Another movie from Platinum Dunes in the works - new writer hired

[Prowler]

They better redesign the Turtles so they're not 4 Hulks with nostrils again. The noses and nostrils were so hideous and morally offensive that I was mentally traumatized by them back in 2014. It's now nearly 5 years later and let's just say the wounds have not quite yet fully healed.
Yes, yes. Old CyberCubed is back! :tgrin:

[IndigoErth]

lol Old Cubed finally has reason to come Out of the Shadows.

Aw, the nostril-having isn't so bad... in the right scenes. Too bad such right scenes were the exception to the rule.

https://i.imgur.com/0NRNyu7.jpg?1

I do at least genuinely love this shot (albeit cropped) and admit it makes me miss this version if he is likely no more.



“Did you just give something away?” Fuller said. “Oh boy. We did the preceding two Turtle movies, but I didn’t know that we were saying that we’re making it, but that’s good to know!”
So I guess until now Fuller was completely in the dark when we were told last June that they'd hired a writer for a reboot?


And no, definitely no high expectations. Being twice bitten really kind of makes that hard, it not impossible. HOPES, but high levels of skepticism until they prove themselves on this one...or not.




https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/a-quiet-place-producers-are-rebooting-the-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-again
"I'm gonna say something I've never said before," added Fuller when asked why the TMNT franchise keeps on perpetuating itself. "The thing about the Turtles, it's the same thing about A Quiet Place. It's about a family and [the audience] being invested in a family. They are both family stories about the family sticking together and supporting one another."
"I'm gonna say something I've never said before..." Huh? Did he only recently finally come to understand that...?

[Leo656]

I've never seen a single head shot of those Turtles that doesn't make me gag.

The visual designs for those two films were trash from the start. The fact that they apparently used a cheap "CGI For Dummies" program to draw them didn't help, but there was no way to make any of that junk look good. Faces were wrong, proportions were wrong, scale was wrong, "costumes" (ugh) were wrong... Not even DaVinci could've turned that sh*t into a masterpiece.

I remember when the first pics of the Halloween costumes for the BayTurtles movie leaked... and everyone flipped out at how awful they were... and then it turned out that the movie designs were even uglier. :lol: Didn't even seem possible!

[TigerClaw]

I'm sure the Turtles will still be CGI. And since they are rebooting it. Its better if they just skip the origin this time. I don't know how many times we have to see the same origin over and over with each reboot. So they should find a way to quickly tell the origin. Maybe in the opening credits. There's so many other things they can do with a reboot that doesn't have to repeat what's already been establish.

Rise of the TMNT does not start with an origin at all. it just starts with them already being around.

[Leo656]

Well, the last one didn't tell "The Origin", it made up a crappy new one that won't have anything to do (hopefully) with whatever story they come up with next. The last movie to even deal with the "proper" origin was 25 years ago.

WE have seen 80 different versions of the origin, but the general movie-going public hasn't necessarily. I'd maintain that there's still plenty of room to tell the story PROPERLY for a wider audience.

I always think of my Dad in situations like this. I loved going to see movies with him, but he was as casual as casual gets, so whenever we watched a comic book movie, he'd always constantly ask, "Wait, that's not like the comics, was it?" "No, absolutely not." "Well what'd they do that for, then? Stupid." If I need Cliff's Notes to explain to someone why your dumb movie has nothing to do with the source material, your story is bad.

The most "revolutionary" thing they could actually do, at this point, would be to start from Square One with a proper retelling. I have zero faith that they'll do this; rather, they'll probably get even further away from the source.

I'll bet you anything that right this very minute, someone is in a room saying to a bunch of other nitwits, "Y'know... we didn't even TRY making the Turtles aliens from Dimension X... the fact that the last two movies didn't do great is proof that we should have stuck to our guns." Because Hollywood only takes the wrong lesson from everything. So yeah, expect that or something similar.

MOST people sitting in the theater won't have any idea about the Turtles' origins, so there's absolutely always room for the first film in a new series to retell it. The question is, are they actually gonna play it straight, or f*ck it up?

They REALLY wanted to Turtles to be aliens. The last actual "script" for a TMNT movie (that anyone can prove exists), was that script. That's the last time they cared enough about the story to put words on paper before shooting. That should really say it all.

[Andrew NDB]

They put Vernon Fenwick in a movie. Then they did it again.

That's really all I need to know about where peoples' heads are with these "films" to know that they are absolutely, positively not for me.

[IndigoErth]

And even then it was just barely Vernon. Arnett feels like an okay fit for a role in a TMNT film imo, but that literally could have been any new character because it never really felt like Vernon.



Don't they dare go back to the Turtles as aliens idea... :tsad:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

They put Vernon Fenwick in a movie. Then they did it again.

That's really all I need to know about where peoples' heads are with these "films" to know that they are absolutely, positively not for me.

Because what's a Ninja Turtles movie without Vernon Fvckwit?

[Prowler]

And even then it was just barely Vernon. Arnett feels like an okay fit for a role in a TMNT film imo, but that literally could have been any new character because it never really felt like Vernon.



Don't they dare go back to the Turtles as aliens idea... :tsad:

Or White Shredder.

[IndigoErth]

Or Robo Shredder.


edit: And old man Shredder who raised old guy Eric Sachs and "was like a father to him," then turned young in the second film. In short -- age conflicts. No. lol

[ranger_scout]

Jared Krichevsky, who also worked on Maleficent, was apparently the artist who came up with the idea to give them different kinds of clothing and gadgets to wear. I know that the majority of users on this board were not fans of that movie either.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/teenage_mutant_ninja_turtles/exclusive-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-concept-art-by-jared-krichevsky-a109641

[Krutch]

Man, I hope they just skip over the origin altogether if possible. Honestly I've never liked any of them. I think the origin is the worst part of the TMNT mythos. No matter the incarnation it always feels convoluted as hell. Then again, if you skip the origin, you miss out on that personal connection between Shredder and Splinter. So we're doomed to forever see reimaginings to bring us to the status quo. Ah well.

I'm wildly indifferent to this reboot until I see something. The producers don't give me any hope, and the writer doesn't have enough experience to give a fair assessment (though I did enjoy Bad Words for whatever thats worth).

But yeah, I can't even think of what kind of news they can deliver that would get me hyped. IDW Turtles? Mirage Turtles? TMNT: Into the Turtleverse? All of these things would fall flat for me. I'm not gonna get invested in this until I see which director gets attached. My guess is it'll be someone with no real success or failure to their name. It'll be like "From the director of xXx: Return of Xander Cage". Yay.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong but yeah, my hearts just not in it anymore.

[Leo656]

I'll never understand the recent trend of people hating origin stories. Historically, they're usually the best and most interesting story in a characters' entire catalog; it's generally downhill from there, or at least meandering and repetitive.

I mean, I guess I can almost understand the, "But I've seen it a thousand times!" perspective, but... I'unno. They're necessary. ((shrug))

[Krutch]

I like origin movies. I just have never liked any origin of the TMNT.

[Leo656]

Which is kinda weird, because with the origin intact, the whole TMNT story is only MOSTLY stupid. :trazz: Without it, it's completely stupid. I feel like that's the only thing grounding it, so it's SUPER important to get it right.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'll never understand the recent trend of people hating origin stories. Historically, they're usually the best and most interesting story in a characters' entire catalog; it's generally downhill from there, or at least meandering and repetitive.

I mean, I guess I can almost understand the, "But I've seen it a thousand times!" perspective, but... I'unno. They're necessary. ((shrug))

Yeah, I'm still waiting to see a GOOD TMNT film with their origin. I'm also waiting on Michael Jordan and Larry Bird to ask me out for a game of pickup basketball.

My guess is it'll be someone with no real success or failure to their name. It'll be like "From the director of xXx: Return of Xander Cage". Yay.

Even THAT would be an improvement over what we last had. :tlol:

[Leolead]

Just give me a dark TMNT, please.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I'm still waiting to see a GOOD TMNT film with their origin. I'm also waiting on Michael Jordan and Larry Bird to ask me out for a game of pickup basketball.


The first movie was good. Stop it.

That's another new-ish trend I can't abide, people insisting that the 1990 movie was bad. Good grief.

[Prowler]

At this point I don't even know what TMNT is anymore. I know some of you love the Multiverses thing, but having a billion different versions of the story, characters, etc. can't be a good thing. People begin to question what the identity of the characters truly is.

It's like the only things that should be unchangeable in the eyes of the audience are pizza and cracking jokes every 3 minutes.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Just give me a dark TMNT, please.

Never happen, man. You gotta lower them expectations.

"Just give me a not-$hitty TMNT, please."

...

Actually, that's still too high. Lower.

"Just give me a non-kiddy TMNT, please, even if it sucks."

...

Nope, we're still not low enough.

[TigerClaw]

They need to get Travis Knight to direct this TMNT reboot. He did such an awesome job for Bumblebee.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The first movie was good. Stop it.

That's another new-ish trend I can't abide, people insisting that the 1990 movie was bad. Good grief.

It's not BAD, it's just not good enough. Leo and Don barely do anything in the movie, it was all Raph for character development and Mike for comic relief.

And those baby Turtle puppets, shiver. :tlol:

So I'll give it 3.5 or 4 out of 5 stars, but there were still some flaws.

[Prowler]

It's not BAD, it's just not good enough. Leo and Don barely do anything in the movie, it was all Raph for character development and Mike for comic relief.

And those baby Turtle puppets, shiver. :tlol:

So I'll give it 3.5 or 4 out of 5 stars, but there were still some flaws.

I really liked how Raph got a lot of attention in the movie since he was my favourite Turtle, but Donatello disappointed me. Corey Feldman as Donatello was just...

[Leo656]

At this point I don't even know what TMNT is anymore. I know some of you love the Multiverses thing, but having a billion different versions of the story, characters, etc. can't be a good thing. People begin to question what the identity of the characters truly is.

I agree, generally. On one hand, it gives creators a nice "out" for when things don't match - "OH! That story happened on Earth-_!" - but in practice, all it does is confuse the ever-loving sh*t out of new fans.

I grew up in the 80s as a DC fan, when they'd just recently wiped out their entire Multiverse in favor of one set continuity, and any earlier stories that didn't fit were simply discarded as "imaginary". Some people threw a fit, but I can tell you from experience, there has NEVER been an easier time period to break into a fandom than being a DC fan in the Post-Crisis years. Not just speaking for myself, but for the many people I've turned on to comics by providing them stories from that era (and ONLY that era; let 'em figure the rest out for themselves if they want, I'm not trying to confuse anyone who's just getting started after all).

When even Superman and Batman have twenty different origin stories, it's beyond nonsense. Conceptually, I understand the "need" for a Multiverse, but in practice, it only actually works if you don't actually use it. "Well, the REAL stories take place on Earth-1... we have a bunch of other ones, but we only tinker with them once every few years for maximum contrast." That's the only way it works, otherwise you just confuse people with all the contradictory stuff.

George Carlin said it best: "Too many choices isn't healthy."

It's not BAD, it's just not good enough. Leo and Don barely do anything in the movie, it was all Raph for character development and Mike for comic relief.

And those baby Turtle puppets, shiver. :tlol:

So I'll give it 3.5 or 4 out of 5 stars, but there were still some flaws.

I'll take any puppets over CGI, any day, all day, every day.

Leo had an arc. It was parallel to Raph's and not as pronounced, but he had an arc, so that's alright.

It damn well BETTER be "good enough", because I got news for you and everybody else: That's the all-time best TMNT movie you're ever gonna get, and if that don't make you happy, then jump ship and bring a vest.

I know, I know... "You like to complain." :trazz: Well, enjoy, this franchise will definitely keep you busy forever if THAT's your bag. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'll take any puppets over CGI, any day, all day, every day.

Leo had an arc. It was parallel to Raph's and not as pronounced, but he had an arc, so that's alright.

It damn well BETTER be "good enough", because I got news for you and everybody else: That's the all-time best TMNT movie you're ever gonna get, and if that don't make you happy, then jump ship and bring a vest.

I know, I know... "You like to complain." :trazz: Well, enjoy, this franchise will definitely keep you busy forever if THAT's your bag. :lol:

Oh, definitely. The Henson suits still stand up to this day! But those puppets were not on the same level.

If Leo's arc is there, it's extremely subtle... I haven't watched it in a few years, but I'll keep an eye out. I don't remember him getting to do much except take care of Raph after the defeat and spearhead things out at Northampton. Other than that, goofy jokes with Donny and Mike.

And you're right. It IS the best TMNT film we'll ever get. Unless somebody like Guillermo de Toro, James Gunn, or James Wan or somebody with some heft steps up and says "Gimme those damn Turtles, I can make a killer movie with them."

Honestly, that's what it's going to take. Somebody with cred and a rep stepping up and delivering it. "From the director of GOTG/Hellboy/Aquaman" or some $hit.

I don't look at it as complaining; I look at it as having extremely high expectations.

[Krutch]

Which is kinda weird, because with the origin intact, the whole TMNT story is only MOSTLY stupid. :trazz: Without it, it's completely stupid. I feel like that's the only thing grounding it, so it's SUPER important to get it right.It’s like the Rube Goldberg Machine of origin stories. A young boy carrying turtles gets pushed out of the way by another boy (possibly Matt Murdock) to save a blind man from getting hit by a truck causing the turtles to fall safely down a sewer before the truck doors fly open, hurling a bottle of alien ooze down the drain onto the turtles, where a rat who knew martial arts (pre-mutation!) was collecting them (for some reason) to later train them to be lethal assassins.

And that’s only the second half of the origin story.

Look, i love TMNT above and beyond all other comic book properties but that’s a freakin’ reeeeaaaach, man.

[Shinigami]

I'll never understand the recent trend of people hating origin stories. Historically, they're usually the best and most interesting story in a characters' entire catalog; it's generally downhill from there, or at least meandering and repetitive.

I mean, I guess I can almost understand the, "But I've seen it a thousand times!" perspective, but... I'unno. They're necessary. ((shrug))

But I’ve seen it a thousand times!

[Shinigami]

I really liked how Raph got a lot of attention in the movie since he was my favourite Turtle, but Donatello disappointed me. Corey Feldman as Donatello was just...

Donatello has always been my favorite turtle and 1990 has always been my favorite movie, but I HATE Corey Feldman as Donnie! Makes no sense whatsoever. He could maybe be Mikey, but I’d never give up Robbie Rist.

[Leo656]

It’s like the Rube Goldberg Machine of origin stories. A young boy carrying turtles gets pushed out of the way by another boy (possibly Matt Murdock) to save a blind man from getting hit by a truck causing the turtles to fall safely down a sewer before the truck doors fly open, hurling a bottle of alien ooze down the drain onto the turtles, where a rat who knew martial arts (pre-mutation!) was collecting them (for some reason) to later train them to be lethal assassins.

And that’s only the second half of the origin story.

Look, i love TMNT above and beyond all other comic book properties but that’s a freakin’ reeeeaaaach, man.

- An entire council of scientists refuses to pay any attention to, allegedly, the smartest of them all, when he says the entire planet is about to explode, despite visible evidence of such happening more or less rightoverthere. Scientist believes the best hope for salvation is to strap his newborn son into a bottle rocket and slingshot him through a wormhole, in the hopes that he'll land somewhere a little warmer, and thus maybe, just maybe, he'll be able to shoot lasers out of his eyes when he's old enough. Planet full of dumbasses explodes about five minutes after they all looked out the window and unanimously decided nothing was wrong.

- As an extension of same, godlike alien being lands on Earth as a baby. Grows up and decides NOT to take over the world, declare himself "Lord Super King Big Nuts", and kill anyone who looks at him sideways, as any normal person would. No, he instead puts on a brightly-colored diving suit and devotes his life to getting cats out of trees, because his adopted parents taught him to say "Please" and "Thank You."

- 10-year old rich boy watches his parents get murdered in front of him. So, he maintains a state of arrested development, spends his teenage years drinking away the pain and sticking needles in his arm while casually using women for sex and buying his way out of a series of increasingly-felonious behavior, all while claiming that he's entitled to act this way because of the lousy hand life dealt him, then finally drops dead at 26 from a fatal overdose because that's how it goes in real life, right? NO, you silly goose! He instead spends his teen years studying and training hard enough to be a world-class expert in literally EVERY thing, so he can put on a Halloween costume and get revenge on the guy who killed his parents by... beating the sh*t out of many, many people who are NOT That Guy. Because that's logical and rational.

- Nerd gets bit by radioactive spider. Rather than kill him, it makes him awesome. SO awesome, his hands and feet stick to walls despite the fact that he's wearing gloves and boots! Nerd develops incredibly powerful and unique adhesive agent; keeps it to himself, rather than patent it and make millions of dollars. Has sex with and marries a supermodel, despite being an unemployed photographer (this part is the MOST implausible thing in the entire story, or ANY story ever told).

- Police scientist gets hit by lightning AND an entire rack of chemicals. Does NOT instantly become a puddle of fried guts and pus. Instead, suffers NO physical damage, but can now move fast enough to go back in time and f*ck everything up for everyone else because he misses his Mommy.
-------------------

I could go on for days. :trazz: Point being, ANYthing is stupid if you go into it refusing to play along with the premise.

This has also gotta be the Very First Time I've talked to anyone who's actually read more than three comics in their life who has put TMNT at the top. I mean, you do you, but... having read at least some of each TMNT series, I frankly don't think ANY of it is very good. ((Shrugs))

Not knocking you, but I could never even consider the notion that TMNT are any better than Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Flash... feel free to try and explain it, I probably won't change my mind but I'd definitely be interested in hearing the How and Why.
-------------

Feldman's the only Donatello who's not a complete dweeb, y'all motherf*ckers need Jesus. :lol:

[Galactus]

I think it's more likely we'll get a comedy oriented pixar/Disney like CG TMNT film than a movie anyone here wants to see.

Can't see an animated movie happening.

Going back and forth between live action and animated movies is just going to confuse people. Before anyone draws a comparison to Spider-Man having both a live action and animated movie series running at the same time, Spider-Man is a character who can support it.

Not to mention for all the praise Into The Spider-Verse is getting (deservedly so) while a commercial success it wont make the kind of bank the live action features will. I don't think Viacom bought the franchise to make small change.

What I sense is, they can tell that the bloom is already off the rose, "New Turtlemania" is dying fast, and they want to rush out one more movie and cash in while people still care at all, and after that the fans are probably in for another "long winter". The moves they're making across the board are not consistent with people who feel they have an "evergreen" property that's just been slightly mishandled; they're consistent with desperate people who are worried they're running out of ways to milk the cow.

This third era of turtle revival is already dead as far as I'm concerned. We're in the Next Mutation/Fast Forward phase of things. Let's do something drastically different in a last ditch effort to launch another wave.

More than that I think they blew their one chance of launching a big movie series for this generation.

As much as everything we heard of the 2014 movie sent up big red flags at least people were talking. As trash as that trailer was I still had a tinge of excitement of "wow it's actually real. TMNT in a modern big budget movie". Crappy designs aside it was pretty cool seeing Leo somersault off the water tower. I imagine for a lot of young kids who loved the 2012 animated series it was their first time seeing these characters in a real environment, not a cartoon and feeling like I did when I first saw clips of the then upcoming 1990 TMNT movie and thinking it looked real which was of course the huge selling point of the original movie that they even put it on the poster "Hey dudes, this is no cartoon".

Problem is you can't unsee all of that. It's more than just those movies sucked and people are cynical about the next reboot it's just you can't replicate that feeling again. Even if the cgi is better and designs are on point, even if a minor miracle happens and it's actually good it's not going to have quite the same impact.

It’s like the Rube Goldberg Machine of origin stories. A young boy carrying turtles gets pushed out of the way by another boy (possibly Matt Murdock) to save a blind man from getting hit by a truck causing the turtles to fall safely down a sewer before the truck doors fly open, hurling a bottle of alien ooze down the drain onto the turtles, where a rat who knew martial arts (pre-mutation!) was collecting them (for some reason) to later train them to be lethal assassins.

And that’s only the second half of the origin story.

Look, i love TMNT above and beyond all other comic book properties but that’s a freakin’ reeeeaaaach, man.

See, I actually think TMNT's origin story works perfectly for a movie. It already does what most Hollywood adaptions of the comic book movies do if it's not already in the source and connect their heroes to their antagonists because it arguably makes a better narrative arc.

Joken kills Bruce Wayne's parents (Batman '89) Ra's Al Ghul trains Bruce Wayne (Batman Begins) Otto Octavius is Peter Parker's teacher (Spider-Man 2) Curt Conners worked with Peter's father (Amazing Spider-Man) Tony Stark creates Ultron (Avengers 2) and so on. It's not always necessary to make a good movie but material is ripe for a movie.

The second part with their mutation is stupid, not really that much more stupid than most superhero origins but I've always maintained there are ways to frame that so it doesn't seem so ridiculous.

Imagine Splinter and the four adolescent turtles going to whats left of Yoshi and Shen's apartment. Splinter looks at a a photo of Yoshi and Shen and we see his sadness. He walks downstairs to the dojo and picks up katana that's fallen from the weapons rack - we see a flash of memory of Yoshi practicing with it - we wanders over to other fallen weapons - we see more flashes of Yoshi practicing various martial arts moves - he looks back at the four turtles we know what he's going to do.

Something like that would make the whole rat knows ninjitsu thing seem more realistic and maybe even a little bad ass.

I'm a traditionalist so I'd prefer something along the lines of the comic book origin with the ooze but it doesn't have to be that way. For all the meltdowns of Bay making the turtles and Splinter aliens I maintain if that was the only change it might have been okay. The hate Bay received for that is that we knew it wasn't going to that way.

Same with a lab origin. It may be fanboy kewl but them being parts of some kind of animal testing for a super soldier scheme programming Yoshi's martial arts skills into Splinter and increasing his and the turtles strength would have been fine. A traffic accident moving the test animals to the beta site sends the turtles and Splinter down the sewers and we can begin.

The why is really more important than the how. That's something both Platinum Dunes movies really screwed up with. What motivates these characters to fight each other.

[Leo656]

Part of me feels like what they're doing now, is simply scraping together what was left of the last series and trying to get SOME money back, hoping they can finagle a reboot under the gun and at least get SOMEthing out before the original deal expires. It's usually a situation where "We need Movie X done and in theaters by Y, or else a bunch of guys in suits don't get a bonus." It's all already on paper, so the actual movie itself (and the quality thereof) is an afterthought in the big picture of "Bitches Gots Ta Get Paid."

With the timing of it being so "smooshed", whatever movie they're racing to get started on was almost certainly, originally, the third BayTurtles film. The timing makes sense; it's a little wider gap than there was between the first two, but still close enough so that it feels like it's right where the third movie would go. Plus, we already know there was a sequel penciled in based on all the unfinished business at the end of the second one, and they were talking trilogy from the beginning.

This is almost certainly NOT a "start from scratch" job; this is an "Amazing Spider-Man comes out on the date we more or less had Spider-Man 4 slotted for, but it's a reboot Because Reasons and we did the best we could with 5 minutes of prep time to start an entirely new franchise, please don't be mad at us" type of situation.

A friendly reminder, that I and only I liked ASM, and that movies that are made under these conditions are almost unanimously awful.

[ranger_scout]

Oh, I absolutely love that that's what happened. And it absolutely deserved to.



And I'm sure that you must have been devastated when TMNT, a film that mostly drew inspiration from the 2003 TV series and the comics, didn't get a sequel.

[Leo656]

I personally didn't see TMNT 2007 take any inspiration from anything except "a bunch of guys who've never read or watched TMNT before, sitting in a board room, trying to cram an entirely unrelated and just-cancelled CGI kids movie about monsters into a TMNT movie, with the 'TMNT' stuff all pulled from Wikipedia."

I like it okay, but I don't see any Mirage or 4kids influence at all, outside of Karai being in it, and she bore zero resemblance to any other Karai. That movie's biggest problem was that it was entirely its own thing, when it really should have been a straight continuation of one of the pre-existing TMNT "brands", if they wanted it to make any money at the time.

I'unno man. I don't see it.

[Wildcat]

Nobody should say the first movie (or any single movie in any franchise) is the best we’ll ever get.

The Turtles have been around for 20+ years and we’ve had 6 movies but I count the last two as 1 attempt since they were the same thing/version.

Anyway my point is that’s barely a legitimate attempt. How can we say nobody, in 20 more years or in all of time can never make a better movie?

New writers and directors always come along. Who would have thought Nick would acquire the turtles?

I like the first Turtles movie but compared to everything the series has to offer it’s as basic as it could get.

[Leo656]

Don't be silly. It's easy. Watch.

In 1990, the franchise was owned by people who cared about it as something more than a toy commercial.

In 1990, the people making the movie also cared about it as something more than a toy commercial.

Neither of those statements are true anymore, and never will be again.

TMNT is owned, now and forevermore, by a soulless corporation that exists for no other reason than to make you waste your paycheck on plastic trinkets, by reminding you that you loved this sh*t when you were 5.

That's a PRETTY big difference from where we were in 1990, and a pretty solid indicator that the future remains bleak. Don't counter with "They were always trying to sell toys." Duh. But that wasn't the ENTIRE raison d'etre. Now it is. Not telling stories. Not developing characters. Pushing plastic to a gullible and overly-forgiving fanbase, who they've already force-trained to swallow anything, no matter how vile, that has a TMNT sticker on it.

It's EASY to say, with conviction, "It's not possible for anyone to make a good TMNT movie ever again". All you need is perspective, foresight, hindsight, 20/20 vision, an understanding of Cause/Effect relationships, and at least a rudimentary understanding of statistics.

"Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other," and so on. Mark my words: A flying seagull will sh*t the winning PowerBall ticket into your mouth while OJ tearfully confesses to everything, before you'll ever see a TMNT movie that's worth anything more than... well... seagull crap. That exact sequence of events is infinitely more likely than a "good" TMNT movie coming out in any of our lifetimes.
-------------------------

"People like to say, 'Well, you never know.' Bullsh*t! Sometimes, you know."
- George Carlin

[Wildcat]

The franchise being owned and the 90 filmmakers being people who cared about it as more than a toy commercial are not requirements to get a better movie.

It takes 1 writer/director to care about it more than the average person to surpass the first. Like I said it’s as basic a TMNT movie as possible.

Regardless if Nick or the studio is indifferent towards it. It’s not like all good movies based on popular franchises have been owned/filmed by those who care about it most. That’s not how that works.

People like to think studios or corporations do not care as long as they make money but if that were truly the case nothing would ever change if making tons of profit was easy as throwing stuff together and slapping a name on it.

[Andrew NDB]

Never happen, man. You gotta lower them expectations.

"Just give me a not-$hitty TMNT, please."

...

Actually, that's still too high. Lower.

"Just give me a non-kiddy TMNT, please, even if it sucks."

...

Nope, we're still not low enough.

God. This is where we're at, really, isn't it?

[Leo656]

A writer or director is completely powerless in this kind of situation. Viacom isn't going to go hire 1985-era Steven Spielberg and give him carte blanche to do a Ninja Turtles movie. Who writes it, or directs it, does not matter when movies are made the way these types of movies are.

Viacom says, "We need a movie that will sell billions of toys. It's okay if older people like it too, but we mostly want little kids." They skim Wikipedia, watch maybe one episode of the Fred Wolf cartoon, and make a list of "essential" bits. Then they hire some hack to add dick and fart jokes to it, and another one to tell the guy in the trucker cap where to point the camera. That's the way it works at this level. They're not making "real" movies. You can't expect the same type of quality as a "real" movie when zero effort is actually being made towards it.

Even if there exists, somewhere in Hollywood, some magical, completely altruistic person who wants NOTHING more than to deliver the "perfect" TMNT experience to movie theaters, Viacom wouldn't let them do that, because they wouldn't see any upside in it.

I'm gonna tell you a secret. It's the truth, so try not to get mad: The people who own TMNT? They think it's really stupid, and they think you're stupid for liking it. They don't own it because they think it's cool; they bought it because they think "pizza" and "Cowabunga!" is about the lowest common denominator type of nonsense they can churn out, especially when the audience already exists and has proven that they really don't care about anything except "Yay! More toys!" They see guaranteed profits and gullible manchildren. They have no regard for the actual TMNT lore, its history, or any of that. They think it's stupid. Not one person in charge of it has ever even read a comic or watched any of the shows, outside of board meetings or "market research". They look at it and roll their eyes, disgusted that anyone could ever be entertained by "this". But they shrug, and say "Well, at least we don't have to do any real work; if they want stupid junk, by god let's give 'em stupid junk! We'll give 'em the STUPIDEST junk this stupid franchise has ever seen! They'll LOVE us!"

When someone who owns a property shows THIS much shameless disdain and disgust for said property, as well as its fans... (deep breath) it becomes impossible for them to actually create anything of value. You cannot create something of value if you openly hate the thing you are creating.

It IS, however, "that easy" as churning out crap and slapping a name on it. How do I know that? Because almost every one of You People paid to see BOTH of those movies in theaters, even though half of you claim to almost have chewed your arm off on the way out. You still paid. Some of you watch Rise, and constantly whine about it, instead of turning it off. "I can't. It's Turtles!" :roll: Then I'm sorry, you're a mark. If you're a type who says, "Even if it's bad, I HAVE to watch/like/defend it, it's TURTLES!", then you're a mark, and they own you. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about people who genuinely like those movies, or that cartoon - I can question their taste, but if they genuinely like it, that's fine for them - I'm talking about the LEGIONS of people who talk about how awful BayTurtles or Rise are, but torture themselves with it anyway because they're Good Little Consumer Cattle, afraid they'd somehow "hurt the feelings" of a fictional character by turning off the TV if they really, truly don't like something.

"I hate this... but it's TMNT! Here's my money!" Got 'em. It IS that easy. Just look around this place.
------------------

I mean, I'm allowing for a few things here. One of those things being, I'm (very) loosely-connected to the entertainment industry and have a few friends who've worked in movies, so I have a tiny bit of perspective even if its through hearsay. Another being, you clearly think they care at least a little bit about making "a good movie". You think that, but I know that they don't. Which is why I have such conviction in making these statements.

It's not like if a good movie ever comes out, I won't gleefully admit that I was wrong. I'd love to be wrong. But that's not gonna happen, and watching people needlessly cling to hope rather than just accept the situation is... frustrating.

[Redeemer]

Don't be silly. It's easy. Watch.

In 1990, the franchise was owned by people who cared about it as something more than a toy commercial.

In 1990, the people making the movie also cared about it as something more than a toy commercial.

Neither of those statements are true anymore, and never will be again.

TMNT is owned, now and forevermore, by a soulless corporation that exists for no other reason than to make you waste your paycheck on plastic trinkets, by reminding you that you loved this sh*t when you were 5.

That's a PRETTY big difference from where we were in 1990, and a pretty solid indicator that the future remains bleak. Don't counter with "They were always trying to sell toys." Duh. But that wasn't the ENTIRE raison d'etre. Now it is. Not telling stories. Not developing characters. Pushing plastic to a gullible and overly-forgiving fanbase, who they've already force-trained to swallow anything, no matter how vile, that has a TMNT sticker on it.

It's EASY to say, with conviction, "It's not possible for anyone to make a good TMNT movie ever again". All you need is perspective, foresight, hindsight, 20/20 vision, an understanding of Cause/Effect relationships, and at least a rudimentary understanding of statistics.

"Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other," and so on. Mark my words: A flying seagull will sh*t the winning PowerBall ticket into your mouth while OJ tearfully confesses to everything, before you'll ever see a TMNT movie that's worth anything more than... well... seagull crap. That exact sequence of events is infinitely more likely than a "good" TMNT movie coming out in any of our lifetimes.
-------------------------

"People like to say, 'Well, you never know.' Bullsh*t! Sometimes, you know."
- George Carlin

I agree with Wildcat Andrew. It only takes one director who cares for and respects the property to bring change, to be the difference. The most recent scenario would be Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. The previous two movies were simply cash grabs and toy marketing. Nolan made the difference and gave us a great trilogy.

The Sam Rami spider-man movies are also similar. The movie rights, but Sam Rami still showed respect for the property and gave us a couple of good movies.

The franchise being owned and the 90 filmmakers being people who cared about it as more than a toy commercial are not requirements to get a better movie.

It takes 1 writer/director to care about it more than the average person to surpass the first. Like I said it’s as basic a TMNT movie as possible.

Regardless if Nick or the studio is indifferent towards it. It’s not like all good movies based on popular franchises have been owned/filmed by those who care about it most. That’s not how that works.

People like to think studios or corporations do not care as long as they make money but if that were truly the case nothing would ever change if making tons of profit was easy as throwing stuff together and slapping a name on it.

[Wildcat]

@Leo656,

I’m not mad for you saying it but I just can not agree that Nick themselves hate TMNT. That totally contradicts thier entire being. Making “stupid” shows is what they do. I mean that in a good way. I mean would you say they feel the same about thier own original franchises?

To own any franchise you must care to some extent. That’s just common sense. I’m sure Nick cares if people run thier property into the ground.

Yes I know how that sounds but this situation aside (as it’s not really the norm) Nick is not going to let thier property tank.

I don’t know what kind of connections you have but as surprising as it may be I am fully aware there’s people who if fact do NOT care about certain things. That’s in every profession though. I can’t realistically label everyone in the entertainment industry as “Mr. Burns” :lol:

[frank_one]

In 1990, the franchise was owned by people who cared about it as something more than a toy commercial.

In 1990, the people making the movie also cared about it as something more than a toy commercial.

Neither of those statements are true anymore, and never will be again.

TMNT is owned, now and forevermore, by a soulless corporation that exists for no other reason than to make you waste your paycheck on plastic trinkets, by reminding you that you loved this sh*t when you were 5.Today is all about the money, absolutely nothing else. Not just for the Turtles. The bigger the company is, the less they care. We, as consumers, should give our money to smaller company, better people.

[TigerClaw]

Looks like some people have gloss over what I mentioned from a previous post. But what about Travis Knight as the director for this reboot? I think he's the perfect candidate to reboot the TMNT movie.

Michael Bay had zero input on the Bumblebee movie. So maybe they learned there lesson and allow the director to have creative control over it?

[Candy Kappa]

I donno about perfect, but just by Bumblebee's trailer he's miles better then Lieberman and Green

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The unrealistic insistence for optimism by some of you never ceases to befuddle me.

Looks like some people have gloss over what I mentioned from a previous post. But what about Travis Knight as the director for this reboot? I think he's the perfect candidate to reboot the TMNT movie

I strongly, STRONGLY, disagree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Knight#Filmography

Look at that. A bunch of animated features, only one of which I've heard good things about (Kubo and the Two Strings). And one decent Transformers film.

No, give me James Gunn, Peter Jackson, Guillermo del Toro, or James Wan.

But sure, he's at least an improvement.

[Candy Kappa]

I wish they got Gunn or del Toro

[MikeandRaph87]

After seeing Aquaman, james Wan! Who is the showrunner for this one?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

After seeing Aquaman, james Wan! Who is the showrunner for this one?

TBD.

That's To Be Determined. I spelled it out for the sake of ten characters, not to be insulting. :trazz:

[MikeandRaph87]

TBD.

That's To Be Determined. I spelled it out for the sake of ten characters, not to be insulting. :trazz:

You are fine. I just could not find any update on the thread. James Wan, but I doubt we would be so lucky. Either a no name that will not make a name or someone who is too full of themselves and does not try to be true to the spirit of the product.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You are fine. I just could not find any update on the thread. James Wan, but I doubt we would be so lucky. Either a no name that will not make a name or someone who is too full of themselves and does not try to be true to the spirit of the product.

I dunno, we could somebody get lucky. People do have passion projects.

The odds are just massively against it.

[ranger_scout]

There are plenty of reasons why TMNT: Out of the Shadows did not find an audience. If the creative team behind it wanted to make a better movie, then maybe they should've taken the approach that The LEGO Batman Movie had. They updated the well-known elements of the light-hearted Adam West series, especially Dick Grayson/Robin and Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, very nicely.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, and half of OotS problem was that it simply came second. (The other half of course being its own badly written story, etc.)

Today is all about the money, absolutely nothing else. Not just for the Turtles. The bigger the company is, the less they care. We, as consumers, should give our money to smaller company, better people.
Makes me wish fans could all be shareholders in the property... Might make film makers a bit more willing to take the general consensus a little more seriously.

I'll never understand the recent trend of people hating origin stories. Historically, they're usually the best and most interesting story in a characters' entire catalog; it's generally downhill from there, or at least meandering and repetitive.

I mean, I guess I can almost understand the, "But I've seen it a thousand times!" perspective, but... I'unno. They're necessary. ((shrug))
I dunno, simple boredom and the film industry's really high likelihood of effing it up just to be different if it's a franchise that has been done in film at least once already?

Can't trust these people anymore... :ohwell: They all seem eager too run off with some big, ridiculous idea of how to make something good/cool/new/whatever when they could not give less of a rat's ass about a franchise in their hands and don't even get why some of their ideas may be terrible.


And PD... Focusing mostly on making things explode, be flashy and fast paced, adding expensive cars, building a movie around one action scene etc., is REALLY not enough. Being as superficial about it as possible is NEVER going to be enough.




I still REALLY really think PD's safest bet, if we're stuck with this hack of a company, is to just time skip forward, keep an origin recap very brief if they must go there, and tell a new story about some other time in the Turtle's lives post-Shredder. Can't trust these people to not twist and screw up what already exists so it may be safer to go with a whole new adventure for them... So long as it is one that suits them.

Some who want to see the same tales over and over may complain, but it would otherwise be hard to judge and nitpick an entirely new story anywhere near as much, provided the characterization is done well enough. In some way I wish they'd just do a good live action crossover with another property as it would force them to go with a more original story.

[TigerClaw]

I still think Travis Knight is a good candidate. He can put a lot of heart into TMNT. Which is what it needs.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I still think Travis Knight is a good candidate. He can put a lot of heart into TMNT. Which is what it needs.

Based on one movie, you're that into this guy?

[TigerClaw]

Based on one movie, you're that into this guy?
If you seen Bumblebee. You would understand.

That movie didn't have any huge stakes. It was more a smaller story and it didn't have any world ending implications.

The movie shouldn't center on these big action sequences. But rather on the more personal stuff. You can have some big action scenes. Also they need to amp up the martial arts.

[Krutch]

I could go on for days. :trazz: Point being, ANYthing is stupid if you go into it refusing to play along with the premise.

Obviously anything in the superhero genre can be picked apart - it's called fantasy for a reason. But even alot of those examples you laid out at least have character driven reason reasons or moral lessons baked into the premise. TMNT's origin is just.. freak, random happenstance. Too many illogical things pile up for me to take seriously. I mean, a part of me loves how nonsensical it all is, but the other part of me, the writer part of me, reads it as the giant mess it is. To each their own.

This has also gotta be the Very First Time I've talked to anyone who's actually read more than three comics in their life who has put TMNT at the top. I mean, you do you, but... having read at least some of each TMNT series, I frankly don't think ANY of it is very good. ((Shrugs))

Nah, not gonna try to defend my tastes - as that's all it is. Something about TMNT speaks to me above the rest, what can I tell ya.

[Leo656]

That's fair, no problem. It's just that in my experience, most people who list TMNT as their favorite comic book, generally don't read other comic books, so their list is really short. :trazz:

I think the TMNT origin in itself may seem like random nonsense, but usually (depending on which version) it sets up future events and plants the seeds for stuff like the whole "perpetuating the cycle of violence" thing. But it depends upon which version we're talking about.

But yeah, on the whole it's one of the sillier pieces of fiction. Could be why it's so hard for anyone to take the entire premise seriously. It was more or less created as a goof; if they knew the whole thing would be around for decades and that so many future stories would be telling and re-telling it, and having so many things depend on it... they most likely would have told the entire story quite differently, indeed.

[sdp]

This movie isn't real until we get a teaser poster. It has development hell written all over it.

[IndigoErth]

I HOPE it doesn't end up like that Space Jam mess where it sounds like they've had a hard time even getting their act together. (Granted it's only the same writer, so I hope the issues aren't on that end?)

Mostly right now I just look forward to having something more to discuss than just 'Rise' eps that generate very little discussion. So I hope it doesn't just end up in production limbo going nowhere. Though if a start production gets delayed I won't be surprised.


That's fair, no problem. It's just that in my experience, most people who list TMNT as their favorite comic book, generally don't read other comic books, so their list is really short. :trazz:
Probably people who aren't much the comic reader type, but like TMNT so their default fave is them. (That's basically me, but I still haven't read much so far.)

[Galactus]

Part of me feels like what they're doing now, is simply scraping together what was left of the last series and trying to get SOME money back, hoping they can finagle a reboot under the gun and at least get SOMEthing out before the original deal expires. It's usually a situation where "We need Movie X done and in theaters by Y, or else a bunch of guys in suits don't get a bonus." It's all already on paper, so the actual movie itself (and the quality thereof) is an afterthought in the big picture of "Bitches Gots Ta Get Paid."

With the timing of it being so "smooshed", whatever movie they're racing to get started on was almost certainly, originally, the third BayTurtles film. The timing makes sense; it's a little wider gap than there was between the first two, but still close enough so that it feels like it's right where the third movie would go. Plus, we already know there was a sequel penciled in based on all the unfinished business at the end of the second one, and they were talking trilogy from the beginning.

This is almost certainly NOT a "start from scratch" job; this is an "Amazing Spider-Man comes out on the date we more or less had Spider-Man 4 slotted for, but it's a reboot Because Reasons and we did the best we could with 5 minutes of prep time to start an entirely new franchise, please don't be mad at us" type of situation.

If they do use elements from their scrapped TMNT 3 then I dread to think what we'll get.

I remember seeing a video of Megan Fox at one of the various international premiers of Out Of The Shadows being asked about the direction of a third movie and what she replied with was so specific that I have difficulty believing she made it up on the spot. I imagine she'd been involved in conversations about where the next movie might go.

It went something like Splinter send the turtles to China to learn some new Karate skills and Casey and April are on their own have look after New York while their gone. Presumably the turtles would be back to save their day with their new skills by the time Kra(a)ng invaded again.

Yeah, I could see that being retooled into a reboot.

A friendly reminder, that I and only I liked ASM, and that movies that are made under these conditions are almost unanimously awful.

Can't say I'm a huge fan but I liked it better that the remake that was TMNT 2014.

It's just that in my experience, most people who list TMNT as their favorite comic book, generally don't read other comic books, so their list is really short.

I imagine most comic fans wouldn't necessarily have some of the best made comic books as their favourites. Their top 10 lists would mainly be Marvel & DC superhero stories with maybe possibly Watchmen, Sandman or The Walking Dead in there

That's because we have more an attachment to the mainstream heroes and their worlds. That's nothing to be ashamed of, caring about characters is why their stories have such an impact even when it's not technically the best thing ever written.

The early Mirage TMNT had a charming homemade quality, they were successful because of Eastman and Laird's enthusiasm for the material bled through the material. But it should also be pointed they did get better pretty quickly (when they started to take things seriously) and some genuinely really good work was done on them.

If I saw a Top 10 comics list that had Return To New York, The River, Soul's Winter City at War or eve Blind Faith on there I'd be surprised that they'd know those stories but not at all surprised that anyone would consider them good enough for a Top 10 list. Any of those stories would probably be legit better than whatever Flash or Green Lantern story probably also made the list.

I agree with Wildcat Andrew. It only takes one director who cares for and respects the property to bring change, to be the difference. The most recent scenario would be Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. The previous two movies were simply cash grabs and toy marketing. Nolan made the difference and gave us a great trilogy.

The Sam Rami spider-man movies are also similar. The movie rights, but Sam Rami still showed respect for the property and gave us a couple of good movies.

Getting a good director is one thing, getting a good director with clout is another.

Someone that has authority so that when the studio demands they can't do something because this is for kids or you have to include certain characters, vehicles and settings because we have toys to sell can turn round and say "calm down. I've directed x,x and y. You know I make good movies that a huge hits and then your toys will sell themselves".

I don't think Hollywood's elite directors are brimming with closet TMNT fans but I could easily see some people being open minded enough to give it a shot. Problem is they now not only have to work with Platinum Dunes but be in charge of what is currently a dead franchise that needs reviving. If we're lucky we could get a really talented up and comer it's just they are not going to have the power to fight back on whatever bs ideas are being thrown at them.

[IndigoErth]

Only problem with the scrapped 3rd film theory is that they announced way back in the end of October 2016 that a third would not be happening, only four months after OotS released. And a new writer was hired and announced only last June, who was unrelated to the project. I wouldn't put it past them to feed him ideas or have a wish list, so to speak, but I doubt any of a third had actually been penned already if they axed a third so soon.

Hopefully they left this writer alone to come up with something on his own...


edit: Though I'd take anything Megan Fox says with a grain of salt, that girl is kind of way out there. After all, this is the woman who moved houses because she believed her unborn child wanted her to.

[Sumac]

Today is all about the money, absolutely nothing else. Not just for the Turtles. The bigger the company is, the less they care. We, as consumers, should give our money to smaller company, better people.
Yeah, because, OT and the first movie has been created due to desire of artists to express their artistic freedoms and not because Playmates saw multimillion franchise in the making. :roll:

Makes me wish fans could all be shareholders in the property... Might make film makers a bit more willing to take the general consensus a little more seriously.
This is the worst thing that can happen to a franchise.

[frank_one]

Yeah, because, OT and the first movie has been created due to desire of artists to express their artistic freedoms and not because Playmates saw multimillion franchise in the makingTrue. The main reason was obviously to make money. What I was saying is that back then it wasn't just that. There was more passion and respect for the creators. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Wildcat]

If this is some kind of “3rd before license expires” I honestly do not mind if they give the writers things to include. As long as they’re allowed to use them how they want. Nothing wrong with giving guidelines.

I’m sorry but the original story with the alien origin and Colonel Schrader might have actually been better. Despite whatever changes it might have had.

I mean we really could not handle some alternate version given everything already in pop culture?

Designs aside (and humor), everything in the 2 PD movies actually fits with the turtles...yet it just comes off so poorly. I can’t even put my finger on why exactly. It’s just not entertaining.

[Galactus]

The main difference between 1990 and now is that TMNT was owned by two creators that gave a crap.

Yeah once they licensed it out for merchandising for money they let a lot of **** fly that they were not entirely faithful with their creative vision but we know that they also used what little authority they had to veto some of their more drastic ideas and keep things broadly inline with how they wanted the franchise to be.

The movie in particular was made by an indie company and honestly didn't have a whole lot of merchandising tie-ins since a lot of the licencees looked at their "darker" approach and not being 100% being like the cartoon and didn't think it would be hit. Obviously it was and the sequel suddenly had a bunch of toys.

Not that we should entirely dismiss the commercial aspects of this. Surely the best starting point to sell this movie series is to make good movies. It's not like Platinum Dunes or Paramount ever set to make crappy movies but they did and even the "successful" one didn't make as much Amazing Spider-Man 2 which basically killed that series.

Platinum Dunes is currently trying to rehabilitate it's image with better quality output. I'm actually kinda surprised that they are still interested in the movie series that cost them other projects (and the money they would bring in) in favor of continuing the franchise which is the poster child for why people think they suck but hey if think they can do better the great. Problem is I trust they know what is better with these characters and frankly their approach doesn't seem all that different from last time.

[IndigoErth]

This is the worst thing that can happen to a franchise.
Maybe try not to take everything said in conversation so seriously...

On the other hand, why is it wrong for fans of a thing to have a little power in the treatment and direction of a franchise, but not for producers and executives who couldn't care less and often just make terrible decisions assuming it will get them earnings.

[bgb1018]

I have high hopes for this new movie for the simple fact that I desperately want the franchise to do well on the big screen. I'm no fan of Michael Bay's and in a perfect world I wouldn't want him anywhere near the franchise again, but if he believes in the franchise enough to put his name back on it then I'm going to keep an open mind and hope for the best.

Obviously, I was disappointed with the latest movie installments since they changed so much about the turtles and their story but I can admit that the movies were fun movies.

I really hope that the new movie takes a more serious and gritty approach like the 1990 film and the comics but we all know that most likely won't happen, so for now I'm going to keep my hopes up enough to be excited that the franchise is going to continue in some aspect for now. Hell, maybe they'll surprise us.

[Andrew NDB]

I have high hopes for this new movie for the simple fact that I desperately want the franchise to do well on the big screen. I'm no fan of Michael Bay's and in a perfect world I wouldn't want him anywhere near the franchise again, but if he believes in the franchise enough to put his name back on it then I'm going to keep an open mind and hope for the best.

Obviously, I was disappointed with the latest movie installments since they changed so much about the turtles and their story but I can admit that the movies were fun movies.

I really hope that the new movie takes a more serious and gritty approach like the 1990 film and the comics but we all know that most likely won't happen, so for now I'm going to keep my hopes up enough to be excited that the franchise is going to continue in some aspect for now. Hell, maybe they'll surprise us.

https://cdn.britannica.com/s:500x350/86/152186-049-C0BF1245.jpg

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

A few things I need from this movie to have a chance.

Needs to be set in 1980's New York. New York is as big of a character as the Turtles are. New York now is not some "crazy" place. But in the 80's, if a Turtle in a trenchcoat rolled across your cab hood you wouldn't even be shocked.

Needs a serious tone but obviously there needs to be humor throughout.

They need to be 5'3 and under. They could just shrink the actors down in post if they can't get anyone small enough.

Real people in real suits with CGI faces.

No Shredder until the very end and you can do a quick view of his blades and that's it to tease the 2nd movie. Kind of like Batman getting the joker card in Begins.

Baxter Stockman should be the lead villain (also wouldn't mind Krang coming in half way through to be the REAL villain).

They need to take the origin seriously. This needs to be fleshed out and needs to set up the 2nd movie where Shredder is the villain. There NEEDS to be a connection between Splinter and Shredder.

April should be older, and a better actor than Megan Fox.

This should not be a "save the world" movie.

I do not think they need to follow one story from the comics or cartoon. They should make an original story, but using established characters, and staying close to their source is needed.

[Andrew NDB]

April should be older, and a better actor than Megan Fox.

What? Megan Fox was the oldest April in film. She just turned 32. Paige Turco was 26 when she did TMNT II. Judith Hoag was 22 when she did TMNT (1990)!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

People who harp on Megan Fox in the Platinum Dunes movies really need to take a break.

She was one of the best things about those movies. Which is not saying much at all. The movies were terrible and did a disservice to the four Turtles, but sure, harp on the human character. :trolleye:

If we could get a movie with great Turtles and a great story and intelligent writing, and it had a terrible April, we'd still be lightyears ahead and getting far more than we deserve.

[IndigoErth]

She was one of the best things about those movies.
https://i.imgur.com/FQPh9OU.gif

Wha...

https://i.imgur.com/tfIOKBn.gif

Yeah, not so much from this demographic vantage point... But here, you guys that like her can have a mildly bewildered gif of her.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://i.imgur.com/FQPh9OU.gif

Wha...

https://i.imgur.com/tfIOKBn.gif

Yeah, not so much from this demographic vantage point... But here, you guys that like her can have a mildly bewildered gif of her.

A female actress can either act or she can't. Boil April O'Neil down to simplified terms, (historically) white brunette or redhead who wears yellow, meets the Turtles, and usually is a reporter. Boom.

Cast Megan Fox or Anna Kendrick, you're still mostly on target.

As opposed to six-feet-tall abominations lumbering around being bulletproof, wearing pants, and demutating themselves into humans while learning ninjitsu from a book.

THAT is flawed at the basic level. So yeah... complain and gripe about a lousy actress who can't close her mouth, or focus on the stuff that actually matters as far as the MAIN CHARACTERS and BASIC CONCEPT are concerned.

That was my point. :tsmile: Not a defense of Megan, but a question as to why you would even get past the bigger issues to focus on that in the first place.

[TigerClaw]

A female actress can either act or she can't. Boil April O'Neil down to simplified terms, (historically) white brunette or redhead who wears yellow, meets the Turtles, and usually is a reporter. Boom.

Cast Megan Fox or Anna Kendrick, you're still mostly on target.

As opposed to six-feet-tall abominations lumbering around being bulletproof, wearing pants, and demutating themselves into humans while learning ninjitsu from a book.

THAT is flawed at the basic level. So yeah... complain and gripe about a lousy actress who can't close her mouth, or focus on the stuff that actually matters as far as the MAIN CHARACTERS and BASIC CONCEPT are concerned.

That was my point. :tsmile: Not a defense of Megan, but a question as to why you would even get past the bigger issues to focus on that in the first place.
What if they cast a black actress for April in the reboot? Given that the current April in the new series is black now.

[IndigoErth]

Because it's all collectively bad? And one bad thing doesn't make another less bad?


Besides... I admit bias and despite flaws my fave Turtle is the best part of the whole thing, to me. Way better than not-April. :trazz: And most other elements of the film. (Those pants are cute though dammit, even if it isn't the norm. lol)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

What if they cast a black actress for April in the reboot? Given that the current April in the new series is black now.

I wouldn't care. I always liked the idea of a black April and kinda got on the bandwagon. :tlol:

But not Rise April. Screw that. Anything Rise is terrible. That's my opinion, here I stand and I shall not be moved.

[Technogeek29]

How to let me know you understand the characters?

Leonardo: is a perfectionist who always strives to do the right thing. But he is a teenager who while the most mature and well adjusted of the 4 is still prone to taking on more than he can handle, is actually a geek and dweeb sometimes. Don't make him too uptight something I see PLENTY of writers do. He has anger problems too which only 2k3 and the comics really showcased. Raph isn't the only Turtle he strikes off on his own. it may take him longer to get to that point but he does do it they never showcased the Leonardo who thinks he knows more than Splinter just the one that is to his Bros.

Donatello: The average person can tell you that Donatello is the smart one? But can they tell you that he's short tempered? Altruistic? Anti-social? Sullen? While he is not to the extent of Raph, Don is often on his own beat of the drum finding his life outside of his hobby distractions ultimately. He isn't without his compassion or morals but for him everything has a purpose and meaning and things that don't? Are illogical. In movie's he's usually this wimpy nerd guy who chimes in every now and then but until recent cartoons and comic versions (any) Donnie has quite the backbone and is rather coldblooded but at the same time not seeking a fight if it can be avoided. If I said Donatello was a pacifist to a casual movie goer they would just assumed that made sense given the base knowledge of the guy.

Raphael: Ugh we get it he's the angry one! But there is more to Raph then just his anger and sarcastic wit. He likes to pal around with Mikey, he goofs off sometimes too because he isn't Leonardo but angry Raph isn't 100% down for training and rather find meanings in life or achieve happiness but unlike Mikey who is optimistic or Donnie who finds meaning through science Raph just wants happiness like normal people (something OOTS tried to touch on and failed miserably) but he is a harsh critic on himself as he faces a reality that he is different and will never be truly accepted. Often why him finding love out of all the Turtles tend to work more for his character. (For the record not saying he is the only Turtle to find love nor should he be the only one) He isn't battle hungry like the media makes him out to be in fact I would say he is just easy to spur into a fight.

Michelangelo: Mike. Mike, Mike, Mike someday you won't just be "Funny one" Maybe we can get the thoughtful side, the introspective side, the Michelangelo where he is struggling to stay upbeat, or the one who blows up at his brothers because "life sucks but doesn't mean you have to make it worse?" The Michelangelo who is a bit of an asshole and his party nature sometimes is a bad thing. The Michelangelo who is clever and his jokes stem from how clever he is and not "lol I'm so random" TMNT 3 despite not being very good is a good character movie for Mikey as he does express his selfish desires for wanting a better life for himself. Lying to Mitsu to live it up in Japan where he is more socially accepted. Despite knowing he has to go back delays the others then outfight admits he doesn't want to go in the end. Was willing to abandon Mitsu because he was lied to and found out he was being used to beat the Feudal Lord realizing that he is loved but not in the way he wants.

Some of this or something that isn't more of the same would be nice.

[Xav]

What if they cast a black actress for April in the reboot? Given that the current April in the new series is black now.Well I guess they can then blame racism when the film fails.

[Andrew NDB]

It'd be a way for them to insulate the movie from criticism. If it becomes an "important" movie.

[frank_one]

Judith Hoag was 22 when she did TMNT (1990)!22?! I thought she was around 30.

[IndigoErth]

I kinda wish we could just get Judith Hoag back in the role. She still looks relatively youthful for her age, she could still do it. (And come on, after the last film cut out her cameo... How rude.)



Not entirely sure I'd agree that Leo necessarily has "anger issues," so to speak, I mean everyone gets mad now and then, that's life, but he's certainly the type to keep it bottled up and eventually the pressure is going to break the seal. Typical very self controlled type; people who scare others on the occasion it happens because they're just not used to this person expressing emotions so openly and, since it built up over god knows how long, probably seemingly kind of ferociously; very briefly turning into a bull in a china shop.

[Andrew NDB]

22?! I thought she was around 30.

Nope! Technically probably 21 when they were actually filming it.

I kinda wish we could just get Judith Hoag back in the role. She still looks relatively youthful for her age, she could still do it. (And come on, after the last film cut out her cameo... How rude.

She should be thanking them for cutting her out. And it wasn't like they took away whatever money they paid her to do the part.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

People who harp on Megan Fox in the Platinum Dunes movies really need to take a break.

She was one of the best things about those movies. Which is not saying much at all. The movies were terrible and did a disservice to the four Turtles, but sure, harp on the human character. :trolleye:

If we could get a movie with great Turtles and a great story and intelligent writing, and it had a terrible April, we'd still be lightyears ahead and getting far more than we deserve.

I've said this before but I didn't think Fox was a bad choice. Granted, it doesn't help that she's somehow tied to movies that are known for bad direction or typecasting her. That I thought was always an unfortunate stigma against her. The fear of her being April was due to her portrayal in Bay's TF films. But everyone did terrible in those films due to those hacks.


https://i.imgur.com/tfIOKBn.gif

Yeah, not so much from this demographic vantage point... But here, you guys that like her can have a mildly bewildered gif of her.

I'm awaiting for someone to tell me to speak for myself but let's be honest, she is really attractive and a lot of us wouldn't be against this had Bay not been involved.

[Sumac]

Fox was the least problem of the Bay-Turtles.

[Leo656]

Galactus:

"The Return of Barry Allen" from 1992 (I think) isn't just the greatest Flash story ever told, it should easily make any objective comic book fan's Top 10, even if they don't have any preexisting affection for the character. That story is like "Flash Crack"; one hit, and the average reader goes from "Who Cares about Flash?" to "Woah, Wally West is amazing, I need the entire Mark Waid run." The only reason it isn't more oft-remembered is because of timing, and marketing; it was released just as the Death of Superman story was starting up, so people's attention was being directed elsewhere, but also, the whole "Stories as EVENTS" trend was still about a year away. Otherwise, it would be gushed over at least as much as, say, "Kingdom Come."

A truly heartbreaking, poignant, and ultimately inspiring tale about the power our father figures hold over us, our inherent fear of ever disappointing them - or, god forbid, replacing them - the pressures of trying to live up to an impossible legacy, the fear that the ones we love and revere might not actually be good people after all, coping with loss, what happens when every nightmare you've ever had comes true at once, and finally, what it takes to become not just a Hero, but a Man. There's so many universal themes explored over 6 issues or so that anyone who isn't moved even a little bit probably feels nothing ever in general.

I see your larger point, but I have to take umbrage with the idea that no "random Flash story" could conceivably land on a Top 10 list, and especially that it would rank behind any TMNT comics story on said list. I may underrate the TMNT comics in general, but again, I swear I have never once read a TMNT story that was anywhere near that level. I definitely think someone CAN create one, and am mostly annoyed that nobody has or wants to try, but I don't think it's happened yet.

I'm open to a chat about that, since I haven't read every TMNT comic, and likewise, most TMNT fans haven't read the aforementioned Flash story. So I'm actually curious: If someone who has done the homework can convince me that a TMNT comic exists that is on par with "Return of Barry Allen", I'm genuinely looking forward to hearing which one(s) and why. Not saying it isn't possible, just saying I've never read it yet.

C'mon Andrew, this assignment is mostly for you, buddy. :) Point me in the right direction, or at least give me some food for thought.

[oldmanwinters]

It'd be a way for them to insulate the movie from criticism. If it becomes an "important" movie.

Absolute necessity these days. It's more-or-less a studio life insurance policy.

[Autbot_Benz]

Someone brought this up on another forum but now I see it.

Jon Bernthal as Casey Jones

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Someone brought this up on another forum but now I see it.

Jon Bernthal as Casey Jones

A little old, I think, but I'd be down for it. He's far too good for the role, though. :tlol:

[IndigoErth]

Aw come on, lets be fair here, if we had to keep Megan Fox then we keep Stephen Amell for the exact same reasons. :tlol:

I'm awaiting for someone to tell me to speak for myself but let's be honest, she is really attractive and a lot of us wouldn't be against this had Bay not been involved.
Hey, you guys are free to your own opinions. I'm not a guy, so what can I say, I mostly just see a dull, cookie cutter actress who barely even tried to act the part.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm open to a chat about that, since I haven't read every TMNT comic, and likewise, most TMNT fans haven't read the aforementioned Flash story. So I'm actually curious: If someone who has done the homework can convince me that a TMNT comic exists that is on par with "Return of Barry Allen", I'm genuinely looking forward to hearing which one(s) and why. Not saying it isn't possible, just saying I've never read it yet.

C'mon Andrew, this assignment is mostly for you, buddy. :) Point me in the right direction, or at least give me some food for thought.

I've never read that Flash story. But you can imagine the Mirage stories I'd point you to.

Bernthal as Casey Jones? lol... yeah, he doesn't need that kind of role anymore and he's too old now. I met him a little bit ago and what an awesome guy, though.

And yeah, everyone gets so worked up about Megan Fox when she is literally the least of the problems in the Bay "films." Weird! SAD!

[IndigoErth]

You guys also want a better Casey, also weird and SAD!

[Leolead]

You guys also want a better Casey, also weird and SAD!
My hopes for this movie:

- Turtles who are not just archetypes but real characters; characters who have layers (like real people) and arcs that have payoff. Mikey for example -- should be more than just "The funny one". I want to see a Mikey who uses humor as a facade/coping mechanism to dangerous situations and the grim prospects of life as a mutant living under a sewer.

- A relatively serious tone. It's time for the TMNT to stop being treated like a kiddie property that can only appeal to the lowest common denominator in 7 year olds. We need a movie that explores mature themes like family/brotherhood, isolation, loneliness and growing up. There is sooo much more to the TMNT than just fart jokes and Pepperoni pizza and "Cowabunga, dude!!!!" When will modern Hollywood execs realize this? The tone should be a cross between "The Winter Soldier" and "Bumblebee". Moody and serious atmosphere but with fun. Basically IDW TMNT

- Turtles that look like teenagers and not 12 ft Hulks with shells:
https://i.imgur.com/zRXqT9wl.jpg

I'd like to see them do a Spider-Man: Homecoming approach to the way the Turtles are presented. In the first movie, they are smaller - being young teenagers but they grow up throughout the trilogy. We see their physical growth as well as growth as a team and as heroes.

- Martial Arts like "The Raid". This is what was promised to us by the PD producers in the early stages of development for the Bay film. I'd like to see them follow through with it.

[IndigoErth]

Totally agree with you.

I mean, I don't mind some older looking/seeming Turtles, I'd love to see a little more of that done (or at least gotten back to the maturity pre-Nick shows), but if you're going to make them look 25 or 30, yeah... then drop the "teenage" part from the title. Otherwise, don't make them look quite so grown. Because I'm sorry, PD, but no way are those guys actually teens! (And if they were then they probably aren't even fully grown?? Yikes.)

The concept art certainly had one or two deigns that were clearly the basis of what we got (one of which is still my desktop wallpaper) and would have been perfect as is...and then I guess they decided bigger is better. (Not that I didn't come to love Leo anyhow, but 6'5" and that bulky is still a bit much...)



Can someone tell or link to me what "the raid" mentions are in reference to? I do remember that being something brought up back when they were making it, but not quite sure what it meant.

[Andrew NDB]

I never understand the people that want so badly for the TMNT to behave like normal human teenagers. They're not that. They wouldn't. Stop wanting that.

The people obsessing about that are like one step removed from the sickos who seemingly get off on pint-sized Turtles or "Turtle Tots," ala "Half Shelled Heroes" or whatever.

[Leolead]

Totally agree with you.

I mean, I don't mind some older looking/seeming Turtles, I'd love to see a little more of that done (or at least gotten back to the maturity pre-Nick shows), but if you're going to make them look 25 or 30, yeah... then drop the "teenage" part from the title. Otherwise, don't make them look quite so grown. Because I'm sorry, PD, but no way are those guys actually teens! (And if they were then they probably aren't even fully grown?? Yikes.)

The concept art certainly had one or two deigns that were clearly the basis of what we got (one of which is still my desktop wallpaper) and would have been perfect as is...and then I guess they decided bigger is better. (Not that I didn't come to love Leo anyhow, but 6'5" and that bulky is still a bit much...)



Can someone tell or link to me what "the raid" mentions are in reference to? I do remember that being something brought up back when they were making it, but not quite sure what it meant.
No prob
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/kevin-eastman-ninja-turtles-reboot/amp/
I never understand the people that want so badly for the TMNT to behave like normal human teenagers. They're not that. They wouldn't. Stop wanting that.

The people obsessing about that are like one step removed from the sickos who seemingly get off on pint-sized Turtles or "Turtle Tots," ala "Half Shelled Heroes" or whatever.
I'm not sure if you're referring to me or...? But teens behave all kinds of ways (take it from me, actually being one) And the Turtles are already widely portrayed as teenage caricatures anyway. That's kinda the entire point of them being called "Teenage" Mutant Ninja Turtles. Although in Mirage, they acted liked grizzled adults so I'll give you that.

I actually think it would be really cool if they got real teenagers to play the Turtles. Sort of like what Marvel did with Spider-Man. Get people in late teens-early 20s to do the mocap. You can't get much more authentic than having the real thing.


A coming of age story in vein of 'Perks of Being a Wallflower" about acceptance would fit the TMNT nicely.

[IndigoErth]

I just kinda figured people like the chance to see them as little kids at least just once in an iteration because it's adorable...? Much like seeing someone's childhood family pics? (Is that weird too for some reason?)

To jump to conclusions that people get off on it... Ew. I mean maybe there are a few weirdos like that out there, but can't say I've ever noticed any vibes like that from anyone.


I mean, personally I wish to see them lean a bit older now a little more frequently (and Nick really making me miss the way they were in 2003 and whatnot), but I don't assume anyone who prefers Nick's younger takes on them as being for any weird reason. And some younger fans might just wish for them to be more relatable? (edit: While at the same time, being older now I guess is probably also part of why I'd also love to see them depicted a little older now and then too.)

No prob
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/kevin-eastman-ninja-turtles-reboot/amp/
Thank you :)

[Kenwatanabesclone]

No prob
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/kevin-eastman-ninja-turtles-reboot/amp/

I'm not sure if you're referring to me or...? But teens behave all kinds of ways (take it from me, actually being one) And the Turtles are already widely portrayed as teenage caricatures anyway. That's kinda the entire point of them being called "Teenage" Mutant Ninja Turtles. Although in Mirage, they acted liked grizzled adults so I'll give you that.

They don’t act like grizzled adults though. They were raised in a sewer trained to kill a man for revenge. Of course they’re gonna be a little edgy. If people like you read past the first issue you’d know that the whole series isn’t grim gritty death and violence.

[Andrew NDB]

They don’t act like grizzled adults though. They were raised in a sewer trained to kill a man for revenge. Of course they’re gonna be a little edgy. If people like you read past the first issue you’d know that the whole series isn’t grim gritty death and violence.

It's not, but that's basically who they are. At that point. The rest of the series is them little by little learning about the world.

[Krutch]

2k3 struck my preferred balance of adolescent maturity. Well, 3/4 anyways. Lookin' at you, Mikey.

Too much grit and you risk turning into another DCEU. Not saying it can't be done - just saying long term I think i'd burn out on that much dreary angst.

[Xav]

I mean, I don't mind some older looking/seeming Turtles, I'd love to see a little more of that done (or at least gotten back to the maturity pre-Nick shows), but if you're going to make them look 25 or 30, yeah... then drop the "teenage" part from the title. Otherwise, don't make them look quite so grown. Because I'm sorry, PD, but no way are those guys actually teens! (And if they were then they probably aren't even fully grown?? Yikes.)Well that's what they originally wanted to do with the 2014 film just call it "Ninja Turtles" but fans threw a fit so they tacked "Teenage Mutant" onto the name.

[Leolead]

They don’t act like grizzled adults though. They were raised in a sewer trained to kill a man for revenge. Of course they’re gonna be a little edgy. If people like you read past the first issue you’d know that the whole series isn’t grim gritty death and violence.
What do you mean "people like me"? I've obviously read past the first issue. I've read all the way up to the "Return to New York" arc and then I jumped back into to read the full "City at War" arc. So yes, I very well know that the series starts incorporating things like alien dinosaurs and time travelers. I'm not a Mirage noob by any means.

But the Turtles are indeed much more serious in the Laird/Eastman run. Mikey is nowhere near the goof he became in later incarnations. I'd like the TMNT to start off a bit more naive and optimistic and end closer to the way they were in the first 5 issues of Mirage.

[IndigoErth]

Well that's what they originally wanted to do with the 2014 film just call it "Ninja Turtles" but fans threw a fit so they tacked "Teenage Mutant" onto the name.
Yeah, that's always been a little confusing though. I wish the title had remained that way, and is kind of supported by the two toy sets of Leo and Raph with the three toys/figures labeled turtle, teen, and Ninja Turtle... However... in the film Mikey does refer to them as teenagers, in the scene where they meet April, so it certainly would have been an important scene to write into the film from the start, not just throw in to appease people, so the question is was that line (together with those of his brothers') already written or was it thrown in post fan outcry over the title? :tconfuse:


Either way I can't even begin to see those Turtles as a bunch of kids and just ignore the claims of being teens. lol

[AquaParade]

Even in Mirage, the turtles act like teenagers, at times. Of course they aren't "normal" teenagers, but what does it mean to be a teen other than sometimes acting a little goofy, losing your temper, or being a bit impressionable?
The turtles definitely display aspects of their youth in all renditions of TMNT.

It's a tale of a revenge, but it's also a coming-of-age story.

And yeah, it's in the frickin name.

I love me some adult turtles, such as we see in City at War, but if anyone is planning to make a trilogy of movies or any other long -form story, then yeah, it would be a good idea to start them off with some immaturity, which gives them room for growth.

It's also great to see the turtles being impressionable in regards to the world above ground. I always loved the aspect of the turtles seeing **** on television or hearing lingo through the stormgrates, that they are keen to pick up on. It highlights their isolation and desire to fit into a world they can never be a part of.

I don't think them being teenagers has to equal fart jokes and pepperoni pizza.
It can mean brash attitude and creepy grins while cracking skulls.

The paradox of them being loveable & fun,
yet dangerous as hell is one of the best aspects of TMNT in my mind.

[Leo656]

I've never read that Flash story. But you can imagine the Mirage stories I'd point you to.

Perhaps. I'm guessing "City At War", but... For whatever reason, while that's probably "the best" TMNT story ever written, I still can't love it as much as I'm "supposed" to, same with the bit of IDW I've read. Although CaW definitely aims higher than anything ever has since, or ever will again.

I was spoiled by Watchmen fairly early, I guess. After that, absolutely everything feels like it's half-baked in comparison. Not fair to compare, I know, but still.

I know you are more of a Green Lantern guy than a Flash guy. :) But I always appreciate your insights regardless of whether we're on the same page or not.

[Toxin45]

Even in Mirage, the turtles act like teenagers, at times. Of course they aren't "normal" teenagers, but what does it mean to be a teen other than sometimes acting a little goofy, losing your temper, or being a bit impressionable?
The turtles definitely display aspects of their youth in all renditions of TMNT.

It's a tale of a revenge, but it's also a coming-of-age story.

And yeah, it's in the frickin name.

I love me some adult turtles, such as we see in City at War, but if anyone is planning to make a trilogy of movies or any other long -form story, then yeah, it would be a good idea to start them off with some immaturity, which gives them room for growth.

It's also great to see the turtles being impressionable in regards to the world above ground. I always loved the aspect of the turtles seeing **** on television or hearing lingo through the stormgrates, that they are keen to pick up on. It highlights their isolation and desire to fit into a world they can never be a part of.

I don't think them being teenagers has to equal fart jokes and pepperoni pizza.
It can mean brash attitude and creepy grins while cracking skulls.

The paradox of them being loveable & fun,
yet dangerous as hell is one of the best aspects of TMNT in my mind.

Oh it's way too late for a mirage adaption since it will be a pg-13 movie.

[AquaParade]

Oh it's way too late for a mirage adaption since it will be a pg-13 movie.

Mirage really is closer to pg-13 than anything else, in my mind. I wouldn't argue with someone who claimed otherwise.

That has little to do with my post though, so hopefully I got my ideas across clearly.

[Toxin45]

Mirage really is closer to pg-13 than anything else, in my mind. I wouldn't argue with someone who claimed otherwise.

That has little to do with my post though, so hopefully I got my ideas across clearly.

Fair enough but do you ever get the feeling that Mirage tmnt volume 4 will never get a conclusion?

[Andrew NDB]

Oh it's way too late for a mirage adaption since it will be a pg-13 movie.

Mirage really is closer to pg-13 than anything else, in my mind. I wouldn't argue with someone who claimed otherwise.

That has little to do with my post though, so hopefully I got my ideas across clearly.

There's 0 reason to believe a Mirage-based TMNT movie needs to be R-rated. A PG-13 TMNT movie could even have blood, as long as it's like... Triceraton blood. And apparently beheadings are OK in PG-13 as long as the beheadee is wearing a mask or a helmet so that you can't see their face.

TMNT 1-4 were all PG, and the two PD movies hardly tested the boundaries of their PG-13 ratings.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

What? Megan Fox was the oldest April in film. She just turned 32. Paige Turco was 26 when she did TMNT II. Judith Hoag was 22 when she did TMNT (1990)!

Sorry, I was making reference to the recent cartoons using a teenaged April.

People who harp on Megan Fox in the Platinum Dunes movies really need to take a break.

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I wrote a lot of things I want to see, and ONE small line about Megan Fox. I'm not harping, you are. She was terrible, and if they want these movies to achieve any sort of success, the living breathing human characters need to be excellent actors. I don't want "ok" actors. I want real actors. I want this movie to be treated the same as Batman Begins was.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I wrote a lot of things I want to see, and ONE small line about Megan Fox. I'm not harping, you are. She was terrible, and if they want these movies to achieve any sort of success, the living breathing human characters need to be excellent actors. I don't want "ok" actors. I want real actors. I want this movie to be treated the same as Batman Begins was.

Nah man, that wasn't specific to you. You might have jarred loose the thoughts in my head, but no, my thoughts are more general to the people who DO harp on Megan Fox so much but seem to have zero problems with the Hulkturtles, magic blood, stupid rich, yadda yadda yadda.

We both want the same thing. And we'll both die disappointed decades from now, no doubt. :trazz:

[Allio]

I know it would be impossible but with other franchises making sequels instead of reboots (like Ghostbusters) what if instead of a reboot they just make a TMNT 4 (or 5 if you want to iclude the imagi films) and it could be Shredder's resurrection and we get the City at War movie.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I would personally love to see a loose continuation of the old films. Either that, or a movie that does like spider-man homecoming, and just open on a team of turtles already in the middle of their ninja careers. A lot of people want an origin retread, but since we just had an origin movie a few years ago (even if it was a terrible one) and we have the same producers, we may get an original story with a new group of TMNT, already in the middle of their ninja careers. Or we may get another origin, time will tell.

[Redeemer]

I know it would be impossible but with other franchises making sequels instead of reboots (like Ghostbusters) what if instead of a reboot they just make a TMNT 4 (or 5 if you want to iclude the imagi films) and it could be Shredder's resurrection and we get the City at War movie.

I would personally love to see a loose continuation of the old films. Either that, or a movie that does like spider-man homecoming, and just open on a team of turtles already in the middle of their ninja careers. A lot of people want an origin retread, but since we just had an origin movie a few years ago (even if it was a terrible one) and we have the same producers, we may get an original story with a new group of TMNT, already in the middle of their ninja careers. Or we may get another origin, time will tell.

I am with you guys I would prefer not to do an origin movie. I think it would be difficult to do a continuation of the original films.

[Leo656]

If someone decided to do a "real" sequel to the 1990 movie - since SOTO didn't have the same feel at all - and pick up from there, I would love that. If we can get "Robocop 2: NO, You're Wrong, There's Only Been ONE Previous Robocop Movie, Shut Up" after so many years, I would like to believe it's at least possible.

They'd have to be INCREDIBLY vague with the timeline, in order to have minimal time pass between 1990 and today and pretend that the movies only happen a few months apart or whatever, but whatever, it's fake, they can do whatever they want.

Being the Best Case Scenario automatically means it won't happen, though.

[Coola Yagami]

IDK.... it would be cool if the Turtles were already in action. Usually when the Turtles meet April it's their first or second fight, so they're still new to the viewer and explaining their tale to her is perfect for the audience.

Maybe have the Turtles already have been fighting with the Foot behind the scenes for some time until that fateful moment where someone slips up and April discovers them. Make the Foot just as secretive as the Turtles, similar to the first movie where at first no one really knew who was behind all the robberies. From there they can quickly run past the origin and keep the movie going instead of making the entire movie about the origin.

[newfan]

Direct sequels from first movies, or from where they feel it went in a direction they didn't like (2nd in the case of Terminator?) seems to be becoming a thing.
With TMNT I'm not sure, It can work if they go that way maybe... however if they don't....I get the desire of some to move forward already but I'd rather there was a good recent origin movie I liked before moving straight to later on and having other villains. … unless you had the route of the Origin being explored in a number flashbacks in a sequel? Still not my first choice personally but it could be done if they didn't want to start there. (in the situation where are imagining this is a successful reboot and gets a sequel I mean)

[IndigoErth]

Pick up the time/magic scepter from the 1993 film (yes I know this requires including a vague hint of that film existing but bare with me)...and either a) get thrown back in time at a point after the 1990 film and pick up as an alternate second move, or b) jump forward to modern day. Or...c) go back to post-1990 but part way into the movie jump forward to our present time? But that might get a little convoluted, though it would bring it up to date.

And if it's intended as a sequel in line with 1990, you know what... just air 1990 on tv a lot prior to the film opening, giving people plenty of chance to see it and/or refamiliarize themselves with it. If anyone interested in a Turtles film can't manage to catch it, well that's on them. (I imagine those most interested may already own a copy anyhow.)



I mean, we have a magic time scepter thingy to FIX film timeline issues with, so at least something worthwhile could have come from that third film in the long run. :trazz:

[Leo656]

(yes I know this requires including a vague hint of that film existing but bare with me)

:teek:

...Hey, don't threaten ME with a good time. :tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

You're alright, you.

[IndigoErth]

:lol: Oops.

Naked "like a Turtle do," right? Happy Naked Turtle Weekend, all... :tlol:

[TigerClaw]

These next couple of months are gonna be interesting. Once we learn more about casting.

[Krutch]

For whatever it's worth, I asked Josh how much influence the toyline had when writing his script. His answer was "The toy guys? None." Then again, if the script he was writing had a garbage truck with giant mechanical nunchuck arms to begin with, I doubt the toy companies had any real concerns.

[Andrew NDB]

If someone decided to do a "real" sequel to the 1990 movie - since SOTO didn't have the same feel at all - and pick up from there, I would love that.

Yeah, the "Halloween" (2018 ) route. 30 years later with late 40s Turtles and "one last fight."

It'd be neat for a one off thing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah, the "Halloween" (2018 ) route. 30 years later with late 40s Turtles and "one last fight."

It'd be neat for a one off thing.

Basically, "Logan" but with reptile mutants? I'd be down for that, but it wouldn't do much for relaunching the films after that. :tlol:

[newfan]

Middle aged Mutant Ninja Turtles... hmm, yeah agreed they may not get a stream of movies after that :lol: I'd say it didn't need to be set so many years after but then it depends on if they would use the original human character actors.

How long is it likely to be before we get any idea of what they actually are doing?

[Leo656]

I wouldn't even need (or expect) that.

I'd be happy with something done "Superman Returns"-style. "It's really been four decades but we're all just kinda gonna pretend that the last one was 5 minutes ago." That'd be fine. They'd still be teenagers and the events of the 1990 film still happened... just not in 1990.

Movies shouldn't date themselves by locking it into, "This specifically happened in the year _____," anyway, unless it's absolutely essential to the story. Stuff like that should be intentionally vague. For reasons such as this!

I mean, Rocky's kid aged like 5 years waiting for Rocky to get home. That must'a been some layover! Stuff doesn't always have to make absolute meticulous sense. Just pick up from the last time the STORY was any good and blur the rest of the details to make it fit.

[Prowler]

It's funny how, now that the TMNT property is rather "old", the actual characters are getting younger. Not only were the Turtles younger in the Nick series, but even April and Casey got younger. At this, one day Oroku Saki/Shredder and Splinter will be kids/teenagers too.

[Kenwatanabesclone]

It's funny how, now that the TMNT property is rather "old", the actual characters are getting younger. Not only were the Turtles younger in the Nick series, but even April and Casey got younger. At this, one day Oroku Saki/Shredder and Splinter will be kids/teenagers too.

The turtles are 13 in Rise as well

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Hell, I'd love a "TMNT Logan" movie. 30 years later, Splinter dead, the turtles separated and at odds, called together for one last whatever.

I guess, basically a more grounded Odyssey (i.e. less time travel, magic, and alternate realities).

IDW needs to give us that in an Elseworlds-type story. Not just a special one-off issue, but like a 12-issue miniseries or something.

[Krutch]

A passing thought I had the other day..

Alot of people took issue that April was the lead character in the 2014 film. Yes, there are countless more obvious things people protested as well, but let's stick with that point for a moment. Is it inherently a bad idea for April to be the lead or was it just the way it was handled? Would Casey Jones be better suited to lead the film?

Obviously, the TMNT should lead their own movies. I'm not debating that. I'm just asking if they had to use a human protagonist as the lead is it automatically a bad decision?

[Andrew NDB]

Danny was the main character in TMNT 1. Basically. It's somewhat split with April, though. Through Danny's eyes we get to know the Foot... through April's we get to know the Turtles.

[Prowler]

Danny was the main character in TMNT 1. Basically. It's somewhat split with April, though. Through Danny's eyes we get to know the Foot... through April's we get to know the Turtles.

And don't forget Raphael. He was the Turtle with the most screentime in the movie.

[Krutch]

Yeah, the original film doesn't feel like it has a single main character, though I can see your argument of it being Danny. He has alot of agency and even more screentime than some of the turtles themselves. But he's completely absent from the climax of the film and everything thats happening around him is beyond his control.

And hey - it's just Dan now, okay?

[IndigoErth]

Well, if a human must lead it, then April is kind of inherently the primary one to do so, but in that case it better be a very strongly/solidly written and acted April.


Problem with PD though is that the human parts are SO god damned boring after you've seen it a few times. These are literally the first and only TMNT films I have ever started just fast forwarding through portions, which is sad to think it has come to that.

[Krutch]

I love April but would rather Casey take the lead if a human must. His story is very ground level and would be a fun entry point into the TMNT.

Have the opening credits be him working out and watching TV news reports about how gang violence is out of control. Have him go take out a few guys and come home all bloody and exhausted. Get a sense of the neighbourhood he lives in and the people in his life. Then have him go out again and this time bump into Raphael. Then he slowly gets introduced to the brothers and finds out that he's only been treating the symptom - that Shredder exists and is behind all the gang warfare. Casey realizes that helping these turtles is the only way to really reach an endgame and even though he knows he's in over his head, he has to try.

I'd probably introduce Hun as well so in the climax Casey has someone to fight who he can reasonably take out.

[IndigoErth]

While I generally kind of dislike anyone leading it other than the Turtles, taking it from Casey's point of view would be an interesting angle, I'll give you that.

[Andrew NDB]

It'd be interesting to see a TMNT reboot entirely from the perspective of Oroku Saki.

[Prowler]

It'd be interesting to see a TMNT reboot entirely from the perspective of Oroku Saki.

Seems unlikely to happen, though. And it would depend on how interesting and well-written said Shredder was. Ch'rell from 2k3 sure had an interesting life, for example.

[Leo656]

Hell, I'd love a "TMNT Logan" movie. 30 years later, Splinter dead, the turtles separated and at odds, called together for one last whatever.

I guess, basically a more grounded Odyssey (i.e. less time travel, magic, and alternate realities).

Wouldn't be bad, but they need to do ONE movie that gets the basics right, first, before we start jumping all over the place.
-------------------

As for why a TMNT movie really does need a human to carry most of the story, it's simple: A lot of the people watching the movie don't know anything about TMNT other than, "My kid likes it". They think it's silly and dumb. By showing things through the "lens" of a human character, it makes all the implausible, goofy nonsense make a lot more sense. The human characters are the "bridge" that makes the rest of the world seem realistic. Without them it's a farce.

I've shown a ton of people the 1990 film who were downright hostile towards watching a TMNT movie. They either never even heard of it, somehow, OR just assume it's a dumb Muppet movie. The way the film presents the story has always managed to get those people engaged, despite their initial misgivings, in a way that a film that is "just" centered on the TMNT is not. I've even seen a few people tear up.

The fact that it does such a good job winning over "haters" is why it's such a good movie. I wouldn't have minded seeing maybe a *bit* more focus on the Turtles but altogether I thought the balance was just about perfect.

Do a movie that ONLY focuses on the TMNT, and now it's a kids' movie. Or, at least, one that non-fans won't take seriously enough to sit through.

[IndigoErth]

It'd be interesting to see a TMNT reboot entirely from the perspective of Oroku Saki.
Esp if it was a version that isn't right in the head and gets a bit into his madness... That would be interesting for sure.

[newfan]

Yeah, if there ever was a spin off Movie I'd like go with Oroku Saki too.

[Egon1982]

Yes the last 2 were crap.

[Diorm]

I'd be happy with something done "Superman Returns"-style. "It's really been four decades but we're all just kinda gonna pretend that the last one was 5 minutes ago." That'd be fine. They'd still be teenagers and the events of the 1990 film still happened... just not in 1990.

Movies shouldn't date themselves by locking it into, "This specifically happened in the year _____,".

This. That's what I want to see too. It's a big trend nowaday to do this or a sequel that takes place some 30 years laters. Jurassic World, Tron Legacy, Indiana Jones, Blade Runner, Mary Poppins, Star Wars, Mad Max etc.
Simply do a sequel that forget other films happened like Superman Returns or the upcomming Ghostbusters.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Yeah, the "Halloween" (2018 ) route. 30 years later with late 40s Turtles and "one last fight."

It'd be neat for a one off thing.

Technically, like other animals, don't turtles age differently from humans?

In any future incarnation, I'd like to see the turtles out of their teenage years. Although preferably in their 30s or 40s. A lot of people in their 20s really don't act much different than their teens.

[IndigoErth]

Factoring in that they're mutants (with or without some amount of human depending on personal preference)... who knows. :tconfuse: Personal interpretation I guess.

Turtle age myths be damned (except for the lucky species it's based on), far as I know Sliders supposedly don't even live any longer than humans (or maybe not nearly as long, the info seems to vary), so it may be in their best interest anyhow to gain a human-like lifespan.


I'd love so much to see their age caught up to their franchise age, at least for a few films or something. 35-year-old Turtle guys would be awesome to see. And that's still a young enough age that they don't have to go making them look old to order to be believable. Just a 30-something maturity to match and a few extra old battle scars if need be. :tcool:

(If a film or whatever went with 20s to start, maybe start them off at late 20s, well enough beyond the extended teen-like phase of the young 20s, so then a follow up project can step into the 30s.)

[Coola Yagami]

Hmmm I would love the 90s tmnt to use the time scepter to come to modern day and adjust to all the changes. Perfect way to bring back Elias and Judith as they are now too.

[graphic_content]

If they go with Shredder-centered story line, I would love them to introduce his older brother Nagi. By starting with Nagi, and introducing the love triangle/conflict with Yoshi, plus ultimately killing Nagi, forcing Saki to avenge him - itll add layering to Shredder's character to might make it easier to sympathize with him.

[IndigoErth]

Hold up a sec... Either we've changed writer or we've added one?

This article is for another film (a female-led Fast and the Furious spin off), but among its announced writers it mentions this...

[Lindsey] Beer worked on the Netflix film Sierra Burgess Is a Loser and is writing the recently announced Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles reboot.

https://geektyrant.com/news/the-female-focused-fast-and-furious-spinoff-film-races-forward-with-three-writers


Thoughts? Anyone familiar with her work? Not a long filmography on IMDB but looks like an interesting mix, plus the one this article was about.

[graphic_content]

Hold up a sec... Either we've changed writer or we've added one?

This article is for another film (a female-led Fast and the Furious spin off), but among its announced writers it mentions this...




Thoughts? Anyone familiar with her work?

Is it commonplace for a studio to hire more than one writer to simultaneously write their own version of a movie? Or are Dodge, and Beer working together?

[Krutch]

She looks like literally every girl in the Art department :lol:

As for her writing, I have no opinion since I havent seen anything she's done.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, doesn't seem uncommon to have more than one working together. The last two films had the two guys, and the film that article is about has hired three.



Not TMNT related, from Dec 2017:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/3-female-screenwriters-crashing-blockbuster-boys-club-i-want-see-a-female-darth-vader-1063482

Trigger warning (must I really say this?) on the use of "feminist" and that angle of the article for those at risk of meltdowns over such things. THAT ASIDE, reading the interview she was a part of, I'm kind of liking her attitude already. Will be curious to see what she can bring to a script for our guys. (And April too.)

On notes from men about women

GENEVA ROBERTSON-DWORET I got really frustrated with a male director because he kept saying, "I just want her to be a normal girl." Male executives and filmmakers are still scared to give women warts — to give a woman the same specificity they'd give a male character.

LINDSEY BEER With female char*acters, I always get the note that they need to be "likable." They will say she seems like a … well, they won't say the B-word, but they imply the B-word. A female character can't have a chip on her shoulder the way a man can. We have so many lovable male protagonists that are the grumpy antihero, but that character as a woman is hard to push through.

On being the only woman in the writers room

AMANDA SILVER I was in a room, and there was this guy, and I don't think he was a jerk or he was even aware of what he was doing, but every time I started to say something, he would cut me off. So the next time he interrupted me, I called him out on it, immediately. It's like the bully at school: You've got to punch him in the nose.

BEER I am smaller, and my voice is quieter than these men. Geneva and I were in the Transformers room, and we were all pitching to Steven Spielberg over Skype. We were sitting at this long table, and the men had these deep voices he could actually hear.

ROBERTSON-DWORET Oh, God, that was so embarrassing. We had to get right by the camera and mic.

BEER It looked like I was making out with Spielberg over Skype. But he couldn't hear me, so I was like, "**** it. You and me Spielberg — we are going to have a moment."

On what makes a great block-*buster heroine

SILVER Growing up, we all had favorite movies that were made by and starred men, but you squint and take on the male point of view and you enjoy it. It should work in the reverse. The female heroine should be allowed to be just as relatable for everybody, which means she will be flawed. Perfection is boring, man.

BEER Female characters also need to have motivations that aren't just a man or children. I know a male screenwriter who said he could think of 300 motivations for his male character, but all he could think about for his female character was that she had kids to go save. It's just a subconscious bias. I fall into the same thing.

ROBERTSON-DWORET I hate the setup [for men] where the nuclear weapon is about to go off, and you can either stop that or save your girlfriend. And they go save the girlfriend! Of course, they also stop the nuclear bomb. But I always think, "Wouldn't your girlfriend want you to save the city? Or is she the most selfish person ever? Why do you even date her?"

On changing the equation

SILVER You can't really define the "female perspective," but simple math tells you that if more women are writing and directing, a female perspective will emerge.

ROBERTSON-DWORET My first four jobs, I was only hired by female executives at various companies. They took the risk on me.

BEER In general, studios need to be less risk-averse. You give a female a chance, and you get Wonder Woman. You give diverse voices a chance, and you get Get Out.

On industry double standards

BEER You can only get your movie made if you get one of three or four actresses attached to it because there are only so many female stars who are considered bankable. There would be a lot more if we made more female content.

SILVER It's totally a chicken-before-the-egg situation.

ROBERTSON-DWORET [Male stars] can be into their 50s, but you are going to have a hard time selling the studio on making a $120 million action movie with a 45-year-old actress. You have Liam Neeson, but you would never have people say, "Judi Dench should really star in this action film."

SILVER I am totally on for that.

BEER It's the Bond spinoff we really need.

On the blockbuster they would like to gender-swap

BEER I want to see a female Darth Vader.

ROBERTSON-DWORET For me, it's McClane in Die Hard. He is so dry and funny. Female characters in action movies are so serious. They never seem to ever have any fun kicking ass.


I guess we missed this one from the 15th that does mention her.
http://sciencefiction.com/2019/01/15/producers-hope-start-filming-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reboot-year/

[Diorm]

ROBERTSON-DWORET I hate the setup [for men] where the nuclear weapon is about to go off, and you can either stop that or save your girlfriend. And they go save the girlfriend! Of course, they also stop the nuclear bomb. But I always think, "Wouldn't your girlfriend want you to save the city? Or is she the most selfish person ever? Why do you even date her?"

In "The Dark Knight", Batman let his ex die to save her current boyfriend, Harvey Dent, for the good of the city.

It was a breath of fresh air.

[Krutch]

In "The Dark Knight", Batman let his ex die to save her current boyfriend, Harvey Dent, for the good of the city.

It was a breath of fresh air.

Well yeah only because he was tricked by Joker.

[Redeemer]

In "The Dark Knight", Batman let his ex die to save her current boyfriend, Harvey Dent, for the good of the city.

It was a breath of fresh air.

Well yeah only because he was tricked by Joker.

Yeah Batman tried and meant to save Rachel, not Harvey. The Joker tricked him.

[Sumac]

In "The Dark Knight", Batman let his ex die to save her current boyfriend, Harvey Dent, for the good of the city.

It was a breath of fresh air.
Good one. :lol:

[Leo656]

S'what she gets for trying to pass for Katie Holmes. :trazz:

"A Half-Melted Katie Holmes Wax Candle", maybe. Yeeeeesh. I would'a been upset seeing Katie get blown up; with Maggie, it's like "Ahhh, cool, now I don't have to keep seeing That Face in giant widescreen."

She and Sarah Jessica Parker could start a "Women Society Pretends Are Super Hot When The Truth Is Slightly More Bitter" club. One looks like a foot, the other, a loosely-crumpled washcloth. A perfect pair! :lol:

[bgb1018]

I know it would be impossible but with other franchises making sequels instead of reboots (like Ghostbusters) what if instead of a reboot they just make a TMNT 4 (or 5 if you want to iclude the imagi films) and it could be Shredder's resurrection and we get the City at War movie.

This would be a cool concept to go with. It would be easy to incorporate the movies from the 90s and everything that happened. Like a few other people, I think it would be cool to incorporate the scepter from TMNT 3 to time travel back to the first movie. It would basically serve the same purpose that Days of Future Past did in resetting the timeline in the universe, basically erasing the events of everything after the original movie (and I'm a huge fan of SOTO). You could then start with Shredder's resurrection (like it was hinted at in the 2007 film). And from there the possibilities are endless on how you could incorporate the different story arcs.

It would even be a somewhat easy way to incorporate Renet into the series which would make it fairly easy to start incorporating the major stories from the Mirage series into the movies without over reaching as well. Like I said, the possibilities would be endless at that point.

I definitely feel that an origin story should be bypassed. We've already seen the origin twice in movies and multiple times in the different tv series so it's been overplayed now. Following the route that Spiderman Homecoming took and having the origin having already happened and just continuing the story of the turtles may be the best route.

[bgb1018]

I would personally love to see a loose continuation of the old films. Either that, or a movie that does like spider-man homecoming, and just open on a team of turtles already in the middle of their ninja careers. A lot of people want an origin retread, but since we just had an origin movie a few years ago (even if it was a terrible one) and we have the same producers, we may get an original story with a new group of TMNT, already in the middle of their ninja careers. Or we may get another origin, time will tell.

I agree 100% with this. Get us straight to the story telling.

[bgb1018]

Pick up the time/magic scepter from the 1993 film (yes I know this requires including a vague hint of that film existing but bare with me)...and either a) get thrown back in time at a point after the 1990 film and pick up as an alternate second move, or b) jump forward to modern day. Or...c) go back to post-1990 but part way into the movie jump forward to our present time? But that might get a little convoluted, though it would bring it up to date.

And if it's intended as a sequel in line with 1990, you know what... just air 1990 on tv a lot prior to the film opening, giving people plenty of chance to see it and/or refamiliarize themselves with it. If anyone interested in a Turtles film can't manage to catch it, well that's on them. (I imagine those most interested may already own a copy anyhow.)



I mean, we have a magic time scepter thingy to FIX film timeline issues with, so at least something worthwhile could have come from that third film in the long run. :trazz:

This is my thoughts exactly. Even if the turtles aren't the ones directly using the scepter this time and they incorporated Renet into the story to basically reset the timeline, it would be simple and easy way to continue the story while not straying from the source material too far.

[bgb1018]

Hell, I'd love a "TMNT Logan" movie. 30 years later, Splinter dead, the turtles separated and at odds, called together for one last whatever.

I guess, basically a more grounded Odyssey (i.e. less time travel, magic, and alternate realities).

IDW needs to give us that in an Elseworlds-type story. Not just a special one-off issue, but like a 12-issue miniseries or something.

They kind of did this in the final season of the Nick series. Maybe not directly put use the story from the Nick series but adapt something similar.
The world is a mutant, desert wasteland, and the turtles are all old, and well past their prime but still willing to put their lives on the line for one another. It would be interesting to see on the big screen for sure.

[Andrew NDB]

It's a virtual guarantee this will be a sh*tshow. This is more Turtle Product™, given a release date before they even have a director or a writer (i.e., you know, the heart and soul of a movie).

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I agree 100% with this. Get us straight to the story telling.

The problem with that is Shredder is always integral to the origin, and most Hollywood producers (the few who even know what Ninja Turtles is) aren't going to sign off on skipping the TMNT's best-known villain.

We're not Batman fans or Spiderman fans. Nobody takes us seriously, so nobody's going to look at a script and say "You know, it's not Shredder and you don't have any explanation for how these Turtles got mutated, but hell, you've got a good story here with the Turtles caught between a robotics scientist hunting rats and a homeless guy who controls rats. Let's do it!"

It's just not gonna happen.

For the TMNT to break legit into cinemas, they first have to have a well-received standard run-of-the-mill TMNT versus Foot Clan and Shredder story. Anything else seems like too big of a risk.

[Toxin45]

It's a virtual guarantee this will be a sh*tshow. This is more Turtle Product™, given a release date before they even have a director or a writer (i.e., you know, the heart and soul of a movie).

Like how mirage volume 4 still isn't finished yet? You still haven't gotten over that mirage sold tmnt

[bgb1018]

The problem with that is Shredder is always integral to the origin, and most Hollywood producers (the few who even know what Ninja Turtles is) aren't going to sign off on skipping the TMNT's best-known villain.

We're not Batman fans or Spiderman fans. Nobody takes us seriously, so nobody's going to look at a script and say "You know, it's not Shredder and you don't have any explanation for how these Turtles got mutated, but hell, you've got a good story here with the Turtles caught between a robotics scientist hunting rats and a homeless guy who controls rats. Let's do it!"

It's just not gonna happen.

For the TMNT to break legit into cinemas, they first have to have a well-received standard run-of-the-mill TMNT versus Foot Clan and Shredder story. Anything else seems like too big of a risk.

As much as I agree with the idea of skipping the origin story, I'm not naive enough to think it would actually happen and be a success. I think it's more myself being selfish and wanting to progress beyond the origin finally that I'd want the films to go that route.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that for TMNT to finally break out in mainstream cinema there needs to be a well written story involving Shredder. Maybe even having Oroku Nagi as part of the origin and then have Saki take up the persona to seek revenge. That way we could at least progress the story and stay within the source material. And then Saki's death could set up the 2nd movie for Shredder's resurrection.

[bgb1018]

It's a virtual guarantee this will be a sh*tshow. This is more Turtle Product™, given a release date before they even have a director or a writer (i.e., you know, the heart and soul of a movie).

I want so badly to disagree with this, but with the information we have so far this is the most real conclusion we can draw from it all right now.

[Toxin45]

As much as I agree with the idea of skipping the origin story, I'm not naive enough to think it would actually happen and be a success. I think it's more myself being selfish and wanting to progress beyond the origin finally that I'd want the films to go that route.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that for TMNT to finally break out in mainstream cinema there needs to be a well written story involving Shredder. Maybe even having Oroku Nagi as part of the origin and then have Saki take up the persona to seek revenge. That way we could at least progress the story and stay within the source material. And then Saki's death could set up the 2nd movie for Shredder's resurrection.

Didn't shredder got a 2nd ressurection? Also I doubt that nagi would be adapted it seems not even Laura or the other writers don't seem interested in him.

[oldmanwinters]

Call me crazy, but seeing as how this movie is being made by the same people as the last two (more or less), I'd just prefer they keep using all the existing CG models (to save some cash) and just finish off whatever dangling plot threads they were hoping to do for a trilogy. A reboot isn't gonna be any better, so let's just a complete story for whatever they were trying to create the first time around. They don't necessarily have to bring Fox, Arnett, or Amell back if it's too expensive, as they could always write their characters out of the story one way or another (I always liked the idea of some human characters being mutated into more CG creatures so as not to have to worry about paying high-profile actor salaries).

[Galactus]

Call me crazy, but seeing as how this movie is being made by the same people as the last two (more or less), I'd just prefer they keep using all the existing CG models (to save some cash) and just finish off whatever dangling plot threads they were hoping to do for a trilogy. A reboot isn't gonna be any better, so let's just a complete story for whatever they were trying to create the first time around. They don't necessarily have to bring Fox, Arnett, or Amell back if it's too expensive, as they could always write their characters out of the story one way or another (I always liked the idea of some human characters being mutated into more CG creatures so as not to have to worry about paying high-profile actor salaries).

They didn't have any dangling plot threads or a story to complete. If they were they would have teased it an after credits scene.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure they'd brainstormed and had loose plans for what a third movie would be but all that was blown out of the water when Out Of The Shadows flopped. If Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the freakin' Technodrome couldn't sell a movie then whatever characters they planned next where not going to cut it either. To their credit Nemec and Applebaum have acknowledged this.

We definitely need human actors. Not the ones the previous two Platinum Dunes movies but we need some human characters. April in particular, while not a hugely important character in terms of plot (most TMNT stories after her introduction would play out the same if she was not present) we need a grounded POV character that isn't a mutant, alien or even a vigilante. Selling a movie with questionably superimposed cgi characters talk to each other is not going to fly...especially if they look like the Platinum Dunes designs.

I appreciate that some fans think they could be salvaged and from certain angles they could work. Take away all the pointless crap on them, fix the faces etc and the 2014 designs may fly as an "edgy" and "modern" design but these movies tanked in a large part because they botched the look so badly and really soured people on that design aesthetic. Reusing those designs tweaked or otherwise is a recipe for disaster.

A quasi sequel to the now defunct original Platinum Dunes continuity is not something anyone wants to see. Likewise a quasi sequel to the defunct 90s Golden Harvest or anything that requires the audience to do homework before they watch the movie. I can't believe anyone is seriously suggesting this.

Shredder, origin, properly proportioned turtles and no wacky re imagined designs and it has got a chance. Have humour sure but don't treat the thing like a complete joke and they have a shot. A slim one but a shot nonetheless.

[oldmanwinters]

They didn't have any dangling plot threads or a story to complete. If they were they would have teased it an after credits scene.

I disagree on account of one thing: Krang's Technodome "Toy Chest." Not only did he lock Shredder away in there for a rainy day, but there are a ton of easter eggs locked away in there (Triceraton and other mutants) that might have been the basis of a 3rd "Dimension X" themed movie:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xzJBWY

[Galactus]

I disagree on account of one thing: Krang's Technodome "Toy Chest." Not only did he lock Shredder away in there for a rainy day, but there are a ton of easter eggs locked away in there (Triceraton and other mutants) that might have been the basis of a 3rd "Dimension X" themed movie:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xzJBWY

That was just their attempts at Easter eggs.

I don't think that was a serious road map of where the movies were heading. They clearly did not have any firm plans for the series which honestly isn't the worst idea. Imagine if they build up a villain or plot line only for the audiences to react badly to them.

If you're a well oiled machine like Marvel Studios you can roll with it but Bay hates world building and very grudgingly tried it with his last Transformers movie and it was all for nothing as the one Transformers spin off they have managed to squeak out completely ignored the crappy set up and went its own way with the setting and story.

The likelihood is that they would have had Baxter "Stockwell" as a fly in the next movie. They seemed to like the idea of following the hierarchy of 80s cartoon villains and Baxter was next on the list. I can't imagine how thst we'd have ever gotten Triceratons or the Fugitoid or indeed any non-Fred Wolf based characters in the movies squinting and making out a silhouette in Kra(a)ng's "toy chest" was the best we were going to get.

[IndigoErth]

I don't know if it's so much that Krang, the Technodrome and getting Bebop and Rocksteady in a film finally aren't able to sell a movie, but they were pretty much wasted, in both that film's concept and via the fact that they didn't show up until a sequel to a film people were disappointed with. All of that design time and Krang and the Technodrome hardly even featured in the film, let alone ever even pose a real threat to the city/world. B&R got more use, but the Turtles just barely got to interact with them. And... Shredder who? Also wasted.


May not be a popular view, but to save money and put it elsewhere, and the fact that the same company is handling it and possibly likely to bomb it again, yeah I could deal with the same Turtle designs being reused (though scaling them down a little -- no teller than average adult human height at most [Donnie] -- would be OKAY), provided we're just going to ignore the last two films and get a strong story written that's separate from them.

Maybe they're not the cutest Turtles in the world, and they may be a bit overgrown, but the weak stories are a far larger issue. Had the stories written for these films been spectacular and engaging, not the basic and superficial nonsense they decided to go with, people could well have embraced these guys a little more than they did... It's not like every comic art style is pretty looking either, but a good story can make people accept a character they might not have at first glance.

Pants... fine, these designs would look pretty awkward without them at this point, just don't overdo the rest. If they're carrying around radios, throwing knives or whatever like the last film, for the love of god at least have them USE them. If they're not going to use it, then leave it at home. OR get brave and let them actually pick stuff up (or put away) at some point in the film depending on what's going on. If they're home...take that stuff off.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't know if it's so much that Krang, the Technodrome and getting Bebop and Rocksteady in a film finally aren't able to sell a movie

I do. Because they didn't.

[IndigoErth]

Well, then your psychic powers are very useful and hopefully other film makers disconnected from Platinum Dunes, etc will take note never to bother with them.

[oldmanwinters]

That was just their attempts at Easter eggs.

I don't think that was a serious road map of where the movies were heading. They clearly did not have any firm plans for the series which honestly isn't the worst idea. Imagine if they build up a villain or plot line only for the audiences to react badly to them.

If you're a well oiled machine like Marvel Studios you can roll with it but Bay hates world building and very grudgingly tried it with his last Transformers movie and it was all for nothing as the one Transformers spin off they have managed to squeak out completely ignored the crappy set up and went its own way with the setting and story.

The likelihood is that they would have had Baxter "Stockwell" as a fly in the next movie. They seemed to like the idea of following the hierarchy of 80s cartoon villains and Baxter was next on the list. I can't imagine how thst we'd have ever gotten Triceratons or the Fugitoid or indeed any non-Fred Wolf based characters in the movies squinting and making out a silhouette in Kra(a)ng's "toy chest" was the best we were going to get.

Probably right!

[Toxin45]

I do. Because they didn't.

Well it's not like we never got a mirage adaption either I mean the first three films from the 1990's,2003 tv series,and 2007 film are the closet but they were also criticized with only the first film being the most popular.

[Andrew NDB]

Well it's not like we never got a mirage adaption either

It's a lot like that. Which isn't to say a new reboot needs to be that (though that wouldn't be the worst thing, since it's a stone left unturned), it's that they need to not make something anything like what they've been.

[Toxin45]

It's a lot like that. Which isn't to say a new reboot needs to be that (though that wouldn't be the worst thing, since it's a stone left unturned), it's that they need to not make something anything like what they've been.

Well then we never got a mirage adaption and probably never will at this point at best they will mix up elements from previous incarnations

[Krutch]

Something original or IDW would be my vote. Some will disagree but I think TMNT 90 incorporated the best of the Mirage stuff while implementing and respecting what people loved about the cartoon at the time. So if we never get that “pure Mirage” adaptation, I’m okay with what we got.

The IDW comics I’m very, very behind on (only read up the second collected hardcover edition) but I liked what I’ve seen. Could make for a fresh take on things on the big screen.

[Leo656]

Something original or IDW would be my vote. Some will disagree but I think TMNT 90 incorporated the best of the Mirage stuff while implementing and respecting what people loved about the cartoon at the time. So if we never get that “pure Mirage” adaptation, I’m okay with what we got.


It's definitely the closest we'll ever get in live action, not counting someone's fan film for YouTube or something.

I'm fine with it. I may be blaspheming, but to me, Mirage completely in and of itself is way too dry to carry a movie.

[Andrew NDB]

It's definitely the closest we'll ever get in live action, not counting someone's fan film for YouTube or something.

I'm fine with it. I may be blaspheming, but to me, Mirage completely in and of itself is way too dry to carry a movie.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SpicyWholeHarvestmouse-size_restricted.gif

[Leo656]

:lol: Love you too buddy.

I get why people like Mirage, but the stuff that MOST people like about TMNT... isn't in there. And you're not gonna "re-educate" the public at this point. Ain't happening.

Any live-action movie has to have mass appeal. Thus, a "straight" Mirage adaptation is completely off the table. I wouldn't be adverse to it existing, but I'm pragmatic; they can't spend the necessary $100 million + for a CGI-fest (since nobody wants to use suits anymore) and then market it to such a niche audience.

It's not the fact that Mirage puts me to sleep that makes me say this, because a Mirage movie would likely be very good, objectively. But it's absolutely not the movie most people want to see and not the movie they want to spend a fortune making.

If anything, the fact that the "safe bet" Bebop & Rocksteady movie failed so spectacularly means that they're never going to take any risks again. Doing a straight Mirage film? Huge risk. No built-in audience, no jokes for the kiddies, no love story. Never happen.

Sorry guy. But I feel your pain.

[IndigoErth]

Make it a straight to Netflix deal. If that goes over well then put a sequel in theaters.

[Toxin45]

At least make it a trilogy

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I mean, the 1990 film was loosely based on Mirage and even fans of the FW series loved it so I'm not sure why a Mirage movie wouldn't work.

I would actually be interested in a movie in the vain of the recent Planet of the Apes movie. It could try a unique spin on the origin story. Maybe give more of an in-depth story on how the turtles learn how to walk and speak like a human. Raised by a human before they are betrayed by humanity and live in the sewers.

What I would really yearn for is a film where the entire setting takes place in Japan (the right way) where the turtles are raised there and trained as ninjas. Instead of Yoshi fleeing from Japan to New York, he can hide someplace far within it. Maybe April can be a world traveler looking for antiques and artifacts in Japan and accidentally stumbles upon the turtles. I think you can tell something engaging with a story like that.

[Leo656]

But HOW would you sell it to an audience of people who only know or care about the cartoon(s)? It absolutely doesn't matter how well-done or engaging it is, it HAS to be a commercially viable product to even get a budget.

The 1990 movie worked only because it was very loosely Mirage-inspired. It "worked" because they fudged things a bit to make it more like the cartoon, AND, added more human characters so that the more discerning members of the audience (read: parents) wouldn't be rolling their eyes at the whole thing.

Remove the Turtles' recognizable personalities, the "relationship" between Casey and April, and Danny Pennington as the Audience Avatar, and what you're left with is a movie that no producer would greenlight, because it doesn't check enough demographic boxes. It could be the most faithful or heartfelt take on the property ever done, but it doesn't matter if the producers don't think it has "crossover appeal". Meaning, kids have to like it, their parents have to like it (or at least not think it's drivel), and it has to appeal equally to boys and girls. AND - whether we like it or not - it HAS to have at least the base foundation of a "love story".

That's actually a hard rule, by the way. Every single Hollywood "blockbuster" has to at least tease a coupling between the male/female leads, whether it be flirting or a full-blown kiss at the end credits. I'm not making this up; the character of "Rachel Dawes" was created for Chris Nolan's Batman movies simply because the producers felt that Batman's origin wasn't enough to sell "Batman Begins", and that it would do better with women if they had a love interest. She adds almost nothing to the film aside from being a cliche', but her presence was mandatory or else the movie wasn't getting made. See also, "Chase Meridian" for "Batman Forever", same thing. "The good guy has to kiss someone". It's a rule.

So what's left? Nothing any "purist" or "hardcore fan" would ever want to see could possibly get budget approval. There have to be jokes, the characters' personalities have to be mostly one-dimensional archetypes, and someone has to be trying to get in April's pants (and she's most likely required to be a "star" actress, at this point). Otherwise, no producer in all of Hollywood would agree to put up the money for it. This isn't me saying I agree with their priorities, I'm just saying, "These are the things that are most important in getting ANY movie made". The things TMNT fans most want to see go directly against the blueprint.

Which is why I don't hold my breath for a "good" TMNT movie ever again, and just cherish the 1990 film for what it is, while recognizing that that kind of TMNT film could only have been made under those very specific conditions. I'm not trying to tell anyone there's no Santa Claus; but I have friends all over the place, some of them work in front of the camera and some of them behind it, but these are the things you hear. "They only wanna make a movie if it has ____, _____ and ______." It is what it is.

I think where a lot of fans set themselves up for disappointment, is they talk about what kind of STORY they'd like to see. They forget that movies like TMNT - which by definition are effects-driven and expensive - are NOT about telling stories, they're about selling product. When you're selling product, you have to check the boxes. These aren't "real movies", they're commercials for all the OTHER TMNT media, like the toys - which we all know is where they actually make their money.

Again, if anyone ever does a "real" movie, I'll celebrate. But I know what "the rules" are for getting a movie made, so I don't bother hoping for it. In the current climate it absolutely cannot happen.

[Krutch]

\See also, "Chase Meridian" for "Batman Forever", same thing.
Ohhhhhhhh boy. Dr Chase Meridian.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/0e/d7/7f0ed7e281ea835dcdbb70326c462747.jpg
I think I will go see the good Doctor, thank you!

[Candy Kappa]

That's actually a hard rule, by the way. Every single Hollywood "blockbuster" has to at least tease a coupling between the male/female leads, whether it be flirting or a full-blown kiss at the end credits. I'm not making this up; the character of "Rachel Dawes" was created for Chris Nolan's Batman movies simply because the producers felt that Batman's origin wasn't enough to sell "Batman Begins", and that it would do better with women if they had a love interest. She adds almost nothing to the film aside from being a cliche', but her presence was mandatory or else the movie wasn't getting made. See also, "Chase Meridian" for "Batman Forever", same thing. "The good guy has to kiss someone". It's a rule.

One of the best examples gotta be the Patch Adams movie where not only do we have the mandatory hetero romance shoved in there but she's also fridged, and the character is completely made-up in this "based on a true story" movie.

Adams did have friend that was murdered, but it was a guy and they wheren't romantic.

[Voltron]

It did make it so much more satisfying when she died in TDK, though.

[AquaParade]

Really does make you appreciate the first film.

It's not perfect, but it's a damn miracle for a tmnt fan, as far as I'm concerned. I'm in agreement with a lot of you, that it captures most of what is necessary from Mirage, down to the gritty, low-fi aesthetic.

Could most likely be improved upon itself, if we ever get the director's cut.

As for the future, I still hold out a lot of curiosity, if not hope, for whatever they come up with. The 1990 film will probably always be my favorite, and that can be a positive fact. If they can "check those boxes" with a subtle hand, there can still be room for a future TMNT film with a lot of heart, fun, and possibly some of the edge or grit we love, from Mirage. If not, it's hard for me to be disappointed, after the previous films. I stand back and look with a curious eye, and if it happens to turn out good, then "yay".

[Toxin45]

Really does make you appreciate the first film.

It's not perfect, but it's a damn miracle for a tmnt fan, as far as I'm concerned. I'm in agreement with a lot of you, that it captures most of what is necessary from Mirage, down to the gritty, low-fi aesthetic.

Could most likely be improved upon itself, if we ever get the director's cut.

As for the future, I still hold out a lot of curiosity, if not hope, for whatever they come up with. The 1990 film will probably always be my favorite, and that can be a positive fact. If they can "check those boxes" with a subtle hand, there can still be room for a future TMNT film with a lot of heart, fun, and possibly some of the edge or grit we love, from Mirage. If not, it's hard for me to be disappointed, after the previous films. I stand back and look with a curious eye, and if it happens to turn out good, then "yay".

Mirage became just a a weird adventure and with lacking a rogues gallery sort of slice of life thing.

[Andrew NDB]

It's not perfect, but it's a damn miracle for a tmnt fan, as far as I'm concerned. I'm in agreement with a lot of you, that it captures most of what is necessary from Mirage, down to the gritty, low-fi aesthetic.

It captures maybe 50% of it. Probably 40%. Generously.

[AquaParade]

It captures maybe 50% of it. Probably 40%. Generously.

I think it's more nebulous than that.

Mirage itself managed to capture a semi-wide range of tones in just the first volume. I imagine we are mostly just speaking to the Laird/Eastman - penned issues though, and when it comes to those, I think it captures more than half of what was conveyed in the books.

From the story beats of Saki/Splinter's origin (nobody misses Nagi), Splinter's capture, the flame-encompassed battle in April's shop, which led to Casey's introduction to the family, the final rooftop battle, to the character work on Raphael, and the dark, grainy, DIY aesthetic that I mentioned above, which was a great asset in relating the movie back to those original black and white issues.

Obviously it's not a straight outline of those first twelve-issues (which would be boring - please creators, have some creative liberty when switching storytelling mediums), but you really can't ask for much more...I mean, except for more. We can't really expect him to encompass all that Mirage fully represents in one film, but Steve Baron did a great job of incorporating of lot of the "greatest hits" moments of the early Mirage issues.

Had the first film had sequels by Steve Baron, I imagine we could have seen more Mirage elements thrown into the stew.

I mean, for the 90 minutes it has available, what 60% of crucial elements is it missing from Mirage? I still agree that it's not a perfect Mirage adaption, but unless you're just being facetious, your argument of it only containing "40%" of Mirage - DNA (this is a really tricky thing to accurately measure) is sort of dumbfounding to me.

Yes, there are lighter elements added to the mix. Some of the weaker fight-choreography involved goofy tricks instead of "stabby stabby". I can see that erasing some of that Mirage-feel. Yet, at the same time, they didn't shy away from Saki's gruesome demise in this film, and you also have to remember that Mirage did do "goofy turtles" sometimes. Though that's not a hill I feel the need to die on.

If using these inadequate measurements, I'd say the film is at least 70% Mirage-fueled. Probably more.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think it's more nebulous than that.

Mirage itself managed to capture a semi-wide range of tones in just the first volume. I imagine we are mostly just speaking to the Laird/Eastman - penned issues though, and when it comes to those, I think it captures more than half of what was conveyed in the books.

From the story beats of Saki/Splinter's origin (nobody misses Nagi), Casey's introduction, the final rooftop battle, to the character work on Raphael, and the dark, grainy, DIY aesthetic that I mentioned above, which was a great asset in relating the movie back to those original black and white issues.

Obviously it's not a straight outline of those first twelve-issues (which would be boring - please creators, have some creative liberty when switching storytelling mediums), but you really can't ask for much more...I mean, except for more. We can't really expect him to encompass all that Mirage fully represents in one film.

Had the first film had sequels by Steve Baron, I imagine we could have seen more Mirage elements thrown into the stew.

I mean, for the 90 minutes it has available, what 60% of crucial elements is it missing from Mirage? I still agree that it's not a perfect Mirage adaption, but unless you're just being facetious, your argument of it only containing "40%" of Mirage - DNA (this is a really tricky thing to accurately measure) is sort of dumbfounding to me.

If using these inadequate measurements, I'd say the film is at least 70% Mirage-fueled. Probably more.

Only non-Mirage things I can think of are April being a reporter and colored bandannas. (And, arguably, the characterization of the Turtles.)

And, of course, the Penningtons. Ugh. :tlol:

[AquaParade]

Only non-Mirage things I can think of are April being a reporter and colored bandannas. (And, arguably, the characterization of the Turtles.)

And, of course, the Penningtons. Ugh. :tlol:

True. None of those are lifted straight from Mirage.

But they hardly defy Mirage to a great extent. I prefer red bandanas, but they make just as little sense as the colored ones do. It doesn't necessarily destroy the spirit of Mirage, in my eyes.

And yes, the Penningtons sort of stick out, but they never bothered me. If the focus of the story had been on Danny, sure, but we weren't shortchanged when it came to the turtles. They held most of the screentime. I thought it was actually interesting seeing someone at the ground floor of Shredder's operation. His Foot-Ninja warehouse was also grungy as hell, which fit in with the Mirage look/feel.

New elements, sure, but they don't stand in the way of the film feeling like a Mirage adaption. At least to me.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

True. None of those are lifted straight from Mirage.

But they hardly defy Mirage to a great extent. I prefer red bandanas, but they make just as little sense as the colored ones do. It doesn't necessarily destroy the spirit of Mirage, in my eyes.

And yes, the Penningtons sort of stick out, but they never bothered me. If the focus of the story had been on Danny, sure, but we weren't shortchanged when it came to the turtles. They held most of the screentime. I thought it was actually interesting seeing someone at the ground floor of Shredder's operation. His Foot-Ninja warehouse was also grungy as hell, which fit in with the Mirage look/feel.

New elements, sure, but they don't stand in the way of the film feeling like a Mirage adaption. At least to me.

Oh, I guess we could argue Shredder. Man, that was a watered-down Shredder.

From killing and assassinations and drug running and gun running... to stealing TVs. Oh, how the mighty were adapted for a children's movie. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

Only non-Mirage things I can think of are April being a reporter and colored bandannas. (And, arguably, the characterization of the Turtles.)

And, of course, the Penningtons. Ugh. :tlol:

And the general vibe. They don't really fight the Foot, they like... slapstick them. Block, block, kick, with Looney Tunes sound effects at times. And these aren't Turtles trained to be assassins... that quintessentially makes them different characters. Also, that's not Mikey. And Darth Shredder and his home for troubled youths.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

And the general vibe. They don't really fight the Foot, they like... slapstick them. Block, block, kick, with Looney Tunes sound effects at times. And these aren't Turtles trained to be assassins... that quintessentially makes them different characters. Also, that's not Mikey. And Darth Shredder and his home for troubled youths.

Oh yeah, the slapstick fights...

The final fight had great choreography for the moves, but Shredder just flexing and posing while the Turtles talk. I forgot about that, that was moronic. :tlol:

[AquaParade]

And the general vibe. They don't really fight the Foot, they like... slapstick them. Block, block, kick, with Looney Tunes sound effects at times. And these aren't Turtles trained to be assassins.. that quintessentially makes them different characters. Also, that's not Mikey. And Darth Shredder and his home for troubled youths.

I'd say this is your strongest point against the film being faithful to Mirage. Them not being raised with the sole purpose of assassinating Saki does put a somewhat different spin on the characters.

That said, I'm still not convinced the film isn't, overall, quite faithful to the Mirage books. There's just too much lifted straight from the books, along with a general feel and tone that harkens back to Mirage.

Obviously we can agree to disagree at this point.

[Toxin45]

I'd say this is your strongest point against the film being faithful to Mirage. Them not being raised with the sole purpose of assassinating Saki does put a somewhat different spin on the characters.

That said, I'm still not convinced the film isn't, overall, quite faithful to the Mirage books. There's just too much lifted straight from the books, along with a general feel and tone that harkens back to Mirage.

Obviously we can agree to disagree at this point.

Well mirage itself was far from perfect but it's okay.

[Papenbrook]

Yeah, doesn't seem uncommon to have more than one working together. The last two films had the two guys, and the film that article is about has hired three.



Not TMNT related, from Dec 2017:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/3-female-screenwriters-crashing-blockbuster-boys-club-i-want-see-a-female-darth-vader-1063482

Trigger warning (must I really say this?) on the use of "feminist" and that angle of the article for those at risk of meltdowns over such things. THAT ASIDE, reading the interview she was a part of, I'm kind of liking her attitude already. Will be curious to see what she can bring to a script for our guys. (And April too.)




I guess we missed this one from the 15th that does mention her.
http://sciencefiction.com/2019/01/15/producers-hope-start-filming-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reboot-year/

Cool.

I hope she'll help bring a more feminist take for the franchise.

[Autbot_Benz]

Cool.

I hope she'll help bring a more feminist take for the franchise.

we don't need a feminist take on Turtles. We already got the feminist take on Ghostbusters and that was a flaming dumpster fire of which the world has never seen.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

we don't need a feminist take on Turtles. We already got the feminist take on Ghostbusters and that was a flaming dumpster fire of which the world has never seen.

No no no no...

Feigeturtles will be amazing. I can't wait to watch Melissa McCarthy voice a motion-capture Michelangelo.

That's what the TMNT need; more queef jokes.

[Leo656]

The fact that it was Maggie Gyllenhaal and her "drank from the False Grail" face rather than the delightfully lickable Katie Holmes did make it so much more satisfying when she died in TDK, though.

:tgrin::tgrin::tgrin:

[Krutch]

Cool.

I hope she'll help bring a more feminist take for the franchise.I gotta ask - what about TMNT screams feminist to you?

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Honestly, no matter what they do with this reboot, I feel if they want to make it succeed, it has to be something brand new we haven't seen on the big screen before. I think they will try a new approach with the TMNT, SOMETHING NO FILM VERSION HAS DONE BEFORE, I just don't know what. no, I don't think it will be making them a dark and gritty TMNT take, but something new and different, that keeps the origin and mythology intact, but does something new with it.

[IndigoErth]

Up until the point someone felt the need to put "April" in a school girl uniform, the Turtles have always been pretty good in this aspect really. Given the same company is still involved, getting a woman as part of the writing team is probably a good idea.

The Turtles don't need to be girls to be relatable, nor does a little feminist oversight, in a project run by PD, need to turn anyone into one. These guys have long been rather feminist already, in the truest and best sense of the word. They don't look down on their female friends nor assume that being girls means their skills as allies in combat aren't as good. They don't assume a female enemy, such as Karai, should be any less formidable than an equally trained male foe, and they don't get butthurt over being bested by a girl. Heck... sometimes they're even a bit smitten by a girl who can hold her own against them. These guys are kinda feminist, but in the best ways possible and is part of the good heart of TMNT and needs to remain.

[Toxin45]

Up until the point someone felt the need to put "April" in a school girl uniform, the Turtles have always been pretty good in this aspect really. Given the same company is still involved, getting a woman as part of the writing team is probably a good idea.

The Turtles don't need to be girls to be relatable, nor does a little feminist oversight, in a project run by PD, need to turn anyone into one. These guys have long been rather feminist already, in the truest and best sense of the word. They don't look down on their female friends nor assume that being girls means their skills as allies in combat aren't as good. They don't don't assume a female enemy, such as Karai, should be any less formidable than an equally trained male foe, and they don't get butthurt over being bested by a girl. Heck... sometimes they're even a bit smitten by a girl who can hold her own against them.
Like how Leo is sometimes act around Karai in some versions?

[Krutch]

The Turtles don't need to be girls to be relatable, nor does a little feminist oversight, in a project run by PD, need to turn anyone into one. These guys have long been rather feminist already, in the truest and best sense of the word. They don't look down on their female friends nor assume that being girls means their skills as allies in combat aren't as good. They don't assume a female enemy, such as Karai, should be any less formidable than an equally trained male foe, and they don't get butthurt over being bested by a girl. Heck... sometimes they're even a bit smitten by a girl who can hold her own against them. These guys are kinda feminist, but in the best ways possible and is part of the good heart of TMNT and needs to remain.

Well said. And does it all without preaching, too.

[Galactus]

But HOW would you sell it to an audience of people who only know or care about the cartoon(s)? It absolutely doesn't matter how well-done or engaging it is, it HAS to be a commercially viable product to even get a budget.

Well the last movie was sold to an audience that everyone assumed only knew or cared about the cartoon(s) and it tanked.

I'm not being a curmudgeon on this. I grew up with the 80s show and love it for what it is, I've never felt that it easily lent itself to a live action setting but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least curious about about a movie with the Fred Wolf show as it's main inspiration.

Thing is for a long time people have been screaming very loudly how the 80s show in live action was basically a license to print money and the only version the general audience would ever accept. We know people in Hollywood that have handled the property have felt the same way but there's always been something that has stopped the movies going fully in that direction but finally they were able to do it in climate just right for it...and it failed.

It's not like this was some bastardized version of the cartoon. Bebop & Rocksteady, Krang, the Technodrome (when it was fully assembled) looked and were characterized exactly how you'd want them to be, they even pulled from specific episodes particularly the Eye of Sarnath stuff. Sure, there were a few things that fell short, the turtle designs even weirdly smoothed out still didn't really fit and we didn't get a proper Technodrome battle which I'm sure was an issue of budget but ultimately it was a more than reasonable version of the old show. Even stuff that I personally felt made the old show look like Shakespeare like the Loony Tunes-esque physics and absurd Party Wagon with flailing nunchuk arms is something else people have incessantly argued for. The whole idea that the only way to do TMNT is to really lean into the goofyness and yet the public largely turned their noses up at it.

If fans still want to argue the case for the old show fair enough but you can no longer use the argument this is the only version the general public will accept because they had it and did not accept it. The question now is if general public wont accept that what will they accept?

I know some people will argue that the 2014 movie made money purely out of curiosity (and of course soured people in "superior" sequel) but I just don't buy that. Yeah it was garbage and a lot of us could see it was going to be garbage early on and it never really recovered from "It's just a mask. See?" But to a lot of people it just looked much more like a modern comic book movie, even the marketing was aimed at the same audience that make those movies a hit as opposed to the bizarre attempt at a coalition of 30-somethings and 8-12 year olds the sequels marketing was aimed at.

"Hey kids d'ya like TMNT on Nickelodeon? Well here's your dad's version":roll:

The 2014 movie didn't fall short because it was ever so slightly serious and had a smidgen of edge in the visuals. It was just was not a good take on these things and yeah I feel if the foundation had been the Mirage story and they were not dead set on the idea that this was a new version and thus you had to completely re-imagine it, it would have been better. You could still easily fit the whole captured and escaping down a snowy mountain in a Mirage inspired story.

I don't think anyone - even Andrew is advocating a panel for panel recreation of the Mirage comic and most of what people like about TMNT is either already present in the original or could easily be inserted. Human POV characters, romance, large scale action basically anything that currently works in Hollywood now could easily fit with a Mirage inspired movie just like 1990 movie did.

[Krutch]

Well the last movie was sold to an audience that everyone assumed only knew or cared about the cartoon(s) and it tanked.It could have been the greatest movie ever made and it would have tanked because it was a sequel to the 2014 movie. No one was going to show up for a sequel to a movie nobody liked.

[Toxin45]

Well the last movie was sold to an audience that everyone assumed only knew or cared about the cartoon(s) and it tanked.

I'm not being a curmudgeon on this. I grew up with the 80s show and love it for what it is, I've never felt that it easily lent itself to a live action setting but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least curious about about a movie with the Fred Wolf show as it's main inspiration.

Thing is for a long time people have been screaming very loudly how the 80s show in live action was basically a license to print money and the only version the general audience would ever accept. We know people in Hollywood that have handled the property have felt the same way but there's always been something that has stopped the movies going fully in that direction but finally they were able to do it in climate just right for it...and it failed.

It's not like this was some bastardized version of the cartoon. Bebop & Rocksteady, Krang, the Technodrome (when it was fully assembled) looked and were characterized exactly how you'd want them to be, they even pulled from specific episodes particularly the Eye of Sarnath stuff. Sure, there were a few things that fell short, the turtle designs even weirdly smoothed out still didn't really fit and we didn't get a proper Technodrome battle which I'm sure was an issue of budget but ultimately it was a more than reasonable version of the old show. Even stuff that I personally felt made the old show look like Shakespeare like the Loony Tunes-esque physics and absurd Party Wagon with flailing nunchuk arms is something else people have incessantly argued for. The whole idea that the only way to do TMNT is to really lean into the goofyness and yet the public largely turned their noses up at it.

If fans still want to argue the case for the old show fair enough but you can no longer use the argument this is the only version the general public will accept because they had it and did not accept it. The question now is if general public wont accept that what will they accept?

I know some people will argue that the 2014 movie made money purely out of curiosity (and of course soured people in "superior" sequel) but I just don't buy that. Yeah it was garbage and a lot of us could see it was going to be garbage early on and it never really recovered from "It's just a mask. See?" But to a lot of people it just looked much more like a modern comic book movie, even the marketing was aimed at the same audience that make those movies a hit as opposed to the bizarre attempt at a coalition of 30-somethings and 8-12 year olds the sequels marketing was aimed at.

"Hey kids d'ya like TMNT on Nickelodeon? Well here's your dad's version":roll:

The 2014 movie didn't fall short because it had ever so slightly serious and had a smidgen of edge in the visuals. It was just a good take on these things and yeah I feel if the foundation had been the Mirage story and they were not dead set on the idea that this was a new version and thus you had to completely re-imagine it, it would have been better. You could still easily fit the whole captured and escaping down a snowy mountain in a Mirage inspired story.

I don't think anyone - even Andrew is advocating a panel for panel recreation of the Mirage comic and most of what people like about TMNT is either already present in the original but you could easily put in a lot of what works in Hollywood now just like 1990 movie did.
So do you like the mirage,Archie,and idw comics? Just asking.

[Galactus]

It could have been the greatest movie ever made and it would have tanked because it was a sequel to the 2014 movie. No one was going to show up for a sequel to a movie nobody liked.

I don't buy that.

I'm sure some people were put off but Paramount and Platinum Dunes did a very effective job with their promotion. Basically selling the entire thing as the biggest apology ever, every trailer made it abundantly clear this was going to be a very different movie to the first.

They listened to the fans and fixed all that was perceived to be wrong with the first. Trying to be "dark" and "serious"? Well this is a complete goofy slapstick, Not enough like the old cartoon? Well here's everything from the old cartoon. Problem is I don't think these were the real problems with the 2014 movie.

Also the first movie not only had a good opening but had decent legs against Guardians of the Galaxy whereas the sequel had a full two weeks to turn it's poor opening around before Finding Dory was released. Positive word of mouth could done that; it didn't.

So do you like the mirage,Archie,and idw comics? Just asking.

I like all of 'em.

I'm not sure the Archie book would make a good basis for a movie. Turtles with a globetrotting theme could work since I think that's what Platinum Dunes would like.

In the Blue Door script the four turtles scatter to different parts of the world. I vaguely remember them saying that in Out Of The Shadows they originally planned to have two of the macguffins to open the portal to be in two separate countries but I'm guessing time and budget meant they stuck with Brazil and probably left China for the third movie.

Not sure how the political and environmental themes would go down. Turtles fighting for a free Tibet and avenging murdered Labour union leaders in Brazil might not sit well with some people in this climate. Besides one of the more important characters in that run is owned by her creators so Ninjara is out.

I wouldn't say no to an IDW based movie. In many ways it's almost seems as if Waltz made with intention of being something to pass round a Hollywood board room. It's take on the origin in particular is something I could see appealing to Hollywood execs...a few years ago. They are a lab experiment gone wrong and reincarnated ancient Japanese warriors.

I've often argued that we shouldn't accept that people knowing the turtles origin is a given but if we reasonably take a chance on them knowing the ooze, raised in sewer part of the origin something like Secret History of the Foot Clan would be a good basis for a movie.

[Krutch]

I don't buy that.

I'm sure some people were put off but Paramount and Platinum Dunes did a very effective job with their promotion. Basically selling the entire thing as the biggest apology ever, every trailer made it abundantly clear this was going to be a very different movie to the first.

They listened to the fans and fixed all that was perceived to be wrong with the first. Trying to be "dark" and "serious"? Well this is a complete goofy slapstick not enough like the old cartoon? Well here's everything from the old cartoon. Problem is I don't think these were the real problems with the 2014 movie. I mean, we're both just talking theory here, but... I can't think of a single example where a sequel to a universally panned movie outperforms it's predecessor, can you?

The goodwill of the franchise pretty much lands squarely on the first entry. If it's too far off the mark the first time, people won't come back. Even though OOTS had Bebop, Rocksteady, and Krang - you're still stuck with 9 feet tall superpowered bulletproof mutants clowning around with Megan Fox who learned ninjitsu from a coffee table book.

The first movie rubbed alot of people the wrong way, and in my opinion, rightfully so.

[Leo656]

I don't remember it being "universally" panned.

I remember many, many viewers AND critics opining that, while by no means a "good movie", the first BayTurtles movie was "exactly the right amount of stupid as TMNT is supposed to be," and meaning it in a positive way.

Granted, I did and do want to throttle those people, but nevertheless, that's what they said. "It's stupid, like TMNT's always been stupid. So if you're stupid, and you like stupid things, it's just stupid enough for you, stupid. It's not good but it's what it should be."

Obviously the overall temperature has turned by NOW, but I remember a lot of enthusiasm at the time, although it was damning with faint praise to say the least.

[Krutch]

I think you're remembering wrong, homie. What you're describing is more the reception of Out of the Shadows. The "buzz" around the first movie was almost all negative. It all started with the whole being aliens thing and they never recovered from there. Even now it sits at 22% on RT with a 51% audience score. Hardly a passing grade.

It has it's fans, sure - what doesn't? - but by and large nobody really liked it.

[Xav]

I mean, we're both just talking theory here, but... I can't think of a single example where a sequel to a universally panned movie outperforms it's predecessor, can you?Well the Transformers films made less domestically but they made more and more worldwide.

[Krutch]

Yeah, but most people liked the first one anyways so it's a moot point.

[Leo656]

I think you're remembering wrong, homie. What you're describing is more the reception of Out of the Shadows. The "buzz" around the first movie was almost all negative. It all started with the whole being aliens thing and they never recovered from there. Even now it sits at 22% on RT with a 51% audience score. Hardly a passing grade.

It has it's fans, sure - what doesn't? - but by and large nobody really liked it.

I don't know, I can only call what I saw. I don't go on many websites, but all I saw anywhere from Cracked to Screen Rant was, "TMNT was always dumb, if you don't think so you just got too old to remember, so just turn your brain off and go with it." That was from the beginning, and then they just doubled down on it for the sequel. Not to mention in "Real Life", anyone I've ever talked to who's seen that movie just raves about it (and the sequel). They're "perfect" and "just like the cartoons!" as far as they're concerned. I've only ever talked to a few people who thought it was bad. Most people in my circle who wouldn't have liked it just didn't bother watching it. Anyone I've talked to about it just wonders why the hell a movie about TMNT was even 1% serious to begin with. So we don't talk about it much. They just ask me if I'm still a TMNT fan, and I say "no" so we don't have to talk about the movies at all. It's... simpler.

But I vividly remember seeing and being told that I was foolish for wanting a good movie way before we heard anything about Bebop and Rocksteady. Not to mention, this forum was overwhelmed with "fans" from the jump, while people like me were constantly on the defensive for pointing out what was wrong with it, or where the filmmakers had flat-out lied about this or that. Some of them were undoubtedly plants but many of them are still here, and have no problem explaining why they think it's great.

I mean, yeah obviously most critics gave it poor marks but that was to be expected, the movies weren't for them. I do know that there was already a vocal chorus of "This is Just Fine, stop taking things seriously" going back to the first one, and they all just got way louder for the second one.

Anyways, no, I could introduce you to people who even think the first one was great. I can't in good conscience call anything "universally" anything if I personally encounter the exact opposite phenomenon on a regular basis, even if it's almost certainly true-ish. I can't call what I don't see.

I do agree in general, though, that most people with any taste at all probably didn't care for it, but they also probably didn't watch it, or only did so because it was their job. People who went into it willingly tend to have a much higher opinion of both movies, I've noticed. Be it lowered expectations or something else entirely, a lot of people got exactly what they wanted and they don't mind telling you about it.

I think what puts me in the minority is that the second one seemed worse.

[Galactus]

I don't really buy that critics will always give TMNT bad reviews. In the past few years there's been a huge increase in critics lauding the kind of movies that would previously have confounded them.

The reason for this is that a new generation of movie critics have come into the profession that are of the age to "get" comic book movies and have gotten into prominent positions for their nerd cred since basically that's the dominant genre by far. If there's any point in history that TMNT wouldn't just be instantly be written of as trash it's now; it just has to be a good TMNT movie.

True, audiences tend to be more forgiving than critics. For me the friends that I went to see the 2014 movie didn't care for it but didn't think it was quite the travesty I did but kinda liked the snow chase scene.

One thing that stuck out to me is that they all "could see what they were going for" but didn't quite get there. I found that attitude much more prevalent with movie apologists online. While a lot of stuff like Eric Sachs and learning ninjitsu from a book was garbage it's fair to say not every idea the movie put forward was bad but they were certainly executed badly. I think a lot of people the movie's defenders could see that and were "willing" the movie series to do better with these ideas.

Plus a lot of these people saw things that just were not there. I had tons of conversations both here and other boards with people who were convinced Splinter's comment about not remembering anything prior to being in the lab meant we were going to get Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki backstory in some way, the comment about the mutagen being from space was clearly to set up that Shredder had some connection to Krang and whole mythology was subtly being laid out. They knew the first movie wasn't the best but now they've ironed out the problems the sequel will redeem all this promise.

In many ways it reminded me how DCEU fans were (sorry Leo) with some being denial (critics are all paid off by Disney) and others grudgingly acknowledging that while the Snyder ones were not good somehow, someway it will all work with next Snyder DC movie and then the next.

Y'know I wonder if that somehow factored in to Out Of The Shadows failure. If you to some degree were optimistic about this new vision of TMNT and the mythology you thought was being built and you see that sequel goes a complete 180 and jettisons all that and is just a movie for kids you might give up on it too.

[Krutch]

I don't really buy that critics will always give TMNT bad reviews. In the past few years there's been a huge increase in critics lauding the kind of movies that would previously have confounded them.

The reason for this is that a new generation of movie critics have come into the profession that are of the age to "get" comic book movies and have gotten into prominent positions for their nerd cred since basically that's the dominant genre by far. If there's any point in history that TMNT wouldn't just be instantly be written of as trash it's now; it just has to be a good TMNT movie.

Yup. Nailed it. I don't see why the same critics that would give Bumblebee critical praise would draw the line at TMNT.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I know it's going to make me look a bit biased, but they should really use the 1990 movie as a main inspiration. Don't have a TMNT be about saving the world. Have it low key. Have the Turtles stop a crime wave. The Turtles to me have always worked best when they, for example, take down an entire crime ring, and no one outside of it knows about it.

Have the Turtles have that brotherly bond that's important for their type of characters. Also, don't have them 6 foot tall, hulking behemoths that look like they can easily smash a truck door open with their bare fists (because if they can do that, who needs stuff like Bo Staffs and Swords?). Hvae a more traditional look, while also doing some twists on the look to better differentiate them (like the 2012 show)

But most importantly, write a good script. Learn from your previous mistakes

[Andrew NDB]

Good script. Go back to the Mirage comics and start again, but modernized to 2019.

[IndigoErth]

that look like they can easily smash a truck door open with their bare fists
Or, as the case may be, Mikey smashing his fist through the roof of one. Or throwing around shipping containers in the beginning. Or somehow jump through the side of a van with no way to even get the momentum required to even try to bust through it. :tconfuse: I can put up with them being bigger than typical (though 6'+ is definitely a bit much), but that stuff is absurd. They still shouldn't be doing that stuff for gods sake. Maybe they're mutants, and maybe they're a little stronger than a typical human, but they shouldn't mean they're superhuman, so to speak.



I don't mind the world saving stuff, they've done it plenty enough, but it would be nice IF somehow it was good enough to garner it a whole bunch of sequels and save the world saving for much later, keeping it simple in early films and letting them grow into a larger role as time goes on.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Good script. Go back to the Mirage comics and start again, but modernized to 2019.

This man speaks the most sense. To me, anyway

I don't mind the world saving stuff, they've done it plenty enough, but it would be nice IF somehow it was good enough to garner it a whole bunch of sequels and save the world saving for much later, keeping it simple in early films and letting them grow into a larger role as time goes on.

Exactly. The world saving aspect would be a lot more interesting if we spent a few movies getting to know the characters first, develop them, establish the world these characters live in and THEN have someone who puts the world at risk in the final movie of the trilogy

[Leo656]

With an actual, physical "script" becoming less and less important in modern "blockbuster" filmmaking - indeed, the vast majority of these things either shoot with NO script, or, only the barest summary of one - you guys sure have a lot of hope.

And make no mistake, for as expensive as any TMNT movie will have to be, they're definitely going to keep pushing them as slightly-smaller versions of the bigger CBMs - heavy on spectacle and SFX. Which means, most likely, they're NOT going to sit down and write a story A-to-Z - even if the logistics of basic storytelling demand it. No, what they're going to keep doing is, imagine a spectacular "set piece" like the snow chase in the first BayTurtles movie, and then retrofit the entire film around that one expensive bit.

That's how these movies are made nowadays, and that's what's going to happen with every TMNT movie going forward. Script? HAH! How quaint. Don't hold your breath.

[AquaParade]

I feel like the best we can reasonably hope for, at this point, is a quality family friendly action film. Something like "How to Train your Dragon", "Big Hero 6", or, hell, maybe even Spider-Verse, when it comes to tone and quality. Watch Lorde and Miller take an interest the franchise.

Of course, I'd rather have something inspired by the Mirage or IDW comics. I'd do terrible things for a great film based on the books. But the above description, to me, is sort of a middle-ground that I could truly appreciate, if done well.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Good script. Go back to the Mirage comics and start again, but modernized to 2019.

This is the only right way to do it, honestly.

[Toxin45]

Good script. Go back to the Mirage comics and start again, but modernized to 2019.

Right but this is nick so proably not.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Right but this is nick so proably not.

Whether Mirage continues or not, you really should stop insisting to spite those that love it.

[Toxin45]

Whether Mirage continues or not, you really should stop insisting to spite those that love it.

I wasn't dude jeez.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I'm not hopeful. I'll judge based on the first teaser/trailer, but I'm not looking forward to it

Morbid curiosity is probably more what I'd use

Also, I'm sick of the general public thinking 'You have to have Shredder, he's the main TMNT Villain, and it wouldn't work without him'

Since the 80s show, that has kinda been the case, but it doesn't have to be.

[Andrew NDB]

Also, I'm sick of the general public thinking 'You have to have Shredder, he's the main TMNT Villain, and it wouldn't work without him'

TMNT doesn't even need a "main villain." Ignore those morons.

[neatoman]

Yeah. There's plenty of villains to pick from anyway. Baxter Stockman, The Triceratons, The Federation, Savanti, etc. You wouldn't really run out even if you did pick a new one every movie.

Saying Shredder is the only villain that could work is like saying The X-Men should only fight Magneto.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah. There's plenty of villains to pick from anyway. Baxter Stockman, The Triceratons, The Federation, Savanti, etc. You wouldn't really run out even if you did pick a new one every movie.

Saying Shredder is the only villain that could work is like saying The X-Men should only fight Magneto.

According to Fox, this is correct. :tlol:

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

If I were to do a TMNT trilogy, I would have the Shredder only in the first movie, who can then be defeated/killed at the end, with possibly a post credits sequence teasing something bigger

Then the next 2 movies would be the Triceratons attempting to enslave Earth, but that would only take up the last movie. The 2nd movie would involve the TMNT going to their planet in the second half of the movie

[TigerClaw]

If they are rebooting with the 3rd TMNT Movie. They should get Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa as the voice for Splinter. I think he would be perfect.

[Xav]

Also, I'm sick of the general public thinking 'You have to have Shredder, he's the main TMNT Villain, and it wouldn't work without him'

Since the 80s show, that has kinda been the case, but it doesn't have to be.Except, the general public are the ones paying to see these films. So far every film lacking Shredder has been a failure. It's going to be hard to convince the studio to try something new.

[IndigoErth]

Had the last film actually included Shredder in any way that really mattered, it at least found a convenient way of putting him into storage for later. In a total reboot, I don't think I'd skip him from the start, but by the end of a first one either defeat him or like 2016 find a way to put him away for a while and then have a new foe and arc in a sequel. Having him captured and imprisoned in deep space (or Dimension X) to show up again eventually in a later film might not be a terrible idea...


So long as the part that average viewers are familiar with is handled first, if a film is GOOD it might peak their interest to later see something as crazy as alien dinosaurs and other aspects of TMNT that may be new and exciting to them.

Granted I more-so what "new and exciting" for us... (Legit new stories, not revamped and twisted to try to pretend to be new. And new stuff in works for them.)

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Except, the general public are the ones paying to see these films. So far every film lacking Shredder has been a failure.

Which has got 100% to do with the quality of the films, not because Shredder isn't in them

Shredder was in the 2014 AND the 2016 movie, but those were both garbage

[newfan]

I don't think every TMNT movie has to have Shredder, personally I would like to see him again as I like the character and wasn't happy with him in the last reboot. I like that foot and feud part of the story. Saying that, if they were making more than one movie (lets pretend this new one goes down better) then I can wait for him to come later on if something else was explored first.

I just wonder how much of the story they will plan to share before production starts.

[RaphaelinSTL]

TMNT doesn't even need a "main villain." Ignore those morons.

Exactly. I say the first movie should be about TMNT vs. the Purple Dragons so you can establish a better relationship with the TMNT and care about them as further movies could explore more situations with bigger obstacles in the form of like Baxter Stockman's Fly, Shredder and Krang (done correctly) and even so many more.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Exactly. I say the first movie should be about TMNT vs. the Purple Dragons so you can establish a better relationship with the TMNT and care about them as further movies could explore more situations with bigger obstacles in the form of like Baxter Stockman's Fly, Shredder and Krang (done correctly) and even so many more.

I don't see the Purple Dragons being enough for a movie. Not unless Hun is leading them and the movie has a major focus on Casey Jones and Hun, I guess...

[IndigoErth]

Not to change the subject, but I kind of wish we'd hear at least some little tidbit of info soon. Even just some suggestion of casting being considered or esp in the area of design concepts being looked at (not that we'd actually see them), or writers pulling together what they hopefully feel is a solid and not at all half-assed story. Some hint of things that are underway for a film they've suggested starting to shoot as early as later this year... Because is it really enough time to do all the pre-production work...?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The only hope for TMNT is a creative director with a passion for TMNT.

We need a Peter Jackson, a Christopher Nolan, a Guillermo del Toro, a Taika Waititi, a Zack Snyder, SOMEBODY with a vision beyond just making toy sales. At this point, I'll take a bad vision over a bottom-dollar toy sales vision.

[newfan]

Not to change the subject, but I kind of wish we'd hear at least some little tidbit of info soon. Even just some suggestion of casting being considered or esp in the area of design concepts being looked at (not that we'd actually see them), or writers pulling together what they hopefully feel is a solid and not at all half-assed story. Some hint of things that are underway for a film they've suggested starting to shoot as early as later this year... Because is it really enough time to do all the pre-production work...?

Yeah I was wondering the same thing, if shooting is still scheduled for that time that is, is it unusually quiet at this point?

[Galactus]

Also, I'm sick of the general public thinking 'You have to have Shredder, he's the main TMNT Villain, and it wouldn't work without him'

Since the 80s show, that has kinda been the case, but it doesn't have to be.

Shredder is without question the most famous. Out of the Shadows gave us what the second, third, fourth and fifth well known villains all in one movie and that wasn't enough to get asses on seats. We're going to have to win the public over with a Shredder movie first and when you have their faith then take chances on deeper cuts.

There's also the unfortunate fact that many of the better known turtles rogues are conceptually poor final boss villains.

Like if you had a villainous version of Leatherhead as you're main antagonist what would his evil masterplan that the turtles would have to stop be?

What would a third act blowout in a movie that had the Rat King as the main villain? The turtles fighting rats? Even mutant rats wouldn't make me that enthusiastic.

Baxster Stockman and the Triceratons have some potential but I think the former would be better served as a secondary villain providing tech to whoever the main villain is and I think the Triceratons would be best done like their original story were the turtles are teleported away to fight in the Triceraton arena and they have to escape and get back to earth to stop whoever the real villain is.

TMNT doesn't even need a "main villain." Ignore those morons.

A lot of times comic heroes tend to be defined by their villains. When you crack open say a Batman comic knowing it's a Joker story you know you're likely in a for a particular kind of story as opposed to be a Penguin one.

A common theme in Mirage TMNT is when they don't have a primary antagonist to fight or mission they seem lost. That's an interesting story in itself but I mostly prefer them to have some purpose.

Most Mirage villains tend to be random one-offs which are fine but there's something to be said recurring villains and of the ones that have lasted...well they aren't really villains. Karai, Leatherhead even Rat King are all quasi allies even the Mirage Triceratons apparently help little ill will for humiliating their leader and revered warriors.

That's why I didn't mind the possibility of some of the 4kids villains like Hun and Bishop migrating to Mirage. They conceptually fit in their world and villains you can build arcs around beyond a random person or thing to fight.

[Andrew NDB]

A common theme in Mirage TMNT is when they don't have a primary antagonist to fight or mission they seem lost. That's an interesting story in itself but I mostly prefer them to have some purpose.

Most Mirage villains tend to be random one-offs which are fine but there's something to be said recurring villains and of the ones that have lasted...well they aren't really villains. Karai, Leatherhead even Rat King are all quasi allies even the Mirage Triceratons apparently help little ill will for humiliating their leader and revered warriors.

That's why I didn't mind the possibility of some of the 4kids villains like Hun and Bishop migrating to Mirage. They conceptually fit in their world and villains you can build arcs around beyond a random person or thing to fight.

Their "mission" and "purpose" should fluctuate with every new story arc.

Sadly, beginning with Vol 2. and going into Vol. 4 (not including Vol. 3) the very idea of "story arcs" were jettisoned. So I understand what you're saying... it just needn't be any singular villain, or even a villain at all.

[Leo656]

If we're making a movie, though... we need more of a "plot" besides, "Robbed of their singular purpose, our heroes drift aimlessly trying to find their place in a world that doesn't want them. And then they probably go their separate ways, live relatively-uneventful lives, and die."

Works fine on the printed page. But that would be one meandering, boring-ass movie. They need to Fight Someone. That "someone" needs to have Evil Intentions and The TMNT have to be the only ones both privy to it AND capable of stopping it, because that is how movies work. And if we actually want people to show up, it really needs to be someone that the general audience is both familiar with and has a strong opinion of.

That just leaves Shredder. It is what it is.

Galactus makes a lot of sense. The reason the movies have and will focus so much on having them fight Shredder is... they kind of have no choice if they want anyone except for the people on this forum to pay to see the goddamn thing.

[IndigoErth]

But that's also why they should start with Shredder to bring viewers in and care enough to make GOOD engaging films that will grant it a few sequels that people actually want to see, and among those work in some additional villains, hinted at in the end of each previous film, and introduce the general audience to further TMNT lore. (And if they have time maybe make up a new one or two -- but again GOOD, and suitable for TMNT -- for us too.)

"Robbed of their singular purpose, our heroes drift aimlessly trying to find their place in a world that doesn't want them. And then they probably go their separate ways, live relatively-uneventful lives, and die."
But so relatable! lol

Bad for a movie, but two decades from now that premise will probably be a live action/CGI TMNT 'reality' show. :tlol:

[Leo656]

Oh sure, if they really nail the first movie in a series they can - in theory - go in whatever direction they want after that. But realistically, Shredder is always gonna be the Main Villain of the series and that's just the way it is. Even if they did one or two other movies with different villains they'd still have to cycle him back in eventually.

It's like Lex Luthor in Superman movies. You don't HAVE to use him every single time, but whenever you don't, you get an annoying number of people asking Why Not. So it's always gonna come back to that because it's what people are familiar with.

There's ways to do it without making it feel redundant, but... they actually FIRST just have to do a decent movie in general. The rest comes later.

[slingtheory]

As much as I love the shredder as a character I really wouldn't want to start with him for the third time. It's too much been there done that imo. There's been over 30 years of tmnt media so I find it tough to believe there isn't a screen writer alive that cant find a threat other than the foot clan that they think can hold an audiences attention for 2 hours. Personally what i hope for is that a new film series would take the opportunity to try to introduce the general public to the wider world of tmnt lore. like just off the top of my head maybe a movie where the turtles are being hunted by bishop or stockman. Or maybe both. Drop in some foot Easter eggs and build up some anticipation for later

[AquaParade]

I'm excited to hear more info about this.

I think it might just appeal to the gambling-loving side of my personality. Odds are stacked in the favor of this movie totally sucking, but there's just a small enough chance, based on feedback, that the film will be good. Makes it fun to keep an eye on and root for.

Plus, it's always fascinating to see what happens to a franchise you love.