What is it about the TMNT that makes them so unappealing?
 

For too long now this question has been floating around my mind, and I really need to know. Why is it that when it comes to characters like Spider-Man and Transformers, people can say things like "Oh these guys are so cool" or "I can relate to them so much". But when it comes to the turtles, the best people can say is, "I remember them from that 80's cartoon".

The Turtles are treated as nothing but kid stuff, mainly because of the concept. But I never understood that, the concept is no goofier than Spidey's or Hulk's. The point is to look past the silly orgin, and enjoy the stories.

Another thing I've found is, people say they would like to see a more grown up TMNT, but when the TMNT try to deliver on that, all of a sudden, all of a sudden you got a bunch of people saying it's raping they're childhood. Alot of times, people don't really know what they want with TMNT. Some want it all goofy, some want it completley hardcore, and anything less is unacceptable.

I thought it could be that maybe the general public don't think the characters are relatable. That they're not socially relevant. But even that doesn't make sense. If people would just let down they're gaurds they would see that they can relate to at least one of the Turtles.

If you're somewhat of an older brother figure, someone that has to be resposnsible for others. Or just someone that strives hard for perfection, you can relate to Leonardo.

If you're generally easy going, you like to have fun, you avoid conflict, rarely get angry, and you have a strong creative side, you can relate to Michelangelo.

If you have a curios mind, or if someone who tends to get really wrapped up in your work, so much so that you sometimes inadvertantly alienate people close to you, you can relate to Donatello.

If you're the kind of peorson that tends to take other people's problems on your shoulder, and alot of times get frustrated that you can't do much to help. Or if you're a loner, who solves they're own problems alone and doesn't like asking for help, you can relate to Raphael.

But still, there's no law that states you have to relate to a character to like them. How many of us can honestly say we can relate to Batman, yet we still like the character.

People will say they have such fond memories of the Turtles, but when it came to TMNT, no one would even go see it They say that this movie is tainting they're childhoods, but how exactly? This movie had nothing to do the orginal cartoon. The people who loved the 60's Batman series didn't complain when Tim Burton made Batman back in 1990. Or maybe they did, I don't know. Point is, people looked past the differences and accepted the movie for what it was. Why couldn't people do the same with TMNT? All the idiots that said it wasn't goofy enough, are being totaly unfair. Why didn't anyone say the same about Superman, or Hellboy, or the Transformers.

If TMNT had gotten a PG-13 ratting, would that have changed people's tunes. I think it would, seeing as how the PG ratting Warner Bros forced upon the movie didn't help it one bit.

I'm posing this question to TMNT fans and non TMNT fans alike. I need to know, what is it that makes the TMNT so different that it can't be accepted like Spider-Man and Batman?

People can totally relate to the TMNT. There's one TMNT for each problem a teenager has to deal with.

Leo - Responsibility
Raph - Rage
Mikey - Fun*Maturing*
Don - Intelligence*Thinking out problems*

Everyone no matter who they are in their lifetime has had all 4 of those and most people are in a constant state of one of those.

The problem with the comics is people see them and if they haven't already read TMNT before think "Aw those are probably kiddy like the cartoon."

Which we both know the NEW cartoon isn't kiddy but most older people don't watch it or give it a chance. Even though it's more adult it still doesn't appeal to an adult, nor does it to a child. It's for teens in my opinion.

The new movie was to dark for a kids movie but not adult enough for older audiences. This caused problems. Also the comics sported the movie turtles and not what was inside, which in most cases a violent bloody issue.

The unappealing factor is what you said, people just view TMNT based on their 80's and 90's run and not on what it really is. The old toon is a slice of the TMNT cake and it may be a big slice but the whole rest of the cake proves to me that TMNT is very adult and should be taken as serious as any other comic series.

To be honest the old comics are some of the best drawn, and written comics I've ever read. People praise Marvel for what they do but I have to say TMNT stomps any Marvel or DC comics I've read. And I've read alot.

It IS that whole "raping my childhood" thing that holds people back. That is why it will never be what it should. Some people are so fond of their version of TMNT that they will not accept anything different. Some ONLY know the kiddy version and figure that is all it is....and will never give it a second thought.

The various marketing and licensing folks COULD do a better job of making sure people are aware of ALL the different universes / aspects / versions of TMNT....but they don't. so people are left to their memories. And by and far those memories are of something that was part of their CHILDHOOD.


Personally I think it's weak to refuse any other version of TMNT (or any show for that matter) because the one you saw in your kiddy years was your first taste of something.

I'm not old enough to say this first hand, but imagine if we were all old enough to have seen that cheesy 60's live action Batman show as our very first introduction to Batman.....then decided nothing would ever be better than that. Look at all the neat movies and shows we would have missed...not to mention getting into the cannon of it. (now...I'm not really a big fan of anything outside TMNT...but you get my point)

I'm totally over all the TMNT "fans" that came out of the woodwork for this movie...ignorant fans who know nothing of anything than faded memories of a show they have not seen in years....then act like they know all things TMNT and flame me for not hating the new movie because there was no Krang Shredder and Bebop and Rocksteady....

Ugh...I'll get off my soapbox now :cry:

I agree completely with that.

Since TMNT came into existence, it's become a lot of things. With the old cartoon, it leaned more to the goofy side. With the comics and new toon, it was more adultish, the comics being much more adult though. Those that can appreciate both the kiddy and the mature themes of TMNT, I believe, make the most loyal fans. And I don't think that should be so hard to do.

We have a winner.

Also Characters like Spidey, Batman etc have been around for several generations, and constantly had new things being released in the mainstream. If the TMNT can last, and stay in everyone's minds, for several more years it's possible that the TMNT can also be up there with our other beloved American Icons.

I'm pretty sure the TMNT can do it ;)

This is so true and I hate it.:evil:
I think that people don't take them seriously for many reasons and saddly one is because they are ninja Turtles. I've heard this so many times from alot of different people. Man I hate that.

How can you take a ninja Turtle seriously they say. It's a laughable concept.

But then I have to ask.. and what is so seriously cool about a car who transforms into a robot and has it's own life ? Is that better? Man that's even worse ( at least to me)

I still don't get it.

People tend to think of them as goofy animals for kids which is sad.

I totally agree.

The only way people are ever going to accept versions of the TMNT other than the 80s toon is if they're exposed to it. And right now Mirage is doing virtually nothing to expose anyone to that darker, more adult side of the TMNT. They're not even printing Tales of the TMNT in quantities high enough to fill orders. Number 32 is sold out on ninjaturtles.com and my comic shop never even got it in. My comic guy doesn't even believe me when I tell him that it's actually be published.

All those Marvel and DC characters exist on two tiers: for the kids and for the adults. Right now TMNT only exists for kids and it's hard to have staying power when you only target kids who are prone to change their minds and interests at the drop of a dime. Give them something of more substance when they get a little older and you can hook 'em for life.

right, given enough time i'm sure tmnt can get up there. the OT is what most people remember of tmnt and though it doesn't really match up to the depth of the comics, most people'd hardly be swayed to believe otherwise. they also don't really care to find out for themselves, lol. 20 years from now, when people talk about the tmnt, they might be talking about a totally different thing than the 80s OT...kinda cool to think about.

My guess is that they became such a big thing in such a short time that they were EVERYWHERE for a few years and then people got sick of them. It happens to everything that suddenly gets popular quickly and then eventually dies off. People associate it with that period of time and then it becomes uncool. It happens with other tv shows, power rangers and such, in music you have Alanis Morissette, in movies you have various actors. The only show I can think of offhand that was able to retain its popularity after going thru incredible overnight popularity was the Simpsons.
I guess if they hadn't made the movies and probably to an extent, the tv show so present-day oriented (you can totally tell they're from the late 80s/early 90s) and Michaelangelo's surfer talk doesn't help.
But I still proudly say that my favourite tv show is the original ninja turtles cartoon! I rarely get any negative comments about them either although to reiterate the first post, people often say "I loved that show when I was a kid" or "I haven't seen it in years".

That's true. They should put the OT on re-runs alongside with the 2k3 and FF.

Well put. While I agree that it is annoying when people refuse to see the new movie because it's not what they remember, those who attack the original cartoon over it certainly aren't helping any either (referring to TMNT fans in general, not people who have posted in this thread, who have been respectful so far :) ). I think it's important to realize that both the serious TMNT universes and the goofy ones have brought something to the plate and have gotten the TMNT this far, so even if fans of one don't like the other, they should at least be tolerant.

i had a camp counselor tell me they weren't gonna see it cos they thought it would be just some cartoon. I hope I changed their mind after telling them yeah it's CGI but NO it's no corny cartoon, it's dark and wonderful like TMNT1.

Sometimes it feels like TMNT is dying all over again...no advertising being done, no more cool toys or household stuff made, like Roseangelo says, comics can't even be filled cos they're not making enough...now the movie's done and almost gone, they haven't bothered to tie up the current V4 story or given us any clues to it. I feels like they don't care IMO...I hope I'm way wrong.
I've run out of Raph things to collect! I'm going retro now with old figs to add!

That whole "raping my childhood" seems to be the major thing holding back the TMNT for many fans of the 80's cartoon. I freely admit that in the beginning, I didn't want to watch 2k3 TMNT because it wasn't what I remembered from my childhood:o But my younger cousin convinced me that I should give it try, so I did. After deciding just like many people, my TMNT had to change & once I accepted the 80's were over :P I really fell into the new series, hardcore. I bought some of the DVD's to catch up and kicked myself in the butt for not giving it a chance in the first place.

80's TMNT will always be my fav no matter how many people make fun of me, but it's time we TMNT fans (not the peeps in the 'Drome as we are all open-minded:) ) opened our minds & let the TMNT keep evolving. When it comes down to it, each of the turtles still imbodies what we loved about them when we first met them.

You all seem a few years older than me. I know I grew up watching the 87 series, and I remember Krang and the Technodrome and the theme song -- but that's it. I can't remember what the show was like. This means I don't know how kiddie it was. I think there's hope for TMNT yet, as the generation that can barely remember the old toon grow up. Yes, some people will always prefer that, but that's human nature. I think most people my age and younger aren't going to be as tied to the old toon and their TMNT experience will focus more on the new toon and the 4 movies. I don't think the comics are going to be a huge factor, aside from adaptations in the movies or shows, due to their limited availability.

I think another reason the comics won't count as much is the number of comics. The first 4 volumes have ~126 issues. I'm not sure if that's counting the single issue individual turtles issues. All in all, I count at least 287 TMNT comics, and 23 of those apparently don't count for continuity. The comics were only 3 years old when they got a series, too. All of about 20 issues of some form of TMNT had been published by the time the toon started -- and probably even less when you consider pre-production time. The old toon can't really be blamed for not following the comics -- there would only be so many stories that could be pulled from that number of comics.

For comparison, just Uncanny X-Men has 475+ issues, but it is 20 years older, and didn't even get a series until it was almost 30 years old.

Other comic books had time to grow and develop before anything was made out of them. TMNT didn't get to do much of that. I don't think it's fair to compare it to other comic book-based series and movies for those reasons. It didn't get to have much of a comic book life before it moved into other media.

not only have a lot of 20-30 year olds not give the movie a chance, they never gave the new cartoon a chance. The turtles didn't have pupils, they were drawn funny (aka different than 87 designs), the show was changed (aka different story), so they don't know that the 2k3 turtles could be enjoyed by adults. They think it is a kids property. Whereas Batman, spiderman, etc. has lasted several generations, and will continue lasting, i'm sure a lot of non-turtles fans think the turtles are only back because we are in an "80's fad". The movie got criticized for not being silly/funny enough by some, and not being violent enough by others. Some thought it was raping their childhood, because, maybe, they wanted a silly movie. Whereas most of the people here wanted a more violent adult version. If this movie was pg-13, maybe people would believe that adults would like it. Maybe, the fact that batman is enjoyed by kids, teenagers, and adults makes a difference. Kevin M. himself even said that this movie is being marketed to 18-25 year olds, and 7-11 year olds. This excludes the teenagers. Since batman applies to all ages, adults can like it (in people's minds), but since people aren't aware that tmnt can be for adults, and it isn't for teenagers, all that's left in their mind is a kid's franchise.

sorry, i think that post made a lot more sense in my head, my post is kinda all over the place

It made sense to me. Although, looking at how disjointed my previous post was, that may not mean much. ;-)

What did today's teenagers have related to TMNT when they were younger? A 16 year old would have been born in 1991 -- by the time they're 5, it's 1996 and the original toon isn't on the air. The next mutation was on for a year, so that can hardly count for much. It wasn't until 2003 that the new series started, and they would have been 12. That's a bit late to be building childhood memories.

It's a shame really that there is a mentality out there that TMNT should be like the 1987 toon or not at all, and equally that it should be like 2k3 and that the 1987 toon was rubbish. Both toons have their part to play in TMNT history and I for one really love them both - for very different reasons.

But the main thing is that even if the film was not a huge blockbuster, it resonated with both fans of 1987 and 2k3, the films and comics and maintains a loyal fanbase (us!) and that's a lot better than a lot of films out there.

right on, jenna...very well said.

The turtles have been tagged as a cute children's project. I think that's what makes them unappealing to those who are not already fans.

I love the OT and what it did for the franchise but it's because of the sillyness of the OT that people have come to refer to the turtles as cute.

Excellent! I agree and couldn't have said it better!

Over the years, I've observed a couple of things, based on my own POV, as limited as it is at times, but a POV nonetheless. It isn't a judgment either, but only an observation:

One, there's a lack of consistency in developing and promoting the TMNT after the inital Turtlemania surge.
Two, there are often marked conflicts of interest among the ranks.

Marvel and DC are much more organized, widespread and have a bigger publishing base than ever.
Mirage has become smaller than it was in its heyday in the late 80s.
Marvel and DC have huge booths at the Comic-Con. Mirage isn't even represented there at all.

Kevin and Peter, as you know, went their separate ways.
Kevin is present at the Comic-Con, has a booth with his magazine Heavy Metal, and enthusiastically meets with the fans. He's outgoing, congenial, and friendly. He travels.
Peter, OTOH, I don't know what he is like in person, but in comparison, he doesn't get out much. He doesn't travel, or go to many conventions, except relatively local ones on the East Coast. He doesn't seem to be the type of person who wants to widely promote things at least in a big way like Marvel and DC do. It just seems to be a pet project he will keep going until he's unable to continue.

There were projects with other publishers, such as Archie, Image, Dreamwave, and such, but the projects get canned before they are completed. A lot of stories didn't get finished.

I don't know if that's as much of a problem as Marvel, or DC, but with Mirage, it seems to be a problem for them.

While the movie was a great leap of faith, and a worthy endeavor, it wasn't enough to offset the other drawbacks that Mirage has been dealing with. It isn't enough to keep things going unless there's new blood infused into an anemic company.

Makes me sad, because TMNT is such a beautiful concept... :(

I forgot who said this but, they were right, TMNT just became too big. I guess Peter is still playing very humble. He cares about the comic, and just want's to do that.

As for the lack of Con appearences, I think Peter has a fear of flying or soemthing. Which could exlain why he wasn't there for the preimere of TMNT.

Ah yeah, he doesn't like airplanes. I remember him mentioning that once upon a time. Like I said, it's not a judgement, but there's a lot that is lacking if one wants to maintain that superstardom the TMNT once had.

Personally, I don't mind if Mirage stays small, if they produce quality stories, quality art, and keep the integrity of the characters. That is what attracted me to the TMNT world in the first place.
I've been keeping up my hopes, I keep buying the comics, but often I'm disappointed. I pre-order my comics, so to be fair to the comic shop, I have to buy them if I ordered them, and if I'm not going to be getting my money's worth, I may give up on ordering any more of them in the future.
Jury's still out on the movie adaptation, haven't had the chance to look at it closely.

There are a lot of good points here,
I know sometimes I go into a shop and this has been over a long time, and certain retailers don't even carry TMNT.
The fact is they are still around and in the last 4 years there have been 2K3, FF and a new film so I can't complain too much.
I just hope they keep going and maybe we will get lucky enough to see them stronger. I do see kids liking them. I see it everyday at the school I work with and children's entertainment is huge!

I would never say unappealing but maybe just overshadowed...?

It's not difficult to relate to the turtles as they behave almost exactly like human beings (if real human beings could be superninjas...). (EDIT: Okay, on second thought, that might be an invalid statement as I'm only assuming based on my own ease of relating to them, maybe for most adults it's asking too much to relate to talking animals?).

However, culturally speaking talking animals are kiddie properties (here in the west at least). Spiderman and the likes however are more like teenage properties and therefore more acceptable to adults as teenagers are essentially very young adults.

In cinematic history, comic book adaptations of heroes everyone knows about combined with a big dose of "real life" and brilliant special effects have been established as a genre to be enjoyed by adults.

However this acceptance can be regarded much as a cinematic phenomenon rather than a general one. Obsessing about superhero movies or spiderman movies for an adult is fairly acceptable but adults obsessing about superhero comics and spiderman comics are begging to be made fun of.

TMNT however are talking animals. And the OT imprinted on the mind of everyone that it's only for kids. However, even if we take the OT fad out of the equation, TMNT would still have a problem to establish itself in the cinematic genre aforementioned because they're talking animals. X-men, Spider-man, Superman, Batman... they're not about talking animals!

Okay the 1990 movie did great so it might sound like I'm talking rubbish, however the 1990 movie was successful as a kiddies movie not as an adult movie. In fact, had the original movie been released without the OT ever happening I believe it would have been nowhere near a big success. Besides, as good as the 1990 movie looked, it still only looked like men in costumes. That screams "kiddies" to adults. The big superhero movies that do well all have in common that they look fantastic. It's a requirement for any superhero movie wanting to be taken serious.

I don't really see what makes TMNT any more ridiculous than other superheros. So they're talking animals, big whoop. If people really look at it, the Turtles are the most human out of all these other characters.

It's like what Dr. King said, we should be judged by the contents of character, the same should apply for 5 foot tall, talking turtles, that know ninjutsu.

"I don't really see what makes TMNT any more ridiculous than other superheros. So they're talking animals, big whoop. If people really look at it, the Turtles are the most human out of all these other characters."

Maybe that's it? The fact that you and I are able to see giant talking Turtles as the most human out of many popular comic characters maybe says a lot more about our freaky nature than we realize? :D Shouldn't it be more natural to view characters like Spiderman and Batman as more human than TMNT seeing as they ARE much more human than the TMNT can ever hope to be? :D

Actually it's sort of funny we're calling them so human considering they are not human, don't look human, don't view themselves as humans, have on several occasions indicated a dislike torwards humans and depending on their mood, would be so insulted by such a statement as to put us in our place for thinking the universe revolves around human beings at its center.

I think there's a lot to be said for that. It takes someone of a certain imagination to be able to appreciate the turtles. I think it's no coincidence that most TMNT fans found their love of the turtles during their childhood, when imagination is limitless.

It's clever work from the creators who made the characters so believable. They are very relatable and all very complex. The difference between batman / spideman and the turtles in my opinion is that whilst they are conflicted individuals, they are by no stretch as complex as each of the turtles and suffer from 2-dimensionalism.

The other thing we have to remember, is that those of us who did jump on the TMNT bandwagon during the 80s have established our own "relationship" with the characters that is now 20 years old. We have been relating to them this long.

A friend of mine watched an episode of the NT and commented that "Raphael is just a nasty piece of work" and this made me realise that one episode is just a snapshot of a history that has been built up and the universe is huge, and each little incarnation scratches a surface of the character, but cannot possibly go into all the details. Therefore, the characters seem so much more real to those of us who have known them all this time. We were there when Shredder kidnapped Michelangelo, when Ninjara broke Raphael's heart, when Leo sat by Raph unconscious in the bath tub, when Don got fed up of the hurt feelings from being ridiculed by his brothers and went off on his own, and when the leach sucked all of Raph's mutagen away and he bacame a normal turtle again. We went through it all with them in a way...

That's my theory anyway :D

When was that?

OT Beyond the Donatello Nebula. They all were laughing at him so he stormed off.

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to post, and I wrote a blog entry back in November that touched on this and on TMNT's longevity.

The big question concerning their longevity, in my opinion, is "What will happen to the TMNT when Peter Laird passes away or retires?"

I think there are some important points that have been made here. TMNT it still a very young franchise compared to Spidey, Batman, Supes, etc. 2k3 and the new movie have proven to me that TMNT is not just a one time phenonenon and does have the staying power of other popular superheroes as well. And that exites me to no end. The real question as GordonUniveese said is what happens when Peter is gone, but other heroes outlive their creators so I'm sure someone will pick up the slack. Maybe one of the big two will aquire the rights from pete's estate, who knows?

As for those who only say they remember the old cartoon it's a complement I think. Again, what else could they know? TMNT isn't that old. The comics are independant not mainstream. And I bet that just as many remember the first movie or two which were very well recieved at the box office. TMNT is a very flexible in it's concept and that's a very good thing. It can be young and funny like the old toon or dark and serious like Mirage, or something inbetween for both audiences like the first movie or new toon or new movie, which is not an easy thing to do. The franchise has also realized it's limits over the years in what constitutes going too far (TNM and Image on opposite ends of the spectrum).

The thing to realize as you get older is that your favorite franchise will usually be marketed young than you think it should. But many remeber the first two movies fondly as well. TMNT is not dying. TMNT may go into hiatus again when FF is done and if there are no movie sequels, but we survived from 1998 to 2002 a good 5 years with no show and many thought TMNT was done with. The bottom line is TMNT will always come back in some form. You just have to be patient and when it does come back, we will be there ready to welcome TMNT back with open arms (or to tear it to shreads) becuase that's what fans do.;)

And don't talk to me about the 'raping of childhood.' TMNT fans have nothing on Transformers fans. You have no idea what that phrase truly means until you read your umpteenth thread on a Transformers news board about the new movie and Michael Bay.;) TMNT fans are so lucky that our franchise is based on a comic and not on a toy line which means that the fab four will never be killed off or replaced in favor of characters we have never seen or heard of before.

The way I see it, we all grew, so why shouldnt the Turtles, the old toon was great, and the new toon is great in a different way, to me its not raping or even changing so much as evolving with the years, the brothers simply grew up there not as goofy as they(and we) were at that age.
As far as the concept of talking animals being kiddy, hell all through history different cultures have written about, spoken of, and even worshipped personified animals.
I admit I was skeptical of the 2k3 toon at first, but after seeing most of the episodes, and watching the new movie(ALOT!) I feel the same fanboyish ferver I had as a child for the franchise.
Tho the whole fast forward thing still bugs me, just miss seeing April, Casey, and all the other characters.



PS, I just gotta say as a newer member to the Drome, its great that when I got back into em, theres still a place like this to talk of all the wonderful memories past, and to be made in the future as well, you guys rock.

Very profound words. I like this approach very much. :)

Very well said.

In regards to the future of the book after PL dies. I totally understand if he wants the book to end with him, but, I would like to see him pass the franchise to trustworthy guys when it comes down to that. It would be cool to see the TMNT in the safe hands of the rest of the Mirage crew. Or guys like Tristan Jones, Diego Jourdan, Andres Ponce, Jake Black, and the rest of the freelancers.

Spider-Man is old and established and has gone through several generations of kids now. Same for all the others. TMNT has only gone through one generation: us. Give it ten years and see if they don't pull the same respect as the older ones.

In general, most people are no deeper than spit.
Mickey Mouse is a talking animal. in fact, there are a lot of widely accepted talking animals. In cartoons, on cereal boxes...but those are cuddly. Usually mammals, or birds that posess an obnoxiously obvious degree of cute.

Most people believe themselves to be above animals.
Splinter and the boys are not animals with good reputations. Meaning, these creatures generally do not prompt snuggle time among the ignorant masses.
Turtles in general are well liked enough I suppose. However, people are still going to come back to that "slimy reptile" mindset. Turtle as a symbol is commonly associated with things like "slow" and "coward".

Don't even get me started on people's misconceptions of rats. *waves a Rat King pennant* Both species are associated with disease. I go to the local exotic pet place, and there are big posters basically saying, if you make out with your turtle, you'll get salmanella....which has prompted many nasty (but funny) jokes about Ava :P
Coincidently, I was told the same thing about eating raw cookie dough, and it doesn't stop me *cough* >.>

They are not naive good boys from Smallville. They are not swinging around the city trying to win true love. they are not rich...they do NOT have a ****ing mansion, or a cool turtle cave. They live in the ****ing sewer.

Ninjas (although as glorified as pirates, and often associated with being "cool") are also commonly portrayed as villains. Assassins. Thieves. That means...they kill people. People die. Dying=bad. I don't remember anyone dying in the OT. I don't remember them doing anything that might offend anyone, or even make them think...and if you tried to think, something might click, snap, and ...boing.

This is kinda where the major conflict between OT and NT come in for me. NT has stepped away from the kiddie mindset...BECAUSE THEY KNOW HOW OLD WE ARE NOW! Still, NT seems to numb emotions toward death of all things (*cough* Hey Don, we've only got thirty minutes here. "Oh my poor brothers..." Well...I guess I'll finally have some time alone to work on my inventions. >.>)

It's really ironic that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles can be more "real" than some people can handle.
The only real "reason" I ever had for not wanting to watch 2k3, was 4kids. I got over that quickly, and as much as I love OT, if they'd done it the same way now, I would have probably lost interest. (In the show...not in my boys ^_~)

As some of you may have noticed, I snorted the fine line between goofy, and edgy early on in life. That made Mikey, and Raph forget what they were fighting about, and go get some pizza.

My point is...most people are shallow. Most people will always judge a book by it's cover. Everyone here is biased, but I firmly believe these are characters you have to know to appreciate.

Unfortunately, you can be the most open minded, accepting person in the world, and it doesn't make your money worth more.

Woah. Ava, jenna, and Time Mistress ... great poignant speeches, gals!

I gotta ask, though ... do you people really think that the Turtles have more complex personalities than, say, Batman or Spider-man or Wolverine or other superhero characters? I mean, people adore those guys for a reason. I don' actually read other comics besides TMNT, so I don't know. But are the Turtles really more "human" than those guys??

More than Batman maybe. I'd say they work more along the lines of the Fantastic Four. You can't really get more human than Spider-Man.

Roo, I could compare those three to the turtles easily. Some of them have things BLATANTLY obviously in common with...*glares at her own grammar* ahem.

Batman is a very complex character. I can see aspects of each of the boys in him. The science, the honor code, the rage, the playboy...and yet to me personally, it all seems fake...and I AM a fan of Batman, though I don't relate to him at all. He doesn't even have super powers (despite what my new rpg book says ~_~) and he really doesn't seem human to me at all. He's not a believable character in the slightest, and I know some people are going to think I fell off my cracker saying TMNT are believable, but hell, I sometimes forget they're NOT REAL! I just don't feel emotions for Batman. Well...I kinda feel warm and fuzzy when he embarasses Superman. I hate Superman.

I don't think Wolvie and Raph could be more obvious...HOWEVER I'm going to have to disqualify him on account of being a mutant too :P
I like Wolverine. I really do. He's not in my favorites, but I don't hate him and want him to die like the marauders! >.> (note: Most of my Marvel knowledge is a very biased personal opinion from an ongoing Marvel Superheroes campaign I've been involved with for EIGHT FREAKIN' YEARS!...damn marauders.)

I'm embarassingly enough not that familiar with Spider-man. *points at self with an accusing finger* Bad spider lady! I only officially saw the first movie...but his personality reminds me a LOT of Donatello. What I have seen/read of him, I would have to agree with Spawn Guy. He's probably the most human of any of the other superheroes mentioned.

Umm...slightly off topic I think >.>...I don't really know anything about The Incredible Hulk, but I've kinda noticed something going on with NT Leatherhead there...


I really don't think I'm the one to ask these questions though.
I'm not terribly into the superhero thing. I don't think of the boys as superheroes...though I'm not sure what I'd classify them as. People look a me like I'm such a dork when I go on about how much TMNT has influenced my life. It was a passion that never died down. My first love. And to think I was pissed that they cancelled Dinosaucers, and put these turtles on my tv. HA!
I am not a fan of comic books in general. This could be because I wasn't really exposed to them until I met my husband...who said "Here, read age of apocalypse!" I don't know why that man is still alive. After years of trauma, and Marvel roleplaying (with a character closely related to the Morlocks) I thought I'd try it again...so he got me mutant massacre ~_~
I heard evil things about TMNT comics, so with that being said, if anyone ever tried to give me one, I think it'd go up real pretty in my future outdoor fireplace.

I had a point...I think. I think my point turned into ranting. Personally, I do think the turtles are more "human" than most of those other guys. Or maybe, I'm just a lot less human.

Squeak.