts: 3,447	I agree that they spent way too much time during Act I just rekindling the identity of who the TMNT are, and this caused the battle sequences to be a bit too short, especially considering this was animated. Now, a typical three-act structure in the OT went like this: ACT I: 16 pages/ 8 min ACT II: 12 pages/ 6 min ACT III: 14 pages/ 7 min A total of approximately 42 pages/21 minutes 4kids had four acts of approximately 5 minutes each, though some acts were as short as three minutes and as long as seven minutes. (Note that each page corrasponds to about 30 seconds of air time). But since this is 100 minutes, there should be little excuse to not have time to resolve most plot points. Still, since this was targeted at people who had not heard of the TMNT for more than a decade, they had to incorporate some material to make sure the fans knew the personalities of each of the characters. Its a shame since casuals could have just watched the first movie again and then allowed the plot to go forward quicker. __________________ http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...d.php?t=37065- MY WANT LIST TMNT FAN CLUB LINK: http://sot.ag/gCjK/ 30 years of Turtle Power!