Gotham

[Davetello]

I couldn't find a thread for this show. Apologies it there is a topic - perhaps the topics can be merged by a moderator.

So I'm actually quite excited about this. Seeing the origins of young Bruce, Jim Gordon and all of the super-villains etc seems pretty intriguing. A lot of people seem to enjoy Arrow and Fox is a more reputable station than the CW (I think?), so this seems promising. I think 16 episodes for the first season is a nice number too - just a little over the typical cable number, but not too many that it might become composed of endless filler (e.g. 22 eps).

I will certainly be watching. It might be a disaster but it could also turn out very good - I watched the preview show and it seemed pretty appealing. What do you all think of it?

[pharaohyami5000]

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=44773&highlight=gotham

Yeah, the search has found this recent topic from the list. So... use that topic or is it okay to continue discussion here? Some message boards have this hatred of revived topics, so not sure if this board is one of them.

For my thoughts, I'm ready to give this a spin. I like to see the prequel of... the Batman universe. Was going to say DC universe, but I don't know. 1 week and 2 days to go. Let's do it!

[Davetello]

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=44773&highlight=gotham

Yeah, the search has found this recent topic from the list. So... use that topic or is it okay to continue discussion here? Some message boards have this hatred of revived topics, so not sure if this board is one of them.

For my thoughts, I'm ready to give this a spin. I like to see the prequel of... the Batman universe. Was going to say DC universe, but I don't know. 1 week and 2 days to go. Let's do it!

Thanks for looking man. Yes, perhaps we should discuss there. My own personal view is that bumped topics are fine, and they don't seem to be frowned upon here.

Yeah, looks like it will primarily stay with the Batman universe, which I am happy with tbh. If they were to start introducing the JL etc, it would probably become overwhelming as a production. They should keep it relatively simple.

I can't wait for the first episode either. I wish it was on Netflix and was due to be released all at once (I realise the show has signed a deal with Netflix to show each season after it completes airing).

[Leo656]

I'm intrigued but wary. Super-hero-based TV shows are hit-or-miss (although in theory they should be easy). It could easily get corny but at the same time they have a strong cast of characters to play with. It's a weird balancing act; you can show off and play with some of the history of the familiar characters, but at the same time, we know they're not going to fully "become" the characters we know for another decade-plus in storyline, so you have to be careful how you present it. I hated how in Smallville, Clark had already defeated and/or killed off half of his entire rogues gallery before he even put on the costume or finished high school, for example.

Deep down, I'd much prefer a straight-up Batman show, but they'll never do that as long as they make so much money on the movies, so a prequel or a cartoon is as good as we'll get. I'unno, should be good. I'm a little more looking forward to Flash, because again, I prefer more of just a straight super-hero show.

[Davetello]

I know what you mean, but the origin/prequel aspect of it really does appeal to me. Without Batman, these characters might get even more chance to stand in the spotlight. Although I'm aware that a large part of what makes these characters what they are is their relationship to Batman, so perhaps that is a paradoxical way of thinking.

You're right that it is quite strange that superhero TV shows are often of average quality. With so much source material, so few time constraints and a good budget you'd think talented writers, producers etc would be able to make something great. Maybe the cream of the crop just isn't interested in the superhero genre, as far as television is concerned.

I never watched Smallville - I've heard contrasting opinions of it. I'd like to watch the show for myself but 200 odd 40 min episodes is way too much of a commitment. I think the only show I'm willing to commit to at that many eps in the future is The X-Files.

[pharaohyami5000]

Well, Lois and Clark: the Adventures of Superman I remember liking that. Though I have not seen them completely, so that will be something on my long to-(re)watch list. Hopefully Gotham will be on the same level as that. Haven't seen Smallville, Birds of Prey seem unappealing from other people and still wondering whether or not to begin on Agents of SHIELD or Arrow.

I currently completed Breaking Bad (what a marvelous series) and other than waiting for Better Call Saul, and Gotham (might as well), I don't know which live series to begin.

[Davetello]

Well, Lois and Clark: the Adventures of Superman I remember liking that. Though I have not seen them completely, so that will be something on my long to-(re)watch list. Hopefully it will be on he same level as that. Haven't seen Smallville, Birds of Prey seem unappealing from other people and still wondering whether or not to begin on Agents of SHIELD or Arrow.

I currently completed Breaking Bad (what a marvelous series) and other than waiting for Better Call Saul, and Gotham (might as well), I don't know which live series to begin.

I liked Lois and Clark as well. Watched it a lot as a boy and bought the first three seasons a few years ago - pretty sweet. Dean Cain was actually an alright Superman - he was a good looking guy and had plenty of charisma, not a bad actor either. I liked him as Supes.

Couldn't get through more than a couple of eps of AoS or Birds of Prey. I watched the first 6 episodes of Arrow and quite enjoyed it, but it's really just mindless action are. I sort of stopped watching it since other shows were holding my attention at the time.

Breaking Bad is just fantastic, agreed. I watch lots of shows, tbh. The Wire is probably the best of all.

[CyberCubed]

This show gives me bad vibes from the start. Not sure I like the idea of all of Batman's villains being 10-15 years old than him.

[plastroncafe]

While I'm more than curious about this show, I'm still sad it won't just be a televised, "Gotham Central."

[Davetello]

This show gives me bad vibes from the start. Not sure I like the idea of all of Batman's villains being 10-15 years old than him.

I think it could work though - I mean guys like the Riddler, Joker, Penguin are often portrayed as a good generation or two older than Bruce. The likes of Catwoman and Barbara Gordon is a problem, yes.

While I'm more than curious about this show, I'm still sad it won't just be a televised, "Gotham Central."

I actually have those ready to read on my tablet. Looks very appealing.

[plastroncafe]

I actually have those ready to read on my tablet. Looks very appealing.

I'd love to know what you think when you're done. I don't read much DC, but I really loved that series.

[ToTheNines]

While I'm more than curious about this show, I'm still sad it won't just be a televised, "Gotham Central."

I know.... **** was so good. And had Batman in it just enough.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't know if I'll watch this as I don't read comics that much, but it could be interesting for sure. I saw a documentary about it, and it seems like the people behind it are pretty committed to it and what they want to do. I like how it's going to be different in that it stays in the present and follows Bruce's journey to what he eventually becomes because the movies don't do that. They go from the past to when he's older and you don't really know much else from that. So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Slade]

While I loved Smallville, one thing I hated was that he met so any people before actually being Superman. Like Leo said. So, I don't know if I'll enjoy this show.

[arkangel]

Considering I enjoy Arrow on the CW, a network with teenagers as their target demographic, I have high hopes that Gotham on Fox will be even better as far as production values. I never liked Smallville, but actually enjoyed Birds of Prey despite it being coated with a massive layer of cheese.
I've read a few articles where Gotham is predicted to be the breakout show of the season, so I'm hopeful it will meet expectations. The premise sounds great and, despite it's focus, I hope we see a bit of Batman's evolution as he grows up. I just don't know how they could possibly do this and still remain somewhat loyal to existing continuity. For now, I'll reserve judgement until we've seen a few episodes. I'm also a bit biased as both a Batman and a prequel fan ie: Enterprise, Sarah Connor Chronicles, others that aren't Star Wars.
The wait is almost over... :)

[Storm Eagle]

This is actually the only new show that interests me enough to follow (aside from CSI: Cyber, which doesn't start for a while). So we'll see how long I stick with this.

I was getting kind of bored with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., so I took a break from it around the time Captain America: The Winter Soldier came out in theaters. Now that I've rented a copy, I'll give it a try again by renting the discs from the first season set. Anyway, I hope Gotham turns out to be more entertaining for me.

[Gorilla Grodd]

Like with any comic related show I'm cautiously optimistic and hope that it turns out well. Although there is a part of me that wishes it wasn't a thing just because the last thing I need is another TV show to keep up to date on. First world problems.

[AT-Man]

I'll check it out, but I don't think it will be nearly as good as Agents of SHIELD.

[Leo656]

People keep mentioning "Birds of Prey", I swear I completely missed that show when it was fresh, I didn't know it even existed. I have it on DVD, s'alright. I only watched through the series once but I didn't hate it. It's weird, the show didn't really "work" but it just as easily could have been huge if it had come out, like, ten years earlier and been exactly the same. I was crushing hard on the chick who played Babs in that. I think they did one episode where she was Batgirl again, that was kinda neat.

These "Batman Show Without Batman" projects are always a gamble, but Batman's mythology has so many strong characters that it's one of the few franchises you can try that with. I mean, Batman's frequently absent from his own books for months at a time and interesting stuff still happens constantly. That could easily translate to TV if they handle it right. I'm interested; I just gotta remember to watch it since I never catch shows when they're on.

[Davetello]

I'd love to know what you think when you're done. I don't read much DC, but I really loved that series.

I will certainly try and read the entire series soon - forty issues is easy to read fairly quickly. I will let you know what I think, most definitely.

[chrisdude]

I'll give it a shot, along with a bunch of other shows starting this fall. It could be interesting, but it certainly doesn't look like any fun. It looks to real-world for Gotham's colorful characters. But we'll see.

It shouldn't be as bad as Smallville, in terms of outliving its premise, because they're starting with such a young Bruce.

I'll check it out, but I don't think it will be nearly as good as Agents of SHIELD.I'm glad I'm not the only person here who like it. I think SHIELD is more interesting to watch than the superheroes...

[AT-Man]

I'm glad I'm not the only person here who like it. I think SHIELD is more interesting to watch than the superheroes...

I'm certain that anyone who doesn't like the show, hasn't watched all of the first season.

[chrisdude]

I'm certain that anyone who doesn't like the show, hasn't watched all of the first season. Yeah. They take their time to build the characters, like they would in a movie series. I think it really pays off, I love the way they weave in each of the movies once they get going. The show really needs to be viewed on time. But there is a group of people who will never be satisfied, because they want to see superhero battles every week, and they're asking where Iron Man is, and things like that.

[Slade]

Pretty good premiere episode I think.

[Raph's Girl]

I thought it was rather interesting. Plenty of Easter Eggs as well. Im just not too sure about this interpretation of Montoya.

Also, Barbara Kean lives in the clocktower! :lol:

[Cure]

I'm certain that anyone who doesn't like the show, hasn't watched all of the first season.

Let's not make assumptions. I saw the whole season, right up to where Coulson is scribbling sh*t on the wall. I think it sucks enough for me to not watch the second season and not feel bad about it.

[chrisdude]

I was thoroughly impressed. They've really put together a consuming Gotham. There are plenty of pieces in play. I never felt like it was missing Batman. I'm not familiar with Fish Mooney, as a character, but I sure loved her in this.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

It was okay. The show has two issues, I think:

- There's no Batman. Yes, I know this is a ludicrous thing to say, but every time there was trouble I couldn't help but think, "Is this when Batman comes? Oh wait, he's just a kid." I just really doubt the idea of having a Batman show without Batman can survive more than a season unless something drastic happens to improve the premise of the show.

- They weren't subtle about their supervillains. I felt like they were playing all their cards at once. Riddler showed up and was of course using all his lines to say riddles. Penguin had his trademark umbrella, which could have been a sign of subtle foreshadowing, but then everyone called him "Penguin". I did like how Joker (was it him?) was introduced, though.

I'll continue to watch the show, but I can't say that I expect great things from it.

[Slade]

I was thoroughly impressed. They've really put together a consuming Gotham. There are plenty of pieces in play. I never felt like it was missing Batman. I'm not familiar with Fish Mooney, as a character, but I sure loved her in this.

Pretty sure she's an original character.

It was okay. The show has two issues, I think:

- There's no Batman. Yes, I know this is a ludicrous thing to say, but every time there was trouble I couldn't help but think, "Is this when Batman comes? Oh wait, he's just a kid." I just really doubt the idea of having a Batman show without Batman can survive more than a season unless something drastic happens to improve the premise of the show.

- They weren't subtle about their supervillains. I felt like they were playing all their cards at once. Riddler showed up and was of course using all his lines to say riddles. Penguin had his trademark umbrella, which could have been a sign of subtle foreshadowing, but then everyone called him "Penguin". I did like how Joker (was it him?) was introduced, though.

I'll continue to watch the show, but I can't say that I expect great things from it.

I read the show will do a nod to Joker every week with a different person.

[BubblyShell22]

Saw the premiere and really enjoyed it. I love the characters and how they show some of their origins. Loved seeing Catwoman on the roof, and I also liked seeing a young Poison Ivy. Can't believe what happened to her dad though. All in all, a pretty satisfying premiere, and I'm definitely going to watch more of it.

[DarkLightDragon]

-Well Penguin's already gone off the deep end quicker than I thought he'd be. No doubt he's going back to Gotham against Gordon's advice to get revenge on Fish and possibly him.

-I did like that Selena was there at the funeral. That glance she made seemed to be a non-verbal way of empathizing with Bruce in having to grow up without both your parents.

-I guess growing up in an abusive household would make Ivy more inclined to prefer plants over people.

-The comedian entertaining Fish made me think, "Oh wait....could that be a Killing Joke reference since that's the most possible origin for Joker was that he was a comedian (or at least a failed one)?

-So Gordon's girlfriend is named 'Barbra?' Wonder if that'll be important later when/if he has a daughter. Or it might be an Easter Egg.

[arkangel]

Overall, I thought they did a great job for the premiere episode. The good cop, bad cop was well acted and you gained empathy for Harvey throughout the course of the episode as a grizzled veteran whose become more than a bit jaded over the course of his career. It also managed to introduce most of the main players, some subtley (great forshadowing with catwoman, poison ivy, and riddler) and others a little ham-fisted (penguin). It would have had more impact if they never used the word penguin for at least a few episodes.
Gotham is nice and gritty without being overly gothic looking. Probably not the best way to descibe it, but with most Batman movies and even the Birds of Prey, it's a bit hard to suspend belief as you don't "completely" buy into Gotham being a "real" city (eg: the Shumacher Batflicks especially). This Gotham feels fresh, modern, and easily identified as a real setting.
Despite the show's premise as a prequel, I think the easter eggs that forshadow things to come will be more than enought to hold the interest of any Batman fan and I hope they take their time in introducing elements that shape Bruce Wayne's evolution into the Dark Knight. It definitely has a different feel than superhero shows, as it should, and I think it will do well if they continue to handle the material with respect to the established mythos.
I must have been tired, as I missed the Joker reference...

[Slade]

I have to admit, I didn't like Alfred in this.

[DarkLightDragon]

He did seem fairly overprotective of Bruce. But TBF, I can't blame him for that after what has happened. Though it's quite clear he's going to take issue with Gordon for encouraging him in some way next episode.

[MrTMNT2012]

Yep. It sucked!

[SquareShield]

I am not sure about it; the city looked cool but I am not sure when this series is taken place. They have cell phones yet drive very old vehicles. Like the old police car driven by Gordon and Bullock.

[NinjaPug]

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of this at all.

[Slade]

He did seem fairly overprotective of Bruce. But TBF, I can't blame him for that after what has happened. Though it's quite clear he's going to take issue with Gordon for encouraging him in some way next episode.

I didn't even read it as overprotective. I tried to, but to me he just had this dickhead attitude about him.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I am not sure about it; the city looked cool but I am not sure when this series is taken place. They have cell phones yet drive very old vehicles. Like the old police car driven by Gordon and Bullock.

It sounds like they're going for a B:tas kinda look with this.

[chrisdude]

I really felt like the show put Gordon in an interesting position. And between him, the gangs, and the police department, they'll have a compelling show. I really don't need a check-in with Bruce every episode. And even though they introduced a lot of future villains, I'd like to think they will develop most of them slowly. This show actually got me to not think about Batman, and that's probably the highest praise I can give it. I was skeptical, but I'll be watching next week.

I am not sure about it; the city looked cool but I am not sure when this series is taken place. They have cell phones yet drive very old vehicles. Like the old police car driven by Gordon and Bullock.My guess is that they want to be ambiguous about it. I don't recall the lines, but there was some pretty modern slang used in the diner. I think it's present day, but they don't wanna be in your face about it. And I think old-timey cars has just become part of Gotham's identity.

[The Stryker]

I didn't enjoy it.

It was full of the typical 'look! It's that thing or person you know!' prequel lameness and all the other conversations and situations were just dull to sit through. Yeah, I don't know. Didn't grab me in the slightest.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, I think it's different if you're an established fan of the Batman franchise so you expect a certain vibe. While I certainly know enough about Batman, I've never really been a diehard fan of it, so for me, this prequel seems just fine the way it is and will get people who may only have a vague idea of who Batman is interested in the franchise as a whole.

I loved Fish Moony and really feel Jada did a wonderful job with it. She's definitely someone you don't want to cross! And I also had a Joker vibe with the comedian as well.

[blindturtle02]

Pilot's up on iTunes and amazon instant video. Thinking about trying this one out. I'm a pretty big Batman fan, so I gotta say I'm not sure what to think about there being no Batman in Gotham. It's worth a shot though, I guess. Might be fun to see what kiddo Bruce is up to. Good to know that the rogues will be showing up.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

What especially excited me was near the end that Falcone guy mentioned Gotham was on a "razor's edge". That's when I thought: wouldn't it be awesome if Batman took advantage of that and tipped Gotham towards the side of the good guys?

But then I remembered.

There is no Batman in this show.

And that's the biggest problem. This show has so much potential but squanders it by making Bruce 10 years old or whatever.

There is no point to introducing all those super-villains when there is no hero to fight them. It's just Gordon (sans trademark mustache) doing some decent police work in a corrupted city. Hell, not even Bullock - his partner - is fighting for "the greater good" or whatever.

The show only captivates people's interest because - defying logic, defying all rationale, defying all evidence - everyone thinks Batman will show up sooner or later.

[CyberCubed]

This show simply should have been a 5-episode prequel to a REAL Batman show.

I mean if this show was leading in to an actual Batman series it would be fantastic. But we know that's not happening. If this show continues it'll be 3-5 years of Gordon fighting crime while Bruce ages up to 15 at the most.

[Leofan26]

I missed the pilot and was really looking forward to it, shame how they can never give Batman an actual live action series. What with these shows like the Green Arrow and The Flash in coming along with Gotham and SuperGirl show being filmed and now new Teen Titans live action series being introduced to us. With Robin / Night Wing being the leader in the series they'll likley be tons of references to Batman like what happened with the Teen Titans Animated series.

They even gave us a SmallVill ( Super Man ) Live action series and added in all those DC characters in it minus Batman.

Why is it so hard to give us a live action Batman show? The villains such as Joker and Catwoman have no powers, meaning less money to spend. The only villains I could see them having a hard time adapting to live action is Poisen Ivey.

These Flash villains they'll have a hard time with, a lot of them have special ability's.

[Raph's Girl]

-So Gordon's girlfriend is named 'Barbra?' Wonder if that'll be important later when/if he has a daughter. Or it might be an Easter Egg.

That's not an Easter Egg in the slightest. Barbara Gordon/Batgirl was named after her mother, Barbara Kean. Altho sometimes Barbara Gordon/Batgirl's origin is that she's Jim and Barbara's niece who they adopted after her parents died in a car crash. But current continutity she's the biological daughter of Jim and Barbara. Generally Jim and Barbara sr are divorced or seperated by the time Barbara Jr becomes Batgirl. There's also a son, Jim Jr, who's nuttier than a fruitcake. Barbara sr got custody of Jim Jr while Jim Sr got custody of Barbara Jr.

[chrisdude]

I felt like it made a good case for Gotham, as a focus for a series. I think they introduced some interesting characters, and I think Gordon's differences with the GPD status quo and the gang war that seems to be brewing could offer plenty of drama. But many of us here are still bummed that there's no Batman, and I think the worst thing they could do is sacrifice a what they've got going and focusing on Bruce. But I could be wrong. I'm really curious to see how this show does in the ratings over the next couple weeks.

[BubblyShell22]

Yes, but this was established long before that this was a prequel and that there would be no Batman. I don't care as I want to see how the cops deal with things on their own and how Bruce evolves to become the Dark Knight everyone loves. It shows promise, so I'm definitely going to keep staying tuned. I like how Harvey Bullock isn't really a good cop and is friends with Fish Moony of all people. It just adds to the drama of the whole thing and the conflict Jim has and will continue to have about good and evil.

[The Stryker]

For the record. I don't care about the whole No Batman thing. I actually wish there was LESS Batman stuff in it. They could've held off on the Wayne murders until the season finale for all I care.

I just find the show dull and uninteresting. Bullock is so cookie cutter bad cop that it's hard to really get into him. Which is a shame since he's easily the best actor in the thing.

[ToTheNines]

It's not great. Very stilted dialogue.

I thought they nailed Nygma's portrayal, but some of the others were so cheesy and contrived. Penguin mainly... and dear God, there was just nothing to like about "catgirl".

I'll keep my thumb on its pulse, as I could see a couple of good stories coming out of it. But the very concept doesn't allow much world building (at least, it shouldn't... they'll probably end up pulling a Smallville though).

[Davetello]

I really enjoyed it. Yes, some complaints here are valid - I can understand the problems with the writing or dialogue as it is cheesy in places. But I thought it set the tone well and the show has a lot of promise.

A few guys I know felt that the casting of Ben McKenzie as Gordon was something which might put them off, as they aren't fans (he has 'no charisma', apparently). He did come across as wooden in places, but overall I felt he done a solid job. The dynamic between Gordon and Bullock was interesting enough, and I will be looking to see how they flesh out the likes of Penguin and the Riddler. Not sold on Fish Mooney yet, but we will see what happens in future episodes.

I think they've ruled out Batman eventually being in the show, but I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of them backtracking and time jumping into a late teen/early 20s Bruce Wayne at some stage.

[DarkLightDragon]

I just realized the 'name' thing they have going on with Fish and Oswald eventually embracing his "Penguin" nickname and how that hints/foreshadows what's going to happen to Fish. I certainly wouldn't put it past Penguin to kill her considering his new killer instinct as well as just her being power-hungry b**ch who wants to overthrow Falcone. Plus, she's an original character for the show and not a mainstream Batman villain so something's obviously going to happen to her at some point before this show even ends.

[BubblyShell22]

I actually liked the scenes with "Catwoman" even though we got no dialogue from her. Just her being there intrigued me enough, especially since she witnessed the Wayne murders herself. As for Harvey, he reminds me a lot of Voight from Chicago P.D. as he seems to be in the same role of not always following the rules unlike Jim Gordon, who seems to be the cookie-cutter good cop in this series. I'm definitely seeing some tension there, and there's definitely going to be a lot of conflict concerning different methods Harvey may try to implement. I have to say that the scene in the meat locker shed was hilarious when both of them were tied up. I just couldn't stop laughing at that.

As for Fish, yeah, I can see Penguin getting revenge on her, but I love her character myself. She's just so awesome.

[blindturtle02]

I really enjoyed it. Yes, some complaints here are valid - I can understand the problems with the writing or dialogue as it is cheesy in places. But I thought it set the tone well and the show has a lot of promise.

A few guys I know felt that the casting of Ben McKenzie as Gordon was something which might put them off, as they aren't fans (he has 'no charisma', apparently). He did come across as wooden in places, but overall I felt he done a solid job. The dynamic between Gordon and Bullock was interesting enough, and I will be looking to see how they flesh out the likes of Penguin and the Riddler. Not sold on Fish Mooney yet, but we will see what happens in future episodes.

I think they've ruled out Batman eventually being in the show, but I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of them backtracking and time jumping into a late teen/early 20s Bruce Wayne at some stage.

I'd love to see an eventual time jump. The thought occurred to me a few nights ago. It'll be interesting to see where the writers go with the series if it gets picked up for more seasons.

[snake]

I'm watching the episode now, S'alright. I like the Jim/Harvey team.

[Davetello]

I'd love to see an eventual time jump. The thought occurred to me a few nights ago. It'll be interesting to see where the writers go with the series if it gets picked up for more seasons.

Yeah, I think they might have to do it at some stage - I don't really see many options if goes on for five or six seasons. I said the same thing to a relative, but he made an interesting point in that he said it doesn't have to be faithful to the source material and that they can take these villains in new directions, especially as they are sort of being re-imagined. He's not a comic book fan, and like The Stryker he said he wants to see less Batman material in it (he actually said there are enough Batman TV shows). What he wants to see is essentially a Batman-less crime drama with some special villains thrown in. From what I know of the series, that sounds like Gotham Central made for television.

I'm watching the episode now, S'alright. I like the Jim/Harvey team.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would work well in practice, but it's a nice dynamic. They bounce off each other pretty well.

----------------

Listen, I don't think any of us expect this show to challenge the likes of Breaking Bad or The Wire for the title of the greatest television series of the millennium. Everyone has their own opinion of course, but if we go into it with reasonable expectations I think most of us can get a lot from it.

[snake]

I actually liked Penguin. The Riddler was extremely annyoing in his 5 seconds of screen time.

[blindturtle02]

There are a tun of rogues they could play around with over time. I loved how they portrayed Twoface in Batman TAS and hope to see him eventually. I guess this is more real world stuff, so probably no Manbat or Clayface. These two always scared me as a kid, but oh well. I've got to say that Joker in a Batmanless Gotham might also be interesting. They also introduced that Red Claw chick in the toon, and I always loved Kate Mulgrew playing that role. Anywho, yeah, so many possibilities. I wonder if they'll eventually add Deathstroke to the mix or if they'll steer clear since he's on CW's Arrow and-- gasp, that might confuse people! Do network execs think they have to water stuff down for adults as well as kids these days? Hope not.

[snake]

I hope Joker doesn't come in. I always seen him as the guy who rolled into gotham after hearing about Batman. I never really took any of his backstories to heart and always saw them as tricks he would use to confuse people, hence the changes in the backstories.

[Davetello]

I actually liked Penguin. The Riddler was extremely annyoing in his 5 seconds of screen time.

I think the Riddler was just a tease in terms of the pilot - he's one of my favourite Bat villains so I hope we see more of him and his development. I love the psychological aspect of Nigma.

There are a tun of rogues they could play around with over time. I loved how they portrayed Twoface in Batman TAS and hope to see him eventually. I guess this is more real world stuff, so probably no Manbat or Clayface. These two always scared me as a kid, but oh well. I've got to say that Joker in a Batmanless Gotham might also be interesting. They also introduced that Red Claw chick in the toon, and I always loved Kate Mulgrew playing that role. Anywho, yeah, so many possibilities. I wonder if they'll eventually add Deathstroke to the mix or if they'll steer clear since he's on CW's Arrow and-- gasp, that might confuse people! Do network execs think they have to water stuff down for adults as well as kids these days? Hope not.

Yeah, I really like Manbat and Clayface as well. Those two and Two Face were all handled superbly by Batman TAS - stellar work. But then that show's treatment of most characters was fantastic.

As I said earlier, the worry is that much of these villains' appeal may lie in their dichotomy with or relationship to Batman. Nigma in terms of smarts, Joker pushing the Bat to his ethical limits etc. The worry is if these characters can stand alone without him. That's why I'm feeling a time jump will happen eventually - that and the pressure from the fans.

Do you think we could see Ra's Al Ghul?

Deathstroke seems to fit this show like a glove, but as you say he's part of another show on another station. Yes, lots of stuff feels watered down these days sadly.

I'd love to see Black Mask as well. We don't want it to be too convoluted. But over six or so seasons all/some of these villains could have adequate screen time and story arcs. It could be really great fan service.

[snake]

What if this is just a lead in to an actual Batman show around the second or third season?

[Davetello]

What if this is just a lead in to an actual Batman show around the second or third season?

Do you mean a time jump? Or do you mean they might end it after a few seasons and then start work on a whole new show with this show as the prequel material? You mean the latter in all probability and I would be more than happy with that. In fact I would prefer this as I prefer to see the origins of the characters before jumping in with Batman and his rogues gallery in a pilot.

[snake]

Do you mean a time jump? Or do you mean they might end it after a few seasons and then start work on a whole new show with this show as the prequel material? You mean the latter in all probability and I would be more than happy with that. In fact I would prefer this as I prefer to see the origins of the characters before jumping in with Batman and his rogues gallery in a pilot.

A time jump to Bruce training to become batman, and then his first day on the job.

[Davetello]

A time jump to Bruce training to become batman, and then his first day on the job.

Well, either way it amounts to the same thing, whether it's a time jump or a new show. And yes, I would be more than happy with that. If this show had started with Batman training, Batman: Year One or Batman and his already established rogues gallery it would have left like more of the same. I like and respect that they're developing some origin stories, as I like origin stories in fiction.

Like you, I and blindturtle said, a time jump would be fantastic at some point. Not too soon though - we want to see these characters developed. And a problem with a time jump is possible mass recasting of characters.

[snake]

Well, either way it amounts to the same thing, whether it's a time jump or a new show. And yes, I would be more than happy with that. If this show had started with Batman training, Batman: Year One or Batman and his already established rogues gallery it would have left like more of the same. I like and respect that they're developing some origin stories, as I like origin stories in fiction.

Like you, I and blindturtle said, a time jump would be fantastic at some point. Not too soon though - we want to see these characters developed. And a problem with a time jump is possible mass recasting of characters.

Some villains I'd like to see forshadowed
-Solomon Grundy
- Two Face (Or Harvey Dent)
- Bane
- Clayface
- Killer Croc (If they go with the skin disease route, he might be an established villain)
- Man Bat
- Mr. Freeze

[Davetello]

Some villains I'd like to see forshadowed
-Solomon Grundy
- Two Face (Or Harvey Dent)
- Bane
- Clayface
- Killer Croc (If they go with the skin disease route, he might be an established villain)
- Man Bat
- Mr. Freeze

There was a Grundy easter egg in the pilot. I don't know if that means he won't show up. Bane is certainly doable, although without Batman around it's hard to know who could best him in combat (and even Bats struggled with that as we know). Two Face is a street level character so I see no problem with him appearing, hopefully he will.

I'd love to see the others as well. But then I love Batman main rogue gallery (and Spiderman's, as an aside) and would be happy to see a selection from about 15-20 named villains show up.

[snake]

There was a Grundy easter egg in the pilot. I don't know if that means he won't show up. Bane is certainly doable, although without Batman around it's hard to know who could best him in combat (and even Bats struggled with that as we know). Two Face is a street level character so I see no problem with him appearing, hopefully he will.

I'd love to see the others as well. But then I love Batman main rogue gallery (and Spiderman's, as an aside) and would be happy to see a selection from about 15-20 named villains show up.

I caught the Grundy easter egg. He was the owner of the bar that Harvey was in, right?

[DarkLightDragon]

I honestly would like to see Mr. Freeze and maybe Scarecrow prior to their lives of villainy since they are a couple of my personal favorites. Freeze could still be a normal guy who meets or lives happily with Nora before her diagnosis and Scarecrow could still be a scientist/doctor studying the psychology of fear with signs that he's not necessarily in it to help people.

Though I can easily see how they'd rehash Penguin's 'starting out as some awkward guy that got picked on by peers before going all ruthless on them' for Jonathan Crane.

[Davetello]

I caught the Grundy easter egg. He was the owner of the bar that Harvey was in, right?

Wasn't he part of a street name that Bullock mentioned? "4th and Grundy" or something like that?

I honestly would like to see Mr. Freeze and maybe Scarecrow prior to their lives of villainy since they are a couple of my personal favorites. Freeze could still be a normal guy who meets or lives happily with Nora before her diagnosis and Scarecrow could still be a scientist/doctor studying the psychology of fear with signs that he's not necessarily in it to help people.

Though I can easily see how they'd rehash Penguin's 'starting out as some awkward guy that got picked on by peers before going all ruthless on them' for Jonathan Crane.

Those sound fantastic. What they will be wary of though is introducing too many villains at once and things reaching saturation point (although McKenzie did say they will be introducing new characters from episode to episode so who knows).

I'd like to see perhaps three or even four seasons fleshing out a few villains at various times, creating some manageable overlap. Then they could have a timejump to a mid-20s Wayne who is about to become the Batman.

[DarkLightDragon]

Well I didn't mean to say they should, since that very well can lead to having too many Batman villains all at once, but would be eager to see them in some fashion should they introduce those particular two.

[Davetello]

Well I didn't mean to say they should, since that very well can lead to having too many Batman villains all at once, but would be eager to see them in some fashion should they introduce those particular two.

Agree. I would certainly love to see those two, particularly Freeze. The relationship with his wife is something which has massive mileage and great potential character development if she's healthy but gradually deteriorates.

Having looked back in the thread there are some people wondering what time period this is set in. In the series preview episode called "The Legend Reborn" (free on places like Amazon) they mention that it isn't set in a particular time period and they're just going for an eclectic mix and mesh. So that's why we see a noir Gotham with some older vehicles but also the use of cell phones etc.

[blindturtle02]

Heck yeah, Dave and Dragon, would love to see Freeze at some point as well as Scarecrow. I was just watching Heart of Ice this afternoon and can't believe I forgot about Freeze since he's also one of my favorite Batman villains. I like the idea of them introducing a few new villains per season. Sounds like the way they'll probably go if they choose to keep bringing it back. And yes, they should bring Ra's into the lineup at some point. Enjoyed him ever since I saw my very first Batman TAS episode, Off Balance. I'm a bit unfamiliar with some villains like Black Mask and Grundy, but since my better half and I are starting to read comics together, I hope to remedy that. Grundy seems like he'd be a powerhouse from what I've seen in my Injustice game and Justice League/JLU DVD collections. Love that guy, but I suppose they wouldn't go the zombie route if they're trying to stay real world. I don't see why they couldn't go with just a touch of the supernatural or Scifi in this, but seems like no live action comic shows have touched this since Smallville. Well, sounds like Agents of Shield is tackling it. So ya never know. Fox might do it to compete with Shield at some point.

[Davetello]

Heck yeah, Dave and Dragon, would love to see Freeze at some point as well as Scarecrow. I was just watching Heart of Ice this afternoon and can't believe I forgot about Freeze since he's also one of my favorite Batman villains. I like the idea of them introducing a few new villains per season. Sounds like the way they'll probably go if they choose to keep bringing it back. And yes, they should bring Ra's into the lineup at some point. Enjoyed him ever since I saw my very first Batman TAS episode, Off Balance. I'm a bit unfamiliar with some villains like Black Mask and Grundy, but since my better half and I are starting to read comics together, I hope to remedy that. Grundy seems like he'd be a powerhouse from what I've seen in my Injustice game and Justice League/JLU DVD collections. Love that guy, but I suppose they wouldn't go the zombie route if they're trying to stay real world. I don't see why they couldn't go with just a touch of the supernatural or Scifi in this, but seems like no live action comic shows have touched this since Smallville. Well, sounds like Agents of Shield is tackling it. So ya never know. Fox might do it to compete with Shield at some point.

Yeah, it would be brilliant to see them introduced sparingly but have them recurring as well, so they can pop up at any point if it ever time jumps to Batman. As I say above the potential to introduce Fries and his healthy wife is phenomenal. Can you imagine how much we could see her deteriorate physically and mentally and he mentally before the accident? They really could build it up as one of the arcs over an entire season.

I'd like to see a little sci-fi or supernatural as well - why not? That sort of thing can keep a show fresh if it's done intelligently and coherently.

One of my favourite Grundy moments happens in the JL cartoon, between he and Hawkgirl. We really see his humanity.

I'm going to bed now mate. Speak soon.

[BubblyShell22]

I'm sure we'll see more villains, and I agree that a time jump would be beneficial down the line or else it'll get too boring and repetitive. But for now, I'm fine with seeing how things play out and what they have in store for us.

[TurtleTitan97]

Finally watched it. I thought it was pretty decent overall. I'm interested in what happens next.

[snake]

Anyone catch the second episode? I liked it better then the first. Penguin is still amazing.

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, loved it and loved the cliffhanger they left us on. I hope Selina gives Jim the necklace and tells more about who murdered the Wayne's. Penguin is awesome and really shone in this episode as well, and I still love Fish Moony. Yep, definitely not a woman to cross. Anyone catch the Arkham Asylum references they put in there? I thought that was pretty cool, too.

[snake]

Yep, loved it and loved the cliffhanger they left us on. I hope Selina gives Jim the necklace and tells more about who murdered the Wayne's. Penguin is awesome and really shone in this episode as well, and I still love Fish Moony. Yep, definitely not a woman to cross. Anyone catch the Arkham Asylum references they put in there? I thought that was pretty cool, too.

I love the riddler pandering in the show.


"Oh Edward NIGMA, stop with your RIDDLES! Always asking QUESTIONS and RIDDLES. RIDDLES. RIDDLES."

Bullock looks to the camera,

'Ya get it? He's the riddler!"

[CyberCubed]

This show feels like someones truly awful fanfiction brought to life on TV. I'm pretty sure if you look up Batman fanfiction from the early 2000's you'll find a concept just like this.

[blindturtle02]

I love the riddler pandering in the show.


"Oh Edward NIGMA, stop with your RIDDLES! Always asking QUESTIONS and RIDDLES. RIDDLES. RIDDLES."

Bullock looks to the camera,

'Ya get it? He's the riddler!"

I hated having to shut my cable off to save around $170 a month, but glad I'm able to buy these for about a dollar or so a week. I sort of looked ahead at the upcoming episode titles and have to say that by the sound of things, it's shaping up to be an intense first half of the season. I'd like to think I wouldn't have spoiled the episodes for myself if they'd given synopses.

I've always liked the Gotham PD, so it's great being able to explore that relationship between Gordon and Bullock here. It's Batman related, so I think I'm officially hooked. They just better have it up on amazon instant vid or iTunes every week soon after each episode airs, or I'll be sad.

[snake]

I hated having to shut my cable off to save around $170 a month, but glad I'm able to buy these for about a dollar or so a week. I sort of looked ahead at the upcoming episode titles and have to say that by the sound of things, it's shaping up to be an intense first half of the season. I'd like to think I wouldn't have spoiled the episodes for myself if they'd given synopses.

I've always liked the Gotham PD, so it's great being able to explore that relationship between Gordon and Bullock here. It's Batman related, so I think I'm officially hooked. They just better have it up on amazon instant vid or iTunes every week soon after each episode airs, or I'll be sad.

Get the fox app. It requires no sign in and you can watch episodes up to 40 days after they air.

[Slade]

Watched second episode today. Wasn't too shabby.

[ObiWanFan4life]

I like the show so far, I like the actors, especially the guys playing Jim Gordon, Harvey Bullock and Oswald Cobblepot. However, I have a few issues.

I can't get used to Jada Pinkett-Smith's accent. I also think it was a wasted opportunity to kill off the Waynes in the first episode. I mean, Bruce Wayne's going to be a kid for the entire show, so why not save the desth of his parents for the season finale, when we've gotten time to know them. But my biggest problem with the first two episodes is the lack of subtlety with the easter eggs, like they call Selina Kyle "Cat" because she'll become Catwoman, or they called that girl "Ivy" instead of calling her Pam or Lily.

[Slade]

Yeah I'm not a fan of Selina telling everyone to call her cat and it's like they had to name the girl Ivy so people would know that's who it's supposed to be. That's not even Poison Ivy's real name.



I don't think I caught a Joker reference in this one.

[BubblyShell22]

This show feels like someones truly awful fanfiction brought to life on TV. I'm pretty sure if you look up Batman fanfiction from the early 2000's you'll find a concept just like this.

No it isn't anything like that. It's a really good show that's very well-written for how it is. You can tell the writers respect the franchise and want to do all they can to stay true to it. I loved how Bruce was testing himself and trying to let go of his fear. Alfred was a bit harsh, but I can see why he would be because he cares about Bruce and doesn't want any harm to come to him. I love how Jim is sort of a mentor to Bruce and hope to see more of them later.

I like Selina's nickname and think she's a pretty intriguing character. Can't wait to see more with her. Same goes for Fish Moony.

[TurtleTitan97]

I think this show's version of Selina Kyle is definitely on of my favorite things about the show. The show has its rough edges that could be smoothen out, but other than that it's (so far) better that I expected it to be.

[snake]

Calls herself Cat.
Is seen with a cat in the first episode
Wears black, like a cat
Likes to claw at things


G-guys, I think she may be Catwoman.

[TurtleTitan97]

Calls herself Cat.
Is seen with a cat in the first episode
Wears black, like a cat
Likes to claw at things


G-guys, I think she may be Catwoman.

And here I thought she was Lady Shiva! :tlol::trazz:

[BubblyShell22]

Really? I had no idea. They probably did that though for people who may not be familiar with the Batman franchise or for people who are only vaguely aware of it. Hardcore fans will know immediately that she's Catwoman because they know that Selina Kyle is her original name while others may not know that. I do like her in this though and think she's pretty neat.

[Brodie]

They're on the second episode. Be a little more ****ing subtle, and ease into it. Jesus. Its awful.

[snake]

Really? I had no idea. They probably did that though for people who may not be familiar with the Batman franchise or for people who are only vaguely aware of it. Hardcore fans will know immediately that she's Catwoman because they know that Selina Kyle is her original name while others may not know that. I do like her in this though and think she's pretty neat.

I was just joking. It was pretty obvious she was Catwoman.

[Raph's Girl]

I don't think I caught a Joker reference in this one.

Bullock backed into another cop who called him a clown.
Also I face palmed when Jim exclaimed "Freeze!" and that lady told the goon "Hush..."

Oh and the bad guy this week that was wanting those kids was Dollmaker. We last saw him making rounds in "Arrow". And speaking of Arrow for like 2 seconds a Queen Industries (or whatever the company is called) building was seen! So now will a young Ollie pop up (since the show is supposed to be in the past)?? :P

There's also a preview that shows some upcoming stuff. One of the villains popping up is fricken Professor Pyg!! Like WTH?!

U can see Pyg at the 1:58 mark...right before Victor Zsasz pop up... yeah he's in the show too.

bzUJDmjBPuQ

[chrisdude]

If it was up to me, Selina would be carrying a cat, hissing at people, and making cat puns.

[Sumac]

If it was up to me, Selina would be carrying a cat, hissing at people, and making cat puns.
"What have killed dinosaurus? Kitty Litter!! Ha-ha-ha-ha..."
Nah. ;)

[BubblyShell22]

I was just joking. It was pretty obvious she was Catwoman.

Yeah, I know. I do agree that they could be a bit more subtle about it, but that's the way they want to do it for the people who may not know much about Batman, so I get that.

[Raph's Girl]

Nicholas D'Agosto has been cast as Harvey Dent.... At the rate this show is going most of Bruce's enemies will be 40 - 60 by the time he becomes Batman. Seriously Nicolas is 34! :ohwell:

He's described as "a bright, charming, idealistic Assistant District Attorney whose sole mission is to eradicate the crime and corruption that has poisoned Gotham."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=55970

[snake]

If it was up to me, Selina would be carrying a cat, hissing at people, and making cat puns.

This. I'd laugh so hard.

[BubblyShell22]

So now we've got Harvey Bullock and now Harvey Dent a.k.a. Two Face. Interesting. I do also hope there's a time jump sometime down the line, or this is going to be weird. The writes did say that eventually he would put on the cape and become Batman by the end, so it makes sense that there would have to be a time jump.

[NinjaPug]

Just can't get into this show. I have no desire to see Batman's rogues without Batman.

I really really really hate the idea of the Joker showing up on this show when Bruce is only a kid. Makes no sense.

The Fish Mooney character is easily the worst. Such terrible acting. This show is so campy but they don't realize it and think they're being serious.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't know. I like Fish Moony and feel she has potential. And who says Joker will show up when Bruce is a kid? They may save it for down the line and have a time jump. I hope so because it would be weird to go through the whole series with Bruce as just a kid. Have to admit that him "testing himself" was pretty creepy.

[Raph's Girl]

I don't know. I like Fish Moony and feel she has potential. And who says Joker will show up when Bruce is a kid?

Who says? The show's creators have said so. We won't see him right up but rather hints. Like that comedian at the club.

Other characters confirmed (besides Ed Nygma, Cat, Ivy, and Penguin):
Harvey Dent (he was just cast)
Scarecrow (I THINK I saw him in a trailer I posted)
Victor Zsazs (seen in a recent trailor)
Prof. Pyg (seen in same trailor as above)
Freeze
Hugo Strange

[Slade]

I read earlier that there actually won't be a nod to the Joker in every episode.

[shuriken]

It might be more interesting WITHOUT a lot of the Batman's Rogue gallery. Maybe have just a handful of em. Focus on the Gotham of old, with Falcone, Maroni, Fish Mooney (I dunno, more gangster villains...). I haven't seen it, but It doesn't really pique my interest.

[snake]

Anyone watch last nights episode? This show is shaping up to be awesome.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I did, and wasn't impressed. I've grown to loathe Fish Mooney. Her acting feels forced and unnatural, and her dialogue sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me. I hope she gets killed off or something, but she probably won't.

I wasn't pleased with the lesbian affair thing (I assume that's what it was?) between Barbara and Montoya being shoehorned in. Is that some arbitrary way of trying to force more friction between Gordon and the Major Crimes Unit? Is there a reason I should even care?

I was also a little taken aback when that dead body killed some old lady. Good God. If you want your show to be realistic, you can achieve that without killing old ladies at random.

I did love Cobblepot though. He is great. He is the only reason I continue to watch this show. He is the one good thing about it so far.

[Raph's Girl]

I wasn't pleased with the lesbian affair thing (I assume that's what it was?) between Barbara and Montoya being shoehorned in.

Barbara and Montoya were college sweethearts. It was not shoehorned in as it was established in the first episode.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Barbara and Montoya were college sweethearts. It was not shoehorned in as it was established in the first episode.

Huh. Must have missed that.

[snake]

I did, and wasn't impressed. I've grown to loathe Fish Mooney. Her acting feels forced and unnatural, and her dialogue sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me. I hope she gets killed off or something, but she probably won't.

I wasn't pleased with the lesbian affair thing (I assume that's what it was?) between Barbara and Montoya being shoehorned in. Is that some arbitrary way of trying to force more friction between Gordon and the Major Crimes Unit? Is there a reason I should even care?

I was also a little taken aback when that dead body killed some old lady. Good God. If you want your show to be realistic, you can achieve that without killing old ladies at random.

I did love Cobblepot though. He is great. He is the only reason I continue to watch this show. He is the one good thing about it so far.

Cobblepot is the best part of the show.

[Zulithe]

Nooo i'm falling behind, I need to watch episode 3 today :P

I am still in the "give it time" phase but I don't dislike the show so far.

[snake]

Nooo i'm falling behind, I need to watch episode 3 today :P

I am still in the "give it time" phase but I don't dislike the show so far.

It's better then the past two episodes.

[CyberCubed]

There are lesbians in this show? Seems like a cheap plot to get people to watch.

Also how the hell can Barbara be in College when Bruce is 10?

[ToTheNines]

There are lesbians in this show? Seems like a cheap plot to get people to watch.

Also how the hell can Barbara be in College when Bruce is 10?

You're a ****ing moron. Go read Gotham Central. And never come back.

And wrong Barbara.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Um, Cubed? Wrong Barbara. This is Batgirl's MOM. Geez, TRY to keep up, will you? And they're referring to her past, not what's "current" in the show itself. Apparently, she had a fling with Montoya in college.

I love this show so far, though I've missed a few of the more obscure references, like Grundy and Queen. I like Moony and Penguin so far, their power struggle and his grudge against her are really interesting. Selena is turning into my favorite character so far, and I like that she's not much older than Bruce (13). Nygma's brief appearances are fun and just enough to hint at who he will be later, and I can't wait to see what they do with "Ivy", if anything. Maybe she is just a one-off here, but I doubt it.

I'll have to wait until Friday to catch the repeat of this week's ep, since I was working when it aired last night, but I'm really enjoying this show. The only thing I don't really care for is Alfred. He seems too strict and hard on Bruce, and for some reason his accent is all wrong. Alfred has always used the "Queen's English" used in British "polite society", but this Alfred sounds more like the "gutter English" of common blue-collar Londoners. It's jarring.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I agree about Alfred being too harsh with Bruce, but it's understandable given that he's the boy's guardian now. I like how Bruce hints that he wants to help and how that will play into how he becomes Batman later. Also liked The Balloon Man, and am also really liking Cobblepot and his character. Definitely someone who's got a grudge and plays it well. And I also like Selina, too. She's a sneaky one.

[snake]

I think Alfred has been acting way too british in this show.:trazz:

[Slade]

I think Alfred has been acting way too british in this show.:trazz:

Haha maybe that's what it is!


I liked the episode, looking forward to next because of the ending though. Was wondering when Penguin would get him a suit.

[BubblyShell22]

He gets a suit? Never noticed that, but I'm stoked to see where this goes.

[M.O.D.O.K.]

I hope she gets killed off or something, but she probably won't.

Penguins eat fish. Just sayin'. ;)

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I have a feeling Moony may eventually get killed off by Penguin, and it would make sense, too.

[Luigiperps]

So was there not a joker reference in this one?

[BubblyShell22]

Not that I heard.

[snake]

So was there not a joker reference in this one?

No. It would be pretty hard to fit one in every episode.

[Slade]

So was there not a joker reference in this one?

Not in this one. They said it won't be in everyone, I bet they'll be very noticeable in the ones they put them in.

[Raph's Girl]

There are lesbians in this show? Seems like a cheap plot to get people to watch.

Also how the hell can Barbara be in College when Bruce is 10?

You REALLY need to read the comics. Rene Montoya has always been that way. Heck she was dating Bruce's cousin, Kate Kane (Batwoman II) for a while.

Barbara KEAN is the one on the show. Currently she's engaged to Jim Gordon. Barbara Kean is apparantly Bi and dated Rene Montoya back in her college days.

In the comics, Barbara and Jim SR are the parents of Barbara and Jim Jr. Barbara JR became Batgirl, Jim Jr went nutty. Barbara sr has never really played a big role in the comics as by the time Barbara Jr becomes Batgirl her parents are divorced.

Sometimes tho Barbara Jr is Jim's niece. He took her in after her parents died in a car crash and eventually adopted her.

[Raph's Girl]

Looks like Gotham got a full season order. FOX has ordered 6 more eps, making for a full 22 ep season!

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/gotham-fox-expanded-order-22-episodes/

[snake]

Looks like Gotham got a full season order. FOX has ordered 6 more eps, making for a full 22 ep season!

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/gotham-fox-expanded-order-22-episodes/
Awesome!

New episode tonight.

[Davetello]

Looks like Gotham got a full season order. FOX has ordered 6 more eps, making for a full 22 ep season!

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/gotham-fox-expanded-order-22-episodes/

As I allude to in the original post, I am not sure that's a good thing. It simply encourages more filler. I was happy with sixteen.

I have seen "Selina Kyle" and "Balloonman" now. Two worthy episodes, with Balloonman being the better imo. I like how matters were being taken into civilian hands through vigilantism in the last ep - perhaps some sort of reference to Batman himself (albeit with Balloonman actually killing people)?

The show is boiling nicely, I just hope there isn't too much filler. A tight, cohesive plot is what this show needs. Tonight's episode is going to be about Arkham, sounds promising.

[neatoman]

I'm not really that impressed with this show. It feels a bit nonsensical, the last episode featured an assassin whom we were told to be a competent professional, what were his methods? Stab people in the streets...

[BubblyShell22]

That assassin guy was crazy in this last episode, but I really enjoyed it nonetheless. Glad to hear there's more episodes ordered too because I actually really like this show.

[snake]

I can't wait for the next episode. The last one was pretty good.

[NinjaPug]

Looks like Gotham got a full season order. FOX has ordered 6 more eps, making for a full 22 ep season!

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/gotham-fox-expanded-order-22-episodes/

Weird. I read that the producers only mapped out a 16 episode season. Guess we got some filler coming our way.

[Slade]

It's been said before, but I really think this show is going to have to do a time jump.

I like it though.

[neatoman]

That assassin guy was crazy in this last episode, but I really enjoyed it nonetheless. Glad to hear there's more episodes ordered too because I actually really like this show.

Well I will continue to watch the show (I sadly don't have better things to do with my time) but I might drop it if they keep doing nonsense like this.

An overarching plotline that makes very little sense to me is the whole Penguin arc, why does Bullock buy that Gordon really shot him? Why does he return to Gotham almost right away when it would be a better idea to lay low somewhere else? And why the hell does he not even attempt to hide the damn bodies?

Stuff like that just kind of bugs me.

[snake]

Well I will continue to watch the show (I sadly don't have better things to do with my time) but I might drop it if they keep doing nonsense like this.

An overarching plotline that makes very little sense to me is the whole Penguin arc, why does Bullock buy that Gordon really shot him? Why does he return to Gotham almost right away when it would be a better idea to lay low somewhere else? And why the hell does he not even attempt to hide the damn bodies?

Stuff like that just kind of bugs me.

Who says he didn't hide the bodies off screen?

And Oswald could've took about 4 days to get back to Gotham.

[DarkLightDragon]

Plus, laying low would probably be the last thing on my mind when it's more driven by revenge on someone who gave me so much sh*t and believes me dead and done with.

[neatoman]

Who says he didn't hide the bodies off screen?

And Oswald could've took about 4 days to get back to Gotham.

Oh yeah four days, people will totally forget about the newbie cop killing the snitch in less than a week, totally not a better idea to wait two months instead.

[snake]

Plus, laying low would probably be the last thing on my mind when it's more driven by revenge on someone who gave me so much sh*t and believes me dead and done with.

This as well. Cobblepot was mad.

[BubblyShell22]

Cobblepot is bent on revenge, so we all knew he was going to come back regardless of Gordon ordering him not to. I can't wait to see the look on Bullock's face when he realizes Gordon didn't kill Cobblepot after all.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I've only seen the first episode, but of what I've seen, this show has impressed me alot. My only complaint is they have squeezed too many Batman villians into the first Episode, but other than that, the episode was really good. Can't wait for more.

[BubblyShell22]

Oh, you'll like the other eps as they keep getting better and better, so keep on watching. I have to say that my fave characters are Selina Kyle and Oswald Cobblepot. Oh, and I like Jim, too.

[Raph's Girl]

Aaand Gotham has now cast Leslie Thompkins!! She'll be played by "Firefly" actress Morena Baccarin. This will be her 4th DC character as she voiced Black Canary in JLA/U, Cheetah in "Batman Brave and the Bold" and Talia in "Son of Batman"... This take on Leslie is of course different in that she's a doctor at Arkham and has her eyes set on Jim Gordon.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=56518

[TheCanadiandrome]

I have been diggin this show!

[BubblyShell22]

Yep, and next week's episode looks crazy.

[snake]

So any idea why next weeks episode is called "Spirit Of The Goat".

[TigerClaw]

Here's your first look at Victor Zsasz
http://comicbook.com/2014/10/20/exclusive-first-look-at-victor-zsasz-in-gotham/

http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2014/10/gotham-106-gcpdbullpen-9688-109845.jpg

http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2014/10/gotham-107-gcpdbullpen-9603-109846.jpg

http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2014/10/gotham-107-gcpdbullpen-9725-109847.jpg

[BubblyShell22]

Whoa. He really looks like a cool character.

And my guess at the episode name, maybe because it's a sort of Halloween themed episode.

[DarkLightDragon]

Since my only exposure to Zsasz was the Arkham games and know he has the whole "carves number of kills on his body" thing, I'm either willing to assume he's yet to kill or has carves already hidden underneath his clothes.

[blindturtle02]

I've always liked Zsasz. I first heard him via the old BBC radio drama adaptation of Knightfall. Then of course I ran into him again via the Arkham cutscenes. I'm glad they added him to the show's rogues roster. Awesome news concerning Leslie Thompkins. Of course, I've only seen her in the animated series, so I'm looking forward to seeing her in Gotham.

[snake]

Whoa. He really looks like a cool character.

And my guess at the episode name, maybe because it's a sort of Halloween themed episode.

When I think of Halloween, I think of goats.

[Leo656]

I missed, I think, the last two, but I actually like it way more than I expected to. Even when the stories are a little bit weak, the characters keep it afloat. And it does a good job of hooking you into the next episode. We watched the first four in a row on DVR after only intending to check out the first one to see how it was. No, it's not very subtle, but when you have a lot of story you want to tell and you're not completely sure how long you're going to get to tell it in, you try and get as much done as possible as quickly as possible. Some of it's a little too "Wink-Wink", but that's something I generally expect nowadays.

I'm intrigued to see where it goes, as well as how long they can hold out before they inevitably get impatient and jump ahead 10 years. I doubt they'll do a "proper" Batman show anytime soon, but I can see them doing like Smallville did and use the last Season as a build-up to a final "unveiling". Except not like Smallville as in, y'know, not doing it sh*tty. I could see the final episode being Bruce finally becoming Batman and catching his parents' killer, and they'd somehow find a way to have The Joker be part of the events, so the show can ultimately end with setting the two of them on their iconic death-dance. It'll probably be something close to that.

[BubblyShell22]

I guess it just depends on how well the show's received if it'll be renewed for another season. But I like what we're getting now and can't wait for tonight for sure.

[Davetello]

Actually really been enjoying the show. Things seem to be bubbling up nicely. Hope it isn't nuked after a single season.

[pharaohyami5000]

Same here. Especially this episode with good Harvey Bullock screentime. And that ending. What will come out of that?

I haven't seen much television series to know this much, but this is the 2nd TV series I've watched where someone became the victim of the ATM from last week's episode, I believe.

[Davetello]

Same here. Especially this episode with good Harvey Bullock screentime. And that ending. What will come out of that?

I haven't seen much television series to know this much, but this is the 2nd TV series I've watched where someone became the victim of the ATM from last week's episode, I believe.

Possible spoiler for another show...

are you referring to Breaking Bad, when the crack whore kills her man with the ATM (when Jesse is in their home)?

And yeah, "Viper" and "Spirit of the Goat" were both enjoyable episodes. I like how Viper teases Venom - we will possibly be seeing Bane at some stage. And this week's episode was more of a serial killer chase, but it was excellent to see Penguin walk straight into the police station and announce himself. I think the show is better than some people give it credit for, despite some suspect writing at times.

Also enjoying Angel Batista from Dexter as Sal Maroni.

[pharaohyami5000]

Bingo! Unsure if there are other shows that has the "doom of ATM trope" (if it exists) but these 2 shows are currently the only ones that have that.

I guess it helps that I don't watch much cop shows or read the comics based on this series to gain the bigger enjoyment of Gotham. I don't know. Knowledge may be power, but seems like it's not powerful enough to gain enjoyment of something that's trying to welcome itself to reality.

Dexter. Hmm. Another show I'm considering.

[Raph's Girl]

So... apparantly in "Gotham" Scarecrow is a legacy villain. Jonathan Crane will be a kid but it's his father who'll be Scarecrow first. So insanity is genetic! Fun! :ohwell:


http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/03/the-scarecrow-is-headed-to-foxs-gotham

[shuriken]

I was able to catch the 1st 2 episodes. SO far Bullock, Gordon, Falcone, Cobblepot, and Selina are great. Alfred and Bruce are so so and Fish Mooney is so over the top ridiculous its painful.
And is it just me or is there a striking resemblance that the actress playing Selina Kyle looks like Michelle Pfeiffer some 40 years ago?

[snake]

So... apparantly in "Gotham" Scarecrow is a legacy villain. Jonathan Crane will be a kid but it's his father who'll be Scarecrow first. So insanity is genetic! Fun! :ohwell:


http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/03/the-scarecrow-is-headed-to-foxs-gotham

It's sort of like that in the new 52, although Scarecrow's father was a scientist experimenting on his son with fear.

[BubblyShell22]

Didn't watch the episode as I wasn't feeling well, so I missed it. Ah, well, it's just one episode.

[TurtleTitan97]

Man, that new episode was awesome! I really feel like this show gets better with each new episode. Anthony Carrigan did a good job as Zsasz, though honestly it was kinda weird at first seeing him play another DC character after seeing him as Kyle Nimbus over on "The Flash".

[BubblyShell22]

I decided not to watch because I just wasn't feeling up to it, but from what I saw in the previews, he did a good job.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Man, that new episode was awesome! I really feel like this show gets better with each new episode. Anthony Carrigan did a good job as Zsasz, though honestly it was kinda weird at first seeing him play another DC character after seeing him as Kyle Nimbus over on "The Flash".

I THOUGHT I recognized that guy.

Anyway - Cobblepot once again steals the show (and that's a good thing)! I honestly couldn't care less if Gordon got his head blown off. He's annoying. He's distracting. I'm always annoyed when a scene with Cobblepot or Bruce is interrupted by Gordon.

[snake]

New episode was pretty good. Penguin was cool as usual.

[Electric]

just found this thread, and while episodes fluctuate with me, overall i enjoy it.

most interesting are bruce and penguin, and love how theyre developing.

really looking forward to scarecrow/cranes father, as scarecrow is one of my favorite all time villains.

also enjoy ed nygmas appearances

wish theyd show more of ivy though

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, Penguin always steals the show when it comes to things, and I love Selina, too.

[Davetello]

Really enjoying the show. Loved the ending to the most recent episode. I think it's getting better as it goes on. Of course lots of fantastical, unrealistic things happen but that's the nature of comic book shows and films.

[Davetello]

Have people lost interest in this? I've seen all 9 episodes and I think it's been pretty good. Yeah, it's not the greatest show ever but it is legitimately interesting. The Penguin has been the best character, imo.

[BubblyShell22]

I haven't. I loved the latest episode and how Bruce and Selina formed a friendship. Of course, it seems weird now considering that when he gets older, they'll be enemies, but I loved how she was trying to teach him how to fight. Fall finale is this Monday, and I don't know when it'll be back. Probably January.

[Davetello]

That's true, but bear in mind that Bruce and Selina have a love/hate relationship in the comics. They have dated in the past etc, so it's probably them trying to play up that contradiction in their relationship even as kids. With him learning to fight and spending time with her, I'm thinking a future time jump is a distinct possibility. Or perhaps it's just a way to hint at what we all know he becomes and to give him some air time.

I didn't realise that there was only one more episode before Xmas break. I thought there were gonna be another two or three. That gives anyone who's behind plenty of time to catch up at least.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, that's true, and if that's what they're playing up to, then I'm all for that. I'm not too familiar with Batman that much. I've seen some of the movies and the show with Adam West, and that's it for me.

Yep, one more ep until the holiday break and I hope they do reruns so people can catch up. Maybe I can catch the ep I missed so I'm not too behind.

[Davetello]

Yeah, that's true, and if that's what they're playing up to, then I'm all for that. I'm not too familiar with Batman that much. I've seen some of the movies and the show with Adam West, and that's it for me.

Yep, one more ep until the holiday break and I hope they do reruns so people can catch up. Maybe I can catch the ep I missed so I'm not too behind.

I think they should do three or four seasons before any potential time jump. If they do it too early it loses some of its impact.

You should certainly look into Batman: The Animated Series from the early 90s. That's some of the best Batman stuff ever and it can be bought quite cheaply on DVD over there I believe. I bought three volumes (so the first 85 eps of the show, which is the entire thing minus the revamp) for a cumulative total of about £15.

If you wanna see that ep you missed, I think they might show some past eps on NBC's site as well, not too sure. I wouldn't be able to access it in the UK but you would in the States. And now I really am going offline. Talk soon.

[BubblyShell22]

Gotham's on FOX, not NBC. And I probably could but it would eat up my Internet minutes, so I tend not to watch videos online because of that. That's why if they re-air it on TV, I'll catch it then.

[pharaohyami5000]

I'm still up-to-date on Gotham. Haven't posted much these days due to... reasons. *sigh* It has to be reasons.

Aww, the last episode for now will be next week? I guess it's fine, due to the holiday celebration. Too bad they couldn't think of a Christmas episode for Gotham, like Batman TAS has. And maybe the others like The Batman or Brave and Bold.

Wasn't that surprised what happened in the end of this week's episode.

[TurtleTitan97]

I really did enjoy the scenes between Bruce and Selina. as well as Penguin's scenes as usual.

[TheCanadiandrome]

yeah Bruce and Selina seem to be hitting it off

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, they definitely are. I can understand there being a fall finale as most shows do this at times. It'll probably be back in January, and if they show reruns, it'll give everyone time to catch up.

[Leo656]

I haven't seen the last couple episodes. I have the most fun watching this one when I have 3 or 4 saved up and just watch them right in a row. I like it for the most part.

Part of me has a bad feeling they're going to have Alfred be the guy who killed Bruce's parents, just for the sake of a Giant Swerve That Nobody Saw Coming (Which In Turn Makes It Super-Predictable... "The Butler Did It... GET IT?! HAH!" :roll:). They've had him be all shady and suspicious and downright mean at times. BUT, the bigger part of me thinks it's a gigantic red herring and that we're supposed to suspect him.

I'unno. It's a theory I've noticed a lot of people have and the fact that so many people seem to think that Alfred is the killer tells me I'm not just imagining it. I'll give the showrunners the benefit of the doubt, though; having it be Alfred would be Pretty F'n Stupid.

Pretty sure it's just a red herring, but we'll see.

[BubblyShell22]

I haven't seen the last couple episodes. I have the most fun watching this one when I have 3 or 4 saved up and just watch them right in a row. I like it for the most part.

Part of me has a bad feeling they're going to have Alfred be the guy who killed Bruce's parents, just for the sake of a Giant Swerve That Nobody Saw Coming (Which In Turn Makes It Super-Predictable... "The Butler Did It... GET IT?! HAH!" :roll:). They've had him be all shady and suspicious and downright mean at times. BUT, the bigger part of me thinks it's a gigantic red herring and that we're supposed to suspect him.

I'unno. It's a theory I've noticed a lot of people have and the fact that so many people seem to think that Alfred is the killer tells me I'm not just imagining it. I'll give the showrunners the benefit of the doubt, though; having it be Alfred would be Pretty F'n Stupid.

Pretty sure it's just a red herring, but we'll see.

As much as I enjoy your theory, I agree that would be a stupid twist to the plot if they did that. It would seem too obvious and a swerve that probably a lot of people saw coming if they're following the show and have their theories. Personally, I think it's someone who's working for Falcone who's behind it. And besides, Alfred was teaching Bruce to fight, so I don't think he'd do that if he killed his parents.

[Slade]

Alfred being the one to have done it...just yeah...:lol: Can't get behind that.

I may be the only one, but I thought it funny in last episode where Selina says if you can hit me, you get to kiss me. :P

[BubblyShell22]

I loved Selina's flirting with Bruce as I thought it was hilarious. I was actually expecting them to kiss.

[Slade]

I just thought it was funny because in the future they either fight or fu.....you get where I'm going..haha

[TheCanadiandrome]

ahahaha true

[BubblyShell22]

Now that you guys mention that, it does make sense.

[Raph's Girl]

Dick Greyson's parents are gonna pop up. They haven't been cast yet but they're close in age to Bruce.... cuz yeah lets have Bruce make buddies with John Greyson and Mary uh Lloyd (that's the first time I've seen her maiden name)

Also Dollmaker is gonna make an appearance.

http://comicbook.com/2014/12/17/robins-parents-a-new-dollmaker-to-appear-on-gotham/

[Raph's Girl]

Rob Gorrie has been cast as John Greyson, father of Dick Greyson!

Is it just me or does he look like Joseph Gordon-Levitt??

http://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2015/01/rob-gorrie-gotham-117309.jpg

http://comicbook.com/2015/01/08/gotham-casts-rob-gorrie-as-john-grayson/

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, he does kind of look like that. No new episode tonight due to a rerun of Empire. Ah well, I get to watch wrestling, so it's all good.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I watched this show for Penguin and the mob war, but then I found Arrow and The Flash. Now... now, I haven't seen the latest episode and I'm just not really interested. :tconfuse:

[BubblyShell22]

Hey, that's okay. It happens to all of us at times.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Dammit- my work schedule now has me working on the evenings when it airs, and I don't even get to catch the re-run night eps! I still haven't seen the eps past where Bruce and Selina had their food-fight in the Manor. Missed the assassin, and now I'm missing Pengie and his latest escapades, darn it.

[BubblyShell22]

That sucks, Duckie, and I don't think they air it in re-runs anymore. But a new episode is on this Monday and I'm stoked.

[TurtleTitan97]

I watched this show for Penguin and the mob war, but then I found Arrow and The Flash. Now... now, I haven't seen the latest episode and I'm just not really interested. :tconfuse:

I don't blame you. If I had to choose between shows that feature actual superheroing ( And in the Flash's case, super powers) and a cop show that acts as a prequel to a superhero, I'd choose the former.

If not for Penguin's story, I'd quit watching this show by now.

[Raph's Girl]

Missed the assassin, and now I'm missing Pengie and his latest escapades, darn it.

Well you could always catch em on Hulu or fox.com

[Slade]

The last episode was boring to me

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I hear ya. I just watched the latest episode today (four or five days late?) and my reaction was:

"Yup, Gotham still sucks. Cut out all of the kids and just focus on the mob war and Penguin, already!!!" But no. More Barbara; more Selina; more Ivy Pepper; more stupid pointless stories that go nowhere.

:trolleye:

Maybe if I stop watching, somebody will splice together a condensed Gotham Youtube video with nothing but the Penguin and mob war storylines. Pretty please? :tlol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I hear ya. I just watched the latest episode today (four or five days late?) and my reaction was:

"Yup, Gotham still sucks. Cut out all of the kids and just focus on the mob war and Penguin, already!!!" But no. More Barbara; more Selina; more Ivy Pepper; more stupid pointless stories that go nowhere.

:trolleye:

Maybe if I stop watching, somebody will splice together a condensed Gotham Youtube video with nothing but the Penguin and mob war storylines. Pretty please? :tlol:


More Selina? Cool. How can you not want more future-Cat-Woman? She's one of the most interesting characters on there besides Pengie. And Ivy? Awesome, I've been hoping to learn more about her, too. Penguin's NOT the only character with an interesting story- most of these are characters who will become important in one way or another, so why wouldn't we see them? Fish Moony is another one I'm really digging, though I could really care less about the mob war.


@ Raph's Girl: Hulu's hard to watch anything on unless you subscribe, because they seem to only make a few episodes available to non-members but then want you to subscribe to see more. (At least for most of the shows I've been interested in.) I've not checked Fox yet, but they only keep them up for a short time, don't they? As with Sleepy Hollow, I'm debating just waiting until the season comes out on DVD and buying the whole thing. We did that with Walking Dead, and I'm planning on getting the first season of SH, too. Gotham will probably end up on that list, as well.

[TurtleTitan97]

Gotham has been renewed for season 2: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/nailbiter111/news/?a=113783

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't like Ivy, Nygma, or Selina because they are written with zero subtlety. Every episode they're in, the writers are just screaming "GUESS WHO THIS IS!?" With Selina it hasn't been as bad as the other two, but by this point, I really don't see what the point of her character is. Oh, that's another thing: these characters don't seem to have any point of existence except being placeholders to remind us "THIS IS GOTHAM AND GUESS WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE!!"

Also, I don't personally enjoy a setting where all of Batman's villains are already on a course to become The Riddler, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy long before Batman ever shows up.

That's why I don't like Gotham. I'm glad some of you guys enjoy it though.

[Leo656]

To be fair, what are they supposed to do? Fill the cast with characters who have no connection to the mythology at all? Also, a good chunk of people watching this show have never and will never read a comic book, so you HAVE to be so over-the-top with the characterization or else they won't "get it".

Granted, I'm not totally going to disagree with how "on-the-nose" a lot of the references are. Like Selina insisting on being called "Cat", things like that are corny. I agree, the show isn't as cute or as clever as it thinks it is. But, they kind of have no choice. As it stands, people who otherwise wouldn't know, can go "Ohh, she's gonna be Catwoman... that guy's gonna be The Riddler... I wonder how that's gonna turn out?", and it gives them a reason to keep watching. Having a Batman-centric show with no Batman is already a huge risk on their part, they simply don't want to run the risk of alienating the audience by not having any "recognizable" characters.

I'm not in love with the lack of subtlety myself, but I understand it as a necessary "evil" of even doing this kind of show. Plus, I think originally they didn't even know if they were getting a second season? They didn't exactly have time to be subtle when they were laying out stuff for the first season, y'know? You need to be able to watch an episode out of context and still understand who everyone is and what's going on.

Again, I hear you, but they're kind of stuck. I think some of it's pretty corny myself, but I like what I've seen of it. It's better than I thought it'd be.

[Candy Kappa]

This is a show I just don't get the appeal, had it been set when batman was around like that comic who's name I have completely forgotten. i might have been more interested.

But, if I want to watch a Batman show without Batman, I don't need to look any further then to the already Batman rip-off Green Arrow. Although, I'm mostly watching Arrow simply cause there isn't a whole lot of Superhero shows available.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

To be honest, Leo, I can see where you're coming from. And I did enjoy Gotham more before I started watching Arrow and Flash.

To compare these shows, Arrow and Flash seem to do a much better job of subtlety and playing the long game of setup. Slade Wilson was in the show for an entire season before we ever saw him as Deathstroke!

Arrow and Flash have MUCH less name recognition than Batman, and yet they are IMO much better shows than Gotham. Also, with the characters of Bruce, Alfred, Gordon, Bullock, Montoya, Barbara, Penguin, Maroni, Falcone, and Essen (all of whom I enjoy), I feel there is plenty of name recognition to be much more subtle--or maybe not even use--major rogues. But it's as if Fox is terrified that people won't watch a show about Gotham City unless they're constantly reminding us "Batman!" I think it's much less effective and drawing in new viewers or retaining said viewers than Fox would seem to think.

To be fair, what are they supposed to do? Fill the cast with characters who have no connection to the mythology at all? Also, a good chunk of people watching this show have never and will never read a comic book, so you HAVE to be so over-the-top with the characterization or else they won't "get it".

Granted, I'm not totally going to disagree with how "on-the-nose" a lot of the references are. Like Selina insisting on being called "Cat", things like that are corny. I agree, the show isn't as cute or as clever as it thinks it is. But, they kind of have no choice. As it stands, people who otherwise wouldn't know, can go "Ohh, she's gonna be Catwoman... that guy's gonna be The Riddler... I wonder how that's gonna turn out?", and it gives them a reason to keep watching. Having a Batman-centric show with no Batman is already a huge risk on their part, they simply don't want to run the risk of alienating the audience by not having any "recognizable" characters.

I'm not in love with the lack of subtlety myself, but I understand it as a necessary "evil" of even doing this kind of show. Plus, I think originally they didn't even know if they were getting a second season? They didn't exactly have time to be subtle when they were laying out stuff for the first season, y'know? You need to be able to watch an episode out of context and still understand who everyone is and what's going on.

Again, I hear you, but they're kind of stuck. I think some of it's pretty corny myself, but I like what I've seen of it. It's better than I thought it'd be.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

To be honest, Leo, I can see where you're coming from. And I did enjoy Gotham more before I started watching Arrow and Flash.

To compare these shows, Arrow and Flash seem to do a much better job of subtlety and playing the long game of setup. Slade Wilson was in the show for an entire season before we ever saw him as Deathstroke!

Arrow and Flash have MUCH less name recognition than Batman, and yet they are IMO much better shows than Gotham. Also, with the characters of Bruce, Alfred, Gordon, Bullock, Montoya, Barbara, Penguin, Maroni, Falcone, and Essen (all of whom I enjoy), I feel there is plenty of name recognition to be much more subtle--or maybe not even use--major rogues. But it's as if Fox is terrified that people won't watch a show about Gotham City unless they're constantly reminding us "Batman!" I think it's much less effective and drawing in new viewers or retaining said viewers than Fox would seem to think.


Funny thing- I've only ever read a half-dozen Batman comics in my life, so I don't know who HALF the characters are outside a few of the "major" ones like Alfred, Riddler, Penguin, Cat-Woman, and Bullock. I get that Barbara is supposed to be Bat-Girl's mother, but beyond that, I know nothing about her- and didn't even know her name before this show. Same goes for Montoya and most of the Mob guys. As it is, I'm really enjoying seeing where many of these characters came from, and how they will end up becoming the characters everyone knows.

They didn't just spring out of a vacuum- there has to be some kind of motivation for the characters to become who they will, or Batman himself has no reason to exist. I mean, it's great that he was inspired by the death of his parents to do something about the state of the city, but then you have to ask HOW did the city get that way, and who is responsible for that? THAT'S what this show is about- it's not just "Batman the Prequel", it's GOTHAM. It' about all the little pieces that fit together to set the stage for all the stuff that comes later- from Joker, to Gordon as Commish, to Batman's activities, and even his choice to take in Robin. Looking at it as a simple prequel to Batman's career is missing half the story, I feel. It's a story about a city that is sick at its core, and how it got that way, and a man who is (way before Bruce grows up to take over the fight) trying to save it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

If they were willing to treat the show as Gotham instead of Batman the Prequel, then I would totally enjoy it a lot more.

Funny thing- I've only ever read a half-dozen Batman comics in my life, so I don't know who HALF the characters are outside a few of the "major" ones like Alfred, Riddler, Penguin, Cat-Woman, and Bullock. I get that Barbara is supposed to be Bat-Girl's mother, but beyond that, I know nothing about her- and didn't even know her name before this show. Same goes for Montoya and most of the Mob guys. As it is, I'm really enjoying seeing where many of these characters came from, and how they will end up becoming the characters everyone knows.

They didn't just spring out of a vacuum- there has to be some kind of motivation for the characters to become who they will, or Batman himself has no reason to exist. I mean, it's great that he was inspired by the death of his parents to do something about the state of the city, but then you have to ask HOW did the city get that way, and who is responsible for that? THAT'S what this show is about- it's not just "Batman the Prequel", it's GOTHAM. It' about all the little pieces that fit together to set the stage for all the stuff that comes later- from Joker, to Gordon as Commish, to Batman's activities, and even his choice to take in Robin. Looking at it as a simple prequel to Batman's career is missing half the story, I feel. It's a story about a city that is sick at its core, and how it got that way, and a man who is (way before Bruce grows up to take over the fight) trying to save it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Odd, I thought that's what they WERE doing. Bruce is only in a relatively small part of it. He's not even the focus of most of the episodes I've seen so far- Gordon is. Bruce is lucky if he's the secondary focus much of the time- Penguin seems to be getting that role. So there's your treating it as Gotham- it's about everyone BUT Bruce. With a few special appearances from the future Batman....

[TurtleTitan97]

This is a show I just don't get the appeal, had it been set when batman was around like that comic who's name I have completely forgotten. i might have been more interested.

That would be "Gotham Central". I read some of its issues awhile back, it's a pretty good comic series.

But, if I want to watch a Batman show without Batman, I don't need to look any further then to the already Batman rip-off Green Arrow. Although, I'm mostly watching Arrow simply cause there isn't a whole lot of Superhero shows available.

That's why I prefer "The Flash" series over "Arrow". It's not afraid to embrace its comic book roots and doesn't try to turn Flash into some "dark & gritty" superhero like Arrow did with Oliver.

[BubblyShell22]

I've never read a Batman comic and am only familiar with it through the movies and the show starring Adam West which my brother and our neighbor used to watch all of the time, so that's the only exposure to the franchise I have. And in essence, I see where they're coming from, and I get it. Jim Gordon is the main character and Bruce is only secondary because Gordon is the one who's trying to help the city and solve the murders of Bruce's parents, something we really haven't seen before. So I really like this. Yeah, they probably could be more subtle with the characters and who they are, but for someone like me who has only had limited exposure to Batman in general, I think it's a good way of letting people know who these people will become and how they get there. Overall, I love this show and am glad it's been renewed for a second season.

[turtlefanforever]

when does the penguin get fat? I'm not feeling this skinny dude. Loses some of his charm to me. He's a great actor but I need a fat penguin lol.

[Leo656]

Bubbly: You never even watched The Animated Series? That's... that's not "allowed"...

[Slade]

That would be "Gotham Central". I read some of its issues awhile back, it's a pretty good comic series.



That's why I prefer "The Flash" series over "Arrow". It's not afraid to embrace its comic book roots and doesn't try to turn Flash into some "dark & gritty" superhero like Arrow did with Oliver.

Pretty sure it wasn't the show that started that.

[TurtleTitan97]

Pretty sure it wasn't the show that started that.

I know that. But I'm just saying that I'm glad they didn't go that route with the Flash.

[Slade]

I gotcha. I am too. I don't think the show would have worked at all if they did.

[BubblyShell22]

Bubbly: You never even watched The Animated Series? That's... that's not "allowed"...

Nope. Never watched it at all. I was probably watching other stuff when it was on.

[TheCanadiandrome]

when does the penguin get fat? I'm not feeling this skinny dude. Loses some of his charm to me. He's a great actor but I need a fat penguin lol.

Lol then you must've missed the 60s series then eh? Lol. Burgess Meredith played Penquin amazingly and he wasn't fat either

[Raph's Girl]

And the next Bat-villain to appear in Gotham isssss..... The Red Hood! Now the question is... which Red Hood?? There's been a bunch of em! Course the most well known ones are Joker and Jason Todd...

http://www.superherohype.com/news/327465-gotham-ep-reveals-the-red-hood-is-coming

[Slade]

Well, it can't be Jason Todd..

[Raph's Girl]

Former "Heroes" cast member Milo Ventimiglia has been cast on "Gotham" as a serial killer known as The Ogre (no relation to the comic character). Described as "Handsome, wealthy and seductive, the Ogre is a serial killer who has been preying on the young women of Gotham for nearly a decade, luring them into his web and confronting them with a series of “tests” as he searches for his perfect mate. When the women fail to live up to his impossible standard, Lennon disposes of them quickly and viciously."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=59041

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I think I know where this problem's show lies: it tries too hard to be an origin story.

If you cut out the superhero elements, cut out Ivy, cut out Bruce Wayne, cut out the Wayne murders... you've got a solid show about some detectives (Nigma, Gordon, whatever the boss' name is, and Bullock) trying to do some good police work, all while the balance of power in terms of crime is shifting.

But Nigma is too deliberately set up to be the Riddler. The writers clearly have no idea what to do with Bruce Wayne anymore. Any superhumans in the show seem out of place and frankly just stupid. It doesn't work with all that crap. The show could be a lot more interesting without Batman references left and right.

Seeing Penguin stuck with those singing Church ladies last episode made me laugh. I don't know who the actor for Penguin is, but he's really talented.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Without Robin Lord Taylor, Gotham wouldn't have made it past the pilot episode. He is seriously carrying the entire show... and he is damn good.

I think I know where this problem's show lies: it tries too hard to be an origin story.

If you cut out the superhero elements, cut out Ivy, cut out Bruce Wayne, cut out the Wayne murders... you've got a solid show about some detectives (Nigma, Gordon, whatever the boss' name is, and Bullock) trying to do some good police work, all while the balance of power in terms of crime is shifting.

But Nigma is too deliberately set up to be the Riddler. The writers clearly have no idea what to do with Bruce Wayne anymore. Any superhumans in the show seem out of place and frankly just stupid. It doesn't work with all that crap. The show could be a lot more interesting without Batman references left and right.

Seeing Penguin stuck with those singing Church ladies last episode made me laugh. I don't know who the actor for Penguin is, but he's really talented.

[Leo656]

But if there weren't blatant Batman references everywhere, nobody'd watch the show. So there's that.

There's already like 80 CSI shows. Without the gimmick, this show has zero audience. Fact.

[Slade]

Yeah, I have to agree. Without the Batman stuff, I wouldn't watch Gotham..of course withought the Batman stuff, it probably wouldn't be called Gotham either..

[TurtleTitan97]

Compared to all the other DC shows currently airing, Gotham is honestly the weakest by far in term or storytelling and such. Penguin's pretty much the only reason to watch this show.

Heck, I haven't even been keeping up with this series since the 11th episode, and I've felt no urge whatsoever to even watch the newer ones unlike episodes of The Flash or even Arrow.

If they really wanted to make a cop show about the Gotham Police, they should have just adapted the Gotham Central comics. At least that way Batman would still have some kind of presence as well as the fact that his villians already exist.

[BubblyShell22]

I didn't watch it this past week due to it being my birthday and I wanted to watch wrestling instead. I do think it's an okay show, but now I just don't know where they're going to go with it. I think if Fish had stayed captured for a bit longer, it would have been better. Same goes with the Gruber guy and his going straight to the police station. All of that seemed anti-climatic to me, and it really made no sense. So, yeah, I can definitely agree that some of the storytelling is fairly weak at times.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

As I've already said, there IS good Batman material in "Gotham", especially (mainly?) Penguin.

Then there is annoying/poorly-written Batman material, which unfortunately is a longer list: "Cat", "Ivy", Nygma, Barbara. Although I do go back and forth on Selina Kyle... if they could just tone her down a bit.

Overall, the show's crime of the week stories SUCK. Death by balloon; death by looking inside a pointy stick... ugh.

[Leonardo322]

I wonder how well a show like this would work if it was about Peter Parker before he was Spider-Man.

[TurtleTitan97]

I wonder how well a show like this would work if it was about Peter Parker before he was Spider-Man.

That would be horrible and completely boring.

[Leo656]

Episode after episode of Peter getting stuffed into lockers by Flash Thompson, and Aunt May asking him if he remembered to pick up eggs on the way home. And every night, he'd watch MJ or Gwen (whoever they'd pick for the show) change through her window like a peeping Tom without ever knowing her name, but pining for her nonetheless, while the look on his face and the dramatic music they played would never let the viewer forget, "Yeah, One Day this will all be Super Important." Also, constant contrived situations forcing Peter to utter some variance of, "Spiders? I HATE spiders!" Because of course.

Yeah... yeah that'd be f*cking terrible.

[Leonardo322]

Oh gosh yeah that would be a terrible show. :lol: If it was a real show, I can imagine a focus on the lives of the super villains before they were the villains. Maybe show Dock Ock working on the robot squid arms. I like your description of episode content, Leo656. LOL.

[Spike Spiegel]

Episode after episode of Peter getting stuffed into lockers by Flash Thompson, and Aunt May asking him if he remembered to pick up eggs on the way home. And every night, he'd watch MJ or Gwen (whoever they'd pick for the show) change through her window like a peeping Tom without ever knowing her name, but pining for her nonetheless, while the look on his face and the dramatic music they played would never let the viewer forget, "Yeah, One Day this will all be Super Important."

You've described some aspects of "Bates Motel," that A&E series that shows the origin of Norman Bates.

[Leo656]

Never seen it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

So, tonight's episode was- interesting. Loved Penguin (as usual), Fish is taking charge again, I see. (Where is she? I missed a few eps, and need to catch up.) Was not a big fan of the stuff with Crane Sr. (Adrenaline doesn't work that way, ugh....), and I was a little confused about what Bruce's outing was all about. Malone and Falcone's parts were interesting, and the entire thing seems to be slowly weaving together into something bigger. Pengie is definitely up to something with the club, not to mention his dealings with Gordon and the Mob, but that's sort of a given by now. Good ep, I just wish I wasn't so far out of the loop on the last four or five.

[Leo656]

Our Hopper crapped out right before Christmas and erased all our DVR'd stuff, so I'm just waiting for the DVDs now. It's a good show but once I miss a few episodes of anything I can't just jump back into it without being caught up. Same thing with Flash, etc.

It's weird, I pretty much never, ever watch shows when they're on anymore. I don't even really try, because if I miss a week, I'm lost.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Today was actually the first time I've been able to watch it in several weeks. Since before the hiatus, actually. But I was lucky enough to have today off to watch it and Sleepy Hollow, which I've also been following (when I can). My hubby watched every episode of both, though, and usually tells me what's going on. Will definitely be getting both shows on DVD, if only to see all the ones I missed!

[BubblyShell22]

I was watching Gotham, but when it looked like the guy was going to either eat or drink the adrenal glands, I pretty much changed the channel and didn't turn it back.

[Storm Eagle]

I'm pretty upset for Jonathan. What happened to him is just messed up.

I'm wondering just how many others besides me just don't care about the mob thing between Marconi and Falcone. I'm kind of lost with the whole thing.

I knew the Joker would be showing up this season. From information I saw though, I didn't expect him this early.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Still haven't gotten back to watching this, probably never will now... last episode I saw was Episode #12, I think. Let me know if anything interesting happens! :tlol:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I was watching Gotham, but when it looked like the guy was going to either eat or drink the adrenal glands, I pretty much changed the channel and didn't turn it back.


No, he didn't eat them. He used them to distill the adrenaline and inject it into himself and later into his son. Still kinda' gross, but less so than eating or drinking them, LOL!

[Slade]

The Penguin stuff in this show was great for a while, but it's dragging on to me. Something has to happen tongue this dude a spine...
I doubt he's ever gonna pop Falcone and Maroni.

I must not have paid enough attention to the episode before last. Didn't even know that was Crane.

Next weeks though, I gotta see.

[Bry]

Episode after episode of Peter getting stuffed into lockers by Flash Thompson, and Aunt May asking him if he remembered to pick up eggs on the way home. And every night, he'd watch MJ or Gwen (whoever they'd pick for the show) change through her window like a peeping Tom without ever knowing her name, but pining for her nonetheless, while the look on his face and the dramatic music they played would never let the viewer forget, "Yeah, One Day this will all be Super Important."

So... basically Smallville without the powers?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

The Penguin stuff in this show was great for a while, but it's dragging on to me. Something has to happen tongue this dude a spine...
I doubt he's ever gonna pop Falcone and Maroni.

I must not have paid enough attention to the episode before last. Didn't even know that was Crane.

Next weeks though, I gotta see.

You didn't notice all the Scarecrow imagery, or how he was obsessed with fear? Yeah, I thought it WAS Scarecrow until they mentioned his son. Then it hit me- it was Jonathan Crane, not- whatever the dad's name was. And WHY oh WHY, would someone pick up a gun and come at a pair of cops, no matter HOW fearless they are? That's not lack of fear, that's pure stupidity. He HAD to know they'd shoot him especially once he started aiming. Fearless or not, it don't do you any good if you're dead, moron.....

It's kind of a slow-burn type of show, to be sure, much like Walking Dead, but I like that. They definitely seem to be building to something, and I'm guessing it's going to involve Pengie taking over one or both of Falcone and Maroni's factions, or pitting them against each other somehow to take over when the dust settles. It looks like Bruce will be finding the "Batcave" soon, if that little outing is any indication. I was kind of expecting him to do it in that last episode, to be honest, but maybe they're saving that for later.

And yeah, I hope I can see the next one. One word- Joker!! 'Nuff said.

[Slade]

You didn't notice all the Scarecrow imagery, or how he was obsessed with fear? Yeah, I thought it WAS Scarecrow until they mentioned his son. Then it hit me- it was Jonathan Crane, not- whatever the dad's name was. And WHY oh WHY, would someone pick up a gun and come at a pair of cops, no matter HOW fearless they are? That's not lack of fear, that's pure stupidity. He HAD to know they'd shoot him especially once he started aiming. Fearless or not, it don't do you any good if you're dead, moron.....

It's kind of a slow-burn type of show, to be sure, much like Walking Dead, but I like that. They definitely seem to be building to something, and I'm guessing it's going to involve Pengie taking over one or both of Falcone and Maroni's factions, or pitting them against each other somehow to take over when the dust settles. It looks like Bruce will be finding the "Batcave" soon, if that little outing is any indication. I was kind of expecting him to do it in that last episode, to be honest, but maybe they're saving that for later.

And yeah, I hope I can see the next one. One word- Joker!! 'Nuff said.

Nah, I literrraly paid no attention to the episode before. It was basically on as background noise.

[TheCanadiandrome]

I knew the Joker would be showing up this season. From information I saw though, I didn't expect him this early.

yeah he looks like a kid from the preview

[BubblyShell22]

No, he didn't eat them. He used them to distill the adrenaline and inject it into himself and later into his son. Still kinda' gross, but less so than eating or drinking them, LOL!

Well, it looked like he was either going to eat or drink it, and I decided I didn't want to see that, so I turned it. Ah, well, not a big loss honestly. I might watch next week's though.

[Raph's Girl]

And so the first season has ended.

Riddler has lost whatever sanity he had and Barbara is nuttier than a fruitcake as well.

But hey.. it's all good because THOMAS WAYNE HID THE ENTRANCE TO THE BAT CAVE BEHIND THE FIREPLACE?! Not even Alfred knew about Thomas' secret side! Lucius Fox sure as heck did apparantly! So yeah the season ends with Alfred and Bruce finding the stairs to the bat cave... :o

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I was a bit surprised by the ending. Didn't expect Fish to end up AS one, LOL! Lots of mobsters dead, city will probably be in flux now, and that was an odd twist for Selena. I must have missed where she joined Fish, because I don't recall anything setting that up. Nygma is crackers, Barbara seems t have also cracked (or maybe this explains Jim Jr.) and- well, I really hope this gets renewed for a second season!

[Slade]

I didn't catch it, but I'm guessing the ep was good?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Can someone point me to video clips of all the Penguin goodness? :tlol:

[Raph's Girl]

I really hope this gets renewed for a second season!

It was renewed in January. :)

Also, Selena joined Fish when Fish showed up in a boat on shore where the street kids were getting warm by a barrel fire at the beginning of the episode. Then Fish spent 2 weeks recruiting and getting 90's Storm hair.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ah. I came in about five minutes into it, due to taking a nap when I got home from work, and my hubby didn't wake me until it had already started. Okay, that explains it, then. Thanks. Two weeks? She moves pretty quick! Also, loved the new look for her, too!

[Slade]

I caught the ep today. It was pretty good. I was pleased. Though, now I need to check into all this Thomas Wayne already having the cave built and things like that. But, I liked it.

[Krutch]

I think I'm done with this show.

I'll watch the season premiere next season and if it doesn't do something big to hook me, I'm out.