Black April

[Leo656]

Well done, Technodrome! Shall we discuss abortion, Donald Trump, and immigration while we're at it?


Those can be touchy subjects for some folks. Take abortion, f'rinstance. Brings up some dark memories for me. In fact, my very earliest memory is actually that of being born. I wriggled free of the doctor's grasp, grabbed a straightened-out coat hanger and started jabbing my Mom in the face with it while taunting "How d'YOU f***in' like it, huh? HUH?!?!"

........Hi, my name is Leo656 and I make very, very dark jokes. :tgrin:

[Last Ronin]

Pretty dark stuff. But appropriate for this thread, a lil dark humor can go a long way. Maybe I could tell the story about how I missioned Impossibled it in the bathroom stall from my moms senior prom..... but you don't want to be bored by that story.
The last few pages are far more entertaining.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Pretty dark stuff. But appropriate for this thread, a lil dark humor can go a long way. Maybe I could tell the story about how I missioned Impossibled it in the bathroom stall from my moms senior prom..... but you don't want to be bored by that story.
The last few pages are far more entertaining.

:tlol: :tlol: :tlol: :tlol:

You're all right, you. Welcome to the madhouse. Cookies and whiskey are at elevenses. :tgrin:

[CyberCubed]

#NotMyApril

[Last Ronin]

#NotMyApril


She's everyone's for the right price.... (buying the comic).

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

She's everyone's for the right price

Don't talk that way about her! Her boyfriend has some serious anger issues. Even killed a kid once.

[Avenger]

It was probably suggested at some point in this thread, but instead of making April black (and having her back to white in the next incarnation) why not create a brand new interesting black character and give it some importance? One that will integrate the TMNT universe/folklore and stay for good.

Yes, she was created in a time of white supremacy (as many comics characters) and it's true that skin's color doesn't change the core of the character, but I feel it's more rewarding having a new black character becoming a fan favorite, instead of swapping color an existing one. It feels less "cheap marketing trick".

[CyberCubed]

White was just the standard back then especially in the 80's. Whenever there was a black character it was rare or they were treated as comic relief because Eddie Murphy was in his prime back then and they were trying to copy the "funny black man" routine.

Usually Asians were always based on Bruce Lee, Jack Chan, or other kung fu masters or ninja's.

[Last Ronin]

It was probably suggested at some point in this thread, but instead of making April black (and having her back to white in the next incarnation) why not create a brand new interesting black character and give it some importance? One that will integrate the TMNT universe/folklore and stay for good.

Yes, she was created in a time of white supremacy (as many comics characters) and it's true that skin's color doesn't change the core of the character, but I feel it's more rewarding having a new black character becoming a fan favorite, instead of swapping color an existing one. It feels less "cheap marketing trick".

Yes, all of this. Instead of cheap colour swap how about creating a black characterfrom scratch and give them meaning, I agree. Not that I care if April is colour swapped it just makes it seem like a cheap way to garner applause from the people.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yes, all of this. Instead of cheap colour swap how about creating a black characterfrom scratch and give them meaning, I agree. Not that I care if April is colour swapped it just makes it seem like a cheap way to garner applause from the people.

Angel Brooklyn or whatever her last name is from IDW (based on the kid in 4Kids) was great. Liked her even better BEFORE she became Nobody.

[CyberCubed]

Isn't Angel supposed to be hispanic? So she's not really black. And not like Mile Morales from Spiderman who is mixed black/latino.

[PizzaPower1985]

Yes, me again! Back after all this time...

If you're going to disparage protestors as THUGS... please don't use it as an excuse to defend cops. Just please! Don't Defend Cops! I find it interesting that we have again resurrected the BLACK APRIL discussion and now we're attacking the BLM again and somehow relating protests over DEPUTISED MURDER to April's skin color, but okay!

Welcome to the new kid... sent you a Friendly Request!

ALSO: IT BEARS REPEATING: APRIL O'NEIL WAS NOT AND IS NOT BLACK... despite what the baby's cartoon is trying to tell you!

[Last Ronin]

Thanks dude, a kind welcome.

Accepted

:)

[Powder]

Don't Defend Cops!

Cops are people like anyone else, capable of both good & evil. The majority of them don't pursue their career on the idea that it's a license to kill.

Hope you never find yourself in a position to need one.

[Jester]

So....April O'neil...

[Last Ronin]

So....April O'neil...

Yeah, let's talk about her smokin rack.

I mean all these flavors and people choose to be political.

[PizzaPower1985]

So....April O'neil...

Laird has already said that she was never specified as any race but that IN HIS MIND she was a young-ish white woman in her mid 20's. Granted, that is the Mirage version. How old was the 87 toon April supposed to be?

[Leo656]

She said 27 in one episode, I think.

[Last Ronin]

Laird has already said that she was never specified as any race but that IN HIS MIND she was a young-ish white woman in her mid 20's. Granted, that is the Mirage version. How old was the 87 toon April supposed to be?

Well in the 80's a single woman with no kids was at least in her late 20's

April O'Neil stated she's 28 years old, but according to the action figure of her says she's 25 years old and her 1987 video games incarnation says she's 27 years old. In the Leatherhead episode she said she was 28.

[PizzaPower1985]

^^^ that seems right... That's why it always made sense to me that in the best incarnations she (and JONES) would be about 10 years older than our little green pals!

I can't seem to find it now, but if you search the TMNT Entity blog about "Black April" you can find the Laird quote!

[oldmanwinters]

So....April O'neil...

I don't think it's a proven fact that April's middle name is Harriet in the classic toon.

Granted, Michelangelo says it in a throw-away line gag, but April never even dignifies it with a comment. Are we to assume her silence means consent? I don't think we have that warrant.

Furthermore, in spite of the fact that various TMNT fan-wikis and websites type the character's full legal name as "April Harriet O'Neil," what warrant to do we have to assume it's spelling with two Rs and a single T? That ain't the way the world's most famous TV Harriette (https://familymatters.fandom.com/wiki/Harriette_Winslow) spelled her name! So why should the traditional spelling be set in stone for the way April might spell her middle name, presuming it even is her middle name. Granted, it would have been the most familiar spelling to TV audiences of the 1950s-60s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Ozzie_and_Harriet), a culture which informed much of the creativity of the TMNT writers... But still, why is the fandom so sure about it to jump to conclusions to presume information beyond the show's official Bible and style guides give us warrant?

Shouldn't we have learned caution due to the fact that fans were so easily duped into believing Irma's official last name was Langenstein (https://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=58872) based upon some early 21st century IMDb entry?

I say stop the hubris! Let April O'Neil have whatever middle name she wants to have... or no middle name at all. Don't saddle her with the baggage of being April H. O'Neil.

[PizzaPower1985]

Since this is an April speculation thread, do we know her bra size OR is it just too late and am I acting tired again? Either way, we can't deny that jumpsuit can we?

[Leo656]

Big enough to motorboat, that's all I know, boss.

[Last Ronin]

Part them waves like moses

And walk on in.

Too much?

[Leo656]

Not enough, I'd say. :tgrin:

[Sumac]

Its funny how FW April was both sexy and confident, something that would trigger some ugly snowflakes today. Even though her jumpsuit was kind of ridiculous (what reporter wears jumpsuit or any special uniform for the job?).
I wonder, if creators of new TMNT show will have balls to make new April (white or black) at least half as sexy?

Cops are people like anyone else, capable of both good & evil. The majority of them don't pursue their career on the idea that it's a license to kill.

Hope you never find yourself in a position to need one.
Agreed 100%.

[Cryomancer]

Would it rustle your worldview if a "ugly snowflake" such as myself is also all for sexy ladies in animation (and in reality!)? Sexy people are real too, no reason they shouldn't get representation. In fact, I dare say she could both sexy AND black at the same time whoaaaaa

I will also agree that I hope myself and others never "need" a cop.

[Sumac]

Would it rustle your worldview if a "ugly snowflake" such as myself is also all for sexy ladies in animation (and in reality!)? Sexy people are real too, no reason they shouldn't get representation. In fact, I dare say she could both sexy AND black at the same time whoaaaaa

I will also agree that I hope myself and others never "need" a cop.
Aren't you a confrontational type, mate? LOL. :lol:

If you are "ugly snowflake" who likes sexy characters, its OK. It won't be OK, if you were not.

[lonewarrior20]

The way this threads gone I wonder what you guys think of the ultimate marvel universe compared to the regular marvel universe. Cause that's all this is, an alternate universe where things are different.

[PizzaPower1985]

The way this threads gone I wonder what you guys think of the ultimate marvel universe compared to the regular marvel universe. Cause that's all this is, an alternate universe where things are different.

Ultimate Marvel is for people who cant appreciate mid to late 20th century (Silver Age, Bronze Age) comic books. Ultimate Marvel is the MTV version, the "simple cliff-notes" version of Marvel for people who cant be bothered to actually like "REAL" comic books.

Hey, do you remember Amazing Spider-man #200? Ultimate Marvel fans DON'T! They could care less that it was the BIG anniversary issue where THE BURGLAR (that guy who killed Uncle Ben) returns to wreak havoc on Parker's life!

Ask Ultimate fans who their top 10 fav. Marvel characters are and they'll cheat and start listing the movie characters! Now, some fans can and DO like both versions, but that's not who Ultimate Marvel was designed for... it was made for newbs, not the guy who was reading Batman in 1989 when that movie came out.

PS... regarding the police, some of you in here have an unhealthy respect for authority! If you guys can't see that police brutality is more common than steak in a butcher's shop, your life has been too privileged and easy and I cannot help you.

[Sumac]

Ultimate Marvel is for people who cant appreciate mid to late 20th century (Silver Age, Bronze Age) comic books. Ultimate Marvel is the MTV version, the "simple cliff-notes" version of Marvel for people who cant be bothered to actually like "REAL" comic books.

Hey, do you remember Amazing Spider-man #200? Ultimate Marvel fans DON'T! They could care less that it was the BIG anniversary issue where THE BURGLAR (that guy who killed Uncle Ben) returns to wreak havoc on Parker's life!

Ask Ultimate fans who their top 10 fav. Marvel characters are and they'll cheat and start listing the movie characters! Now, some fans can and DO like both versions, but that's not who Ultimate Marvel was designed for... it was made for newbs, not the guy who was reading Batman in 1989 when that movie came out.
Ultimate universe was pretty mediocre, from what I understood. It had several gems, like Spider-Man, but otherwise it was not all that hot. And now it is irrelevant all together, thanks to all those merging stuff.

In general, I am not fun of stuff like this - either make a different universe altogether or don't make it copycat, but slightly different and "look, we make our old characters black and gay!! Aren't we cool?"

PS... regarding the police, some of you in here have an unhealthy respect for authority! If you guys can't see that police brutality is more common than steak in a butcher's shop, your life has been too privileged and easy and I cannot help you.
Saying that most cops are not racist monsters, just waiting to kill someone is not an "unhealthy respect". It is a mature adult approach, something, people mentioning nebulous "privileges" are yet to learn.

[Last Ronin]

Damn it man, weren't we talking about April's Tig ol Bitties?

Also, Cops fail No Nut November everytime, because they can't help themselves from f***ing everything they see.
But I still salute them, they can also save my ass.

[PizzaPower1985]

If '87 April came to my house, I'd have to just invite her to bed and be done with it... It's not like I'm married or anything... Oh wait!

[CyberCubed]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/061/664/1275937249093s.jpg

It's amazing how much mileage this picture gets on this forum.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's amazing how much mileage this picture gets on this forum.

And the usage is 100% you.

[oldmanwinters]

And the usage is 100% you.

Yeah... pretty sure I've never seen anyone else post it here by Cubed.

[CyberCubed]

I'm pretty sure I've seen two other people post it before. Don't want to say names but it's in older threads.

[Coola Yagami]

Its funny how FW April was both sexy and confident, something that would trigger some ugly snowflakes today. Even though her jumpsuit was kind of ridiculous (what reporter wears jumpsuit or any special uniform for the job?).
I wonder, if creators of new TMNT show will have balls to make new April (white or black) at least half as sexy?


Agreed 100%.

Even back in the 80's/90's where we had the pretty but dumb stereotype, April broke the mold. She was a classic independent woman without the girl power crap, she was kinda tomboyish in her own right, she was clever and sassy and the voice of reason at times. And she was also hot AF and possibly one of the most f*ckable animated women in all animated history.

April is love, April is life.

[CyberCubed]

Problem is 80's April still got kidnapped in almost every episode or set into danger where she needed the Turtles to rescue her in most eps besides a few. April being treated as a damsel in distress would not sit well with modern audiences. That's why so many later April's know how to fight which 80's April did not.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Even if 80's April wasn't a fighter (which she absolutely didn't need to be in order be an endearing character) , she did help out in quite a few ways:

Driving the turtle van/Channel Six News Van, being the turtles' eyes and ears for the outside world and even saving them outright every now and then.

[oldmanwinters]

Problem is 80's April still got kidnapped in almost every episode or set into danger where she needed the Turtles to rescue her in most eps besides a few. April being treated as a damsel in distress would not sit well with modern audiences. That's why so many later April's know how to fight which 80's April did not.

That sort of thing happened to every character in the show at some point. April just got into the most trouble because she took the most risks.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I mean on some level plot needs to happen. And "get at the heroes by going after the ones they care about" is a plotline as old as time.

I think it's only really a problem if ALL they do is play the damsel and never really contribute anything of substance otherwise. In general, things have gotten a lot better over the years across the board with April and characters like her.

Although there's another problem when a writer wants to take a character like April (or Lois Lane, or whomever), and to "prove" that they're not helpless they go too far the other way. Then you've got stuff like April being a ninja who can beat Karai in a fight, or she's part-alien and has special mind powers, or any number of other dumb things. Which I honestly find even worse than the "damsel in distress" trope because it's so unbelievable. It's believable that a "normal person" like April who gets caught up in the Turtles' world would be overcome on occasion by their enemies and used as a way to hurt them. It's far less believable that said "normal person" can train for a few weeks, pick up a sword and suddenly start wrecking shop on people who've trained their whole lives, for example, just because the writer doesn't wanna show her getting tied up for the 50th time.

It's a delicate balancing act, but I dare say they've gotten better at these things in comics and fiction over time.

[oldmanwinters]

Although there's another problem when a writer wants to take a character like April (or Lois Lane, or whomever), and to "prove" that they're not helpless they go too far the other way. Then you've got stuff like April being a ninja who can beat Karai in a fight, or she's part-alien and has special mind powers, or any number of other dumb things. Which I honestly find even worse than the "damsel in distress" trope because it's so unbelievable. It's believable that a "normal person" like April who gets caught up in the Turtles' world would be overcome on occasion by their enemies and used as a way to hurt them. It's far less believable that said "normal person" can train for a few weeks, pick up a sword and suddenly start wrecking shop on people who've trained their whole lives, for example, just because the writer doesn't wanna show her getting tied up for the 50th time.

So true. So true.

[Coola Yagami]

I mean, April put herself at risk the most times, but yeah, bad guys always go after the 'normal people' in the heroes' lives. At times Splinter was targeted cause he was elderly. At time kids that hang out with the Turtles were targeted, like Zach and his brother. At times one turtle on their own would be targeted, which sadly was almost always Mikey, who I believe should be able to take on Bebop and Rocksteady on his own, but whatever.


April is a reporter and she's out to get the scoop no matter what. She kinda/sorta puts herself into these situations. It's actually not too often Shredder sends his goons after her directly. I guess we needed more examples where April would get close enough to get the scoop and escape to tell the turtles, but without getting captured.

Like I understand everyone is all 'woman hear me roar' nowadays, but if common goons can't handle a woman that maybe took one self-defense class in her life, the it's time to hire new goons. If April can ninja kick her way out of trouble... who needs the turtles?

Like sometimes heroes need that person the bad guys can target, it happens. Not everyone can be a bad-ass. If so, then what's going to happen is we risk losing April altogether and replacing her with some guy instead for the bad guys to target just for the sake of 'well we can't portray women as weak no matter what'.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If Fred Wolf April had been able to use that Glock the Playmates action figure came with, she'd been a whole 'nutha level of empowered female character.

Doubletap, motherfvckers. Kiss your mutant henchmen goodbye.

[Leo656]

Especially in 1980s NYC. She could unload on Bebop and Rocksteady in broad daylight and nobody'd bat an eye. :lol:

[Last Ronin]

April is the Princess Peach to the Turtles.

Change my mind

(It is unchangeable like snow in the heat)

[Leo656]

Princess Peach has earned her keep in some of the Paper Mario games, at least.

[Coola Yagami]

Princess Peach has earned her keep in some of the Paper Mario games, at least.

April earned her keep via body-hugging jumpsuit, and having the nice body to properly fill it out.

[Last Ronin]

Who knew snow melted when applied with heat.

O.k guess my opinion has changed.

Congrats.

[neatoman]

It's not like Nintendo is totally against giving Peach some sex appeal.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/45/16/dc/4516dc042fb406dc9d934d828c125524.gif
1xEGlEi21Hg

[ssjup81]

Problem is 80's April still got kidnapped in almost every episode or set into danger where she needed the Turtles to rescue her in most eps besides a few. April being treated as a damsel in distress would not sit well with modern audiences. That's why so many later April's know how to fight which 80's April did not.Here's the difference, though...April usually ended up in situation where she was overpowered because she was doing her job, not because she was a wimpy woman that always needed help from the men. She wasn't like Princess Peach who allows herself to get caught and do pretty much nothing (with the exception of games like Super Mario RPG, Super Mario Bros 2, that goofy game where Peach was on a quest to get her implied vibrator back... :lol: ). April would try to fight back most times.

This was something I liked about April in the OT show because she was spunky, sassy, strong-willed, and serious about her job as an investigative journalist. I'm not going to lie, I became interested in journalism because of her and took it in high school. I started out in the club my first two years and joined the class my last two. I wanted to major in journalism after high school....but my folks wouldn't go for it. ^^;

[PizzaPower1985]

It's not like Nintendo is totally against giving Peach some sex appeal.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/45/16/dc/4516dc042fb406dc9d934d828c125524.gif
1xEGlEi21Hg

It's good to know that a multinational corp. like NINTENDO has the same ideas about sex appeal as I do... sparkly dresses and big hair/dressed-to-the-nines certainly is my idea of a good time with the opposite sex.

[Last Ronin]

It's good to know that a multinational corp. like NINTENDO has the same ideas about sex appeal as I do... sparkly dresses and big hair/dressed-to-the-nines certainly is my idea of a good time with the opposite sex.

They Jessica Rabbit her. That dress is so familiar and Toad is Bob Hoskins, mindblown.

[Powder]

PS... regarding the police, some of you in here have an unhealthy respect for authority! If you guys can't see that police brutality is more common than steak in a butcher's shop, your life has been too privileged and easy and I cannot help you.

Sorry we can't all be fingerless glove wearing rebels like you. Nothing more punk rock than spewing the same hypocritical propaganda & buzzwords that Nike does, right, guys? Fight the power, while you align with major corporations & political mouthpieces, to earn social credit on the internet. :roll: The "unhealthy respect" I have, isn't for authority, it's for my fellow human beings. Fathers, sons, brothers, who spend the majority of their time being spat upon, for things a minority in their group have done. That's prejudice, point blank.

Don't presume to know me or anyone else whose opinion you disagree with. Your notions of privilege can bite it. Contrary to the agenda you fell for, people who come from struggle can still see eye to eye with one another. To apply humanity to all peoples is hardly the mark of privilege, it's just a common courtesy for your peers. Only once you hit rock bottom can you truly appreciate what it means to be a human being, or an American, or free, because it's all any of us can really lay claim to at the end of the day. When you have nothing to lose, that's when you most find yourself under the microscope of the law, & I speak from experience that their eye isn't always unkind. Police officers know better than anyone, from what they see on a daily basis, how hard it is for some of us to keep it together. They see the ugliness of mankind that most of you couldn't fathom, & it's dealt with by them so that you don't have to. Many of the issues our people face are born of hardship, & not all cops are unsympathetic to that, I assure you.

If you've ever actually been out in the streets getting your sneakers dirty, you know most cops in the US are pretty chill. My friends & I, a very diverse, extremely sketchy looking, multi-ethnic group, got into a LOT of sh*t back in the day, in low income communities of New York, I might add, & 9/10 times the cops would give us a break. Whether it be drugs, vandalism, violence, traffic issues, we were almost always treated respectfully, & reciprocated that, not out of fear, but appreciation for their understanding & civil conduct in the face of punishable crime. If you're cool, they're cool, generally speaking. It's actually incredibly easy to, you know, not be a dick or pull a knife on someone doing their job. If you draw on someone authorized to kill those who threaten their life, you're the ass, not them.

Cops, among other, hard-working men & women who go without thanks, were who rushed to the scene when our towers came down. They gave their lives so others could live on. You have no idea what kind of BS police officers put up with on a daily basis to keep their communities safe, relatively speaking, all the while being hated & admonished. I'd love to watch all of you who wish to see them disassembled, try to make it six months in a world without cops. A lot of people are animals, & they maim/kill each other each & every day over the most petty, simple things. Hell, you don't even need de-funding. Go to the area of your town most known for crime, & walk around alone at night. I'd tell you to report back, but you wouldn't be able to. That'd be your life 24/7, hope you enjoy it.

Lumping all cops into a pile with their power-abusing outliers isn't much different than being racist against an entire ethnic group for whatever stereotypical negative is associated with them.

[Coola Yagami]

So um.... that there 80's April sure had a nice ass, didn't she?

[Leo656]

Other than "I concur", I really, really won't be able to add to or top that, Powder.

So just put my name in the "I'd totally smash Peach" club. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

Other than "I concur", I really, really won't be able to add to or top that, Powder.

So just put my name in the "I'd totally smash Peach" club. :lol:

More April for me then.

[Last Ronin]

April O'Neal should have had a "spread" in Playboy, literally.


Yellow jumpsuit is my safe word.

[Coola Yagami]

April O'Neal should have had a "spread" in Playboy, literally.


Yellow jumpsuit is my safe word.

Mine is 'what a story!'. When I hear her say that, I know to ease up a bit on her.

Irma's safeword is usually 'ow'.

[oldmanwinters]

You know, I think this Forum just needs an "I'm bored, let's talk about April O'Neil" catch-all thread.

[Coola Yagami]

You know, I think this Forum just needs an "I'm bored, let's talk about April O'Neil" catch-all thread.

We.... we don't have one of those???

[Leo656]

More April for me then.

I didn't say it was one or the other, sailor.

It's like Tommy Dreamer always said when in the same situation...
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/68798650.jpg
((INCIDENTALLY, I'll be working with Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman, and WWE Hall Of Famer Tony Atlas, THIS SATURDAY at SWF Storm Surge in Holmdel, NJ!!! :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:))

But yeah, it's like that.

[CyberCubed]

My friends & I, a very diverse, extremely sketchy looking, multi-ethnic group, got into a LOT of sh*t back in the day, in low income communities of New York, I might add, & 9/10 times the cops would give us a break. Whether it be drugs, vandalism, violence, traffic issues, we were almost always treated respectfully, & reciprocated that, not out of fear, but appreciation for their understanding & civil conduct in the face of punishable crime.

Man, Powder, you're like the dromes very own O.G. Gangsta. :tlol:

You know all about that stuff because you lived that life, haven't you, Powder? In da hood with the homies and the gangster rappers and stuff like that? I always found it fascinating that we have people who come up from that lifestyle.

Thugs 4 LYFE! YOLO!

[Sumac]

Golden words, Powder!
Keep it going, man! Less hate, more love!

Also, 80s April is sexy. She and a certain mouse inventor (I am not part of her cult, I swear) were the reasons I am partial to women in tight jumpsuits.

[ssjup81]

I didn't say it was one or the other, sailor.

It's like Tommy Dreamer always said when in the same situation...
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/68798650.jpg
((INCIDENTALLY, I'll be working with Tommy Dreamer, The Sandman, and WWE Hall Of Famer Tony Atlas, THIS SATURDAY at SWF Storm Surge in Holmdel, NJ!!! :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:))

But yeah, it's like that.Really?! You'll get to hang with all of them soon?! Totally beyond awesome!

[Leo656]

That's the plan unless it rains. I will be teaming with Atlas and others as part of an 8-man tag. So... yeah, I really hope it doesn't rain.

[CyberCubed]

I think a good black April would be one written without stereotypes. Rise' April was like every bad stereotype of a young black girl all rolled up into one character. It's as if the writers thought, "this is how black teens act" and made it a character.

A "good" black April would be one that's written indistinguishable from a white April where you wouldn't notice any difference about her personality or looks other than skin color. Sure you can throw in a few "black-isms," like "dawg," "thang" and "homie" but for the most part she would be written the same as a white April.

[Iroh]

I would love to see a Black April. I was only opposed to seeing a Black Stockman due to the fact that I hate Tyler Perry. :tlol: They didn't want to cast April as a black woman at the time because toys needed to be sold. In history, everything has always been whitewashed. I have no need to explain on that because THAT is another thread on its own. Eastman loves the sistahs but introducing anything African American to racist Hollywood is a HUGE "Nah!" I bet Eastman was even ridiculed for having the idea for having April as a beautiful black woman. I would love to see Diamond Jackson as April O'Neill. YASSSSS!

[CyberCubed]

April has been black now in two incarnations in a row with Rise of the TMNT and the new upcoming CG Seth Rogen movie. Unlike the IDW comics or 2012 cartoon which predated this, now it seems like April will be remaining as black permanently going forward.

I suspect now white April will be seen as "racist" since now they "can't" go back to her original race because now it will look like "black April wasn't received well" and no way is a big company like Paramount going to let people have those views.

There is also the saying, "Once you go black you never go back" so that gives me pause as well. They can't ever "go back" now in the same manner Nick Fury is permanently black due to Samuel L. Jackson.

[Zulithe]

She was PoC twice in a row, so I think it's clear what they want for the character going forward. If they ever make her a white redhead cis female again in any new iterations it's probably a ways off.

I think they pushed things too far with the overly sexualized Megan Fox April, and we are now seeing the repercussions of that decision, with subsequent creative teams pushing things in the OPPOSITE direction. Instead of a supermodel April we get frumpy body-atypical (shorter, fatter, etc.) April.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Looks like it. Another redhead character swapped away. Won’t be the last I assure you.

People keep saying, “Well, April was originally black anyway.” I cannot stress this enough with you guys. No. She. Wasn’t. If anything, she should be Asian instead of black, since that’s what Peter Laird originally conceived her as.

Anyway, a lot of fans will call out this raceswapping b.s. and of course will be called “racists” by Rogen and the wokies. “Oh, so you don’t like diversity?” No, we just don’t condone blackfaces. Give the black fans something original and good and not just sloppy seconds.

[oldmanwinters]

She was PoC twice in a row. I'll be honest, if they ever make her a white redhead cis female again in any new iterations i'll be surprised.

Nick seemed perfectly happy to feature Classic Toon April in three consecutive video games.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Good ol’ Eric calling out the b.s. as usual:

https://twitter.com/EricDJuly/status/1632780089095077889?cxt=HHwWgoC-7eK15qgtAAAA

GI13uvmVo3o

[Mondo_Gecko]

April has been black now in two incarnations in a row with Rise of the TMNT and the new upcoming CG Seth Rogen movie. Unlike the IDW comics or 2012 cartoon which predated this, now it seems like April will be remaining as black permanently going forward.

I suspect now white April will be seen as "racist" since now they "can't" go back to her original race because now it will look like "black April wasn't received well" and no way is a big company like Paramount going to let people have those views.

There is also the saying, "Once you go black you never go back" so that gives me pause as well. They can't ever "go back" now in the same manner Nick Fury is permanently black due to Samuel L. Jackson.

You know CyberCubed, I do not understand your thinking and outrage at things. First the nostrils in the Michael Bay films and now April being black

Look, I grew up with the Fred Wolf cartoon, the Turtles franchise means everything to me but there is no part of April as a character that needs to be a white redhead, as long as they keep her personality and traits, I'll deal with it.

Now, for example if Shredder was re imagined as a white guy, yeah, you're fundamentally changing him and where he came from.

There's never been a part where like April being white and redheaded is part of her identity.

Of course, I'd prefer it, and would love if they made a brand new character who happened to be black.

But honestly, there's so many grander and larger issues in our world for me to be bothered by this.

I'm more anxious about it actually being a good movie and adding something then milking the brand until it's destroyed.

[IMJ]

Now, for example if Shredder was re imagined as a white guy, yeah, you're fundamentally changing him and where he came from.

There's never been a part where like April being white and redheaded is part of her identity.

But see - this is actually an example of your own racism, dude. The easiest correlation is that Shredder is a Japanese guy and that is "identity" yet April being white and redheaded American does not equal "identity" simply because you don't see it or grasp it.

I would say that April's presentation and characterization in Fred Wolf was also informed by her appearance and ethnic background - for better or worse.

But the world we live in with the woe-is-me black community is that everyone has an "identity" except for white people who can just be "swapped out for diversity".

"White" is a color too - not a non-existent, empty attribute of a blank person.
"Red Hair" is an ethnic trait - not some kind of bland "white person thing".

Your comment is actually exactly indicative of the real racism, 99% conveyed by the perspective of blacks and how they view and manipulate the world. "Shredder as a Japanese man is an identity but April as a white redhead is not and therefore can be changed".

I already know what you'll say - you'll argue that Shredder is Japanese and a martial artist from Japan and therefore his identity and nationality are tied together. But you won't see that the exact same thing is true for April and how she is presented whether or not she has an "inextricable and cliche racist skill" such as "ninjutsu" attached to her.

I think this just shows the surface judgements people make based on their own racism. The whole thing is disingenuous manipulation. F' race swaps, don't give 'em any money. The people pushing this nonsense are the racists and they don't even realize it. They live in a world where white people and white attributes are some kind of blank "x-factor" that should has no culture and no background. That's offensive.

[Autbot_Benz]

Cubed Bitching about April being Black is the new Nostrilgate like when the PD movies came out.:roll:

[TurtleManiac]

First Burne Thompson was race AND gender swapped, and now April is race swapped, and Leatherhead is gender swapped :lol:

Who’s next?

[beardcore84]

But see - this is actually an example of your own racism, dude. The easiest correlation is that Shredder is a Japanese guy and that is "identity" yet April being white and redheaded American does not equal "identity" simply because you don't see it or grasp it.

I would say that April's presentation and characterization in Fred Wolf was also informed by her appearance and ethnic background - for better or worse.

But the world we live in with the woe-is-me black community is that everyone has an "identity" except for white people who can just be "swapped out for diversity".

"White" is a color too - not a non-existent, empty attribute of a blank person.
"Red Hair" is an ethnic trait - not some kind of bland "white person thing".

Your comment is actually exactly indicative of the real racism, 99% conveyed by the perspective of blacks and how they view and manipulate the world. "Shredder as a Japanese man is an identity but April as a white redhead is not and therefore can be changed".

I already know what you'll say - you'll argue that Shredder is Japanese and a martial artist from Japan and therefore his identity and nationality are tied together. But you won't see that the exact same thing is true for April and how she is presented whether or not she has an "inextricable and cliche racist skill" such as "ninjutsu" attached to her.

I think this just shows the surface judgements people make based on their own racism. The whole thing is disingenuous manipulation. F' race swaps, don't give 'em any money. The people pushing this nonsense are the racists and they don't even realize it. They live in a world where white people and white attributes are some kind of blank "x-factor" that should has no culture and no background. That's offensive.

You have zero clue how the real world works. ****ing idiotic.

[Sumac]

There's never been a part where like April being white and redheaded is part of her identity.
That's not how it works - everything about character is part of their identity. It doesn't matter, if said characteristics has bearing on the plot o r not.

Also, your reasoning is dumb and can justify whatever dumb **** - like making Splinter a kangaroo or a hamster. Why not? Most adaptation he sits in his lair, so why can't he be disabled bisexual non-trilinear lemur? It doesn't change anything (except creates new character), but who the **** cares about integrity of the characters this day?
Certainly not people like you.

Characters identities do matter as they were envisioned by their creators.
You want your "diversity"? Create a new character. Swapping old ones is just lazy and creatively bankrupt.

You have zero clue how the real world works. ****ing idiotic.
But he is right.
Unless you one of the "good ones" who thinks that all Asians know martial arts and how to cook sushi, for example.

[Coola Yagami]

I kinda feel that for whatever reason the woke wackos felt there NEEDS to be a black April and since they had one in a cartoon show nobody really watched, they should try again in a more mainstream movie.

Ironically, now they shielded themselves because they can now point at Rise and act like 'what's the big deal? this isn't the first time she was black'.

[Last Ronin]

I'm with CyberCubed on this one. We probably won't see a white red haired April again in movies. She gotta be black from now on because wokeness has gotten too big to be stopped. Race swapping white characters is the new trendy thing to do to show representation and give POC second hand characters, because coming up with new ones in established works is hard.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Also, your reasoning is dumb and can justify whatever dumb **** - like making Splinter a kangaroo or a hamster.

:lol::lol::lol:

“Crikey! That’s not a knife!”
- Master Kangaroo

[neatoman]

I'm more concerned about her weight, given what we see of the Turtles in the trailer, a scene like this would seem weirdly fitting in this movie:
e1CjruVGMtI

[IndigoErth]

Doubt it and it's only twice... a bit early to assume.

Makers of this stuff seem so concerned now with reinvention and doing things different to make it their own... but now we're going to be well into "been done already" territory, it wouldn't surprise me if we move on to a 3rd ethnic background next time.

Changing April up like this though, I'd rather they created a character who is clearly mixed. You don't end up with a very specifically Irish surname without being of Irish decent. It might have worked with a generic widespread name like, say, Smith, but a name like O'Neil on someone not Irish is the part that has bugged me. (But that's probably also the genealogist in me that can't buy it.)


Personally though, I'm more concerned we'll be stuck having the "teenage" part of the title shoved to the forefront from now on and making them increasingly kiddie in shows/movies. Really starting to want the in name title only bit back. Nothing wrong with "older" Turtles who can be role models (excluding the violent part) instead of peers driven into being teen stereotypes.

[Last Ronin]

They really went with the teenage stuff....

I swear to God if the scene they are recording destroying the watermelon is for a Tik Tok Ima loose it. I'm the one going Mayhem on this movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Characters identities do matter as they were envisioned by their creators.
You want your "diversity"? Create a new character. Swapping old ones is just lazy and creatively bankrupt.

And worse, implies that the only way that a character that is ________ (gay/black/trans/etc.) can be popular or accepted is if they hijack a pre-existing character that is NOT _______ (gay/black/trans/etc.). As in, an admission that it wouldn't succeed of its own merit or at the very least a great (cowardly) worry.

[IMJ]

You have zero clue how the real world works. ****ing idiotic.

There is nothing even remotely idiotic about being bold enough to see through the witch-hunt that "racism is only towards blacks" and pointing out that blacks cultivate racism as a culture while routinely disregarding their own racist output.

No, I didn't say anything idiotic at all. What I did do was say something that you can't compute with your f'n tunnel vision about how you choose to believe the real world works.

And if you want more "real world" then digest the fact that you're clearly in the population who is wandering around on perception all day instead of reality. It's called confirmation bias and how through it people like yourself look at the world through a single lens and then seek to confirm at the exclusion of the truth. Try reading it if your ego can get past the epiphany that you've spent your life as a f'n drone. It's PC Wason, 1966. Good luck.

And worse, implies that the only way that a character that is ________ (gay/black/trans/etc.) can be popular or accepted is if they hijack a pre-existing character that is NOT _______ (gay/black/trans/etc.). As in, an admission that it wouldn't succeed of its own merit or at the very least a great (cowardly) worry.

Hijacking an existing character for your own fiendish needs should simply be referred to for what it is then - sloppy seconds. You can't contribute in any meaningful way or create anything people want to see? Okay go ahead, you can have the sloppy seconds there - go get into that movie.

[neatoman]

https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/co/image/1678/14/1678141881351.png

[Cowabung-Gal]

A new follow-up video by Eric July

fxH8M9TQEXc

[oldmanwinters]

https://desu-usergeneratedcontent.xyz/co/image/1678/14/1678141881351.png

:tlol::tlol::tlol::tanime:

[Papenbrook]

Oh, would you look at that? It's all of the dudebros moaning and complaining about change. :roll:

While I would like for April to be permanently black, I doubt that desire would actually come to fruition, unfortunately.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Oh, would you look at that? It's all of the dudebros moaning and complaining about change. :roll:

While I would like for April to be permanently black, I doubt that desire would actually come to fruition, unfortunately.

Dudebros and Umlikes. Be more inclusive please. :D

Why do you want April to be black though? What’s wrong with a new black TMNT character? Unless minority groups are not worth the effort of coming up with original well-written characters who could also represent them in the story? Just paint all the white characters black or brown and you’re done, right?

[Autbot_Benz]

Dudebros and Umlikes. Be more inclusive please. :D

Why do you want April to be black though? What’s wrong with a new black TMNT character? Unless minority groups are not worth the effort of coming up with original well-written characters who could also represent them in the story? Just paint all the white characters black or brown and you’re done, right?

If making a new black character is too hard. Just make Irma Black that would be a happy medium. I don't think people would be that upset over Irma compared to April

[Cowabung-Gal]

If making a new black character is too hard. Just make Irma Black that would be a happy medium. I don't think people would be that upset over Irma compared to April

I’ve got a better idea: how about not raceswapping any of the characters? Why would making a new black character be any harder than making a new white character?

[CyberCubed]

I honestly wonder why they don't make Casey black instead of April. I think people would accept a black Casey more, since Casey can be "from 'da hood" and be from a poor black family who wants to clean up crime in his fair streets. Casey already used a lot of homie lingo in the 2012 series, so him being a black kid or purple dragon gangsta turned hero would fit better.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I honestly wonder why they don't make Casey black instead of April. I think people would accept a black Casey more, since Casey can be "from 'da hood" and be from a poor black family who wants to clean up crime in his fair streets. Casey already used a lot of homie lingo in the 2012 series, so him being a black kid or purple dragon gangsta turned hero would fit better.

Um…that’s kind of stereotypical, dontcha think?

[Papenbrook]

Dudebros and Umlikes. Be more inclusive please. :D

Why do you want April to be black though? What’s wrong with a new black TMNT character? Unless minority groups are not worth the effort of coming up with original well-written characters who could also represent them in the story? Just paint all the white characters black or brown and you’re done, right?


Well, April was originally conceived as a black woman. So, …

By the way, on Twitter, a member's artwork was posted without permission.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Well, April was originally conceived as a black woman. So, …


(Sigh) Here we go yet again.

No. No, she wasn’t:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2018/02/was-april-oneil-originally-black-in.html

[Andrew NDB]

Well, April was originally conceived as a black woman.

Yeah, nope.

[Autbot_Benz]

Well, April was originally conceived as a black woman. So, …



Not true

https://i.imgur.com/jtsGqcm.jpg

[Papenbrook]

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

[Cowabung-Gal]

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

Ehhh! Wrong.

She was originally imagined as an Asian woman by Laird and named after a woman of mixed-race by Eastman. But both creators decided that she should be a white woman before issue #2 was published. No whitewashing involved.

The only character that ended up being whitewashed was Baxter Stockman in the ‘87 cartoon when he was originally black in the Mirage comics

[CyberCubed]

Um…that’s kind of stereotypical, dontcha think?

Casey already acts "more black" than April. Especially 2012 Casey. It would be more accepted. April was a standard white girl in all previous movies and cartoons prior to Rise, so her change is more drastic.

[TurtleManiac]

The only character that ended up being whitewashed was Baxter Stockman in the ‘87 cartoon when he was originally black in the Mirage comics

I kinda see why. Shredder would boss him around and even called him “slave” a few times. That probably would not have been acceptable even back then.

They should of brought back Carter for the new movie.

[IndigoErth]

I honestly wonder why they don't make Casey black instead of April. I think people would accept a black Casey more, since Casey can be "from 'da hood" and be from a poor black family who wants to clean up crime in his fair streets. Casey already used a lot of homie lingo in the 2012 series, so him being a black kid or purple dragon gangsta turned hero would fit better.
In that case bring FW's Carter back. I didn't care for the mutation angle with him (because it was a rather bizarre one in concept), but he's got potential to be updated (without getting stereotypical) as an already existing character.

He could have been a more interesting character back then, but I liked him okay, more than most other additional human side characters (I mean who wants Zach back? lol), and wouldn't mind seeing him return and be fleshed out more as a TMNT friend and ally.

edit: Plus he's basically got the same hair style as the new April, all these years later... which means absolutely nothing, but just noticed that. lol :) Would it still work for a guy today, too?

They should of brought back Carter for the new movie.
Ah, beat me to it.

[Last Ronin]

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

She was imagined but it never came to fruition. She is white with a white name April O'Neal people just don't want to grasp that. Someone posted that even one of the creators said she's white.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

So, she was originally based on ( and imagined as ) a woman of color.

Then, she was white-washed.

Got it.

April had a perm hairstyle. Lots of women wore it in the 80s.

[Galactus]

I'd take the word of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird on this issue over some random youtuber.

Depending on which one pitched the character first the idea of April O'Neil was either conceived as a Chinese-American or an African American as a tribute to Kevin's then real life mixed race girlfriend. That comes directly from the mouths of Peter and Kevin so I think should be accepted as fact.

It seems they both compromised and made the character white but it's clear that as early the fourth issue Kevin was stealth trying to make the character resemble the real life April Fisher. He was stealth trying to make her look black or mixed race...and frankly that's kind of a questionable thing to do and not tell Peter but that is clearly what he was doing nonetheless.

To be honest I don't think April's race is even mentioned in the comics. I think the closest is seeing her father was white in her V.4 origin issue. She could easily be mixed race like the real person on which she's based. There is nothing in the books themselves that say what April's racial background is; the argument comes down strictly to authorial intent and we know from Peter has said they were not on the same page on this issue. He's openly said that he's always seen the character on the page as white but if you ask Kevin he would say she is black.

The only acceptable answer to whether the original Mirage April is black is: kinda.

I'd argue since Peter signed off on another version of April being black in #32 he's doesn't have anything against other versions of the character not being white. He was okay with other characters races being changed in the 2003 animated series. It's fine guys. You'll survive with a non white April.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I'd take the word of Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird on this issue over some random youtuber.

Clearly you didn’t see this then:

(Sigh) Here we go yet again.

No. No, she wasn’t:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2018/02/was-april-oneil-originally-black-in.html

The link leads to a blog that repeatedly quotes Eastman and Laird, written by a true TMNT fan who clearly has done his homework on this particular subject.

What’s your beef with YouTube videos anyway? This isn’t the first time you’ve tried to discredit me by pointing out my YouTube links. Yes, Eric July is a YouTuber, but he’s also a real comic book fan who is knowledgeable about these franchises and actually does research on them, like most of us here on Technodrome Forum, and he doesn’t care about political correctness or what’s the current “thing” with normies who were never fans to begin with.. I’ll certainly take his word over the paid shills and corporate plants on Twitter or Reddit. He’s also a comic book creator whose series was a huge success since he actually knows what the fans want, so yeah I’d say he’s qualified to speak on this matter.

But anyway, we’re not here to talk about Eric. We’re talking about raceswapped April and why it doesn’t work.

[Galactus]

Clearly you didn’t see this then:



The link leads to a blog that repeatedly quotes Eastman and Laird, written by a true TMNT fan who clearly has done his homework on this particular subject.

What’s your beef with YouTube videos anyway? This isn’t the first time you’ve tried to discredit me by pointing out my YouTube links. Yes, Eric July is a YouTuber, but he’s also a real comic book fan who is knowledgeable about these franchises and actually does research on them, like most of us here on Technodrome Forum, and he doesn’t care about political correctness or what’s the current “thing” with normies who were never fans to begin with.. I’ll certainly take his word over the paid shills and corporate plants on Twitter or Reddit.

You seem to use them instead of making arguments of your own.

I don't care what a politically motivated youtuber says. Peter initially wanted April to be of East Asian descent and Kevin wanted her to be black or mixed race. That is a fact.

They seemingly settled on making her white but very quickly Kevin quickly started drawing to resemble the real life mixed race women he wanted the character to be based on. This is also a fact.

Peter Laird has said that while considers April to be white Kevin most likely doesn't. This is another fact.

Nothing the guy says in that video disputes any of the above. Thing is fans who argue vehemently against this do so because they feel if it's accepted that at least one of creators sees her as non white it validates other creators making her non white and they can't do their faux outrage about race swapping the character.

[Cowabung-Gal]

You seem to use them instead of making arguments of your own.

What’s wrong with using videos that provide good talking points or show solid evidence? For example, if I wanted to discuss the mentality of serial killers, I’d want to post a video or an article that was done by a certified psychologist to back up my claims. And regarding the topic of raceswapping white characters into black characters, who’d you rather listen to: some white chick who spends way too much time on this forum (me) or a successful and smart black comic creator like Eric?

But you know what? Clearly it doesn’t matter to you what I say anyway. I could give you notes from Peter and Kevin themselves and you’d still brush me off as some political hack who can’t think for herself. When I talked about my disapproval with genderswapping, you asked me, “Did you join this forum just to post your political views?” Oh, so wanting original female characters and not just traditionally male characters with boobs photoshopped on them makes me right-wing? Free thinking and creativity scare you that much? And raceswapping/genderbending is NOT creativity and you know it.

[CyberCubed]

The fact that a thread about "black April" already reached over 42 replies in literally half a day since the trailer came out yesterday, shows how "controversial" this decision is in the first place. People are obviously not fine with April being black.

I see similar comments all over twitter and reddit.

[Papenbrook]

The fact that a thread about "black April" already reached over 42 replies in literally half a day since the trailer came out yesterday, shows how "controversial" this decision is in the first place. People are obviously not fine with April being black.

I see similar comments all over twitter and reddit.


… and it's mostly from the dudebros and the right-wingers.

It's pathetic.

[beardcore84]

Um…that’s kind of racist, dontcha think?

Fixed that for you.

[TurtleManiac]

What is “dudebros”? Never heard of that term.

[newhire13]

April has been black now in two incarnations in a row with Rise of the TMNT and the new upcoming CG Seth Rogen movie. Unlike the IDW comics or 2012 cartoon which predated this, now it seems like April will be remaining as black permanently going forward.

I suspect now white April will be seen as "racist" since now they "can't" go back to her original race because now it will look like "black April wasn't received well" and no way is a big company like Paramount going to let people have those views.

There is also the saying, "Once you go black you never go back" so that gives me pause as well. They can't ever "go back" now in the same manner Nick Fury is permanently black due to Samuel L. Jackson.

:roll: Aren't you late for a klan meeting or something?

[CyberCubed]

Some weird takes in this thread, I live in New York and see black people and others races every day. I live in the most ethnic diverse city in the world. I grew up with black people, Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Muslims, and all the other miscellaneous races.

I love black people, and they always make me laugh when I see them in movies and TV shows. Will Smith is one of my favorite actors. But black April just isn't it. This is April in name only. Rise April acted nothing like April either, she felt like some completely random character.

[Coola Yagami]

… and it's mostly from the long time turtle fans that were actually there from the beginning.


Fixed it for ya.
April musta not voted for Biden cause she just ain't black.

[IMJ]

What’s wrong with using videos that provide good talking points or show solid evidence?

Galactus is a circular argument maker. He doesn't care about being relevant, he just wants to "win". Had you stated your own opinion he would've demanded some kind of internet "evidence", but when you cite a YouTuber he criticizes you for not generating your own opinion.

Conversation with him tends to be "talking at" each other rather than "talking with" each other. I can only imagine how people deal with him in real life. In short, he's disingenuous. He's not the worst one here by any means, but still, don't get too drawn in.

What is “dudebros”? Never heard of that term.

It's a term that used to describe fraternity jocks who represented maybe a total of 1,500 actual people across all of America. But now it's the new racism basically used to represent any white male who the blue-hair-mentality find themselves at odds with.

[Coola Yagami]

Galactus is a circular argument maker. He doesn't care about being relevant, he just wants to "win". Had you stated your own opinion he would've demanded some kind of internet "evidence", but when you cite a YouTuber he criticizes you for not generating your own opinion.

Conversation with him tends to be "talking at" each other rather than "talking with" each other. I can only imagine how people deal with him in real life. In short, he's disingenuous. He's not the worst one here by any means, but still, don't get too drawn in.



It's a term that used to describe fraternity jocks who represented maybe a total of 1,500 actual people across all of America. But now it's the new racism basically used to represent any white male who the blue-hair-mentality find themselves at odds with.

The irony is, the turtles are pretty much dudebros, especially Raph and Casey.

And no one really had a problem with them until people started with these dumbass buzzwords.

[TurtleManiac]

It's a term that used to describe fraternity jocks who represented maybe a total of 1,500 actual people across all of America. But now it's the new racism basically used to represent any white male who the blue-hair-mentality find themselves at odds with.

So it’s a racial slur, basically? Keep seeing 1 or 2 members throwing that word around all over this thread. Ironically it’s the same people that say it is racist to criticize the April race-swap. But these same people are apparently anti-white. In real life you can’t choose to be white or black, but you can choose to color your hair blue, or change the color of pop culture characters.

Race swapping an established character for woke points is just lazy and meant to stir controversy. And I say this from a neutral perspective. I’m neither white or black, I’m hispanic/latino, the media just paints everything as black and white. I never cared that there wasn’t any hispanics in the old TMNT cartoon/movies, I don’t need to “see myself represented” in pop culture. And I sure wouldn’t want them changing an established character’s race just to pander to “my people”. I would much rather have them create a new character for that, instead of hand-me-downs. Keno in TMNT 2, perfect example, a new original character for the movie, well received, no racism involved.

All in all, I really don’t care that they wanna turn April black, cause I know this movie is not for me. As long as I still have my 193 episodes of the old ‘87 cartoon, the 90’s movies and the ‘84 comics, I’m set. But if it gets to the point where they start turning ‘87 cartoon April black in any future adaptions of the ‘87 cartoon universe, IE new games based on it like Shredder’s revenge, because it’s “rooted in white supremacy” or some woke BS, then that’s a problem. Never under-estimate clown world, it will never peak, it just keeps expanding.

[sdp]

Yeah, had this April gone by without notice and this movie failed we would've seen black April gone but now that it became political with even casuals it's likely we'll have black april for a long time. But who knows, I also thought April was never going to be an adult again since they made her a teen but that seems changing, and since new april is fat she won't even be a ninja which is also good. I just hope we can also move on from 87 sexy april. I always saw her as a motherly figure and it's only weird GenXrs who sexualized her. Scientist April plz.

But yeah even members like Vaughn who are as progressive as you can be have been called racist just for pointing out that April isn't black in the comics. But I mean that's what anyone gets for trying to correct someone who has clout.

[Cowabung-Gal]

and since new april is fat she won't even be a ninja which is also good. I just hope we can also move on from 87 sexy april. I always saw her as a motherly figure and it's only weird GenXrs who sexualized her. Scientist April plz.

If she was a scientist then she mostly likely wouldn’t be fat, since she would know just how harmful it would be to carry so much weight and consume so many calories. Scientists don’t have to be unattractive nerds like how Donnie doesn’t have to wear glasses just because he’s smart.

I say bring back thin April at least.

[CyberCubed]

Remember when people called April a toothpick in the 2k3 series. Well this is karma for that 20 years later.

[Coola Yagami]

Remember when people called April a toothpick in the 2k3 series. Well this is karma for that 20 years later.

To be fair.... 2K3 April was still bangable though.

One thing I did hear, and this movie did kinda set the precedent for it, is once a character is raceswapped, that characters is kinda doomed to repeat that, going under the notion of 'well, we did it once, why not a second time?'. April might be the new character we'll see go black in the next new incarnation, similar to how it's popular to make Jimmy Olsen black nowadays.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah the issue isn't that she is black, she could have been made Indian or Asian or Muslim or whatever and it would still be a pointless change.

What's wrong with white people just being white? It's like they're saying white people just aren't good enough anymore.

[Coola Yagami]

What's wrong with white people just being white? It's like they're saying white people just aren't good enough anymore.

More like what's wrong with redheads being white? Are there even any black redheads in real life? Not counting hair dye of course.

[Zulithe]

More like what's wrong with redheads being white? Are there even any black redheads in real life? Not counting hair dye of course.
Careful -- if you ask that on social media you'll be flooded with pics. There are some uncommon (not sure how rare, but certainly not common) genetic situations where it can happen. I'm not sure if they are all bi-racial but they usually look it.

People who love seeing PoC replacing gingers in media love to point this out to everyone around them.

[Coola Yagami]

Careful -- if you ask that on social media you'll be flooded with pics. There are some uncommon (not sure how rare, but certainly not common) genetic situations where it can happen. I'm not sure if they are all bi-racial but they usually look it.

People who love seeing PoC replacing gingers in media love to point this out to everyone around them.

Interesting, but doesn't sound as common as racebent media wants to make it seem.

[Andrew NDB]

Careful -- if you ask that on social media you'll be flooded with pics. There are some uncommon (not sure how rare, but certainly not common) genetic situations where it can happen. I'm not sure if they are all bi-racial but they usually look it.

People who love seeing PoC replacing gingers in media love to point this out to everyone around them.

Like that one that Disney loves. All of a sudden she was everywhere, in Solo, then Falcon & The Winter Soldier, then Willow.

[Papenbrook]

The term "dudebro" isn't a slur; it isn't anti-white, either.

Dudebros should just stop their overdramatic reaction, as they're using the backlash to cover their bigotry.

[beardcore84]

What's wrong with white people just being white? It's like they're saying white people just aren't good enough anymore.

Literally no one is saying that.

[Coola Yagami]

Literally no one is saying that. G

You got literal polls of people asking 'what are straight white men even good for?' with most people answering 'nothing' or some variation.

[IndigoErth]

Even jerks are capable of making polls or flocking to those that appeal to them. Most people however are too busy with other stuff to bother with that petty nonsense.

[Coola Yagami]

Even jerks are capable of making polls or flocking to those that appeal to them. Most people however are too busy with other stuff to bother with that petty nonsense.

True but you can't deny there's been a bit of anti-white movement growing over the last few years. It's cool to hate white people nowadays and that's sad.

[Cowabung-Gal]

True but you can't deny there's been a bit of anti-white movement growing over the last few years. It's cool to hate white people nowadays and that's sad.

And I am so. Freaking. TIRED of it. Reverse racism is still RACISM. Soft bigotry is still BIGOTRY.

[IndigoErth]

Eh, they've always existed and I can't really say I've ever found those people worth worrying about. Shame that they feel that way, but if they want to live their life being bitter or petty that's on them, they aren't impacting my life.

[Andrew NDB]

And the people saying that stuff, if you actually look at them they're mostly either feminine men or some kind of 5th wave feminism weirdos. Who in the world is interested in what these people have to say?

[Warhorse]

Ah, more virtue signaling as well as adding insult. If they really wanted to do it right, they would create a whole new character that can't be compared to anyone else. But these so called creators are just being lazy.

[Warhorse]

If making a new black character is too hard. Just make Irma Black that would be a happy medium. I don't think people would be that upset over Irma compared to April

Or why not Karai! :D

[staypuftweepel]

I really don’t care what color they make April in this movie or any other continuities because I don’t think every turtle story has to be the same. I think the worst thing about the trailer was the dumb over talking humor. I did see comictropes post a tweet that read:

“ Apparently the TMNT trailer has triggered some racists who aren't aware that April was originally black.”

That makes me mad just because it’s completely untrue and just a headline for the sake of causing twitter drama. Kevin giving her the name April doesn’t make her black and neither does giving her black curly hair. If Peter was the character designer on issue 2, which has been well established, and he decided to make her white And of a European decent then she was always white. Issue 32 isn’t in regular continuity. As I said I don’t care what they make her, but don’t use Tmnt as a way to start some annoying twitter crusade.

I think it’s weird to try and say a character is a certain race because they have a certain hair style. Look at the self portraits of Kevin Eastman back then. His hair looks like Eriq La Salle in Coming to America.

[Coola Yagami]

Or why not Karai! :D

I am curious if there would be backlash against that. Usually no one is supposed to care another whiteboy got racebent, but an Asian woman? Hmmm

[Zog The Magnificent]

The only thing that needs to be said:

If a character started out as black, would ANYONE be saying the things that people always say about white characters?

"White isn't an identity."
"It's okay to switch out white people."
'We need more diversity."
"White people have had the spotlight long enough."

And so on and so on. Switch all those out with black or asian or indian or whatever. Would ANYONE be okay with that?

No they F**cking wouldn't be. Racisim is racism, but for some reason it's totally okay to continually make racist and derogitory statements about white people all the time. If it would be "problematic" or "racist" to swap out a black character, then it's equally problematic to swap out any other character.

[beardcore84]

Done with this forum for a while. I know y'all don't care/will celebrate and that is fine but the toxic negativity combined with the blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry is just too much. I don't need that negativity in my life. Y'all are truly some misguided souls and history will prove that.

[Andrew NDB]

Mumble mumble, bigotry, right side of history, etc.. Yes, yes.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Done with this forum for a while. I know y'all don't care/will celebrate and that is fine but the toxic negativity combined with the blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry is just too much. I don't need that negativity in my life. Y'all are truly some misguided souls and history will prove that.

https://media.tenor.com/my5cAVU959AAAAAC/live-free-or-die-hard-die-hard4.gif

:lol:

Sure. Okay.

[CyberCubed]

Done with this forum for a while. I know y'all don't care/will celebrate and that is fine but the toxic negativity combined with the blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry is just too much. I don't need that negativity in my life. Y'all are truly some misguided souls and history will prove that.

I mean that's the thing, if we say we want white April back, we're considered "racist" or "wrong" now by the general media. That's the problem.

It's a lose/lose situation. White April will now be viewed as racist since black April can't be reverted. Now April is "claimed" as black.

[Andrew NDB]

i7iQbBbMAFE

"Free your mind
And the rest will follow
Be colour-blind
Don't be so shallow
Free your mind
And the rest will follow
Be colour-blind
Don't be so shallow"

The song wouldn't exist today. Or if it did, it would be decried by these lunatics.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Done with this forum for a while. I know y'all don't care/will celebrate and that is fine but the toxic negativity combined with the blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry is just too much. I don't need that negativity in my life. Y'all are truly some misguided souls and history will prove that.

Yes, yes, somehow WE'RE racist because we want the white character to not be raceswapped, even though everyone and their mother throws a fit if any other race of character gets swapped out with a white person. If you're gonna claim to have views, at least have them be consistent.

Don't let the non-existant door hit you on the way out.

[Sumac]

What's wrong with white people just being white? It's like they're saying white people just aren't good enough anymore.
Certain ideological group considers White people to be the culprit of all evil things in history - from fall of Ancient Egypt to some random volcano eruption in the middle ages to climate change and pollution and so on. This group also believes that White people are inherently racist and sexist monsters (born evil) who spend all they waking hours trying to oppress and kill (which is it?) Blacks and other non-White people, even to extent of harming their own communities just to oppress non-whites.

Their beliefs, obviously, don't make sense and basically the same **** Nazis are thinking about Jews or any other racist group is thinking about their "target".

Done with this forum for a while. I know y'all don't care/will celebrate and that is fine but the toxic negativity combined with the blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry is just too much. I don't need that negativity in my life. Y'all are truly some misguided souls and history will prove that.
Why anyone should celebrate creative bankruptcy here? Just, because, it aligns with your ****** ideology? Sorry, sweaty, I think people here want a bit more from the work than just ideological pandering.
But, of course, wanting quality instead of ideological pandering is a horrible act of "oppression", LOL.

Also, stop with this "right side of history crap" - you are not on the right side of history. You are like screaming from bushes next to the side of the road and you will be forgotten, when the next thing will become "in".

And just advice for the future: if you don't want "negativity" stop sowing it everywhere you go. This political divide is a result of your "right side of history" ruining and ******** on everything in its path, like locusts and parasites.

Touch some grass and self-reflect.

… and it's mostly from the dudebros and the right-wingers.

It's pathetic.
Yes, yes, everyone who disagrees with your trash ideology are "right-wingers".
Can you make up some new arguments instead of regurgitated word diarhea no-one take seriously anymore?

:roll: Aren't you late for a klan meeting or something?
Aren't you late for a commie meeting or something?

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Why anyone should celebrate creative bankruptcy here? Just, because, it aligns with your ****** ideology? Sorry, sweaty, I think people here want a bit more from the work than just ideological pandering.
But, of course, wanting quality instead of ideological pandering is a horrible act of "oppression", LOL.

Also, stop with this "right side of history crap" - you are not on the right side of history. You are like screaming from bushes next to the side of the road and you will be forgotten, when the next thing will become "in".

And just advice for the future: if you don't want "negativity" stop sowing it everywhere you go. This political divide is a result of your "right side of history" ruining and ******** on everything in its path, like locusts and parasites.

Touch some grass and self-reflect.


Yes, yes, everyone who disagrees with your trash ideology are "right-wingers".
Can you make up some new arguments instead of regurgitated word diarhea no-one take seriously anymore?

It's such a shame people have to come here and defend this. Are fans now in the phase where we should settle for the lowest common denominator?

Also, Papenbrook always posts her own triggered thoughts on a lot of controversial topics on these forums so irony is striking hot here.

[Sumac]

It's such a shame people have to come here and defend this. Are fans now in the phase where we should settle for the lowest common denominator?
I guess, it is either we celebrate pile of **** or just grumble in our corner.
Or just leaving.

Quite some time I saw this as a good alternative, like why I should care about franchise, which ha become garbage? But later I figured out, that leaving is basically giving it up to the people who makes and likes this garbage. Its like leaving your home at the mercy of a tyrant.

Nowadays, I think, it is better and fight, even it is basically reminding people that TMNT once had some good stuff, as opposed to whatever it has become nowadays.

[CyberCubed]

I'm honestly scared one of the Turtles might be gay. Like it won't be "full" gay, but they'll throw in some "hints" that one of the Turtles is more into guys or something. It's only a matter of time.

[Coola Yagami]

Done with this forum for a while. I know y'all don't care/will celebrate and that is fine but the toxic negativity combined with the blatant racism, sexism, homophobia and bigotry is just too much. I don't need that negativity in my life. Y'all are truly some misguided souls and history will prove that.

One less plant.

Next time try leaving your self righteous politics at the door.

Such a shame that even the Turtles aren't safe from wokeness.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

Am I the only white person here that doesn't care if April is black? It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. What does bother me is Donnie's voice sounding like little Bill from Nick Jr. and Raph's bandana going over the top of his head. As long as April has a cool personality I'm good.

[neatoman]

Am I the only white person here that doesn't care if April is black?

I don't... But I do find it odd that they chose to seemingly combine her design with the Garbageman. Maybe they're finally going to do that long lost twin story with Hun?

[Zachatello00]

I hesitated to weigh in on the discussion, and may just regret doing so, but, against my better judgement, here goes.

It seems the biggest argument that I'm seeing for changing April's race is "why is it such a big deal?"

I guess I'd answer that by saying: if it's not a big deal to change it, then it's probably not a big deal to just... leave it alone.

[CyberCubed]

Am I the only white person here that doesn't care if April is black? It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. What does bother me is Donnie's voice sounding like little Bill from Nick Jr. and Raph's bandana going over the top of his head. As long as April has a cool personality I'm good.

Being black again is a pointless change but they also made her fat on top of it. It's even more of a stereotype now because she looks like a heavy set black woman. They're basically giving in to the fat black woman trope.

[Autbot_Benz]

Being black again is a pointless change but they also made her fat on top of it. It's even more of a stereotype now because she looks like a heavy set black woman. They're basically giving in to the fat black woman trope.

Stop obsessing about this cubed its unhealthy

[Last Ronin]

Being black again is a pointless change but they also made her fat on top of it. It's even more of a stereotype now because she looks like a heavy set black woman. They're basically giving in to the fat black woman trope.

Agreed, she looks like Whoopi Goldberg over here. How is she supposed to keep up with the turtles if the only thing she's willing to run to is McDonald's. I bet she'll be the fat, black lesbian in this iteration as well. The pandering is real.

[TurtleManiac]

Agreed, she looks like Whoopi Goldberg over here. How is she supposed to keep up with the turtles if the only thing she's willing to run to is McDonald's. I bet she'll be the fat, black lesbian in this iteration as well. The pandering is real.

That’s what I thought as well, she totally looks like Whoopi Goldberg, as if they modeled this new April off of Bernadette Thompson from the Michael Bay films.

As for the actual thread topic, my guess is that most likely she will remain black going forward. Unless some director or whoever has control isn’t afraid of getting “cancelled” for changing her back to white.

But usually the changes are permanent. One example is the “Jake From State Farm” commercial. At first it was a white guy playing Jake on the first commercial, then it became popular, and they replaced the white actor with a black actor, and now he’s like the mascot of State Farm. If they were to change back to the original Jake, there would probably be outrage, and calls to boycott State Farm Insurance.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

A lot of you must be new here because you'd think you'd learn by now that whatever concerns Cubed has should not be taken offensively. It's what happens when you give his posts attention!

I can see where he's coming from though. While not the first version to have April black, it is odd that they're sticking with this choice.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm honestly scared one of the Turtles might be gay. Like it won't be "full" gay, but they'll throw in some "hints" that one of the Turtles is more into guys or something. It's only a matter of time.

This is possible. Sort of like before Disney made Luke Skywalker gay. i.e., if you want him to be, you can find ways to mentally make him that without anything contradicting that.

[ProphetofGanja]

this forum is such a stupid garbage fire sometimes

[Coola Yagami]

this forum is such a stupid garbage fire sometimes

Naw you're just oversensitive or just a casual fan.

[Last Ronin]

this forum is such a stupid garbage fire sometimes


So difference of opinions offend you? Got it.

[CyberCubed]

Man if only we knew.

[TigerClaw]

I don't really care what skin color April is, When the only thing that matters are the Turtles, Since they are the stars of the new movie, The way they look and sound is more important then the skin color of human characters.

[Warhorse]

I don't really care what skin color April is, When the only thing that matters are the Turtles, Since they are the stars of the new movie, The way they look and sound is more important then the skin color of human characters.

^This is true. When watching the movies, the most boring parts were the ones that focused on April. And in my opinion, she's not even the most fascinating human (that's Casey) or even female (that's Karai)..........

[IndigoErth]

You really bumped two other older threads on this topic alongside the current one? Yeah, that doesn't look bad on you or anything... (By which I mean it does.)

I get having a preference in characterization, esp if a character a top favorite in a franchise, and not being happy about it when it's done differently... but needing all three threads current looks bad.



Same about the Turtles for me. I'm not thrilled about how they decided to cast them in a way that makes them sound between 8 and 14... but if their proper personalities are intact and they aren't cringily out of character, then I'll make do with this go around. Screw up their characterization, esp my fave, and that's the only true deal breaker for me.

April... meh. I prefer what I knew her to be throughout my youth, but I can't say I have much attachment to her so it doesn't bother me that much when they change her like this. But I get that some might be touchy over if she IS their fave in the franchise, as I was with what Rise decided to do with Leo.

Now if someone is just mad that a version of her won't turn them on... really, there is a porn star that goes by the same name, I think you can make do for now.

[jignat]

Am I the only white person here that doesn't care if April is black? It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. What does bother me is Donnie's voice sounding like little Bill from Nick Jr. and Raph's bandana going over the top of his head. As long as April has a cool personality I'm good.

From April I really only need 2 things.

1) To have a big sister/mom relationship with the tmnt
2) Ideally be a non powered human

Don's voice is slighlty annoying to me too, but the glasses bugs me more.
I'd rather he have the "narrow head" than glasses.

[TigerClaw]

^This is true. When watching the movies, the most boring parts were the ones that focused on April. And in my opinion, she's not even the most fascinating human (that's Casey) or even female (that's Karai)..........
The only characters I found the most interesting are the ones that aren't human, The best stuff from TMNT in general has always been the more fantastical characters, Be it Mutants, Or aliens of any sort.

[Galactus]

Honestly the whole furore about Mutant Mayhem doing a black April will be a phenomenal self own on the part of people who are advocating against it. In all likelihood this movie will be a moderate hit and have little baring on future versions of the franchise but if it the whole debate about April's race blows up into a big thing then it's now hard to see what is going to happen; Kevin Eastman will be interviewed and asked about it and he'll state originally envisioned the character as black and that's how he's long seen her then that will become just how Viacom approach every new version of the character from now on.

Galactus is a circular argument maker. He doesn't care about being relevant, he just wants to "win". Had you stated your own opinion he would've demanded some kind of internet "evidence", but when you cite a YouTuber he criticizes you for not generating your own opinion.

Conversation with him tends to be "talking at" each other rather than "talking with" each other. I can only imagine how people deal with him in real life. In short, he's disingenuous. He's not the worst one here by any means, but still, don't get too drawn in.

When debating something I tend to want to cite stuff like facts and evidence. That's generally how a debates reach conclusions. I'm not sure you're one to lecture anyone on "talking at" rather than "talking with" whenever someone comes up with an argument you're unable to counter you insult them.

More like what's wrong with redheads being white? Are there even any black redheads in real life? Not counting hair dye of course.

I get the confusion over Apri's race in the Mirage comics as she was clearly depicted as both white and black at different times but the redhead thing is genuinely puzzling to me. When did April having red hair become part of the canon? If we're talking about the Mirage comics she clearly has dark hair in the interior art and maybe I'm a little colour blind but the '87 April and the action figure looked like she had brown hair. It was Judith Hoag in the 1990 that seemed to cement this idea but even then she was recast in the sequels with Paige Turco who was a brunette. This isn't redhead erasure. Personally I care even less about April's hair colour than I do about her race.

[Andrew NDB]

Honestly, instead of April why not just make her "Wendy," then the real April shows up later on or in another movie and now we have two strong female leads?

[IndigoErth]

Wait. Competitor reporter (or future competition) May Williams.


edit: If they insist on repeatedly going the teen friend angle, it would be cool if they'd leave April as an adult who is still present to some extent, but the teen female friend (who is present more) looks up to her. Be it that April is a reporter the kid admires, or a scientist who, say, gave a speech and presentation at her school pertaining to women in fields of science, or whatever other career.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Honestly, instead of April why not just make her "Wendy," then the real April shows up later on or in another movie and now we have two strong female leads?

See the thing is, if that girl wasn’t April O’Neil, then most of us wouldn’t have had a problem with that. If they wanted to replace April with a black, Hispanic, or Asian girl who’s an entirely different character as the main female protagonist and the turtles’ new human sidekick, then the whole outrage would never have happened. In fact, from what I’ve observed in the last couple of days, some viewers didn’t even know that was April at first glance; they assumed it was someone else. When they found out just who that was, they were annoyed and were even ticked off. Also many of them don’t have much faith in Seth Rogen. :lol:

It’s not diversity people are griping about; it’s the fact that Hollywood keeps genderbending and raceswapping characters, as a way to “generously” give minority groups leftovers as well as to slap white people in the face yet again.

[Coola Yagami]

To be fair, I do think there would have been some backlash if hey used some random made-up person named Wendy with the Turtles instead of April, but not as bad as if April was raceswapped and fat.

But then again, TMNT is a pre-existing property.

If they want to put some rando fatass character that is literally April in name only, just make your own movie. Make your own franchise.

[neatoman]

I hate that I made this thread in the first place, can someone just lock it like the other ones on the same topic?

[CyberCubed]

This thread will never die.

[Xav]

Does anyone know in what interview Kevin said April was black? Because all I keep seeing is people reposting the same quote of him saying see was "named" after a black woman.

[Zachatello00]

Does anyone know in what interview Kevin said April was black? Because all I keep seeing is people reposting the same quote of him saying see was "named" after a black woman.

That’s because there is no interview where Kevin said April was black.

[Monty Mole]

That April looks great!

I still have no interest in watching Mutant Mayham but that wouldn't have changed regardless of April's race.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

It’s crazy to see how long this debate has been going on when it’s so obviously settled.

April was originally white. She got a perm.

However, it doesn’t matter if a different version of her is black.

Stop being racist guys.

[Andrew NDB]

Stop being racist guys.

That's not what that word means. Knock it off.

[Cowabung-Gal]

It’s crazy to see how long this debate has been going on when it’s so obviously settled.

April was originally white. She got a perm.

However, it doesn’t matter if a different version of her is black.

Stop being racist guys.

Would you be okay with Marvel deciding to raceswap Black Panther and make him white instead? If you complain about that, should we call you “racist”? Every Disney studio and theme park would be burned to the ground and you know it.

We’re merely calling out Rogen for his stupidity as well as his own racism. If he wanted to make a black female character, why couldn’t he have come up with an original one instead of just giving April a lazy black makeover, and why did he make her so unattractive and fat? Black people deserve better representation, don’t ya think?

The majority of us here aren’t “racist”. Like Andrew said, please quit it

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, case in point, when the 2014 movie wanted to change Shredder into, "Eric Sachs," essentially changing Asian Oroku Saki into a white man, I was the one the most pissed off about it all. I raged for months when we heard that news in the leak script all the way till the movie came out, and thankfully they went back on it and made Shredder Asian. (granted the movie was terrible anyway, but that's besides the point)

It has nothing to do with black people only. I was enraged Shredder was being changed from an Asian to a white man for the same reasons.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

That's not what that word means. Knock it off.

Enlighten me as to what it means then. Because if the only reason people don’t like her is because she is black, seems racist to me.

I’m curious what some legitimate concerns about her not being white are.

Would you be okay with Marvel deciding to raceswap Black Panther and make him white instead? If you complain about that, should we call you “racist”? Every Disney studio and theme park would be burned to the ground and you know it.

We’re merely calling out Rogen for his stupidity as well as his own racism. If he wanted to make a black female character, why couldn’t he have come up with an original one instead of just giving April a lazy black makeover, and why did he make her so unattractive and fat? Black people deserve better representation, don’t ya think?

The majority of us here aren’t “racist”. Like Andrew said, please quit it

This is a hilariously bad take. “Why no white panther.”

Black panther’s race is pivotal to his identity. That’s why it matters if he is black or not. Pick a better example and maybe we could talk about it but it’s obvious why it would be really dumb to race swap a character called BLACK PANTHER.

It’s funny you call Rogen out on his stupidity of making April black, but not the character he is playing? He isn’t the right race right? Pick and choose.

Also why does someone being fat make them bad representation? Kind of a weird take

[Sir5R]

Enlighten me as to what it means then. Because if the only reason people don’t like her is because she is black, seems racist to me.

I’m curious what some legitimate concerns about her not being white are.


Its racist & lazy to take a pre-existing character and race swap them rather than creating a new, well thought out character to add to the mythos. Its also divisive to the fan base, as one can see spending any time in any forum/social media space. It does not add anything positive to the series to do it either. No ome that hates that she is now black, hate her because she is black, its that yet another white, red haired woman has once again been erased to fill a quota, lazily. I didn't care for Baxter being white in the 87 toon after being introduced to Baxter as a black man in the comics. Lots of characters have been changed from their original design... and its always bad.

What if Black Panther had that albino thing going on? His dna still says black man but he looks white. Would that be okay to you? How about Blade? John Stewart Green Lantern or even Kyle Rayner (being that he's half Irish, half Mexican if I recall correctly but always drawn as a white dude)? Racists see racism everywhere. Normal people see the character of a person (or fictional character, in this case).

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Its racist & lazy to take a pre-existing character and race swap them rather than creating a new, well thought out character to add to the mythos. Its also divisive to the fan base, as one can see spending any time in any forum/social media space. It does not add anything positive to the series to do it either. No ome that hates that she is now black, hate her because she is black, its that yet another white, red haired woman has once again been erased to fill a quota, lazily. I didn't care for Baxter being white in the 87 toon after being introduced to Baxter as a black man in the comics. Lots of characters have been changed from their original design... and its always bad.

What if Black Panther had that albino thing going on? His dna still says black man but he looks white. Would that be okay to you? How about Blade? John Stewart Green Lantern or even Kyle Rayner (being that he's half Irish, half Mexican if I recall correctly but always drawn as a white dude)? Racists see racism everywhere. Normal people see the character of a person (or fictional character, in this case).

You know what, I do actually agree that just changing a characters race CAN be a lazy and cheap way to imbue a “totally” different character with a lot of already set up world building and not having to do it yourself.

I actually do think it is better to create a new character to add to the mythos, however I think that when a property has a certain age, they are afraid the character “won’t stick” and end up trying to create diversity with characters they know people already love.

As for the examples given, I’m not going to talk about making black Panther, white. Being black is so integral to his character that you’d have to be dumb to try something like that.

Also, it’s ******** that every character being changed from their original is bad. Do most people even remember that Nick fury was white originally at this point?

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Also did you make your account to respond to me? I feel honored.

[Sumac]

Stop being racist guys.
Racism is taking pre-existing and changing the to pander to agenda.

Black panther’s race is pivotal to his identity. That’s why it matters if he is black or not. Pick a better example and maybe we could talk about it but it’s obvious why it would be really dumb to race swap a character called BLACK PANTHER.
Storm? Bishop?

It’s funny you call Rogen out on his stupidity of making April black, but not the character he is playing? He isn’t the right race right? Pick and choose.
Another example of Leftards hypocrisy. Also, Chinese nationalist Chan playing Japanese character Hamato Yoshi.

Also why does someone being fat make them bad representation? Kind of a weird take
Being fat is unhealthy. Its like "representing" alcoholism.

I actually do think it is better to create a new character to add to the mythos, however I think that when a property has a certain age, they are afraid the character “won’t stick” and end up trying to create diversity with characters they know people already love.
Who cares. It is still creatively bankrupt.

Also, it’s ******** that every character being changed from their original is bad. Do most people even remember that Nick fury was white originally at this point?
People outside of comic books or those who know about them?

[LeotheLateBloomer]

They could've just used Angel

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Racism is taking pre-existing and changing the to pander to agenda.


Storm? Bishop?


Another example of Leftards hypocrisy. Also, Chinese nationalist Chan playing Japanese character Hamato Yoshi.


Being fat is unhealthy. Its like "representing" alcoholism.


Who cares. It is still creatively bankrupt.


People outside of comic books or those who know about them?

Actually racism is - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

Not pandering, but that is ok.

What about storm and bishop? Not an x-men fan

I actually do have an issue with Jackie Chan's nationalist stances, they kind of suck, and it sucks that I love his movies even though personally he is kind of a Piece of ****. Not to mention yes, having a chinese person play a japanese person isn't a great take, but again, no one is complaining. My whole point is there is a bunch of **** that is weirder about the casting but literally no one is commenting on it. People are just fixated on the April is black thing which honestly I don't think is a big deal.

So there shouldn't be any alcoholics in movies or shows or comics? Let me tell you we'd be missing quite a few good ones if there were no alcoholics.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

They could've just used Angel

This is a better take than everyone is making. Should have just used a different character.

[Coola Yagami]

As for the Black Panther thing, there are (few) white people living in Africa ya know. Just saying. By the same token that April O'NEIL 'doesn't need to be white', Black Panther didn't need to be black.

The irony is he was created by white people which apparently is a big no-no nowadays to the dane people that champion him so much.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

As for the Black Panther thing, there are (few) white people living in Africa ya know. Just saying. By the same token that April O'NEIL 'doesn't need to be white', Black Panther didn't need to be black.

The irony is he was created by white people which apparently is a big no-no nowadays to the dane people that champion him so much.

It is pretty funny how you fundamentally don't understand.

Black panther had to be black. He is literally named after a group of people who's original purpose was... " to patrol African American neighbourhoods to protect residents from acts of police brutality."

April O'Neil was originally a lab assistant.

As for who wrote the character, who cares? If a native american person writes an awesome and compelling hispanic character that is awesome. I feel like you all think that I NEED April to be black because you think i'm "WOKE" or a "LEFTARD"

I just don't care as long as she is a cool character.

[Sumac]

Black panther had to be black. He is literally named after a group of people who's original purpose was... " to patrol African American neighbourhoods to protect residents from acts of police brutality."
So, you are either a troll or didn't do research (i.e. 5 minutes in Google):
But no, the character wasn’t named after the revolutionary socialist and black empowerment-focused Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, which was founded by Bobby Seale and Huey Newton (pictured above) in October 1966.

April O'Neil was originally a lab assistant.
"Lab assistant" is a race?

As for who wrote the character, who cares? If a native american person writes an awesome and compelling hispanic character that is awesome. I feel like you all think that I NEED April to be black because you think i'm "WOKE" or a "LEFTARD"

I just don't care as long as she is a cool character.
You clearly care, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Actually racism is - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Taking character of one ethnic and changing it to pander to sensibilities of few activists is a low key insult against against group it tries to pander to.
Like: "we take popular character and change their race and...good enough".

What about storm and bishop? Not an x-men fan
Troll detected.

I actually do have an issue with Jackie Chan's nationalist stances, they kind of suck, and it sucks that I love his movies even though personally he is kind of a Piece of ****. Not to mention yes, having a chinese person play a japanese person isn't a great take, but again, no one is complaining. My whole point is there is a bunch of **** that is weirder about the casting but literally no one is commenting on it. People are just fixated on the April is black thing which honestly I don't think is a big deal.
I am talking and some other people here as well.
And I am sure some Japanese take this news as well, as you can imagine.
But apparently, if this **** is not widespread and there are no "boycotts" and angry retards on Twitter crying, it is nothing and not wroth attention. Amazing hypocrisy. Or is it a trolling?

Also, Chinese and Japanese start from capital letters, our guy who genuinely cares about "racism".

So there shouldn't be any alcoholics in movies or shows or comics? Let me tell you we'd be missing quite a few good ones if there were no alcoholics.
Way to miss a point, Shrek.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

So, you are either a troll or didn't do research (i.e. 5 minutes in Google):


"Lab assistant" is a race?


You clearly care, otherwise you wouldn't be here.


Taking character of one ethnic and changing it to pander to sensibilities of few activists is a low key insult against against group it tries to pander to.
Like: "we take popular character and change their race and...good enough".


Troll detected.


I am talking and some other people here as well.
And I am sure some Japanese take this news as well, as you can imagine.
But apparently, if this **** is not widespread and there are no "boycotts" and angry retards on Twitter crying, it is nothing and not wroth attention. Amazing hypocrisy. Or is it a trolling?

Also, Chinese and Japanese start from capital letters, our guy who genuinely cares about "racism".


Way to miss a point, Shrek.

I'll try to address 1 by 1,

I actually did not know that black panther was not in any way related to the party. They were made in literally the same year, (the character even before which is interesting) but if you think the party and marvel deciding to make a black character such as him weren't born from the same racial tensions/issues I don't know what to tell you.

As for the lab assistant comment, you are literally proving my point. At creation her race was not a defining factor.

Of course I care about the characters, I'm on a ninja turtle forum. We are probably the most die hard of die hard fans, but no I don't care if she is black. I care if she is written well.

You are right, taking a character changing her race and saying "Hey, that's good enough for you right minority?" IS insulting. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that just because they do doesn't mean it is.

I literally don't know almost anything X-men (Storm) and I assumed bishop was also x-men. Sorry i'm not as die hard as you are.

Start a thread about Jackie Chan and i'll be sure to chime in on how for the vast majority of people "Asians" are all the same and that is ****ed up. Just like a lot people think all hispanic people are mexican. All I can go on is what I see. What I see are these forums and random people yelling that making the character black will ruin her, which I think is dumb and reductive.

Also, criticizing my grammar on an internet forum is a pretty weak argument, try harder :)

Lastly not sure what point I missed, you said being fat is unhealthy. I never argued that it wasn't or that it should be glorified, the comment was that she was bad because she was black and fat, and my comment was why does being fat make you bad representation.

Also, Shrek? He's pretty cool, i'll take that as a compliment thanks, always good to have discourse while lifting up others.

[Xav]

They could've just used AngelAngel wasn't fat either.

[neatoman]

Angel wasn't fat either.

True, but Angel does fit the bill better for what this design is going for aside from the weight and... Well, let's face it, fewer people would have complained about her being fat because fewer people know who she is...

[Cowabung-Gal]

Black panther’s race is pivotal to his identity. That’s why it matters if he is black or not. Pick a better example and maybe we could talk about it but it’s obvious why it would be really dumb to race swap a character called BLACK PANTHER.

It’s funny you call Rogen out on his stupidity of making April black, but not the character he is playing? He isn’t the right race right? Pick and choose.

Also why does someone being fat make them bad representation? Kind of a weird take

Marvel’s Black Knight is white. Black Cat is white. Black Canary is white. White Tiger is Hispanic. And since real black panthers mostly live in South and Southeast Asia but are scarce in Africa, why can’t the superhero be Indian or of Thai descent? But Stan Lee and Jack Kirby decided that the superhero Black Panther should be black, and it should stay that way in respect to the creators, as well as to let black fans have some form of representation. https://web.archive.org/web/20180219031155/http://www.thegeektwins.com/2018/02/the-secret-history-of-black-panther-by.html

Whitewashed Bebop only proves my point of Rogen’s bigotry.

And which do you think is a better role model for kids (since this is a kids movie) and a more appealing form of representation: a healthy person or a tub of lard? Why was white April attractive but black April isn’t? You don’t think that’s unfair to the black community?

[Sir5R]

Also did you make your account to respond to me? I feel honored.

I have no idea who you are. I came to chime in because thats what forums are for... right? I just didn't read the entire thread & that page was the most recent.

[Last Ronin]

I'll try to address 1 by 1,

I actually did not know that black panther was not in any way related to the party. They were made in literally the same year, (the character even before which is interesting) but if you think the party and marvel deciding to make a black character such as him weren't born from the same racial tensions/issues I don't know what to tell you.

As for the lab assistant comment, you are literally proving my point. At creation her race was not a defining factor.

Of course I care about the characters, I'm on a ninja turtle forum. We are probably the most die hard of die hard fans, but no I don't care if she is black. I care if she is written well.

You are right, taking a character changing her race and saying "Hey, that's good enough for you right minority?" IS insulting. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that just because they do doesn't mean it is.

I literally don't know almost anything X-men (Storm) and I assumed bishop was also x-men. Sorry i'm not as die hard as you are.

Start a thread about Jackie Chan and i'll be sure to chime in on how for the vast majority of people "Asians" are all the same and that is ****ed up. Just like a lot people think all hispanic people are mexican. All I can go on is what I see. What I see are these forums and random people yelling that making the character black will ruin her, which I think is dumb and reductive.

Also, criticizing my grammar on an internet forum is a pretty weak argument, try harder :)

Lastly not sure what point I missed, you said being fat is unhealthy. I never argued that it wasn't or that it should be glorified, the comment was that she was bad because she was black and fat, and my comment was why does being fat make you bad representation.

Also, Shrek? He's pretty cool, i'll take that as a compliment thanks, always good to have discourse while lifting up others.

You're annoying and clearly WOKE. Get over it. Difference of opinions are valid regardless if you think their arguments are "weak". Black washing has become a thing in this day and age. Almost every white character has to be black at some point to pander to the lunatic leftists. POC have just become a checkmark in white boardrooms and many of them don't care.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

To summarize, hating the character design just because she is black, is racist. I mean by definition.

If she sucks because she is written poorly, or is lame that isn't.

At this point we've literally seen one trailer and I think she was in it for what.... 10 seconds? Maybe?

I'll be the first to dogpile on the film if it sucks, but let the movie suck before you start yelling that the character is ruined lol.

Also i'm really not understanding why a fat person can't be a good role model. I'm kind of confused, is a skinny person a better role model than a fat person? I feel like it has no bearing. Like asking if a black person is a better role model than a white person?

Edit: I'm still genuinely curious why people don't like the design. Personally, she just looks like a teenager, which, 2012 series had, rise had, and now this. Like other people have said, the "teenager-ness" of the turtles feels like it's been done a lot recently.

[IndigoErth]

Wondering what percent of "Hollywood" lurkers are toll-ish when the see fan arguments about stuff like this... Cranky fans against something? Then hey, it might be something that needs more presentation, or so they may think? Or kids won't care, and they want kids attention anyhow, what better way to focus on a target than to turn off old fans.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I feel like kids don’t really care/pay attention unless it’s like “oh that person is cool and looks like I look!”

[TurtleManiac]

To summarize, hating the character design just because she is black, is racist. I mean by definition.


Even an existing character that’s been white for 30+ years? If it was a new original character that people hated just because she is black, then yeah. But that’s not the case, and you know that. Changing the race of an established character just to virtue signal and pander, is racist, by definition.

Nobody asked for this. There really was no other reason to make April black and fat in the new movie, other than virtue signaling, and for Seth Rogen to repent his ancestors and be on the “right side of history”. It almost seems like he set this whole thing up, to cause division and accusations of racism. We know how bad he hates “MAGA”, which mainstream celebs say is racist cause of the “again” part.

This is no longer the April we know. This is an imposter. This is just the woke promoting “body positivity” so people like Lizzo can “see themselves represented” in TMNT, instead of being original and coming up with a new character or franchise. Creativity is dead. This movie looks so lame. When woke commie celebs like Seth Rogen gain control of franchises such as TMNT and insert their ideology, they alienate half the audience.

Considering how the media glorifies obesity and puts people like Lizzo on the cover of Vogue for “body positivity”, I’m actually surprised they didn’t go full on making April obese.

[CyberCubed]

Fat people are never the answer. I don't know why they don't go on Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers Anonymous.

[Zulithe]

So race is not a part of a character according to some... but people only say this about white characters, and ONLY white characters. This is the double standard people take great issue with.

There haven't been as many incidents of whitewashing characters in the last 5+ years, but let's look at one of the most recent prominent ones that I can think of... The Ancient One from Doctor Strange, played by Tilda Swinton, a white woman, in the film, but in the comics is an Asian man. They changed the character in the films to avoid pissing off China, since The Ancient One is Tibetan.

And a lot of people very rightly criticized Marvel for doing this. It was cowardly, and the change was only made so they could release the film in China and make more money.

I happen to love Tilda as an actor and her portrayal of the character is perfectly fine. But I would prefer accuracy to the source material over pandering to a foreign government any day of the week. And I feel the same way about pandering to social activist groups.

My only point is... let's be consistent. You can't insist race is important when it's a non-white character but that their race never mattered when we're talking about a white character.

I will be seeing Mutant Mayhem opening weekend and I'm not going to decide in advance that I don't like this version of April solely based on the ethnicity change, and I never do that, but it will always be one mark that I refuse say doesn't matter, particularly when there is an ongoing trend in mass media of recasting ginger characters as PoC, it's become so prominent at this point that anyone hand-waving it is doing so in bad faith IMO.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

So race is not a part of a character according to some... but people only say this about white characters, and ONLY white characters. This is the double standard people take great issue with.

There haven't been as many incidents of whitewashing characters in the last 5+ years, but let's look at one of the most recent prominent ones that I can think of... The Ancient One from Doctor Strange, played by Tilda Swinton, a white woman, in the film, but in the comics is an Asian man. They changed the character in the films to avoid pissing off China, since The Ancient One is Tibetan.

And a lot of people very rightly criticized Marvel for doing this. It was cowardly, and the change was only made so they could release the film in China and make more money.

I happen to love Tilda as an actor and her portrayal of the character is perfectly fine. But I would prefer accuracy to the source material over pandering to a foreign government any day of the week. And I feel the same way about pandering to social activist groups.

My only point is... let's be consistent. You can't insist race is important when it's a non-white character but that their race never mattered when we're talking about a white character.

I will be seeing Mutant Mayhem opening weekend and I'm not going to decide in advance that I don't like this version of April solely based on the ethnicity change, and I never do that, but it will always be one mark that I refuse say doesn't matter, particularly when there is an ongoing trend in mass media of recasting ginger characters as PoC, it's become so prominent at this point that anyone hand-waving it is doing so in bad faith IMO.


This is a valid response appreciate it.

[IMJ]

So race is not a part of a character according to some... but people only say this about white characters, and ONLY white characters. This is the double standard people take great issue with.

There haven't been as many incidents of whitewashing characters in the last 5+ years, but let's look at one of the most recent prominent ones that I can think of... The Ancient One from Doctor Strange, played by Tilda Swinton, a white woman, in the film, but in the comics is an Asian man. They changed the character in the films to avoid pissing off China, since The Ancient One is Tibetan.

And a lot of people very rightly criticized Marvel for doing this. It was cowardly, and the change was only made so they could release the film in China and make more money.

I happen to love Tilda as an actor and her portrayal of the character is perfectly fine. But I would prefer accuracy to the source material over pandering to a foreign government any day of the week. And I feel the same way about pandering to social activist groups.

My only point is... let's be consistent. You can't insist race is important when it's a non-white character but that their race never mattered when we're talking about a white character.

I will be seeing Mutant Mayhem opening weekend and I'm not going to decide in advance that I don't like this version of April solely based on the ethnicity change, and I never do that, but it will always be one mark that I refuse say doesn't matter, particularly when there is an ongoing trend in mass media of recasting ginger characters as PoC, it's become so prominent at this point that anyone hand-waving it is doing so in bad faith IMO.

I said this exact thing to a point several days back and BOOM over everyone's heads. Truly selective attention here.

Fact is that white people are the only race treated as "empty vessels" by the racist pigs of other races. "Throw some color in there!" "Let's get some color on that!" All racism.

As if being white is lacking or empty of "identity". :trolleye:

[Cowabung-Gal]

Also i'm really not understanding why a fat person can't be a good role model. I'm kind of confused, is a skinny person a better role model than a fat person? I feel like it has no bearing. Like asking if a black person is a better role model than a white person?

Why is skinny better than fat? Well, you’re carrying around less weight, for one, which means your feet aren’t straining as much. Your risk of heart disease, diabetes, and even colon and stomach cancer goes down greatly. When you’re healthy, you’re a lot happier and you feel a lot better. You are most likely to live longer as a thin person than a fat person. Kids should be encouraged to stay healthy. That’s part of the reason why I hate Steven Universe; the chubby protagonist once made this heart attack on a plate:

https://www.cartooncuisine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Together_Breakfast_Steven_Universe_FI.jpg

Plus Steven was a whiny little wuss. Not a good role model for kids, IMO.

(I know the Turtles are total gluttons for pizza, but at least they balance that diet with a LOT of exercise, and it shows)

Not saying that April has to be smoking hot, but at least make her fit and attractive, black or white.

Also: “Like asking if a black person is a better role model than a white person?” Quit twisting our words. That’s deceptive and disingenuous.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Why is skinny better than fat? Well, you’re carrying around less weight, for one, which means your feet aren’t straining as much. Your risk of heart disease, diabetes, and even colon and stomach cancer goes down greatly. When you’re healthy, you’re a lot happier and you feel a lot better. You are most likely to live longer as a thin person than a fat person. Kids should be encouraged to stay healthy. That’s part of the reason why I hate Steven Universe; the chubby protagonist once made this heart attack on a plate:

https://www.cartooncuisine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Together_Breakfast_Steven_Universe_FI.jpg

Plus Steven was a whiny little wuss. Not a good role model for kids, IMO.

(I know the Turtles are total gluttons for pizza, but at least they balance that diet with a LOT of exercise, and it shows)

Not saying that April has to be smoking hot, but at least make her fit and attractive, black or white.

Also: “Like asking if a black person is a better role model than a white person?” Quit twisting our words. That’s deceptive and disingenuous.

None of the things you said make it so a person can’t be a good role model.

I’m sorry, this is a deranged comment. I’ve never watched Steven universe but you hate it because he ate a plate of pancakes? You known that’s like, not even a special plate at ihop right?

Just so you know, almost all cartoon characters are shown eating comically large portions of food at some point. It’s a cartoon. To make kids laugh.

I feel like this is the weirdest tangent.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

Why is skinny better than fat? Well, you’re carrying around less weight, for one, which means your feet aren’t straining as much. Your risk of heart disease, diabetes, and even colon and stomach cancer goes down greatly. When you’re healthy, you’re a lot happier and you feel a lot better. You are most likely to live longer as a thin person than a fat person. Kids should be encouraged to stay healthy. That’s part of the reason why I hate Steven Universe; the chubby protagonist once made this heart attack on a plate:

https://www.cartooncuisine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Together_Breakfast_Steven_Universe_FI.jpg

Plus Steven was a whiny little wuss. Not a good role model for kids, IMO.

(I know the Turtles are total gluttons for pizza, but at least they balance that diet with a LOT of exercise, and it shows)

Not saying that April has to be smoking hot, but at least make her fit and attractive, black or white.

Also: “Like asking if a black person is a better role model than a white person?” Quit twisting our words. That’s deceptive and disingenuous.

https://thumbnails.cbsig.net/_x/w1200/CBS_Production_Entertainment_VMS/2020/10/18/1808606275671/NICKELODEON_HEYARNOLD_037_370613_1920x1080.jpg

Ahhh!

[Cowabung-Gal]

None of the things you said make it so a person can’t be a good role model.

I’m sorry, this is a deranged comment. I’ve never watched Steven universe but you hate it because he ate a plate of pancakes? You known that’s like, not even a special plate at ihop right?

Just so you know, almost all cartoon characters are shown eating comically large portions of food at some point. It’s a cartoon. To make kids laugh.

Well, you do have a point: being healthy is not the sole quality of being a good role model, as fit people can be total a**holes too. But still, a healthy fit hero has more positive effect on kids than a fat hero who can barely go up the stairs.
https://www.alive.com/lifestyle/be-a-fitness-role-model-for-your-childrens-future-health/

I hate Steven Universe because it’s not a cartoon meant to “make kids laugh”. It’s cringe-inducing SJW propaganda full of boring bad songs and crybaby Tumblr characters who like to “fuse” with each other like a bunch of w**res:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/936/310/927.gif

The main protagonist was a fat crybaby girly-boy who ate a ton of unhealthy snacks. Even my little girl self would’ve been like, “What is wrong with that kid? I think I prefer Ash Ketchum, or even Misty of all people.”

Most of the time the characters were talking about their feelings and crying instead of doing silly stuff and making jokes, you know, like a cartoon. Steven Universe was more like one of those anti-bullying shows you’d watch at school, or those after-school specials that used to air on ABC

Spongebob Squarepants (classic not modern), Ed, Edd, n’ Eddy, Tiny Toon Adventures, those were cartoons that made kids laugh. Not that garbage.

PS: That Hey Arnold episode actually showed the horrors of eating contests. At the end, Arnold even said, “I don’t want to hear the word ‘food’ again”. Also, do you recall the episode where Arnold helps Harold lose weight?

[Coola Yagami]

I feel like kids don’t really care/pay attention unless it’s like “oh that person is cool and looks like I look!”

Stupid kids maybe.

[IndigoErth]

There's plenty of other things outside of the topic of weight and health that an overweight character could be a good role model for so long as a show isn't using that character for fat jokes.

This new April, from the short handful of seconds we've seen, already comes across as bright, inquisitive, and brave to openly meet these inhuman strangers in order to collect whatever info she seems to be gathering.

Additionally, an overweight or otherwise unhealthy character could also be used as a role model on making choices to help try to change that situation and get healthier. Modeling self acceptance is fine if they're doing it to show a character is not a bad person for having a weight issue, but is capable of realizing it isn't healthy and can develop the will and confidence to believe they can improve on it. Rather than preaching hopelessness just by shaming that character for it instead.

Now, fat joke humor of an overweight character too often pigging out on food and this is supposed to be funny for some reason... yeah, that's not so great.

[Warhorse]

It’s crazy to see how long this debate has been going on when it’s so obviously settled.

April was originally white. She got a perm.

However, it doesn’t matter if a different version of her is black.

Stop being racist guys.

How is it being racist when people don't want to see race swapping? I don't much care when they change the gender of someone either. If anything, the ones in control of the show who decide to race or gender swap are the ones being racist or sexist because it shows they are too lazy to make a new character so they can have a more diverse show. And you know if it were reversed (say, they have Charlize Theron or Natalie Portman to play the new Storm) there would probably be riots in the streets.

[Warhorse]

They could've just used Angel

^This. The TMNT have never had a problem with introducing fresh new characters before. The first live action movies had Danny and Keno, the cartoons introduced Irma, Zac and like you said, Angel. Why not create a new character for this version so it has it's own signature move besides hijacking an already existing character.

[Bahamut810]

Actually racism is - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

This is easy then. There is no prejudice, discrimination or antagonism against anyone on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. There is antagonism due to the actions of a person changing a character. It has nothing to do with their racial group at all.

Trying to paint someone as racist for this is blatant stretching...and making the word mean less and less. At this point in this current push in our society, I can never believe someone who demands that something is racist or sexist or some sort of phobe because of how much wolf has been called.

[IMJ]

This is easy then. There is no prejudice, discrimination or antagonism against anyone on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. There is antagonism due to the actions of a person changing a character. It has nothing to do with their racial group at all.

Trying to paint someone as racist for this is blatant stretching...and making the word mean less and less. At this point in this current push in our society, I can never believe someone who demands that something is racist or sexist or some sort of phobe because of how much wolf has been called.

This is exactly true.

Besides, at this point it's a well known fact that fools and virtue-signalers simply call anyone a racist for standing their ground against being overran in pop culture. At this point? You call me a racist because I don't want race-swaps in my beloved material, then fine - I accept. You can still go f off, and I'm still not supporting it. "Yeah... bbb but ya ya ya you're a RACIST!" Okay fine. Changes nothing other than the fact that you've now drawn battle lines against me in anonymity on the internet. Still not giving it a dollar.

Race swapping characters in pop culture is racism because white characters are being targeted and changed as-if they have no identity and white audiences are being shamed if they dislike it. The real racists are the guys in this thread calling other people racists and defending deleting or overwriting white people.

And this example is yet even more logically-contiguous evidence that they are disingenuous liars. Don't believe them. Don't take their arguments "on their own merit". It's a lie.

[Sir5R]

This is exactly true.

Besides, at this point it's a well known fact that fools and virtue-signalers simply call anyone a racist for standing their ground against being overran in pop culture. At this point? You call me a racist because I don't want race-swaps in my beloved material, then fine - I accept. You can still go f off, and I'm still not supporting it. "Yeah... bbb but ya ya ya you're a RACIST!" Okay fine. Changes nothing other than the fact that you've now drawn battle lines against me in anonymity on the internet. Still not giving it a dollar.

Race swapping characters in pop culture is racism because white characters are being targeted and changed as-if they have no identity and white audiences are being shamed if they dislike it. The real racists are the guys in this thread calling other people racists and defending deleting or overwriting white people.

And this example is yet even more logically-contiguous evidence that they are disingenuous liars. Don't believe them. Don't take their arguments "on their own merit". It's a lie.

<insert standing ovation gif here>

[CyberCubed]

The fact that this thread has over 700+ replies shows how controversial the topic of black April is. Why would a thread about "black" April have 700+ comments when a thread about "white" April would probably barely get 20?

It really makes you think.

[IndigoErth]

It does make me think... It makes me think people are bored and too eager to engage in negative, controversial, or conspiratorial topics like usual these days.

Go ahead, just make a new thread on some fun little topic that isn't likely to become heated and see how few care to respond. Many have lost much taste for better things or having a sense of humor these days. Not just saying here, but seems to be the general tone of the internet anymore.

[Sumac]

I actually did not know that black panther was not in any way related to the party. They were made in literally the same year, (the character even before which is interesting) but if you think the party and marvel deciding to make a black character such as him weren't born from the same racial tensions/issues I don't know what to tell you.
The character was created, because, of racial tensions, yes. I've never denied that. However, he was not named after BP group.

Of course I care about the characters, I'm on a ninja turtle forum. We are probably the most die hard of die hard fans, but no I don't care if she is black. I care if she is written well.
Hm...

You are right, taking a character changing her race and saying "Hey, that's good enough for you right minority?" IS insulting. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that just because they do doesn't mean it is.
Well, at least here we are on the same page.

I literally don't know almost anything X-men (Storm) and I assumed bishop was also x-men. Sorry i'm not as die hard as you are.
I am not into X-Men, I just watched few movies and cartoon.
And I am surprised that you don't know who Storm is, as she is the most prominent Black (female) character in the Marvel and appeared in pretty much every X-Men project since her creation (cartoons, movies, video games).
Than what was the point asking for examples of characters, if you don't know, about them?

Start a thread about Jackie Chan and i'll be sure to chime in on how for the vast majority of people "Asians" are all the same and that is ****ed up. Just like a lot people think all hispanic people are mexican. All I can go on is what I see. What I see are these forums and random people yelling that making the character black will ruin her, which I think is dumb and reductive.
I am not interested in starting this crap.
I will participate in other discussions, but kickstarting them is not my thing.
Also, people being gung-ho about April is, because, it is much more visible change.

To summarize, hating the character design just because she is black, is racist. I mean by definition.
Most people don't hate her because, she is Black, they hate that character was changed, which makes sense.
Though, I do suspect reaction would have been less pronounced, if she was made into Asian or Latina.

[Coola Yagami]

Most people don't hate her because, she is Black, they hate that character was changed, which makes sense.
Though, I do suspect reaction would have been less pronounced, if she was made into Asian or Latina.

Ehhh not sure I want a Latina April and I say this as a Latino. Plus it opens the door to them trying to slip the word 'Latinx' in there.

Also if they made April Asian and just do happen to make her fight, it would also sent the message that they couldn't make her use martial arts without making her Asian.

Just keep her as a redhead white adult woman.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, I'm Latino myself and I never wished her to be Latino. Same with when Kyle Rayner in the Green Lantern books became one. And then the writers forgot that happened and he became one again.

[CyberCubed]

I find it funny when people say they want a character to be "Latina," they basically want her to be some ambiguous spanish character.

Aren't there like...15 spanish countries in the world? Notice how they never say if they want a character to be Puerto Rican, or Mexican, or from Argentia, Chile, etc. It's just generic "latina."

Isn't even more racist to jumble all the different spanish countries origins into one? It's like when shows introduce "Native American" characters when there were a whole bunch of different Native American tribes and they just jumble them all into together.

[HotJuicyBurgers]

I am not into X-Men, I just watched few movies and cartoon.
And I am surprised that you don't know who Storm is, as she is the most prominent Black (female) character in the Marvel and appeared in pretty much every X-Men project since her creation (cartoons, movies, video games).
Than what was the point asking for examples of characters, if you don't know, about them?


I’m familiar with storm, but I meant more how is she a relevant example? Was she race swapped? If she was I wasn’t aware, that’s what I meant, sorry if I wasn’t clear

[Coola Yagami]

I’m familiar with storm, but I meant more how is she a relevant example? Was she race swapped? If she was I wasn’t aware, that’s what I meant, sorry if I wasn’t clear

She wasn't race swapped, it's just the point that if she was, people would lose their ****.

It's just the double standard of it all. Raceswap a white character and we're supposed to just suck it up. Raceswap a black character and you'll have an angry mob calling for the job of whoever's responsibile.

[Andrew NDB]

I find it funny when people say they want a character to be "Latina," they basically want her to be some ambiguous spanish character.

Aren't there like...15 spanish countries in the world? Notice how they never say if they want a character to be Puerto Rican, or Mexican, or from Argentia, Chile, etc. It's just generic "latina."

Isn't even more racist to jumble all the different spanish countries origins into one? It's like when shows introduce "Native American" characters when there were a whole bunch of different Native American tribes and they just jumble them all into together.

I don't think it's that racist. It'd be like getting upset that someone calls you "an American" instead of "an Oregonian" because you come from the state of Oregon.

[Sir5R]

Yeah, I'm Latino myself and I never wished her to be Latino. Same with when Kyle Rayner in the Green Lantern books became one. And then the writers forgot that happened and he became one again.

Kyle's change wasn't so much a change as clarification as his origin, never that I recall, was previously discussed. Unless I just forgot. I didn't care any at all about it because it just added further bio-data to who Kyle was supposed to be vs always White until Rise April...

[Sir5R]

She wasn't race swapped, it's just the point that if she was, people would lose their ****.

It's just the double standard of it all. Raceswap a white character and we're supposed to just suck it up. Raceswap a black character and you'll have an angry mob calling for the job of whoever's responsibile.

Yeah, this exactly. Just shut up and let us color/race wash or erase all white characters you know & love while we replace them with characters of the same name & personalities but people of color instead.... lazy pandering at best. Ha.

[TurtleManiac]

Ehhh not sure I want a Latina April and I say this as a Latino. Plus it opens the door to them trying to slip the word 'Latinx' in there.

Also if they made April Asian and just do happen to make her fight, it would also sent the message that they couldn't make her use martial arts without making her Asian.

Just keep her as a redhead white adult woman.

Yeah, I'm Latino myself and I never wished her to be Latino. Same with when Kyle Rayner in the Green Lantern books became one. And then the writers forgot that happened and he became one again.

Agreed. As an actual Hispanic/Latino, not just someone who “identifies as”, I am offended by the new made up term “Latinx”. It’s an insult to our culture and another failed attempt at trying to convince people there is more than 2 genders or lecture about “toxic masculinity”. However I’ve never seen or heard anyone actually using that term in real life, only a few woke celebs on TV, it probably started as some Twitter hashtag by some blue hair liberal.

I never wished for an existing character to be race-swapped or gender-swapped so I feel “represented”. If anything, would be way better to make an all new character for that.

But hey at least we got some Spanish representation from Mikey saying things like “holy guacamole” or “hey amigos” or “hey hermano”, “compadres” etc lol Mikey actually used alot of Spanish words in the ‘87 cartoon, but now would probably be consider offensive to the “Latinx” and their handlers.

I wonder what ethnicity Vernon was in the ‘87 cartoon cause alot of times they would draw him more tan.

I find it funny when people say they want a character to be "Latina," they basically want her to be some ambiguous spanish character.

Aren't there like...15 spanish countries in the world? Notice how they never say if they want a character to be Puerto Rican, or Mexican, or from Argentia, Chile, etc. It's just generic "latina."

Isn't even more racist to jumble all the different spanish countries origins into one? It's like when shows introduce "Native American" characters when there were a whole bunch of different Native American tribes and they just jumble them all into together.

I don’t think it’s racist. Same way they generalize “White people” from different countries, or “Black people” from different countries, or “Asians”, “Middle Eastern” etc. I’m fine with “Latinos/Latinas”, but those fringe groups trying to change it to “Latinx” are the racists. But not sure how it works with Spain actually being in Europe.

[Warhorse]

She wasn't race swapped, it's just the point that if she was, people would lose their ****.

It's just the double standard of it all. Raceswap a white character and we're supposed to just suck it up. Raceswap a black character and you'll have an angry mob calling for the job of whoever's responsibile.

A coworker of mine who is Black pointed out something I hadn't thought of. He considers all these studios who are race swapping characters, specifically the Black characters from White, he thinks it's actually a form of racism because he's like, they are just putting a Black face on a white character, and Black face has become a big no no in the Black community now.

[Cowabung-Gal]

A coworker of mine who is Black pointed out something I hadn't thought of. He considers all these studios who are race swapping characters, specifically the Black characters from White, he thinks it's actually a form of racism because he's like, they are just putting a Black face on a white character, and Black face has become a big no no in the Black community now.

That’s what I said. At least once.

I hear black fans voice their displeasure over raceswapping all the time, but for some reason the “progressive” white creators continue to ignore them, even though they claim that they want to give all black people a voice. A character doesn’t have to look exactly like you for you to see yourself in them. I can relate to Peter Parker even though I don’t have a d*** and I’m more fat than muscles. In fact, that was Stan Lee’s intention: to make Spider-Man the most relatable superhero so that anyone can see themselves behind that mask. Most black people aren’t that shallow, and giving traditionally white characters a black makeover is no better than the “blackface” performances that were done by white people. It’s disingenuous, lazy, and insulting.

But that’s just my “white fragility” showing, right? :roll:

[Warhorse]

That’s what I said. At least once.



But that’s just my “white fragility” showing, right? :roll:

In my neck of the woods, the only one that seems to be all for this stuff is a white girl who is one of them virtue signalers.

[Coola Yagami]

But hey at least we got some Spanish representation from Mikey saying things like “holy guacamole” or “hey amigos” or “hey hermano”, “compadres” etc lol Mikey actually used alot of Spanish words in the ‘87 cartoon, but now would probably be consider offensive to the “Latinx” and their handlers.



I remember getting a kick out of Mikey using Spanish words. I think my favorite was when he held Casey back and was like 'hold on, this is a mucho delicado situation'. But I never 'needed' Mikey to actually be Latino (however that would work).

I also remember them trying to slip the word 'Filipinx' a bit ago and for the most part the Filipinos put the kabosh on that real quick.

[Warhorse]

The really funny thing, when I was a kid and the music video "Hold On" from En Vogue came out, I was thinking Cindy Herron would have made a good April because in my mind, she kind of looked like her from the 80's toon with the hair style she had in the music video. I still think she could have pulled it off. :P

[Sumac]

A coworker of mine who is Black pointed out something I hadn't thought of. He considers all these studios who are race swapping characters, specifically the Black characters from White, he thinks it's actually a form of racism because he's like, they are just putting a Black face on a white character, and Black face has become a big no no in the Black community now.
My thoughts precisely.

[IMJ]

A coworker of mine who is Black pointed out something I hadn't thought of. He considers all these studios who are race swapping characters, specifically the Black characters from White, he thinks it's actually a form of racism because he's like, they are just putting a Black face on a white character, and Black face has become a big no no in the Black community now.

This is what I've been saying for a long time. It's a racist action in every single way from any direction you look at it -

-Race-swaps are racist against whites because you are removing, overwriting and eliminating them in favor of another race.
-Race-swaps are racist against blacks because it's basically saying outright that they have nothing of their own except for the sloppy seconds of being put into the empty silhouette of a white person's character.

No amount of logic, or depth of thought, or reality of the situation will bring these people around to understanding. They are addicted to their own virtue and virtue-signaling. Just bankrupt them.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly, then whenever they try to create new characters.... these groups don't support them. Virtue signaling doesn't buy tickets.

And they just can't make new characters without focusing strongly on their race and sexuality. Spawn didn't bore people with 'black issues', it dove head first into the hellspawn and super powers concept.

[TurtleManiac]

I remember getting a kick out of Mikey using Spanish words. I think my favorite was when he held Casey back and was like 'hold on, this is a mucho delicado situation'. But I never 'needed' Mikey to actually be Latino (however that would work).

I also remember them trying to slip the word 'Filipinx' a bit ago and for the most part the Filipinos put the kabosh on that real quick.

Yeah, Mikey was pretty fluent in Spanish :lol: He would even speak full sentences sometimes I can’t remember which episode but I remember him saying “con mucho gusto amigo” and things like that. And of course they had the “Bandito Bashin’ Mike” toy later on, they had alot of multicultural representation in the toy line, which the woke would probably denounce as offensive today. Like that Chief Leo figure, it would offend someone as some sports teams are no longer allowed to be called “Chiefs” or “Indians”. The woke are so racist they got “Aunt Jemima” removed from the syrup bottle and I heard that the family is actually upset about this, erasing her legacy, she’s history. Just can’t win with the woke crowd.

This is what I've been saying for a long time. It's a racist action in every single way from any direction you look at it -

-Race-swaps are racist against whites because you are removing, overwriting and eliminating them in favor of another race.
-Race-swaps are racist against blacks because it's basically saying outright that they have nothing of their own except for the sloppy seconds of being put into the empty silhouette of a white person's character.

No amount of logic, or depth of thought, or reality of the situation will bring these people around to understanding. They are addicted to their own virtue and virtue-signaling. Just bankrupt them.

This exactly, 100%. It is racist the way they’re doing it. If they truly cared about diversity, they would be adding a new Black character, not eliminating a White character in exchange for a Black character. Where’s the diversity? It’s not like there’s a whole lot of human characters in TMNT to begin with. It is mostly mutants. So the token human ally to the turtles who just happened to be White for nearly 40 years, has been eliminated, and replaced with a Black version of the character. That’s racist. Could have just added a new Black character, or any race, male or female, and had that character work alongside April and the turtles. But no, they have to race bait so they can feel good about themselves calling others “racist”.

Not my April.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, it's pointless. If you explain that to them they'll just handwave you away with some kind of catty, "oh honey/sweetie/darling, there's no such thing as racism against white people! lol!" And if it's a dude saying it they suddenly become feminine while they do.

[IndigoErth]

Could have just added a new Black character, or any race, male or female, and had that character work alongside April and the turtles.
Thanks, if April was an adult reporter again, now I want 2023 April to be a journalism major interning as April's assistant, and I'm not gonna get it.

[CyberCubed]

April being a schoolteacher is also out of character, now they just plop her into any random job they want. They might as well make her a cop in the next version too.

[neatoman]

April being a schoolteacher is also out of character, now they just plop her into any random job they want.

Arguably, so is making her a reporter.

They might as well make her a cop in the next version too.

... You know... I think that would work better than a reporter, now that I think about it.

[Sabacooza]

Yeah, Mikey was pretty fluent in Spanish :lol: He would even speak full sentences sometimes I can’t remember which episode but I remember him saying “con mucho gusto amigo” and things like that. And of course they had the “Bandito Bashin’ Mike” toy later on, they had alot of multicultural representation in the toy line, which the woke would probably denounce as offensive today. Like that Chief Leo figure, it would offend someone as some sports teams are no longer allowed to be called “Chiefs” or “Indians”. The woke are so racist they got “Aunt Jemima” removed from the syrup bottle and I heard that the family is actually upset about this, erasing her legacy, she’s history. Just can’t win with the woke crowd.



This exactly, 100%. It is racist the way they’re doing it. If they truly cared about diversity, they would be adding a new Black character, not eliminating a White character in exchange for a Black character. Where’s the diversity? It’s not like there’s a whole lot of human characters in TMNT to begin with. It is mostly mutants. So the token human ally to the turtles who just happened to be White for nearly 40 years, has been eliminated, and replaced with a Black version of the character. That’s racist. Could have just added a new Black character, or any race, male or female, and had that character work alongside April and the turtles. But no, they have to race bait so they can feel good about themselves calling others “racist”.

Not my April.Or Why couldn't they have just added Carter from the red sky series? He was black.

[neatoman]

Or Why couldn't they have just added Carter from the red sky series? He was black.

Because he sucks as a character, he's really bland and his reason for sticking around seems a bit too thin, not to mention that his mutant design is absurd. And unlike most major Fred Wolf characters that stick around despite not actually being all that interesting, there really isn't any nostalgia saving him from fading into obscurity, he showed up when the show had already been dying for like three years and was doing some desperate changes to draw in a new audience, so he's not really a character people remember from their childhood.