City at War story arc compared to the entire Mirage comics run

[ScOULaris]

So I just finished reading through all five books in the Ultimate Collection, and it feels bittersweet. Over the course of reading the five books, I found myself bouncing back and forth between being impressed and bored. With the exception of Volumes 1 and 5, the first half of each book consisted of pretty slapdash, disconnected stories that were just strange and somewhat uninteresting for me. This, so I've learned, is how the Mirage era of TMNT functioned.

The series started out strong with the initial Shredder storyline followed by a fantastical but still enjoyable sci-fi adventure with the Fugitoid and the Triceratons. After that, however, the comics started to get a little weird and random as Eastman and Laird got busy with other things and began letting other Mirage employees take over art or writing duties. While I certainly respect the "devil may care" attitude of these two indie comic visionaries at a time when success was burying them with an amount of work I can only imagine, reading most of Volume 1 makes it clear to me how much better TMNT works with planned out, continuous story arcs like what we see with Return to New York and City at War.

The writing and plotting for City at War was head and shoulders above the entirety of the rest of the Ultimate Collection. It's so good! I found myself so impressed with the whole City at War story arc that I kind of felt disappointed that the series didn't function that way all along. So many wacky, disjointed issues filled the space between the Fugitoid story and Shades of Gray/City at War that I find myself wondering what could have been. What if Eastman and Laird had committed themselves to writing cohesive story arcs like City of War from the very beginning? The quality of the work speaks for itself when they decide to hunker down and work together (along with others at Mirage) on spinning an interesting, connected yarn with the TMNT cast of characters.

This is mostly just a rant, but I'm also writing to see how other Mirage TMNT fans felt about the drastic differences between 60% of the entire Volume 1 series and the contained story arcs of Return to NY and City at War. Do you also feel like most of the filler issues represent a huge missed opportunity to have fleshed out these characters in the prime of Eastman and Laird's involvement?

I will say that I'm happy to be reading the IDW comics right now. I can't say whether or not they stand up to the best of the Mirage comics just yet, but I can appreciate the quality writing for the turtles and the continuous story arc.

[Dirty Blond]

You're not alone. I'm reading the Mirage stuff for the first time too, and while City at War is a jewel in their crown, it is certainly one of the few.

[CyberCubed]

I find it bizarre you're complaining about the guest issue stories when they weren't in the Ultimate Collections at all. These 5 books only collected the Eastman/Laird issues so unless you were reading the Classics alongside them I don't see what disjointed stories you're talking about.

[Tazi]

I totally agree with ScOULaris. This is the same reason why I love IDW too, because it has a strong coherent story splitted into (at least) 4 issue story arcs. I think one issue stories can only work, if they focus on just a few characters and events, but many one issue stories try to do a lot more then that. For example, Leo's Blind Faith story in Tales was perfect. It basically had two characters only (and the poor homeless dude), and had a quiet shocking ending. It was awesome. Or there was Shades of Grey, which was two issues, and had more characters, but mostly it was about how Casey drags himself down to hell. It worked, and was great. Too bad most one part stories (at least for me) can't keep up that level.

[Shred87]

Took the words out of my mouth... Just to clarify did you read the entire mirage run or the 5 ultimate collections?

[Powder]

I realize I'm likely in the minority here, but I actually prefer the shorter more self-contained stories that go over an issue or two to the longer ones. One shots & the like, too. Books like Sons Of The Silent Age grab me more because of the emotional weight they carry. I'll take poignancy over action in the TMNT books any day, though an important balance between the two is what makes the series so damn good.

[ScOULaris]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I find it bizarre you're complaining about the guest issue stories when they weren't in the Ultimate Collections at all. These 5 books only collected the Eastman/Laird issues so unless you were reading the Classics alongside them I don't see what disjointed stories you're talking about.

The guest issue stories were even more disjointed and oftentimes odd than the filler issues that I'm referring to in the Ultimate Collection. To clarify, I am referring to the first half of Volumes 2-4.

The issues with the aging superheroes, the Renet story arc, the brass cow Northampton story, Donatello's one-shot... etc. Everything other than the first Ultimate Collection book, the Leonardo one-shot, the Return to NY arc, Shades of Grey, and City at War is what I'm referring to as inconsequential and not that interesting.

Given the quality of City at War, I find myself wishing that they had conducted the entire Mirage run of comics that way rather than being so slapdash and wacky with the TMNT half of the time.

Originally Posted by Shred87

Took the words out of my mouth... Just to clarify did you read the entire mirage run or the 5 ultimate collections?

I read the 5 Ultimate Collection books, but afterward I also started reading through a few of the issues that weren't included in the collections as well. My OP was only referring to the Eastman/Laird content that was included in the Ultimate Collection.

Originally Posted by Powder

I realize I'm likely in the minority here, but I actually prefer the shorter more self-contained stories that go over an issue or two to the longer ones. One shots & the like, too. Books like Sons Of The Silent Age grab me more because of the emotional weight they carry. I'll take poignancy over action in the TMNT books any day, though an important balance between the two is what makes the series so damn good.

I love a good, poignant one-shot story set within the TMNT universe. I'm not saying that longer story arcs are inherently better, but I'd rather see writing and pacing on par with that of City at War than most of the stuff that came before it in the Mirage run of comics.

[Cipher]

I'm of two minds. "City at War" is the highlight of the entire series by a significant amount, and Volume 2 carries over many of its strong points as well. I'd have loved a longer run of the Laird-Eastman-Lawson (Lawson scripted these and is a huge part of the equation) power team. The results are stellar.

On the other hand, I love the surreal tone all of the slipshod guest-artist stories provide. It makes the Turtles' universe one where anything can happen, usually in an off-beat and somber way, and that kind of strengthens the longer, serious story lines as well. On the other other hand, a lot of those one-offs aren't particularly good, and they can be a slog for a first-time reader.

So I guess I wish it had been a little more focused, a little more balanced, and the "City at War"/Volume 2 era had lasted a bit longer.

Originally Posted by Powder

I realize I'm likely in the minority here, but I actually prefer the shorter more self-contained stories that go over an issue or two to the longer ones. One shots & the like, too. Books like Sons Of The Silent Age grab me more because of the emotional weight they carry. I'll take poignancy over action in the TMNT books any day, though an important balance between the two is what makes the series so damn good.

No, I agree completely. The reason "City at War" tops my list is that it also happens to be one of the most poignant stories in the series, in addition to making great use of a long-form story line. But right on its heels are things like "Sons of the Silent Age" and several single issues of Tales Vol. 2.

If the thread is, "I just wish it had been more serialized," I actually can't agree. IDW is tightly serialized, but nothing it's done has grabbed me like the best issues of Mirage. If the thread is, "I wish more of the series had been like 'City at War' specifically," that I agree with.

[CyberCubed]

The Donatello one shot was amazing. If you thought that was disjointed you missed the entire point.

I also fail to see why filler issues are bad. We don't need to see the turtles fighting the Foot non-stop. Volume 1 was paced wonderfully in that regard.

[ScOULaris]

Originally Posted by Cipher

I'm of two minds. "City at War" is the highlight of the entire series by a significant amount, and Volume 2 carries over many of its strong points as well. I'd have loved a longer run of the Laird-Eastman-Lawson (Lawson scripted these and is a huge part of the equation) power team. The results are stellar.

Yeah, if that is the case then I think Lawson deserves most of the credit. The leap in writing quality from the older Mirage issues to the City at War arc is immense. He's just a much better writer than either Eastman or Laird, I'd have to say.

Originally Posted by Cipher

If the thread is, "I just wish it had been more serialized," I actually can't agree. IDW is tightly serialized, but nothing it's done has grabbed me like the best issues of Mirage. If the thread is, "I wish more of the series had been like 'City at War' specifically," that I agree with.

No, I'm not trying to say that TMNT should be more serialized. I was mainly trying to highlight City at War as possessing uncommonly strong writing and plotting as compared to the rest of the Mirage comics. Better characterization, better pacing, fewer misspellings, more nuanced and natural dialog... etc. That's what I think makes City at War stand out the most.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by ScOULaris

No, I'm not trying to say that TMNT should be more serialized. I was mainly trying to highlight City at War as possessing uncommonly strong writing and plotting as compared to the rest of the Mirage comics. Better characterization, better pacing, fewer misspellings, more nuanced and natural dialog... etc. That's what I think makes City at War stand out the most.

Then we totally agree. I'll go a step further and say I really think it's one of the best-written story lines a well-known "action" comic has ever delivered. I actually encourage new readers to start with it because it leaves such a strong impression.

Originally Posted by ScOULaris

Yeah, if that is the case then I think Lawson deserves most of the credit. The leap in writing quality from the older Mirage issues to the City at War arc is immense. He's just a much better writer than either Eastman or Laird, I'd have to say.

Oh, no doubt. To this day, if I could change one thing about the existing Mirage material, it would have been to have Lawson script Volume 4 (don't know if you've read it yet) based on Laird's plots. I think it would have been a really strong run.

[ScOULaris]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Then we totally agree. I'll go a step further and say I really think it's one of the best-written story lines a well-known "action" comic has ever delivered. I actually encourage new readers to start with it because it leaves such a strong impression.

The only reservation I would have about recommending that a new reader start with City at War is that there'd be nowhere to go but down after that. I'd rather they start with the solid first issue, maybe dabble in the Fugitoid storyline a little bit, and then jump forward to the Leo one-off issue, Return to NY, and then finally City at War. That little tour through Volume 1 of the Mirage comics would provide them with the best big-picture view of the TMNT as it existed then.

[AquaParade]

I totally agree that City at War is strikingly superior in quality to the rest of Volume 1.

That is not to say I don't massively enjoy other parts of Volume 1, 2, 3, and 4. City at War just takes the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle concept in all the right directions, questioning Splinter's integrity, the turtle's destiny, and bringing some really poignant moments for Casey and April.

[CyberCubed]

Nah, I agree with Powder that Mirage's one-shot stories were the way to go. As good as City at War was, both Volume 2 and 4 didn't really benefit from the whole continuous story structure.

The fact that Tales of the TMNT had the best Turtle stories, and most issues were one-shots, says enough in itself.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Nah, I agree with Powder that Mirage's one-shot stories were the way to go. As good as City at War was, both Volume 2 and 4 didn't really benefit from the whole continuous story structure.

The fact that Tales of the TMNT had the best Turtle stories, and most issues were one-shots, says enough in itself.

Kinda disagree. Volume 2 ended too soon to have 'the next storyline', so all we got was that one Baxter/DARPA one. Not enough time for one-shots. Vol 4 was aight, but could have used shorter arcs and one-shots.

A decent mix of multi-chapter stories and one-shots is the way to go.

[ScOULaris]

What makes City at War special is its uncommonly competent writing and pitch-perfect pacing. It didn't just stand above the rest due to it being a continuous story arc. The quality of its characterization and plot is what sets it apart from both one-shots and later story arcs in the series.

I've started reading through Mirage Volume 2 and Volume 4, and unfortunately I can't say that anything that I've come across in either stands up to City at War when it comes to writing and plotting.

[Joey Kamikaze]

City At War was actually my real introduction to the Mirage universe outside of a few random bits and pieces I ran into when I was younger... hell of a way to come into it.

(Actually, I think my real first encounter with the Mirage stuff was from TMNT & Other Strangness.)

[Tazi]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Nah, I agree with Powder that Mirage's one-shot stories were the way to go. As good as City at War was, both Volume 2 and 4 didn't really benefit from the whole continuous story structure.

I disagree.
How are they did not benefit? Volume 4 was great, and one of the things that was made it great is that it was a long saga. Vol.4 was the reason I started to read other Mirage stuff. Only bad about is that it was never finished/closed.

Volume 2 was also nice too, especially from the part when they reunited with Baxter. Also, a good ammount of Tales v2 stuff is based on what Lawson did in v2. Even some of the v4 plots.

[shuriken]

Although a few of the One shots were just ok, some were fantastic, Twilight of the Ring, Hall of lost legends, Sons of a Silent Age, Sky Highway and Toitle anxiety are all fantastic, and if they were more serialized those issues would never have been made.
City At War was also fantastic but I like both sides of the coins. You get Nitty gritty stories like issue 1, Return to New York, Silent Partner and City at War alongside fantastical stories about space travel and Utroms and time travel.
It's the entire package that makes it so great, which is why Volume 1 is so damn special and endearing.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by ScOULaris

I've started reading through Mirage Volume 2 and Volume 4, and unfortunately I can't say that anything that I've come across in either stands up to City at War when it comes to writing and plotting.

Can't say the same for Volume 4, but the dialogue, character moments, and overall tone in Volume 2 are very consistent with what we get in "City at War" through at least the first few issues.

After that, it starts having to make room for a plot that couldn't be properly finished, which is a buzzkill.

But little moments like Don finding the "Guiding Light" pamphlet? Or Leo and Mike's "Everything's just different now" conversation? I love those.