Gotham

[MikeandRaph87]

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Try it now. I could not get it to cooperate the first attempt.

[Storm Eagle]

MH36zMuE42c

Try it now. I could not get it to cooperate the first attempt.

It works, but I already saw it in the episode.

[MikeandRaph87]

I put it in spoiler as I would for any movie or issue that is fresh released. That was the one disappointment of the episode even if I could see it coming.

[MikeandRaph87]

Gotham is set to adapt Zero Year, a New 52 storyline.

http://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/05/21/gotham-season-5-batman-zero-year-dc-comic/

I was hoping for some wrapping up, but this is just adding.

[Storm Eagle]

I looked up information on these villains from the Batman series called Mother and Orphan. I've never heard of them before. So Orphan is this girl who doesn't speak, and communicates through bodily gestures and drawings. That's what Martine did. So I wonder if he'll be Gotham's version of Orphan, even though he's a boy. Even when I saw the episode for the first time, I somehow thought that might be him.

[MikeandRaph87]

I looked up information on these villains from the Batman series called Mother and Orphan. I've never heard of them before. So Orphan is this girl who doesn't speak, and communicates through bodily gestures and drawings. That's what Martine did. So I wonder if he'll be Gotham's version of Orphan, even though he's a boy. Even when I saw the episode for the first time, I somehow thought that might be him.

Orphan is Cassandra Cain, the mute daughter of elite martial artist Lady Shiva and assassin David Caine. She was the srcond Batgirl for a decade from No Man's Land to Battle for the Cowl. Mother, I believe is Lady Shiva.

[Storm Eagle]

Orphan is Cassandra Cain, the mute daughter of elite martial artist Lady Shiva and assassin David Caine. She was the srcond Batgirl for a decade from No Man's Land to Battle for the Cowl. Mother, I believe is Lady Shiva.

I'm aware of all of that. I was just thinking that they may go in a different direction with it for Gotham.

[Andrew NDB]

Eugh. It all sounds like 11th hour hot garbage when they should be busy finishing out their... 3rd hour hot mess.

[Andrew NDB]

Just going to leave this here. "Gotham"'s version of Bane.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/gotham-bane.jpg

It looks like the costume fills up with air to make him look buffer?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Just going to leave this here. "Gotham"'s version of Bane.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/gotham-bane.jpg

It looks like the costume fills up with air to make him look buffer?

It's like Darth Vader and Green Day had a hate-fueled affair, and this little guy came along nine months later. :tlol:

[Autbot_Benz]

Just going to leave this here. "Gotham"'s version of Bane.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/gotham-bane.jpg

It looks like the costume fills up with air to make him look buffer?

Why is it DC Fails at getting Bane Correctly. First Batman and Robin than Dark Knight Rises and now this

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Why is it DC Fails at getting Bane Correctly. First Batman and Robin than Dark Knight Rises and now this

The funny thing is, The Dark Knight Rises has been the most accurate live-action portrayal to date.

And the face/mask is 100% wrong. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

The funny thing is, The Dark Knight Rises has been the most accurate live-action portrayal to date.

And the face/mask is 100% wrong. :tlol:

And the race. It's not even close.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And the race. It's not even close.

And yet, it's still leagues better than Batman & Robin.

And from what little we've seen, I think it's a safe bet "Gothamville" isn't gonna do much better. :tlol:

[MikeandRaph87]

Bane is not Antonio Diego either, his father Edmound Durrance ( King Snake) is Bane. I suppose the two characters are being folded into one?

[Andrew NDB]

Bane is not Antonio Diego either, his father Edmound Durrance ( King Snake) is Bane. I suppose the two characters are being folded into one?

Who even cares, at this point? They don't. They've determined the sum of Bane is just Man in Mask -- and it could be anyone -- plus possibly venom.

[MikeandRaph87]

Gotham is so messed up and trying hard to sell "dark" its campy. That is the same thing that happened with Batman Returns which I still don't care for. You cannot force it, it has to be natural. Ah well, ten episodes to go to reach 100 and pull the plug.

[Storm Eagle]

Gotham is so messed up and trying hard to sell "dark" its campy. That is the same thing that happened with Batman Returns which I still don't care for. You cannot force it, it has to be natural. Ah well, ten episodes to go to reach 100 and pull the plug.

Then people can stop crying about a show they don't even watch. What's the goal with that anyway?

[MikeandRaph87]

Then people can stop crying about a show they don't even watch. What's the goal with that anyway?

It might have something to do with syndication package. I know episode counts very such as it once was 65 episodes like with the Nick shows but WB! cartoons had a 52 count to be met. Why not go longer? Maybe its a streaming thing which wants 100 episodes or more? Netflix did make a deal with the show to stream it before it even aired so I am sure that had something to do with it getting the shortened extra season and one one of only two properties that Fox does not outright own.

Gotham for me is the show I love to hate. It frustrates me so, but other wacky things like the Theo Galavan angle was really good.

[Autbot_Benz]

Gotham is terrible its like taking a dump on the batman mythos and throwing it in a blender

[Leo656]

Then people can stop crying about a show they don't even watch. What's the goal with that anyway?

The "goal" is to let the Powers-That-Be know in no uncertain terms how and to what degree they f*cked up, so that they can - in theory - correct and do better next time.

I mean, it rarely works, because they all have the same attitude of, "Well if you nerds knew anything then YOU'D be making these shows and not me, wouldn't you?", but in theory, if they don't know what's wrong they can never do better.

"It's not for you, so don't watch it" is horse sh*t. Every fan of any property has a voice, and if they don't feel represented they have every right to say, "I'm not happy with what you've given me, but THIS is what I'd be interested in." If you don't ask, you never get. If you wait passively on the sidelines for someone to come ASK you what you want, you'll be waiting forever.

I know a lot of people are infuriated about this show existing when someone could, in theory, actually be putting the resources towards an actual Batman show, and that's absolutely valid. Hopefully, if/when they get to that point, it won't be the same people responsible for this show.

[Autbot_Benz]

Batman should have been on the CW shows already but instead we are getting probably sjw batwoman instead

[Storm Eagle]

The "goal" is to let the Powers-That-Be know in no uncertain terms how and to what degree they f*cked up, so that they can - in theory - correct and do better next time.

I mean, it rarely works, because they all have the same attitude of, "Well if you nerds knew anything then YOU'D be making these shows and not me, wouldn't you?", but in theory, if they don't know what's wrong they can never do better.

"It's not for you, so don't watch it" is horse sh*t. Every fan of any property has a voice, and if they don't feel represented they have every right to say, "I'm not happy with what you've given me, but THIS is what I'd be interested in." If you don't ask, you never get. If you wait passively on the sidelines for someone to come ASK you what you want, you'll be waiting forever.

I know a lot of people are infuriated about this show existing when someone could, in theory, actually be putting the resources towards an actual Batman show, and that's absolutely valid. Hopefully, if/when they get to that point, it won't be the same people responsible for this show.

I don't mind admitting Gotham's flaws although unfortunately, I probably don't notice many of them since I'm not a hardcore Batman fan like the ones the show seems to tick off. The show did start off interesting, and I've just been curious to see how it all plays out. However, even if I flat-out hated the show (or any show or anyTHING for that matter), I don't see the point in bringing things down for others. We get it. It's not your thing.

[Leo656]

Ahhh, the old "Don't harsh my buzz" refrain. Also, sadly, horse sh*t. :lol:

My whole life I've had people telling me that most things I like are garbage, often to my face. I'm then told to either A. Get thicker skin, or B. Forfeit my own opinions and simply like what everyone else likes, because "obviously Consensus is Always Correct."

I am "not allowed" to use the "Don't harsh my buzz" reply, because the things I like are not popular. Thus, my opinions are invalid anyway, and I'm to be ignored for not liking what everyone else likes, because "clearly" I'm an idiot, rather than someone who thinks for themselves.

SO, since it's selective as f*ck, I dismiss the "Don't harsh my buzz" defense, and will turn it around on those people and advise them to "get thicker skin". If a person is okay with sharing their opinions openly in a public forum, they'd best be okay with the fact that some people are going to publicly disagree with them, and they might even give reasons why.

That's supposed to be okay. It's not - everyone really wants an echo chamber rather than any real discussion - but it's supposed to be.

[Storm Eagle]

Ahhh, the old "Don't harsh my buzz" refrain. Also, sadly, horse sh*t. :lol:

My whole life I've had people telling me that most things I like are garbage, often to my face.

Who hasn't? When one person does it to me just once, I accept it and just move on. It's when one person keeps beating me over the head with it as though I didn't get the point the first time that I might tell them to f*ck off.

[Leo656]

Well, that's understandable. I agree, at some point if a person is merely repeating themselves it may be best to either figure out something new to say, or drop the conversation altogether.

They don't HAVE to, is all I'm saying. But I hear you.

[Sumac]

This version of Bane looks like extremely cheap villain from the middle of the 80-s.
What with the horrid padded jacket? And why does he have plate made from motherboard on his chest?

Eugh.

[Candy Kappa]

Ban looks absolutely ridiculous, I guess it's a early prototype of how the Venom is injected into him? Like, I wouldn't mind a villain looking that hilarious, but why do it to Bane. Poor dude just can't catch a break in live-action despite being one of the easier designs to translate; luchadore with some hoses.

But it'll probably be a fun arc


Batman should have been on the CW shows already but instead we are getting probably sjw batwoman instead

Isn't it superfluous to call Batwoman "saw Batwoman", I mean, the very nature of Suoerheros are social justice. It's like calling a bo for "bo staff".

[Sumac]

Disingenuous argument.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yes, the show is Goth Ham. It is out of its way to enforce the dark aspect and hammy in execution.

[TurtleTitan97]

That's a pretty crappy looking Bane.

[Autbot_Benz]

Isn't it superfluous to call Batwoman "saw Batwoman", I mean, the very nature of Suoerheros are social justice. It's like calling a bo for "bo staff".

no cause Superheros don't whine on twitter about everything that offends them and causing arguments if you don't agree with them like SJW's do :lol:

[MikeandRaph87]

https://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/10/29/gotham-season-5-extra-episodes-premiere-date-fox/

The show Batfans love to hate got a 2 episode expansion to 12 episodes while it debuts on January 12th.

[Storm Eagle]

https://comicbook.com/dc/amp/2018/10/29/gotham-season-5-extra-episodes-premiere-date-fox/

The show Batfans love to hate got a 2 episode expansion to 12 episodes while it debuts on January 12th.

January 3rd actually. So it'll still be showing on Thursdays.

[MikeandRaph87]

January 3rd actually. So it'll still be showing on Thursdays.

Nust going by what the article originally said.

This season is going to fill a bit cramped.

[MikeandRaph87]

h9_QOD8Ec98
Season 5 full trailer.

Selena was killed and brought back by Hugo Strange? I must have missed something...

I know Riddler and Leslie Thomkins killed each other and are dusted off by Hugo, but Selina?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, Hugo's a busy guy. Twisted, but at least he knows how to keep himself occupied. Happy to sse we'll be getting two more episodes before it all ends. I love this show's versions of Cobblepot and Nigma. Selina, too. And probably my favorite LA Joker to date.

[sdp]

Watched the fourth season of gotham and had a blast, it gets so many characters right, some not so much and other not but overall I think it has a better track record than other batman media. Not all their story arcs are winners but at least they don't drag one long ass story arc for 22 episodes like the CW shows. I like that the status quo changes and while it has become smallville in the sense that all these things that shouldn't happen without Batman have already happened I can live with that. The show definitely had a lot of potential for more seasons but let's see how the final season will fare to give it a send off.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.cbr.com/gotham-bane-origin-nyssa-al-ghul/

Bane is eternally a lackey in other media. Its hard for fans to see him past one trick pony and a huge not just physical threat if a woman is behind him over and over again. In the comics after the overly long Knightfall Saga there was Bane of the Demon then he thought he was Bruce Wayne's half-brother thrn had a stint in The Secret Six. I doubt Tom King can help Bane. It's just too many times someone else is behind him. Not against Bane, just cannot understand his threat level.

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.cbr.com/gotham-bane-origin-nyssa-al-ghul/

Bane is eternally a lackey in other media. Its hard for fans to see him past one trick pony and a huge not just physical threat if a woman is behind him over and over again. In the comics after the overly long Knightfall Saga there was Bane of the Demon then he thought he was Bruce Wayne's half-brother thrn had a stint in The Secret Six. I doubt Tom King can help Bane. It's just too many times someone else is behind him. Not against Bane, just cannot understand his threat level.

Hello, what about the 10 issue "Bane: Conquest" maxi-series written and drawn by his creators that just came out? It served to yank him out of that funk.

And who cares what Tom King can do?

[MikeandRaph87]

Hello, what about the 10 issue "Bane: Conquest" maxi-series written and drawn by his creators that just came out? It served to yank him out of that funk.

And who cares what Tom King can do?

I have not read it, probably not heard of it either. Seeing Bane sitting on a throne of bones with Joker, Riddler, and these assorted others did not make him intimidating. I just wondered what he had on the two mentioned above in Batman#50. So maybe he can be redeemed, but Gotham does not help his case.

[Leo656]

Bane forever disappoints me. He's like the only new-ish villain to show up in the Bat-books in the last 25 years who doesn't suck (give or take a Hush, and Dr. Hurt is technically a Very Old Character from some story published in the 1950s), and he's forever botched and mis-written by people who never actually READ "Vengeance of Bane" or "Knightfall". They just assume, "Well he's Big, so OBVIOUSLY he's also Dumb." :roll:

The one guy who should never, EVER be a lackey is Bane. And yet that's all he ever is. For f*ck's sake, in the TellTale video game they stuck him as HARLEY's f*cking lackey. HARLEY!

It's like Jesus, just don't f*cking use Bane. I hate it.

[snake]

The problem with Bane in the hands of retarded comic book writers is that they don’t know what stories to do with him beyond “IT’S BANE, AND HE’S BACK AND ALL HE DOES IS TALK ABOUT HOW HE BROKE BATMAN’S BACK!” and maybe throws rocks at Batman.

That last part actually happened. I’m not kidding.

[Leo656]

:lol: I know, it's pretty funny.

The problem with the Great (and new-ish) villains is the temptation to over-use them. And then it's a short ride to "They're just another Bad Guy".

The Superman comics in the mid-90s had this problem with Cyborg Superman. He was a great choice for a brand-new A+ Bad Guy, but then he showed up two or three times a year until he was teaming up with f*cking TOYMAN. :roll:

The only real solution - which they did in Cyborg Superman's case, eventually - is to just not use the character for 5 years or so, and then have them only show up as an Alpha-level threat. But in the meantime, they've got action figures to sell, so it's really, REALLY hard for them to keep those great toys (characters) in the box for that long. But it's the only way to let them keep any credibility.

Whenever I see Bane in the Suicide Squad or whatever I just shake my damn head. Nobody gets it. He's about as credible as Killer Croc, at this point. Same damn character except one has a skin problem and the other has a luchador fetish.

[snake]

It's really a look at the futility of the comic book industry when Batman and Superman- the most popular, money-generating DC characters- can't get new villains. If they do get a new villain introduced, they're usually either forgotten in a month (Mr. Bloom) or too dumb to ever be used again (H'el).

Seriously, I think the last Batman story that had any impact on the general, accepted Batman canon of "this is an essential story" was the Court of Owls- which wasn't even that good in the first place, and secondly was almost a goddamned decade ago.

[Leo656]

Yeah, it's tough.

Part of the problem is rights and payment, too. The whole "Work-For-Hire" thing. Most writers don't want to bother creating a Great New Character when they're just gonna be forced to sell it to the publisher for peanuts, and never get proper credit or compensation. Might as well save it for the novel or screenplay they'll never end up writing, y'know?

Kinda like how Matt Groening only created The Simpsons because he realized Fox was gonna (theoretically) make billions off of "Life In Hell" and he'd be left with, comparatively, a few sheckles. It all worked out for the best in the end, but his original logic was nonetheless sound.

In a commercial medium like comic books and cartoons where everything is owned by The Corporation, it simply doesn't even pay to put the work in on a Great New Character. So that doesn't help anything.

[snake]

Wow, that's a take I never even thought of. I get where they're coming from, but at the same time I just can't believe that everyone's okay with stagnant characters from the f*cking 40s and 60s that never age and status-quo's that never change.

Even legacy characters aren't really a thing anymore.

[Leo656]

Well I mean, what choice do they have? Over at Archie, the Sonic editors let One Jagoff (Ken Penders) basically create their entire "universe" of characters - Heroes, Villains, NPCs, etc. - and then one day after they had a tiff, he decided that HE owned all of it, sued them... and won (nobody's sure exactly HOW). So they had to reboot the entire series multiple times in a 5-year span to get around the fact that Every Single Thing that had happened in the comic for like 20 real-life years now Didn't Happen, and finally they just threw in the towel and cancelled it.

That's pretty much WHY they can't let the writers have too much control, because it'll inevitably come back to bite them. BUT, since the writers know they're creatively handcuffed, they're not gonna come up with a Great Idea that they're not gonna get compensation or recognition for.

It's a complicated issue with no easy answer.

[snake]

Yeah, the Penders thing was rough. I was invested in Archie Sonic until that happened and the comic slowly turned into nothing-ness.

I think there just needs to be less selfishness on writers parts. You're writing for a brand, yes, but if your stories are good then you'll get recognition for them. Look at Moore, Grant Morison, or (to a MUCH lesser extent) Geoff Johns. Yeah, DC owns their sh*t, but they're still revered for it. Adopt the attitude of furthering the history of legendary characters by creating new and interesting stories rather than writing comics as a side-gig and having zero respect for anything that came before you.

To be fair, this is more of a Marvel problem than a DC problem, but DC still has it's fair share of issues (pun intended?).

[Leo656]

I agree, that can be a factor. Like Dan Jurgens is probably the most ego-absent person to ever write for a major company, and he's created tons of great and memorable characters. He's not a "name" but he's the type of guy who serious fans and people working in the industry all admire for his workmanship. If everyone were like him, there'd be no problem.

As a creative person who's dabbled in some writing myself, though, I fully understand how feelings of "ownership" can come into play. Your characters can feel like your children, and you start to worry about what might happen to them in someone else's hands. It's hard to reconcile that you can work hard to create something, give it very specific characteristics for very specific reasons, craft it just so, and then someone else can totally come along and do whatever they want with it, even if what they do could rightly be considered blasphemous by the standards you originally set forth.

It's like the guys who created the Anarky character; they said that they partly wished they could have kept it creator-owned, because it was a very personal character, but were shot down, and they simply never read any of the stories other people wrote about him because they knew that they'd be totally off the mark from what the character was created to be, and they didn't want to feel obligated to publicly cry "Foul".

It's like watching someone molest your children. So I get it. "Less ego", sure. But that's honestly asking a lot.

[sdp]

Finally watched the final season, with only 12 episodes and being the last one I thought it'd be faster paced but it starts off very slow, generally I did like some of the things that happened but not as good as previous seasons, the No Mans Land and Dark Knight Rises vibes it had didn't work too well bu it's alright. No way people wouldn't know that Bruce Wayne is Batman after all this happened.

I do love the world Gotham made and how it created the batman villains, it did a good job even if it had their own spin. Sure it doesn't work as a prequel to Batman since so much has happened already but it works as its own Batman series.

I'm still missing the last episode but I'll comment on that later, in general I liked the series a lot, it took a way different approach than I thought it should but it worked, even young Bruce since we did see him grow.