The New Movie And Marketing
 

In the wake of the new movie's initial opening weekend success followed by box office numbers that declined far too fast for anyone's liking, I've had a lot of thoughts running around in my head about how the movie might have been even just a little more successful or, at least, more well-received.

If you're going to make a movie based on characters' comic book roots, a person should be able to walk into a comic book store and find those roots. I know Peter has no plans to reprint anything from Volume 1 canon before he can go and retone/reletter everything, but it would have been reallyreally smart business sense to have a reprint of Collected Book #1 readily available in every comic book shop, book store, AND Amazon.com at the time of the movie's release.

There are three existing editions of this book and all three of them have been selling on eBay for crazy prices that often breach $100 (and IMO only the hardcover version has been selling at a price fair to what it's actually worth). I know I would love to get at least two more copies of this book for myself (one to have as a personal reading copy and one to keep aside for my nephew until he gets old enough to read it), but I'm not willing to pay more than cover price. If someone who refuses to like a TMNT movie because Shredder and Krang aren't in it were able to walk into a Borders store and discover that Turtles didn't need recurring villians, some minds might be opened and some opinions might be changed.

As it is, the TPBs that Mirage has recently published aren't carried by any bookstores and CAN'T be ordered. I have a friend who works at B&N who tried to order them using the ISBN numbers, but the books weren't to be found in the system AT ALL. What's up with that? They're also not on Amazon.

One of the critic complaints I saw more than once for the movie was that it was just another mindless vehicle to sell action figures. Now, you and I know that's not (completely) true, but can you see any solid, actual evidence that that's not the case? There really aren't any products marketed for adults. And I don't even mean ultra-hardcore violent Turtles who swear and drink beer. Reprinting the old comic books would be a start, but I really think there could be a market for adult novels like there are for Star Trek and Star Wars, as well as several comic book properties and other media tie-ins.

I also think that there needs to be an "Ultimate Guide to:" book published by DK, like there is for every other comic book franchise that has had a movie in recent years. Foremost, I think a book that chronicles the history and evolution of the TMNT franchise is long overdue. But such a book would also be way for the casual fan to understand why Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady will never be seen in another new TMNT project.

And finally, there reallyreally needs to be a regular, on-going comic book that has the intention of at least trying to appeal to the masses. Make it it's own universe (I know, we really don't need more, but I can't think of how else it could work short of Peter wiping out Volume 4, and I don't see that happening), hire some NEW guys to work on it full-time, and publish it monthly. Dare I even say color?

I know a lot of people aren't happy with how WB marketed the film, but the more I think about it, the more I think Mirage could have helped them out a little more, too. And I know all of this is easiler said than done, and for all I know Mirage did consider ideas along these lines, but like the title says, I'm just throwing out some thoughts.

This would be a great start! When they were selling the novelization for the movie, it would have been excellent marketing to have the original comics in a stand next to the novels, with the (AND CHECK OUT THE COMICS THAT STARTED IT ALL!)

Or maybe people really did think this movie was going to be easy money.:(

Dreamwave was doing just that.

The Dreamwave series was based on the 2K3 series, lasted all of 7 issues, and was cancelled what, three years ago? How is this helpful in the here and now?

Thats why I said "was". It could have been good for the TMNT, it could have been the OT's Archie.

Ah, gotcha. I had actually hoped the same thing for that series.

All i have to say is that if TMNT was a marvel/dc property, we would be seeing reprints/tpbs , a lot of new comic stuff out the wazoo.

I have a feeling that Pete was either concentrated on the story/production aspects of the movie that maybe he thought(or other mirage bigwigs) that just doing a couple of prequel comics would be enough promotion.

Heck im not a newbie to tmnt and im upset lol. and i can tell you that my friends who always ask me about the comics dont want the hassle of ebayin/searching every comic store just to find some issues.

I fI were Laird, i would have made a dedicated online store a la amazon just for the various vol 1, 2 4 comics .
I would have just made 3 trades.
Trade 1-1-5, raph one shot
Trade 2= 6,7,9,10,11,leo issue
trade 3- return to ny, mike and don one shots
and had them available to all the major retailers before the film hit.

and if those did well, a city at war series of trades (2)

Along with some posters by Laird, dooney, Farley, Lawson, etc

I agree with rose's "ultimate guide to" . It should be done by Laird, Murphy , Dan Berger, or Ryan Brown

I guess it's all due to being an underground company.

Yeah, perhaps Mirage is too independent for its own good...

Makes me wonder if the comics even make any money, the TMNT have a fairly big following here at the 'Drome, but not everyone here is a comic buyer. Either they're still rich from all the money they made in the 90's, or TMNT comics are on a very low budget.

That's kind of along the lines of what I've been thinking. I love that they're a small (extremely small) company in charge of this world-famous franchise, but I don't think it'd hurt them to bring on a few more hands to open the door for more possibilities. I honestly think Peter is trying to do too much all by himself.

According to comments Peter made in the back of Volume 4, the comic was not making money. I don't know how the numbers are for Tales, but it seems to also have a low distribution rate.

Kinda off topic but why do I keep dreaming Marvel buys the rights to TMNT all month when I don't even read the comics? O_o

I think a problem with your theory is the comic sales have never been good since the "restart" in 2001.

In one of the letters pages of Volume 4, Peter Laird said the book never made a profit, but he continues to do it since its important to him. Dan Berger also said in an e-mail that Tales might also go on a "hiatus" of sorts after 2007 because apparently that book doesn't make much of a profit either. And I can see why they'd be losing more on a monthly book than Volume 4 which was bi-monthly.

As said, the Dreamwave series was cancelled after only 7 issues, presumedly because it wasn't selling and Dreamwave themselves were in financial trouble.

Technically I think ANOTHER "relaunch" of the comic is a bad move. Both Volume 4 and Tales showcase the Turtles as proper relaunches, but neither has sold all that well.

Lastly, the movie did poorly probably because of the poor reviews so people didn't go see it. Just check rottentomatoes, almost all the movie critics tore it apart. There's a VERY good chance that casual TMNT fans were going to see the movie but decided against it by the reviews. That's something a lot of people here haven't thought about.

The movie did not do poorly, it wasn't a blockbuster by any means, but I certainly think of it as a financial success.

Percentage wise, when comparing the production cost and profits reeped back, how well are the Turtles standing compared to Superman Returns? I'm not talking in the actual numbers, but by percentage of profits over production?

And the Turtles isn't considered another Waterworld either, right?

The movie cost 34 mil to make and right now they're at around 47mil in the box office, so they only made about 13mil in profit.

For reference the first movie made 135mil and the second movie made 88mil. The current movie may not even break 60mil at the rate its going.

Is this domestic or world?

Domestic, its only sales in the U.S.

I'm sure we'll get a sequeal. Has anyone seen House of The Dead? It's deem the most terrible horror movie,getting 0 (yes,zero) marks for reviews yet it still get a sequeal.

Yeah, and there is always the potential for the dvd to do well, especially if it has deleted scenes restored in it. And everyone knows Fantastic Four is getting a sequel since the dvd's sold so well!

Where there's a will, there's a way!

Thing is, whether you like Volume 4 or not (and no, let's not have that discussion here), it is not a series that a (non-hardcore fan) person can find, browse through, and decide to buy/check out. Can anyone honestly say they're surprised Volume 4 didn't sell well? Why not make a product with the effort to at least give it a chance to sell well?

I wasn't really thinking relaunch exactly, just a TMNT title that can show up in comic stores each month, actually LOOK like all the other comic books around it, and can quietly exist while TMNT interest waxes and wanes in the eyes of the general public. Then when another movie or other high-profile project comes around, people can actually go into a comic shop and find an interesting TMNT comic book that they jump into the middle of without being confused.

That is one of the biggest problems, TMNT is NOT readily available to the masses. It's so not a vehicle for seeling figs...the fig line isn't even that big! You got what? The turtles, sensei and human pals then antagonists and a couple playsets. And those silly rolly figs.
Comparing to the original movie's run and how many figs were out then, this is MINOR!

If they really wanted to make it work, those books they put out would have been displayed WITH the toyline not tucked away in the kiddie section hidden amongst other coloring books like I've seen. You have to place the product in the consumer's face, that is why it didn't work product wise. I saw the bedding stuff in a 4 sided display for what, a few days at walfart...it's gone now and the stuff's tucked away in the aisle.
If it were me, I would have displayed every piece of TMNT in my store(if I had one). Books, including comic reprints, bedding, figures, posters..hell I haven't seen ANY posters for sale in stores, anything I could get my hands on, I'd display it all together. That helps TMNT to work.

Now..look at all the Spiderman crap. It's OUT in the AISLES in HUGE quantities!!!!!!!! WTF!? Spiderman's getting craploads of attention, and the turtles got jacked bigtime.
Marketing sucks.

Maybe a relaunch, re-release of Kevin Eastman's book "TMNT Artobiography" could have been in order as well. Although I love the touch in the inner sleeve that has TMNT 4 ideas/sketches for a 5th turtle named Kirby (this was way before the idea of a CGI film).

But maybe somehow a re-release of the damn DVDs would have been in order....although they were New Line Cinema so :lol: that wouldn't happen. But at least people may shop in the store and go....'oh hey, i remember these guys.'

As to whether a sequel may get made or not....there are at least 5 Children of the Corn sequels and a Leprechaun in the Hood part 2 :o Plus Final Destination made about the same money ($50 million), with about the same budget, and now there's 3 of them. So I think it's all good.

Well, toy/product marketing is different from what I was thinking (just the opposite, really). I actually thought the toy marketing was decent, as the action figures were all at the front of the toy aisles of the major retailers and apparently have been selling very well.

Comparing to Spider-man isn't a really fair comparision as it is without doubt a muchmuch bigger franchise. That's a movie that's likely to make $100 million over opening weekend - a lot more companies are going to be willing to make a lot more product with a lot more visibility.

At least Kevin's artobiography is available on Amazon.com. :ohwell:

Yeah the toys where about the only thing that really helped market this movie if you ask me. Allot of stores even sold out before the movie came out.
And I'd like to make a comment about whats being said about a new on going color comic series of the tmnt...yeah I think it's needed would I buy it hell yes I would. But I'm a turtle nut I've got just about every turtle comic and don't plan to stop lol.
But I think it should sort of be like how Archie was taking 2k3 and making it into something even greater. But sadly it's really doubtfull that it would ever happen.
And I agree with whomever said Mirage is to underground for it's own good.
Peter also should really stand up for himself and his characters allot more when it comes to these big shot companies if he did I'm sure we'd have allot better things coming out.
I could just flip out probably about 100 great marketing ideas of the top of my head for comics, toys, direct to dvd toons etc. but hey it doesn't matter because I don't work for playmates or mirage as much as I'd love to.

WTF? why name a turtle kirby.. that's worse than Venus. (which atleast makes some sense)

^ Did Splinter name Venus and then send her away? Can't remember

Nah, I think she broke the Venus de Milo statue in the park during a "fight" and when they got home they decided to call her that, not a bad name considering its at least renaisance related. I think he real name was Mei Pi Chi.

Roseangelo, I couldn't agree with you more. Whilst I have been a lover of TMNT these past 20 years (oh Lordie has it really been that long... I'm sad), I had never read the comics. My interest in the TMNT comics is just recent and being ill recently allowed me to read the entire contents of the comic section on ninjaturtles.com. I loved reading everything and was discovering a new side of TMNT which I have never known and found myself really wanting to read certain issues in full. Of course, as far as I can find these are completely unobtainable.

My point is, that there are many areas of the market for 'new' fans, even the ones who have been fans for 20 years already, based on the old toon / films. Whilst my colleagues at work love to tease me for having a Raphael toy on my desk, none of them (especially the ones in thier 20s who remember the old toon) can resist picking him up and saying it's cool and reminiscing about their childhood. My second point is that I beleive we all have the little repressed ninja turtle fan inside of us waiting to break free, and the rerelease of the collected books (which I really want) would be a great way for Mirage to capitalise on that.

dude they named him kirby because of the fact that the reason kevin and peter both got into drawing in the first place is because of the legendary comic artist Jack Kirby.

I figured that, but it would be so out of place among the turtles.

I agree and I can't help but think of the pink fluffball from the Nintendo games when the name Kirby is brought up.

Yeah, my brain works similarly, coming up with endless marketing ideas for all of my different interests. If only I could convince someone to pay me to come up with those ideas. :trazz:

The uncertain future of these characters just... depresses me. I really wish Mirage or someone would tell us something.

Yeah it really is quite annoying I started out as more of a tmnt toy collector in my teens was a fan of the old toon and then the comics both archie and mirage.
I think they could make a killing of a couple differnt lines Do a classic mirage, classic cartoon, and maybe some other I really don't see what it would hurt I know Peter and the gang at mirage want people to forget about the characters and the way they acted in the old toon but I really don't see that going away any time soon so I'd say it's better to at least embrace it than to ignore it and act like it never existed.
So what exacly are the things you'd like to know?

Mostly what the hell is going on with the comic book(s) I guess. I don't have much hope for TV (although Space Usagi being confirmed for next season on FF is pretty cool). Does that really only leave us with a movie sequel to hope for? Which leaves my brain running over all the missed opportunities in my first post. If I knew there was a good reason why opportunites are being missed, I would feel better.

Well No ones gonna really be able to answere that question besides peter himself and we don't really have any way to contact him now that vol. 4 is on hold. Which figures it was actully started to get me interested what with mike training the Triceratons and what not.
I really pray that Tales doesn't get put on hold or cancled as well from what I last remember Tales of the tmnt had been selling better than vol.4 was.
It's sad but this isn't the first time this is happening though there's been years of missed opportunities if you ask me.
And trust me you're not the only one who's brain is running all over the place on this matter when I first heard lawson say all this stuff in that interview I was a bit shocked but honestly can't say I'm all that suprised.

Was thinking about this whole issue last night. It seems to me that throughout the history of screen based TMNT, they have been getting it wrong when trying to appeal to the masses. I'm thinking about 1987, making what started as quite a gritty series (Season 1) into cheese; the film franchise which lost its dark side when the studios started calling the shots from film 2 onwards (and Oh! how that descended into a pile of sh*t with film3); and now how the glorious 2k3 series being adapted into Fast Forward... I am still reeling from this and can't even comment anymore about how let down I am by this...

As such, I would like to set a challenge to Mirage to oversee a commercial exercise that improves rather than destroys the TMNT legacy. I have to say (and I know I am biased but I really believe this) that one of the ways to do this is to narrow the audience. Rather than make it for kids and adults at the same time, make it for adults. Pandering to the requirements of the younger audience is in my opinion what has killed each incarnation of TMNT. If they brought it up to the adult audience, they wouldn't alienate those who are not loyal die-hard fans. They would be able to incorporate a level of reality into it, expand on the darkness, examine the depth of the characters, allow the run time of a film to pass 90 mins, throw in some violence for good measure. Kids today aren't interested - they have plenty of whacky characters in thier living rooms day in and out - and to them the turtles are just names on a long list. This robs the turtles of what has made them so special for so many years.

Now that the new film has been made it has opened up the prospect of CG. The characters really shone through CGI and it really works for the feel of it. I hope they can take it places.

I don't think the future of TMNT is that uncertain. The comics will presumedly continue eventually since I doubt Peter Laird doesn't want to finish what he started. He did say in the letters section that while all loose ends may never be tied up, but that he does want to finish the plotlines he started, so I'm not worried about that.

I never expected the Tales series to last forever, I'm just extremely happy we got the 40ish issues of Tales we got. If Tales ends, we can admit it had a good run and tied up a lot of loose storylines from the comics over the years. Tales of the TMNT was certainly well done and if they need to cut their losses by limitng the amount of tales they do or stop for a while, then its not a big deal. We got plenty of good issues out of it so I can't say we didn't get treated well.

As for the cartoon, we know its still going on with the second season of FF and someone who saw Laird at a convention said that he wanted to wrap up FF and bring the boys back home. I would hope they continue where they left off but that's probably too far in the future (it'd be late 2008 ) to think about at the moment.

As for the toys, I would assume the second wave of movie toys will come out when the DVD is released and after that they'll release the second wave of Fast Forward figures (to fall in line with the new season) that they showed off over a year ago.

So yeah, that just leaves us wondering if there will be a movie sequal or not. Who knows, maybe its not all gloom and doom because it only made 50mil when they wanted 100mil. We'll see...

That thumbs down is there by mistake, I must have clicked it without realizing.

I've been thinking about the future of TMNT myself, the new movie was disappointing and bad reviews definitely put a lot of people off, as well as word of mouth.
When I went to see the movie for a second time, as the credits rolled, I could hear a guy behind me saying "that was s**t", so his friends probably wouldn't go near it after hearing his opinion.
To be honest I wouldn't go near it either, only for the fact that it was a Turtles movie, if the same story had been applied to new characters, it would be completely forgettable.

As for the comics, Tales has been kinda hit and miss, with silly characters like the Wild West Cowboys bringing the book back to an original toon level.
The prequel books were another disappointment, a missed opportunity if there ever was one.
The covers are both gorgeous and deceiving, with the inside artwork being a complete let down, no wonder they weren't marketed at a bigger level, people would be laughing at the amateur art.
I don't like the way Laird is re-inking the original books, the way VOL 1 was toned was superb, there was tones of detail and those Eastman and Laird issues had a real grittiness to them.

I too would like to see some new blood taking over the comic books, for them to be in colour and with a strong art and writing team.

Change is good, and is needed in my opinion.
If we do get a movie sequel I hope Kevin learns from his mistakes, or we get a new director/ script writer.

The Lawson interview had a large hand in bringing forth all of these frustrations for me.

I agree and disagree with you. I do think Mirage has to figure out who they're marketing to, because marketing to both isn't working. At the same time, I do really have strong feelings against making the franchise FOR adults. But I say that only because adding more violence and swear words for the sake of each is not what the TMNT is about and I think both of those things could easily go overboard if they suddenly started making everything FOR adults. BUT, go ahead and write stories that put them against greater odds, that have bigger consequences, where people do bleed when they get hurt, and occasionally there are reasons to let out a good swear word.

While Peter may have said these things, I'd feel a lot more confident if he would give current indication that this is still the case.

From what I understand, the possible hiatus (or cancellation... whatever) of Tales is not due to sales or lack of sales, but simply because Peter doesn't want to have Tales ongoing without Volume 4 beside it. And I think that's just stupid. Peter said he wasn't interested in making money with Volume 4; I would expect the same to hold true for Tales, so sales shouldn't be an issue at all.

I know someone said this, but I don't think it ever came from the person who actually talked to Laird. And exactly what convention did Peter go to in recent months? He wasn't at NY Comic-Con... I can't help but wonder how much truth there is in this statement. (Not that I doubt that this is what Peter wants, but it would add to my confidence that this might actually happen if it came from a solid source.)

Tales has been hit and miss, but I don't think it has anything to do with the occassional "silly" issue. I enjoy a little silliness now and then, but not all of the "serious" issues have worked well, and those are the ones that need to.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. Not only was the interior art lacking in general, but because they were tied-in to the movie, they really should have been in color. And these issues really needed to come out as originally planned. Three of them came out after the movie, which just totally destroyed the purpose of them in the first place.

Again, couldn't agree more. But I've rambled enough about that in other places...

While the movie definitely had its weaknesses, Kevin gets the Turtles. I would rather have him in charge again than some new guy who may or may not get the Turtles and may or may not be able to put together a decent story. I also think Kevin gets what did and didn't work with this movie, putting him in prime position to fix the stuff that didn't work in a sequel. It would also be a lot easier for him if he didn't have so many restraints placed on him by executives and ratings boards.