Why does almost everybody have a notion that dark = better

[PApagreg]

I mean just because something is dark doesn't mean its better, also sometimes maybe a mixture of campy and dark is a good thing

[STORMSHADOW__210]

apples and oranges,they both have their value/appeal. I personaly think that the 80s superman and well general vibe of the 80s period from goonies to heman(also the mid/early 90s Shucmacher batman films) focused on light hearted adaptions for mostly kids, but Hollywood goes through its phases and with the Nolans Batman setting the stage, Dark was fresh and new. It will come full circle.

[CyberCubed]

Because people started to think 60's Batman was too silly and campy so it led to Batman '89 which was darker and then to Batman Begins which was darker than that.

[Refractive Reflections]

I think what some people confuse is the notion "darker = deeper" which is not always the case. Of course in "darker" storytelling, you deal with issues that can be more appropriately handled by adults in regards to violence, sexual topics, and drugs. But... it doesn't necessarily mean the movie deals with those topics in the most mature fashion.

For me, when movies excessively glamorize the "adrenaline thrill" of violence to the point that it ignores the emotional weight of it's fatal aftermath, then it's obviously not that mature because the movie's tone is in a "state of denial" in willingly ignoring the emotional consequences of committing such acts.

One example of this (and I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed here) is most of Quentin Taranatino's films, some would go so far to say his excessively seductive violent movies are nothing but a medium for "self-gratification" of adolescent males for their excessive thirst of violence. There's perpetual violence but rarely any introspective look into the emotional toll of the violence.

On the other extreme end, you would have the movie "Saving Private Ryan" that deals with the emotional magnitude of war and death, and has both darkness and depth.

So as for "why" almost everyone has the notion that "dark = better", I think it more or less has to do with the stage of people's lives and their maturity. The group you would consider "everyone" is most likely teenage and young adult males, and if you compare that demographic to middle aged or elderly males who have had many more years of experience and tragedies/hardships, they would most likely disagree.

[Vi11AiN6]

Because there was a "grimey" stark darkness to the Mirage comics. People often equate darker to meaning more serious. I just want a good movie regardless.

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by JYX

I think what some people confuse is the notion "darker = deeper" which is not always the case. Of course in "darker" storytelling, you deal with issues that can be more appropriately handled by adults in regards to violence, sexual topics, and drugs. But... it doesn't necessarily mean the movie deals with those topics in the most mature fashion.

For me, when movies excessively glamorize the "adrenaline thrill" of violence to the point that it ignores the emotional weight of it's fatal aftermath, then it's obviously not that mature because the movie's tone is in a "state of denial" in willingly ignoring the emotional consequences of committing such acts.

One example of this (and I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed here) is most of Quentin Taranatino's films, some would go so far to say his excessively seductive violent movies are nothing but a medium for "self-gratification" of adolescent males for their excessive thirst of violence. There's perpetual violence but rarely any introspective look into the emotional toll of the violence.

On the other extreme end, you would have the movie "Saving Private Ryan" that deals with the emotional magnitude of war and death, and has both darkness and depth.

So as for "why" almost everyone has the notion that "dark = better", I think it more or less has to do with the stage of people's lives and their maturity. The group you would consider "everyone" is most likely teenage and young adult males, and if you compare that demographic to middle aged or elderly males who have had many more years of experience and tragedies/hardships, they would most likely disagree.

[Bauer536]

I read somewhere that Japanese director Akira Kurosawa said that the two films to watch to make a movie are Stagecoach and Citizen Kane. To me, I feel that there are other films to set the tone for a TMNT film. For one thing, you don't want it too dark, but you also don't want it to be entirely goofy. Plus, you want the film to have epic proportions where the audience will not feel bored. To me, the most essential films to watch while making a TMNT film are The Dark Knight and Marvel's The Avengers. That's what TMNT should be. Something that may look a little Christopher Nolan, but have the style of Joss Whedon mixed together.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Why does almost everybody have a notion that dark = better

That ticks me off too. Gargoyles was boring, IMO.

[chrisdude]

Maybe praising "dark" interpretations eases the guilt of those who, deep down, feel like comic book movies are for kids.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Maybe praising "dark" interpretations eases the guilt of those who, deep down, feel like comic book movies are for kids.

I think it's a whole lotta this....

[JTH]

Manhood and Macho

People seem to have a easier time talking to a peer saying a darker show/movie is better than saying a slapstick/corny show or movie is SO awesome...

Gotta protect the Man-Card people!!!

[Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by jth

Manhood and Macho

People seem to have a easier time talking to a peer saying a darker show/movie is better than saying a slapstick/corny show or movie is SO awesome...

Gotta protect the Man-Card people!!!

Yup. Cause only men like mature themes and self-indulgent explosions.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

I read somewhere that Japanese director Akira Kurosawa said that the two films to watch to make a movie are Stagecoach and Citizen Kane. To me, I feel that there are other films to set the tone for a TMNT film. For one thing, you don't want it too dark, but you also don't want it to be entirely goofy. Plus, you want the film to have epic proportions where the audience will not feel bored. To me, the most essential films to watch while making a TMNT film are The Dark Knight and Marvel's The Avengers. That's what TMNT should be. Something that may look a little Christopher Nolan, but have the style of Joss Whedon mixed together.

Call me crazy but that is essentially what the first TMNT movie felt like.

[cammy85]

Everyone has their own tastes. Some like the darker, more action oriented Turtles like the first and Red Sky Seasons of the OT, first movie, and the 2003/2013 series. Some like the slapstick humor of the second and third movie and the rest of the OT. The cartoons try to blend both. Don't try to change people.

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Darker, to me, isn't always the look of the movie but also the weight of the story. The Empire Strike Back is the "darker" in the Star Wars Trilogy. wasn't it a dark palette? No... much of the movie was brightly lit by Hoth and the Cloud City. But the emotional weight of the story and where the characters are by the end of the film make it a dark movie.
All of the Batman movies are "dark" in look but "Forever" and "& Robin" were stylized to have a bight comic book feel. But the story were not that good.
To me it doesn't mean casting aside everything else and focusing on the grim and having the movie in shadow.

But it's all taste and opinion.
Batman can not be successful if it goes back to even a little campy. That was ok back then but Batman works best as a serious character and looking at the mental states of Bruce and all he encounters.
And I do own the '43 Batman serial and the '66 "Batman the Movie" from the TV show... so dont mistake what I said as being elitist and rejecting stuff lol.

but compare Marvel's movies to DC's (successful) movies.
Marvel's movie on the whole are light, enjoyable and good films to watch and re-watch. Iron Man 3 was "darker" because of where it had to go for the character and the outcome from The Avengers movie.
Nolan's Batman and Man Of Steel are darker movies due to the tone of the characters and what they must face. Still enjoyable, fun movies but the story is taken a bit more seriously. Meanwhile, Green Lantern... I'm not even sure what that was. And The Arrow TV show, although I have still not seen it, seems to be darker is tone as well.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because people started to think 60's Batman was too silly and campy so it led to Batman '89 which was darker and then to Batman Begins which was darker than that.

Same with the comics. The 60s killed Batman.
Frank Miller revived Batman with Year One and it's follow ups The Dark Knight Returns and The Dark Knight Strikes Again.
Tim Burton used Miller's books as a base for the '89 movie, both mediums revived Batman and brought him out of being a joke (worse off for a time than Aquaman is). The Animated Series was also dark in tone but appealed to kids and adults. Someone mentioned Gargoyles earlier as being boring to them, yet it's a beloved cartoon series of the 90s.

There is a tone for everything. If Adventure Time was to go "dark"... well... actually, it be creepy as hell.
The Ninja Turtles have proven that they can exist, and work well in both lights. But the source was always dark and gritty so many adaptations for the Turtles look back to that formula as tried-and-true. it works. The OT worked for being light and enjoyable to kids and adults (or kids grown into adults ) My favorite TMNT movie has always been the original and I like SotO every once in a while. It's fun and light. I have never liked the 3rd but it's really light and campy and some like it. I did enjoy the 2007 movie which looked dark but still felt like light Turtles for most of the movie.
The 2003 series was dark on a whole and the current 2013 show looks dark but feels light.

Originally Posted by JYX

I think what some people confuse is the notion "darker = deeper" which is not always the case. Of course in "darker" storytelling, you deal with issues that can be more appropriately handled by adults in regards to violence, sexual topics, and drugs. But... it doesn't necessarily mean the movie deals with those topics in the most mature fashion.

For me, when movies excessively glamorize the "adrenaline thrill" of violence to the point that it ignores the emotional weight of it's fatal aftermath, then it's obviously not that mature because the movie's tone is in a "state of denial" in willingly ignoring the emotional consequences of committing such acts.

One example of this (and I'm sure I'm gonna get flamed here) is most of Quentin Taranatino's films, some would go so far to say his excessively seductive violent movies are nothing but a medium for "self-gratification" of adolescent males for their excessive thirst of violence. There's perpetual violence but rarely any introspective look into the emotional toll of the violence.

On the other extreme end, you would have the movie "Saving Private Ryan" that deals with the emotional magnitude of war and death, and has both darkness and depth.

So as for "why" almost everyone has the notion that "dark = better", I think it more or less has to do with the stage of people's lives and their maturity. The group you would consider "everyone" is most likely teenage and young adult males, and if you compare that demographic to middle aged or elderly males who have had many more years of experience and tragedies/hardships, they would most likely disagree.

I'm pretty much agreeing with this.
It's a reflection of humanity (in response to your last paragraph). We're in a dark time so we look to these movies. Same reason why there are so many End of the World movies and really goofy comedies. It's all an escape. It's how people escape that shows what works.

[gobo]

The few times I caught anyone saying "all of 2K3 should have been like Same As It Never Was", it made me so dizzy... y'know... cuz my eyes wouldn't stop rolling.

[ABrown]

I'm not gonna state as a fact that "darker = better". But I will say this: My favorite incarnations of the TMNT have been (not necessarily in this order) the "red sky" seasons of the original cartoon, the first TMNT movie in 1990, the first five seasons of the 4Kids TMNT cartoon, and the 2007 CGI TMNT movie. When it comes to the tv shows and movies, those were the darker versions. So is it coincidence???

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I think a lot of people here grew up with the 1987 show. They liked the slapstick-action. Then they grew up, and discovered the Mirage Comics. Now, they wanted the TMNT to grow up with them. Finally disappointed, they came to realize that the 1987 show fits best when being a light-heartred journey back to their childhood years, leaving the dark for Mirage.

[Goon]

Personally? I think it has a lot to do with what is going on with the world outside of the medium. You look at whats going on now in different parts all over the world and it seeps into the conscious of the artists producing it.. I think in Hollywood it has more less become a pissing contest to see who can up the ante even further though..

For myself, I like having both versions available to me.. If I want the lighthearted stuff I can jump right into the Nick series.. If I want a darker take I can watch the first film.. Either way I'm getting a good dose of quality TMNT.

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza

But it's all taste and opinion.
Batman can not be successful if it goes back to even a little campy. That was ok back then but Batman works best as a serious character and looking at the mental states of Bruce and all he encounters.
And I do own the '43 Batman serial and the '66 "Batman the Movie" from the TV show... so dont mistake what I said as being elitist and rejecting stuff lol.

I don't mind Batman stories being "serious," and the Dark Knight trilogy was a cool "What if this were real?" scenario, but parts of these villains were sacrificed for the sake of making them mesh with reality. I feel like Bane should have his venom, Joker should have his gas, and Catwoman should have a stronger connection with cats than what her goggles look like when they're flipped up. If they'd used Penguin, he would've just been a short dude named Cobblepot...

I'm not saying I want camp. I just don't feel Gotham fits, or can fit in the real world.