IDW multi-colored masks [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

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Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 09:57 AM

Alright, here we go. My first real thread, I hope people will find it interesting enough to respond :D.

So as most of you probably know the colored masks have started showing up in IDW's TMNT recently. First they were seen in preview art for infestation and now they've popped up in the Raphael one-shot.

What do you guys think would be an acceptable (or least unnacceptable) reason for them storywise to switch from all red to multi-colored masks?

My theory, assuming it's a permanent change, is that they all want to express themselves more as individuals but they still need a good reason to do that all of a sudden. It's also a little odd as they have been wearing all red bandana's for over a year now.

If it's a temporary change I really can't think of a valid reason why they would want to switch to different colors. At least so far.

I wish Tom Waltz would confirm if it was a definite or a temporary change, lol.

So anyway, what are your thoughts?

CyberCubed

12-11-2011, 10:02 AM

The real world reason is the colored masks are what most casual Turtle fans are used to so it was done to drive up sales. Perhaps Nick mandated they switch to color masks as well.

Most people never read the Mirage books who are picking up IDW now.

Cowabunga Carl

12-11-2011, 10:03 AM

I'm okay either way really. I mean the Mirage turtles had all red but it didn't really mean anything to me since the comics are in black and white. The majority of TMNT in color has had multicolored masks.

As a "clan" standpoint it makes since for them to have all one color. It shows unity.

But I can see them doing the color masks to "help" people keep who's who straight.

CyberCubed

12-11-2011, 10:09 AM

Agreed, Mirage and Image were always black and white anyway so it didn't matter. Volume 2 and some specials are the only exception.

Xav

12-11-2011, 10:15 AM

So as most of you probably know the colored masks have started showing up in IDW's TMNT recently. First they were seen in preview art for infestation and now they've popped up in the Raphael one-shot. Huh? I thought the other Turtles didn't appear in the Raphael one-shot?

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 10:16 AM

Personally I'm a fan of the all-red bandana's, though I used to be in the multi-colored bandana camp because they are more recognisable that way. However the ninja clan argument convinced me all-red is actually cooler.

I understand the real world reason of making them more recognisable to the public. But what I'm driving at is how will they explain this in-universe without upsetting fans of the all-red bandanas.

It would be weird if they'd just started to draw the TMNT with multi-colored bandana's from now on without ever mentioning how they started out with all red bandana's ever again.

I personally hope it's a temporary change, if not, I wouldn't lose interest as I'm used to multi-colored masks just the same but they should provide a really good reason for the change.

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 10:17 AM

Huh? I thought the other Turtles didn't appear in the Raphael one-shot?

They do, only for a panel or 2 though.

Donnie

12-11-2011, 10:41 AM

I don't mind the switch. I think the reason is going to be related to Raphael's entry into the group.

Here's a thought - do you guys think the reg. ed. of #6 showcase the TMNT in colored masks? Didn't Bobby C. say that he was holding out in showing it because there was a major spoiler?

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 11:13 AM

Donnie

12-11-2011, 11:55 AM

That would make sense Donnie. I am not sure how valid this is but I found this declined Leonardo micro series cover with Leonardo wearing a blue mask. Apparently it was declined because Nickelodeon didn't approve.
Here's the source: http://menton3.deviantart.com/#/d4ft817

Yeah, I believe that was a rejected variant for Infestation 2. The same artist is still doing a variant though, it's similar but a little better, still of Leo in blue. I'm personally not a fan of the style...

Cowabunga Carl

12-11-2011, 12:07 PM

When I think about it too the all red makes it feel a little less cartoonish. Maybe it's just me on that one but something about having them in different colors makes it seem less intense.

Donnie

12-11-2011, 12:30 PM

When I think about it too the all red makes it feel a little less cartoonish. Maybe it's just me on that one but something about having them in different colors makes it seem less intense.

Yeah, this is definitely true, at least in my opinion. I may prefer colors just a tad over all red, but I still like all red and there's no doubt about it that all red is overall a darker, more mature Turtles.

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 12:31 PM

Yeah, I believe that was a rejected variant for Infestation 2. The same artist is still doing a variant though, it's similar but a little better, still of Leo in blue. I'm personally not a fan of the style...

Looking at that cover I thought it would fit Infestation a lot more too despite the artist's claim that it was for Leonardo's one shot. Also the style of that cover is so out of sync with the ones we got for the other three turtles.

Oh, and speaking about the other turtle's covers, with Mikey there was some doubt but Donatello is definately wearing a red headband on the cover of his one shot. Curious.

Donnie

12-11-2011, 12:32 PM

Oh, and speaking about the other turtle's covers, with Mikey there was some doubt but Donatello is definately wearing a red headband on the cover of his one shot. Curious.

Yes, this is a good point. We haven't seen the variants yet though. Still haven't seen the Mikey variant, either.

sdp

12-11-2011, 12:52 PM

It could be a Nick mandate that they don't want brand confusion by having Leonardo wear Red, then again is the IDW comic violent? Because I doubt that is the brand they want to show with the turtles either.

But I think it has more to do with the fact that IDW sells based on nostalgia for the most part, look at all their licenses, and while everyone likes to pretend they are die hard Mirage fans the sales for Vol.4 show just how many of those actually are. Everyone and their mom has read #1 and like the idea of gritty turtles but besides that people are picking this up because of the OT.

Counting this isn't part of Mirage continuity and it's already taken plenty of liberties I don't see why many people would care about the change. I mean they're definitely the minority. I could see people getting angry if it was Mirage continuity or coloring the bandannas of the Mirage issues.

Andrew NDB

12-11-2011, 01:26 PM

I'll repost:

There is no sense in the TMNT having different colored bandannas. None. I don't say this as a Mirage purist, I strictly say this out of logic and good sense. I mean, hell, give them all BLACK bandannas (or no bandannas) if you must, but whatever they should be adorned with it should not be rainbow/mood-colored ones. Unless the TMNT universe in question will be so drastically different from the Mirage universe that the TMNT are no longer a ninja clan (I'm actually a supporter of the "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" title for the rainbow-bandannaed TMNT... as they're not ninjas in that and the storylines in those basically make them nonsense superheroes or vigilantes or something equally rubbish), ninja clans have one color (or no color at all). As soon as you enter into account a ninja clan with members all picking different mood-colors for their bandannas to make metrosexual fashion statements or to say, "I'm different!" then the whole thing becomes a sham. I don't want the TMNT to be a sham, do you?

"But I have trouble telling them apart when they don't have different colored bandannas!!!"

#1: A lot can be achieved in artistic variation of the Turtles in body types, facial features, and even skin tones (though varying the skin colors too much becomes odd when it's too drastic... they're all supposed to be red-earred sliders and brothers, and it's not like you'd ever see a brown red-earred slider come out of one egg and a forest green red-earred slider come out of the one next to it). And it's not often that you see a Turtle without his trademark weapon anyway.
#2: It's possible you're a moron. Sorry.

"But in all the TMNT spinoff universes they have different colored bandannas!!!"

#1: It's neither the source material's (in which they all wore red) fault or any reflection on the source material.
#2: The spinoff universes are geared for little kids and otherwise had to be toy conscious (you know, "buy me the blue one, Mommy!" and this whole kind of New Kids on the Block-esque deal where little girls can bond/fawn over the one that best suits their mood, etc.)... so why support commercialism, when it's contrary to the spirit of what you're following?

"Aw, c'mooon, guys... I really, really, really liked the children's cartoons when I was like 6 and to me Leo will always be blue, Mikey orange, and Donnie purple!!!"

#1: You can get all of those cartoons on DVD and rekindle the sanctity of your childhood at your leisure.
#2: Chances are if you're on this forum you're already out of the target audience/demographic for TMNT in the mass media, whether you're talking about movies or new cartoons or whatever. The new generation of toddlers and little kids do not care about your childhood -- why should they?

"Who CARES what color their bandannas are?!?"

You should. That is, if you don't want your TMNT to be a sham.

oldschoolturtlesfan

12-11-2011, 01:46 PM

Andrew NDB

12-11-2011, 01:54 PM

I am not a fan of the colored bandannas. I truly believe they should stay all red. Why didn't they just start the series with colored bandannas if that is the direction they wanted to take? I will continue to read either way, but it will definitely be disappointing.

What's really puzzling to me is why they went to all the trouble of making the Turtles' skin colors so different and like the action figures when the plan all along was to add the rainbow bandannas anyway. Rainbow bandannas and the different skin colors is too much, and a little insulting to readers (you know, "We don't trust you to know who this is so we're going to really, really make sure you know!").

Donnie

12-11-2011, 02:56 PM

What's really puzzling to me is why they went to all the trouble of making the Turtles' skin colors so different and like the action figures when the plan all along was to add the rainbow bandannas anyway. Rainbow bandannas and the different skin colors is too much, and a little insulting to readers (you know, "We don't trust you to know who this is so we're going to really, really make sure you know!").

That's a good point...

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 03:05 PM

I am not a fan of the colored bandannas. I truly believe they should stay all red. Why didn't they just start the series with colored bandannas if that is the direction they wanted to take? I will continue to read either way, but it will definitely be disappointing.

I don't think we should panic about the colors yet, it might still be a temporary thing. Like I said above, the Donatello cover still has him wearing a red mask and I think it takes place after Raph's one-shot in which he wears purple. Maybe they will switch to color for a while and then at some moment stop and think "what the hell are we doing?".

I'm as baffled as you guys as to what the reason of them wearing the colored bands all of a sudden is though, be it temporary or permanent. Feel free to post your theories.

Andrew NDB

12-11-2011, 03:07 PM

I don't think we should panic about the colors yet, it might still be a temporary thing. Like I said above, the Donatello cover still has him wearing a red mask and I think it takes place after Raph's one-shot in which he wears purple. Maybe they will switch to color for a while and then at some moment stop and think "what the hell are we doing?".

I'm as baffled as you guys as to what the reason of them wearing the colored bands all of a sudden is though, be it temporary or permanent. Feel free to post your theories.

I must admit, if it turns out the colored bandanna things are just a temporary thing, something the Turtles "try out" for whatever reason before getting smacked upside their heads by Splinter to stop being emo and then going back to the reds... I'd be very pleasantly surprised.

Samhain

12-11-2011, 03:08 PM

Wait, has Tom or anyone from IDW confirmed that they would be switching to colored bandanas?! Because if that's the case, I'm gonna be dissapointed.

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 03:12 PM

Wait, has Tom or anyone from IDW confirmed that they would be switching to colored bandanas?! Because if that's the case, I'm gonna be dissapointed.

Nope, but the cold hard fact is that the turtles were wearing them in the last issue.

Andrew NDB

12-11-2011, 03:14 PM

Wait, has Tom or anyone from IDW confirmed that they would be switching to colored bandanas?!

There is a mounting pile of evidence to indicate things are going that way. Rainbow bandannas are on the TMNT in the Infestation 2 material (which takes place after TMNT #5, or TMNT #6), rainbow bandannas on the TMNT at the end of the Raphael special (which takes place after TMNT #5), that the cover of #6 is not being shown because of a "major spoiler," and a general... let's call it a "playful evasiveness" whenever the colored bandanna question is brought up in the lettercol and elsewhere.

All signs seem to be pointing to them putting them on in #5. Let's hope the reason isn't something silly, borderline racist like Raphael going, "Huh? You all look the same to me, I don't know who's who!" despite them all having very different skin colors, bodies, and faces.

Samhain

12-11-2011, 03:18 PM

There is a mounting pile of evidence to indicate things are going that way. Rainbow bandannas are on the TMNT in the Infestation 2 material (which takes place after TMNT #5, or TMNT #6), rainbow bandannas on the TMNT at the end of the Raphael special (which takes place after TMNT #5), that the cover of #6 is not being shown because of a "major spoiler," and a general... let's call it a "playful evasiveness" whenever the colored bandanna question is brought up in the lettercol and elsewhere.

All signs seem to be pointing to them putting them on in #5.

But, the cover of issue 7 has them in all red. And there is also a cover for Infestation of them in all red. Man, what's the deal? I like my comic turtles in RED. They can wear whatever they want in a cartoon, show, movie, ect. I don't care. But I want my comics with red bandanas! Jeez, can we not atleast have that small part of the pie?

Here we go again. If this turns out to be true, my excitement every month for a new issue will go down. Yeah, not sure why, but the bandana color is THAT important to me.:x

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 03:28 PM

For now I think I'm just gonna hold on to the fact that Tom Waltz said the ninja family aspect was important to him and the red bandana's are a major part of that.

Matches Malone

12-11-2011, 04:53 PM

Let's hope the reason isn't something silly, borderline racist like Raphael going, "Huh? You all look the same to me, I don't know who's who!" despite them all having very different skin colors, bodies, and faces.

I'd also like to add that I'm sure the turtles have their own distinct voices (in the comic universe, of course). That alone should be enough to help differentiate between turtles. If we watched the live action ninja turtle movies and colored their bandanas red, I'd be surprised if people couldn't tell that was Raphael by his Brooklyn accent, Donatello by his Corey Feldman impression, etc...

I am really hoping they stick with red bandanas too, but at the same time, I don't think Tristan would say that he has a good reason if he didn't truly believe so. I have no problem admitting people can be smarter or more creative than myself, so I'll just see if this is one of those cases when I read the issue!

Andrew NDB

12-11-2011, 05:03 PM

I'd also like to add that I'm sure the turtles have their own distinct voices

Another good point.

I am really hoping they stick with red bandanas too, but at the same time, I don't think Tristan would say that he has a good reason if he didn't truly believe so. I have no problem admitting people can be smarter or more creative than myself, so I'll just see if this is one of those cases when I read the issue!

You see, I get the whole "Now hold on a minute guys, maybe there's like a really good story behind the Turtles getting the rainbow bandannas -- you never know!" thing, because maybe there is. You see, I'm pretty sure next week DC could commission Neil Gaiman to write an amazing, amazing heart-wrenching story to explain how and why Batman will suddenly start wearing a tutu in the pages of Batman and Detective Comics. Seriously, with the right writing and high enough caliber of creativity/storytelling, just about anything can be made to work and be moving, even Batman in a tutu by Neil Gaiman -- it might even win accolades, critical acclaim, and people that never thought Batman could wear a tutu might even be converted into believers.

But we would still arrive at a situation where Batman is wearing a tutu. And that sucks.

Toby Barrett

12-11-2011, 05:18 PM

The turtles are wearing red on issue #7's cover. I seriously doubt the oh-so devious spoiler has anything to do with something so insignificant as freaking bandanas. Christ.

TristanHuwJones

12-11-2011, 05:33 PM

Andrew NDB

12-11-2011, 05:36 PM

The turtles are wearing red on issue #7's cover.

Solicit cover colors are seldom definitive and final, so that's not real good proof either way. And covers are seldom an accurate representation of a given issue's events in any comic.

Though it's at least a little bit reassuring, I'll admit.

I seriously doubt the oh-so devious spoiler has anything to do with something so insignificant as freaking bandanas. Christ.

It may not at all, it's true. Could be the Technodrome on it, could be a big Shredder reveal, or it could be boys turning into baby turtles.

That example's a little excessive though and catering more to your personal disliking of the situation.

I'm not claiming to represent anyone's opinions but my own. If I'm using a bit of hyperbole it's just to better illustrate my point.

Realistically, it's more akin to Batman going from his current suit to a red and blue one.

If you want to be technical, wouldn't it be more akin to Batman going from his current suit... to a rainbow one?

OK, admittedly the Zur En Arrh Batman was pretty cool, I guess...

Toby Barrett

12-11-2011, 05:46 PM

Nah.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/06/tec241.jpg
I'd still buy it.

TristanHuwJones

12-11-2011, 05:52 PM

If you want to be technical, wouldn't it be more akin to Batman going from his current suit... to a rainbow one?

OK, admittedly the Zur En Arrh Batman was pretty cool, I guess...

LOL! Yeah! He was, see! But to answer, technically no, because it's one colour -- if Robin, Nightwing and Batgirl ALL changed, sure, but each character is only changing once. It's also not done to make fun of anything, which I'm almost certain putting Batman in a tutu could ever only do. The general populace would never be able to take batman seriously in a tutu, regardless of what he does, whereas here it's only a fanbase division. Some people just don't care, some do. Pretty sure EVERYONE would turn their heads to a Batman in a tutu. ;)

Matches Malone

12-11-2011, 06:36 PM

Another good point.

You see, I get the whole "Now hold on a minute guys, maybe there's like a really good story behind the Turtles getting the rainbow bandannas -- you never know!" thing, because maybe there is. You see, I'm pretty sure next week DC could commission Neil Gaiman to write an amazing, amazing heart-wrenching story to explain how and why Batman will suddenly start wearing a tutu in the pages of Batman and Detective Comics. Seriously, with the right writing and high enough caliber of creativity/storytelling, just about anything can be made to work and be moving, even Batman in a tutu by Neil Gaiman -- it might even win accolades, critical acclaim, and people that never thought Batman could wear a tutu might even be converted into believers.

But we would still arrive at a situation where Batman is wearing a tutu. And that sucks.

Well, those who are converted wouldn't think it sucks, right? And what you're talking about almost sounds like blurring the line between good writing and... hypnotism. There are plenty of cases where I was proven wrong and I don't wish I never read a story that convinced me that something I used to think sucked was cool. Alan Moore showed me that a cheesy b-movie-esque monster (Swamp Thing) could be amazingly cool and I'm glad he did.

Sure we can and ought to exercise some discretion on what's worth giving a shot, but as you pointed out with your admission of hyperbole, I don't think rainbow bandanas are as huge of a leap as a tutu-wearing Batman because even if I'm sold on the story, I would still not prefer that visual design (as close to "objectively stupid" as you can get, which I think was your intent). My reason for preferring red bandanas is not entirely aesthetic, so if there is a convincing reason for the change, I won't be sad that I now like different colored bandanas. If you simply hate the look, then as Tristan pointed out, that is a preference thing.

Shockdingo

12-11-2011, 07:16 PM

Utromshredderhater

12-11-2011, 09:15 PM

I'm all for multi color. Never did get why everyone liked all red, it doesn't make them anymore badass

Kendamu

12-11-2011, 10:06 PM

I'm in the minority, but while I like the red bandanas I would just shrug if they changed it. I'm having way too much fun with this series to be bothered by them changing it. I can see why it would bother people, but, it's not a huge problem for me.
You're in the minority, but you're not alone. Red or colored, I really don't care. The Turtles can wear whatever colors they want the same way I can wear any workout shirt I want to my Kickboxing class.

Powder

12-11-2011, 11:29 PM

it doesn't make them anymore badass

Will there ever come a time where you stop acting as if your opinions are facts?

Hermano Dyvas

12-11-2011, 11:49 PM

I'm all for multi color. Never did get why everyone liked all red, it doesn't make them anymore badass

Actually I think it does, the ninja clan aspect of the red bandana's makes them a lot more badass. But again, if they can provide a good enough reason to switch to colorbands it wouldn't freak me out, but it probably wouldn't change my opinion that all red is more fitting to the grittier tone of the comic.

CrazySquirrel

12-12-2011, 11:50 AM

I actually really like that this comic is slowly becoming a combination of everything I like about all of the Turtles different universes! I am starting to get a feel of this being like a more serious version of the Adventures universe and that is EXACTLY what I wanted from this comic!!!

I also liked that they started out all red and then I am assuming there will be a storyline reason to turn to their more mainstream colored bandanas. I don't care if the Turtles are in black and white or color because as long as their personalities shine through you can tell who's who.

It feels like they are taking the best parts of all the universes and making the best combination possible. I was hoping for this in the Nick show but I think we are going to get it in the comics and that actually makes me even happier!

Hermano Dyvas

12-12-2011, 12:17 PM

TomWaltz

12-12-2011, 12:44 PM

Watching you awesome fans debate is like a great day at the beach -- the waves can get a bit choppy but, man, the water's fine! Love it!

:tgrin:

ToTheNines

12-12-2011, 12:50 PM

Coming from someone who loves the Mirage comics, 4kids show, Fred Wolf cartoon, the first movie and the Archie books all the same, I hate the idea of IDW's TMNT wearing multi-color headbands.

I'd let it slide if they wore different colors when just hanging out around the lair/casey's place and put on the all red when they were going into battle, but that scene in Raphael #1 was just jarring.

What's majorly annoying is the confusion around it all, too. First Tristan's acting like they put them on for the first time in Infestation (which looks like it's taking place after the second story arc), then we have them wearing them in a pre-#6 story with absolutely no in-story explanation or word from the creative team, then they're wearing red in the cover to #7 and were' not allowed to see #6's just yet.

I hate to bitch because I love what this book's been doing so far, but it just doesn't feel right. Red headbands please.

Hermano Dyvas

12-12-2011, 01:12 PM

My first thread and it's already got comments from tristan and Tom Waltz himself, is it weird to feel proud? :D

Too bad he still didn't confirm anything about the subject :P

Come on Tom, give us the goods.

Master Splinter

12-12-2011, 01:20 PM

I don't care what color masks they have, just take my damn money and print more comics!

-ms

TomWaltz

12-12-2011, 02:40 PM

1984TMNT

12-12-2011, 03:00 PM

Doh!! Curse you, Tom Waltz!! Tonight I dine on Tur...err...Tom Soup!!

Hermano Dyvas

12-12-2011, 03:08 PM

Doh!! Curse you, Tom Waltz!! Tonight I dine on Tur...err...Tom Soup!!

couldn't have phrased it better myself :lol:. I fell for that like a sucker.

Andrew NDB

12-12-2011, 03:53 PM

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWi4cdHQVg

Or if, alternately, you would prefer some "goodies":

YtC92pzp5vw

Toby Barrett

12-12-2011, 04:20 PM

Did anyone think that there IS no in universe reason the turtles are wearing colored bandanas? It's possible it's just because of the colorists' preference.

Utromshredderhater

12-12-2011, 04:25 PM

Will there ever come a time where you stop acting as if your opinions are facts?

If your gonna insult me every time I post, BACK OFF AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

Andrew NDB

12-12-2011, 04:34 PM

Did anyone think that there IS no in universe reason the turtles are wearing colored bandanas? It's possible it's just because of the colorists' preference.

Editorial oversight, you mean? No, not really. Plus didn't the artist mention on DeviantArt flat out that the Turtles will be ditching their red bandannas shortly in the comic?

Powder

12-12-2011, 04:36 PM

Rooish

12-12-2011, 04:52 PM

A lot of people state their opinions like it's fact, and due it way more arrogantly than that person did. Back off.

Samhain

12-12-2011, 04:54 PM

The fact is why change something like this if the book if it is selling so well? In my opinion the comic turtles should always wear red headbands. All other media gets muti-colored, why can't the comic stay true to it's roots? I'm really sick of people saying, ''why 4 Raphelz''?

pannoni1

12-12-2011, 04:55 PM

I could care less about this normally whenever I hear "new TMNT", but whatever style the turtles use in the first issue/episode, I prefer that for the rest of the series except if some legitimate explanation told why the turtles have different headbands. It's no worse than having Mike switching his weapon from Nunchucks to a grappling hook. Sure, we have some fans disapproving on the switch, but others (and everybody should) simply accept change and move on. And honestly through all of the merchandise I see, approximately 98% of all turtles merchandise has the colored bandanas, so it's easy to see what is more popular.

ToTheNines

12-12-2011, 04:58 PM

but others (and everybody should) simply accept change and move on.

Well that's kind of a defeatist attitude, don't ya think?

Utromshredderhater

12-12-2011, 05:00 PM

A lot of people state their opinions like it's fact, and due it way more arrogantly than that person did. Back off.

Me or him?

Cowabunga Carl

12-12-2011, 05:19 PM

Sure, we have some fans disapproving on the switch, but others (and everybody should) simply accept change and move on.

So every time something happens that you don't like you just accept it and move on? I

If people feel strongly about this they should voice their opinions. There are people who work for the company that come to these boards. While I know that we are not the majority of the people buying the book we are a big chunk. We are the one's who have stuck by this franchise through all the different phases. If there are anyone that the writers want to take into consideration I'd think it would be the fans.

I'm not saying they are going to. But this gives us a chance to have a small voice. Maybe Nick is telling them they need colored bandanas cause that's what sells. Buy us saying "Hey no wait!" they can go back and say "look the fans like them all in red."

Rooish

12-12-2011, 05:25 PM

Me or him?

Him. You were just stating your opinion dude.

My opinion is, I always liked the look of the rainbow headbands better but can understand why people would like the more "clannish" red bandannas. But still, I don't think it's gonna drive away any new readers to have them have rainbow bandannas.

ToTheNines

12-12-2011, 05:26 PM

Maybe Nick is telling them they need colored bandanas cause that's what sells.

Which makes no sense because these red-clad TMNT are IDW's highest selling book right now.

But still, I don't think it's gonna drive away any new readers to have them have rainbow bandannas.

No, just the old ones.

Andrew NDB

12-12-2011, 05:31 PM

Rooish

12-12-2011, 06:38 PM

No, just the old ones.

Well... I guess we'll see. It would suck indeed if old fans stopped buying the comic. But someone needs to post that they have indeed stopped buying them for me to be convinced.

At this point I almost want them to put the rainbow bandannas on them for a couple of issues just so I can point at the sales charts for those months and go, "See? You see? Rainbow Turtles don't sell additional copies."

I would like to see that too, but more importantly, I want someone to be transparent about whether this is all about Nick being over-controlling.

oldschoolturtlesfan

12-12-2011, 06:45 PM

I would like to see that too, but more importantly, I want someone to be transparent about whether this is all about Nick being over-controlling.

I would like to know this also. If Nick wants pretty rainbow colors there is no way around it. If it is just because then that's a different story and really sucks.

CyberCubed

12-12-2011, 09:49 PM

ToTheNines

12-12-2011, 09:51 PM

Just curious, would people here be complaining as much if the Turtles had colored bandanas since the first issue?

Because I think the whole bait-and-switch thing is what pissed people off, but if they had the colors from the beginning I think aside from maybe Andrew and a few others, most wouldn't be complaining.

Like I said over at the IDW boards, it would have been fine by me. I would have lamented the lack of read for a post or two and got over it once the series kicked off. Feels like a total **** tease giving us all red to start out with and then turning the tables.

Powder

12-12-2011, 10:14 PM

Like I said over at the IDW boards, it would have been fine by me. I would have lamented the lack of read for a post or two and got over it once the series kicked off. Feels like a total **** tease giving us all red to start out with and then turning the tables.

Again, I agree with my man over here.

CyberCubed

12-12-2011, 10:56 PM

At this point I almost want them to put the rainbow bandannas on them for a couple of issues just so I can point at the sales charts for those months and go, "See? You see? Rainbow Turtles don't sell additional copies."

Almost.

They wouldn't decrease either though.

But I agree anyone buying this series isn't doing so based on what color bandanas the Turtles have.

Matches Malone

12-12-2011, 11:19 PM

Maybe Nick is telling them they need colored bandanas cause that's what sells. Buy us saying "Hey no wait!" they can go back and say "look the fans like them all in red."

I want someone to be transparent about whether this is all about Nick being over-controlling.

I would like to know this also. If Nick wants pretty rainbow colors there is no way around it. If it is just because then that's a different story and really sucks.

Here is a quote from Bobby Curnow, the editor over at IDW, on the IDW forums from about a week and a half ago.

As with any license holder (at least that I've had to deal with at IDW), Nick has to approve everything. That includes proposals, finished scripts, and art work.

That being said there are no directives, nothing we must do. (Well, at the start we had a mutual discussion about general tone and direction, but we all happened to be on the same page). We're free to come up with whatever we want, and nothing has been forced on us because of the upcoming 'toon or whatever.

There have been a couple ideas, and some art work that I thought was pretty cool, that was either been rejected or a substantial tweak was asked for. So I don't agree with them 100% of the time, but that's to be expected in any creative relationship. By and large, I've agreed with the large majority of what they've had to say, and in a couple instances they've come up with a good fix on something we were stumped with.

I hope that answers the question.

This may not put to rest the conspiracy theories about Nick's control over the comic since only those involved truly know what the conversations are like with Nick, but this is as direct and upfront as it gets.

Donnie

12-13-2011, 09:55 AM

If they do wind up going with colored, I hope they keep the different skin tones. It will be a bit like the old figures, which I personally liked a lot. Come to think of it, the skin tones as they have them now (looking at it) would go very well with their respective colors...

Hermano Dyvas

12-13-2011, 10:32 AM

At this point I almost want them to put the rainbow bandannas on them for a couple of issues just so I can point at the sales charts for those months and go, "See? You see? Rainbow Turtles don't sell additional copies."

Almost.

I'm not convinced it's going to be a permanent thing entirely yet so you may still get to do this. Though I admit, the odds that it will be a temporary thing are probably very very small.

Do you think perhaps the IDW turtles are going to switch back and forth, like in color in their spare time and all red when they go on a mission? I'm not sure how I'd feel about something like that. I think it would overcomplicate things a bit though.

What do you guys think?

Andrew NDB

12-13-2011, 11:52 AM

I'm not convinced it's going to be a permanent thing entirely yet so you may still get to do this. Though I admit, the odds that it will be a temporary thing are probably very very small.

Do you think perhaps the IDW turtles are going to switch back and forth, like in color in their spare time and all red when they go on a mission? I'm not sure how I'd feel about something like that. I think it would overcomplicate things a bit though.

What do you guys think?

If they start switching back and forth between all red and the rainbow bunch, that makes them seem even more emo than if they just stuck with the fruity pebbles bandannas.

Donatello: "*sigh* The weather is just dreadful today. Yes, it feels like a red bandanna day today... or maybe it's a purple bandanna day. Hmmm... I can't decide! What do you think, Leo?"

God, please, no... no one of sound mind actually wants that, do they?

Hermano Dyvas

12-13-2011, 12:13 PM

Matches Malone

12-13-2011, 12:20 PM

If they start switching back and forth between all red and the rainbow bunch, that makes them seem even more emo than if they just stuck with the fruity pebbles bandannas.

Donatello: "*sigh* The weather is just dreadful today. Yes, it feels like a red bandanna day today... or maybe it's a purple bandanna day. Hmmm... I can't decide! What do you think, Leo?"

God, please, no... no one of sound mind actually wants that, do they?

Let's hope whichever they go with, they stick with it. It was already a bit disorienting and disappointing to see a switch in Raphael #1 with no explanation whatsoever... Hopefully #5 will provide some satisfying answers. While that's still my hope, I must admit that the idea suggested by Tristan in that colored bandannas being akin to Batman changing suits doesn't instill a lot of faith since I'm personally not really a fan of that aside from some practical use (i.e. underwater batsuit, space batsuit??!, etc.) Hard to imagine colored bandannas being more practical...

Birdman37

12-13-2011, 02:46 PM

Can someone explain to me why the single colored bandanas or "rainbow" colored ones is such a big deal? i just dont get it...

Venom

12-13-2011, 02:48 PM

I wonder pupils will show up?

Granted, I wouldn't mind them at all if they had pupils, especially if it were when the Turtles were maskless.

Matches Malone

12-13-2011, 02:57 PM

Can someone explain to me why the single colored bandanas or "rainbow" colored ones is such a big deal? i just dont get it...

While I've said a good amount about it, it's mostly because I think too much and not because I think it's a big deal. I will definitely be fine with whatever happens, but I do think it takes you out of the story a bit when the turtles look a certain way and then inexplicably change appearances in the next issue, especially if you think of it from the "unified clan" aspect. That being said, you're right in that the issue of colored bandannas probably do not warrant this much discussion, and I'm not exactly helping with this post...

As for others, well, everyone has their personal hang-ups. Not really anything you can do about that. In the end, the bandannas don't have to mean anything at all, but those fans probably won't like that idea.

Powder

12-13-2011, 03:02 PM

Can someone explain to me why the single colored bandanas or "rainbow" colored ones is such a big deal? i just dont get it...

I would suggest reading the threads that address it. :trolleye:

Toby Barrett

12-13-2011, 03:07 PM

Nah, don't waste your time, it still won't make any sense.

Andrew NDB

12-13-2011, 03:08 PM

I would suggest reading the threads that address it. :trolleye:

Page 1 of this thread isn't a bad place to start either.

ToTheNines

12-13-2011, 05:18 PM

I wonder pupils will show up?

Granted, I wouldn't mind them at all if they had pupils, especially if it were when the Turtles were maskless.

I highly doubt that. I mean, Raph doesn't even have pupils with his mask off in this continuity.

TristanHuwJones

12-13-2011, 05:48 PM

Let's hope whichever they go with, they stick with it. It was already a bit disorienting and disappointing to see a switch in Raphael #1 with no explanation whatsoever... Hopefully #5 will provide some satisfying answers. While that's still my hope, I must admit that the idea suggested by Tristan in that colored bandannas being akin to Batman changing suits doesn't instill a lot of faith since I'm personally not really a fan of that aside from some practical use (i.e. underwater batsuit, space batsuit??!, etc.) Hard to imagine colored bandannas being more practical...

My point in saying that was more of a rebuttal of Andrew's, which I felt was an excessive example. The one I offered was, in my mind, a more level headed approach to the same example.

At the end of the day, people are getting way too hung up on something that you shouldn't be. There's a slew of good stories coming your way very soon. The whole mask thing is going to make complete sense, regardless of where you stand on the issue.

As for it being a sales move, unless you see advertising proudly proclaiming "now in MULTI-color!", it's a little odd to say. It definitely makes them more recognisable to a much greater percentage of the population (as much as it pains me, I still hear "Why is Raph using Leo's swords...?" and "Why do they all look like Raph?"), but that doesn't mean more people are going to pick it up. Chances are, those people interested in TMNT are already reading it, and at the end of the day, you know what's going to make more people read it? Great stories. As long as the stories are good and the art is good in comics, they'll continue to be read. If people are telling other people how good the stories and art are, more copies are likely to be sold. The color of the masks shouldn't even factor into that equation.

Coola Yagami

12-13-2011, 07:21 PM

The only colored bandanas I saw were in the Infestation crossover. While the others turtles didn't look as red as Raph, in Raph # 1, all 3 of them had the same darker shade of... whatever. And they were kinda in the background/shadows with Raph front and center. It was hard to tell if they were rainbowed or not.

Donnie

12-13-2011, 07:22 PM

As for it being a sales move, unless you see advertising proudly proclaiming "now in MULTI-color!", it's a little odd to say. It definitely makes them more recognisable to a much greater percentage of the population (as much as it pains me, I still hear "Why is Raph using Leo's swords...?" and "Why do they all look like Raph?"), but that doesn't mean more people are going to pick it up. Chances are, those people interested in TMNT are already reading it, and at the end of the day, you know what's going to make more people read it? Great stories. As long as the stories are good and the art is good in comics, they'll continue to be read. If people are telling other people how good the stories and art are, more copies are likely to be sold. The color of the masks shouldn't even factor into that equation.

I agree, Tristan. As long as dark stories are still being written with great character development, mask color really doesn't matter to me.

The only colored bandanas I saw were in the Infestation crossover. While the others turtles didn't look as red as Raph, in Raph # 1, all 3 of them had the same darker shade of... whatever. And they were kinda in the background/shadows with Raph front and center. It was hard to tell if they were rainbowed or not.

They are clearly (no matter what anybody from IDW may say) colored bandanas, even Mikey's looks orange and he is all the way in the background. Donnie's clearly looks purple. If they all had red, they wouldn't have made it such a questionable panel because Raphael is in red - Leo wasn't standing far from Raph - his bandana would have been visibly red. As it is, I would agree that Leo's was a bit of a mix between red & blue, but it looked colored to me.

ToTheNines

12-13-2011, 08:41 PM

Coola Yagami

12-13-2011, 08:47 PM

Stop kidding yourself.

I'm gonna have to re-check. I assume to avoid major issue 5 spoilers they didn't shove the Turtles front and center with their colors right out there.

ToTheNines

12-13-2011, 08:52 PM

I'm gonna have to re-check. I assume to avoid major issue 5 spoilers they didn't shove the Turtles front and center with their colors right out there.

I mean, it was pretty plain to me... I feel like if they were obviously red, no one would be debating it. And if they were red and we were still debating it, Tom and Bobby would say "those are red headbands you dumb little fu**ers!".

Samhain

12-13-2011, 09:01 PM

I mean, it was pretty plain to me... I feel like if they were red, no one would be debating it. And if the were red and we were still debating it, Tom and Bobby would say "those are red headbands you dumb little fu**ers!".

I think it's pretty obvious that the bandana change is indeed gonna happen, sinnce no one from IDW has denied it, like you said. This sucks, I like them in red.

Andrew NDB

12-13-2011, 09:09 PM

I think it's pretty obvious that the bandana change is indeed gonna happen, sinnce no one from IDW has denied it, like you said. This sucks, I like them in red.

Either way, I'm sure they must be getting a kick out of us bantering about the whole thing. I know I would.

Venom

12-13-2011, 09:26 PM

*sigh*

You know what, f*** it, let TPTB have their way and implement the colored bandanas; just give me quality stories that are geared toward and older audience and I'll get over it.

We may as well face and accept it: the Mirage Turtles are gone. Stuck in space; shrunk to an action figure, transformed to a dinosaur, and dining with another Shredder.

CyberCubed

12-13-2011, 09:28 PM

We may as well face and accept it: the Mirage Turtles are gone. Stuck in space; shrunk to an action figure, transformed to a dinosaur, and dining with another Shredder.

These weren't the Mirage Turtles anyway and we knew this from day 1, so I don't see why you're bringing this up.

Andrew NDB

12-13-2011, 09:29 PM

We may as well face and accept it: the Mirage Turtles are gone.

OK, but... whether the Turtles have all red bandannas vs. the rainbow variety is not about "I really want my Mirage TMNT back!" To me, at least, it's about "I really want the TMNT to wear bandannas that best symbolize that they're serious about their ninja clan and not be beholden to how many spinoff universes/merchandise did what with them."

That means the reds to me.

Kendamu

12-13-2011, 09:36 PM

*sigh*

You know what, f*** it, let TPTB have their way and implement the colored bandanas; just give me quality stories that are geared toward and older audience and I'll get over it.

'Cept for the f*ck it part, I agree. Colors. No colors. Whatever. I already said that, though.

We may as well face and accept it: the Mirage Turtles are gone. Stuck in space; shrunk to an action figure, transformed to a dinosaur, and dining with another Shredder.

As far as I see it, the definitive Mirage Turtles ending is the conclusion to City at War. Everything else is just stuff that's fun to read with a few things that could probably fit into that personal fanon of mine.

Donnie

12-13-2011, 10:18 PM

I think it's pretty obvious that the bandana change is indeed gonna happen, sinnce no one from IDW has denied it, like you said. This sucks, I like them in red.

Absolutely - all points to the change coming, most likely in #5.

Matches Malone

12-14-2011, 12:18 AM

My point in saying that was more of a rebuttal of Andrew's, which I felt was an excessive example. The one I offered was, in my mind, a more level headed approach to the same example.

At the end of the day, people are getting way too hung up on something that you shouldn't be. There's a slew of good stories coming your way very soon. The whole mask thing is going to make complete sense, regardless of where you stand on the issue.

As for it being a sales move, unless you see advertising proudly proclaiming "now in MULTI-color!", it's a little odd to say. It definitely makes them more recognisable to a much greater percentage of the population (as much as it pains me, I still hear "Why is Raph using Leo's swords...?" and "Why do they all look like Raph?"), but that doesn't mean more people are going to pick it up. Chances are, those people interested in TMNT are already reading it, and at the end of the day, you know what's going to make more people read it? Great stories. As long as the stories are good and the art is good in comics, they'll continue to be read. If people are telling other people how good the stories and art are, more copies are likely to be sold. The color of the masks shouldn't even factor into that equation.

Although you are quoting me, I'm assuming this response was intended to be directed towards those on this thread in general. As always, I appreciate thoughtful responses from anyone, and yours have generally been among them.

Regarding fans getting hung up about the bandannas, it is my opinion that we definitely have fans of varying interest and investment regarding this issue, as with any other thread. There are some who couldn't care less and others where it can "make or break" the series for them. For those in the latter category, I respect that their feelings and passion for TMNT are their own, but I am sorry if those kinds of things are more important than the overall quality of the series. In all honesty, I have minimal investment in things like the color of bandannas which, as you suggested, doesn't factor for me when deciding on buying this comic (which I am really enjoying). But since this thread is regarding that issue, these are my casual thoughts discussing it. I hope you didn't take offense to my comments, though in hindsight, the words "doesn't instill a lot of faith" was probably a tad inflammatory, which I apologize. I'm glad you did clarify the intent of the example you gave in any case.

Whether the explanation or transition for the bandannas ends up being satisfying or not, it will not cause me to be annoyed with the comic one bit since the quality has been so good so far, but I hope if it is personally unsatisfying, I can express that and not sound too whiny... :tsmile: I'm no writer and it takes a lot of effort and talent to be one, so all my criticisms are hopefully interpreted as respectful to that fact. Besides, blue is my favorite color.

TristanHuwJones

12-14-2011, 12:39 AM

Although you are quoting me, I'm assuming this response was intended to be directed towards those on this thread in general. As always, I appreciate thoughtful responses from anyone, and yours have generally been among them.

HAHA! Generally -- yeah, I'm about as passionate and hardheaded as anyone else here, but it's all down that old opinion thing in the end... some people share them, some people don't. So long as people are respectful of others at the end of the day, I think that's what's important. But yeah, that first line of my response was a response to your post directly, but it invoked the rest as a general post :)

Regarding fans getting hung up about the bandannas, it is my opinion that we definitely have fans of varying interest and investment regarding this issue, as with any other thread. There are some who couldn't care less and others where it can "make or break" the series for them. For those in the latter category, I respect that their feelings and passion for TMNT are their own, but I am sorry if those kinds of things are more important than the overall quality of the series. In all honesty, I have minimal investment in things like the color of bandannas which, as you suggested, doesn't factor for me when deciding on buying this comic (which I am really enjoying). But since this thread is regarding that issue, these are my casual thoughts discussing it. I hope you didn't take offense to my comments, though in hindsight, the words "doesn't instill a lot of faith" was probably a tad inflammatory, which I apologize. I'm glad you did clarify the intent of the example you gave in any case.

LOL, it's all good. It's a board. People tend to get a bit over excited, which I know all too well. I will admit to being one of those assholes that deliberately plays the Devil's Advocate a lot of the time just to keep people either on their toes or bring them a little bit further down to earth when I see arguments getting unnecessarily inflammatory or out of control altogether. But everyone's been pretty good about it all. If I ever have problems I tend to take them up with people directly. :)

Whether the explanation or transition for the bandannas ends up being satisfying or not, it will not cause me to be annoyed with the comic one bit since the quality has been so good so far, but I hope if it is personally unsatisfying, I can express that and not sound too whiny... :tsmile: I'm no writer and it takes a lot of effort and talent to be one, so all my criticisms are hopefully interpreted as respectful to that fact. Besides, blue is my favorite color.

Heheh! It's all good, and thanks for the kind words too, I'm sure Tom appreciates them as well. I've been saying it a lot, but these next few releases are going to be very interesting to see run free. I'm excited to see what the response is to Infestation, but there are a lot of very exciting things Bobby and Tom have lined up (Oh, and Brian of course -- and you're all in for a very special treat with those one-shots art wise!).

"I really want my Mirage TMNT back!" To me, at least, it's about "I really want the TMNT to wear bandannas that best symbolize that they're serious about their ninja clan and not be beholden to how many spinoff universes/merchandise did what with them."

While we've been back and forth on this reason, you're going to find that there's a very serious reason for the colour change that transcends it and I think you'll respect that when you see it.

Either way, I'm sure they must be getting a kick out of us bantering about the whole thing. I know I would.

Yup. It's half the fun! I'm having a ball in spite of how things may appear... ;) and I know Tom is as well!

Matches Malone

12-14-2011, 12:45 AM

Powder

12-14-2011, 12:59 AM

For the record, since I've become more like Andrew in my advocacy of the red bandanas, a change isn't a make or break deal for me.
It will bug me greatly at first, but anybody with a brain knows it won't change the quality of the writing and art.
It's just a design preference that we feel better reflects the tone of the series. After all, I have the rainbow TMNT tattooed on me.
Clearly I like them. Just depends on the universe.

TristanHuwJones

12-14-2011, 01:00 AM

Hah! You wrote "coloUr." You're from Australia. The end.

You wrote all this. I am confused. To be continued...?

Hermano Dyvas

12-14-2011, 10:31 AM

While we've been back and forth on this reason, you're going to find that there's a very serious reason for the colour change that transcends it and I think you'll respect that when you see it.

I can't wait to find out :)

I definately agree with your statement that it's all about the stories. I'm not too bothered with the color change as long as there is a good reason for it.

I trust your judgement on the stories because I really liked your stories from tales, especially #36, congratulations on that issue!

I'm looking forward to infestation.

Cowabunga Carl

12-14-2011, 11:18 AM

The colors only bother me as to me they signify a more childish toned Turtles like the shows and the red was the more adult. I'm sure that wont be the case with this comic but that's honestly way it bothers me.

Toby Barrett

12-14-2011, 11:25 AM

Hermano Dyvas

12-14-2011, 12:02 PM

As I said in the Raphael topic, I just now got and finished my issue. I don't see multicolor bandanas, I see Raphael wearing red and three turtles wearing purple.

Is this honestly what the whole recent uproar was about?

They're multi-colored mate. Tristan practically confirmed it as well. We're not debating a mass delusion here.

Toby Barrett

12-14-2011, 12:17 PM

I'm not gonna argue about it. I see three purple bandanas.

Andrew NDB

12-14-2011, 12:20 PM

I'm not gonna argue about it. I see three purple bandanas.

0NFITME0zI8

ToTheNines

12-14-2011, 12:40 PM

I'm not gonna argue about it. I see three purple bandanas.

No sense in arguing when you're 100 percent wrong. I like your style :D

Toby Barrett

12-14-2011, 12:48 PM

EDIT: **** that noise, I'm out.

Xav

12-14-2011, 01:07 PM

I trust your judgement on the stories because I really liked your stories from tales, especially #36, gongratulations on that issue! Are you trying to combine Casey's battle cry with congratulations?

Hermano Dyvas

12-14-2011, 02:08 PM

Are you trying to combine Casey's battle cry with congratulations?

ummmyeah, let's go with that :roll:
I amended it just in case other ppl don't get it :D

Donnie

12-14-2011, 05:54 PM

I'm not gonna argue about it. I see three purple bandanas.

That's rather peculiar, and clearly doesn't match up with what 99.9% of the forum sees.

Toby Barrett

12-14-2011, 06:05 PM

So I've heard, I ****ing get it. Apparently either I'm lying or my eyes are ****ed up. I get it.

King Suck

12-14-2011, 06:07 PM

Vegeta

12-14-2011, 08:57 PM

Powder

12-14-2011, 09:03 PM

I don't see why it matters either way. If they keep the red bandannas then they pay homage to the old stuff which is cool, if we get the colored masks then we can actually know which character is which without having to have eastman spoon feed readers names within the dialogue.

If weapons, personality, skin tone, belt style, & so on aren't enough of a clue to you as to who's who, then just quit while you're ahead.

Andrew NDB

12-14-2011, 09:04 PM

I don't see why it matters either way. If they keep the red bandannas then they pay homage to the old stuff

Well, that's one factor. But hardly what should be considered the chief motivating factor behind doing so.

if we get the colored masks then we can actually know which character is which without having to have eastman spoon feed readers names within the dialogue.

If weapons, personality, skin tone, belt style, & so on aren't enough of a clue to you as to who's who, then just quit while you're ahead.

Yes, this. If you still can't tell who's who with all of those things, then you don't deserve to.

Andrew NDB

12-14-2011, 09:07 PM

In color blindness (http://www.iamcal.com/toys/colors/whatis.php) its pretty much unheard of to be able to see red but not any of its variations (orange, yellow, etc...). Still id see a eye dr. cuz this thread is a hell of a way to find out something might be wrong.

Though I dunno... there's some weird eye/color perception stuff out there. It's hard to describe, but my left eye sees colors differently than my right one. Always has. To use the Photoshop equivalent... it's like my left eye has the hue turned up a little bit and the saturation a little bit down.

I wouldn't necessarily rule out that Toby is literally not seeing the other colors there, especially if they're kinda subdued.

Meanwhile, I still don't have the goddamn issue to even venture an opinion of my own. Now I'm being told next week.

Vegeta

12-14-2011, 09:11 PM

I'm not moron, I know their weapons and variations on the characters. I just noticed the names constantly being stated within dialogue between the turtles. Almost in an unnecessary fashion. I have been away from the old comics for a while so excuse my ignorance if this is always the case within tmnt comics.

ToTheNines

12-14-2011, 09:12 PM

if we get the colored masks then we can actually know which character is which without having to have eastman spoon feed readers names within the dialogue.

Well dude, it worked for Mirage/Image for over 25 years in their black and white comics. I don't see why we should stop now just because it's in color.

Coola Yagami

12-14-2011, 10:11 PM

Yeah, after closer examination, I did notice hints of blue and purple in Leo and Don's masks... After seeing how dark they look in the Infestation cameo, I wonder if that's how they will be portrayed, with real dark, almost black, Blue and Purple bandanas.

Venom

12-14-2011, 10:47 PM

Hermano Dyvas

12-15-2011, 11:23 AM

Well dude, it worked for Mirage/Image for over 25 years in their black and white comics. I don't see why we should stop now just because it's in color.

Yeah, quite the contrary, in color the skin tones make it even easier to tell 'em apart.

Grimlock

12-15-2011, 12:46 PM

Hermano Dyvas

12-15-2011, 03:01 PM

I like them in red as well. That is what they originally wore and to me makes them more of a legit ninja clan, IMO. But from the looks of the covers I'm not sure if they are indeed changing them to rainbow. We shall see.

Tristan posted this in another thread today:

There may also be a slim possibility that the cover was done in advance of the colour change. I'm working on the covers to Ghostbusters #9 through to #12 and I know we aren't up to scripting those yet. Heck I don't even think #7's been scripted yet... We're working on #6 right now...

So I guess we shouldn't go by covers to predict what's going to happen.

I'm pretty sure they are going to change to multi-colored turtles now, it's okay, Tristan also said they will have a very good reason for doing so and I believe him.

I hope they will still at least reference what the red headbands stand for before they decide to change though.

Hermano Dyvas

12-15-2011, 03:06 PM

You know I was just thinking, it's funny how this thread is bigger then the "turtles might be human" thread.

You'd think people would be a lot more concerned about that then their fashion wear.

Candy Kappa

12-15-2011, 03:08 PM

Rainbow Bandannas... where's the other three turtles?

Grimlock

12-15-2011, 03:29 PM

Tristan posted this in another thread today:

So I guess we shouldn't go by covers to predict what's going to happen.

I'm pretty sure they are going to change to multi-colored turtles now, it's okay, Tristan also said they will have a very good reason for doing so and I believe him.

I hope they will still at least reference what the red headbands stand for before they decide to change though.

Does anyone actually think it's possible that someone can come up with a way to explain the bandana change that would make you say, ''Whoa, that's awesome'' or ''That makes sense''. I just can't. Sorry. This series started out with them wearing all red and now they are changing it. I don't really care what anyone says, they should stay with red. Those colored bandanas were created specifically for kids. Now they want to explain them having it in a ''cool'' way. I just don't get it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE turtles fan and I'm am down with IDW. I think they are doing an awesome job with the series but damn, the turtles in the comic book should have red bandanas. With the color change it feels a bit gimmicky, to appeal to the more casual Tmnt fan. The same fan that has no clue who Eastman or Laird even are. The red bandanas are more than just a color. They're a symbol. Rant over.

Matches Malone

12-15-2011, 03:58 PM

You know I was just thinking, it's funny how this thread is bigger then the "turtles might be human" thread.

You'd think people would be a lot more concerned about that then their fashion wear.

Well, there is actual evidence of the color change for the masks whereas the "turtles might be human" is pure speculation.

Venom

12-15-2011, 04:00 PM

Rainbow Bandannas... where's the other three turtles?

Slash, Venus, April that one time. :P

Solink

12-15-2011, 04:13 PM

When I first got interested in the IDW comics, I didn't get why there were 4 raphs 'cause I watched the 2k3 series ahah. But I now like the red bandanas better. I don't really know why.. I find them cooler that way! :tgrin:

Hermano Dyvas

12-15-2011, 04:26 PM

Does anyone actually think it's possible that someone can come up with a way to explain the bandana change that would make you say, ''Whoa, that's awesome'' or ''That makes sense''. I just can't. Sorry.

I can't either but I'm not a writer, I'll wait and see what reason IDW will throw at us.

1984TMNT

12-15-2011, 04:31 PM

You know I was just thinking, it's funny how this thread is bigger then the "turtles might be human" thread.

You'd think people would be a lot more concerned about that then their fashion wear.

Though not related to IDW, we could start talking about the Nick 3 toe thing..... :tsad: <stirring the pot>

Candy Kappa

12-15-2011, 04:52 PM

Slash, Venus, April that one time. :P

This should be in some form of artwork

Rainbow Turtles:lol:

MikeandRaph87

12-20-2011, 11:33 AM

Thanks for the heads up about the mask. Its so hard to figure out which turtle is which without the respective weapon in the panel. It would be cool if something was done similar to TMNT Adventures#71 and #72 which showed they all carried bo staffs at first in that continuity. Its easier for casual fans and die-hard fans to tell the TMNT apart. I know I struggle to do so even as a big fan. The colored mask are the most defiinitive trait that the '87 series gave us and I hope it does stick instead of jsut a storyline or so and we can keep Leo in blue, Mike in orange, and Don in purple. Even if there is a different green tone of their skin the mask are classic and definitive and one does not have to think who is who trying to remember who has what tone for the particular incarnation.

Andrew NDB

12-20-2011, 12:01 PM

Its so hard to figure out which turtle is which without the respective weapon in the panel.

That's pretty weird.

It would be cool if something was done similar to TMNT Adventures#71 and #72 which showed they all carried bo staffs at first in that continuity.

Even among TMNTA fans (and I am among them) pretty much that whole aspect of the storyline -- to say nothing of the storyline itself -- is regarded as much as horsesh*t as it is apocrypha.

Its easier for casual fans and die-hard fans to tell the TMNT apart. I know I struggle to do so even as a big fan.

This is a joke. You're making a joke, right? I have to believe this is some attempt at humor.

The colored mask are the most defiinitive trait that the '87 series gave us

Apart from the rash, you mean.

and I hope it does stick instead of jsut a storyline or so and we can keep Leo in blue, Mike in orange, and Don in purple.

Yeah... let's hope not.

Even if there is a different green tone of their skin the mask are classic and definitive and one does not have to think who is who trying to remember who has what tone for the particular incarnation.

Why stop there? Different colored skins, different colored bandannas, different weapons, different body types, different faces... let's go ahead and bring back the super iconic letters on their belt, too. Perhaps while we're at it, we can add different colors to the Turtles' eyes too. Or you know, on second thought sometimes it's hard to see the letters on their belts... the "R" sometimes looks like a "D" to me, so let's just go ahead and give them full-on nametags on their plastrons. That's something a ninja clan would do, right? Maybe the other ninjas they're fighting might get confused which one they're fighting.

http://www.ebaypartnernetworkblog.com/en/files/2011/05/hello-my-name-is.jpg

Toby Barrett

12-20-2011, 02:20 PM

Everyone's allowed their own opinion, it doesn't make them worse or better than anyone else.

Venom

12-20-2011, 04:50 PM

Yes, it does. Very much so.

Grimlock

12-20-2011, 04:54 PM

Even if there is a different green tone of their skin the mask are classic and definitive and one does not have to think who is who trying to remember who has what tone for the particular incarnation.

Seriously? Definitive? Dude, C'mon...

Toby Barrett

12-20-2011, 05:03 PM

Yes, it does. Very much so.

Explain to me.

Metropoliskid41

12-21-2011, 07:44 AM

I think that issue #5 explains the Red and multi-colored head bands very well. I really like how they did it, but that's just me.

Donnie

12-21-2011, 09:55 AM

I think that issue #5 explains the Red and multi-colored head bands very well. I really like how they did it, but that's just me.

We all know it's coming, but put spoiler tags around your posts if you're going to blurt stuff like that out.

Metropoliskid41

12-21-2011, 10:10 AM

I posted nothing new, I didn't say that they'll be sporting one or the other at all, just said they deal with that issue very well, this is nothing new, Bobby has made that comment numerous times.

Hermano Dyvas

12-22-2011, 10:23 AM

Alright, the cat's out of the bag it seems. I haven't read the issue yet but are there any red bandana fans who have been converted by IDW's reason for the colored bandana's?

Powder

12-22-2011, 03:02 PM

No. We accept it, realize it could be worse both in backstory & execution, but it's still a change that we don't care for.

ToTheNines

12-22-2011, 03:16 PM

No. We accept it, realize it could be worse both in backstory & execution, but it's still a change that we don't care for.

Yup.

I'll get over it.

Toby Barrett

12-22-2011, 03:22 PM

I prefer it this way anyway.

stormbringer

12-22-2011, 03:26 PM

I'm fine with the multi-color bandanas, sense that's what I'm most used to anyway.

Toby Barrett

12-22-2011, 03:53 PM

And now a word from Bobby himself.

Now that #5 is out I thought I'd share a little bit about the whole bandana thing.

Obviously, #5 spoilers here!

I'm kind of surprised how little I remember about the first days of this book... I guess a lot was going on, and I wasn't neck deep in all the decisions going on like I am now (Editor Scott Dunbier had a lot of the initial talks with Nickelodeon).

I think Nickelodeon was a little surprised that we wanted to go with red bandanas at the start, but to their immense credit, they never had any problem with it. I do think their surprise planted a seed of a thought in Tom's mind. I remember very early on Tom saying "you know, I think I have an idea of how to make the colored bandanas work."

I gave him a furrowed brow. My first exposure to Turtles was the toon, but my LAST big exposure, as a teenager, was to Mirage, Vol. 1-3 (shocking confession, I STILL haven't read all of Tales Vol. 2). I LOVED the red bandanas. They're bad ass. And we had established them in our IDW book. Why change to colored bandanas?

I expressed my reservation to Tom, but Kevin was all for the idea, so I decided to wait for the script.

And sure enough, I loved the script. It worked, and it felt organic. If we were EVER going to make the change, now was the time, story-wise. We're trying to make this a book a celebration of all Turtles that have come before (while adding some important new things, and moving forward), and it seemed like the script did that. I know some people love the red bandanas, and there are very valid arguments to be made in their favor. But to me at least, the switch didn't feel artificial. It felt like it fit in the story. At the end of the day, that's all that really matters to me. I was a skeptic of the color, and I was won over, so I can only hope others are too. I'm sure some aren't.

Moreover, we get tons of requests for the colored bandanas. To a lot of people THAT is what feels natural and normal. That being said, we also get tons of requests to keep them all red. There's a definite split. I hope that we've paid homage to the red bandanas in a truthful way. My heart still lies with them. There's the saying that if you try to please everyone, you please no one. Hopefully that's not the case here, and it's clear we're coming at it from a place of love and respect.

I tried my best to keep the switch a secret because I honestly believed the best way for the switch to be presented was how we did it in the story. Unfortunately some rumors got out, and it wasn't a very good secret, the past month or so.

And, of course, there is the Raph micro. That script was written and art was started before the #5 script was completed. Had #5 been completed, I would have had Raph changed so we don't see the other Turtles at all. (And I needed to have Raph take place after #5, cuz well... he needed his sais in that story!). So thus I asked the colorist on Raph to do the impossible... try and keep the Turtles in the shadows, and make their colors as muted as possible. He did an admirable job with an impossible task. I thought about just making them all red, to keep the secret, but that would make no sense to the four people who think about such things, after #5 was read. I'd rather the color surprise be spoiled a little than have something that made no sense (the Turtles all having red, even though Raph has his sais, so it's clearly post #5 in story continuity). This ended up being the right decision as word slipped out before Raph even hit the stands, regardless.

The covers for #7 and #8 also show all red bandanas. I've got other versions of those with color that will see print. I'll try and remember to share those when I get back. This all felt a little deceptive on my part, but I thought it was important to try and keep the surprise in #5, or at least not completely confirm any rumors.

There you have it. My thoughts on the issue. Dunno if this stuff is interesting at all, but thought I'd share.

http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=267376#267376

Hermano Dyvas

12-22-2011, 04:07 PM

Thanks Toby, that was an interesting post. I hope to find out for myself soon when I'll finally get to read #5.

Matches Malone

12-22-2011, 04:18 PM

So what Bobby is saying is... it's all Tom's fault. Just kidding. Not my preference, but I definitely respect and appreciate the love that is going into this project.

Andrew NDB

12-22-2011, 04:21 PM

So what Bobby is saying is... it's all Tom's fault.

Hah! I wasn't going to say it...

Powder

12-22-2011, 04:21 PM

"Moreover, we get tons of requests for the colored bandanas."

Yes, from casuals, who will drop the book before issue ten.

Toby Barrett

12-22-2011, 04:49 PM

Kevin was all for the idea too.

"Moreover, we get tons of requests for the colored bandanas."

Yes, from casuals, who will drop the book before issue ten.

You don't know that.

CyberCubed

12-22-2011, 04:53 PM

Kevin was all for the idea too.

You don't know that.

Kevin isn't as against the old toon stuff as Peter was. But I think he wanted all red for the series.

Candy Kappa

12-22-2011, 05:14 PM

I don't like it, but I'll still read the comic

Grimlock

12-22-2011, 05:15 PM

"Moreover, we get tons of requests for the colored bandanas."

Yes, from casuals, who will drop the book before issue ten.

I agree with this. It's about damn time people need to start realizing the turtles wore red originally. If in every continuity they have muti-colored bandanas, the number of idots saying, ''Is that Raph''? grows and grows. Now, we have no red bandana Tmnt.:(

Andrew NDB

12-22-2011, 05:30 PM

I agree with this. It's about damn time people need to start realizing the turtles wore red originally. If in every continuity they have muti-colored bandanas, the number of idiots saying, ''Is that Raph''? grows and grows.

That's probably the saddest part to me. The whole business about, "There's so many more people out there that know the TMNT as Blue, Orange, Purple, and Red!" ... well guess what? When this project could have helped raise awareness (at no detriment to itself, as the issues so far have proven) to a look more synonymous with the source material and the TMNT as the TMNT were always intended (before the toys, before the McTMNT™)... its jumping aboard the Rainbow Bandwagon only makes worse the very thing they're worried about.

It's like some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. You know the germaphobe assclown that goes to the public bathroom and closes the door with his shoe and flushes the toilet with his shoe because he doesn't want to touch any germs? Guess what happens to the next guy who goes into the stall who isn't a germaphobe... the poor bastard is gonna get a handful of sh*t the last guy kicked up onto the door and toilet handle from his dirty-ass shoe and probably get sick. <-- this is IDW on the bandanna issue.

That we know Nick/Viacom gave the red bandannas their full blessing ad nauseum only makes things even more sad and... I'll go ahead and say it (and I don't mean this personally)... yes, a little bit chicken sh*t. But I respect that Tom believes in his decision, even if I cannot agree with it.

If the writing or story or plotting were dodgy it would be easy to rip apart the whole thing... but that's simply not the case. Tom is a beast of a writer and he's managed to pretty well pull all of us into the yarn he's spinning. So far the bandanna issue is the one grimace-inducing thing of the whole affair, so as much as I do see it as an important issue and hate to see others downplay it as something that is not, I can't -- in good conscience -- throw the baby out with the bathwater over it.

Grimlock

12-22-2011, 05:36 PM

That's probably the saddest part to me. The whole business about, "There's so many more people out there that know the TMNT as Blue, Orange, Purple, and Red!" ... well guess what? When this project could have helped raise awareness (at no detriment to itself, as the issues so far have proven) to a look more synonymous with the source material and the TMNT as the TMNT were always intended (before the toys, before the McTMNT™)... its jumping aboard the Rainbow Bandwagon only makes worse the very thing they're worried about.

It's like some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. You know the germaphobe assclown that goes to the public bathroom and closes the door with his shoe and flushes the toilet with his shoe because he doesn't want to touch any germs? Guess what happens to the next guy who goes in there who isn't a germaphobe... they're gonna get a handful of sh*t the last guy kicked up onto the door and toilet handle and probably get sick. <-- this is IDW on the bandanna issue.

That we know Nick/Viacom gave the red bandannas their full blessing ad nauseum only makes things even more sad and... I'll go ahead and say it (and I don't mean this personally)... yes, a little bit chicken sh*t.

If the writing or story or plotting were dodgy it would be easy to rip apart the whole thing... but that's simply not the case. Tom is a beast of a writer and he's managed to pretty well pull all of us into the yarn he's spinning. So far the bandanna issue is the one grimace-inducing thing of the whole affair, so as much as I do see it as an important issue and hate to see others downplay it as something that is not, I can't -- in good conscience -- throw the baby out with the bathwater over it.

Well said sir. Well said.

Soooo, the explanation for the skittle bandanas is it was each of their favorite colors? Or is there more to that story? Because honestly if that's it, 'tis pretty goofy. Nick didn't even have an issue with the all red. Wtf. This was not a change that needed to be made and I'm extremely dissapointed in the change. Mirage is gone and so are the red bandana Tmnt.

Samhain

12-22-2011, 09:21 PM

My question is, why in the hell did we get covers with all 4 turtles together with red headbands? I realize the first few issue covers had nothing to do with the story but still, it's a little wonky.

Like I said, there really isn't any ''cool'' or interesting way to introduce the colored bandanas. I would have much rather them switched it up and say the turtles were wearing all red in honor of their mother, ya know? That way it means something and we can still keep the all red headbands to pay tribute to Eastman and Laird. I am LOVING everything IDW is doing so keep at it Tom, but the bandana change left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. And to hear Nick was okay with the all red makes it sting even worse. Still, fantastic issue. Can't wait for # 6!:D

Oh, and why can't Kevin's variant covers stay with the all red turtles? It's just a variant and if anyone's cover should have them in red it should be Kevin's.

Andrew NDB

12-22-2011, 09:29 PM

Oh, and why can't Kevin's variant covers stay with the all red turtles? It's just a variant and if anyone's cover should have them in red it should be Kevin's.

The answer would likely be "because that would be misleading/misrepresentational"... but then he already hasn't really been drawing the IDW TMNT with their kind of joint wraps and all that.

Slap-Happy

12-22-2011, 09:43 PM

The answer would likely be "because that would be misleading/misrepresentational"... but then he already hasn't really been drawing the IDW TMNT with their kind of joint wraps and all that.
Sam Kieth's #1 cover has colored bandanas. Kevin's still could have red bandanas.

Gyt Kaliba

12-22-2011, 09:55 PM

Almost not wanting to get into this messy of a topic this early on my return to the forums, but eh, I'll weigh in.

Personally, I can go either way. Yes, the original comics had them as all red bandanas. And Andrew makes a great point earlier in the thread (I believe it was one of yours anyway) about how it doesn't make any sense for a ninja clan to have multi-colored bandanas. It's the same kind of illogical-ness as Naruto from his self-titled series being decked out in orange everything - it's not exactly the stealthiest design around.

That said though, I grew up on the multi-colored stuff so I can work with it very easily as well. And if pressed, I'd have to admit, I DO prefer it, simply for ease. Go ahead and make any assumptions on my 'intelligence' that anyone wants, but I have a hard time telling the Turtles apart in some of the old stuff with all-red masks. The black and white doesn't make any skin-shading-differences to help, they don't always have their weapons (and it's mostly in those peace-loving scenes that I have the problem anyway), and even with shading differences it's a lot to ask for some that are less 'hardcore' about the fandom to be able to tell them apart just by that.

So yeah, I personally can go either way and would actually prefer colored masks, and based on what I'm reading there's a plausible enough reason for the switch (unless that was hypothesizing?), so I can totally get behind it.

CyberCubed

12-22-2011, 09:56 PM

Andrew NDB

12-22-2011, 09:58 PM

The funniest part of it all is the red bandanas in Mirage never made a difference because 90% of its run was in black and white.

Aside from Volume 2 and a few specials, we very rarely saw the Turtles in all red in Mirage outside of the covers.

And a lot of us have been looking forward to a day when we'd finally get the red bandannas rendered in a high end, top notch-colored modern comic.

Gyt Kaliba

12-22-2011, 10:00 PM

Well, there was a colorized version of the old Mirage stuff at one point wasn't there? Pretty sure I've seen pictures of it anyway, but maybe it was a fan thing.

And a lot of us have been looking forward to a day when we'd finally get the red bandannas rendered in a high end, top notch-colored modern comic.

I can respect that sentiment too though actually.

Samhain

12-22-2011, 10:05 PM

And a lot of us have been looking forward to a day when we'd finally get the red bandannas rendered in a high end, top notch-colored modern comic.

And.. we got 5 issues. It was a good run.:ohwell:

Toby Barrett

12-23-2011, 04:14 AM

Let's continue to cry about it.

Candy Kappa

12-23-2011, 05:11 AM

The funniest part of it all is the red bandanas in Mirage never made a difference because 90% of its run was in black and white.

Aside from Volume 2 and a few specials, we very rarely saw the Turtles in all red in Mirage outside of the covers.

By that statement it should be completely okay to color the turtles skin pink, the carapace and plastron blue and headbands turquoise in the Mirage colored books.

ToTheNines

12-23-2011, 06:19 AM

Let's continue to cry about it.

Ok, as long as you continue crying about us crying about it. :)

mysterycolor

12-23-2011, 06:30 AM

i certainly didnt jump out of my seat when i read of the change... but i did like the way it was done- and enjoyed issue 5 very much...

Toby Barrett

12-23-2011, 01:28 PM

Ok, as long as you continue crying about us crying about it. :)

Alright, it's a deal.

Samhain

12-23-2011, 09:30 PM

Let's continue to cry about it.

It may not matter to you, but to some of us it's important. There is nothing ''badass'' about rainbow headbands. Sorry. But a unified color for a ninja clan is, IMO.

CyberCubed

12-23-2011, 09:35 PM

Perhaps the IDW Turtles have no interest in being badass.

Grimlock

12-23-2011, 09:56 PM

Perhaps the IDW Turtles have no interest in being badass.

Well, they sure do look it when they are wearing all red. Now they just look like a toy throwback trying to pull in the casuals.

CyberCubed

12-23-2011, 10:13 PM

Well, they sure do look it when they are wearing all red. Now they just look like a toy throwback trying to pull in the casuals.

I don't think they made the connection with the colored bandanas for kids/toys...its not like any kids will be buying these comics (who aren't exposed to the Nick show next year first), and there will be no toys based on the IDW comics.

They did it because they felt it would work, not for any other ulterior motive as we know.

oldschoolturtlesfan

12-23-2011, 11:17 PM

I don't think they made the connection with the colored bandanas for kids/toys...its not like any kids will be buying these comics (who aren't exposed to the Nick show next year first), and there will be no toys based on the IDW comics.

They did it because they felt it would work, not for any other ulterior motive as we know.

I believe they made the change because they thought it would work. I just wish they would have listened to the fans on this one. Sure, most people know the turtles as having rainbow bandannas. This does not mean anything. Millions of people know who the turtles are, but very few of those millions read the comics. Some fans just feel betrayed about the entire "rainbow bandannas" episode. We were given something that we lobbied for years to achieve only to have it taken away after 5 issues. We busted our ass spreading the word about how great this comic is, blogging positive reviews on the internet, and getting others to by the comic. I am personally responsible for getting at least 8 people involved in this new series. Sure 8 is not a lot, but there are plenty of fans like me that spread the word and got others on board, and trust me it adds up fast. Then to change something that so many of the fans feel so strongly about just seems like a slap in the face. Yes, I will continue to support this series and the hardcover collections so the old TMNT stuff can get recollected like it deserves. I will continue to by the comic, but I would be lying if I said that it is not a big deal to me. I would have understood if they started with the rainbow bandannas to begin with or if Nick mandated the change. Neither of these things happened. Why change something on your best selling comic that so many fans feel so strongly about? You already have the sale numbers and the fanboys on your side. The sales will likely not increase because of the change and you deflate the sails and energy of the fanboys that have worked so hard to spread the word to get this comic were it is today. Sorry for rambling I just can't comprehend why this happened for no apparent reason.

Andrew NDB

12-23-2011, 11:42 PM

Believe it or not I'm kind of running out of gas on this whole discussion... but here we go.

They did it because they felt it would work, not for any other ulterior motive

I do believe that, 100%, without question. However it seems pretty clear it's borne from personal preference and the "popular" vote, not out of raw logic or creative objectivity on what would best personify either the TMNT from their genesis or them as a believable ninja clan... or really out any kind of sitting down, boiling down session of sifting out and establishing what would make the most badass incarnation of the TMNT as part of a true "Ultimate" universe -- a point in discussion that ought to be paramount, given the kind of negative (or at least somewhat "kiddie") stigma TMNT has to regular comic book readers who would never consider picking up or otherwise taking a chance on a TMNT comic. Colored bandannas simply wouldn't be a thing that would survive such a (read: nostalgia-less) discussion.

I've slept on it. I approached it with a clear head, and I've been doing a lot of re-reading of #5, replaying that last scene as objectively as possible. See, I would really like to be able to walk away from it and go, "OK, it makes complete organic sense why they are coming out of this with the colored bandannas"... but it's simply not possible. The story was clearly tailored to incorporate them into things quite deliberately (I hesitate to use the word "shoehorn") -- that a ninja family's four children in Feudal Japan have different color fetishes they wear everyday as a story point just isn't something you would arrive at was there not already an agenda to cobble together some way, some reason for Splinter to give them the colored bandannas at the end (to be fair, though, I really strain to think up any way to make the color thing work in any sort of "cool" way).

Maybe that's a little bit verbose. To be more succinct, let me put it this way: the story didn't find a way to incorporate the bandannas, the bandannas (or rather, the "bandanna agenda" let's call it at the risk of suggesting something devious, which I am not) found a way to have the story incorporate them. It really ought to have been the other way around if was truly to be considered a worthwhile endeavor, if that makes sense.

No bones about it, it bothers me. It bothers me (as I've already posted here) that it's being treated as an "evolution" of the TMNT. It bothers me that the TMNT themselves in-story welcome the multi-colored bandannas with open arms and glee (OK, this part is petty of me, I admit that). It bothers me that, with the dubious Nick cartoon and a Michael Bay-produced TMNT film in production (not to knock either one), the IDW TMNT miiight just represent the last chance for a relatively wide-release incarnation of TMNT that can be enjoyed by adults (yes, yes, and kids alike -- one needn't come at the cost of another)... and they would go and almost forcibly remove the hallmark that has always visually separated (to me and I know, even casual "outsiders") the "grown-up TMNT" from the "children's TMNT" pasteurized to go on lunch boxes and underwear and Turtle trolls... and I wish I could say that was hyperbole. It bothers me that the whole thing smacks of a bait-and-switch on the Mirage fans, whether intentionally or not. It bothers me more than anything that the whole thing is looked upon as less of a big deal than it is.

Are colored bandannas the end of the world? No, of course not. Should it cause anyone, myself included, to suddenly drop the book? Absolutely not, IDW TMNT is as compelling TMNT reading as there has been in years and they've got a hell of a team behind it. Are the colored bandannas disappointing? Yes. Yes, they are. I think "disheartening" is probably the better word.

Bobby says he always loved the red bandannas, was partial to them himself, was a little leery of the whole "in #5 they go multi-color" (until, fairly enough, he read Tom's script and had a turnabout), and that the issues so far we have hopefully serve as a good way of honoring the red bandannas (they do). Sounds more than reasonable enough to me. I guess my only question would be, was it ever a consideration to spin the wheel around 180 degrees and do the opposite... and if not, why not? If it's a matter of just honoring a thing like the color of their bandannas (whether we're talking about the multi-colored ones or the original all-reds) and moving on, why aren't the multi-colored bandannas the thing that gets the 5 issue "nod" before the Turtles adopt a singular color as part of this Ultimate-esque universe?

No, seriously, think about it. The Turtles don't remember their previous lives yet, Splinter hasn't coaxed all of that out of them yet (maybe he never will? time will tell). Raphael is missing, so they're not quite the full "clan" yet nor do they even have a singular ninja-esque mission statement yet beyond 1) Training, and 2) Finding Raphael. Seems to me that this, if ever, would have been the perfect period of time for them to be wearing the multi-colored bandannas. Then when the Turtles find Raphael and take him back to Splinter, as we see, it's suddenly "Game On" for the Turtles and their clan -- you know, with them as a whole clan now, Splinter tells them who they are and what they must do and why he has (and will continue to) trained them so hard... and then off come the colored bandannas and on come the unified red ones (and it couldn't even be brought up, "But they stole Raph's color!" because since going missing he didn't have any bandanna -- the red would be entirely new and would unite them going forward).

That's just me shooting from the hip, but a scenario in that vein that seems pretty natural to me and would have pretty well accomplished all goals and maybe even more -- you know, the colored bandannas would be honored and by launching the book with the colored bandannas that would be an excellent way to coax in former or casual fans only familiar with the colored bandanna spinoff stuff right from the get-go (not that I believe for one moment that doing so would provide anything substantial in the way of sales boosting)... before taking the kid gloves off and getting serious both in-story and figuratively.

Donnie

12-24-2011, 01:03 AM

Well, they sure do look it when they are wearing all red. Now they just look like a toy throwback trying to pull in the casuals.

This is a pretty lame statement. I really don't think IDW did it for any reason besides adding depth to the individuality/past life of each Turtle. I know that's a hairy subject (as you can surely have character development without colored bandanas) but in my opinion the different colors have always added an extra dimension to each Turtle.

I don't think they made the connection with the colored bandanas for kids/toys...its not like any kids will be buying these comics (who aren't exposed to the Nick show next year first), and there will be no toys based on the IDW comics.

They did it because they felt it would work, not for any other ulterior motive as we know.

Wow, for once we agree.

Andrew brings up great points and his arguments are valid. I like the colored bandanas, but I most definitely agree with him that this topic is running out of gas, it's getting repetitive and circular. At least, that's how I feel about it at this point.

Toby Barrett

12-24-2011, 04:12 AM

It may not matter to you, but to some of us it's important. There is nothing ''badass'' about rainbow headbands. Sorry. But a unified color for a ninja clan is, IMO.

So what you're saying is, this mature comic needs mature headbands for mature readers such as yourself.

Hermano Dyvas

12-24-2011, 04:39 AM

So what you're saying is, this mature comic needs mature headbands for mature readers such as yourself.

Come on Toby, read the reactions, it should be pretty clear what they are saying by now.

All-Red: Unified Ninja Clan. it even has tactical value because it could confuse enemies.

Which reminds me, the Archie turtles also started out all red and they even used their unified colors to confuse their enemies. Yet, right after that they changed to multi-colored bandana's because Splinter couldn't tell them apart...

I guess we should be glad we didn't get that reason!

junkboy

12-24-2011, 05:17 AM

I really do not understand why Tom Waltz is not answering officially to those questions. He comes to the forum generally after each issue. Maybe he is just looking only one topic but he seems to like getting feedback from the fans.
Maybe he was not looking at the Infestation thread. So it was a good idea to open a thread specifically about the colored bandanas. Hope we can get and official answer about it, here.
And as for my thoughts about the situation. Colored bandana thing is a complete nightmare and i have stated by clear thoughts about it at the Infestation thread in more than once i guess.
To whatever "logical" reason they shall link that color change to ( if they will ) , i guess it is very clear that it will happen cause of Nick's enforcement.
"We own the rights, we do not want any confusion when we release the silly new animation and the new crappy Playmates Turtles toys show up at stores So you will make that radical change."

The thing is. For me the color bandana thing is not important. They could make them all pink. ( giving the weirdest choice ) and while i would not be happy, i would not be disappointed like this old toon colors.
At least , we could be saying that IDW was going on its own way.
This is just copying , what they do.

The Image universe was like an own universe of its own. That's why i sometimes even like the Image series more than the original one. I am an Image comics fan so that affects it as well, but other than that, while some ppl did not like it, i still find Image series great.

While i liked the IDW series so far, my feelings towards IDW series is nowhere near to my thoughts about Image series.

And all this talk is meaningless if this is indeed Nick's enforcement. We must be sad not about today's events but the events of years ago, then. When Turtles were made into kid stuff to milk the greatest money from them... and make the casual, non-comic reader ppl remember them that way.
Ofc if it was not done that way, there would not be new Turtles books all those years so far.
So that is a weird dilemma.

ToTheNines

12-24-2011, 06:26 AM

Bobby says he always loved the red bandannas, was partial to them himself, was a little leery of the whole "in #5 they go multi-color" (until, fairly enough, he read Tom's script and had a turnabout), and that the issues so far we have hopefully serve as a good way of honoring the red bandannas (they do). Sounds more than reasonable enough to me. I guess my only question would be, was it ever a consideration to spin the wheel around 180 degrees and do the opposite... and if not, why not? If it's a matter of just honoring a thing like the color of their bandannas (whether we're talking about the multi-colored ones or the original all-reds) and moving on, why aren't the multi-colored bandannas the thing that gets the 5 issue "nod" before the Turtles adopt a singular color as part of this Ultimate-esque universe?

No, seriously, think about it. The Turtles don't remember their previous lives yet, Splinter hasn't coaxed all of that out of them yet (maybe he never will? time will tell). Raphael is missing, so they're not quite the full "clan" yet nor do they even have a singular ninja-esque mission statement yet beyond 1) Training, and 2) Finding Raphael. Seems to me that this, if ever, would have been the perfect period of time for them to be wearing the multi-colored bandannas. Then when the Turtles find Raphael and take him back to Splinter, as we see, it's suddenly "Game On" for the Turtles and their clan -- you know, with them as a whole clan now, Splinter tells them who they are and what they must do and why he has (and will continue to) trained them so hard... and then off come the colored bandannas and on come the unified red ones (and it couldn't even be brought up, "But they stole Raph's color!" because since going missing he didn't have any bandanna -- the red would be entirely new and would unite them going forward).

That's just me shooting from the hip, but a scenario in that vein that seems pretty natural to me and would have pretty well accomplished all goals and maybe even more -- you know, the colored bandannas would be honored and by launching the book with the colored bandannas that would be an excellent way to coax in former or casual fans only familiar with the colored bandanna spinoff stuff right from the get-go (not that I believe for one moment that doing so would provide anything substantial in the way of sales boosting)... before taking the kid gloves off and getting serious both in-story and figuratively.

That's genius, they should have done that. Now I'm pissed off all over again.

Grimlock

12-24-2011, 07:49 AM

This is a pretty lame statement. I really don't think IDW did it for any reason besides adding depth to the individuality/past life of each Turtle. I know that's a hairy subject (as you can surely have character development without colored bandanas) but in my opinion the different colors have always added an extra dimension to each Turtle.

Wow, for once we agree.

Andrew brings up great points and his arguments are valid. I like the colored bandanas, but I most definitely agree with him that this topic is running out of gas, it's getting repetitive and circular. At least, that's how I feel about it at this point.

The fact of the matter is the different colored headbands were created for kids so it's easy to tell them apart and to market toys. That's it. And Cyber, I think that jut flew over your head. You seem a little confused.

But in the end, wht's done is done. IDW went the route everyone else goes and while I will continue to read and enjoy what they put out, this series is tainted a tad bit for me and alot of other people.

CyberCubed

12-24-2011, 08:28 AM

Grimlock

12-24-2011, 08:35 AM

That was the ORIGINAL reason the colored bandanas were created. However after 25 years, they simply became ingrained into the TMNT mythos and have been accepted in all forms of media.

Peter Laird could have very well not had the 4kids Turtles have color bandanas, or even the 2007 movie, but he kept them anyway.

I believe Laird said he didn't mind the colored headbands, just that he hated the initials on their belts from the old toon as well as their arm/leg bands being colored.

Maybe so. But that doesn't change the fact that most peope don't know about the original all red Tmnt. But alas, this is pretty much a dead subject as it desn't matter anymore.

2K3 and TMNT having colored coded bandanas is fine, because they were marketed towards children. Dark as that show may have been. But this is a comic book that didn't need that. It didn't bring anything to the story. It just reminded me of Power Rangers. Which I love, but I didn't want it in this book. A bit goofy.

azrael

12-24-2011, 08:54 AM

Most people also dont know about comics... As long as Tom and Duncan keep with what they been doing when Kevin takes a break, I will be happy.

Grimlock

12-24-2011, 09:02 AM

Most people also dont know about comics...

Yeah? That's a bad thing.

Donnie

12-24-2011, 09:19 AM

It didn't bring anything to the story. It just reminded me of Power Rangers. Which I love, but I didn't want it in this book. A bit goofy.

Power Rangers? Really? If that origin story didn't strike a nerve in you and prove that IDW isn't about the kiddy BS, I don't know what will. The colors make sense within this story IDW is telling. I don't think we've heard the end-all explanation for them yet, either.

Grimlock

12-24-2011, 09:30 AM

Power Rangers? Really? If that origin story didn't strike a nerve in you and prove that IDW isn't about the kiddy BS, I don't know what will. The colors make sense within this story IDW is telling. I don't think we've heard the end-all explanation for them yet, either.

I LOVED the origin story. And I never said they were doing kiddy stuff. But 4 young kids, in fuedal Japan, so close to a legitimate ninja clan, each wearing their favorite color doesn't make any sense to me. Reminds me of whenever the Power Rangers were in public. They always have their specific ranger color. Wether it be a shirt or hat. Sorry, that's goofy. Just my opinion.

The origin story was cool but had they not even bothered with the color coding ad all that, it wouldn't have made it any less great. I think that's the issue. It really had no place in there. It was just sorta stuck in there. ''Here you go, remember these guys from that cartoon?, they're back!''

junkboy

12-24-2011, 11:06 AM

There cannot be any logical reason other than milking the old show and Nick / Viacom's forcings to change back into that colored bandana silliness. ( even hire Alan Moore and make him write a TMNT story about the reason of the color change to make it look logical, still it will be about milking the old show )
I wish IDW was brave enough to start with colored bandanas then.
Or go on with the red ones.
It seems they wrere incapable of doing any of them.
Believe me i would not be that unhappy if the series had started with the old toon colors in the first place.
It is obvious that this change is happening cause of a direct order from above and there is nothing can be done. ( i do not want to think otherwise, if current IDW TMNT writers are really doing this thing, thinking this is cool, i really do not even have anything to say about this. )
I am not entering IDW forums. Isn't there any official talk about this over there?
Btw since i import all my comics, i still did not read Issue 5 and Raphael issues so far. ( the packages are a bit late to be honest, but always happens before new year stuff )
Is that a panel which is your sig, from issue 5, Donnie? Splinter giving the purple "thing" to Don?

Man, that indeed looks so bad in many levels, if it is in the book. sigh...

Matches Malone

12-24-2011, 12:03 PM

Believe it or not I'm kind of running out of gas on this whole discussion... but here we go.

I do believe that, 100%, without question. However it seems pretty clear it's borne from personal preference and the "popular" vote, not out of raw logic or creative objectivity on what would best personify either the TMNT from their genesis or them as a believable ninja clan... or really out any kind of sitting down, boiling down session of sifting out and establishing what would make the most badass incarnation of the TMNT as part of a true "Ultimate" universe -- a point in discussion that ought to be paramount, given the kind of negative (or at least somewhat "kiddie") stigma TMNT has to regular comic book readers who would never consider picking up or otherwise taking a chance on a TMNT comic. Colored bandannas simply wouldn't be a thing that would survive such a (read: nostalgia-less) discussion.

I've slept on it. I approached it with a clear head, and I've been doing a lot of re-reading of #5, replaying that last scene as objectively as possible. See, I would really like to be able to walk away from it and go, "OK, it makes complete organic sense why they are coming out of this with the colored bandannas"... but it's simply not possible. The story was clearly tailored to incorporate them into things quite deliberately (I hesitate to use the word "shoehorn") -- that a ninja family's four children in Feudal Japan have different color fetishes they wear everyday as a story point just isn't something you would arrive at was there not already an agenda to cobble together some way, some reason for Splinter to give them the colored bandannas at the end (to be fair, though, I really strain to think up any way to make the color thing work in any sort of "cool" way).

Maybe that's a little bit verbose. To be more succinct, let me put it this way: the story didn't find a way to incorporate the bandannas, the bandannas (or rather, the "bandanna agenda" let's call it at the risk of suggesting something devious, which I am not) found a way to have the story incorporate them. It really ought to have been the other way around if was truly to be considered a worthwhile endeavor, if that makes sense.

No bones about it, it bothers me. It bothers me (as I've already posted here) that it's being treated as an "evolution" of the TMNT. It bothers me that the TMNT themselves in-story welcome the multi-colored bandannas with open arms and glee (OK, this part is petty of me, I admit that). It bothers me that, with the dubious Nick cartoon and a Michael Bay-produced TMNT film in production (not to knock either one), the IDW TMNT miiight just represent the last chance for a relatively wide-release incarnation of TMNT that can be enjoyed by adults (yes, yes, and kids alike -- one needn't come at the cost of another)... and they would go and almost forcibly remove the hallmark that has always visually separated (to me and I know, even casual "outsiders") the "grown-up TMNT" from the "children's TMNT" pasteurized to go on lunch boxes and underwear and Turtle trolls... and I wish I could say that was hyperbole. It bothers me that the whole thing smacks of a bait-and-switch on the Mirage fans, whether intentionally or not. It bothers me more than anything that the whole thing is looked upon as less of a big deal than it is.

Are colored bandannas the end of the world? No, of course not. Should it cause anyone, myself included, to suddenly drop the book? Absolutely not, IDW TMNT is as compelling TMNT reading as there has been in years and they've got a hell of a team behind it. Are the colored bandannas disappointing? Yes. Yes, they are. I think "disheartening" is probably the better word.

Bobby says he always loved the red bandannas, was partial to them himself, was a little leery of the whole "in #5 they go multi-color" (until, fairly enough, he read Tom's script and had a turnabout), and that the issues so far we have hopefully serve as a good way of honoring the red bandannas (they do). Sounds more than reasonable enough to me. I guess my only question would be, was it ever a consideration to spin the wheel around 180 degrees and do the opposite... and if not, why not? If it's a matter of just honoring a thing like the color of their bandannas (whether we're talking about the multi-colored ones or the original all-reds) and moving on, why aren't the multi-colored bandannas the thing that gets the 5 issue "nod" before the Turtles adopt a singular color as part of this Ultimate-esque universe?

No, seriously, think about it. The Turtles don't remember their previous lives yet, Splinter hasn't coaxed all of that out of them yet (maybe he never will? time will tell). Raphael is missing, so they're not quite the full "clan" yet nor do they even have a singular ninja-esque mission statement yet beyond 1) Training, and 2) Finding Raphael. Seems to me that this, if ever, would have been the perfect period of time for them to be wearing the multi-colored bandannas. Then when the Turtles find Raphael and take him back to Splinter, as we see, it's suddenly "Game On" for the Turtles and their clan -- you know, with them as a whole clan now, Splinter tells them who they are and what they must do and why he has (and will continue to) trained them so hard... and then off come the colored bandannas and on come the unified red ones (and it couldn't even be brought up, "But they stole Raph's color!" because since going missing he didn't have any bandanna -- the red would be entirely new and would unite them going forward).

That's just me shooting from the hip, but a scenario in that vein that seems pretty natural to me and would have pretty well accomplished all goals and maybe even more -- you know, the colored bandannas would be honored and by launching the book with the colored bandannas that would be an excellent way to coax in former or casual fans only familiar with the colored bandanna spinoff stuff right from the get-go (not that I believe for one moment that doing so would provide anything substantial in the way of sales boosting)... before taking the kid gloves off and getting serious both in-story and figuratively.

I actually had the exact same idea after reading #5 which is why I feel like the color choice was a bit arbitrary. The story could have worked just as easily the exact same way if you flipped it (going from stressing individuality to stressing unity). It's unfortunate, but I think the reason it didn't go down this route was because I believe it happened after the book got going, though probably not long after. In Bobby's reply, he mentions the Raphael micro and how he asked the colorist to try to obscure the colors on the headbands of the other turtles to not spoil the surprise, so presumably Tom came up with the story idea for the colors after the red headbands had already been established and the issues were already out in the comic shops. Had he come up with this story idea prior to the launch of #1, would he have gone with the route you suggest? Perhaps, but alas we will never know.

There cannot be any logical reason other than milking the old show and Nick / Viacom's forcings to change back into that colored bandana silliness. ( even hire Alan Moore and make him write a TMNT story about the reason of the color change to make it look logical, still it will be about milking the old show )
It is obvious that this change is happening cause of a direct order from above and there is nothing can be done. ( i do not want to think otherwise, if current IDW TMNT writers are really doing this thing, thinking this is cool, i really do not even have anything to say about this. )
I am not entering IDW forums. Isn't there any official talk about this over there?

Look on page 7 of this thread. Bobby, the editor of the series, has already refuted this allegation. Nothing is being imposed on them by Nick, including the colored headbands, so it's not obvious this is a direct order from above...

junkboy

12-24-2011, 12:07 PM

Look on page 7 of this thread. Bobby, the editor of the series, has already refuted this allegation. Nothing is being imposed on them by Nick, including the colored headbands, so it's not obvious this is a direct order from above...

yeah, like he would say that to the public... i mean the reality
anyway.. if IDW is doing this for getting more readers cause that sales are going down, i do not think it is a good way. All they shall be getting will be casual readers. and casual readers are likely to leave after a few issues.
( and they do not debate over the color of a damn bandana pages after pages to be honest )

Matches Malone

12-24-2011, 12:14 PM

yeah, like he would say that to the public... i mean the reality

Well, you asked if there has been any official word from the IDW forums, so I merely intended to point it out to you. As for the reality, well, what happens behind closed doors, no one but those involved truly know what goes on there. However obvious things may seem, it's probably best to at least acknowledge that in the same breath because you never know... I for one have taken this IDW team as very open, forthcoming, and sincere guys who work for comics for the love of them, but that's just my humble impression. By the end of the day, you'll probably be happier not getting worked up insisting on things you ultimately can't confirm.

junkboy

12-24-2011, 12:16 PM

Well, you asked if there has been any official word from the IDW forums, so I merely intended to point it out to you.

I was not trying to be impolite, if it seemed that way.
Thanks for the info.

Matches Malone

12-24-2011, 12:30 PM

I was not trying to be impolite, if it seemed that way.
Thanks for the info.

No worries. I can be cynical as the next, but I think from the forums responses and what we've seen in TMNT so far, I prefer to let myself be convinced that there is no conspiracy. In the same issue we get the colored headbands, we also get one of the grittiest tragic stories seen so far in TMNT history, so I think it makes more sense that Nick would not want their kids brand associated with such. Thus, the more logical conclusion is that Bobby, Tom, and the rest are actually sincere guys who love doing what they do and merely disagree with some of us on this. Can't fault anyone for that. It's nothing dramatic or unseemly, just unfortunate, and we'll all be happier if we learn to live with what we do have: a gritty, ongoing TMNT book with good writing and art. As I wrote before, this team's not afraid to take risks, so if anything, we'll see less pandering to kids. Even if we don't like everything they do, at least we'll be seeing a comic done with integrity for the love of TMNT, which I'm sure is where the best stories come from.

Grimlock

12-24-2011, 01:02 PM

No worries. I can be cynical as the next, but I think from the forums responses and what we've seen in TMNT so far, I prefer to let myself be convinced that there is no conspiracy. In the same issue we get the colored headbands, we also get one of the grittiest tragic stories seen so far in TMNT history, so I think it makes more sense that Nick would not want their kids brand associated with such. Thus, the more logical conclusion is that Bobby, Tom, and the rest are actually sincere guys who love doing what they do and merely disagree with some of us on this. Can't fault anyone for that. It's nothing dramatic or unseemly, just unfortunate, and we'll all be happier if we learn to live with what we do have: a gritty, ongoing TMNT book with good writing and art. As I wrote before, this team's not afraid to take risks, so if anything, we'll see less pandering to kids. Even if we don't like everything they do, at least we'll be seeing a comic done with integrity for the love of TMNT, which I'm sure is where the best stories come from.

With the exception of those silly headbands, for me, this series has been everything and more that I wanted from a monthly Tmnt book. I simply love everything about it. So, I'm still thankfull for that. We can't have everything we want I guess.

LeoNerdo

12-24-2011, 01:11 PM

Donnie

12-24-2011, 04:01 PM

Is that a panel which is your sig, from issue 5, Donnie? Splinter giving the purple "thing" to Don?

Yes, it's a panel from #5. :D

Toby Barrett

12-24-2011, 04:03 PM

I like the shade of purple they gave Donnie for the comic, it's close to the live action film. The color it was in the 4Kids toon always looked off.

Donnie

12-24-2011, 04:05 PM

I like the shade of purple they gave Donnie for the comic, it's close to the live action film. The color it was in the 4Kids toon always looked off.

I agree. The darker the purple the better. I'm pleased with IDW's shade of purple.

Hermano Dyvas

12-24-2011, 04:08 PM

I won't get my copy of #5 in the mail 'til Tuesday-ish next week. This is really a non-issue to me though. I think it's kind of cool in fact. All four of the turtles are still my favorite color -- GREEN. :tgrin:

Hey I did like Raph's all black outfit, and weren't these the outfits Eastman and Laird originally wanted to put on the turtles? Not exactly unified colors either...

Andrew NDB

12-24-2011, 04:37 PM

Hey I did like Raph's all black outfit, and weren't these the outfits Eastman and Laird originally wanted to put on the turtles? Not exactly unified colors either...

Those were the outfits, but those colors were not arrived at until well into the cartoon-Archie days.

Toby Barrett

12-24-2011, 04:41 PM

No way, they're exact copies of Laird's painting. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/2473817995/)

Andrew NDB

12-24-2011, 04:44 PM

No way, they're exact copies of Laird's painting. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/2473817995/)

Yes, but I was talking about the colors in the piece shown. That original painting doesn't have the same color scheme -- there is no blue or orange whatsoever, for example. If anything, it suggests that yes, early on there were discussions and designs or whatever to diversify the Turtles before they ultimately agreed, "Nope, they ought to be unified."

Like those original napkin sketches, though, it's all academic now.

Matches Malone

12-24-2011, 05:15 PM

Wow I had no idea these were one of the original designs! Glad we didn't do down this route... I would not be as psyched for Teenage Mutant Lucha Libre Turtles!

Donnie

12-24-2011, 11:04 PM

Wow I had no idea these were one of the original designs! Glad we didn't do down this route... I would not be as psyched for Teenage Mutant Lucha Libre Turtles!

What's cool is that it seems like Eastman & Laird (or Laird at least) always held a soft spot for those initial designs. Donatello is given the "sunrise" bandana in "Old Times", the first glimpse we get of future Donnie playing around with Chet. At least at that stage in his writing, Laird planned for at least Donnie to eventually adapt a different style bandana. I like it.

FlawedCoil82

12-25-2011, 06:46 PM

So I have been out of touch for a while. I just picked up #4 at my local shop and haven't read it yet (I have to get #5 next time). Anyway. I don't have time to go through and read this entire thread right now, but going from Donnie's signature image above, should I assume that it means the turtles will finally be getting their unique bandana colors? Because that is the only thing I have not enjoyed about this comic so far, is the "all-red" bandanas. I would much rather see the turtles in their own unique colors and really hope that is the direction that this comic will go in. If so, then my excitement for this comic will most certainly go up.

Donnie

12-26-2011, 12:30 AM

If so, then my excitement for this comic will most certainly go up.

It's all over the thread, man. Hardly a page back. Sigh. But yes, the Turtles are now wearing the colored bandanas.

ToTheNines

12-26-2011, 02:21 PM

I just had a little thought that made me accept the skittle headbands a bit more, and explain the whole favorite color thing.

Don refers to Splinter's determination to find Raphael as a "guilty obsession" in #3, and he's probably right. Since Splinter does recall his past life, I'm sure he still has a longing for Tang Shen. Now I'm reading into things on my own here a little bit, but the fact that his four boys were wearing robes of a particular color the night his wife died, on top of the probability that she was the one who actually made the kimonos, should carry a lot of weight in Hamato Yoshi's mind.

To me, making them wear the same colors they were wearing the night their mother was killed seems to be just the same type of thinking as making them wear the same color as their lost brother's "favorite" while searching for him.

Toby Barrett

12-26-2011, 02:43 PM

I hadn't thought of that, and I really like that explaination! :tgrin:

Cowabunga Carl

12-26-2011, 04:32 PM

junkboy

12-26-2011, 04:49 PM

I really wanted to be against the change to color bandanas. I've always felt the comics should be all red, so when they hinted about the change it bothered me. After finally getting the issue I have to say I actually can understand and appreciate why they did the change. It will take a little getting used to but at least there was a better reason then just because they wanted to.

Issue 5 did not arrive me yet since i am out of US. Guess it will at the end of this week or start of next week.
But i hope i will be able to see the situation as you do.
Since that colored bandana thing was first shown on Infestation teasers, i did not feel any slightest sympathy to it.

Powder

12-26-2011, 05:36 PM

I like your reasoning, Tothenines, but I'd only embrace it if the color change were mandatory on the behalf of Viacom.
Since it wasn't, it's all bullsh*t to me anyway.

Donnie

12-26-2011, 05:37 PM

Don refers to Splinter's determination to find Raphael as a "guilty obsession" in #3, and he's probably right. Since Splinter does recall his past life, I'm sure he still has a longing for Tang Shen. Now I'm reading into things on my own here a little bit, but the fact that his four boys were wearing robes of a particular color the night his wife died, on top of the probability that she was the one who actually made the kimonos, should carry a lot of weight in Hamato Yoshi's mind.

I like this explanation!

Andrew NDB

12-26-2011, 06:03 PM

I'm not clear how that is any better (or different) than the in-story reason we were already given.

FlawedCoil82

12-26-2011, 06:11 PM

I like your reasoning, Tothenines, but I'd only embrace it if the color change were mandatory on the behalf of Viacom.
Since it wasn't, it's all bullsh*t to me anyway.

Yea, I wish I could understand the comic fans of today. I guess I just love color in my comics. Marvel Comics lost me as a customer/reader after they took the X-Men out of their brightly colored 90's uniforms that I loved to see them in, and rendered them utterly dull and boring to look at now. I don't want "realism" when I read comics. I want a bright, exciting, colorful escape from reality. So now that the turtles will be getting back to the look I always loved and remembered them by, they will fill in that huge void left behind by my once-cherished X-Men.

Powder

12-26-2011, 06:23 PM

Go watch My Little Pony.

Andrew NDB

12-26-2011, 06:25 PM

http://www.simplephrase.com/motivation/graphics/nostalgia.jpg

Toby Barrett

12-26-2011, 06:27 PM

Yeah, because no one's allowed to have differing opinions here. How dare you like something those guys don't like.

For ****ing shame.

Andrew NDB

12-26-2011, 06:35 PM

Yeah, because no one's allowed to have differing opinions here. How dare you like something those guys don't like.

For ****ing shame.

Personally, I was just having a bit of fun... because there's no real logical counter to someone coming into a discussion and going, "I don't understand you guys! I like the colored bandannas because I like colors and I remember them most in the cartoons with colors. And I like lots of colors in... stuff."

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but let's not pretend this viewpoint or ones like it are coming from a place anywhere near objectivity.

CyberCubed

12-26-2011, 07:02 PM

Heh I am a bit indifferent to the bandana issue as I can see both sides of the coin. I don't really care, but I think the red bandanas should have had at least a 15-20 issue run before the change.

After only 5 issues, most of which Raph had no headband and were barely shown it is a bit of abrupt.

ToTheNines

12-26-2011, 07:19 PM

I'm not clear how that is any better (or different) than the in-story reason we were already given.

It isn't any different. I was just giving Splinter's reasoning a closer look.

FlawedCoil82

12-26-2011, 07:23 PM

Personally, I was just having a bit of fun... because there's no real logical counter to someone coming into a discussion and going, "I don't understand you guys! I like the colored bandannas because I like colors and I remember them most in the cartoons with colors. And I like lots of colors in... stuff."

How is it really any different than everyone who claims that they should be red, just because that is how they were in the beginning? I didn't mind them as much originally because they were black and white, so in my head I could imagine that they were the colors I liked. But in color form, I want them to be exciting looking since it's harder to imagine them in their respective colors. I don't see anything appealing about them whatsoever all being the same color (even if red is someones favorite color). It seems far more appealing to me having four completely different looks, weapons, personalities, etc. It was definitely a contributing factor when I was a kid. Like had Leonardo not had a blue mask when I first saw the TMNT, I guarantee that they wouldn't have caught my attention near as much as they did. There wouldn't have been enough variety.

ToTheNines

12-26-2011, 07:27 PM

How is it really any different than everyone who claims that they should be red, just because that is how they were in the beginning? I didn't mind them as much originally because they were black and white, so in my head I could imagine that they were the colors I liked. But in color form, I want them to be exciting looking since it's harder to imagine them in their respective colors. I don't see anything appealing about them whatsoever all being the same color (even if red is someones favorite color). It seems far more appealing to me having four completely different looks, weapons, personalities, etc. It was definitely a contributing factor when I was a kid. Like had Leonardo not had a blue mask when I first saw the TMNT, I guarantee that they wouldn't have caught my attention near as much as they did. There wouldn't have been enough variety.

I feel the same way about these guys.

http://powerrangers.com/images/series/mighty_morphin.png

Grimlock

12-26-2011, 07:48 PM

I feel the same way about these guys.

http://powerrangers.com/images/series/mighty_morphin.png

Tommy as the Green Ranger was the man back in the day.:)

Andrew NDB

12-26-2011, 07:49 PM

How is it really any different than everyone who claims that they should be red, just because that is how they were in the beginning?

It couldn't be more different. Source material > Spinoff material. Does that mean spinoff material is inherently garbage? No, of course not... it just means it's spinoff material. If I have to sit here and explain to you how the creators of a thing envisioned and created a thing is of greater intrinsic value than alternately just what some children's spinoffs came up with later down the line -- however beloved they may have been and continue to be in small circles -- then you are lost.

But I shouldn't even have to go there for you, because "everyone" is not claiming they should be red, "just because that is how they were in the beginning." Myself and others have provided reasonable, logical stances on why the red bandannas make a great deal more sense than the multi-colored... what is yours, beyond simply, "I like lots of colors and I like the cartoon TMNTs"?

FlawedCoil82

12-26-2011, 08:29 PM

Don't forget "variety". That's an important one.

I don't always agree that the source material is ALWAYS superior. Things can be improved upon. Can you imagine if we were still driving around horse and buggies? I mean, they were "source material" for an alternate mode of transportation, so that automatically means that they are a superior mode? The X-Men were invented by Stan Lee, but they weren't anything I cared about until Jim Lee came in and perfected what Stan Lee created. For me, the same thing happened with TMNT. Adding the variety of colored bandanas was improving upon the original idea.

ToTheNines

12-26-2011, 08:31 PM

Andrew NDB

12-26-2011, 09:18 PM

Don't forget "variety". That's an important one.
I don't always agree that the source material is ALWAYS superior.

You're right. Variety of colors are a very important reason... that the multi-colored bandannas are not an improvement on the basis of the Turtles as a ninja clan.

CyberCubed

12-26-2011, 09:59 PM

ToTheNines

12-26-2011, 10:07 PM

Its kinda odd they switched so fast. I think it would have been better for at least 1 full year (12 issues) of the red bandanas, and then around the time the Nick show debuted they switched to their colors.

Because at this point it seems pointless, and makes you wonder why they didn't just have the colors from the beginning if they were going to go this route.

Going by the way Tom wrote this first arc, that wouldn't have worked unless Raph was missing for all of those issues, and that would have gotten old. Fast.

And if they did it to coincide with the Nick show, that would have really pissed me off. The way it was executed just seems to be Tom's preference, which I'd rather have as an influence to this book than the opinion of a corporation that just acquired the property not long ago. He gave the Mirage era its shout-out, but saw fit to give them multicolored headbands. I'm over it (but still holding out hope for a return to all-red someday).

Candy Kappa

12-27-2011, 06:05 AM

The X-Men were invented by Stan Lee, but they weren't anything I cared about until Jim Lee came in and perfected what Stan Lee created.

Debatable, highly debatable

Metropoliskid41

12-27-2011, 08:42 AM

Jim Lee didn't perfect anything in the X-MEN, his art was fantastic yes, but that's like comparing apples to oranges, Stan Lee didn't draw the X-MEN, he wrote them, and Jim Lee didn't write them, that honor goes to Chris Claremont, who put together an amazing 16 year run that really put the Marvel Mutants on the map in the 70's, 80's, and 90's that led to an X-MEN cartoon series and all of its popularity during those decades, especially the late 80's and early 90's. Jim Lee is one of my favorite artist but sorry your statement isn't accurate or even valid in the comparison.

Hermano Dyvas

12-27-2011, 10:38 AM

Its kinda odd they switched so fast. I think it would have been better for at least 1 full year (12 issues) of the red bandanas, and then around the time the Nick show debuted they switched to their colors.

If I do have anything to say about multi-colored bandana's it's that if they're gonna switch to them, they'd better do it quick. I think if they had been wearing the red bandana's for a year and then would've made the switch to colored bandana's people would get a lot more pissed/dissappointed then they are now.

Cowabunga Carl

12-27-2011, 11:10 AM

To me the the color bandanas always signified a kid friendly version of the TMNT. The red bandanas signified a more violent mature TMNT. It let you know what you were going to experience at a glance.

With Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady making a comeback I'm not sure what the book hold for us. That's why I was/am against colored bandanas. But it wont ruin the book for me having colored bandanas, just make me a little sad.

junkboy

12-27-2011, 11:54 AM

I am happy that i did NOT love X-Men or Jim Lee's "bright and colorful?" X-men that much.
Clearly ( based on your saying ) that would prevent me from getting a better understanding how a good comic should be.
anyways, the point is not is being colorful, bright , eye catching or such simple things.
the thing is , this comic gets away from the original TMNT by each issue. ( and even not slowly )
Bebop and Rocksteady... That was the only nice thing for me in the old goofy toon. ( again stupid for me, it might be a masterpiece for any other and i respect that )
but since i readied myself the IDW universe to be as close to the Mirage roots as possible, i am having a difficulty in accepting Bebop and Rocksteady as well here.

Grimlock

12-27-2011, 12:49 PM

FlawedCoil82

12-27-2011, 02:43 PM

Yea we will just have to agree to disagree. The Almighty himself could not convince me that what the X-Men look like today are even comparable to what they used to look like in the 1990's. All I can say is that I know for certain what I like to see and I will stay extremely loyal to whatever that is until someone else decides to change and ruin it. When it comes to comics, the art is actually more important to me than the story (that's why I prefer comics over novels). But if what I am reading about doesn't look appealing to me, then the greatest writers in the world can not save it. Apparently I am the only person alive who must feel this way, but it is what it is.

Metropoliskid41

12-27-2011, 02:47 PM

No one ever said that the X-MEN look today like they did in the 90's. Every character has undergone multiple costume changes since then, that was never up for debate.

FlawedCoil82

12-27-2011, 02:49 PM

And that is the biggest problem. They are now unrecognizable to me and no longer the appealing looking characters I once couldn't get enough of.

Andrew NDB

12-27-2011, 03:00 PM

And that is the biggest problem. They are now unrecognizable to me and no longer the appealing looking characters I once couldn't get enough of.

One man's meat is another man's garbage. Sunshine and rainbows isn't for everyone.

Metropoliskid41

12-27-2011, 03:03 PM

If you aren't checking out Uncanny X-Force because you are unable to get passed the fact that they visually look different than they did 20 years ago then you are really screwing yourself out some damn good story telling.

Plasticplayhouse

12-27-2011, 03:06 PM

finally was able to pick up issue #5 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand i'm disapointed.

i agree with those about the red signifying unity, having a "clan-like" feel, and representing a darker, grittier turtle. Regarding the comics, my heart is and will be red bandanas all the way :(

That said, at least they were introduced in a pretty reasonable/tasteful manner. Though, I would have MUCH preferred andrew's suggestion on it and start off with the color, eventually unifying with the red.

Bebop and rocksteady?! I always did like them and wouldn’t mind them making an appearance in the comic, but if this turns out to be a modern day mutanimals I might just vomit in my mouth, swallow it, and vomit again.

FlawedCoil82

12-27-2011, 03:08 PM

Not sunshine and rainbows. But there is not one single reason why Rogue should not still be in her green/yellow unform and why it couldn't work with today's writers. There is not one reason why Beast shouldn't still look the way he used to instead of the cat he has become. That is the kind of stuff that enrages me about the X-Men today.

True, I do not like the TMNT with the red bandanas near as much as I do with the colored ones, but they are still close enough to how I like them to look, that I can still look at them without feeling bitter. Now, if IDW tried to change them beyond what I like (making them wear uniforms, changing their weapons, etc.) then that is when I will have a major problem with the turtles.

CyberCubed

12-27-2011, 03:10 PM

Bebop and rocksteady?! I always did like them and wouldn’t mind them making an appearance in the comic, but if this turns out to be a modern day mutanimals I might just vomit in my mouth, swallow it, and vomit again.

Where did you get this idea from? There won't be many mutants running around.

Hermano Dyvas

12-27-2011, 04:14 PM

Not sunshine and rainbows. But there is not one single reason why Rogue should not still be in her green/yellow unform and why it couldn't work with today's writers.

Just like there isn't a single reason for the tmnt to drop the red headbands :)

But I feel like we can keep going in circles about this forever.

The colors are there now and they were at least tastefully introduced... more tasteful then in Archie...

minor archie spoiler below:
Seriously, in the Archie universe right before they switch they use their unified color as a battle tactic to confuse their enemies! Why would they drop that advantage the day after? It's actually upsetting when you really start to think about it! But this is the IDW headband's discussion not Archie's.

Plasticplayhouse

12-28-2011, 07:48 AM

Where did you get this idea from? There won't be many mutants running around.

My imagination just started to run wild with the possibility of them adding more mutants. It's more of a preemptive, "I hope they don’t go mutant crazy" feeling I had at the time.

Grimlock

12-28-2011, 11:45 AM

Ya know, I have come to terms with the bandana switch. It is what it is. Nothing anyone can do about it. It won't change the fact that I'm in love with this book and it's the best turtle related thing in years.

BUT, can we still get red bandana Turtles on the covers? I mean, that would be a great homage to the original turtles and it would make me happy atleast the Mirage tmnt are getting some recognition. Thoughts?

Hermano Dyvas

12-28-2011, 11:47 AM

I'm in love with this book and it's the best turtle related thing in years.

Quoted for truth.

Metropoliskid41

12-28-2011, 11:49 AM

I think Red Bandanas on the Retro covers and/or B covers would be a cool thing.

Andrew NDB

12-28-2011, 12:10 PM

can we still get red bandana Turtles on the covers? I mean, that would be a great homage to the original turtles and it would make me happy atleast the Mirage tmnt are getting some recognition. Thoughts?

That would seem borderline insulting... to the reader, and to the interior artwork it'd be misrepresenting.

If they're going Full Rainbow -- and they have -- they better be putting that rubbish front and center without flinching.