Another movie from Platinum Dunes in the works - new writer hired

[Vicky82]

As they wan't to start production later this year and we are now in mid April, I guess we will hear more info pretty soon.

[Autbot_Benz]

I'm excited to hear more info about this.

I think it might just appeal to the gambling-loving side of my personality. Odds are stacked in the favor of this movie totally sucking, but there's just a small enough chance, based on feedback, that the film will be good. Makes it fun to keep an eye on and root for.

Plus, it's always fascinating to see what happens to a franchise you love.

They need to Bumblebee the TMNT Movies get travis knight or someone who actually cares about the turtle franchise to direct.

[AquaParade]

They need to Bumblebee the TMNT Movies get travis knight or someone who actually cares about the turtle franchise to direct.

I generally agree with this sentiment, even though Bumblebee wasn't the huge improvement for me, that it seemed to be for many others. I did like the lead.

To me the key ingredient, right in front of their noses, is to follow the source material.

Look Platinum Dunes, you're working with a comicbook franchise. Now, what is the most successful Movie studio ever doing with their comicbook franchise?? They're adapting and modernizing the comics. Giving fans something new and robust, but using the source material as a compass.

Look again. Which TMNT movie has been the most successful? The one that is most faithful to the source material. Even the figures based on said film are flying off shelves. Huh, look at that.

Wake up, Platinum Dunes. You are sitting on a gold mine and it's 1949.

[IndigoErth]

As they wan't to start production later this year and we are now in mid April, I guess we will hear more info pretty soon.
Unless they're terrified of us after the criticism with the last films. :tlol: The kind that made them change the title, Shredder, etc.


I do worry that it might keep them from wanting to share much. But keeping things like the 2014 designs under wraps for so long did not help anything because people really didn't have sufficient times to at least get used to it first and accept it for what it is. If they keep a lot of this one quiet for a long time, for their own sake they better at least be making good decisions.

[The-Shredder]

Unless they're terrified of us after the criticism with the last films. :tlol: The kind that made them change the title, Shredder, etc.


I do worry that it might keep them from wanting to share much. But keeping things like the 2014 designs under wraps for so long did not help anything because people really didn't have sufficient times to at least get used to it first and accept it for what it is. If they keep a lot of this one quiet for a long time, for their own sake they better at least be making good decisions.

If I remember correctly, didn't our first look at the 2014 design come from a leaked picture of a Michelangelo Halloween costume? :tconfuse:

[Leo656]

Yep! And a lot of folks were like, "Nahhhh, it can't look THAT bad"... and then it was even worse.

Viacom doesn't "get it" and never will. They wanna shoot this year, with not even a whisper about a script or a cast. Everyone in Hollywood is a blabbermouth; we'd have heard SOMEthing if there was anything going on. If they do it at all, it's gonna be a slapdash rush-job with the bare minimum of effort. It's very possible that it could turn out even worse than the last two, hard as it is to believe. For one thing, we know for a fact they're not gonna spend anywhere near as much money. For a CGI-heavy action flick, that's bad.

It baffles me why anyone chooses to be hopeful about the future of TMNT films. The game is f*cking OVER, folks. It's not even me being cynical, it's simple analysis of the basic bare facts that exist. Hoping for anything less than total schlock from a live-action TMNT film ever again is an exercise in frustration. It's painful to watch. "But maybe....!" No. Stop that. They CAN'T make a good TMNT movie. They don't know how, and they're not interested.

"Submit. All is One in Darkseid. Anti-Life Justifies my Hate."

[IndigoErth]

Very true. Definitely not a great way to make a first impression, those 2014 costume masks were pretty bad. :tlol: (I own a 2016 Leo one sold by Spirit Halloween shop that was comparatively a vast improvement in likeness.)


Yeah, the love of these guys just prevents me from letting go of all hope that someday someone will do them justice once more... Hope in vain as it may be at this particular period of time.

[Leo656]

I love 'em enough to NOT wanna see people keep flogging the corpse into a mushy puddle for the sake of nostalgia and 'Member Berries, I'll tell ya that for free.

As Master Splinter might say, "There is great wisdom in knowing when to leave some things in the past."

[IndigoErth]

Keeping vague hope and wanting just anything with TMNT stamped on it be not the same thing.

[Leo656]

"Hope" is like "Potential": A silly, made-up word people use to describe things that haven't happened yet, and may never happen at all. Ultimately empty, with no actual basis in reality. Much in common with "Thoughts And Prayers", and ultimately, about as useful.

There is only "What Is", and across the street from that, "What We Would Like It To Be." But sadly, those roads rarely, if ever, converge. That's Life.

And there's today's Moment Of Zen! :tgrin:
---------

I do understand to a point why some people cling to hope, but I personally have never been a believer in it, just in general. I'm a huge, huge fan of Reality, warts and all, as ugly and cold as it can be. But you can't escape it, it's always there. That's why every cynic tells the same joke: "I'm not a Cynic, I'm a Realist". Although it's less a "joke" and more a statement of objective fact.

I'm just a big, big believer in accepting What Is. It seems like slow torture to exist any differently, frankly. All the constant letdowns and disappointment that come with "optimism". "It'll be better next time". And then it's usually not. Seems depressing and soul-crushing. I find it much easier to simply expect the worst, be right most of the time, and once in a great while be pleasantly surprised. :trazz: Seems healthier just in general.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I do understand to a point why some people cling to hope, but I personally have never been a believer in it, just in general. I'm a huge, huge fan of Reality, warts and all, as ugly and cold as it can be. But you can't escape it, it's always there. That's why every cynic tells the same joke: "I'm not a Cynic, I'm a Realist". Although it's less a "joke" and more a statement of objective fact.

I'm just a big, big believer in accepting What Is. It seems like slow torture to exist any differently, frankly. All the constant letdowns and disappointment that come with "optimism". "It'll be better next time". And then it's usually not. Seems depressing and soul-crushing. I find it much easier to simply expect the worst, be right most of the time, and once in a great while be pleasantly surprised. :trazz: Seems healthier just in general.

100% agreement with this.

[Leo656]

Do people constantly accuse you of being miserable when you're not? I get that a lot. :lol:

I'm generally in a pretty great mood; I just have a life with a lot less disappointment than the average bear on account of I generally keep my expectations low. But for some reason people think that makes you miserable.

It doesn't, it's rather the opposite: protecting oneself from disappointment by way of applying a rudimentary understanding of statistics. That's not "misery", it's Math. You can be a cynic and still be generally upbeat; it just means you can smell bullsh*t from a mile away and don't fall for much.

I'unno, just curious if people come at you the way they sometimes come at me. I generally have a good time, and enjoy most things in life, but those other folks sure whine a lot about various things not living up to expectations, whereas I generally just go "Eh". I can only tell 'em to lower those expectations so many times, y'know? "I just thought it would be better." "Well who the hell gave you that idea, you silly goose?" :trazz:

You and me should totally hit up a Hooters one day. The music will be too loud and the wings barely above-average. And y'know... that's Okay. :tgrin:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Do people constantly accuse you of being miserable when you're not? I get that a lot. :lol:

I'm generally in a pretty great mood; I just have a life with a lot less disappointment than the average bear on account of I generally keep my expectations low. But for some reason people think that makes you miserable.

It doesn't, it's rather the opposite: protecting oneself from disappointment by way of applying a rudimentary understanding of statistics. That's not "misery", it's Math. You can be a cynic and still be generally upbeat; it just means you can smell bullsh*t from a mile away and don't fall for much.

I'unno, just curious if people come at you the way they sometimes come at me. I generally have a good time, and enjoy most things in life, but those other folks sure whine a lot about various things not living up to expectations, whereas I generally just go "Eh". I can only tell 'em to lower those expectations so many times, y'know? "I just thought it would be better." "Well who the hell gave you that idea, you silly goose?" :trazz:

You and me should totally hit up a Hooters one day. The music will be too loud and the wings barely above-average. And y'know... that's Okay. :tgrin:

I'm constantly described as the most cheerful pessimist people know. Friends, family, coworkers.... they just don't know how to make those two things coexist: I always firmly believe the worst will happen, yet I'm in a pretty good mood and fun to be around.

Two kinds of people: optimists and realists.

If we were able to hang out, that'd be fvcking awesome. But there's a lotta miles between Jersey and Texas. Do they have rum at Hooters? I still haven't found a beer to my taste.

[Leo656]

I'm not sure. The only one I've actually been to is in Delaware, further complicating matters. While we're over there we should nab Indigo and drive her nuts! She can chaperone AND designated-drive! We'll make a day of it! :tgrin:

Anyways, good for you man. We sure do have a lot in common.

[AquaParade]

I understand the complete lack of optimism. I don’t think a good film is outside the realm of possibility at all though. Crazier things happen all the time.

I certainly don’t count on it and only get invested to the point of being fascinated with whatever developments come about. I don’t feel like my hopes are up or my expectations are in danger. It’s just like “yeah, chances are it won’t be good, but let’s follow the developments and see if we get lucky.”

[Andrew NDB]

People ask me, "Are you happy?" My response is always, "I'm not unhappy." Actively happy? Moments here and there at varying lengths, like most people, I think. I'm well adjusted, I guess, and playing a victim or sniffing around for sympathy has never been my bag. Never.

And yes of course, this latest... "film" (https://farm1.static.flickr.com/52/131023758_da8c9ca086_b.jpg)... is just more corporate product. You know, they assign it a date that it can't waver from and build up the production office before even... looking for a director who might actually have a vision.

They didn't care the last two times, this won't be magic #3. I admit, though, I'm morbidly curious what lessons will be "learned" from after the last one. I still suspect the wrong ones.

And with Turtles, what you call "optimism" I call something not too far removed from "Battered Wife Syndrome." "He'll get better one day, you'll see! One day he'll stop!" But he doesn't, he just keeps on a beatin'.

[Leo656]

Well, I mean in theory, someone COULD make a good TMNT movie.

Just not Viacom. Definitely not Platinum Dunes. Probably not most major studios, honestly. I wouldn't be all optimistic if WB or Disney had the reigns, either. I don't think a major studio can ever do a TMNT movie that's anything but a toy commercial.

"Hollywood" (in quotes because I'm referring to it as an entity) simply cannot resist the urge to turn TMNT into a hybrid of a super-hero story and a children's cartoon. And that's not how it was conceived. For however many times as it's been presented as such, that's still not what it is SUPPOSED to be. That's a big part of the problem. And good luck trying to convince the billionaires that they're "wrong". They know better than you, don't forget; that's why they're billionaires and we're just dumb yokels.

You can use a brick to pound in a nail and it'll mostly go "okay". That doesn't change the fact that you're still retrofitting something into something it completely was never designed to be, and the results are not going to be great. It's unavoidable.

A good TMNT movie would almost certainly have to be another independent film, and that's not happening. That's the only way anyone would ever look at TMNT as a way to tell a story, rather than primarily a way to sell plastic. Hollywood's priorities are all wrong, and that's the simple reason why they can't make a good TMNT movie. They don't have any intentions beyond selling merch.

A very strong case could be made for first TMNT movie being the only truly good one. And oddly enough, aside from a few comics, posters, and a novella, there was virtually no merch to even push for it, compared to every single TMNT movie that came after. Kinda funny how that works, ain't it? The only good movie in the series was made by people who treated the story as the primary objective, and pushing product was way in the background. They didn't even make any toys for the first movie. It's bananas. But it explains why it's such a tight film compared to every single one after; they weren't distracted by ulterior motives the first time. Since then, it's all Toys First and if they tell a story that's even coherent, that's just a fun bonus.

You simply cannot grow sweet and nourishing fruit in poisoned soil.

Andrew gets it. Sharp cat.

[IndigoErth]

I at least look forward to the nonsense and debates for this far more than I do the political crap we'll soon be enduring for far too long, so there's that..? lol


While we're over there we should nab Indigo and drive her nuts!
Only if I can duct tape you together and leave you on the lawn of my choice. Being used for my designated driver nature deserves at least that much.

expect the worst, be right most of the time, and once in a great while be pleasantly surprised.
Exactly (pretty much in the same wording) a so-called "philosophy" my pessimistic, depressive, critical mother has always subscribed to, I grew up hearing, and rejected long ago. Reality may be cold and cruel at times, but looking at her, it's just inviting misery to be focused like that all the time and I'm done with being voluntarily miserable outside of the moments that actually cause it.


And oddly enough, aside from a few comics, posters, and a novella, there was virtually no merch to even push for it, compared to every single TMNT movie that came after. Kinda funny how that works, ain't it?
I assume part of that may have been due to the following films having the profits to put toward it, while the first didn't have the money yet.

Though it's odd that Playmates didn't bother, but I don't think they were all that old of a company yet themselves, so maybe it was to much risk for some reason.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, I mean in theory, someone COULD make a good TMNT movie.

Just not Viacom. Definitely not Platinum Dunes. Probably not most major studios, honestly. I wouldn't be all optimistic if WB or Disney had the reigns, either. I don't think a major studio can ever do a TMNT movie that's anything but a toy commercial.

"Hollywood" (in quotes because I'm referring to it as an entity) simply cannot resist the urge to turn TMNT into a hybrid of a super-hero story and a children's cartoon. And that's not how it was conceived. For however many times as it's been presented as such, that's still not what it is SUPPOSED to be. That's a big part of the problem. And good luck trying to convince the billionaires that they're "wrong". They know better than you, don't forget; that's why they're billionaires and we're just dumb yokels.

You can use a brick to pound in a nail and it'll mostly go "okay". That doesn't change the fact that you're still retrofitting something into something it completely was never designed to be, and the results are not going to be great. It's unavoidable.

A good TMNT movie would almost certainly have to be another independent film, and that's not happening. That's the only way anyone would ever look at TMNT as a way to tell a story, rather than primarily a way to sell plastic. Hollywood's priorities are all wrong, and that's the simple reason why they can't make a good TMNT movie. They don't have any intentions beyond selling merch.

A very strong case could be made for first TMNT movie being the only truly good one. And oddly enough, aside from a few comics, posters, and a novella, there was virtually no merch to even push for it, compared to every single TMNT movie that came after. Kinda funny how that works, ain't it? The only good movie in the series was made by people who treated the story as the primary objective, and pushing product was way in the background. They didn't even make any toys for the first movie. It's bananas. But it explains why it's such a tight film compared to every single one after; they weren't distracted by ulterior motives the first time. Since then, it's all Toys First and if they tell a story that's even coherent, that's just a fun bonus.

Don't get me started about the toy fandangling.

Really, yeah, the only way there's a chance at seeing a good TMNT movie again (let's not even talk about a great TMNT movie, which would be for the first time ever) is if TMNT's stock value to Nick declines to near the redline. Like their efforts to do this or that movie, recreate a successful cartoon, move toys, etc., are met with failure after failure, at least in terms of their expected numbers. When things reach a point when they know that investing 135 million dollars into the production budget of a TMNT thing is a bad investment.

At that point... maybe, maybe they would consider doing a "real" TMNT movie (or more specifically... allowing one) to be made by people other than Michael Bay by studios willing to pony up, say, an 80 million dollar budget. Even 70.

You simply cannot grow sweet and nourishing fruit in poisoned soil.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Xb7fEmNeuWHYY/giphy.gif

I at least look forward to the nonsense and debates for this far more than I do the political crap we'll soon be enduring for far too long, so there's that..? lol

Me, I just can't wait to meet the new PLANTS. And the alumni.

[Leo656]

I at least look forward to the nonsense and debates for this far more than I do the political crap we'll soon be enduring for far too long, so there's that..? lol



Only if I can duct tape you together and leave you on the lawn of my choice. Being used for my designated driver nature deserves at least that much.


Exactly (pretty much in the same wording) a so-called "philosophy" my pessimistic, depressive, critical mother has always subscribed to, I grew up hearing, and rejected long ago. Reality may be cold and cruel at times, but looking at her, it's just inviting misery to be focused like that all the time and I'm done with being voluntarily miserable outside of the moments that actually cause it.


Actually sounds more like she has more in common with my mother-in-law. That's got less to do with "cynicism" and more to do with being an all-around crab. Which is a very different thing.

Not having met them I can't say for certain, but I know myself pretty well, and based on various conversations I'd wager a guess that for all our collective cynicism, Andrew, CKD and myself probably laugh more than anyone you know. :) At some point, it's just well beyond "Fool me once, etc." and you simply stop having patience for nonsense and/or lies. "I'll believe it when I see it" becomes the rule. Doesn't have anything to do with being Happy or Sad. It's literally a way to deflect from disappointment, nothing more.
--------------------

And you should be honored to be volunteered for Designated Driver Status. That's a sign of ultimate trust! That bridge is a goddamn death trap, you think I'd get in a car with just anyone? Madness!

Besides, I need a female voice in the room to let me know when my flirting with the waitresses goes from "good-natured" to "illegal". Because I genuinely don't know. I grew up in an era where a firm slap on the rump meant "Great job!" and I'm having a very hard time adjusting to the new reality. I kind of don't think I should have to, but all the same, it wouldn't hurt to have a "trusted advisor" such as yourself along as an angel on my shoulder, nah'mean?

Besides, the boneless wings at Hooters are generally not too bad. It'll be fun. I'm willing to wager you've never had a chick named "Tanqueray" bring you your food. Gotta be open to new experiences, pal! :tgrin:

[IndigoErth]

lol Is that you, "Uncle Joe"?

*waits 30 seconds before getting onto bride to announce that she's never driven it before*

Me, I just can't wait to meet the new PLANTS. And the alumni.
I trust you have a wealth of plant pics waiting at the ready?

[Andrew NDB]

I trust you have a wealth of plant pics waiting at the ready?

Have faith that I will find them accordingly.

[Leo656]

https://www.straitstimes.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_pictrure_780x520_/public/articles/2018/06/22/bp_marijuana_220618_60.jpg?itok=XBQ4aHxt&timestamp=1529650896

'Tis the Season, and all that. :tcool::tcool::tcool:

[Andrew NDB]

Gross. But hey, let's plan this Hooter's trip! All 3 of us. 4 if Indigo wants to come!

[AquaParade]

A lot of good points being made, but here are some of mine...

Good comicbook films come out all the time now, with the intention to sell toys. Star Wars and MCU films are all about selling toys, and still find a way to please many fans. It’s a tricky balance, but also a somewhat necessary evil most of the time, and we have seen it done well. We don’t need to expect tmnt to eschew the entire blockbuster formula in order to be good. Sure, it’d be nice, but its not necessary.

While reminding everyone that I wouldn’t bet $5 on it being good, there’s still a chance. A roll of the dice. I think the cynicism is maybe taken to an extreme level here, sometimes. Again, I have no mental investment of it being great, but if I was 100%, on my life, sure that the film would not be good, then I wouldn’t even follow development, likely. I guess I enjoy rooting for the smallest, weakest racehorse, as long as it still has four legs.

To each their own, of course. Although some people here would never be pleased unless there is lots of blood and guts on the floor, so we all have different ideas of what a good tmnt film needs. I’d take the blood and guts but it’s not what makes the franchise special. So when we use nebulous terms like “good”, we might not even be having the same discussion.

[Leo656]

Gross.

What a silly thing to say. :lol:

[AquaParade]

What a silly thing to say. :lol:

I have to agree.

[Leo656]

People shouldn't blaspheme on this most holy of days. :trazz:

[IndigoErth]

Guess that make me both atheist and anarcoticist on this duel "holy" weekend.

[turtle1237]

Yep! And a lot of folks were like, "Nahhhh, it can't look THAT bad"... and then it was even worse.

Viacom doesn't "get it" and never will. They wanna shoot this year, with not even a whisper about a script or a cast. Everyone in Hollywood is a blabbermouth; we'd have heard SOMEthing if there was anything going on. If they do it at all, it's gonna be a slapdash rush-job with the bare minimum of effort. It's very possible that it could turn out even worse than the last two, hard as it is to believe. For one thing, we know for a fact they're not gonna spend anywhere near as much money. For a CGI-heavy action flick, that's bad.

It baffles me why anyone chooses to be hopeful about the future of TMNT films. The game is f*cking OVER, folks. It's not even me being cynical, it's simple analysis of the basic bare facts that exist. Hoping for anything less than total schlock from a live-action TMNT film ever again is an exercise in frustration. It's painful to watch. "But maybe....!" No. Stop that. They CAN'T make a good TMNT movie. They don't know how, and they're not interested.

"Submit. All is One in Darkseid. Anti-Life Justifies my Hate."

I did enjoy the 2nd film better lol. Yes there both trash, but the 2nd film did some what improve over the first film. Maybe the 3rd film will be on TMNT 3 level at this rate.

[Leo656]

Guess that make me both atheist and anarcoticist on this duel "holy" weekend.

I'll do my best to celebrate for both of us, child. :trazz:

[IndigoErth]

You do that. In return I'll eat your share of Easter Candy. Deal?

[Leo656]

.......I'm not sure you grasp how the whole "The Munchies" thing works, lass... :lol: Kinda gonna need that candy. :trazz:

You can have the Peeps. Real baby chicks have much more protein anyways.

[Coola Yagami]

To each their own, of course. Although some people here would never be pleased unless there is lots of blood and guts on the floor, so we all have different ideas of what a good tmnt film needs. I’d take the blood and guts but it’s not what makes the franchise special.

I've never seen a comic with the Turtles spilling someone's guts all over the floor. Sure they have blood. But that's every comic. Literally every comic that has fighting in it. The Saturday Morning Cartoon clean that up and make the characters cute and marketable, but Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man and the Turtles and whoever else have always had blood and things like cuts, bruises and black eyes in the comics for years. Things cartoons usually leave out.

I mean the Mirage TMNT were never bloodthirsty killing machines, but when they fought, they fought like their life was at stake, which would at times include using lethal force. The overall tone of the book was what made it more 'adult' in nature, as the Turtles dealt with being mutant outcasts in the world and having that matter not be played for laughs. And the Turtles not being obsessed with pizza and catchphrases. And Shredder, who for the most part, was running an criminal operation and not having zany plans to rule the world or whatever, and then be obsessed with revenge after his first death.

[IndigoErth]

.......I'm not sure you grasp how the whole "The Munchies" thing works, lass... :lol: Kinda gonna need that candy. :trazz:

You can have the Peeps.
Aw, come on, the Peeps aren't even a same day thing, they need to get chewy first. lol

Real baby chicks have much more protein anyways.
o.O Well, that definitely gives new meaning to popcorn chicken.

[Leo656]

You can have between one (1) and three (3) Cadbury Eggs as well.

......You're alright, You. :tlol:

[IndigoErth]

Thank you for the offer, but no Reese's? This is an outrage.

*grabs all Reese's Eggs*

[Leo656]

:teek: You want me to share REESE'S? We're not even going out! :lol:

Jeebus, how 'bout the fillings outta my f*ckin' teeth?! Since you're askin' so nicely and I'm just giving sh*t away, apparently! :tgrumble:

Mini Reese's Cups. That's the best I can do. Full-sized ones are going to become equitable to currency once everyone finds out that there's no gold left in the Reserve. But I can maaaaybe spare a few of the minis. And if I get any Butterfingers, by all means help yourself.

Sheeeeeiiiit. Just plain going up to people demanding Reese's. I'll give you this, you got quite a set on you, m'dear. People get stabbed for stuff like that down in Newark. :lol:

....Although to be fair, it's Newark, and people down there generally get stabbed for... y'know... anything. :trazz: Point still stands, you've got some brass ones.

I can't acquiesce to your demands, but I like the cut'a yer gib.

[IndigoErth]

:lol::tlol: Halloween must be dangerous times there then!

[Leo656]

I wouldn't know, I generally stay the hell outta Newark if I can help it. :lol:

[Prowler]

I wouldn't know, I generally stay the hell outta Newark if I can help it. :lol:

Hmm I've heard Newark has a lot of people of Portuguese ancestry...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Gross. But hey, let's plan this Hooter's trip! All 3 of us. 4 if Indigo wants to come!

I call shotgun!

Not having met them I can't say for certain, but I know myself pretty well, and based on various conversations I'd wager a guess that for all our collective cynicism, Andrew, CKD and myself probably laugh more than anyone you know. :) At some point, it's just well beyond "Fool me once, etc." and you simply stop having patience for nonsense and/or lies. "I'll believe it when I see it" becomes the rule. Doesn't have anything to do with being Happy or Sad. It's literally a way to deflect from disappointment, nothing more.

Besides, the boneless wings at Hooters are generally not too bad. It'll be fun. I'm willing to wager you've never had a chick named "Tanqueray" bring you your food. Gotta be open to new experiences, pal! :tgrin:

I'm like Uncle Albert in Mary Poppins, fvcking love to laugh. I'm just not high on the ceiling with Dick Van Dyke.

How the fvck do you even pronounce Tanqueray? Leo, that has to be a real name you've encountered, because there's no way anyone could make that $hit up.

And I'm just glad to be lumped in with the company of Andrew and Leo. That's like getting to be Larry in the 3 Stooges. Yeah, nobody remembers you compared to Moe and Curly (or Moe and Shemp), but hell, you get fewer beatings. :twink:

[Leo656]

That would be pronounced "Tank-Er-Ay", like the liquor.

She usually works while Cristal (Chris-TALL) is on a break. :trazz:

Boneless wings taste better when served by a bubbly broad in white high-top sneakers and orange booty shorts who named themselves after alcohol. Scientific fact.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

So we can almost guarantee this movie won't be good.

Anyone want to have a guess how bad it'll be?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

So we can almost guarantee this movie won't be good.

Anyone want to have a guess how bad it'll be?

Bad enough to start a shared cinematic universe with the Sonic movie :tlol:

[Wildcat]

It has to be better than the last 2. Being a separate thing is a good sign even though we know nothing yet.

For the record I do not actually hate or despise them. There’s things I liked that they did but overall they just came off very average or below average to me.

I saw a video speculating if the new one could be set in the same universe as the 90s movies (I guess TMNT also). That’d be interesting. Especially if they aged the turtles.

[Andrew NDB]

That would be pronounced "Tank-Er-Ay", like the liquor.

I always pronounce it "Tang-Ger-Ray." But it's proper pronunciation is "nasty sh**."

And no, the new movie doesn't have to be better than the last two. I suspect they will have learned absolutely the wrong lessons from those, though I'd happily be wrong on that. There's no reason to think things will be any different this go around.

[sdp]

I'm guessing this project is already in development hell.

[AquaParade]

Here's my current sliver of optimism:

This project spends a few more years in development hell, Marvel releases Shang-Chi film to phenomenal success, PD exec's see martial artist swinging nunchucks around on screen, try and copy approach, which is slightly more sophisticated and true to the roots, than anything else they had in mind.

[sdp]

Yes, I think I mentioned it elsewhere, if we're getting a new movie I'd rather wait a while and get a totally new team work on it with new ideas. If it's the same PD people who made the first 2 I'd just rather have a soft-reboot where it's the same thing but fixing some of the problems.

I just don't want PDs to mess up an entirely different take on the franchise and ruin the chances of other future movies. Better they continue to mess up the ideas they created.

[Andrew NDB]

Hopefully the money Paramount was going to spend on the TMNT reboot is going to Sonic's redesign.

[oldmanwinters]

Hopefully the money Paramount was going to spend on the TMNT reboot is going to Sonic's redesign.

If they're gonna do that, then it's gotta go fast.

[Diorm]

Hopefully the money Paramount was going to spend on the TMNT reboot is going to Sonic's redesign.

Hopefully it's not just the redesign.

[Krutch]

if we're getting a new movie I'd rather wait a while and get a totally new team work on it with new ideas. If it's the same PD people who made the first 2 I'd just rather have a soft-reboot where it's the same thing but fixing some of the problems.

I agree with you, but you never know, people can surprise you with a second pass on the same material (see Mangold's work on The Wolverine vs Logan, for example).

I don't know. I try to give benefit of the doubt until I see something. Batman vs TMNT seem to go over well, and that had more grit to it than most TMNT fare, so maybe they'll take notes...? ...Maybe?

[IndigoErth]

Taking notes from it would be nice. But PD taking the wrong notes is how likely..? *laugh cry*

Hope it's not too late to do so. (Or I guess never too late to make late alterations for the better?) Though something I'd recently seen about Lindsey Beer that mentioned her involvement with TMNT states that she'd "recently wrote"... past tense.

While I don't assume one little word in a random article means it's done, it has been a while and (now that I checked) just over a year ago, this week in fact, since they announced hiring Andrew Dodge for it, so might it be? Or in a revision stage where producers decide on all the parts they want to eff up?

I hope these two have a better vision and understanding of the material, in a good way. No pressure guys.... Actually, no, given the last two films and the PD minion writers that were given those projects, lots of pressure, I'm sorry. lol

Hope we'll at least hear some tidbit of info about it this summer.

[IndigoErth]

How many grains of salt should I take it with...? I don't even know anymore. I'm guessing this probably came up in the same conversation where the thought of a live action show came up?

https://comicbook.com/movies/2019/07/25/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-new-movie-plans-paramount/

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Co-Creator Kevin Eastman Says Paramount Has Plans for a New Movie

By Charlie Ridgely - July 25, 2019 09:12 am EDT

It didn't take long for the recent reboot of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles films to run out of steam. After a fairly successful debut in 2014, the Michael Bay-produced franchise trailed off significantly in its second outing, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows. It was clear after the critical lashing and lack of box office success that this series was already over, but that doesn't mean that the Turtles are finished on the big screen. In fact, it seems as though there are already conversations being had about how to move the story in a new direction.

Ninja Turtles co-creator Kevin Eastman spoke with ComicBook.com recently about the future of the entire TMNT property, and he teased that there is something special potentially in the works regarding the big screen adaptations.

"Stay tuned," Eastman teased. "It is a work in progress cause, you know, the experiences and so the fans reactions plus and minus to the 2014, 2016 movie, uh, Paramount I believe had taken those to heart and where they'd like to see the next reiteration go to so I think its going to be a next level type of stuff which I'm excited to see."

This could mean multiple things. Eastman could be talking about a continuation of the 2014 and 2016 TMNT films, just with a different creative direction. More likely, the Turtles will be getting a brand new start the next time they venture into theaters.

When the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were initially rebooted in 2014, their first film opened to $65 million domestically in its first weekend, on the way to a $191 million haul in North America and $493 million worldwide. With a budget of $125 million that's not a horrible performance. However, the sequel suffered tremendously. Even with a bigger budget, 2016's Out of the Shadows managed just $245 million globally, right around half the total of its predecessor.

Changes clearly needed to be made if the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles wanted to find on the big screen in the future, and it looks as though Eastman and Paramount are looking to do just that.

Funny that it's still being spoke about as if we haven't already known for more than a year that something is being planned. :tconfuse:

[AquaParade]

I'm honestly really excited to hear news about it. Didn't care for the last two PD films at all, but hope springs eternal. There's always a chance it could be good.
My expectations are in check, so there's not much room for disappointment.

[TurtleTitan97]

There's always a chance it could be good.



How??? The fact they're bring back most of the same people involved with the first two films shows they probably didn't learn anything. If anything it'll likely be just the same quality wise.

Also it's always best to take anything Eastman says with a massive dose of salt. This was the same guy saying we'd get fight scenes similar to The Raid.

[AquaParade]

How??? The fact they're bring back most of the same people involved with the first two films shows they probably didn't learn anything. If anything it'll likely be just the same quality wise.

Also it's always best to take anything Eastman says with a massive dose of salt. This was the same guy saying we'd get fight scenes similar to The Raid.

First off, you and Galactus both make great points about Kevin Eastman. He's not a very reliable source in that way.

Secondly, my belief is based on past history in Hollywood.

The same studio that put out the unspeakable X-Men Origins: Wolverine also released the inventive Logan and Deadpool films.

The same studio that created the disaster, Spider-Man 3, also released the renowned Spider-Man 2.

The same studio that released The Dark Knight released Justice League.

We've seen the same studios, and even directors, create something both terrible and loveable within the span of a few years, time and time again. It's also worth mentioning that Michael Bay, Andrew Form, and Brad fuller, the men producing these films, also produced "A Quiet Place" - one of the best reviewed films of last year.

"The same team behind The horrible TMNT films is also responsible for "A Quiet Place"?!"
Yes. It just goes to show you. (For the record, I'm not a humongous fan of A Quiet Place, but I don't think I need to argue that it's, by far, a higher quality film than the PD TMNT films, right?)

Sure it could suck, but I think it's overly cynical to assume that is the only possible outcome, based on what I've listed above.

[Xav]

How many grains of salt should I take it with...? I don't even know anymore. I'm guessing this probably came up in the same conversation where the thought of a live action show came up?



Funny that it's still being spoke about as if we haven't already known for more than a year that something is being planned. :tconfuse:What the heck does Eastman mean by "next level type of stuff"?

[AquaParade]

What the heck does Eastman mean by "next level type of stuff"?

It's a good question, but all I can really take from his statement is that he was impressed by what he saw.

I mean, in a sense, the Platinum Dunes films were "next level" for the TMNT. The execution was botched, but there is no denying that we had never seen the TMNT imagined in such a way, graphically speaking. I remember Kevin saying something similar back before those films came out, and I think he was right, even though, again, the movies were poor.

Now that we've already seen the turtles brought to life as expensive CGI creations, it's hard to imagine what he'd refer to as being "next level". If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say maybe they're trying to build out an expanded universe (hope not), or going the Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse animation route. The animation idea is one I could especially see being touted as "next level", not to mention, in an interview earlier this year, Kevin said he'd like to see the next film be an edgier, animated film. Again, we know Kevin isn't a great source when it comes to whether or not fans are going to enjoy an upcoming TMNT project, but it's very possible he knows a thing or two and is slipping hints out there to gauge the reaction.

[IndigoErth]

Hm... suits and CGI combined? Or, knowing PD, maybe just bigger spectacle. Hmm.

Although, after those two films, heck, better quality writing and story concept would itself be next level. That I could definitely go for.

The bothers themselves were pretty good in OotS, imo, and I like that film for them, so I hope anything new will likewise give that aspect (their personalities and interactions with each other) the focus they deserve...but the allover story of OotS is so poor and such wasted potential. Like it ended up half-assed written in a rush to get a script so they could start filming.

Whatever it ends up being, I hope it is not fully animated. Would be a bit disappointed, to be honest. While I love it in animation in tv series or specials like that TMNT/Batman movie, I 100% prefer them live action and feeling real on the big screen as that's the only place we're bound to ever actually get that; doubtful Netflix daydreams aside. (The PD boys may not be the prettiest Turtles, not to mention absurdly large and bullet proof, but they did at least manage to make them believable enough to accept that they're existing in the real world on screen. Minus the bulletproof part.)

[Andrew NDB]

What the heck does Eastman mean by "next level type of stuff"?

What he always means when he says stuff like that. Meaningless.

[AquaParade]

Hm... suits and CGI combined? Or, knowing PD, maybe just bigger spectacle. Hmm.

Although, after those two films, heck, better quality writing and story concept would itself be next level. That I could definitely go for.

The bothers themselves were pretty good in OotS, imo, and I like that film for them, so I hope anything new will likewise give that aspect (their personalities and interactions with each other) the focus they deserve...but the allover story of OotS is so poor and such wasted potential. Like it ended up half-assed written in a rush to get a script so they could start filming.

Whatever it ends up being, I hope it is not fully animated. Would be a bit disappointed, to be honest. While I love it in animation in tv series or specials like that TMNT/Batman movie, I 100% prefer them live action and feeling real on the big screen as that's the only place we're bound to ever actually get that; doubtful Netflix daydreams aside. (The PD boys may not be the prettiest Turtles, not to mention absurdly large and bullet proof, but they did at least manage to make them believable enough to accept that they're existing in the real world on screen. Minus the bulletproof part.)

I know what you mean. Animation is a great medium, but it doesn't at all scratch the itch of live action.

I don't know if it was ever brought up, but Kevin said that during the production of the PD films, they did have talks with Henson, but it didn't work out.

[Vicky82]

I guess this movie is going to be delayed as there hasn't been any news. They said back in January, that there going to start filming at the end of the year. It's now mid October and there hasn't been any news and rumours on director, casting ect.

[AquaParade]

I guess this movie is going to be delayed as there hasn't been any news. They said back in January, that there going to start filming at the end of the year. It's now mid October and there hasn't been any news and rumours on director, casting ect.

Hopefully the Joker film made them realize there is an adult fanbase for these movies and they are currently begging George Miller to make an action epic based on TMNT's Return to New York.

...what?

[Autbot_Benz]

I guess this movie is going to be delayed as there hasn't been any news. They said back in January, that there going to start filming at the end of the year. It's now mid October and there hasn't been any news and rumours on director, casting ect.

Just cancel it. if its gonna be more Platinum Dunes garbage don't bother

[Warhorse]

Hopefully the Joker film made them realize there is an adult fanbase for these movies and they are currently begging George Miller to make an action epic based on TMNT's Return to New York.

...what?

And then we also have movies like The Watchmen and Kick Ass, which are R rated movies that didn't do so well at the box office. Now, Kick Ass did good on video, and it spurred a sequel that too was a failure.

But, it would be nice to come out with a mature TMNT movie, and be like John Wick or Bourne Identity, where it's got good action and a plot that doesn't insult the viewer, and that it builds it's momentum from with the second and third film. I also like the idea of maybe starting small, with Hun and then save Shredder for the third film, or have him being built up over the course of the other two films like Marvel have done with Thanos.

[Andrew NDB]

And then we also have movies like The Watchmen and Kick Ass, which are R rated movies that didn't do so well at the box office. Now, Kick Ass did good on video, and it spurred a sequel that too was a failure.

Yeah, Watchmen lost a little bit of money, looks like. Kickass 1 made money, for sure. About twice it's money back, after considering costs. Kickass 2 looks like it broke about even... not a failure, but also not profitable enough to go back into those waters.

[IndigoErth]

Not TMNT related, but...

Megan Fox looks ready for the front line as she transforms into blonde war photojournalist in official stills for latest film

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7907693/Megan-Fox-looks-ready-line-transforms-blonde-war-photojournalist.html

Are you kidding me right now? Who here can't immediately see it? *insert Grumpy Cat face*

Add some strawberry tone to that hair and oh look...it actually could have worked okay. Frigging Platinum Dunes just didn't bother trying.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/01/20/12/23632186-7907693-image-m-31_1579521753373.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not TMNT related, but...



Are you kidding me right now? Who here can't immediately see it? *insert Grumpy Cat face*

Add some strawberry tone to that hair and oh look...it actually could have worked okay. Frigging Platinum Dunes just didn't bother trying.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/01/20/12/23632186-7907693-image-m-31_1579521753373.jpg

Wow, not bad. That really does look like OT April. What film is that?

[IndigoErth]

"The Battle Of Jangsari" I think?

[Andrew NDB]

Looks fine to me.

[sdp]

I want Megan Fox back as April.

[neatoman]

I want Megan Fox back as April.

PfriI_DDifE

[IndigoErth]

Only if we can get the film makers behind that war film who were capable of making her look like OT April without even trying to.

Though it still wouldn't help her line delivery.

[Sumac]

How the heck she looks like OT April in the movie which has nothing to do with TMNT, while in TMNT movie she looks nothing alike her?
My head hurts.

[Nelson]

Quick Photoshop.

Curse you, Michael Bay.

https://i.imgur.com/npSJ8vJ.jpg

[Galactus]

Is it just me that doesn't really care what April's hair looks like? Whether it's red or not, what her race/ethnicity is and especially if she wears yellow. Heck I'd probably prefer they avoided any prominent yellow in her wardrobe completely.

[IndigoErth]

Quick Photoshop.

Curse you, Michael Bay.

https://i.imgur.com/npSJ8vJ.jpg
It's just dumbfounding how much this works for that version of April.

Too bad it's a foreign-made war film and probably not one likely to have figures. Just think how well that would be a good replacement for the PD figure if you wanted one that actually looked like a recognizable April.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Is it just me that doesn't really care what April's hair looks like? Whether it's red or not, what her race/ethnicity is and especially if she wears yellow. Heck I'd probably prefer they avoided any prominent yellow in her wardrobe completely.

No, I agree with this. It may have been a missed opportunity but the less each version takes cues from the OT, the better.

[IndigoErth]

It is however funny, at least to me, that the actress with the least April-like portrayal, that I personally could never believe was April while watching those films, ironically looks so much like one of the earliest versions (sans Mirage) in a completely unrelated film. :tconfuse:


I mean, no, they don't have to pull from the OT version for a film. On the other hand though, there is only so far you can go outside of the general basic description of an establish character before you, say, just end up with what looks like the PD Turtles having befriended Megan Fox instead. And probably partly because she was already too recognizable, so not bothering with the aesthetics at all ends up looking like zero effort.

[Andrew NDB]

Heck I'd probably prefer they avoided any prominent yellow in her wardrobe completely.

The yellow thing never ceases to annoy me. They put her in a yellow jumpsuit for a children's cartoon once, now everyone and their mom makes it like her favorite color, that she lives and breathes and makes sure is in any wardrobe she wears.

[oldmanwinters]

Hadn't heard of The Battle Of Jangsari until today, but it does look like an interesting film. Wonder how Megan Fox got tapped for a role in a semi-obscure Korean film?

[AquaParade]

When asked what they were working on next, Form replied: “Jack Ryan Season 2 [on Amazon] just wrapped, the sequel of A Quiet Place, and we’re doing a reboot of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at Paramount…That is looking like production by the end of the year.”

This was around January 2019.

Really makes me wonder what is cooking over there. I'm guessing they've been tinkering with the script quite a bit, and hopefully trying to find the right tone.

They need to just hire someone creative and let them be creative. Give them a relatively small budget and get off their back. Let indie credibilities infect the TMNT once more. Worked for the comic. Worked for the first movie. Worked for Joker and Hollywood loves to copy a formula.

[TigerClaw]

This was around January 2019.

Really makes me wonder what is cooking over there. I'm guessing they've been tinkering with the script quite a bit, and hopefully trying to find the right tone.

They need to just hire someone creative and let them be creative. Give them a relatively small budget and get off their back. Let indie credibilities infect the TMNT once more. Worked for the comic. Worked for the first movie. Worked for Joker and Hollywood loves to copy a formula.
They are also gonna have to recast the Turtles. Don't know if the actors want to put up with what they been through. Since Alan Ritchson who played Raph had a really bad experience making the movies. So its safe to say that Raph will get recast.

[AquaParade]

They are also gonna have to recast the Turtles. Don't know if the actors want to put up with what they been through. Since Alan Ritchson who played Raph had a really bad experience making the movies. So its safe to say that Raph will get recast.

Yeah, I agree 100% and think it’s safe to say nothing but a complete reboot will suffice.

[Andrew NDB]

They are also gonna have to recast the Turtles. Don't know if the actors want to put up with what they been through. Since Alan Ritchson who played Raph had a really bad experience making the movies. So its safe to say that Raph will get recast.

As soon as this became a reboot there was 0 chance they were keeping any of the cast.

[neatoman]

So is anyone feeling this is taking a while? I know the 2014 movie was delayed by two years, but that was mainly because Bay revealed the alien origin which lead to the development of an entirely different script when they got ridiculed for it. I can't help but wonder what happened this time.

I mean what? Did they spend the first year writing a script where April was a half-utro.... Where Karai turned into a sna... Where Leo gave blood to a hum... Where it's a mutated wastela... Where Splinter is killed three tim... Where there's Yokai underg... Where animal ancest... No, that last one was PD's last disaster...

Can anyone figure out something that is not quite as dumb as the alien origin, yet clearly dumber than the misteps of the last decade?

[AquaParade]

Hopefully it is because they are taking the time to get it right. They've learned that with incompetence, they can potentially lose money on this franchise.
They were on a downhill trajectory with the last one.

I'm comforted by the fact that they tossed Kevin Eastman aside last time and failed miserably. It allows a chance for them to heed Kevin's warning that the hardcore fans wont support a poor product.

[IndigoErth]

This was around January 2019.

Really makes me wonder what is cooking over there. I'm guessing they've been tinkering with the script quite a bit, and hopefully trying to find the right tone.

They need to just hire someone creative and let them be creative. Give them a relatively small budget and get off their back. Let indie credibilities infect the TMNT once more. Worked for the comic. Worked for the first movie. Worked for Joker and Hollywood loves to copy a formula.
That would be really nice.

As much as I keep hoping that we'll hear a little something one day soon, at least enough to know it's still on the table, it's for the best, I hope, that they aren't rushing it. Would have been fun to have a 'currently in production' film to be discussing had it started shooting before the end of 2019 as they'd initially estimated, but...


Though I do wonder how long they'll hide it, in fear of opinionated fans after how it went with 2014. lol Unless they've got the good sense this time to try to come up with a quality product they can be confident in putting some info out there a lot sooner than they did with 2014. But gotta tread lightly, I guess, this fandom is like a pool of sharks. :tlol: Or angry alligator snappers to be more accurate.



Can anyone figure out something that is not quite as dumb as the alien origin, yet clearly dumber than the misteps of the last decade?
Uhhhhhhhhh........ hm. No. But lord knows PD could think of it.

[TigerClaw]

They can recast everyone else except for Bebop and Rocksteady. The two actors they had were perfect enough.

They should reboot. But not redo the origin again. Instead Retcon the entire thing so that the stuff that happened before never happened. Look at it as a different TMNT universe.

Take a page of the DCEU playbook and do an Elseworlds type of thing with the next movie. The audiences know well enough there origin. So we don't have to explain it all over again. Just do a new story with the Turtles already established.

Also hire better actors to play the villains. Actually show Shredder fighting. And on top of that. Show Karai doing actual fighting as well.

They should higher whoever the Stunt Team is for the Mortal Kombat Movie Reboot. We needs some actually good martial arts in this movie.

[neatoman]

Uh, yeah, about that... Can we please just accept that Bebop and Rocksteady:

Are not very compelling characters at their core.
Tend to be depicted in a really annoying way.
Are not in any way, shape or form "essential" to TMNT.
Do not need to be in a movie.
If used in a movie at all, ought to be given the role of barely important obstacles, a few fight scenes and next to no focus beyond that.
Could be ignored in favor of far better characters.
In PD's depiction of them were a horrible addition that made the movie even worse than it needed to be.
Were only ever decent in the IDW series and the central joke there is that nobody wants them around.
That even after 33 years, they were basically only ever important in the Fred Wolf cartoon. Archie basically got rid of them ASAP, they're only in about 15% of the IDW series and in the Nick show they didn't appear until after the cracks were too obvious to ignore. In anything else they're basically absent.

[TigerClaw]

I had this vision in my head for a Live Action TMNT Movie set in Mutant Town from the IDW Comics.

[neatoman]

I had this vision in my head for a Live Action TMNT Movie set in Mutant Town from the IDW Comics.

I think it's better to let that concept breathe a little and work out the kinks before we start thinking about adaptation. It's a little too... Off brand?

[Nelson]

As soon as this became a reboot there was 0 chance they were keeping any of the cast.

Problem is that the term "reboot" has been misused so much by everyone from audiences to the entertainment industry itself, that it has lost its meaning.

So until a synopsis with cast list and/or a trailer hits, we can't be sure that the new film won't be a continuation of the previous two, with the difference that the turtles have given up crime fighting to set up a shawarma stand in Ibiza.

[IndigoErth]

with the difference that the turtles have given up crime fighting to set up a shawarma stand in Ibiza.
Literal LOL. Terrible. Now I want this for just a minute. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

Problem is that the term "reboot" has been misused so much by everyone from audiences to the entertainment industry itself, that it has lost its meaning.

So until a synopsis with cast list and/or a trailer hits, we can't be sure that the new film won't be a continuation of the previous two, with the difference that the turtles have given up crime fighting to set up a shawarma stand in Ibiza.

At best it would be a soft reboot... i.e., the first two movies could have happened but they don't refer to them and that's it. But I doubt it. They lost a lot of money with the last one so they'd most likely be keen to cleanse the palate.

[Sumac]

My biggest hope for new movie is that they change Turtles designs.

[AquaParade]

It's gonna be a total reboot y'all. New designs, new actors, new concepts. They know they air-balled hard.

They've literally been pinballing back and forth due to fan feedback since before their first TMNT film.

The alien concept leaked and faced backlash so they General-Schradered it.
Fans found out that a caucasian man was playing Shredder - boom. Schradered.
The First film faced backlash for not being close enough to the source material, from all sides of fandom. Darker tone Schradered in favor of something closer to the original cartoon. Something they thought would please fans.

Now that has failed too. I believe they are highly aware that they need to start from scratch, given the mess they've made. For us, it's just another toss up. Crossing our fingers for snake eyes on a twelve-sided die.

[ranger_scout]

Uh, yeah, about that... Can we please just accept that Bebop and Rocksteady:

Are not very compelling characters at their core.
Tend to be depicted in a really annoying way.
Are not in any way, shape or form "essential" to TMNT.
Do not need to be in a movie.
If used in a movie at all, ought to be given the role of barely important obstacles, a few fight scenes and next to no focus beyond that.
Could be ignored in favor of far better characters.
In PD's depiction of them were a horrible addition that made the movie even worse than it needed to be.
Were only ever decent in the IDW series and the central joke there is that nobody wants them around.
That even after 33 years, they were basically only ever important in the Fred Wolf cartoon. Archie basically got rid of them ASAP, they're only in about 15% of the IDW series and in the Nick show they didn't appear until after the cracks were too obvious to ignore. In anything else they're basically absent.


Other some of gross habits in Out of the Shadows I found them entertaining. Their incarnations in the 2012 TV series were done even better.

[neatoman]

Other some of gross habits in Out of the Shadows I found them entertaining. Their incarnations in the 2012 TV series were done even better.

I will agree that the Nicktoon depiction of them are arguably the second best iteration as of yet, but that still comes with a few little points:

The way they improved on the characters was to essentially create new characters, mostly just having the same names and some superficial details in common with them.
While they are nowhere near as annoying as the Fred Wolf depiction, they still get somewhat obnoxious whenever they're in focus.
The fact that they just became idiots right after they mutated seemed like a forced attempt to make them seem more like the original characters. This is dissapointing because: a) They were perfectly fine with the more moderate intellect. B) If they were willing to deviate from the original characters to begin with, the worst aspect of the original characters was obviously not wirth emulating.
The fact that they came in halfway through the show, when Shredder already had like four or five other henchmen, made it seem like they were added just to have them around. They really weren't needed at that point.


I'll never agree that the PD version was entertaining, I literally got a headache from that.

[IndigoErth]

The PD version had potential, but they were a bit too obnoxious and a little overdone, imo. I'd have rather that Shredder played more of a real role in the film (with Krang) and B&R just stuck by him as his bumbling henchmen that aid him instead of being focused on to an extent as if they were the primary villains even while they still weren't. Krang was the 'big bad,' yet got so little screen time compared to B&R who were essentially just obstacles.

PD focuses way too much on creating movies around a primary action piece they think is exciting... and then losing the potential of the rest of the film. Maybe I've never written a film, but that seems like a crappy way to do it.

[AlZarkovski]

New rumor: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reportedly-dark-faithful-comics/#gallery-4

[Slap-Happy]

New rumor: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reportedly-dark-faithful-comics/#gallery-4
Lol no it won’t. These guys were lying out of their teeth about a live action Netflix show too.

[newfan]

I can't get that to open but if it's just another rumour then I'm not too fussed. Does anyone else feel like this movie may have been dropped? (or at least maybe put on the back burner for now)

[Galactus]

It sounds too good to be true.

Treating this as credible for a second - it's sounds great however I'm not sure that the bad box office for Birds Of Prey should really get them to rethink. In many ways that movie is what a lot of DC fans always wanted. It's only real flaw was that was an all girl movie and they have cooties - that's not really a problem with TMNT.

Not that a comic faithful TMNT even needs to be that level of dark or R-Rated. Very little of the Mirage books you couldn't get away comfortably in a PG-13. As long as it takes it's story, characters and tone fairly seriously we don't need gore or turtles dropping F bombs. Not that I would turn my nose up at that kind of TMNT movie but something with the general tone of The Winter Soldier or Civil War would do nicely.

Not that I believe this anyway. Like I said it's all a bit too good to be true and sadly nothing we haven't heard before. Unfortunately I could Sonic The Hedgehog more of an influence with Paramount which although that's a decent movie it's not really what anyone wants with TMNT.

[Autbot_Benz]

New rumor: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reportedly-dark-faithful-comics/#gallery-4

Never post anything from Wegotthiscovered they are the king of clickbait and lie 99% of the time and make **** up and post it as fact

[AquaParade]

New rumor:

Yeah, this website is 100% full of ****. They may follow along and post a correct rumor occasionally, but they are the least reliable source I've ever come across. I'd even suggest taking that link down, tbh.

But for the sake of discussion: It's nice to imagine we are in a world where "the powers that be" just saw the floor sort of drop under them with "Rise..." and are now thinking it's time to go big or go home. Stop towing the awkward line between gritty and children-oriented that PD originally went for. Just throw older fans a damn bone and see if it can skyrocket like other comic book properties have shown is possible.

Wishful thinking, but it feels good.

[ranger_scout]

Never post anything from Wegotthiscovered they are the king of clickbait and lie 99% of the time and make **** up and post it as fact

I know. They said that Disney was working on live-action versions of Pocahontas and The Great Mouse Detective and those rumors were very soon debunked.

[IndigoErth]

Eh, yeah, not buying it... That's a fair amount of text in an "article" that really says almost nothing.

Sure, a darker reboot someday isn't implausible -- and easy to throw at the wall and see if it sticks one day -- but everything else at that link feels like space filler for the sake of creating an article, including the inclusion of the entirely unrelated actress in a yellow suit.

[Leo656]

Article also calls Birds Of Prey "a faithful adaptation."
https://media.giphy.com/media/dtI7iJluuOTaPwiU5h/giphy.gif

[Egon1982]

Come on, give it to someone else than PD.

[oldmanwinters]

Article also calls Birds Of Prey "a faithful adaptation."
https://media.giphy.com/media/dtI7iJluuOTaPwiU5h/giphy.gif

According to our sources ... the Turtles producers were originally keen to go for an R-rating for the reboot. However, the box office problems of Birds of Prey are apparently reducing their enthusiasm for straying too far from a broad audience, while still going for a faithful adaptation. That being said, they’re still going to be keeping things on the more mature side.

I read that not necessarily in reference to Birds of Prey being a "faithful adaptation," but that the TMNT producers want to be a faithful "mature" adaptation... even if they get skittish on an R-rating (being one of the excuses people cite for the failure of BoP).

[marioroxmysox]

Sorry, I didn't know there was a New TMNT movie in the works, but what's happening right now? Is there a sudden change in direction that I didn't know about?

[Andrew NDB]

Sorry, I didn't know there was a New TMNT movie in the works, but what's happening right now? Is there a sudden change in direction that I didn't know about?

Nothing is happening right now.

[sgtfbomb]

Never post anything from Wegotthiscovered they are the king of clickbait and lie 99% of the time and make **** up and post it as fact

This right here. Don't even bother clicking their links.

[IndigoErth]

Sorry, I didn't know there was a New TMNT movie in the works, but what's happening right now? Is there a sudden change in direction that I didn't know about?
Other than the names of the two writers, no other info is known.

And even if it is still planned to happen, I doubt any films of any kind are filming right now due to that virus.


Though personally I'd love to hear a little something about it. A little leak of info to give us something to talk about, some small hint of direction, esp with most of us bored in lockdown.

[marioroxmysox]

Other than the names of the two writers, no other info is known.

And even if it is still planned to happen, I doubt any films of any kind are filming right now due to that virus.


Though personally I'd love to hear a little something about it. A little leak of info to give us something to talk about, some small hint of direction, esp with most of us bored in lockdown.

Yeah, say what you will about the previous two, I had some enjoyment from it. It's like a mix between the Fred Wolf and IDW continuities, especially since Bebop and Rocksteady finally got their chance on the big screen.

[TigerClaw]

Check out these 3D fan art images of the turtles. These look like the 90s designs. And these designs can work with realistic CGI. They should use these designs as a template when redesigning the turtles for the TMNT reboot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUxm2nwXsAAAr-O?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUsflxhXkAIAFRK?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVBC3OEXkAAP0mG?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVLqzjCVAAEX4Ln?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVGU998U8AAXPQ_?format=jpg&name=small

[frank_one]

Those faces are too much cartoony for my taste.

[TigerClaw]

Those faces are too much cartoony for my taste.
The Sonic movie says otherwise. :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

I respect the work but way too cartoony faces. It looks like the designs from "Injustice 2," with some of the faces/heads from the "Coming out of our shells tour" Turtles.

[Wildcat]

I don’t think they’re too cartoony but they’re basically just the 90 designs. They did a good job but they’re not very different.

[TigerClaw]

Its funny seeing people arguing over something being too cartoony or not cartoony enough. They can't make up there mind. I look at these designs. And it looks fine to me. I don't get how the faces look cartoony because i don't see it.

[Andrew NDB]

You guys don't see it?

https://i.ibb.co/Fm5ybGw/h-WYXHSGxn-OLe-HXM-800x450-no-Pad.jpg

Forget the accessories. Those designs look a LOT like this, and that's not a good thing.

Its funny seeing people arguing over something being too cartoony or not cartoony enough.

Why? We've been doing it here for 20 years.

[TigerClaw]

You guys don't see it?

https://i.ibb.co/Fm5ybGw/h-WYXHSGxn-OLe-HXM-800x450-no-Pad.jpg

Forget the accessories. Those designs look a LOT like this, and that's not a good thing.



Why? We've been doing it here for 20 years.
Having been with the Turtles for all these years. The 1990 designs always stook out as the gold standard on how they should look. So I don't see how these designs look too cartoony.

This is my problem with the fandom these days. Not everyone sees eye to eye when it comes to character designs. One person says. oh its too cartoony. another says. its not cartoony at all. and it just goes back and forth. Nobody can never come to an agreement on what the final designs should look like. Because at the end of the day. There's always somebody who won't like it. We need something that is definitive that everyone can agree on.

The problem is. There is nothing definitive because they keep changing the designs with every reboot.

[Wildcat]

I don’t see Coming out of our Shells at all. The cartoonish part might be the bigger smiles but that’s about it. I see the 90s movie designs.

[Andrew NDB]

I like the veiny look to the muscles it's just... those faces really kill me. If they weren't holding any weapons I'd think they wanted to come and, like, assault me with hugs and songs or something.

[newfan]

I can't see fans all coming together to love one version given the variation, that being said there was a large consensus regarding the 1990 movie and then the PD I guess.

Designs being too cartoony or not for people I guess could also depend on what tone they are visualising for the movie.

[Sumac]

Those designs look perfect for me.

Simple and true to original movie.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The Sonic movie says otherwise. :tlol:

I'm afraid that has no relevance to what you're talking about.

Having been with the Turtles for all these years. The 1990 designs always stook out as the gold standard on how they should look. So I don't see how these designs look too cartoony.

This is my problem with the fandom these days. Not everyone sees eye to eye when it comes to character designs. One person says. oh its too cartoony. another says. its not cartoony at all. and it just goes back and forth. Nobody can never come to an agreement on what the final designs should look like. Because at the end of the day. There's always somebody who won't like it. We need something that is definitive that everyone can agree on.

The problem is. There is nothing definitive because they keep changing the designs with every reboot.

Maybe it's just your visual eye but you can tell the difference between the designs of the turtles between certain films and CG work. In the 1990 film, they had a distinct facial look and height to each of them that sort of helped differentiated them from each other and showed more variety in facial expressions. With each sequel, you can tell that each costume design went for a more Muppet-esque look to them, where the expressions lessened and came closer to mascot costumes you'd see at family friendly places. It shows in the third film. With works like the Coming Out of Our Shells Tour, Next Mutation, and so on, the design of the turtles leaned towards the same direction the third film did where they looked like mascots to appeal to children.

These 3D sculptures are nice looking but I feel that they either lean towards that 'mascot' design look or something more akin to the TMNT movie which was all CG. The latter example is not the kind of design choice, I would use for a live action movie. Maybe they look more.....toyetic? If that's the correct term? But if you take a picture of the toy models of the 1990 film and compared it to the images you're showing us, you can clearly see the difference in the mood and look of the turtles' design.

Personally I would like a movie that utilizes actors in costumes like the 90s films. It gives a more life like feel to it. However, if they wanted to do a live-action CGI hybrid movie, I think designs that are somewhat closer to what the turtles looked like in the first film could work but I also think they can go for something better.

[Sharman]

I'm still undecided about those CG designs.

But, regardless, any design has to make me believe that
a) they are turtles (of the mutant variety)
b) they are ninjas (i.e. capable of being so)
and also, as equally important, c) they are teenagers.

That last one they always tend to overlook quite a bit.

[TigerClaw]

When they get around to making the new TMNT movie. They should treat the motion capture actors better this time around. We all heard about Alan Ritchson's problems during the filming of the last two movies. His head wasn't in the right place. And he only did them because of his kids. So he wasn't 100% committed due to how he was being treated.

I'm afraid that has no relevance to what you're talking about.
Yes it does. Because people complain about the first Sonic design not looking like Sonic and they fixed that. I see a similar situation happening with TMNT if the Producers of this movie aren't careful. So they should listen to the fans and make designs that is appealing.

[IndigoErth]

Pretty decent designs and cute... cute is good. However, I can definitely see where they're wedged in between being "too cartoony" or real enough, kind of right in a gray area.

Obliviously very much like the 1990 designs, though the '90s had the benefit of being suits, so even if they were kinda "cartoony" designs in their own right, they still had the reality and benefit of being flesh and bone foam and animatronic to make them acceptably exist in the real world. While I like these designs I'm not certain that a CGI version of those designs isn't going to look like a cartoon slapped onto a real world backdrop when compared to that... which, personally, is something I REALLY don't want happening. And Sonic looks like that, IMO. No thanks.

It's a good starting place for sure, designs like this and, say, the Injustice ones. But go from there and gently tweak them into being believable for a real world setting.

But for the love of all things mutant ninja, don't make them the size of a small truck or unrecognizable.

edit: I mean if they hadn't went berserk and overdid the PD designs they might have been a better fit for a modern film TMNT that feel like real enough CGI. But we'll probably never know. Leo is a decent real world design in the face, but after that... I dunno what happened with all of them other than the Bay effect (affect?) took over.



edit: While an all CGI movie is not what I want either (stick with live action for the big screen, please), I could see these design working well in the sort of CGI film that aims for more realistic-ish character and environmental designs.

[dragonside]

if they jsut make a movie with the insurance commercial style. i'd be happy.

[Sumac]

I don't know why people so adamant about new TMNT being a live action?
I mean, 99% that the new Turtles will be all CGI, as well, as most of their enemies. I'd take a good CGI movie, rather than another live action attempt with mediocre actors spot-stealing from fearsome foursome.

[The Turtle Terminator]

Check out these 3D fan art images of the turtles. These look like the 90s designs. And these designs can work with realistic CGI. They should use these designs as a template when redesigning the turtles for the TMNT reboot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUxm2nwXsAAAr-O?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUsflxhXkAIAFRK?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVBC3OEXkAAP0mG?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVLqzjCVAAEX4Ln?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVGU998U8AAXPQ_?format=jpg&name=small


That Leonardo face looks as if he stepped straight out of “Turtle Tunes”

[IndigoErth]

I don't know why people so adamant about new TMNT being a live action?
I mean, 99% that the new Turtles will be all CGI, as well, as most of their enemies. I'd take a good CGI movie, rather than another live action attempt with mediocre actors spot-stealing from fearsome foursome.
*shrug* They're called personal preferences?

I'd rather live action on the big screen, esp as that's the only place we're likely to ever get it. I prefer animation (CGI or otherwise) for tv and direct to video.

I could probably be fine with an all CGI film that aims for a rather realistic look (though I'd still be wanting another live action one), but I don't really have much of any interest in cartoon-looking CGI in theater. I'd probably see it, but moving cartoons from tv to theater just isn't that exciting. I prefer them feeling like they live in our world on that screen.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Yes it does. Because people complain about the first Sonic design not looking like Sonic and they fixed that. I see a similar situation happening with TMNT if the Producers of this movie aren't careful. So they should listen to the fans and make designs that is appealing.

You say this, knowing that you originally didn't care how Sonic looked.:tlol:

You're making it sound like one individual equals the entire staff. That one person is who realized that people didn't like the original design and wanted to do the opposite of what we expect from movie studios and appeal to the fans, which is indeed rare. Sonic got very lucky, if anything. You don't know for sure if the same staff that worked on Sonic are going to work on the next possible TMNT movie. Movies may come from the same company but that doesn't mean each movie from said studio will necessarily be treated on equal grounds regardless of what one thinks they should do.

Also, saying that fans cannot come to an agreement on anything is rather unfair. Everyone has their preferences and different opinions on things they like.

[TigerClaw]

You say this, knowing that you originally didn't care how Sonic looked.:tlol:

You're making it sound like one individual equals the entire staff. That one person realized that people didn't like the original design. Sonic got lucky if anything. You don't know for sure if the same staff that worked on Sonic are going to work on the next possible TMNT movie.

More importantly, TMNT and Sonic are two entirely different properties.
Like I said. What happen with Sonic is going to affect the TMNT reboot. This is a property with a huge fanbase too. So they better get the designs right at first.

[IndigoErth]

Well, good luck, it's different companies so no telling if it'll impact the TMNT or not. The Sonic people decided to rework it, while the PD people only reworked what was easy (title and Shredder actor) and got mad at us for design criticism. With PD still involved that's gonna come down to their own willingness to pay attention and not just go with that they themselves like, which I'm not holding my breath on.

[Leo656]

I see what Andrew means. It's kinda subtle, and I'm sure an individual's eyesight (or lack thereof) combined with what they're looking at the pictures on (laptop vs tablet or phone) is a factor, but there's just something a slight bit "off" about the faces, versus the bodies, which are fine.

Like, not terrible or unable to be salvaged, but the heads are definitely more "cartoony" than the bodies are, and would be well-served with a bit of a tweak so as to fit better. If you really can't see it, I assume you wear glasses and/or are looking at them on a smaller screen. Blown-up, it's fairly obvious what Andrew was getting at.

Not "bad", but... kinda... I'unno if "uncanny valley" fits this or not, but, yeah, it's not quite a perfect fit.

[PizzaPower1985]

So, no news yet? We'll just have to wait then. The basic gist of this thread is the PD is doing another film, not connected to the other 2, with a possibly more mature, darker story or possibly just the same flavor and tone that we already had but with different actors and a different story. It's also possible that they wait so long that a new TMNT film won't happen for a good long while, due to Covid-19 or otherwise, but would a studio risk that for licensing reasons? What if their deal runs out?

Either way, as far as art style, most (on this particular thread anyway) want a TMNT that is going to be more mature with a design that is something closer to a hybrid of 87 cartoon TMNT/1990 movie TMNT/Mirage TMNT.

If the story tackles the origin, it better be something NEW and unprecedented while still being faithful enough to what has come before... and don't link the ooze to Saki. Or I won't buy a ticket.

[IndigoErth]

Makin' me click here hoping someone found some hint of info... lol Already looked around earlier hoping some word of it would surface. Nada. Again.

I mean, come on now...it has been nearly two years since we heard they put Andrew Dodge on the task of writing it (along with Lindsey Beer whose name turned up later). Understandable that the virus may halt film productions, but for one still in pre-production, what more do they need to progress on the plan, or at least the plans for the plans, beyond some Zoom meetings? Would be nice to at least know if it's still on the table and where it's at presently.


I'd still rather they just skip the origin and just go into an original story post-Shredder years. Safer for this company to keep its hands off the old material and not try to redo it in some stupid way. Would be harder to criticize an original adventure that's a good story so long as they get the Turtles and the general gist of TMNT right.

Buuuut it's been written already, far as we know, so that mystery is hiding in some computer files out there somewhere.

[PizzaPower1985]

Makin' me click here hoping someone found some hint of info... lol Already looked around earlier hoping some word of it would surface. Nada. Again.

I mean, come on now...it has been nearly two years since we heard they put Andrew Dodge on the task of writing it (along with Lindsey Beer whose name turned up later). Understandable that the virus may halt film productions, but for one still in pre-production, what more do they need to progress on the plan, or at least the plans for the plans, beyond some Zoom meetings? Would be nice to at least know if it's still on the table and where it's at presently.


I'd still rather they just skip the origin and just go into an original story post-Shredder years. Safer for this company to keep its hands off the old material and not try to redo it in some stupid way. Would be harder to criticize an original adventure that's a good story so long as they get the Turtles and the general gist of TMNT right.

Buuuut it's been written already, far as we know, so that mystery is hiding in some computer files out there somewhere.

IF there is indeed an already written draft of a screenplay, dear lord then, why can't we get some kind of update?

Someone should leak the scipt online (it's probably a MAJOR TURKEY anyway) but then, of course, everyone gets so litigious these days, that might cost someone a career.

[AquaParade]

I have to imagine they are stuck at the moment. They know they messed up by pushing forward in a headstrong manner with, frankly, bad material.

They've suffered for it and they can't repeat the same mistake. They know they need to get the concept right before moving forward this time.

But they don't know how. And the scripts they're paying for are awful.

That's my wild guess, anyway. In this scenario, It's a matter of hoping for the right director to join the project and take control.

[PizzaPower1985]

I have to imagine they are stuck at the moment. They know they messed up by pushing forward in a headstrong manner with, frankly, bad material.

They've suffered for it and they can't repeat the same mistake. They know they need to get the concept right before moving forward this time.

But they don't know how. And the scripts they're paying for are awful.

That's my wild guess, anyway. In this scenario, It's a matter of hoping for the right director to join the project and take control.

At this point I think a TMNT film can only be made well if they get a screenwriter who is familiar with Mirage/IDW/2003 cartoon/anything that is more serious in tone.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, this is one of those scenarios where I really do think you need someone who understands the source material. That?s true for many adaptations, but especially so here.

Not that I?m holding my breath, but I have far more hope in a Netflix-style, live-action series of great quality coming to fruition, with “Daredevil” being the obvious comparison, and beacon of light for the studio who would produce the show. That seems to the better route for a mature take on the franchise, at this point. I‘ve sort of stopped hoping for a good TMNT movie, but this could be even better, IMO.

[TigerClaw]

I hope they get another movie going. Paramount already officially announced a sequel to the Sonic Movie. So let's hope they announce another TMNT movie. Whatever the next one is going to be. It will be rebooted with new actors. But I want them to keep Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I hope they get another movie going. Paramount already officially announced a sequel to the Sonic Movie. So let's hope they announce another TMNT movie. Whatever the next one is going to be. It will be rebooted with new actors. But I want them to keep Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang.

I'd rather not see any of those three. We already had a dose of them and I'd rather not revisit more FW elements. There's plenty of material that includes those characters that any fan can go back to enjoy them in.

[TigerClaw]

I'd rather not see any of those three. We already had a dose of them and I'd rather not revisit more FW elements. There's plenty of material that includes those characters that any fan can go back to enjoy them in.
I rather see more FW elements. There are so many we haven't seen done in live action.

[The Deadman]

Give us a Next Mutation version with Venus on the BIG SCREEN. The kids will go wild I tell ya.

[PizzaPower1985]

I think because of what the last movie gave us, what Nick has done with the property since 2K12, we are in DESPERATE NEED to get back to a grounded version of TMNT. We need a movie that forgoes the fanciful stuff and gives us a standard action/superhero film without a lot of the cartoonier elements, something akin to what Kevin and Peter had originally created. Let's save Krang and the sci-fi stuff for sequels guys. Ninjas, action, low key, introspection. Save the epic battles for later. Just to get this thing off the ground again and flying again, keep it simple and give us a great action movie.

[Galactus]

I rather see more FW elements. There are so many we haven't seen done in live action.

If Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady and the Technodrome did not bring asses to seats then what chance will lesser known Fred Wolf elements have to bring people on.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I rather see more FW elements. There are so many we haven't seen done in live action.

There are also characters from other versions that deserve a shot. There's more to TMNT than just the FW version.

[PizzaPower1985]

There are also characters from other versions that deserve a shot. There's more to TMNT than just the FW version.

I agree with this. Who else would be up for an IDW inspired movie?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I rather see more FW elements. There are so many we haven't seen done in live action.

Please no. For the love of everything that is decent and good, no more blatant FW elements.

Have the TMNT in multi-coloured bandanas. That's it. Nothing more than that

[neatoman]

I rather see more FW elements. There are so many we haven't seen done in live action.

No, OK? Some Fred Wolf elements can be tolerated with modification but actively trying to resemble the Fred Wolf cartoon will only hold things back.

[TigerClaw]

No, OK? Some Fred Wolf elements can be tolerated with modification but actively trying to resemble the Fred Wolf cartoon will only hold things back.
What's holding it back is not opening up the world. We need world building. They really need to do there research and read the IDW comics. Which has every single element including FW.

Please no. For the love of everything that is decent and good, no more blatant FW elements.

Have the TMNT in multi-coloured bandanas. That's it. Nothing more than that
Sounds like you hate FW. There are a lot of people here who grew up with FW including me.

[AquaParade]

I agree with this. Who else would be up for an IDW inspired movie?

As far as premise goes, I think a blend of IDW and Mirage is exactly what is needed.

[TigerClaw]

As far as premise goes, I think a blend of IDW and Mirage is exactly what is needed.
Im more towards wanting it to have more of the IDW elements. Since it does impliment every single version of TMNT into the comic. Characters that appeared in every version appear in the comic. There some that haven't yet. But in due time they will eventually appear.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

What's holding it back is not opening up the world. We need world building. They really need to do there research and read the IDW comics. Which has every single element including FW.

World building can be done without FW. A new version isn't going to suffer without them.


Sounds like you hate FW. There are a lot of people here who grew up with FW including me.

I love how not wanting anymore FW elements equals "hate FW", instead of realizing maybe fans are tired of FW being implemented in every new version. I grew up with FW but I also grew up with other versions too.

[TigerClaw]

World building can be done without FW. A new version isn't going to suffer without them.




I love how not wanting anymore FW elements equals "hate FW", instead of realizing maybe fans are tired of FW being implemented in every new version. I grew up with FW but I also grew up with other versions too.
I'm not tired of FW and never will be.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Well I am! There's plenty of VHS tapes and DVDs of the FW toon to enjoy, so it's best to just watch those if you're feeling nostalgic.

[neatoman]

What's holding it back is not opening up the world. We need world building. They really need to do there research and read the IDW comics. Which has every single element including FW.

Like I said some modified elements of FW is tolerable, as long as they aren't trying to just copy FW at the expense of other ideas. Which is would describe IDW.

For example, IDW does have an alien brain creature called Krang with a Technodrome, indeed that is lifted from the FW show... But:

The IDW version is an Utrom, not some disfigured Lizard monster
The Technodrome is a terraforming device, not a war machine
He is the enemy of Shredder and his servants, not one of his allies
While he plays an important role, he is in a minority of the issues
His personality and motives are quite different indeed

So while he is technically a character from the FW show, there's quite a lot of changes that make him a noticeably different character.

[TigerClaw]

Well I am! There's plenty of VHS tapes and DVDs of the FW toon to enjoy, so it's best to just watch those if you're feeling nostalgic.
But you can bring the nostalgia to modern times. Which is what IDW is doing.

Like I said some modified elements of FW is tolerable, as long as they aren't trying to just copy FW at the expense of other ideas. Which is would describe IDW.

For example, IDW does have an alien brain creature called Krang with a Technodrome, indeed that is lifted from the FW show... But:

The IDW version is an Utrom, not some disfigured Lizard monster
The Technodrome is a terraforming device, not a war machine
He is the enemy of Shredder and his servants, not one of his allies
While he plays an important role, he is in a minority of the issues
His personality and motives are quite different indeed

So while he is technically a character from the FW show, there's quite a lot of changes that make him a noticeably different character.
IDW also brought back Mona Lisa in a cool way that is both nostalgic and modern at the same time.

[neatoman]

IDW also brought back Mona Lisa in a cool way that is both nostalgic and modern at the same time.

The thing about Mona Lisa is that she seems to be brought back more because people like the idea of a salamander girl, not because they're nostalgic for the character herself. That's probably true for Mutagen Man as well, it's hard to imagine why someone would get attached to one-off characters like that unless the idea itself grabs them.

Which... I guess is better than nostalgia in a way. The primary reason people are nostalgic for Bebop and Rocksteady probably has nothing to do with how they were written and more to with their prominence in the FW cartoon.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Sounds like you hate FW. There are a lot of people here who grew up with FW including me.

I do actually. I respect what the show did for the franchise, but I've never, ever liked it.

Also, sick of something =/= hating something

[IndigoErth]

Imo... just stay true to who the Turtles are as individuals, as a team and a family and the foundation of the concept, and not really any need to try too hard to be a specific version. Pull some inspiration from good sources, and the best parts of those sources, without having to go overboard with directly trying to be those versions.


Give us a Next Mutation version with Venus on the BIG SCREEN. The kids will go wild I tell ya.
Quiet, you. Do ya really wanna scar the fan base and kids for life by finding out what Michel Bay would do with Venus? lol

[PizzaPower1985]

Imo... just stay true to who the Turtles are as individuals, as a team and a family and the foundation of the concept, and not really any need to try too hard to be a specific version. Pull some inspiration from good sources, and the best parts of those sources, without having to go overboard with directly trying to be those versions.

Ummm. That argument could be kinda close to a defense of the 2016 Bay TMNT and its sequel. The previous PD films were actually fairly true to what the 87 show did, but also tried to be its own thing unsuccessfully...

But... I know what you mean... Someone like you would never want TMNT to be silly. You and I have been on these threads before talking about this very thing, so.

[TigerClaw]

What I want these TMNT movies to be. Is like those Marvel movies. The characters are written very well, The stories are good. The action is good, It has humor. and most important of all, It has heart.

Im not saying they should copy exactly the Marvel model. But they should study how those movies respect the characters.

[IndigoErth]

Ummm. That argument could be kinda close to a defense of the 2016 Bay TMNT and its sequel. The previous PD films were actually fairly true to what the 87 show did, but also tried to be its own thing unsuccessfully...

But... I know what you mean... Someone like you would never want TMNT to be silly. You and I have been on these threads before talking about this very thing, so.
Yeah, and points do at least go to 2016 for doing better with the brothers, imo, but they lose points again for trying too hard to be the cartoon.

I feel any silliness belongs only as interaction between the brothers, just playing around "off duty," not as an allover tone for a film. (Like 2003; it's generally serious but has its moments.)

The Turtles just being goofy brothers in the right moments... fine, great, that's kind of adorable. But forced silliness like...the whole tongue thing happening with Raph in that last film and hitting the plane windshield... no thanks.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's an argument that could be used in defense of those films though, since they still created rather weak movies and screwed with it too much and in the wrong ways. No matter what version, you still gotta to right by the brothers.

[PizzaPower1985]

Yeah, and points do at least go to 2016 for doing better with the brothers, imo, but they lose points again for trying too hard to be the cartoon.

I feel any silliness belongs only as interaction between the brothers, just playing around "off duty," not as an allover tone for a film. (Like 2003; it's generally serious but has its moments.)

The Turtles just being goofy brothers in the right moments... fine, great, that's kind of adorable. But forced silliness like...the whole tongue thing happening with Raph in that last film and hitting the plane windshield... no thanks.

Fair points, indeed about the humor, though I'm not sure how many points I'd give PD for anything about 2016.

[PizzaPower1985]

What I want these TMNT movies to be. Is like those Marvel movies. The characters are written very well, The stories are good. The action is good, It has humor. and most important of all, It has heart.

Im not saying they should copy exactly the Marvel model. But they should study how those movies respect the characters.

The MCU doesn't really respect their characters anymore. They haven't since just before Phase 2 ended. If they really respected their characters, Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny would have been a huge part of Phase 1, never mind that they didn't have the rights.... and the characters would actually look like the characters OFF THE PAGE. Hollywood IS SO EMBARRASSED to put Steve Rogers in a Jack Kirby costume or Superman in a Curt Swan outfit. They're all so sycophantic for nothing but your dollar. You call that respect?

Comic books and superheroes come out of INK and PAPER. If they get put on screen with anything less than how they look on a page, or with anything less than the tone of the comic book, IT IS NOT what the fans want. Comic book movies that make a $$$billion$$$ are watered down enough so NON-FANS and the general public will buy a ticket. By that point they don't have much VERISIMILITUDE. But how many of those lowest common denominator types will actually plunk down $$$ for a funny book once they took their girlfriend/boyfriend to see "ooh: big shiny explosions, now with cursing and a pair of T*TS"? Few, my friend. Few.

[AquaParade]

There is so much to dig into with just the urban setting, foot backstory, mutant turtles, and potential reincarnation.

The sci-fi elements and even some of the ideas created in the F.W. toon should be kept in the back pocket for starters, both as a secret weapon to use when things are nearing stale, and as a means to keep the story focused and flesh out the world before you try and juggle too much.

[PizzaPower1985]

There is so much to dig into with just the urban setting, foot backstory, mutant turtles, and potential reincarnation.

The sci-fi elements and even some of the ideas created in the F.W. toon should be kept in the back pocket for starters, both as a secret weapon to use when things are nearing stale, and as a means to keep the story focused and flesh out the world before you try and juggle too much.

Perfect! You're hired. Now, go make the movie!

[IndigoErth]

Uh oh, AquaParade, good luck. lol


Personally, while it would be an honor to have some involvement in a TMNT project... I think I'd also be half terrified to find out what fans thought. lol

Fair points, indeed about the humor, though I'm not sure how many points I'd give PD for anything about 2016.
Well I didn't say how many points. lol Like getting the first few test questions right, but then failing the next 100. :trazz:

[PizzaPower1985]

Uh oh, AquaParade, good luck. lol


Personally, while it would be an honor to have some involvement in a TMNT project... I think I'd also be half terrified to find out what fans thought. lol


Well I didn't say how many points. lol Like getting the first few test questions right, but then failing the next 100. :trazz:

LoL. You'd do a great job because you're a fan of more serious TMNT. I could write a great TMNT movie with both hands tied behind my back and blindfolded. But, hey, I'm a writer and a fan, so.

And... on a test like that, haha, the points don't matter. LoL.

[Leo656]

No more goddamn live-action cartoons. It's a broken premise for this brand. We've had exactly ONE adaptation that wasn't a cartoon either literally or metaphorically (and some would argue that the 1990 film is still at least "half a cartoon"). It's been done. Never well. People love to pull out the "_______ and Movies are not the same" card, and so I'm dropping it now. Cartoons and Movies are not the same, and what is "charming" in one arena is absolutely puke-inducing elsewhere.

No more live-action cartoons. If you're not actually going to try and do anything constructive with the brand except sell toys exclusively, then maybe it's altogether time to stop making movies about it. Which is what I've been saying since the last one and will continue to say until "forever" as I don't have any faith in Hollywood to do it properly.

I'd rather never see a TMNT movie made for the entirety of the remainder humankind's existence on this planet, rather than yet another goddamn cartoon riff when we've had about 80 of them across all media. I'd rather see the entire brand die and its ashes shot into the sun, and I mean that with absolute sincerity.

What I want these TMNT movies to be. Is like those Marvel movies

Why do we not have a vomit emoji? That's the exact opposite of what a TMNT movie should be. On every single conceivable level. From the toothless "threats" to the cornball "villains" to the constant need to stop and crack jokes even while supposedly serious things are happening, to how brightly-lit and over-saturated with color everything is, to the basic premise being a $200 million CGI bonanza where the Boss Fight is either a hole in the sky or a video game character. And what's worse, that's exactly what they tried to do with the last movie and it didn't even come close to working. I mean yeah, a handful of people were jizzing themselves over finally getting Bebop and Rocksteady, but the thing absolutely bombed at the box office, which means that most people who watched the trailers decided for themselves, "This looks awful, I'm staying home". So I swear, we need to start collectively having better priorities with regard to what this franchise needs to do. Or else it's going to die and it will DESERVE to.

A TMNT movie should have nothing at all in common with a MCU movie. Or any super-hero movie, really. They're not even the same thing conceptually. I don't think it even needs to be said anymore that a big problem with TMNT movies in general is that they keep trying to make them into "super-hero movies" and make them a "blockbuster movie franchise" when that can't happen anyway since they don't even fit the "blockbuster" template. Nor should they.

The last movie did its absolute best to be "A Marvel Movie" AND a cartoon pastiche, and it tanked hard and made about half of what the previous one did. Both BayTurtles movies are choking up $5 bins everywhere. I can't fathom even a little bit why anyone would see a path to success in that formula at all. It's not even a case where like with some movies, "Well, they're divisive but they still made money". The last movie was a failure at every single level: People didn't care enough to go see it, AND it lost a fortune. Can we stop pretending that More Jokes and More Bebop is what this franchise needs? That's pretty well proven to be a fallacy once and for all.

The only time a TMNT movie ever got good reviews AND was liked by most fans AND made money, was the very first one. Ever since then, it's been "more cartoon sh*t" and the results speak for themselves. The only thing they can OR should even attempt to do, is go completely back to Square One, scrape off all the cartoon "barnacles" and try playing it "straight" for once. Forget about making $500 million and aim for something a lot smaller, more intimate, and character-based. It doesn't even have to be "gritty", since people love to play the Extremes Game with this brand and pretend it has to be All Goofy or Violent Bloodbath; it should just at the very least feel like it wasn't written in a goddamn board meeting with some McDonald's nitwit tossing out story ideas. Which is what they've ALL been except for the first one.

Problem is, you're always gonna have one or two "But I want muh Krang" people poisoning the well. And that means we're ONLY gonna get more "cartoon junk" if they keep making TMNT movies. Because the people making them think we're all idiots and we collectively do very little to prove them wrong.

[TigerClaw]

No more goddamn live-action cartoons. It's a broken premise for this brand. We've had exactly ONE adaptation that wasn't a cartoon either literally or metaphorically (and some would argue that the 1990 film is still at least "half a cartoon"). It's been done. Never well. People love to pull out the "_______ and Movies are not the same" card, and so I'm dropping it now. Cartoons and Movies are not the same, and what is "charming" in one arena is absolutely puke-inducing elsewhere.

No more live-action cartoons. If you're not actually going to try and do anything constructive with the brand except sell toys exclusively, then maybe it's altogether time to stop making movies about it. Which is what I've been saying since the last one and will continue to say until "forever" as I don't have any faith in Hollywood to do it properly.

I'd rather never see a TMNT movie made for the entirety of the remainder humankind's existence on this planet, rather than yet another goddamn cartoon riff when we've had about 80 of them across all media. I'd rather see the entire brand die and its ashes shot into the sun, and I mean that with absolute sincerity.



Why do we not have a vomit emoji? That's the exact opposite of what a TMNT movie should be. On every single conceivable level. From the toothless "threats" to the cornball "villains" to the constant need to stop and crack jokes even while supposedly serious things are happening, to how brightly-lit and over-saturated with color everything is, to the basic premise being a $200 million CGI bonanza where the Boss Fight is either a hole in the sky or a video game character. And what's worse, that's exactly what they tried to do with the last movie and it didn't even come close to working. I mean yeah, a handful of people were jizzing themselves over finally getting Bebop and Rocksteady, but the thing absolutely bombed at the box office, which means that most people who watched the trailers decided for themselves, "This looks awful, I'm staying home". So I swear, we need to start collectively having better priorities with regard to what this franchise needs to do. Or else it's going to die and it will DESERVE to.

A TMNT movie should have nothing at all in common with a MCU movie. Or any super-hero movie, really. They're not even the same thing conceptually. I don't think it even needs to be said anymore that a big problem with TMNT movies in general is that they keep trying to make them into "super-hero movies" and make them a "blockbuster movie franchise" when that can't happen anyway since they don't even fit the "blockbuster" template. Nor should they.

The last movie did its absolute best to be "A Marvel Movie" AND a cartoon pastiche, and it tanked hard and made about half of what the previous one did. Both BayTurtles movies are choking up $5 bins everywhere. I can't fathom even a little bit why anyone would see a path to success in that formula at all. It's not even a case where like with some movies, "Well, they're divisive but they still made money". The last movie was a failure at every single level: People didn't care enough to go see it, AND it lost a fortune. Can we stop pretending that More Jokes and More Bebop is what this franchise needs? That's pretty well proven to be a fallacy once and for all.

The only time a TMNT movie ever got good reviews AND was liked by most fans AND made money, was the very first one. Ever since then, it's been "more cartoon sh*t" and the results speak for themselves. The only thing they can OR should even attempt to do, is go completely back to Square One, scrape off all the cartoon "barnacles" and try playing it "straight" for once. Forget about making $500 million and aim for something a lot smaller, more intimate, and character-based. It doesn't even have to be "gritty", since people love to play the Extremes Game with this brand and pretend it has to be All Goofy or Violent Bloodbath; it should just at the very least feel like it wasn't written in a goddamn board meeting with some McDonald's nitwit tossing out story ideas. Which is what they've ALL been except for the first one.

Problem is, you're always gonna have one or two "But I want muh Krang" people poisoning the well. And that means we're ONLY gonna get more "cartoon junk" if they keep making TMNT movies. Because the people making them think we're all idiots and we collectively do very little to prove them wrong.
This is why the fandom is split. I want TMNT done in a certain way and you want it done in a certain way. There is no right or wrong way to approach it.

IDW has become the template to make a good TMNT movie based how they developed the story and characters.

[Leo656]

No, you're incorrect. Not about the fandom being split, but that there's no "Right" or "Wrong" way to do a movie.

They've tried to make the cartoons into a movie six times. It doesn't work. They went ALL-IN on it with the last one and it didn't just "fail", it self-destructed.

The definition of "Insanity" is doing the exact same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

The "Right Approach" would be in trying THE OPPOSITE of what they've been trying and failing to do for the last 25 years.

There IS a "Right Way", they just don't want to even attempt it because there's always gonna be someone banging the "We Need More Bebop" drum.

So, yeah, no, you're absolutely incorrect. Has nothing to do with You nor I; everything to do with, That Way Doesn't Work. And they need to get away from that approach.

OR, they could gamble it all on Krang again and throw another $200 million in the sh*tter. Worked great last time!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

At this point, I genuinely don't know why TMNT as a brand or a property is still viable.

The comics are going well enough, but at this point in entertainment, I don't think IP can flourish past a certain point outside of comics. Does The Walking Dead make most of its money from comics, or the TV show and video games? Willing to bet the comic cash is a drop in the bucket.

What about Batman or X-Men comics, versus the shows, movies, toys, and merchandise?

So if comics aren't the way to make bank with a franchise, and it's all about the media and merch... your media better be damn impressive. The Nick cartoon may not have been my cup of tea, but it did well enough, right? Kids and adults both liked it. But it's over now.

Does anyone watch Rise? This isn't a slag, this is a question. I don't see that many of the toys or merch in stores, and the release schedule for the episodes has been pretty spotty from what I hear.

And the movies tanked; failed, shat the bed; crashed and burned in spectacular fashion.

Right about now, it seems evident that the brand is lagging. It either needs a kickstart (which seems unlikely) or it needs to go away for awhile, before getting rebooted again ala 4Kids or 2k12. And if a schmuck like me can ask these questions, you can bet the suits in Nickelodeon are doing the same.

Anyway. This concludes my op-ed. Professor Cylons thanks you for your time.

[IndigoErth]

OR, they could gamble it all on Krang again and throw another $200 million in the sh*tter. Worked great last time!
Bringing Krang into it could have been okay-ish imo had he -- and all of the time and money spent including him -- not been entirely wasted. They could have used him for a classic alien invasion style movie, with the TMNT being the heroes that save the city/world, but instead they treated it like a video game, where they do all this other junk through most of it and Krang was just the final boss fight, instead of actually posing any kind of real threat throughout the movie. If Krang was to show up in a TMNT film one day, these were the wrong people to do it.

[Leo656]

At this point, I genuinely don't know why TMNT as a brand or a property is still viable.


The brand's not going to last forever. All it has carrying it right now is nostalgia, and the sincere adoration of Fans Of A Certain Age. I'll be shocked if it's still anything but an action figure line aimed at nostalgia collectors, in another 20-30 years.

Collectively, our kids won't care as much as we do/did about the brand. TMNT isn't going to be a lifelong obsession for them the way it is/was with Us, it's just going to be one of a hundred other things they liked a lot when they were young, then stopped caring about once they aged out of it, and pretended they never liked much at all once they get to the age of being "Too Cool for it".

And that's 100% because when we were kids, they had multiple TMNT iterations so the property "grew up" with its fans. In 2020, all the pen-holders know how to do is remind everybody about 1989. But the actual quality of the TMNT movies and shows is all aimed at little kids; the ONLY appeal for anyone over the age of 10 to even look at the things they're making now, is, "Well, I've always liked the brand." NOT because those movies and shows are of quality, or hold genuine and sincere appeal for those 30-somethings; they're not, and they don't, but they'll give a quick Nostalgia Buzz if you're a certain type of fan and that's all they even try to do. And that's "fine", but liking TMNT shouldn't be a "hold your nose and take your medicine" kind of affair.

As it is now, TMNT in its current form is officially one of those things you're supposed to watch for a bit when you're 8, then move on from. That was not the case when WE were kids, but that's the state of things now, and that's what the audience is doing, and that's why the brand is going to die off. Maybe not tomorrow but sooner than anyone thinks. The people running the brand don't know how to make a sincere connection with any audience, nor are they trying to; ALL they want to do is keep little kids out of Mommy's hair for a half hour. You can't maintain a so-called "evergreen" property that way.

Look at the actual data, whether it be here, on FB, or do a little legwork on Google: They SAY TMNT is a "kids brand", but are kids actually the ones watching the shows, going to the movies, buying the toys? No, No, and No. SOME kids do, for a little while, once they're too old for Paw Patrol and before they get a little older and become Marvel fanatics instead; but the vast majority of people consuming TMNT products Right Now are the same people who were doing so 30 years ago. The EXACT same people. ALL the money flowing into the brand is from the same people who fell in love with it in 1988, save for a few outliers who've stumbled into it along the way (and are still a vast minority in the Big Picture). To our kids, TMNT is just a fad in between other fads they got into briefly and then forgot about. They don't care. They're not going to. And why should they, anyway?

Whether anyone likes it or not, the whole thing dies with us. When the 30/40-somethings stop caring and eventually slowly pass away, the "next generation" isn't going to be banging the drum to keep the TMNT "brand" alive. They were given no reason to care, so they don't care. THAT is what's going to happen. So if you're confused as to How or Why TMNT remains a "viable" brand in 2020... don't "worry", eventually it won't be.

Don't take that to mean that the brand is going to vanish entirely. I don't think that; I think it's simply going to be like Thundercats generally is, or what He-Man/MOTU is most of the time: A toy license that comes around every few years to sell $50 action figures to adult collectors with nostalgia boners. At some point, though, I completely expect that the comic books and cartoons and movies will all stop entirely. I mean, they'll have to stop once it becomes obvious that they don't sell. But the one avenue where TMNT has proven to be a consistent winner is the toys, and as stated even brands like Thundercats, where nobody's asking for a new cartoon and a movie would likely bomb harder than anything ever made, have proven that they can do huge business in short spurts every few years selling plastic to grown-ups who never grew up.

So yeah, that's the future of the TMNT brand circa 2040 or so. Maybe sooner. But that's the inevitability: No movies, no cartoons, not even any comics, just lots and lots of collectible action figures.

Honestly, I'll take that "Dark Future". If everything ELSE has to be junk but the toys can at least be cool, then whatever, that's fine.

But its the only way things can turn out, because they HAD a chance to grow a New Generation of TMNT fans over the last 20 years and they completely wasted it.

[TigerClaw]

Whoever they get to do the next TMNT Movie. It has to be someone who actually cares. The new TMNT movie needs somebody like a Jeff Fowler. The director of the Sonic Movie. He loved Sonic and made a good movie out of it despite the issues with the first design of the character. But that movie turned out to be extremely successful. And it shows if you have somebody involved who actually cares about it.

So whoever they hire to make the next TMNT film. It better be someone who knows about TMNT and I hope they take inspiration from the IDW comics. Which are at this moment the standard for how TMNT should be done.

[Leo656]

So whoever they hire to make the next TMNT film. It better be someone who knows about TMNT and I hope they take inspiration from the IDW comics. Which are at this moment the standard for how TMNT should be done.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

- Dozens of random mutant characters, so that the TMNT are not in any way special.

- An unwieldy supporting cast which often threatens to make the Turtles "guest stars" in their own title.

- Inconsistent character motivations.

- Subplots which go on forever before being brushed aside without ever being resolved to any satisfactory conclusion.

- A firm "PG" mandate from the corporate office.

- Cramming stuff from various disconnected TMNT lines that have nothing to do with each other, just to make someone go "Hey! I remember that from when I was a kid!"

- When things get slow, add a Fifth Turtle and make sure she's got a uterus, because it's totally about Story and not being desperate for attention, at all.

........THAT is how TMNT "should be done"? :lol: Sorry, I think you're alone on that island. The only "standard" it seems to uphold is, "TMNT is generally a mess. Here's One More Mess." Maybe it's more of a delightful mess than a tragic one, but... "The way it SHOULD be done"?! :lol: Holy sh*t, I think I cracked a rib.

I know lots of people who like the IDW comic just fine - while they're always, ALWAYS being sure to add the "Y'know... for what it is" qualifier. But I've never heard anyone EVER say "This is the perfect example of what TMNT should be." That's... well, "It Is What It Is."

[PizzaPower1985]

At this point, I genuinely don't know why TMNT as a brand or a property is still viable.

The comics are going well enough, but at this point in entertainment, I don't think IP can flourish past a certain point outside of comics. Does The Walking Dead make most of its money from comics, or the TV show and video games? Willing to bet the comic cash is a drop in the bucket.

What about Batman or X-Men comics, versus the shows, movies, toys, and merchandise?

So if comics aren't the way to make bank with a franchise, and it's all about the media and merch... your media better be damn impressive. The Nick cartoon may not have been my cup of tea, but it did well enough, right? Kids and adults both liked it. But it's over now.

Does anyone watch Rise? This isn't a slag, this is a question. I don't see that many of the toys or merch in stores, and the release schedule for the episodes has been pretty spotty from what I hear.

And the movies tanked; failed, shat the bed; crashed and burned in spectacular fashion.

Right about now, it seems evident that the brand is lagging. It either needs a kickstart (which seems unlikely) or it needs to go away for awhile, before getting rebooted again ala 4Kids or 2k12. And if a schmuck like me can ask these questions, you can bet the suits in Nickelodeon are doing the same.

Anyway. This concludes my op-ed. Professor Cylons thanks you for your time.

I was thinking about this yesterday... as with Superman, Batman, Spidey (any decades long superhero that has had a gazillion adaptations)... where does the franchise go from here?

There IS only 1 solution. Uno, singular. 1 final attempt that will be new. A straight, near humorless (humor can come from the absurdity), balls-to-the-wall riff on Mirage. No multi-colored masks, no pizza, and at this point, maybe not even a prolonged Foot Clan arc. IF we want new, if we want a TMNT with VERISIMILITUDE, we should set up a trilogy that gives us the tone of early Mirage books, maybe with some fanciful brand stuff in the sequels like Krang and a utrom invasion, Bishop etc. Some of us even have fantastic outlines (wink, wink).

I mean IF we want NEW. IF we don't want a goddamned cartoon, then yeah, that's the only route to take but none of the older TMNT comic book fans are in charge, so.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I was thinking about this yesterday... as with Superman, Batman, Spidey (any decades long superhero that has had a gazillion adaptations)... where does the franchise go from here?

There IS only 1 solution. Uno, singular. 1 final attempt that will be new. A straight, near humorless (humor can come from the absurdity), balls-to-the-wall riff on Mirage. No multi-colored masks, no pizza, and at this point, maybe not even a prolonged Foot Clan arc. IF we want new, if we want a TMNT with VERISIMILITUDE, we should set up a trilogy that gives us the tone of early Mirage books, maybe with some fanciful brand stuff in the sequels like Krang and a utrom invasion, Bishop etc. Some of us even have fantastic outlines (wink, wink).

I mean IF we want NEW. IF we don't want a goddamned cartoon, then yeah, that's the only route to take but none of the older TMNT comic book fans are in charge, so.

The pizza can be kept, but more like the 4kids show where it's just another type of food they eat, rather than the only food they eat. The turtles should eat Pizza, Chinese food, Mexican food (I can see Leo also being a fan of sushi)

Bishop in a live action movie would be awesome. Maybe even get Hugo Weaving as a direct reference to how the 4kids bishop was directly based on Agent Smith. Although Hugo would be too old to pay it idk

[TigerClaw]

Non of the things you guys want for the movie is going to happen as long as Nickelodeon is in control of the brand.

They are never going to make a TMNT movie that appeals to a mature audience. Its meant to be for all ages.

Right now the only good TMNT is the IDW comics. Rise of the TMNT is meant for a much younger audience and I know some people here aren't a fan of it and some are. But whatever.

The fact to the matter is. When they do the next one. They are gonna play it safe.

[IndigoErth]

Though "new" is a dangerous word if used too loosely. PD tried to do "new." Because apparently the belief about what "new" is, is rebooting from the start and effing up the important things that shouldn't be touched.

Screwing with what's already in place is not the kind of "new" I want... The new I want is for them to step FAR the hell away from the origin and the important established things and find an empty time period with adult Turtles and room for development and come up with a legit new story that fits nicely into the TMNT brand.

Keep it down to Earth. And if they really have such a hard time not going for the explosive, hyper, overdone action scene style of film... then maybe go the sci-fi angle and hit up a Dimension X/outer space story and do the crazy stuff there.



I'm entirely opposed to any belief of something like TMNT needing to be rebooted from the beginning over and over and over. Anyone who isn't even loosely familiar with them but becomes interested this far into the franchise has plenty of other films and material they can go back and check out if they want to understand the origin; or have parents who can find that for them.

edit: Though if anyone ever tries to go "new" again by choosing the 'Rise' type of characterization and personalities for them and making Leo like that... screw it, I'm just gonna burn down the world, somehow. :tgrumble: (Too much of a sucker for that guy, so do right by him and I'm probably sold at least a little.)


They are never going to make a TMNT movie that appeals to a mature audience. Its meant to be for all ages.
BUT. But. While they may not have made it themselves, they did allow DC the freedom to do that Batman/TMNT animated movie, which definitely isn't for little kids.

So I'm not entirely convinced that Nick is NOT willing to go there -- esp as they've surprisingly actually aired that movie on their own channel a few times -- but only via another company. Sooo if they'll just keep licensing them out to others who DO want to do it, yeah, that would be fantastic.

[PizzaPower1985]

Though "new" is a dangerous word if used too loosely. PD tried to do "new." Because apparently the belief about what "new" is, is rebooting from the start and effing up the important things that shouldn't be touched.

Screwing with what's already in place is not the kind of "new" I want... The new I want is for them to step FAR the hell away from the origin and the important established things and find an empty time period with adult Turtles and room for development and come up with a legit new story that fits nicely into the TMNT brand.

Keep it down to Earth. And if they really have such a hard time not going for the explosive, hyper, overdone action scene style of film... them maybe go the sci-fi angle and hit up a Dimension X/outer space story and do the crazy stuff there.



I'm entirely opposed to any belief of something like TMNT needing to be rebooted from the beginning over and over and over. Anyone who isn't even loosely familiar with them but becomes interested this far into the franchise has plenty of other films and material they can go back and check out if they want to understand the origin; or have parents who can find that for them.

edit: Though if anyone ever tries to go "new" again by choosing the 'Rise' type of characterization and personalities for them and making Leo like that... screw it, I'm just gonna burn down the world, somehow. :tgrumble: (Too much of a sucker for that guy, so do right by him and I'm probably sold at least a little.)



BUT. But. While they may not have made it themselves, they did allow DC the freedom to do that Batman/TMNT animated movie, which definitely isn't for little kids.

So I'm not entirely convinced that Nick is NOT willing to go there -- esp as they've surprisingly actually aired that movie on their own channel a few times -- but only via another company. Sooo if they'll just keep licensing them out to others who DO want to do it, yeah, that would be fantastic.

I like a lot of this here... Down to earth... at least for the 1st film. The fanciful sci-fi stuff won't work, at least until sequels... Origin should be like a 1 minute sequence just to set up this incarnation and its rules. We've just got to get it back to a 2K3/IDW/Mirage flavor and NOT try to make a Saturday morning cartoon.

[neatoman]

The definition of "Insanity" is doing the exact same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.



Pretty sure the actual definition of insanity is an inability to function in society and obey laws due to mental illness... But I wouldn't exactly trust someone who intentionally greenlights movies with the same approach as a bunch flops to pay their taxes either (if the Producers is to be believed), so I guess that would be close enough....

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The brand's not going to last forever. All it has carrying it right now is nostalgia, and the sincere adoration of Fans Of A Certain Age. I'll be shocked if it's still anything but an action figure line aimed at nostalgia collectors, in another 20-30 years.

Collectively, our kids won't care as much as we do/did about the brand. TMNT isn't going to be a lifelong obsession for them the way it is/was with Us, it's just going to be one of a hundred other things they liked a lot when they were young, then stopped caring about once they aged out of it, and pretended they never liked much at all once they get to the age of being "Too Cool for it".

And that's 100% because when we were kids, they had multiple TMNT iterations so the property "grew up" with its fans. In 2020, all the pen-holders know how to do is remind everybody about 1989. But the actual quality of the TMNT movies and shows is all aimed at little kids; the ONLY appeal for anyone over the age of 10 to even look at the things they're making now, is, "Well, I've always liked the brand." NOT because those movies and shows are of quality, or hold genuine and sincere appeal for those 30-somethings; they're not, and they don't, but they'll give a quick Nostalgia Buzz if you're a certain type of fan and that's all they even try to do. And that's "fine", but liking TMNT shouldn't be a "hold your nose and take your medicine" kind of affair.

As it is now, TMNT in its current form is officially one of those things you're supposed to watch for a bit when you're 8, then move on from. That was not the case when WE were kids, but that's the state of things now, and that's what the audience is doing, and that's why the brand is going to die off. Maybe not tomorrow but sooner than anyone thinks. The people running the brand don't know how to make a sincere connection with any audience, nor are they trying to; ALL they want to do is keep little kids out of Mommy's hair for a half hour. You can't maintain a so-called "evergreen" property that way.

Look at the actual data, whether it be here, on FB, or do a little legwork on Google: They SAY TMNT is a "kids brand", but are kids actually the ones watching the shows, going to the movies, buying the toys? No, No, and No. SOME kids do, for a little while, once they're too old for Paw Patrol and before they get a little older and become Marvel fanatics instead; but the vast majority of people consuming TMNT products Right Now are the same people who were doing so 30 years ago. The EXACT same people. ALL the money flowing into the brand is from the same people who fell in love with it in 1988, save for a few outliers who've stumbled into it along the way (and are still a vast minority in the Big Picture). To our kids, TMNT is just a fad in between other fads they got into briefly and then forgot about. They don't care. They're not going to. And why should they, anyway?

Whether anyone likes it or not, the whole thing dies with us. When the 30/40-somethings stop caring and eventually slowly pass away, the "next generation" isn't going to be banging the drum to keep the TMNT "brand" alive. They were given no reason to care, so they don't care. THAT is what's going to happen. So if you're confused as to How or Why TMNT remains a "viable" brand in 2020... don't "worry", eventually it won't be.

Don't take that to mean that the brand is going to vanish entirely. I don't think that; I think it's simply going to be like Thundercats generally is, or what He-Man/MOTU is most of the time: A toy license that comes around every few years to sell $50 action figures to adult collectors with nostalgia boners. At some point, though, I completely expect that the comic books and cartoons and movies will all stop entirely. I mean, they'll have to stop once it becomes obvious that they don't sell. But the one avenue where TMNT has proven to be a consistent winner is the toys, and as stated even brands like Thundercats, where nobody's asking for a new cartoon and a movie would likely bomb harder than anything ever made, have proven that they can do huge business in short spurts every few years selling plastic to grown-ups who never grew up.

So yeah, that's the future of the TMNT brand circa 2040 or so. Maybe sooner. But that's the inevitability: No movies, no cartoons, not even any comics, just lots and lots of collectible action figures.

Honestly, I'll take that "Dark Future". If everything ELSE has to be junk but the toys can at least be cool, then whatever, that's fine.

But its the only way things can turn out, because they HAD a chance to grow a New Generation of TMNT fans over the last 20 years and they completely wasted it.

$hit, man, I think you nailed it there. I'm convinced. :tlol:

I mean, look around here. Most of the newer fans who came in because of the 2012 cartoon are gone. I could name several, good kids, not here anymore.

The brand didn't capitalize on the newer fans, so they lost interest and moved on. The old guard is all that's left, really, and like you said... we're not gonna last.

[PizzaPower1985]

Yeah, going through the last few pages of this thread has made me realize... I honestly could give $hit about a future TMNT movie, because superhero movies mostly suck and my preferred version is a pipe-dream. It's probably because I'm just old and bitter but I haven't seen a string of really great entertaining superhero films in a long time. That's not to say that Marvel hasn't had its share of greats (mostly before the MCU). DC too. Wonder Woman was excellent. Marvel between 1998 and 2008 was pretty good. Early MCU was excellent. But there have been very few times where consistent superhero movies back to back to back have held my interest. A new TMNT film is just going to be another cartoon. Because that's all Nickelodeon knows how to do.

[Cyndaquilfan123]

$hit, man, I think you nailed it there. I'm convinced. :tlol:

I mean, look around here. Most of the newer fans who came in because of the 2012 cartoon are gone. I could name several, good kids, not here anymore.

The brand didn't capitalize on the newer fans, so they lost interest and moved on. The old guard is all that's left, really, and like you said... we're not gonna last.

Hey, I'm here because of the 2012 cartoon. Not all of us kids you talk about are gone. The 2012 cartoon made me and many others a fan for life.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Hey, I'm here because of the 2012 cartoon. Not all of us kids you talk about are gone. The 2012 cartoon made me and many others a fan for life.

Well $hit, man, I'm glad you at least stuck around. :tgrin:

[Leo656]

The best thing about 'Claw is how whenever he tries to debate or dispute me, he ends up thoroughly proving my entire point.:lol:

Yes, it's impossible for anything of substance to get made into a TMNT movie so long as Nick owns it. I've been saying that for 10 years and we've seen it proven twice beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt. And that's WHY the brand is not going to last forever and is going to be shelved a lot sooner than anyone wants to think about.

The problem is, "fans" who insist that a cartoon show they fell in love with in 1987, when they were still wiping boogers on their TMNT bed sheets, still needs to be the driving force behind the brand and it's storytelling NOW in the year 2020.

They spent 30 years begging for Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, and a movie that tries to be a live-action episode of the FW cartoon. They did it, almost nobody liked it and it lost a ton of money. We should FINALLY be allowed to move on.

Some people don't "get" that THAT approach isn't going to work anymore. If they don't aim higher, the brand is dead.

The "all ages" argument also exposes the level of thought - or lack thereof - on the part of those who try and use that "logic". Nobody is saying it has to be R-rated and violent, they're saying STOP treating the brand like a literal cartoon. Anyone who can't see the distinction simply has no ability towards thought and reason. Just because children watch SOME of the TMNT media does NOT mean that ALL of it has to or SHOULD be aimed entirely at 8-year olds.

That way of thinking, right there - "SOME of it's for kids, so ALL of it needs to be for kids" - needs to go away forever. And so do the fans who think that way, quite frankly. That whole attitude is what's singlehandedly holding the franchise back from ever reaching greatness, or even actual "popularity" again.

You HAVE to expand your brand or your brand dies. If Superman, Batman, etc. weren't allowed to reach out to different audiences, they'd be gone. You evolve, or you die.

I used to hope TMNT could get to that "Batman Level" one day, but it's never happening. Because some people are perfectly fine trying to wallow in nostalgia at the expense of everyone who chooses NOT to live predominantly in the past. That's incredibly frustrating.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Everything Leo has just said I agree with 100%. Franchises that stagnate and don't try new things die out and are eventually forgotten

[PizzaPower1985]

Everything Leo has just said I agree with 100%. Franchises that stagnate and don't try new things die out and are eventually forgotten

I'm learning very quickly that most of what Leo says, believes or puts into an argument is going to be objectively correct. I have the advantage of sharing a lot of the same opinions and a lot of the same fandoms as Leo too, so we pretty much agree on most things.

Evolving is important, BUT the TMNT have evolved A LOT over 30 years. They just no longer are evolving.

Ciro Nieli was an older fan, presumably an original turtle fan during turtlemania in the 90's and look at the power he had with 2K12. Look what he did with that show. He could have easily gave us an "evolution" of the 2003 show... brought it a step up. But no, it was cartoony in the negative sense of the word and the show's humor was juvenile and NOT aimed at Leo, myself or many other "old" fans. Ciro could have turned the franchise towards what it currently needs to be but he didn't do that. Why? I have a hard time believing Nick got in his way that much.

[AquaParade]

Fun thread.

Leo, I agree with you to a great extent and enjoyed reading yours and everyone else's posts. I sort of think your cynicism-knob got stuck on overdrive, at least in comparison to my own perspective.

Like you said, that is a "dark future" but not the only possibly outcome in my mind. Actually, we seem to have already arrived there, by your standards, because the toys are pretty damn great but there's not much else going on right now. The Last Ronin is something special for old fans, but overall it's pretty quiet out there, and honestly, not so bad. I like the few treats we get, and I keep my eyes open for a lucky roll of the dice that leads to a great Netflix series, that, like Leo said, is mature enough to represent the best of the franchise. I still think that's possible. My typical argument being that crazier things happen in the entertainment business all the time.

Hell, even He-Man, who we compared the turtles dark future to, has an upcoming Netflix series by Kevin Smith. It could be trash fire, but that's a somewhat ambitious attempt for such a forgotten franchise. If He-Man can get there, TMNT has certainly stoked enough flames to keep the possibilities ever so slightly open for a good while to come.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Ciro Nieli was an older fan, presumably an original turtle fan during turtlemania in the 90's and look at the power he had with 2K12. Look what he did with that show. He could have easily gave us an "evolution" of the 2003 show... brought it a step up. But no, it was cartoony in the negative sense of the word and the show's humor was juvenile and NOT aimed at Leo, myself or many other "old" fans. Ciro could have turned the franchise towards what it currently needs to be but he didn't do that. Why? I have a hard time believing Nick got in his way that much.

If I recall, Ciro was more of a fan of the Mirage comics and wasn't too huge on FW.

While 2012 has it's rather strange moments, it's actually good. It has a lot of aspects that remind me of the 2003 series while still different enough to be it's own thing. The show can get really dark, let alone creepy thanks to Ciro and Brandon's love for horror. You might like it despite its flaws.

[PizzaPower1985]

If I recall, Ciro was more of a fan of the Mirage comics and wasn't too huge on FW.

While 2012 has it's rather strange moments, it's actually good. I'd say it's like a slightly lighter but still dark version of the 2003 series while still different enough to be it's own thing. The show can get really dark, let alone creepy thanks to Ciro and Brandon's love for horror. You might like it despite its flaws.

Am I missing something? I don't understand how someone who loves Mirage and horror stuff could have made that show. I watched the complete first and second seasons and saw so many sight-gags and so much humor that it just didn't feel like a mature take. It was not made for anybody but very young people. Sorry, it just wasn't my bag, dude!

[TurtleTitan97]

It was not made for anybody but very young people.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact.

[AquaParade]

I think the 2012 show is great as an "all-ages" TMNT product. It knocks it out of the park in that respect, and is pretty much what we should expect from a Nickelodeon cartoon.

The problem, as others have pointed out, is that there is nowhere for kids to go from there.

[PizzaPower1985]

I think the 2012 show is great as an "all-ages" TMNT product. It knocks it out of the park in that respect, and is pretty much what we should expect from a Nickelodeon cartoon.

The problem, as others have pointed out, is that there is nowhere for kids to go from there.

If "all-ages" is a nice way of saying it's not meant for an older audience, then fine, I can accept that definition. Maybe then, what I mean when I say that something like 2K12 is only for very young people, is that it's a Nickelodeon cartoon... 2K12 has very little connection to its source material in terms of tone. Again, a deeper take on TMNT doesn't have to be a Mirage clone, but for so many fans to sit here and say that something like 2K12 (or a show like it) has any reverence for the same audience of TMNT fans that watch The Sopranos, slasher films or a Scorsese picture... I'm just not seeing the connection.

If it's not for children then there has to be some kind of care and reverence to the source material, like the 2003 series did. The exact problem WE are having is that when Rise of the TMNT was announced at comic-con, people older than 35 stood up and cheered for it. This is why the movie project (and every other attempt at a TMNT film) is going to be a disaster.

Leo mentioned evolving the brand... I will take it out on a similar limb... evolve the brand with the audience as they age or eventually your brand is going to die.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Am I missing something? I don't understand how someone who loves Mirage and horror stuff could have made that show. I watched the complete first and second seasons and saw so many sight-gags and so much humor that it just didn't feel like a mature take. It was not made for anybody but very young people. Sorry, it just wasn't my bag, dude!

Media that are mature in tone can still have humour and jokes. It's all about the style of humour and how often it's in the show, not to mention how it's incorporated, in terms of placement and how it gels with the mature tone.

[PizzaPower1985]

Media that are mature in tone can still have humour and jokes. It's all about the style of humour and how often it's in the show, not to mention how it's incorporated, in terms of placement and how it gels with the mature tone.

But what you quoted was in reference to 2K12. At what point was that show mature exactly? At what point did it approach a serious tone? Was there an episode I missed where the censors had a field day over drug references, sexual innuendo, over the top violence (all of these were present in Batman: the Animated Series, 90s X-men, 90's Spider-man shows and censors were going mad)?

All I ever saw was Mikey being childish, the terrible Donnie-April puppy dog romance/crush thing and character designs that were clearly made to be marketable to children.

I agree that humor can be incorporated into mature entertainment but they injected so much humor and so many jokes into this show that it was clearly, plain-as-day not made for a mature audience.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

But what you quoted was in reference to 2K12. At what point was that show mature exactly? At what point did it approach a serious tone? Was there an episode I missed where the censors had a field day over drug references, sexual innuendo, over the top violence (all of these were present in Batman: the Animated Series, 90s X-men, 90's Spider-man shows and censors were going mad)?

All I ever saw was Mikey being childish, the terrible Donnie-April puppy dog romance/crush thing and character designs that were clearly made to be marketable to children.

I agree that humor can be incorporated into mature entertainment but they injected so much humor and so many jokes into this show that it was clearly, plain-as-day not made for a mature audience.

My quote was about media in general. I've only seen A season and a half of the 2012 series (really not my thing).

[Vicky82]

But what you quoted was in reference to 2K12. At what point was that show mature exactly? At what point did it approach a serious tone? Was there an episode I missed where the censors had a field day over drug references, sexual innuendo, over the top violence (all of these were present in Batman: the Animated Series, 90s X-men, 90's Spider-man shows and censors were going mad)?

All I ever saw was Mikey being childish, the terrible Donnie-April puppy dog romance/crush thing and character designs that were clearly made to be marketable to children.

I agree that humor can be incorporated into mature entertainment but they injected so much humor and so many jokes into this show that it was clearly, plain-as-day not made for a mature audience.

There were quiet a lot of dark, mature moments in the 2012 show

Here some of them

A lot of on screen deaths
Zombie Shredder
Mutant Shredder
Splinter 'death' and The World getting destroyed in season 3 final
The Rat King's corpse
Splinter's permanent death in season 4 final
Kavaxas arc in season 5
Tiger Claw getting is arm cut off

[PizzaPower1985]

I had an epiphany when I was in the bath today, and I realized why I was destined... (oh never mind, stupid movie lines in my head again).

No, my "epiphany" was that a NEW turtle movie should be low budget. It should feature the turtles origin, rescuing and then meeting April, a confrontation with Casey Jones in the park, the Foot finding the sewer and capturing Splinter, a retreat to Northampton, a Return to New York and a rooftop battle with Shredder. Oh... wait (this sounds familiar)!

Well maybe a new turtle movie shouldn't be all that but MAYBE it should be low(er) budget. HEAR ME OUT... what if it was low(er) budget, and the filmmakers drew HEAVY inspiration from old Hong Kong movies from the 80's. What if the action was LOW KEY and the story was deep and introspective. What if the villain wasn't Shredder again but maybe a group of lesser baddies. I dunno. I think the TMNT movie I want... oh hell, I don't know what I want. Yeah, that's my problem. I DO KNOW that I don't want big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

I want the opposite of big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I had an epiphany when I was in the bath today, and I realized why I was destined... (oh never mind, stupid movie lines in my head again).

No, my "epiphany" was that a NEW turtle movie should be low budget. It should feature the turtles origin, rescuing and then meeting April, a confrontation with Casey Jones in the park, the Foot finding the sewer and capturing Splinter, a retreat to Northampton, a Return to New York and a rooftop battle with Shredder. Oh... wait (this sounds familiar)!

Well maybe a new turtle movie shouldn't be all that but MAYBE it should be low(er) budget. HEAR ME OUT... what if it was low(er) budget, and the filmmakers drew HEAVY inspiration from old Hong Kong movies from the 80's. What if the action was LOW KEY and the story was deep and introspective. What if the villain wasn't Shredder again but maybe a group of lesser baddies. I dunno. I think the TMNT movie I want... oh hell, I don't know what I want. Yeah, that's my problem. I DO KNOW that I don't want big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

I want the opposite of big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

How low of a budget would it need? The first PD movie had a budget of 125 - 150 million, with the sequel being roughly the same. I personally think about maybe 85 - 100 million

[PizzaPower1985]

How low of a budget would it need? The first PD movie had a budget of 125 - 150 million, with the sequel being roughly the same. I personally think about maybe 85 - 100 million

I'm wanting to get away from special effects as much as possible. The turtles obviously have to be CGI, with a proper design this time, but I'm thinking a practical effects film with CG turtles should cost no more than 75 million, maybe a hundred mill. IF we wanna be generous.

I don't know. Obviously, I'm not in charge and the prevailing film will probably be a cartoony, humorous bombastic puddle of vomit soaked, maggot-ridden diarrhea like last time.

I just think elements that need to be there are:

1) Dark, seedy, rainy, decrepit New York.
2) CGI Turtles
3) practical, professional stunts and fight choreography
4) A deep/introspective, compelling and DELIBERATELY paced plot
5) An attempt to pull back from the sillier elements of the franchise.

[AquaParade]

I'm all for slashing the budget. Movies like this have become way too reliant on computer animated special effects. Marvel really goes all out and makes it work in their favor when it comes to spectacles like Infinity War & Endgame, but generally speaking, I'm completely over it.

I'm craving practical effects and I'll take a pretty well choreographed fight involving rubber suits over more cgi any day of the week. It also forces the filmmakers to stay on their toes when it comes to creativity. Less is more. Just look at what Deadpool and Joker were able to accomplish with smaller budgets. Take those and bump them up slightly to pay for the suits and we are golden.

[PizzaPower1985]

I'm all for slashing the budget. Movies like this have become way too reliant on computer animated special effects. Marvel really goes all out and makes it work in their favor when it comes to spectacles like Infinity War & Endgame, but generally speaking, I'm completely over it.

I'm craving practical effects and I'll take a pretty well choreographed fight involving rubber suits over more cgi any day of the week. It also forces the filmmakers to stay on their toes when it comes to creativity. Less is more. Just look at what Deadpool and Joker were able to accomplish with smaller budgets. Take those and bump them up slightly to pay for the suits and we are golden.

I completely agree and sympathize with everything you're thinking.... Suits tho? In an age of CG? Have radio-controlled animatronics improved that much since the days of Jim Henson/Neverending Story/TMNT 1990/Dark Crystal or otherwise?

I think CG could be used to great effect IF you only used it for the TMNT. Some of these turtle fan films have been amazing looking, even if they often don't tell any kind of story.

[IndigoErth]

I'm okay with it having some computer aided effects, but don't go overboard and avoid going to a too grossly unnatural level. A little to jazz it up a bit or do things that can't be safely done on set, fine. But avoid stereotypical "blockbuster" level effects.

ALSO, please stop designing these movies based on/starting with ONE action scene in the middle that the rest of the movie is built around. That method is not impressive and just seems to end up with weak results in the allover film.


Although, don't hate me for it... something just crossed my mind -- and disclaimer **is not what I want for any Turtles film that is supposed to be any kind of real example of what TMNT should be** -- about the way any frigging thing possible can explode in the first cartoon... If someone is so desperate to turn the first cartoon into a film, then someday a comedy film in the style of some of the good parody movies could be kind of hilarious... esp if it includes the exploding toast I have a gif of. The total opposite direction, as absurd as possible on purpose. :trazz::tlol:

ACTUALLY... I could TOTALLY see this as part of a crossover parody that plays on crazy (and/or exaggerated) stuff from multiple superhero properties. I kind of want that someday. lol But the exploding toast is a must.

[PizzaPower1985]

I'm okay with it having some computer aided effects, but don't go overboard and avoid going to a too grossly unnatural level. A little to jazz it up a bit or do things that can't be safely done on set, fine. But avoid stereotypical "blockbuster" level effects.

ALSO, please stop designing these movies based on/starting with ONE action scene in the middle that the rest of the movie is built around. That method is not impressive and just seems to end up with weak results in the allover film.


Although, don't hate me for it... something just crossed my mind -- and disclaimer **is not what I want for any Turtles film that is supposed to be any kind of real example of what TMNT should be** -- about the way any frigging thing possible can explode in the first cartoon... If someone is so desperate to turn the first cartoon into a film, then someday a comedy film in the style of some of the good parody movies could be kind of hilarious... esp if it includes the exploding toast I have a gif of. The total opposite direction, as absurd as possible on purpose. :trazz::tlol:

ACTUALLY... I could TOTALLY see this as part of a crossover parody that plays on crazy (and/or exaggerated) stuff from multiple superhero properties. I kind of want that someday. lol But the exploding toast is a must.

Now, that's interesting. A complete comedy was the very first idea back when TMNT 1990 was being developed. Billy Crystal and several A list comedian film actors at the time were going to be painted green and wear cloth masks and such. I think Bill Murray was in the running for Leonardo... whoo. glad we dodged that bullet.

[IndigoErth]

A list comedian film actors at the time were going to be painted green and wear cloth masks and such. I think Bill Murray was in the running for Leonardo... whoo. glad we dodged that bullet.
Yeah, that's awful. No matter if something is serious or comedy, the Turtles need to be the Turtles. I'd have no interest in dumb humans dressed like that.

[AquaParade]

I completely agree and sympathize with everything you're thinking.... Suits tho? In an age of CG? Have radio-controlled animatronics improved that much since the days of Jim Henson/Neverending Story/TMNT 1990/Dark Crystal or otherwise?

I think CG could be used to great effect IF you only used it for the TMNT. Some of these turtle fan films have been amazing looking, even if they often don't tell any kind of story.

I think you would certainly use computers to enhance the suits, but my thinking is that if you can even improve on those Henson suits by 10%, then you are already better off than you would be with the computer animation.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I think you would certainly use computers to enhance the suits, but my thinking is that if you can even improve on those Henson suits by 10%, then you are already better off than you would be with the computer animation.

Plus using the suits would physically hinder the actors compared to motion capture with CGI on top, forcing the film-makers to utilize proper martial arts for the action scenes

Limitation breeds creativity. That's why the last 2 movies were lazy and unoriginal

[PizzaPower1985]

I think you would certainly use computers to enhance the suits, but my thinking is that if you can even improve on those Henson suits by 10%, then you are already better off than you would be with the computer animation.


Well, I'm convinced. You've seriously changed my mind on the suits with CG enhancements idea. That said, is anyone using puppetry these days? I'm assuming the heads would still have to be puppeted unless filmmakers just went the Iron Man route and fully CG'd the turtle's faces?

[IndigoErth]

And that is what's so stupid though, is that the mocap and CGI should have allowed for the best possible actual real life martial arts we've seen out of the TMNT...and they wasted it. :tgrumble: It WOULD be better than done in clunky suits, since proper martial art stunt guys would have a lot more freedom in lightweight mocap suits, but if they aren't going to bother... :roll:

Suits are fine, but the one thing I really do prefer the CGI for it the amount of facial expression, esp subtle stuff, and perfect mouth/voice syncing that suits with animatronics are probably never going to reach, at least not in our lifetimes.



Case in point... I still love PD Leo's very subtle change in expression when Mikey's "silent but deadly" joke suddenly dawns on him. Makes me laugh every time. You can't get that kind of subtle expression from "puppet" eyes and faces.

[AquaParade]

Plus using the suits would physically hinder the actors compared to motion capture with CGI on top, forcing the film-makers to utilize proper martial arts for the action scenes

Limitation breeds creativity. That's why the last 2 movies were lazy and unoriginal

Agreed.

Well, I'm convinced. You've seriously changed my mind on the suits with CG enhancements idea. That said, is anyone using puppetry these days? I'm assuming the heads would still have to be puppeted unless filmmakers just went the Iron Man route and fully CG'd the turtle's faces?

That's the million dollar question in my mind. I am not up to date at all on modern puppetry, but it might be worth looking into the recent "Dark Crystal" movie, which might be at the forefront of that sort of thing. I'm sure many here are more up to date on the Henson studio than I am.

Y'all, the other thing about lower budgets, is that it's looking like Hollywood will have no choice but to head that way with how things are looking. Theaters are in dire condition, which means Hollywood will have to think more than twice about splurging their budget on a product that many people may not be willing to see in theaters. It could end up being a saving grace for the genre - just as we are reaching what seems to be an apex in spectacle with Endgame, the way to freshen things up may be to ratchet everything way down and go relatively "low-fi".

Joker and Deadpool have already lit the way.

[PizzaPower1985]

Agreed.



That's the million dollar question in my mind. I am not up to date at all on modern puppetry, but it might be worth looking into the recent "Dark Crystal" movie, which might be at the forefront of that sort of thing. I'm sure many here are more up to date on the Henson studio than I am.

Y'all, the other thing about lower budgets, is that it's looking like Hollywood will have no choice but to head that way with how things are looking. Theater's are in dire condition, which means Hollywood will have to think more than twice about splurging their budget on a product that many people may not be willing to see in theaters. It could end up being a saving grace for the genre - just as we are reaching what seems to be an apex in spectacle with Endgame, the way to freshen things up may be to ratchet everything way down and go relatively "low-fi".

Joker and Deadpool have already lit the way.

It's interesting that you say that about theaters. No doubt that the Covid-19 SARS virus is expediting the death of theaters. Do I think they will disappear completely? Yes, but a long time from now. Will the industry suffer untold numbers of closures, sooner? YES. No doubt. They are already going the way of shopping malls in smaller towns.

I think any studio is going to have to count all their chickens before they send them out to hatch, so to speak. Lower budgets for blockbuster films may be the wave of the future.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Now that the CGI movie has been heavily rumoured, does anyone else think it's going to replace this, or be its own thing?

[TigerClaw]

Now that the CGI movie has been heavily rumoured, does anyone else think it's going to replace this, or be its own thing?
Well the CGI movie will be its own thing and not connected to PD in any way since its a different studio working on it.

[Galactus]

Well the CGI movie will be its own thing and not connected to PD in any way since its a different studio working on it.

You know that how?

[IndigoErth]

I really hope this is entirely separate and not a replacement.

While I would not be sad if Nick/Paramount ever decided to ditch Platinum Dunes, at least for TMNT... I want my live action Turtles, dammit.

I prefer cartoons of them remain on tv, rather than in theater. The big screen is really the only place we can ever get live action, save for the crummy attempt of Next Mutation, so don't waste it by just choosing to do cartoons instead.

[TigerClaw]

You know that how?
For starters Michael Bay is not involved.

[Leo656]

I really hope this is entirely separate and not a replacement.

While I would not be sad if Nick/Paramount ever decided to ditch Platinum Dunes, at least for TMNT... I want my live action Turtles, dammit.

I prefer cartoons of them remain on tv, rather than in theater. The big screen is really the only place we can ever get live action, save for the crummy attempt of Next Mutation, so don't waste it by just choosing to do cartoons instead.

First we as a fanbase would have to collectively convince the franchise owners that we're not all 6 years old or the mental equivalent of same. That we deserve "real" movies capable of telling "real" stories and that we're not inclined to merely go along and settle for anything thrown at us.

You've been around here long enough to know how likely THAT is to ever happen.

[sdp]

It's clear they're not going to release two TMNT movies, so it's safe to say the live action one is cancelled, which is likely a good idea, let some time pass form the previous PD movies if it's not going to be a sequel to those.

[PizzaPower1985]

Wait! What's all this talk of a CGI TMNT? A possibly separate project from the new PD release? Please, somebody FILL ME IN, dammit!?!?!?!

[Andrew NDB]

Wait! What's all this talk of a CGI TMNT? A possibly separate project from the new PD release? Please, somebody FILL ME IN, dammit!?!?!?!

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=62764

[Leo656]

Trading Platinum Dunes for Seth Rogen is like trading The Clap for Chlamydia.

[TigerClaw]

you know. I would have love if Lord and Miller wrote and directed a live action TMNT movie.

[PizzaPower1985]

Seth Rogen and his little writer buddy DESTROYED one of my favorite pulp heroes in 2011 SO I doubt this is gonna be for me. They're not writing this new project but they are producing. They produced The Green Hornet in 2011 and it was as offensive to Hornet fans as Bay's TMNT films were to Mirage Turtle fans. I'm enough of a TMNT fan to be mildly curious but nobody in Hollywood can make the Turtle film I want.

All of you fans that wanna see more of the same knock yourselves out. Nick will screw it up and if they don't, I'll be surprised.

[Leo656]

You're right, that was pretty terrible. Why did they ever f*cking do that?

[PizzaPower1985]

You're right, that was pretty terrible. Why did they ever f*cking do that?

It was Rogen's attempt at action-comedy as he wanted to broaden his horizons as an actor. He also wanted to make a superhero film and my beloved Green Hornet was up for grabs. Rather than pay any attention to the gritty crime dramas that were the 1930's and 40's radio shows or the straight action show of the 60's they just went full tilt Rogen and made it what it was... an awful piece of $hit. The movie made no $$$ and rather than admit he didnt do research or didn't care about the character he just blamed the studio for its failure.

[Andrew NDB]

Seth Rogen and his little writer buddy DESTROYED one of my favorite pulp heroes in 2011 SO I doubt this is gonna be for me.

I guess that's fair. Though by the same stroke, just about every TMNT project besides TMNT 2012 to some extent "DESTROYS" the TMNT in my eyes, over and over again. Rogen and company make me laugh... if nothing else, maybe this is another project that "DESTROYS" the TMNT for me, but at least I can be reasonably sure I'll enjoy a few laughs while we're at it.

Though who knows.

[PizzaPower1985]

Yeah. I'm a fan so I legitimately wish every TMNT project well and hope for the best but outside of comics TMNT has a lousy track record of attempting to even give any credence to what E & L did. When either of the two creators have been extensively involved the TMNT have mostly shined. When they haven't been as hands on it's been disastrous.

[Leo656]

I guess that's fair. Though by the same stroke, just about every TMNT project besides TMNT 2012 to some extent "DESTROYS" the TMNT in my eyes, over and over again. Rogen and company make me laugh... if nothing else, maybe this is another project that "DESTROYS" the TMNT for me, but at least I can be reasonably sure I'll enjoy a few laughs while we're at it.

Though who knows.

I simply cannot fathom how a person can openly disdain marijuana yet still find anything of value in Seth Rogen. The math on that doesn't add up at all.

I smoke more than most people and I can't STAND that guy. But then again, I don't find most "comedies" to be funny, I generally find them too contrived and trying too hard. I know, nothing about me makes any sense.

But I think even Seth Rogen would be shocked to know that he has at least one big fan who doesn't smoke. I don't think he'd be able to make sense of it, either. :lol:

[IMJ]

I simply cannot fathom how a person can openly disdain marijuana yet still find anything of value in Seth Rogen

Some people say I sound like Seth Rogan. I hate it.

But I'm not so far gone that I won't admit that there might be a -hint- -hint- hint of truth in it.

[Leo656]

I know what you mean.

Some people tell me I resemble Shawn Michaels and then I have to dig another shallow grave. Maybe they're right but I'll be damned if I'm gonna take such slander lying down because I haaaaaate that guy.

[IndigoErth]

I guess we haven't heard anything about a PD film because they're more focused on "Songbird," a coronavirus pandemic film (tasteless and out of ideas?) that SAG now had to issue a "do not work" order on because they wanted to frigging make it now. :roll:

As if nearly everyone who is or will be emotionally exhausted over this whole thing (let alone the families who have suffered deaths from it) would even be interested in that. Why to focus on a completely transparent attempt to cash in on the pandemic.

So now that's forced to be on hold, maybe they can look at other things and at least let us know officially if the reboot we last heard about two years ago is still on the table or can we stop wondering and waiting to find out? :tconfuse:

[Leo656]

They're not going to announce that it's cancelled. That's typically not how things operate. For example, WB never formally said that a sequel to "Superman Returns" wasn't happening... and they still technically never said that it's not happening... but it's 15 years and a reboot later. When "Man of Steel" was announced, THAT was the announcement that it was safe to not keep holding one's breath for a SR sequel.

Studios don't like to make formal announcements of cancelled projects because it's bad business. It reeks of failure and makes people feel like the studio has no direction. They don't want to present themselves as weak or indecisive. It's just not wise business when the entire crux of marketing is making your audience think you don't make big mistakes.

Instead, one project gets quietly overtaken by another project, and the first project just kind of fades away. That's much more typical.

The key buzzwords for the CGI movie are, "next-level reinvention of the property". In other words... a reboot. The next PD movie - which never actually existed except as Hopeful Words - was also going to be a reboot. They're not going to do two reboots at once, it's not happening. Whatever was talked about as the next PD project is dead, whether they make a big formal announcement or not, and the CGI movie is going to be the one they do Instead Of That, not in addition to that.

There most likely isn't going to be another live-action TMNT movie for a long time. There's absolutely zero proof that they can earn back twice what it would cost, which is the bare minimum they'd accept. In a few years that might change, but right now the brand is very dormant. At the end of the day, the prospect of a live-action movie has every bit as much to do with whether or not the toys would sell, and both the movie toys AND the Rise toys didn't move the needle at all, with the movie toys doing much worse. If they don't think they can sell toys, they won't make the movie. And they're very sure they can't sell toys at retail, right now.

Look at it like this: To do a live action movie, they HAVE to spend at least $100 million. Afterwards, they need to make about $300 million or the whole thing goes back in the freezer. Right now, ANY TMNT movie would need a rocket up its ass to reach $300 million, and they know that. They lost money on the last movie, and they lost big on Rise; they're not going to take any chances until they know FOR SURE that there's profit to be made.

Thus, a nice, "safe" little CGI movie that they can make for cheap and almost certainly break even on. If they turn a profit - say, three or four times the budget - then we might get a live action reboot afterwards within the next three years or so. But not otherwise. The CGI movie is being made to keep the brand name out there and see if the winds are becoming more favorable anytime soon for a "real" movie. They know that right now, a "real" movie would die a death and they're not gonna put up another $200 mil after the last disaster, not unless they can make four or five hundred million back, and they can't, there's no way Right Now with how damaged the property is. They're stupid, but not THAT stupid. They gotta wait a little while for the stink to go away, first.

So yeah, no live action movie anytime soon. Not unless the CGI one does REALLY well, and even factoring that in... 2025, at the earliest. Just being realistic. But that's absolutely going to be the case.

[IndigoErth]

Mote total BS I'm sure? Sure sounds like it. But wanted to post because... I dunno, is it legal to toss these people off a cliff? False rumors are so stupid and pointless.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/spoilers-reportedly-villain-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reboot/

[AquaParade]

Mote total BS I'm sure? Sure sounds like it. But wanted to post because... I dunno, is it legal to toss these people off a cliff? False rumors are so stupid and pointless.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/spoilers-reportedly-villain-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-reboot/

I sincerely hope no one clicks this link. These are the biggest clickbaiters I've ever come across. Any rumor they share is 100% false unless it's being shared elsewhere first and they picked up on it.

I mean, do as you please, of course. But the rumor is false.

[CyberCubed]

I'm pretty sure this movie is dead. I don't see Platinum Dunes making a reboot.

[PizzaPower1985]

I'm pretty sure this movie is dead. I don't see Platinum Dunes making a reboot.

Are we completely sure nothing is happening with this? Is the Rogen project the only thing still happening or is that dead too?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

If Krang is the villain, there's a strong chance I won't see the movie

Call it petty, but it is what it is