Black April

[neatoman]

From the Instagram of Ciro Nieli (Nick series creator):

"my earliest #nicktmnt animation development notebook when April was still a black girl and Mikey's cat was named Fellini. Sept2009! I'll share more pages from this book eventually. I would love to draw a one shot comic story someday with all my pure unused TMNT ideas"

https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/13534044_1718101385123469_863892185_n.jpg

... What's wrong with the name Klunk?

[CyberCubed]

I don't think the world is ready for a black April. Especially one with a fro.

[TurtleTitan97]

From the Instagram of Ciro Nieli (Nick series creator):

"my earliest #nicktmnt animation development notebook when April was still a black girl and Mikey's cat was named Fellini. Sept2009! I'll share more pages from this book eventually. I would love to draw a one shot comic story someday with all my pure unused TMNT ideas"

https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/13534044_1718101385123469_863892185_n.jpg

That's awesome!


I don't think the world is ready for a black April. Especially one with a fro.

Shut up, you fool.

You haven't even presented one solid argument for why this shouldn't happen and just been repeating yourself like a broken record as usual. :roll:

[plastroncafe]

I love the implication that Mike was someone familiar with the works of Fellini . Not exactly something I'd expect from the Mike we got on the show.

...

Then again, that name does sound like feline, so maybe the familiarity with artsy film directors is less auteur affection and more dad joke.

[Huzzah]

Since the butt shot has become a staple of April's character in most iterations, I think that's all the more reason it's time for a black April...

[ticktack]

Ethnic or race minorities can have its own problems without that. So it's not worthy to showcase their female representation already. :ohwell: An opinion.

[DisKosh]

April's not defined by her race. She could be black, white, or asian and still be April. She's been a reporter, archaeologist, scientist, and antiques seller throughout all her incarnations; despite the changes, she's remained April. Changing her ethnicity wouldn't do anything beyond being a breath of fresh air, in my opinion. They were definitely going to make her blonde in 2k12:

http://media.tumblr.com/177b56c7ab2733c389ab3181d133544c/tumblr_inline_n82c85rilx1r46ii7.jpg

Not to mention have her shipped with Raph.

Anyway, I've already made my multiracial April:

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2014/144/3/1/april_o_neil_by_darthempress-d7jk52y.png

That's adorable. Do you have any fanfics about her and Raph? ::tsmile:

[Powder]

Well considering this thread got bumped it may be a good place to say it.

Unfortunately, April's inspiration, a woman of color by the same name that Eastman was in a relationship with around the time of TMNT's creation, passed away two days ago. I caught wind of it from Mark Bode's Facebook. Everyone said she was wonderfully sweet & beautiful. RIP

[CyberCubed]

Unfortunately, April's inspiration, a woman of color by the same name that Eastman was in a relationship with around the time of TMNT's creation, passed away two days ago. I caught wind of it from Mark Bode's Facebook. Everyone said she was wonderfully sweet & beautiful. RIP

Really? Shame, she was probably only in her 50's, right?

[oldmanwinters]

Well considering this thread got bumped it may be a good place to say it.

Unfortunately, April's inspiration, a woman of color by the same name that Eastman was in a relationship with around the time of TMNT's creation, passed away two days ago. I caught wind of it from Mark Bode's Facebook. Everyone said she was wonderfully sweet & beautiful. RIP

Hate to hear that! :tcry: But thanks for the heads up, Powder.

[John Pannozzi]

Well considering this thread got bumped it may be a good place to say it.

Unfortunately, April's inspiration, a woman of color by the same name that Eastman was in a relationship with around the time of TMNT's creation, passed away two days ago. I caught wind of it from Mark Bode's Facebook. Everyone said she was wonderfully sweet & beautiful. RIP

I just went to Bode's Facebook page and didn't find any mention of this. Citation needed.

[plastroncafe]

I did the same thing, but assumed this info was under a Friends' Lock, and since I'm not friends with the guy, I couldn't see it.

[Powder]

Weird, seems he took the post down. A bunch of supposed turtle fans were asking for an explanation on who she was, that probably made him remove it so as not to make spectacle of it. But it was the piece of art below (which I had saved because I figured it was tied to the character's origin on some level, I think it's supposed to be the actual April herself), accompanied by a bit of text saying rest in piece to April something from somewhere (so sorry I can't remember these details) who was the original inspiration for April O'neil, & so on. They were talking about her giving away/selling off her art collection over the last year or so in the comments.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2im802x.jpg

[oldmanwinters]

Ha! Well, that pic certainly goes a long way in explaining the 80s hairstyle in the comics! Clearly, Eastman & Laird had very different interpretations of what the character should be over the years.

[DisKosh]

I really like her hair in the comics and after reading them I think of her as being mixed race. It's sad to hear about the woman who inspired her though.

(Although the other interpretations are nice too).

[Powder]

Bumping this thread since it has featured talk of the actual human being that inspired her creation, & how she may or may not have been black herself. Finally got a photo of her, the "REAL" April O'neil. Here she is (wearing grey).

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11224899_10153072228264065_1062059800313484527_o.j pg?oh=00c14958fc7ad5f9f28b4d824f4fd59d&oe=5A13E3F1


The pic is courtesy Mark Bode, from the London premier of the original TMNT film. From Left- Molly Bode, Mark Bode, April (last name not given), Kevin Eastman, mother of the film's writer Paul Jenkins, Paul Jenkins, Eric Talbot.

Seems she may have been mixed? Not sure, but a pretty woman all the same.

[ToTheNines]

That is SO cool. Thanks for sharing.

[ToTheNines]

Also, reading through this really made me miss my Man Commenter. *pours one out*

[CyberCubed]

It's hard to tell since the photo is so old or blurry, but her skin doesn't look much darker than anyone else in that pic.

[Andrew NDB]

It's hard to tell since the photo is so old or blurry, but her skin doesn't look much darker than anyone else in that pic.

Not quite "black enough" for you?

I agree, this is very interesting. It could be one of those things where it was based on her and... huge heartbreak, Laird was sensitive to it, and Laird doesn't want to talk about it out of respect for Eastman. We definitely know that Eastman has a penchant for drawing his current significant other into whatever he happens to be doing at the moment... even now.

[DestronMirage22]

It's awesome that Mark Bode was also to shed some more light on this subject.
Maybe someday we'll get the full scoop.

[oldmanwinters]

Anybody else remember that the credits of Mirage Vol. 1, #32 give thanks to "April and Molly?"

[CyberCubed]

Looks like some of you got your wish.

[neatoman]

Looks like some of you got your wish.

Excuse me, what?

[CyberCubed]

People who wanted black April got their wish.

[sdp]

I was thinking of this thread when I saw Black April was being voiced by a black woman and thought they would make her black in the new show only to read a few moments later in another article that she was black.

Let's see how it goes, I think if she's interesting and look like early mirage april I'd love her. If they made her black just for diversity it'll be a shame, especially since its just another instance of red headed characters becoming black, pure Irish get no representation in media now.

[neatoman]

People who wanted black April got their wish.

I didn't initally come across that thread, now I get it. I would prefer seeing the actual design though, I'm honestly not sure if they mean that the character is black or just that the actor is.

[TigerClaw]

The other thing to take into account is April's last name, O'neil is an Irish surname, they could make her a half black half irish american.

[neatoman]

The other thing to take into account is April's last name, O'neil is an Irish surname, they could make her a half black half irish american.

Should I really have to explain why it's not necessary to justify African-Americans with English/Irish names? Because I really don't want to open up that can of worms on the internet.

[plastroncafe]

Pure Irish aren't all redheads, as the trait is recessive, and requires an individual to be homozygous for it to express phenotypically.

Nor is everyone with the last name O'Neil necessarily Irish, or of Irish ancestry.
Especially in America.

[CyberCubed]

I'm betting black April will be mixed anyway. She may even look ambiguous in the show.

[ProphetofGanja]

Should I really have to explain why it's not necessary to justify African-Americans with English/Irish names? Because I really don't want to open up that can of worms on the internet.

You'll have to forgive some people here who struggle with social skills/cues/issues. But other people here who should know better are being really weird about the possibility of a black April; I feel like they're about to start throwing around terms like "mulatto" and "quadroon" and giving paper bag tests.

[plastroncafe]

You'll have to forgive some people here who struggle with social skills/cues/issues. But other people here who should know better are being really weird about the possibility of a black April; I feel like they're about to start throwing around terms like "mulatto" and "quadroon" and giving paper bag tests.

Day ain't over yet, give them time.

[TigerClaw]

They don't have to make April a red head, they can give her any color hair.

How about if April had blonde hair?

[sdp]

People speculating if she could be mixed is not because they can't handle a black April as you're trying to imply. :roll:

People don't like changing the race of established characters for "diversity" sake, which many people don't even understand that we don't want a white character turned another, but prefer having original main characters added.

Baxter Stockman being black created little controversy since he was originally black in the comics, April being black is not as controversial either since there some roots to it in early mirage as seen in this thread, changing Leonardo's and Raphael's roles is the main controversy since it seems to be done for the sake of changing the status quo in a cheap way, that doesn't man they are "role"-ists

They don't have to make April a red head, they can give her any color hair.

How about if April had blonde hair?

April was blondish in the original movies, which also works since OT April had that ambiguously brown hair that retroactively could be seen as dirty blonde or even a reddish.

I would not like a straight up blonde April.

[Sighphi]

Bumping this thread since it has featured talk of the actual human being that inspired her creation, & how she may or may not have been black herself. Finally got a photo of her, the "REAL" April O'neil. Here she is (wearing grey).

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11224899_10153072228264065_1062059800313484527_o.j pg?oh=00c14958fc7ad5f9f28b4d824f4fd59d&oe=5A13E3F1


The pic is courtesy Mark Bode, from the London premier of the original TMNT film. From Left- Molly Bode, Mark Bode, April (last name not given), Kevin Eastman, mother of the film's writer Paul Jenkins, Paul Jenkins, Eric Talbot.

Seems she may have been mixed? Not sure, but a pretty woman all the same.

dude, that's a latina!

We need Abril O'Nubes

Should I really have to explain why it's not necessary to justify African-Americans with English/Irish names? Because I really don't want to open up that can of worms on the internet.

there were no Irish slave owners. The Irish came waaaay later.

[CyberCubed]

It’s going to feel odd for April to be marketed as black in a kids show for the first time.

[plastroncafe]

there were no Irish slave owners. The Irish came waaaay later.

I don't believe either of these statements are true.

[neatoman]

It’s going to feel odd for April to be marketed as black in a kids show for the first time.

Why? It's not like it's the first time something like this has happened.

[CyberCubed]

Why? It's not like it's the first time something like this has happened.

Well for TMNT. I also imagine all the kids who grew up with the Nick cartoon will be a bit confused.

The kids who were 10 back in 2012 are now teenagers, I wonder how they'll react to the new show.

[sdp]

It'll be awkward for the latina girls who were hoping April's real roots as latina would come out but instead they made her black.

[neatoman]

Well for TMNT.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/9245/273243-61495-baxter-stockman.jpg

[CyberCubed]

But nobody knew that back in 1987 but some hardcore comic fans.

I was 3 years old when the show came out, I had no idea Baxter was supposed to be black.

[sdp]

Look for threads here in the drome from 2002, many people asked why Baxter was black in 2k3.

It's not the same thing explaining "Baxter was always black in the comics so now he's going to be what he was always meant to be"

than to explain "April might or might not have been latina so instead of an irish character we decided to make her black"

:lol:

[CyberCubed]

Looks like I will have to educate a whole new wave of TMNT fans on the internet when the new show comes out, like I always do.

[neatoman]

But nobody knew that back in 1987 but some hardcore comic fans.

I was 3 years old when the show came out, I had no idea Baxter was supposed to be black.

You know now.

[CyberCubed]

Yes, but...it's not like anyone can do anything about it. You're talking about eps written back in 1987-1988, nearly 30 years ago.

[sdp]

Can you imagine if the internet was around back then?

The anachronistic technodrome forums in 1986 would have a 30+ page thread with the title "They're making Baxter Stockman WHITE in the upcoming animated adaptation!".

[Jester]

Pure Irish aren't all redheads, as the trait is recessive, and requires an individual to be homozygous for it to express phenotypically.
And it's not necessarily solid. I have stray red hairs in my beard.

Nor is everyone with the last name O'Neil necessarily Irish, or of Irish ancestry.
Especially in America.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTUzMjA0MzQxMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODA3ODY3Mg@@._ V1_UY317_CR4,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

[neatoman]

And it's not necessarily solid. I have stray red hairs in my beard.


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTUzMjA0MzQxMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODA3ODY3Mg@@._ V1_UY317_CR4,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

And now I'm off to write a fan fic about April becoming an armored superhero/wish granting genie who plays basketball.

[Prowler]

Pure Irish aren't all redheads, as the trait is recessive, and requires an individual to be homozygous for it to express phenotypically.

Nor is everyone with the last name O'Neil necessarily Irish, or of Irish ancestry.
Especially in America.
This lol.

I've been to Ireland. Most Irish people have black or brown hair... which makes sense since, you know, dominant genes. Also light hair tends to darken with age. Notice how many people were blonde as kids/teenagers and then their hair became brown?

Maybe Shaquille O'Neil has a distant Irish ancestor, but ofc, someone with a last name with origins in a certain country doesn't necessarily mean they're from said country.

You'll have to forgive some people here who struggle with social skills/cues/issues. But other people here who should know better are being really weird about the possibility of a black April; I feel like they're about to start throwing around terms like "mulatto" and "quadroon" and giving paper bag tests.
What's wrong with the term mulatto? In my country that's what we call a half white/half black person(mulato in Portuguese). Is the term offensive in the English language or something?

[pferreira]

But nobody knew that back in 1987 but some hardcore comic fans.

I was 3 years old when the show came out, I had no idea Baxter was supposed to be black.Exactly, it wasn't common knowledge. I don't think I was even aware Baxter was originally black until the 2003 cartoon series.

[plastroncafe]

What's wrong with the term mulatto? In my country that's what we call a half white/half black person(mulato in Portuguese). Is the term offensive in the English language or something?

In American English, or at least the parts of American English I'm to, it's an outdated term that borders on offensive.

To my knowledge, bi-racial is the replacement.

[CyberCubed]

Funny that this thread is from 2014. Who would have thought only 4 years later in the year 2018 there would actually be a black April in canon?

I guess this is one of those times where truth is stranger than fiction.

[Sighphi]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTUzMjA0MzQxMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODA3ODY3Mg@@._ V1_UY317_CR4,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

that O'neal, not O'neil.

[sdp]

After these news I researched more about Black April and from what I can gather it's only a myth, she was definitely meant to be more latina if anything but it sure seems like she was meant to always be white.

Funny that this thread is from 2014. Who would have thought only 4 years later in the year 2018 there would actually be a black April in canon?

I guess this is one of those times where truth is stranger than fiction.

Yeah your post in the first page was that people weren't ready but what people weren't ready for was Raph/Leo changing roles. :lol:


What's wrong with the term mulatto? In my country that's what we call a half white/half black person(mulato in Portuguese). Is the term offensive in the English language or something?

There's nothing wrong, it's used in my country as well. Americans in general inadvertently impose their culture onto others thinking the whole world applies by the same rules they may come up with. I see this a lot on debates where people from around the world get to participate. I guess it's part of their culture to do such things :P

[Leolead]

It’s going to feel odd for April to be marketed as black in a kids show for the first time.
Young Kids are going to grow up with this show, knowing April the way she'll be portrayed in this show. Don't think it'll be that big of a deal.

[CyberCubed]

Young Kids are going to grow up with this show, knowing April the way she'll be portrayed in this show. Don't think it'll be that big of a deal.

It's coming out way too soon after the end of the current Nick cartoon though. It's not like there's a huge gap between shows like when the original cartoon ended to the 2k3 one, or the 2k3 ending to the Nick one.

This new show is literally starting next year.

[ProphetofGanja]

There's nothing wrong, it's used in my country as well. Americans in general inadvertently impose their culture onto others thinking the whole world applies by the same rules they may come up with. I see this a lot on debates where people from around the world get to participate. I guess it's part of their culture to do such things :P

It's different here because there's a lot more history behind it and you're being naive if you say otherwise. It's what we call a "charged word", with a lot of baggage attached to it. There's nothing inherently offensive about the word itself but it's picked up a negative connotation because of how it was used, and now as far as it's usage in English goes it's a dated word as well. Yes we all know "negro" is the Spanish word for black but if you go around here in America calling people "negro" or "mulatto" I know people who will stomp you into the dirt, and as we're speaking about a cultural phenomenon that originates here in America, that's why I say that. But feel free to visit America and throw words like that around if you want.

[Jester]

that O'neal, not O'neil.
Yeah, I realized that after I posted it...but still.

[Sumac]

Can you imagine if the internet was around back then?

The anachronistic technodrome forums in 1986 would have a 30+ page thread with the title "They're making Baxter Stockman WHITE in the upcoming animated adaptation!".
I am SO glad that we didn't have Internet back in the 80-s. :tlol:

[Prowler]

Well this is an interesting twist of events. April first was made a teenager in the Nick series, now in the upcoming cartoon she'll be black? What are they gonna do with her in future series then? make her Asian? Make her lesbian? :lol:

After these news I researched more about Black April and from what I can gather it's only a myth, she was definitely meant to be more latina if anything but it sure seems like she was meant to always be white.



Yeah your post in the first page was that people weren't ready but what people weren't ready for was Raph/Leo changing roles. :lol:



There's nothing wrong, it's used in my country as well. Americans in general inadvertently impose their culture onto others thinking the whole world applies by the same rules they may come up with. I see this a lot on debates where people from around the world get to participate. I guess it's part of their culture to do such things :P
Well I guess words can have different meanings in different countries and languages.

It's different here because there's a lot more history behind it and you're being naive if you say otherwise. It's what we call a "charged word", with a lot of baggage attached to it. There's nothing inherently offensive about the word itself but it's picked up a negative connotation because of how it was used, and now as far as it's usage in English goes it's a dated word as well. Yes we all know "negro" is the Spanish word for black but if you go around here in America calling people "negro" or "mulatto" I know people who will stomp you into the dirt, and as we're speaking about a cultural phenomenon that originates here in America, that's why I say that. But feel free to visit America and throw words like that around if you want.
sdp is from Mexico. I'm sure his country also has some sort of racial past. Most countries in the Americas do.

I wonder how mulatto became an offensive word in USA.

What about calling a mixed White and Amerindian person "mestiço/mestizo"? Is that also a no no in USA?

[plastroncafe]

Again, it's my understanding that folks with a multi ethnic background prefer the terms biracial or multiracial or multiethnic.

Mileage varies, And the people who make those decisions really ought to be the people most directly affected by them.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder how mulatto became an offensive word in USA.

Is it? I've never heard that referred to as an offensive word, ever.

[neatoman]

I'm just gonna post these.

https://pre00.deviantart.net/8303/th/pre/i/2014/231/3/3/black_april_o_neil_by_actionkiddy-d7vwd2w.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/31/98/a431985631e14170f75fb9d1a3da39c4.jpg

[Prowler]

Again, it's my understanding that folks with a multi ethnic background prefer the terms biracial or multiracial or multiethnic.

Mileage varies, And the people who make those decisions really ought to be the people most directly affected by them.

Ah well I never heard anyone use those terms in real life. Maybe it's something more common in the English language.

Reminds me of the gender and sex issue. Here they're both used interchangeably pretty much. As in, you fill out a form and they ask for your sex/gender. Sometimes one word is used and sometimes it's the other that's used. And a Polish guy once told me that's kind of like the same thing in Polish. Language barrier can lead to such misunderstandings I guess.

Anyway, European nations don't ask for a person's race in forms. At least most don't. Some don't even ask for a person's religion in the census, like France for example.

Tbh, now that I think about it, from the top of my head, the only nations who ask for a person's "race" on their census are USA and Brazil. But there's probably more.

Is it? I've never heard that referred to as an offensive word, ever.

Well, prophetofganja and plastroncafe told us they're not very advisable terms to use, so...

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if she'll have curly black hair or be more of a mix.

[Papenbrook]

I'm just gonna post these.

https://pre00.deviantart.net/8303/th/pre/i/2014/231/3/3/black_april_o_neil_by_actionkiddy-d7vwd2w.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/31/98/a431985631e14170f75fb9d1a3da39c4.jpg

I miss BabyTurtles. :(

[Prowler]

I wonder if she'll have curly black hair or be more of a mix.
If you don't like her hairdo is this gonna be your new "turtle nostrils" type of gripe? :lol:

[CyberCubed]

I just wonder what her design will be like. Ambiguous, mixed, or just black?

[neatoman]

I just wonder what her design will be like. Ambiguous, mixed, or just black?

Let's not go there.

[CyberCubed]

It's just something to be curious about. Like will they go "all the way" or make it more ambiguous, since this is the first time a character who has been around for over 30 years like April is getting a drastic race change.

I mean I'm trying to be as subtle here as I possibly can. I'm sure everyone understands what I mean.

[IndigoErth]

Very cute art. I'll be curious to find out more about her. If she is once again an adult then if she's a reporter again, a sciency sort like 2003, etc, or something new.

[ProphetofGanja]

It's just something to be curious about. Like will they go "all the way" or make it more ambiguous, since this is the first time a character who has been around for over 30 years like April is getting a drastic race change.

I mean I'm trying to be as subtle here as I possibly can. I'm sure everyone understands what I mean.

CyberCubed being subtle:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/zNAyqEoTPSZe8/giphy.gif

:lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

CyberCubed being subtle:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/zNAyqEoTPSZe8/giphy.gif

:lol:

You win the 'Drome for the day. :tlol:

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

This is something that should have been done in one of the TMNT versions a long time ago, given the history of April's design in the mirage TMNT comics. Looking forward to the new April design. :)

[Sighphi]

I just wonder what her design will be like. Ambiguous, mixed, or just black?

i hope it's not a chick with an afro.

https://i.imgur.com/8auzFPS.jpg

[CyberCubed]

I'm kinda hoping her design is based on her real life voice actress, she has long curly hair.

[neatoman]

i hope it's not a chick with an afro.

https://i.imgur.com/8auzFPS.jpg

But afro is hot.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm kinda hoping her design is based on her real life voice actress, she has long curly hair.
Right..... cause 2012 April looks like Mae Whitman...

[CyberCubed]

Depends how early they cast the actress before they finalized April's design.

But I agree, the fro has got to go! This isn't the 1970's anymore. We're not in Saturday Night Fever.

[ProphetofGanja]

But afro is hot.

Agreed.

https://media.giphy.com/media/NRDLHC3lWcndu/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/T1VdqscDbswve/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/6T52tsmycUmqs/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/AWDgJfyMhWXQY/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/13S4WNChiiuVEY/giphy.gif

[Spike Spiegel]

https://media.giphy.com/media/NRDLHC3lWcndu/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/T1VdqscDbswve/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/6T52tsmycUmqs/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/AWDgJfyMhWXQY/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/13S4WNChiiuVEY/giphy.gif

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e530fe942ecbcb06f29b5e245f19ac39/tenor.gif

[turtle1237]

Super Hot like the 1987 April I hope.

[Sighphi]

But afro is hot.

isnt she going to be a teenager in this cartoon again?

[PApagreg]

isnt she going to be a teenager in this cartoon again?

2k12 was a teenager but it didn't stop the series from giving her butt shots also I bet you good money the show is going to focus on April's legs

[mrmaczaps]

This is something that should have been done in one of the TMNT versions a long time ago, given the history of April's design in the mirage TMNT comics. Looking forward to the new April design. :)

But April wasn't originally black..... if you have ever seen pics of early 80s women, even the white women had hair like that one single cover of April colored with a darker skin tone....

Or listen to any interview with Kevin or Peter when someone asks that question and they say no....this is change for the sake of change.

[plastroncafe]

April's ethnicity was never directly addressed by the text, thus leaving her open to interpretation. So tradition is the only reason she's always been portrayed as white.
(Tradition and the white default)

Reboots are change for the sake of change.
Splinter being Hamato Yoshi was a change for the sake of change.
Utroms becoming Krang was a change for the sake of change.
Omitting Oroku Nagi from the narrative was a change for the sake of change.

Etc.

This is no different.

[Sumac]

Reboots are change for the sake of change.
Splinter being Hamato Yoshi was a change for the sake of change.
Utroms becoming Krang was a change for the sake of change.
Omitting Oroku Nagi from the narrative was a change for the sake of change.

Etc.

This is no different.
No.
Hamato Yoshi being Splinter and omission of Oroku Nagi were done with the clear purpose - to remove gore from the cartoon incarnation.

Whether it was good change or not, is a matter of preference, but calling it "change for the sake of change" is not only missing the point of change, but also an attempt to twist narrative in the favor of your personal agenda.

Reboots are, also, not exactly "change for the sake of change", because it would be rather hard to sell an idea of telling the same story over and over again in the same fashion.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

But April wasn't originally black..... if you have ever seen pics of early 80s women, even the white women had hair like that one single cover of April colored with a darker skin tone....

Or listen to any interview with Kevin or Peter when someone asks that question and they say no....this is change for the sake of change.

I know she wasn't originally black, what I was referring to was the history of the character (Where colorists sometimes mistakenly drew her with darker skin) And the person April is based on (who was a person of color).

[mrmaczaps]

I know she wasn't originally black, what I was referring to was the history of the character (Where colorists sometimes mistakenly drew her with darker skin) And the person April is based on (who was a person of color).

She was onky colored dark on that one cover, isn't it? I don't recall any others, unless they're Archie issues? And honsstly, I never took that one cover from volume 1 as her being black. The whole cover is shadowed... I always took it as meant to show a night time scene... April was based on a former girlfriend of Kevin's who was half black tho?

[sdp]

No, his girlfriend was latina, the character was meant to be white, I did my research and there's some confusion but she was not intended to be another race, at least that we can find any evidence of.

Changes that don't give us something interesting are stupid, Hamato Yoshi being Splinter is interesting, April having psychic powers is dumb. Race changing a character is personally insulting and almost never works out and it's almost always done just to pander or to lazily add diversity to the group.

I'd rather have Carter or an original character as a main character than make another person another race. Raph being leader is not an "interesting" change, it's dumb. Of course we'll have to wait and see how it all actually looks and plays out in the show and it may very well prove us wrong but they're all red flags, same as the TMNT having magical powers and "Mystic" NY.

If you want an interesting new take on the TMNT why not make a show of the Mecha Future TMNT from the shorts? That's something new, not changing things for changes sake, at least one pilot was female and I'm guessing at least one was not white, I can't recall. There diversity without pandering and also trying something new without violating the pillars of what make the shows a show.

Why were people so upset about the TMNT being aliens for the TMNT movie or Eric Sachs as Shredder? They're also changes, doing something NEW for thef ranchise. Shredder is voiced by a black man in the OT and some would argue looked "black", should he be black?

[CyberCubed]

I nearly had a mental breakdown over Eric Sachs being Shredder. Even worse than Turtle nostrils.

[Prowler]

Mrmaczaps made a good point(first time I've agreed with him ever) about April's hairstyle being similar to those of many women back in he 80s, when that style was in vogue. I never really felt April was originally meant to be black or mixed or whatever. I haven't read much Mirage yet to see if April's relatives ever appear in it, but she had an aunt appear in the FW series(based on Agatha Christie, I guess) and her father appeared in flashbacks in the 2k3 series. Both were white. So yeah, I've always assumed April to be a White Irish American woman. So this racial change a la Baxter Stockman from Mirage to FW is a bit random, but whatever. I'm nota fan of racial changes like that, but I can let this one slide better than changing Shredder's race. I mean, after all being Irish was never a big part of April's character and personality, unlike Oroku Saki's Japanese ancestry.

sdp, I remember "person of colour" being more commonly used in the 90s. That term seems to have regained popularity in this current decade. And I agree with your points about alien turtles also being changes. I honestly don't know how making April black will make her a better character overall tbh. April's character might have its flaws that make her less interesting other than being "TMNT's human connection to the world", but that hardly has anything to do with her ethnic background. So lemme guess, in the new cartoon April will be a black girl who lives in a majorly white neighbourhood or goes to a predominantly white school and thus feels out of place and then befriends the Turtles, finding the "we don't fit in" thing in common with them? I can see it now. Because if it's just changign her race "because" it just smells like tokenism and agenda.

Also sdp, never heard ANYONE argue that Shredder looked black in the FW series. But maybe some people are dumb and don't realise that there's tanned Japanese people. Not all Japanese people are pale skinned. Some actually have natural tans.

[plastroncafe]

It could be, and maybe it should be, argued that anything that targets one specific demographic is in fact pandering to that demographic.

The fact remains that nowhere in the text itself does it give a April's race. Leaving her race open to interpretation. Just because a few folks assume no mention of race or ethnicity means white, doesn't mean the rest of us have to do that.

To that end, making April anything other than white isn't in change for the sake of change, it's a valid interpretation. And just as valid as anyone else's.

[sdp]

April being black is the last of my concerns in this new show, I want to like it but all the things we're learning about it about the magic NYC and Raph as leader don't seem like good ideas. I hope I love it though.

I deleted the people of color part of my post since It's not that important and it's not an argument I want to have.

As far as Shredder being black, I never though that either but I know I've seen some topics in the drome in all my time here about it. Maybe I can find them int he search.

It could be, and maybe it should be, argued that anything that targets one specific demographic is in fact pandering to that demographic.

I feel it's pandering not to people of that race but people who want to be "inclusive" and miss the point and in many ways end up being unintentionally racist, I've come across this a lot. I've already given examples of how I'd like to be represented and it's not changing the color of someone. But we'll just agree to disagree there since there's no changing our opinions.

[Prowler]

It could be, and maybe it should be, argued that anything that targets one specific demographic is in fact pandering to that demographic.

The fact remains that nowhere in the text itself does it give a April's race. Leaving her race open to interpretation. Just because a few folks assume no mention of race or ethnicity means white, doesn't mean the rest of us have to do that.

To that end, making April anything other than white is in change for the sake of change, it's a valid interpretation. And just as valid as anyone else's.

This whole "April might have been black" thing seems to be rather recent though, no? Not to mention she has been very white looking in incarnation since Mirage, so it just seems a bit odd for her to suddenly be black.

Ofc not mentioning her race means no one is certain for sure... except laird and Eastman, if they EVER had race in mind when coming up with her design that is. But tbh, she's statistically more likely to be White, considering her Irish last name. When people write novels they don't usually mention a character's racial history or anything. Just like if I watch anime I'm gonna assume people with Japanese names are fully Japanese until stated otherwise.

April being black is the last of my concerns in this new show, I want to like it but all the things we're learning about it about the magic NYC and Raph as leader don't seem like good ideas. I hope I love it though.

I deleted the people of color part of my post since It's not that important and it's not an argument I want to have.

As far as Shredder being black, I never though that either but I know I've seen some topics in the drome in all my time here about it. Maybe I can find them int he search.
Well I'll be damned. Never ever have I seen someone argue this. I only remember Coola saying Shredder "acted white" in the FW series and that he knew people who thought he was always white. I dunno what he meant by that. And he also said the Turtles "acted white" as well, which I don't know what that means either.

[plastroncafe]

That all depends on your definition of recent.
I've seen people mention it off and on for the better part of the last 10 years. But then I've only been involved in fandom online for the last 10 years or so.

I have friends who tell me that April was always a brunette until the first live-action movie when she became a redhead. Because they always used the Fred Wolf cartoon as her having brown hair, and not red.

Whereas the only brunette April I have ever known is the Mirage one.

And since it's not really mentioned all that much in the text people are allowed to make up whatever they want.

Once an author publishes a work, how people interpret that work is not for them to control.

JK Rowling never specifically mentions Harry or Hermione's ethnicity or skin color in text. She has Doodles, and signed off on cover art, but it's not an incorrect reading of Harry Potter to assume that Harry is Indian, or Hermione is black.

Conversely there were people really angry at The Hunger Games movie for making Rue a little black girl, even though Susan Collins specifically describes her as being black in her book.

[Jester]

Does April being black affect her being the Turtles human ally and one link to the outside world?

[Prowler]

April being brunette or redheaded isn't really a big deal imo. Sometimes it's hard to tell what a woman's natural hair colour even is anyway, since they love to colour their hair. Compared to job changes and age bracket changes, racial changes; hair colour change seems rather insignificant. Also, her hair didn't get ridiculously red until the 2k3 series anyway. I vaguely recall her hair being brown in some FW episodes. It depended on the animation on that episode, I guess.

Does April being black affect her being the Turtles human ally and one link to the outside world?
No. I do wonder how that will make her a more interesting character, though. I wonder what kind of story they will have for her.

Also, Raphael will be the leader in the new cartoon, really? Man, each TMNT incarnation always has considerable changes. No wonder this fandom is so divided.

[sdp]

Does Raph being a frog affect him being a teenage mutant ninja and outsider to the rest of the world?

[Jester]

Does Raph being a frog affect him being a teenage mutant ninja and outsider to the rest of the world?
Well, you see, Turtles is part of the title....so...

[sdp]

splinter then :P

[plastroncafe]

Only if you're speciest.

And besides, them being amphibians is canon, at least according to FW's Shredder.

[Prowler]

Well, you see, Turtles is part of the title....so...
The same title that says "Teenage"? And many would argue they don't really act like teenagers in most of their incarnations buy like guys in their early 20s, so let's no go there, sdp :lol:

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, that's still something to keep in mind. And even when IDW still remembers to treat them like teenagers, it's still more like older teenagers in the 16/17 range, when they're speculated to be 14/15. By all means, they should be more like the Stranger Things kids in terms of behavior and general looks. Or any other generic 80's-type Kids Go On Adventure movie.

Or Michelangelo would be in there at the very least. Which is pretty logical, all things considered with his aloofness.

[Andrew NDB]

Wait, why are we assuming April O'Neil identifies as female in the new cartoon?

[plastroncafe]

Don't mind Andrew.
He just recently learned about pro-nouns.

[Prowler]

Yeah, that's still something to keep in mind. And even when IDW still remembers to treat them like teenagers, it's still more like older teenagers in the 16/17 range, when they're speculated to be 14/15. By all means, they should be more like the Stranger Things kids in terms of behavior and general looks. Or any other generic 80's Kids Go On Adventure movie.

Raphael certainly didn't sound like a teenager in the 2k3 series :lol:. As for FW, Zach was "almost 14" as he claimed. yet the Turtles clearly referred to him as "kid". Hell Raphael even called Carter a kid in the Red Sky seasons. Ad Carter was a college student, meaning he must have been around 18-21, I guess? A teenager calling a college aged student a "kid"? :lol:

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, Raphael probably does suffer the most by being the least teenager-y, maybe followed by Leonardo. What I can see working is a 17/16/15/14 age mix, which would create allowances in some of them having more adult-like behavior and growing-out-of-childhood behavior in a spectrum. With Leonardo being the most adult in behavior and Michelangelo the least.

[Jester]

Are black people a different species? I really can't wrap my head around why this is an issue. April's skin color doesn't change he from being the Turtles HUMAN friend and link to the surface. Making Splinter a hamster changes something firmly established in cannon. Splinter is specifically mentioned to be a rat. April's race isn't coded to her character the same way?

One wonders if this would even be an issue if Andre hadn't mentioned it, and we just met April and she was black.

[Prowler]

Yeah, Raphael probably does suffer the most by being the least teenager-y, maybe followed by Leonardo. What I can see working is a 17/16/15/14 age mix, which would create allowances in some of them having more adult-like behavior and growing-out-of-childhood behavior in a spectrum. With Leonardo being the most adult in behavior and Michelangelo the least.
Well haven't people been arguing for years that the Turtles are of different ages with Leo being the oldest and Mikey the youngest? It even says on some bios doesn't it? It's borderline official at this point.

Are black people a different species? I really can't wrap my head around why this is an issue. April's skin color doesn't change he from being the Turtles HUMAN friend and link to the surface. Making Splinter a hamster changes something firmly established in cannon. Splinter is specifically mentioned to be a rat. April's race isn't coded to her character the same way?

One wonders if this would even be an issue if Andre hadn't mentioned it, and we just met April and she was black.
I don't think sdp was implying that in his not so logical comparison.

[Andrew NDB]

Well haven't people been arguing for years that the Turtles are of different ages with Leo being the oldest and Mikey the youngest? It even says on some bios doesn't it? It's borderline official at this point.

Which is dumb as all can be, asking us to believe a pet shop in NYC had four entirely different batches of red-earred slider hatchlings and that one kid just happened to grab one baby turtle from each of them. Preposterous. And even if so, how in the hell would they even know who hatched first? Or second? Or third?

It's dumb, dumb, dumb. It's just people out there who aren't even thinking just wanting to find and grasp at anything they can to "improve" the Turtles' individuality. They don't need it, they're fine.

[plastroncafe]

One wonders if this would even be an issue if Andre hadn't mentioned it, and we just met April and she was black.

You know it would have.
We fanboys are a conservative lot.

Conservative being someone who likes things as they are, and would like to conserve them, not in the political spectrum sense of the word.

[Candy Kappa]

Red-Eared Sliders mature individually by size not age, so it's entirely possible for them to be "different age" through different maturity rate

[Prowler]

Which is dumb as all can be, asking us to believe a pet shop in NYC had four entirely different batches of red-earred slider hatchlings and that one kid just happened to grab one baby turtle from each of them. Preposterous. And even if so, how in the hell would they even know who hatched first? Or second? Or third?

It's dumb, dumb, dumb. It's just people out there who aren't even thinking just wanting to find and grasp at anything they can to "improve" the Turtles' individuality. They don't need it, they're fine.

I wonder how you feel about those cartoon episodes where one of the Turtles' celebrates their birthday :lol:

But yeah, I agree with you. Although how can we even know exactly how old the Turtles are or even make an estimate? I mean Turtles live a long time don't they? What makes people so sure, including the turtles, that they're teenagers. I guess they were infants when they fell down the drain and the ooze initially gave them the human brains of children and then they developed maturely and physically like ordinary human children do? And by the time the actual series starts they're in the teenage phase of their lives?

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder how you feel about those cartoon episodes where one of the Turtles' celebrates their birthday :lol:

Only apathy.

But yeah, I agree with you. Although how can we even know exactly how old the Turtles are or even make an estimate?

Best guess they could do is call Mutation Day their shared birthday. I'm pretty sure that's the day the Turtles were celebrating on their (shared!) 18th and 19th birthday parties in Vol. 3.

I mean Turtles live a long time don't they?

Not red-earred sliders. Only about... 20-some years in captivity. A little more in the wild. Now, mutant red-earred sliders? Who knows. If Mirage is any indicator, about 130 years. But factor it like with Splinter. He's a brown rat, right? They live two years, max. In Mirage he lived about 30 years before dying of natural causes. That kind of gives you the multiplier.

Other turtles can live a long time. Alligator snapping turtles can live 200 years.

[IndigoErth]

Raphael certainly didn't sound like a teenager in the 2k3 series :lol:. As for FW, Zach was "almost 14" as he claimed. yet the Turtles clearly referred to him as "kid". Hell Raphael even called Carter a kid in the Red Sky seasons. Ad Carter was a college student, meaning he must have been around 18-21, I guess? A teenager calling a college aged student a "kid"? :lol:
Yeah, pretty odd and funny. lol At that point I just ignore the "teenage" thing and figure they've in fact aged into their 20s, even if it's never mentioned or acknowledged.

Red-Eared Sliders mature individually by size not age, so it's entirely possible for them to be "different age" through different maturity rate
Something I learned from you guys here and has kind of become my own accepted theory on the age thing.

Same breeder/owner (of the parents), but different nest seasons and grew at different rates; Mikey the fastest (and youngest), Leo the slowest (and oldest), and Donnie and Raph just average (and probably from same nest, given it's always been unknown which is "older"), all reaching a sellable size around the same time.


Although as for how they'd even know... Who knows. Maybe the shop owner was able to supply that info on the year/month of hatching.

[Andrew NDB]

Although as for how they'd even know... Who knows. Maybe the shop owner was able to supply that info on the year/month of hatching.

And who would he supply it to? The kid's dad? The kid? How would they have ever passed this information on to the Turtles?

[Jester]

And thus the Nick series used Mutation Day as a stand-in.

[sdp]

Wait, why are we assuming April O'Neil identifies as female in the new cartoon?

I had mentioned this before and Plastron mentioned we may have already had our first trans April. My guess is movie April.


We fanboys are a conservative lot.


This is definitely true, just look at all the discussions for all reboots and their changes. Anyone remember Catwoman the movie? :lol: People went crazy, I didn't care since it wasn't meant to be Selina Kyle and her super powers made sense since it's in continuity with Returns whose catwoman also "gained powers". I think I'm the sole fan of that movie in all of the internet.


I'm actually really open to change and like new things, I'm usually a fan of the lesser liked examples of games and whatnot. but even I have my "established" ideas of what a certain franchise needs and shouldn't change.

[IndigoErth]

Hey, I said "who knows," didn't I? lol As much as I usually want to try to make logical sense of stuff myself, well some of it is going to have to be cartoon magic that what went on in a small pet shop in NYC in the 80s is an unknown.

[Powder]

And thus the Nick series used Mutation Day as a stand-in.

Which I love.

[CyberCubed]

I wouldn't mind if "black April" looks like Angel from 2k3/IDW. Where she's dark skinned but basically ambiguous.

[Papenbrook]

I wouldn't mind if "black April" looks like Angel from 2k3/IDW. Where she's dark skinned but basically ambiguous.

What do you mean by "ambiguous"?

[CyberCubed]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3639/3334605567_3a278a8261.jpg

I can see April looking similar to this.

[Coola Yagami]

This whole "April might have been black" thing seems to be rather recent though, no? Not to mention she has been very white looking in incarnation since Mirage, so it just seems a bit odd for her to suddenly be black.

Ofc not mentioning her race means no one is certain for sure... except laird and Eastman, if they EVER had race in mind when coming up with her design that is. But tbh, she's statistically more likely to be White, considering her Irish last name. When people write novels they don't usually mention a character's racial history or anything. Just like if I watch anime I'm gonna assume people with Japanese names are fully Japanese until stated otherwise.


Well I'll be damned. Never ever have I seen someone argue this. I only remember Coola saying Shredder "acted white" in the FW series and that he knew people who thought he was always white. I dunno what he meant by that. And he also said the Turtles "acted white" as well, which I don't know what that means either.

Well... Shredder does act pretty white or at the very least totally American with all the jokes, insults and wordplay. I don't recall OT Shredder ever saying a Japanese expression. In contrast to that Splinter is stuck speaking like the stereotypical Miyagi speak.

Of course the turtles are white. California surfer dudes in new York. Even when it comes to Japanese stuff, other than Leo the rest come off as Americanized white dudes trying to do that wild and crazy Japanese thing. Though they sure had fun making Mikey talk black on the Nicktoon, son.

As for Black April, the 'feeling left out because she's black in an all white school' might work BUT no cartoon for kids is going to show such blatant racism against her. I bet they'll look for any excuse to have the schoolkids shun her other than race.

Now I do wonder just how much stereotypes this version of April is going to endure. We've never had a particularly cool and modern April before.

[CyberCubed]

Shredder talks about Japanese stuff in various OT episodes, and referenced Japan a lot of times. I'm not sure if he ever said any Japanese words although I might be forgetting something. Not to mention when Shredder's Mother and brother showed up in the cartoon, they were also both Japanese. Kazuo Saki and his mother was a Japanese woman.

[Andrew NDB]

As for Black April, the 'feeling left out because she's black in an all white school'

Do those even exist anymore? I mean outside of, like, parts of Utah or something?

[Utrommaniac]

His quarters in the Technodrome are also shown to be very Japanese in aesthetic. And when he takes his mask off (or lazily puts a hologram of himself over it?), there's absolutely no doubt that he's from Japan.

[Coola Yagami]

Do those even exist anymore? I mean outside of, like, parts of Utah or something?

Honestly i don't know.

As for OT Shredder, it doesn't matter if he referenced Japan or whatever. He had no accent and spoke with enough perfect Anerican English to do comedy stand up.

[Coola Yagami]

I do wonder how far they're gonna go with the stereotypes. I hope they don't make April some kind of hoodlum or whatever. Just make her a black scientist/news reporter/student without any negative connotations. This is Nick's chance to showcase a positive black character.

[PApagreg]

I do wonder how far they're gonna go with the stereotypes. I hope they don't make April some kind of hoodlum or whatever. Just make her a black scientist/news reporter/student without any negative connotations. This is Nick's chance to showcase a positive black character.

Why would nick make April a hoodlum, its not like the network has a history of insensitive depictions of black people hell going by previous black people in Nick April is going to be a smart tech geek

[Coola Yagami]

Why would nick make April a hoodlum, its not like the network has a history of insensitive depictions of black people hell going by previous black people in Nick April is going to be a smart tech geek

Who knows. But hey maybe April will be a nerd.

[CyberCubed]

Also this was a flashback to Shredder's childhood in one episode:

https://i1.wp.com/www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tmnt8_002.jpg?resize=491%2C375

I love that he's still wearing his helmet as a teenager. :lol:

Notice how they're wearing Japanese uniforms and Saki's skin tone.

[Coola Yagami]

Also this was a flashback to Shredder's childhood in one episode:

https://i1.wp.com/www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tmnt8_002.jpg?resize=491%2C375

I love that he's still wearing his helmet as a teenager. :lol:

Notice how they're wearing Japanese uniforms and Saki's skin tone.

It's all about skin tone with you.

[PApagreg]

Also this was a flashback to Shredder's childhood in one episode:

https://i1.wp.com/www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tmnt8_002.jpg?resize=491%2C375

I love that he's still wearing his helmet as a teenager. :lol:

Notice how they're wearing Japanese uniforms and Saki's skin tone.

I bet you 5 bucks Saki was a Bancho

[Prowler]

Well... Shredder does act pretty white or at the very least totally American with all the jokes, insults and wordplay. I don't recall OT Shredder ever saying a Japanese expression. In contrast to that Splinter is stuck speaking like the stereotypical Miyagi speak.

Of course the turtles are white. California surfer dudes in new York. Even when it comes to Japanese stuff, other than Leo the rest come off as Americanized white dudes trying to do that wild and crazy Japanese thing. Though they sure had fun making Mikey talk black on the Nicktoon, son.

As for Black April, the 'feeling left out because she's black in an all white school' might work BUT no cartoon for kids is going to show such blatant racism against her. I bet they'll look for any excuse to have the schoolkids shun her other than race.

Now I do wonder just how much stereotypes this version of April is going to endure. We've never had a particularly cool and modern April before.
Well maybe Uncle Phil just couldn't do an Asian accent, and thus Shredder spoke with a very American accent. Also remember Uncle Phil was black. And remember that Shredder's mother and brother both sounded more Asian. As did Splinter and Lotus and that flower lady. Maybe James Avery just couldn't do a japanese accent.

How are they white? Only white people in USA can be surfers or something? What exactly would stop people from other races from having similar personalities to the Turtles? And that being said, I had never thought about what the Turtles would look like as human beings until you mentioned it lol.

Well the VAs of the FW Turtles and the 2k3 Turtles were all White, so ofc they'd "sound white". But that means nothing really. Shredder has been voiced by 3 Black men so far, and no one thinks that makes the character less Japanese. Just like lots of kid and teenage male cartoons characters are voiced by women doesn't make the characters actual women. :P

Also this was a flashback to Shredder's childhood in one episode:

https://i1.wp.com/www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tmnt8_002.jpg?resize=491%2C375

I love that he's still wearing his helmet as a teenager. :lol:

Notice how they're wearing Japanese uniforms and Saki's skin tone.
haha yeah him wearing the helmet was funny. Also, in the Shredderville episode they show a video of him when he was a baby, also wearing a helmet. that one was even funnier.

What about his skin tone? He had the same as he did when he was an adult. Why is that strange?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

In the beginning of the FW series, Shredder did have a slight Japanese accent but dropped it before the First season even ended.

Atleast he sounds more Japanese than Nick and 2k3 Shredder though :P

[Prowler]

In the beginning of the FW series, Shredder did have a slight Japanese accent but dropped it before the First season even ended.

Atleast he sounds more Japanese than Nick and 2k3 Shredder though :P

In the 2k3 series I think Scottie Ray tried to give him an East Asian like accent. Not really Japanese but an accent that could fit someone from Korea, China or Japan. Karai had a thicker accent, iirc.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I will say though, I thought that the cartoon Splinter VAs with the exception of Hoon Lee did do a pretty good job at sounding asian.

I never got why some people didn't like 2k3 Splinters voice. Sure, I prefer the deep voice from the 80s and 2k12 toon but i found his 2k3 voice to be alright.

[Prowler]

Wow the tags for this thread :lol:

[ProphetofGanja]

Of course the turtles are white

The Turtles are green, dude

I don't see why we'd try to impose race on them

[DestronMirage22]

Wow the tags for this thread :lol:

Yeah, this show has already led to some pretty interesting discussions and mixed receptions with all the changes that are being made.
And it hasn't even come out yet.
Could this be the next TMNT 2014?

The Turtles are green, dude

I don't see why we'd try to impose race on them

Yeah, they're turtles. They don't have race.

But, to be fair, there was that episode of the OT where one of the guys became human and was Caucasian.
And then there's 2012 Mikey.

[Prowler]

The Turtles are green, dude

I don't see why we'd try to impose race on them

I've always felt that the Turtles in each cartoon were into what was popular with the youth in general at the time.

[ProphetofGanja]

I've always felt that the Turtles in each cartoon were into what was popular with the youth in general at the time.

Exactly.

Lest we all need to be reminded, we're talking about teenage mutant ninja turtles. They have no understanding of what it means to be human, they've just been picking up bits of culture along the way. And living in New York City, one of the biggest melting pots in the world, they would have been exposed to a pretty wide variety of things.

Although now that we're talking about it I'm very curious what their origin story is going to be in the new show

[Prowler]

Exactly.

Lest we all need to be reminded, we're talking about teenage mutant ninja turtles. They have no understanding of what it means to be human, they've just been picking up bits of culture along the way. And living in New York City, one of the biggest melting pots in the world, they would have been exposed to a pretty wide variety of things.

Although now that we're talking about it I'm very curious what their origin story is going to be in the new show

Yeah, remember in the FW series in the very first episode they said "we know a lot about humans. We watch a lot of tv" :lol:

FWIW, my mother always thought the Turtles were Japanese. I mean, she obviously knows it's an American property, but she thought the Turtles themselves were Japanese, just like Splinter and/or Yoshi and Shredder. Which is also why she found them having Italian names to be very odd :lol:

[ProphetofGanja]

Yeah, remember in the FW series in the very first episode they said "we know a lot about humans. We watch a lot of tv" :lol:

FWIW, my mother always thought the Turtles were Japanese. I mean, she obviously knows it's an American property, but she thought the Turtles themselves were Japanese, just like Splinter and/or Yoshi and Shredder. Which is also why she found them having Italian names to be very odd :lol:

Well, she wouldn't be wrong if she was reading IDW!

[IndigoErth]

FWIW, my mother always thought the Turtles were Japanese.
In cases where Yoshi became Splinter and a little DNA mixing may be involved, then I gotta agree with her that if they've got a touch of human in them from Splinter than they'd indeed be Japanese. :)

Unless... the kid in other versions last touched them (or a pet shop owner), then who knows.



Although when voice actors taken into consideration... until the next series mixes it up, so far they've been a bunch of 'green apples' much of the time, so to speak. :tlol:

[Coola Yagami]

Well maybe Uncle Phil just couldn't do an Asian accent, and thus Shredder spoke with a very American accent. Also remember Uncle Phil was black. And remember that Shredder's mother and brother both sounded more Asian. As did Splinter and Lotus and that flower lady. Maybe James Avery just couldn't do a japanese accent.

How are they white? Only white people in USA can be surfers or something? What exactly would stop people from other races from having similar personalities to the Turtles? And that being said, I had never thought about what the Turtles would look like as human beings until you mentioned it lol.

Well the VAs of the FW Turtles and the 2k3 Turtles were all White, so ofc they'd "sound white". But that means nothing really. Shredder has been voiced by 3 Black men so far, and no one thinks that makes the character less Japanese. Just like lots of kid and teenage male cartoons characters are voiced by women doesn't make the characters actual women. :P


haha yeah him wearing the helmet was funny. Also, in the Shredderville episode they show a video of him when he was a baby, also wearing a helmet. that one was even funnier.

What about his skin tone? He had the same as he did when he was an adult. Why is that strange?

Pretty sure he could if he was given the direction. He did more of an accent in the first 5 eps. Actually I kinda think Nick Shredder was basically told to sound just like Trigon and forgot "oh yea, he's Japanese too".

The Turtles basically acted and talked white, C'mon you all know this, even though technically they're Turtles. If all 4 of them were cast by black VAs and spoke will all sorts of black slang, I know fans would have been calling them the black turtles even though, again, they're Turtles not human. Same if they were voiced by and sounded Hispanic. It doesn't change the fact that they're turtles and not humans, but you still would have people making green card jokes.

[Prowler]

In cases where Yoshi became Splinter and a little DNA mixing may be involved, then I gotta agree with her that if they've got a touch of human in them from Splinter than they'd indeed be Japanese. :)

Unless... the kid in other versions last touched them (or a pet shop owner), then who knows.



Although when voice actors taken into consideration... until the next series mixes it up, so far they've been a bunch of 'green apples' much of the time, so to speak. :tlol:
I mean they've been raised by a rodent who used to be a Japanese man, or a rodent who was the pet rat of a Japanese man, so yeah it kinda makes sense.

Pretty sure he could if he was given the direction. He did more of an accent in the first 5 eps. Actually I kinda think Nick Shredder was basically told to sound just like Trigon and forgot "oh yea, he's Japanese too".

The Turtles basically acted and talked white, C'mon you all know this, even though technically they're Turtles. If all 4 of them were cast by black VAs and spoke will all sorts of black slang, I know fans would have been calling them the black turtles even though, again, they're Turtles not human. Same if they were voiced by and sounded Hispanic. It doesn't change the fact that they're turtles and not humans, but you still would have people making green card jokes.
Do all Black american people use that slang you're talking about? I seriously doubt so. Also, the Turtles have always been depicted as being into things that the youth is currently into. They tend to like rock and rap music, and also like to surf and skateboard. It's not just White people who surf, skateboard and like rock and rap music.

So yeah, it's silly to equate the Turtles to human "races" or nationalities since they're Turtles and not human. They've been influenced by Japanese culture through Splinter and by American pop culture through TV and living in NYC. That's the closest they get to being human.

[ProphetofGanja]

I mean they've been raised by a rodent who used to be a Japanese man, or a rodent who was the pet rat of a Japanese man, so yeah it kinda makes sense.


Do all Black american people use that slang you're talking about? I seriously doubt so. Also, the Turtles have always been depicted as being into things that the youth is currently into. They tend to like rock and rap music, and also like to surf and skateboard. It's not just White people who surf, skateboard and like rock and rap music.

So yeah, it's silly to equate the Turtles to human "races" or nationalities since they're Turtles and not human. They've been influenced by Japanese culture through Splinter and by American pop culture through TV and living in NYC. That's the closest they get to being human.

Yeah. Claiming that there's such thing as "acting white" or "talking black" is pretty ignorant.

[CyberCubed]

In the new 2018 cartoon both Raphael and Michelangelo also have black voice actors for the first time. Given these actors sound like they're using just slightly altered versions of their regular real life voices for the Turtles, I guess two of the Turtles will still have a black type of voice in the show.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

He's black as fu*k. And voiced by Bumper Robinson.

I guess he doesn't qualify as African American to cubed because he doesn't say things like "yessa massa", "sup dawg", "yo", "kill whitey" and "shee-it negro!"


All this talk of race reminds me of this golden oldie by Nines.

[Coola Yagami]

In the new 2018 cartoon both Raphael and Michelangelo also have black voice actors for the first time. Given these actors sound like they're using just slightly altered versions of their regular real life voices for the Turtles, I guess two of the Turtles will still have a black type of voice in the show.

Too soon to tell.

[CyberCubed]

The weirdest slang the Nick cartoon got away with is Michelangelo saying, "What's up, my ninja's?" to his brothers. He said it in at least two different episodes as well.

As you guys know, "What's up my ninja's?" is clearly based on something else that I can't post here. Hint: See Rush Hour 1 when Jackie Chan says it to the black guy in the bar.

[Coola Yagami]

The weirdest slang the Nick cartoon got away with is Michelangelo saying, "What's up, my ninja's?" to his brothers. He said it in at least two different episodes as well.

As you guys know, "What's up my ninja's?" is clearly based on something else that I can't post here. Hint: See Rush Hour 1 when Jackie Chan says it to the black guy in the bar.

I remember those TMNT 'Ninja Please' shirts that got some backlash. I forgot if those were legit or like fake fan shirts or something.

[Sumac]

Wait, why are we assuming April O'Neil identifies as female in the new cartoon?
Nice one! :tlol:

Don't worry, soon creators go to it, when it'll become "new pandering hotness".

[sdp]

I wish I could find the thread where one guy mentioned Shredder being black and posting screen caps as evidence anyone remember it? I tried searching but couldn't find it.

Do those even exist anymore? I mean outside of, like, parts of Utah or something?

:lol: That was literally my school, only one black kid in all of the High School, and not to say stereotypes are true but most of the parking lot were trucks and if they weren't then hummers.

[Xav]

No, his girlfriend was latina, the character was meant to be white, I did my research and there's some confusion but she was not intended to be another race, at least that we can find any evidence of. But Kevin said his girlfriend was African American and I don't see why he would lie about that.

[CyberCubed]

Maybe he got confused. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

:lol: That was literally my school, only one black kid in all of the High School

But how long ago was that? Even when I was a kid, it was like... maybe 50% white, 50% everything else.

[sdp]

But how long ago was that? Even when I was a kid, it was like... maybe 50% white, 50% everything else.

Small City, Southern Missouri, 10 years ago.

But Kevin said his girlfriend was African American and I don't see why he would lie about that.

odd, the latina thing came up in more than one place.

[CyberCubed]

Nowadays everyone is mixed. The only white people in my school were Russians. They all came from Mother Russia.

[Sumac]

Nowadays everyone is mixed. The only white people in my school were Russians. They all came from Mother Russia.
Did they have vodka drinking bears with balalaikas and ushankas?
If not, than they must have been Polish disguising themselves as Russians. :lol:

[Prowler]

From now on anything is possible.

It's only a matter of time until we get a gay Ninja Turtle, guys. And then one of the various "LGBT in TMNT" threads will be bumped once it's confirmed. And I'm going even further and say that they'll try the female turtle idea again. Maybe they'll bring back Venus with a different origin and personality.

[IndigoErth]

Someday Tang Shen is totally gonna live for once, move to NYC with Yoshi (or without?) and she'll end up mutating into Venus and be the Turtles' mom.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Has this turned into a "everyone become Cybercubed" thread? :lol:

[Utrommaniac]

Someday Tang Shen is totally gonna live for once, move to NYC with Yoshi (or without?) and she'll end up mutating into Venus and be the Turtles' mom.

I'd be down for that :D . It would even out Splinter's mutation, because she'd be the one trying to pull them out of the Ooze. Then Splinter, having handled rats recently, would step in the mutagen by accident after seeing what was going on.

[CyberCubed]

Some universes ignore Tang Shen altogether. She never existed in the original cartoon, so Hamato Yoshi never had a girlfriend/wife in that series.

[neatoman]

Some universes ignore Tang Shen altogether. She never existed in the original cartoon, so Hamato Yoshi never had a girlfriend/wife in that series.

But Scotty, those versions all suck.

[Sumac]

From now on anything is possible.
Insanity was never so tangible. :tlol:

Someday Tang Shen is totally gonna live for once, move to NYC with Yoshi (or without?) and she'll end up mutating into Venus and be the Turtles' mom.
I am OK with that.
Or replace Yoshi-Splinter with Tang Shen.

[Utrommaniac]

That might be a little more "unacceptable".

However, it would still be nice for the turtles to have an actual living mother figure in the picture for once.

[sdp]

What if Tang Shen is black?

[ProphetofGanja]

Then we could have Ninja Turtles raised by a Lady Afro Samurai

[plastroncafe]

Which would be AMAZING

[ProphetofGanja]

Right!?!?!

[MrPliggins]

*****deleted*****

[CyberCubed]

That woman is barely black though.

[sdp]

please delete the pic MrPliggins, you're going to ruin the narrative.

[oldmanwinters]

*****deleted*****

please delete the pic MrPliggins, you're going to ruin the narrative.

Huh? That was just sarcasm, right?

[sdp]

I didn't mean actually delete it :lol:

Now I wish I had saved it.

[MrPliggins]

Huh? That was just sarcasm, right?

Sorry guys... :lol:
I didn't read the last few pages so I didn't get the context of the deletion request. Here's the pic again. Was just wondering if this image shows the real-life woman April was based on, as talked about on page 14. She looks similar at least.

http://i68.tinypic.com/j79qub.jpg

[Coola Yagami]

Wish I saved it too. Damn censorship. We're all adults here, stop with the censorship.

[Candy Kappa]

Sorry guys... :lol:
I didn't read the last few pages so I didn't get the context of the deletion request. Here's the pic again. Was just wondering if this image shows the real-life woman April was based on, as talked about on page 14. She looks similar at least.

http://i68.tinypic.com/j79qub.jpg

I guess it looks like her:

Finally got a photo of her, the "REAL" April O'neil. Here she is (wearing grey).

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11224899_10153072228264065_1062059800313484527_o.j pg?oh=00c14958fc7ad5f9f28b4d824f4fd59d&oe=5A13E3F1

The pic is courtesy Mark Bode, from the London premier of the original TMNT film. From Left- Molly Bode, Mark Bode, April (last name not given), Kevin Eastman, mother of the film's writer Paul Jenkins, Paul Jenkins, Eric Talbot.

[CyberCubed]

So Kevin had a mixed girlfriend then? She's not really black, she's caramel. Most likely because she's half white/half black.

[Prowler]

So now we're discussing Eastman's love life? What the hell, 'Drome?! Go out and find yourselves gfs instead :lol:

[MrPliggins]

I posted it because I thought some might be interested to see another photo of the woman who was the inspiration for April, not to talk about Kevin's love life. Should have known it would stir something like that.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

i think it's awesome she partially inspired April O' Neal, it's a nice and moving tribute to Kevin Eastman's old girlfriend.

[pferreira]

Sorry guys... :lol:
I didn't read the last few pages so I didn't get the context of the deletion request. Here's the pic again. Was just wondering if this image shows the real-life woman April was based on, as talked about on page 14. She looks similar at least. Oh cool, he has the TMNT reprints book I have. Ah yes the memories... 8)

[CyberCubed]

The Mirage color reprints always colored her white.

[plastroncafe]

Light-skinned, might be a more accurate term.

[CyberCubed]

Do you have those First Colored reprinted from the 80's? She was blatantly colored white in them.

[plastroncafe]

Do you have those First Colored reprinted from the 80's? She was blatantly colored white in them.

I do, and she had light skin.

[CyberCubed]

But that's white. She wasn't drawn with caramel skin.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I really feel like this thread needs a little Avenue Q sing-along right about now..... (Those familiar with it know to which song I am referring....)

[plastroncafe]

The Internet Is For Porn?

;)

[sdp]

I like how many liberties people take in their research when word of god says otherwise.

[sdp]

Case closed, April was not black:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.mx/2018/02/was-april-oneil-originally-black-in.html

[Sabacooza]

Case closed, April was not black:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.mx/2018/02/was-april-oneil-originally-black-in.htmlAnd yet I'm sure you'll still have people say she was originally black after having read it.

[bwwd]

her facial features when she was first depicted in second mirage comic book are white also her hair style is caucasian and doesnt look like black woman hair style so this is how i see it, later incarnations/variations do not count cause there were variations.
Most turtles cartoons were based on these first issues where shredder and mousers ,baxter are, and yes baxter should be black in cartoons and its dumb they made him this nerdy ginger scientist with mad professor hairstyle.

[Sabacooza]

If Nick really wanted to make a mark on TMNT then make some brand new characters of diversity. Ones that could actually have staying power and add to the mythos but nope, they'd rather pursue a more lazy way of showing diversity by changing an established character.

[sdp]

If Nick really wanted to make a mark on TMNT then make some brand new characters of diversity. Ones that could actually have staying power and add to the mythos but nope, they'd rather pursue a more lazy way of showing diversity by changing an established character.

This thread isn't about Rise's Black April though but April in general being black which we now know was not true.

As far as Rise, I was on the same page as you completely, I hate race changing whether it's asian to white or white to black and prefer having new original cool characters of those races but look at it this way, this is not a "main" TMNT universe, it won't have Shredder as the villain, Raph is leader, it's all about magic. Take it as a fun alternative TMNT universe, like when DC comic heroes visit those universes and Luthor is the good guy, those universes might not be the ideal "main" universe but are still cool. The fact that April has been black in previous alternative universe storylines makes it ok.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Not red-earred sliders. Only about... 20-some years in captivity. A little more in the wild. Now, mutant red-earred sliders? Who knows. If Mirage is any indicator, about 130 years. But factor it like with Splinter. He's a brown rat, right? They live two years, max. In Mirage he lived about 30 years before dying of natural causes. That kind of gives you the multiplier.

Other turtles can live a long time. Alligator snapping turtles can live 200 years.


Actually, rats can live up to seven years. Even mice can reach four or five years under good care. Most rodents live for at least three to four, in good conditions. And alligator snappers reach about 150, not 200- that age range is almost entirely reserved for Galapagos and Aldabaran tortoises.


Yeah, this show has already led to some pretty interesting discussions and mixed receptions with all the changes that are being made.
And it hasn't even come out yet.
Could this be the next TMNT 2014?


Yeah, they're turtles. They don't have race.

But, to be fair, there was that episode of the OT where one of the guys became human and was Caucasian.
And then there's 2012 Mikey.


That would be Mikey, in The Gang's All Here. One of my fave Mikey-centric eps, for the simple reason that it brought a lot of development to him, and was pretty funny, to boot!


The Internet Is For Porn?

;)

Um, no.... I was thinking of "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist". See, now you made me go and say it outright. But it still fits....

[pferreira]

Case closed, April was not black:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.mx/2018/02/was-april-oneil-originally-black-in.htmlThank you! That's a lot of research by the writer.

That would be Mikey, in The Gang's All Here. One of my fave Mikey-centric eps, for the simple reason that it brought a lot of development to him, and was pretty funny, to boot! I always enjoyed that episode.

[CyberCubed]

I guess black April was a failure after all.

[oldmanwinters]

hihEhsdwiIk

[Coola Yagami]

I guess black April was a failure after all.

Not her, just her show.

[sdp]

Not her, just her show.

I don't think anyone who praised the show say April was any good, she was usually the negative aspect they would mention.

[CyberCubed]

Rise April was poorly received not because she was black per se, but because they gave her the "angry black woman" stereotype persona which is actually pretty racist when you think about it. You know that stereotype that all black women are, "loud and proud" and that they "can't do no wrong." Also they made her a savage when she fought like jumping around and biting people (seriously wtf?), making her look like an animal.

There would be a great way to make a respectable black April, but I'm pretty sure the next cartoon will have her white again.

[neatoman]

I'm beginning to hate the fact that I created this thread.

[Leo656]

I'm pretty sure the next cartoon will have her white again.

Nah, given the current social climate I imagine they'd get a ton of sh*t from people if they did that. She'll definitely be black in the next project. Probably the next several. Absolutely the next live-action movie.

[CyberCubed]

Eh, I'm not sure about that. If Rise was a huge success and black April became mainstream then maybe it'd become a staple going forward, but the show was a blip on the radar and already feels like it's going to be forgotten.

Pretty sure she'll be white again with red hair most likely, since the hair color has been consistent for the last few series.

"Make April white again!" is already a slogan picking up steam too.

[Leo656]

:lol: No it isn't. C'mon.

Anyways, it has nothing to do with whether the show was a success, and everything to do with how many people would cry "Foul" if they walked it back and made April white again. And how some of those people have a habit of taking things too far when they don't get their way.

People vandalized Graceland, for f*ck's sake. Nick absolutely doesn't want any "peaceful protestors" spray-painting their offices and smashing windows in the name of "representation" if they decide to make April white again.

We're in the "appeasement/reparations" phase of modern history. It is what it is.

[Cryomancer]

Just get a red headed black woman, problem solved

[Coola Yagami]

:lol: No it isn't. C'mon.

Anyways, it has nothing to do with whether the show was a success, and everything to do with how many people would cry "Foul" if they walked it back and made April white again. And how some of those people have a habit of taking things too far when they don't get their way.

People vandalized Graceland, for f*ck's sake. Nick absolutely doesn't want any "peaceful protestors" spray-painting their offices and smashing windows in the name of "representation" if they decide to make April white again.

We're in the "appeasement/reparations" phase of modern history. It is what it is.

And lord knows what those nuts will do if they cast say... Laura Bailey to voice NuBlack April.....

[Sumac]

And lord knows what those nuts will do if they cast say... Laura Bailey to voice NuBlack April.....
She'll get a pass, since she is one of them, as most of the Hollywood / voice actors, worthless inteligencia parasites.

I don't deny their talents as actors, but their judgement and thoughts on society is so far removed from what normal people want, it is just hilarious.

Shouting "BLM" and "defund the police" is easy, when you have a personal house, surrounded with barbed wire and walls and a private security and means to escape as fast as possible.

[Coola Yagami]

She'll get a pass, since she is one of them, as most of the Hollywood / voice actors, worthless inteligencia parasites.

I don't deny their talents as actors, but their judgement and thoughts on society is so far removed from what normal people want, it is just hilarious.

Shouting "BLM" and "defund the police" is easy, when you have a personal house, surrounded with barbed wire and walls and a private security and means to escape as fast as possible.

Hard to say, sometimes these guys get so nuts with the virtue points, they eat their own.

[Sumac]

Hard to say, sometimes these guys get so nuts with the virtue points, they eat their own.
Only if she do something "horrible", like saying "men can not be women" or "whoring is not a work".

[Dizagaox]

I wouldn't assume anything. But she'll likely be openly cast as any race in future projects, same with Casey too.

[Galactus]

Nick absolutely doesn't want any "peaceful protestors" spray-painting their offices and smashing windows in the name of "representation" if they decide to make April white again.

That's not going to happen.

She'll get a pass, since she is one of them, as most of the Hollywood / voice actors, worthless inteligencia parasites.

I don't deny their talents as actors, but their judgement and thoughts on society is so far removed from what normal people want, it is just hilarious.

Shouting "BLM" and "defund the police" is easy, when you have a personal house, surrounded with barbed wire and walls and a private security and means to escape as fast as possible.

Right. All those BLM protesters on the streets are ultra privileged Hollywood elites.

[Sumac]

Right. All those BLM protesters on the streets are ultra privileged Hollywood elites.
They are either white rich kids students or welfare parasites.
Neither care what will happen with normal people.

[Galactus]

They are either white rich kids students or welfare parasites.
Neither care what will happen with normal people.

Awful lot of black people in those crowds for then all to rick white kids.

[Sumac]

Awful lot of black people in those crowds for then all to rick white kids.
I've addressed it before: welfare is a problem in US.

It will become even bigger problem if democRATS will come to power: they will try to hook to welfare as many as possible to guarantee that they ALWAYS will be voted in.
Welcome to the one-party-US. Hopefully you'll ready to learn greatest speeches of Harris and Cortez and report your neighbor for wrong-think faster than he reported you.

[Galactus]

I've addressed it before: welfare is a problem in US.

So most or all of those black people are on welfare?

Even if that was remotely close to be being true would it invalidate their protesting the murder of fellow black people by the police?

It will become even bigger problem if democRATS will come to power: they will try to hook to welfare as many as possible to guarantee that they ALWAYS will be voted in.
Welcome to the one-party-US. Hopefully you'll ready to learn greatest speeches of Harris and Cortez and report your neighbor for wrong-think faster than he reported you.

Well only one politician right now is using his power to try and dismantle as many democratic institutions ensure that he (and by extension his party) will never be out of power and foment an attitude amongst his base that should he be voted out there be violence in the streets and he isn't a Democrat.

[Sumac]

So most or all of those black people are on welfare?

Even if that was remotely close to be being true would it invalidate their protesting the murder of fellow black people by the police?
This is a problem, but not as much as BLM and their allies are trying to make it to be. Also, burning cities won't help it, but will lead to opposite result: more rich people and businesses leaving, overwhelming amount of crime...it won't be "police free towns with peaceful people", they will become "crime-ridden shitholes, which should be cleaned by military, before decent people will starts living there again".

Also, most of those people killed were either aggressive or criminals. I am sure there are some exceptions, but it happens with people of all races and sexes.

Maybe we should address uncomfortable problem, which is overwhelming amount of Black criminals? Left media do a lot to obfuscate this, like in Brianna Taylor case, who was a drug-dealer, but presented in media like a total innocent or Floyd who has become saint in everything, but name, who was just a generic thug, who would've died anyway from overdose.

Yeah, I know, someone will say "but this is a problem with integration, yada, yadda, yadda, white people need to do more...", but, how come that say, there is no such problem with Asians? Or African Blacks?

If some elements don't want to integrate into larger society, even though they have been given a lot of preferences, maybe the problem with those elements and not with society?

France is a good example of similar problem: where immigrants were given a lot of money and some opportunities, but they refuse to integrate into larger society. I know, it is not black and white case, but at this point, blaming everything on "society", "white people", "racism" and so on is just dumb.

Well only one politician right now is using his power to try and dismantle as many democratic institutions ensure that he (and by extension his party) will never be out of power and foment an attitude amongst his base that should he be voted out there be violence in the streets and he isn't a Democrat.
I want to hear what Trump did to ensure he stays in power.
Did he eliminated electoral college? Did he started mail voting, which can be (and most likely will be) easily falsified? Had he a 4 year-long campaign on the biggest media (mostly consisting out of lies) to smear absolutely everyone among his political enemies? Do Twitter and Facebook under his control to the point their censor bad articles about him?

Also, it weren't Republicans burning their own cities, establishing "independent countries" in the cities and being violent against everyone this year.

So, what exactly Trump did to ensure he stays in power, aside from vague threats? And it not like democRATS don't threat violence against Trump-supporters.

[Galactus]

This is a problem, but not as much as BLM and their allies are trying to make it to be. Also, burning cities won't help it, but will lead to opposite result: more rich people and businesses leaving, overwhelming amount of crime...it won't be "police free towns with peaceful people", they will become "crime-ridden shitholes, which should be cleaned by military, before decent people will starts living there again".

I'm not sure that mostly peaceful protests that sometimes become riotous is much of problem (or a problem at all) compared decades of continuous murders of black people by the police.

Also, most of those people killed were either aggressive or criminals. I am sure there are some exceptions, but it happens with people of all races and sexes.

Most of them aren't. I think that's a pretty well established fact at this point.

Of the African Americans that are criminals few of them have committed crimes or resisted arrest to the point that warrants the level of violence against them. We've long accepted that your punishment matches your crime. Someone who is guilty of...say shoplifting shouldn't die in police custody.

All this happens disproportionately to black people. There is something wrong with a system that a black man selling pirated DVDs is shot dead on the spot whereas white guys like Dylan Roof who shoot up a church or school get taken alive. Also when it does happen to white people it almost always results in the officers in question going to jail.

Maybe we should address uncomfortable problem, which is overwhelming amount of Black criminals? Left media do a lot to obfuscate this, like in Brianna Taylor case, who was a drug-dealer, but presented in media like a total innocent or Floyd who has become saint in everything, but name, who was just a generic thug, who would've died anyway from overdose.

If you want to talk about the uncomfortable socio and economic problems which in some cases make black people more likely to turn crime then great but I'm guessing that's not what you meant.

France is a good example of similar problem: where immigrants were given a lot of money and some opportunities, but they refuse to integrate into larger society. I know, it is not black and white case, but at this point, blaming everything on "society", "white people", "racism" and so on is just dumb.

It seems you're conflating immigrants with all people of colour living in the West. Not that immigrants from Asia deserve it either but most of these cases of police overreach happen to actual citizens that are born in the countries in question. They don't have to integrate they are integrated by their birth.

I want to hear what Trump did to ensure he stays in power.
Did he eliminated electoral college? Did he started mail voting, which can be (and most likely will be) easily falsified? Had he a 4 year-long campaign on the biggest media (mostly consisting out of lies) to smear absolutely everyone among his political enemies? Do Twitter and Facebook under his control to the point their censor bad articles about him?

Also, it weren't Republicans burning their own cities, establishing "independent countries" in the cities and being violent against everyone this year.

So, what exactly Trump did to ensure he stays in power, aside from vague threats? And it not like democRATS don't threat violence against Trump-supporters.

Trump and the Republicans would never eliminate the electoral college. It's the sole reason they are currently in power despite losing the popular vote by millions and that wasn't the first it's happened either. The electoral college does give the GOP an unfair advantage over the Democrats but since it also keeps third parties at bay so even the Dems aren't eager to get rid of it.

What Trump has done is had his people look into legality of overturning term limits. He did this literally the day he was sworn in.

He jokes about it about his rallies but he has legit refused to accept the result if he lost or commit to a peaceful transition of power.

He attempts disenfranchise people less likely to vote for him (although that's not a tactic unique to him) also undermines confidence in postal votes at a time when they will be a crucial decider and has intimated to elements his base that they should be ready violence should he lose.

[Sumac]

I'm not sure that mostly peaceful protests that sometimes become riotous is much of problem (or a problem at all) compared decades of continuous murders of black people by the police.
Obigatory:
https://thepostmillennial.com/content/images/size/w600/2020/08/jimenez-fiery-but-mostly-peaceful.jpg


So you're OK with thugs destroying livelihood of random innocent people to protest against supposed injustice?
I don't really see how it can be anything, but counter-productive.

Most of them aren't. I think that's a pretty well established fact at this point.

Of the African Americans that are criminals few of them have committed crimes or resisted arrest to the point that warrants the level of violence against them. We've long accepted that your punishment matches your crime. Someone who is guilty of...say shoplifting shouldn't die in police custody.

All this happens disproportionately to black people. There is something wrong with a system that a black man selling pirated DVDs is shot dead on the spot whereas white guys like Dylan Roof who shoot up a church or school get taken alive. Also when it does happen to white people it almost always results in the officers in question going to jail.
I'd like to see some statistics about this, since according to statistics I saw, there were only about 10 killings of unarmed Blacks by police last year.
I don't think that bias is widespread and also I think that some politician like to hyperbolize the problem to win political scores.
Also, maybe Black people end up being on receiving end of violence more often than white is because they are more often reacting violently than white people?

If you want to talk about the uncomfortable socio and economic problems which in some cases make black people more likely to turn crime then great but I'm guessing that's not what you meant.
So, they have a lot of preferences and money poured into their communities, but somehow they are still can't rise from poverty and still are turning to the life of crime?

You know, at this point I think it's bull. If community can't fix itself for decades upon decades, it's no longer about government or any outside influence. Its about community being, well, crap, too entrenched in its own questionable lifestyle.

It seems you're conflating immigrants with all people of colour living in the West. Not that immigrants from Asia deserve it either but most of these cases of police overreach happen to actual citizens that are born in the countries in question. They don't have to integrate they are integrated by their birth.
Being born in the country, doesn't make you integrated in the society.
Integration means, that you are sharing core values of the country and capable of using its main language.

So someone who is born in France, but don't share their culture and can't talk French, is not integrated in society at all. And integration is crucial to foreign people, if they want to find their place in another country.

If you don't want to integrate, well, don't cry that people don't treat like part of their society.

What Trump has done is had his people look into legality of overturning term limits. He did this literally the day he was sworn in.
"Looked into" did" are pretty different things.

He jokes about it about his rallies but he has legit refused to accept the result if he lost or commit to a peaceful transition of power.

He attempts disenfranchise people less likely to vote for him (although that's not a tactic unique to him) also undermines confidence in postal votes at a time when they will be a crucial decider and has intimated to elements his base that they should be ready violence should he lose.
Its not like dems weren't threatening violence for the last 4 years...

You see, you try to blame Trump, but nothing he's done is excusive for him and GOP.

I am of thinking he is a loudmouth businessman, who will play by the rules when it matters, unless something extraordinary happens.

[Newton Gimmick]

99.9% of the public don't even know Rise was a thing. I doubt we get a black April in the next "major mainstream" thing, but even if we do, Rise will not have been a factor in that decision either way.

[King Kahn]

Obigatory:
https://thepostmillennial.com/content/images/size/w600/2020/08/jimenez-fiery-but-mostly-peaceful.jpg


So you're OK with thugs destroying livelihood of random innocent people to protest against supposed injustice?
I don't really see how it can be anything, but counter-productive.



Yup. Thugs.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/522509-feds-say-far-right-group-coordinated-attack-on-minneapolis-police-precinct

[Cryomancer]

Peoples lives are more important than property. The loss of property / money is all the enemy understands. The choice is clear.

[Leo656]

I'unno man. When I was a kid it was made abundantly clear that stomping one's feet and breaking things was a pretty surefire way to ensure that no matter what point you were trying to make, nobody was ever going to listen to you on account of that's how a petulant child behaves. And that if we want the right kind of attention and for people to takes us seriously we have to be better, not worse.

I mean if people already have a biased suspicion that you're a ne'er-do-well, and you behave in a fashion that firmly reinforces that belief, then you're certainly not winning over any hearts and minds that way. You're certainly getting attention, but you're also making the problem worse.

It really doesn't matter what age or race you are; nobody responds well to a tantrum. That's just the way it is.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The loss of property / money is all the enemy understands.

You terribly underestimate us.

[CyberCubed]

99.9% of the public don't even know Rise was a thing. I doubt we get a black April in the next "major mainstream" thing, but even if we do, Rise will not have been a factor in that decision either way.

But the floodgates are open now. Even if she's not black next time, she could be any other race. What if we get hispanic April next? Or Asian April? Or Native American April? etc.

April going back to "vanilla" might seem boring now to whoever directs the next series.

[Sumac]

Peoples lives are more important than property. The loss of property / money is all the enemy understands. The choice is clear.
Such an infantile view.
Time to educate ignorant supporter of domestic terrorists:

You do understand that rioters destroy stuff which mostly belongs to the small scale businessmen some of them being black?
You do understand that most of them has families they need to feed, credits they need to pay and stuff?
You do understand that loss of their businesses and extensive repairs will mean their quality of life will become lower and some some of them might as well be left without money at all?
You do understand that none of this will endear those people to the plight of "oppressed black minority" and most likely will make them HATE blacks?
You do understand that most of the people, who had suffer at the hands of "peaceful protesters" has nothing to do with racism?
You do understand that most of those people are NOT enemies, (but now they are since they were targeted by lazy parasitic thugs)?

What you advocating is basically killing and robbing random people on the streets for the sake of your idea of "justice". How different it is from random terrorism? The answer: IT IS NOT!!

If those thugs would've been interested in change they'd take their fight against politicians and corporations, but we all know that they are too chicken **** to do that, because, if they try, they will be grinded into dust. All they can do is to fight only against defenseless people and burn and loot stuff, when police is not around.

They are NOT heroes. They are violent thugs, who belong to jail or an inhabitable island.

Yup. Thugs.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/522509-feds-say-far-right-group-coordinated-attack-on-minneapolis-police-precinct
Dime of a dozen.
Those who Burned Looted Maradeured stuff in Portland were not far right.

[Galactus]

Obigatory:
https://thepostmillennial.com/content/images/size/w600/2020/08/jimenez-fiery-but-mostly-peaceful.jpg


So you're OK with thugs destroying livelihood of random innocent people to protest against supposed injustice?
I don't really see how it can be anything, but counter-productive.

I think we've established that the murder of black people by the police is a real injustice not a supposed one.

Protests sometimes do become riotous that's just a sad fact of protests but most of the BLM protests have been peaceful particularly when you have police and counter protesters show up. Do you think that all the Civil Rights marches in the 60s were all peaceful? The voting rights act was signed because of genuine concern that if they didn't give African Americans a vote they'd never die down.

There's also the fact that at least some of the rioting and looting has been done by people showing up to specifically to make trouble and not associated with the BLM movement and at least some of those were provably from right wing thugs trying to make the movement look bad.

I'd like to see some statistics about this, since according to statistics I saw, there were only about 10 killings of unarmed Blacks by police last year.
I don't think that bias is widespread and also I think that some politician like to hyperbolize the problem to win political scores.
Also, maybe Black people end up being on receiving end of violence more often than white is because they are more often reacting violently than white people?

142 Black people have been fatally shot in the the US this year so far. The percentage is much higher than white people and higher still if you include other members of racial and ethnic minorities.This doesn't count black people that have been killed by police by means other than shooting or have been unnecessarily hurt when apprehending them.

Also why are we limiting this to unarmed black people? The case the other day a black man that had a knife on him but was no immediate threat could have easily been tasered rather than shot dead. How many black men have been shot because they legally had a gun that they openly carried which is legal in the US.

So, they have a lot of preferences and money poured into their communities, but somehow they are still can't rise from poverty and still are turning to the life of crime?

You know, at this point I think it's bull. If community can't fix itself for decades upon decades, it's no longer about government or any outside influence. Its about community being, well, crap, too entrenched in its own questionable lifestyle.

But they don't have a lot of preferences and money poured into their communities. That's the point.

There are a lot of impoverished white neighborhoods too but they benefit from two things that black communities don't. Firstly that police will find excuses not to harass you and just a general difference in attitudes. Even in leftist circles there is an attitude that a lot of the problems with impoverished white communities is put down to 'economic anxiety' whereas that same attitude towards the black community isn't reciprocated by the right. Look at how crack addiction that was rife among black inner city people was viewed as a criminal problem vs how the current opioid crisis in white communities is treated with kid gloves.

Being born in the country, doesn't make you integrated in the society.
Integration means, that you are sharing core values of the country and capable of using its main language.

What kind of core values? In the US freedom of religious expression is seen as one of their values but people have issues with Muslim women wearing a veil.

"Looked into" did" are pretty different things.

So what he was curious? He clearly wanted to extend his term limit. He talks about it a lot.

Its not like dems weren't threatening violence for the last 4 years...

I'm going to need to see some receipts on this.

You see, you try to blame Trump, but nothing he's done is excusive for him and GOP.

Democrats don't try and suppress votes or disenfranchise minorities. Usually because more voters generally benefit them more. No democrat has ever refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power...although to be fair neither has any republican before Trump.

I am of thinking he is a loudmouth businessman, who will play by the rules when it matters, unless something extraordinary happens.

He hasn't fully divested from his businesses in violation of the constitution. He has impeded investigations of his campaigns collusion with a foreign power. I wouldn't call that playing by the rules.

[King Kahn]

But the floodgates are open now. Even if she's not black next time, she could be any other race. What if we get hispanic April next? Or Asian April? Or Native American April? etc.

April going back to "vanilla" might seem boring now to whoever directs the next series.

ok, make her Asian, or Hispanic, or Native American.... what's it matter? Her race has literally nothing to do with her character?

[ssjup81]

Such an infantile view.
Time to educate ignorant supporter of domestic terrorists:

You do understand that rioters destroy stuff which mostly belongs to the small scale businessmen some of them being black?
You do understand that most of them has families they need to feed, credits they need to pay and stuff?
You do understand that loss of their businesses and extensive repairs will mean their quality of life will become lower and some some of them might as well be left without money at all?
You do understand that none of this will endear those people to the plight of "oppressed black minority" and most likely will make them HATE blacks?
You do understand that most of the people, who had suffer at the hands of "peaceful protesters" has nothing to do with racism?
You do understand that most of those people are NOT enemies, (but now they are since they were targeted by lazy parasitic thugs)?

What you advocating is basically killing and robbing random people on the streets for the sake of your idea of "justice". How different it is from random terrorism? The answer: IT IS NOT!!

If those thugs would've been interested in change they'd take their fight against politicians and corporations, but we all know that they are too chicken **** to do that, because, if they try, they will be grinded into dust. All they can do is to fight only against defenseless people and burn and loot stuff, when police is not around.

They are NOT heroes. They are violent thugs, who belong to jail or an inhabitable island.


Dime of a dozen.
Those who Burned Looted Maradeured stuff in Portland were not far right.Just thought I'd add in my two cents before this thread gets inevitably locked at the rate you guys are going...

I'm just going to get straight to the point. No sensible person condones or supports looting or rioting. The majority of protests are peaceful, but the ones that garner attention are the ones where people aren't being peaceful and doing those things. People like you need to understand that there are two groups of people here...a group that adheres to the rules, for the most part, and does things peacefully and then the other group that causes damage and also in those groups could be opportunists. We haven't had a lot of the rioting and stuff where I am, but when it did happen, there were actual White Supremacist members as part of it purposely causing trouble to make the protesters look bad, so that's always a possibility too.

It's like the Civil Rights Movement. We have Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. King preached and stuck to keeping the peace and protesting peacefully no matter how tough things would get. Malcolm X, on the other hand, had no problem with violence to get his point across. Both had the same goal in mind, just different ways of reaching it. Most people would say that King's way was way better and many probably did not condone the way of Malcolm X.

You can't condemn a whole group of people for the actions of others. You can support the cause and not the action. I support the cause and those who protest peacefully, I do not support or condone the actions of those who don't.

[Jester]

Ok, back to April, please.

[CyberCubed]

ok, make her Asian, or Hispanic, or Native American.... what's it matter? Her race has literally nothing to do with her character?

I like white bread.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I'm beginning to hate the fact that I created this thread.

It's like this was created to bait Cube.

[Cryomancer]

https://i.imgur.com/TPlwOvh.png

[Sumac]

The picture above is a peak representation of why no-one sensible should listen to SJWs.
From badly done meme or parody of thereof, to the absurdly idiotic slogan.

[neatoman]

It's like this was created to bait Cube.

Well I didn't start this thread thinking "Boy this will sure last six years and end up having people talk about BLM, the civil rights movement and white supremacy!". I thought people would discuss the fact that April was black in that one comic book coloration and why there are people who claim something like that never happened, despite the fact that it obviously did. I didn't know she end up being black in a cartoon, thereby reviving the thread. And certainly did not expect there would be riots and anti-police sentiment in the US, spurred on by seemingly racially motivated police brutality in an election year, where a tactless billionare president would face off against Obama's dementia riddled old toadie during a pandemic.

I seriously hope the mods lock this shitshow...

[CyberCubed]

This thread being from 2014 really puts into perspective how much the world changed in only 6 short years.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I have nothing to contribute.

But I got in before the thread lock, so fvck you. :trazz:

[Last Ronin]

What the hell did I just read?

[Leo656]

Headline: "New Guy Second-Guesses His Decision To Join Technodrome Forums, Rethinks ALL Life Decisions That Led Him Here. Film At 11."

Welcome aboard, Champ. Better grab a helmet.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I really like how the thread went from people arguing about character race and ethnicity, to arguing about black people and protests.

Well done, Technodrome! Shall we discuss abortion, Donald Trump, and immigration while we're at it?

But hey, still not locked. Fvck yeah, fvckers.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Boy howdy, this thread sure has gone places. Can we just burn it down already? I think we're long past the point of meaningful discourse.