5 years after Viacom buys the turtles, thoughts?

[sdp]

It feels just recent that Viacom bought the turtles but I just realized it's been more than 5 years already, time sure flies. It feels like just yesterday when I read the announcement or when we first saw the concept art for the show and all the trouble with the live action movie also feels recent. But now that we've been under the viacom umbrella, we've had three seasons of the CG show, we've gotten plenty of merchandise and a movie. When Viacom first bought the turtles most people at the drome were fairly negative, I think Cybercubed nearly committed suicide and at least 200 of his post count is how Viacom would turn the turtles into sponge bob. There were definitely a few who were positive about it, I was one of those few and I remember Roseangelo as well being happy Laird would have nothing to do with the turtles anymore. Even at the time I would've preferred for Mirage to keep the turtles but I thought at least with Viacom it meant movies and shows and whatnot which Mirage didn't seem to be able to do by itself since they didn't have the money so i was fine with the purchase.


But after a few years, I think that it's been a huge disappointment. I was one of the few hyped for the new show but I had a lot faith that they wouldn't do a crappy show based on how much they spent for it and that they needed an action show in their line-up, I loved all the concept art as well and while I didn't love the final designs I was more than fine with them with the exception of Splinter and Shredder (he looked too over the top and 90s). But while I never felt the show was bad I also never got all the praise that it had, to me the show is very safe and for that reason it's boring to me even if I have enjoyed episodes. I recently decided I wasn't going to be watching the show anymore, it just doesn't hold my attention to be waiting for new episodes and whatnot. I'll definitely watch the whole show once it has finished its run though, since I did enjoy it I just can't be bothered to be watching it as it airs since it's not as interesting as say 2k3. I can't talk about the IDW comic since I don't read it but I can say I don't like the art and the blending of OT nostalgia pandering and "mature" seems like its not something I'd like but who knows.

The new movie I actually liked, I know it gets a bad rap here but while it definitely has plenty of flaws like the turtle designs and some decisions in the plot/shredder it felt like a turtles movie and I'll be watching the sequel. But I still can't not feel disappointed after the awesome confirmed live action movie Mirage had been planning before the buyout, everything they mentioned was the turtles movie we all wanted and we may never get anything like that ever again. But how about Merchandise? Maybe Viacom is not to blame too much but Playmates has shat on another turtles toyline, it started with promise only for that to be all they were going to do. Besides that I do have to give credit that Viacom has given the license to many other companies, we've gotten Lego, Minimates, those blind bag figures/bobble heads etc. Sadly those don't appeal to me so they didn't do much. Having revoltech Turtles was indeed awesome. So I guess Viacom has done a good job there. Now let's get to the videogames which have always been an important part of TMNT media. We all know Konami did a mediocre job with the 2k3 show games but they weren't terrible and Ubisoft faired similarly when they got the license but what about Activision? They made that terrible "gritty" live arcade game and I just found out they've released 3 3DS games, they're so incredibly mediocre that they didn't even register on anyones radar, at least the other companies got press about their games. Who knows for how long Activision has the license but I'd love to see another publisher take a stab at it.

So yeah overall Viacom owning the turtles hasn't been great for me, I would've preferred Mirage keeping the turtles even if it meant no turtles media for the foreseeable future, maybe we'd only be getting rumors about a new show right now but also we might've gotten a much better movie. The future of the turtles with Viacom is also uncertain, they don't shy away from getting rid of stuff that was once popular and making money for them so if they ever get tired of the turtles we may never see them again but they do have the money and at least they wouldn't shy away from an 'adult' oriented TMNT show/movie if there was ever demand for it. Let's just hope that after the current movie series and cartoon end it isn't too long before Viacom makes another one because I'd love to see what they do I could see Viacom not making a new show for more than ten years after the current one ends.

Please don't make your post into a rant of "NICK SHOW/Bay's Movie SUCKS, **** Viacom" if you don't like it be constructive like I was and if you've liked it well tell us why.

[CyberCubed]

2 out of 3 of the new incarnations since Viacom bought the license are great, so I'm content.

The Nick cartoon is good, the IDW series is good. The Michael Bay 2014 movie (and likely its sequels) are terrible. So we got 2 out of 3, I'm content.

[Netkeeper]

The only incarnation since the purchase I've liked is IDW. I don't like how the 2k3 series has been treated since the purchase. I'm glad the old show and comics have gotten attention, but they act like 2k3 never happened at all. I don't care about the video games either way. I am however happy about merchandise turnout.

I'll reconsider my stance when 2k3 gets a full DVD release but for now I'm wishing the purchase hadn't happened.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

I'll reconsider my stance when 2k3 gets a full DVD release but for now I'm wishing the purchase hadn't happened.

The 2k3 series will likely be released on DVD eventually. They already tested the waters last year by airing the first two seasons on Nicktoons and on their site for a bit to expose new kids to them.

[Jephael]

My friend and I actually liked the Michael Bay film. We watched it together the other day while I was in town for a visit (the first time he saw it) and we had a good time viewing it. He actually got startled when April was caught in the subway scene, which cracked me up.

[turtlefanforever]

lots of merch is great, the all the rest is ****

[Mormegil]

As long as they leave the IDW series alone, I'm happy. Even then I wish they would allow the series to be a bit darker.

There s nothing wrong with the fred wolf or nickolodeon cartoons, I just prefer the series to take itself more serious with the comedy bits well placed but not too often.

[Autbot_Benz]

Stop trolling turtlefanforever. First warning.

-DarthRaphael

[Dirty Blond]

I like the Nick show.

I have not seen the movie, so I can't comment (although avoiding the movie may be a comment in itself).

But best of all is how IDW is giving us a very nice ongoing comic as well as reintroducing the Mirage material, most of which I missed the first go-round. The 30th anniversary issue was stellar.

The toys are cool too, even though I don't collect them.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

2 out of 3 of the new incarnations since Viacom bought the license are great, so I'm content.

The Nick cartoon is good, the IDW series is good. The Michael Bay 2014 movie (and likely its sequels) are terrible. So we got 2 out of 3, I'm content.

To be brief, this sums up my feelings, too. But I'd say it's 2/4, as the toys are a pretty major part of the franchise, too. So I am pleased with the comics & cartoon, but not the toys or film(s).

IDW's original comics are very creative. They're very much in the vein of past material, across different eras. You can tell there is influence being taken from, & homage being paid to, the Archie & Mirage comics, & all 3 TMNT cartoon series, with there being drips & drops of other familiar flavors throughout. I feel that it at times pulls too much from the Fred Wolf/Playmates aesthetic & cast too much, but for the most part, I am less tolerating that & more so growing fond of old things in a new light. In other words, while I may not want X or Y to be a part of the book, they find a way to make me like it. So I'm more forgiving of it now. If nothing else, it can't be argued that IDW puts out a lot of high quality content, consistently. 3 TMNT books a month, if not more, when you count reprints & their many variations. Their host of artists is both broad in size & variation, giving opportunities to artists with very unique styles who may not otherwise have a spotlight position at one of The Big 2. This sort of indie operation is not unlike Mirage, who gave many of today's prominent artists their jump-start in both Mirage's guest era of the late 80's & their Tales Of TMNT Vol. 2 of the 2000's. So while they may be under the reigns of Viacom, it still has some working man's charm to it. Oh, & the crossovers! Whoo! X-files, Cthulu, Ghostbusters, it's all rad & feels right at home. While I'm not completely happy with IDW's treatment of Mirage works (the colored reprints have some pretty grievous errors), I am greatly appreciative of how they push/respect the original comics, there seems to be an effort there to raise awareness of the turtles' roots. Plus there's the fact they employ people like Dooney & Lawson to create new covers for these volumes, helping us to have a steady flow of new art from the awesome gang at Mirage. Not to mention doing the 30th anniversary book featuring new stories in each of the old school comic continuities. So us comic fans have it pretty damn good right now.

Nick's series is an amazingly strong program, I think. Much like IDW, they'll include something I'm unsure of, or against, & revitalize it in just such a way that it clicks perfectly, & makes you wonder how it hadn't been done before. The character designs, are in my opinion, the penultimate. The definitive look of a teenage mutant ninja turtle. They've got a uniform appearance while being different from one another in perfectly subtle ways, with their varying heights, head shapes, & facial features. The build of their limbs is taken from the very first drawing of the TMNT, so the Mirage turtles are immediately called to mind from their general appearance, which is heightened by the brown pads & grimy wraps. Just the same, they have a childlike charm that makes them endearing from the get-go, intertwined with anime & Japanese monster aesthetics, that tickle my geeky sensibilities in every way imaginable. & that goes for all characters on the show, really. April was always incredibly boring to me, aside from being the turtles' link to the human world, she's never offered much personality. But here, she's young, smart, sassy, & very funny. Maybe I'm biased for loving her new look & voice actor, but I think she's the best April to date (though I am not a fan of her psychic abilities). Shredder & Splinter are so perfectly badass & stoic, they've got such presence. I'm into ALL of the characterization, new designs, etc. All of that is infinitely appealing to me. On an art/visual level, the show is bonkers. It's really cinematic with it's laugh out loud humor, high octane martial arts, sci-fi & slasher tributes, & killer soundtrack. It's a giant love letter to pulp/cult media, which is what the TMNT were originally built on. Comics, cartoons, kung-fu movies, heavy metal, etc. It knows where it came from & wears the badge proudly. It's able to be dark & violent without offending censors or coming off as melodramatic, by utilizing psychedelic visuals, non-human cannon fodder, & using surrealistic body horror. It's clever in more ways than one. Unfortunately, there are times where it (by force, I think) relies too heavily on the say-so of Playmates toys, and/or whomever is pushing the Fred Wolf elements. The series had a brand new, fresh, yet very general, 4kids/Mirage/Archie kind of vibe for season 1 & portions of two, but then in season 2 it went into a somewhat formulaic pattern dubbed "Mutant Of The Week" by fans, during which plot would take a backseat to random humor & introducing one-off characters to promote the toyline, not unlike the original cartoon (which was awesomely crossed over into this one & will be again, so I hear). So while the story is wonderful, we don't always get as much of it as we'd like. But we don't know who is ultimately responsible for that. The breaks don't help, either. It seems now, halfway into season 3, that the tone is changing yet again, perhaps returning to a style more similar to that of season 1. Overall, the series focuses a lot on the actual ninja element of the property, which I feel is very important & often not given the attention it deserves. Similarly, they care very much for the heart & family dynamic, which includes celebrating your weirdness, individuality, & knowing that it's not always about blood but who has your back. Good themes to give kids, & important stuff to remind us adults. It's also very weird, the good kind of weird. Never weird for weirdness' sake, rather, it just plain feels right.

The other two aspects of the modern era TMNT, the toyline & new live action film, I cannot speak highly of. I tried to be brief, but I goofed up.

Playmates started off strong with wave 1. Detailed sculpts, plenty of cartoon accuracy, a large assortment of weapons (albeit unpainted), & the scale was decent, relatively. Over time, figures saw less & less paint, less articulation, worse scale, quality control issues, re-used parts, very basic sculpts that at times don't even match up with past figures or plain look cheap, etc. It just all went downhill. They still sometimes make nice sculpts in the basic line, though they're consistently hindered by ill-conceived, cost effective, setbacks. They're even harder to appreciate in-store, because when the toys are revealed to the public, they are fully painted. Production models do not reflect the same level of quality, despite being falsely marketed as such. The adult "collectors" lines were well intended but very poorly executed. They made a lot of promises they did not or could not keep, their promo was at times poorly worded, misrepresenting the products, quality control was at a low (Cross-eyed turtles, Rocksteady's neck unpainted, legs on backwards, etc), directionless articulation made it difficult for figures to hold their weapons, the "Henson" turtles looked nothing like the source material, fans were both ignored & teased, it goes on & on. & those Mirage turtles? Gross. I'd say they look like NECA bootlegs but that'd be a grand insult to NECA bootlegs, because, wow, somehow those are better than factory made collector pieces from a major corporation. In addition to that, Playmates' PR is virtually non-existent, they keep re-hashing concepts that haven't done well in the past, there are tons of variants/role-playing kits shelf-warming, I could go on forever. The struggle is real. On the bright side, Viacom seems to be hip to us now, & has been lending out the license to other toy creators, like Revoltech, so that we can get better pieces for our collections. A big upside.

What did I like about the new film? Well, it had very nice CGI (for the most part), showed the turtles as kids, which was cool, the turtles' voice actors were decent, aaaaaand that's it, I guess. I hate pretty much every single thing about it. Bad writing, bad editing, bad color palettes, bad script, bad plot, gaping plotholes, bad acting, bad cast, bad designs, iffy characterization, bad leaked stuff/re-shoots, unnecessary/terrible changes to lore, a staff who knows little to nothing about the TMNT, obvious product placement, generic score, crummy theme song, it's just all around terrible. No bueno. IDW & Nick's creative teams consist of fans & past turtle veterans, so they're good. The films creative team consists of a bunch of guys who make things go boom for bags of money, so it's bad.

My opinion is my opinion, not here for an argument.

All in all, I think the good outweighs the bad, but the bad is baaaaaaad.

[Sabacooza]

Viacom owning the property is a double edged sword I suppose. I love that we have lots of merchandise and I love the current show and comics but at the end of the day Viacom is an entity with no heart and the moment the property becomes nonprofitable, it's dead, maybe to be shelved permanently. I just hope they're kind enough to sell it off to someone else if they come to a point where they have no intentions of doing anything with it anymore.

Having Laird own it on the other hand was a bit better in a sense because the property was safe. True, Laird could've shelved it permanently as well but being the co-creator he had a certain love for it that Viacom will never have. We might not have had as much material with Laird but again, I felt that as long as he owned it there was no danger of it vanishing forever. He continued to produce the comics even when sales weren't great. Also, under him, we very well could've gotten a really good new live action movie that stuck to the source material.

What will keep TMNT afloat should Viacom choose to not make TV shows and movies in house are the licensees much like when Laird owned it. I just don't know if I could stand not having any movies or a TV show once Viacom feels it's not profitable to do so.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Having Laird own it on the other hand was a bit better in a sense because the property was safe. True, Laird could've shelved it permanently as well but being the co-creator he had a certain love for it that Viacom will never have. We might not have had as much material with Laird but again, I felt that as long as he owned it there was no danger of it vanishing forever. He continued to produce the comics even when sales weren't great. Also, under him, we very well could've gotten a really good new live action movie that stuck to the source material.so.

If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.

[Jester]

Enjoying what I like, not really caring for what I don't. Same as it was under Pete.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.

You have a point but the same thing will happen with Viacom. They'll get tired of it and not want to do anything with it. It's a cycle. The question is will they then sell it off or just sit on it?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Yeah, and the same thing can eventually happen again under Viacom so what's your point?

Because we're getting new stuff now. If PL didn't do anything with TMNT within the last 5 years, he likely wouldn't do anything with it for the next 5 either. PL viewed the 4kids cartoon as the TMNT cartoon he always wanted the first time around, so he likely never had any desire to partner with any other company to make another. And as seen by Mirage's comic output since the sale...which is basically nothing.

You're right in that Viacom might shelve the franchise for some time after the Nick/IDW series end. But even then its probably for the best to avoid franchise burnout. I'd rather the series take a 5-10 year break rather than getting a 4th cartoon and another comic reboot so soon thereafter.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You're right in that Viacom might shelve the franchise for some time after the Nick/IDW series end. But even then its probably for the best to avoid franchise burnout. I'd rather the series take a 5-10 year break rather than getting a 4th cartoon and another comic reboot so soon thereafter.

Okay, then you'd pretty much be in the same situation TMNT was in under Laird. There would be no desire to do anything with it. We'd have how many years of nothing. I feel in order for the property to stay alive it needs to eventually be sold off to someone excited enough to do something with it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If PL never sold TMNT we would have been sitting here since 2009 twiddling our thumbs because we would be getting literally nothing new aside from the odd Volume 4 issue every 5 years or so.

Peter Laird was done. He barely has the motivation to finish Volume 4, Tales of the TMNT concluded, and he wasn't looking to start another cartoon after the 4kids series ended. We literally would have had a dead franchise since 2009 and it would have stayed that way forever.

The fact that Mirage can produce new comics right now yet the company does nothing says a lot. So TMNT was in danger of "vanishing forever" if PL never sold it, because he would just be letting it be.

I agree with everything you said, CC.

I think that when the time comes, Viacom will sell the rights. They're in the business to make money, so after they wring all the cash out of it, it makes good business sense to pass it along and make even more money with a last sale. (Hopefully... they could also just squat on the rights and hog them, because selfishness.)

[TMNTChris1980]

I'll give what I like, and add a criticism, so people don't think I'm a complete maniac.

Really dig the show, they do so many nods to Mirage, it makes me happy knowing that kids will one day read the original comics, and realize where it all started. Down side of it, I wish Shredder was smaller (yeah, I got nothing)

The IDW comics are really good. Lots of great artists, and writing keep me coming back. Downside of the IDW series, WAY too many micro series, spinoffs, and variant covers. I also am not a huge fan of a million mutants. Where the series started was very low key and paced well, now it seems like a million mutants. Too many nods to the toyline than the mirage comic.

The new movie, not going to start a battle here. I did not like the new movie at all. I honestly can't think of a single thing I liked about it. Oh wait the one scene where Shredder (?) was tied up on the ground, and did some bad ass karate moves on Karai's foot soldiers. Oh and the first time they showed Splinter the little girl in front of me saying "ewwww, he's gross". Nailed it.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

(Hopefully... they could also just squat on the rights and hog them, because selfishness.)

Hopefully? why would one hope for that? That would be terrible.

[sdp]

You guys are fools if you think Viacom is going to sell the turtles, any major company would rather sit on an IP and do nothing with it than let others use it. The only reason Saban was able to buy Power Rangers from Disney is that it was co-owned by Toei if not Power Rangers would be a dead franchise right now, if you can think of another example go ahead.. Look at how many iconic IPs Viacom owns and they do absolutely nothing with them. A smaller company like Mirage was bound to use their only popular IP again and Laird is an old man so the turtles would've outlived him even if he didn't want to do anything more and had plenty of opportunities. Viacom shelving the franchise to rot is a genuine concern.

I hope it doesn't happen, I mean I think it's likely a new movie reboot would go "back to its roots" after the current take stops after the third or however many it makes. And I think a new show would either take a more comedic route or just try something totally new to separate itself from the 2k3 and Nick shows. Similar to how Batman cartoons had trouble after BTAS, I consider the nick show to be like The Batman which wasn't bad but it was just hard to follow BTAS.

I'm intrigued about the IDW comic now after reading Powder's description, a blend of all universes is something I wanted to see. The art always put me off though and seeing "mature" versions of so many OT things kind of rubbed me the wrong way thinking they were just pandering to adults who grew up with the OT. I guess I'll check it out in a few years when there's more storylines finished up or the series is over.