Old Series Was Better
 

I watched the new series and I was disappointed and happy at the same time. I was glad to see Ninja Turtles back on air. However, The new Ninja Turtle series is an excellent series by today's low standards and is truly good for a cartoon in any time, but the fact is the old series was better. Although many people are fans of the comic here which is popular the Ninja Turtles mass popularity and the reason I even knew about them was the cartoon. The problem with the new series is they have made the mistake of using the comics and saying that is what Ninja Turtles is. The fact is the Ninja Turtles most people love and enjoy aren't the ones from the comics, but rather the old cartoon show.


The first problem I would like to point out is the animation. It is very good by today's standards but compare it to the old series and you will see it is no where near as detailed. The fact is the new animation is popular because it is cheaper to make. Each scene is much less detailed which takes less time to draw and less time to color. It is still good compared to many other shows, but it isn't as good as the old series.

The next problem is the fact that the series have taken such a serious approach. I read up it was because it is believed kids want more serious characters now a days. I have no idea who thought that up, because in case no one has noticed the popular cartoons of late have some of the least serious characters ever. I mean how serious looking or acting our Pokemon? And Kirby is supposedly doing quite well and I don't find much serious about a pink puffball. The thing that made the first series the huge success it was was that it was not so serious. Instead it was always funny and packed with action. In the new series the turtles are still funny, but Shredder doesn't seem to be. It was always funny to see him being bossed around by Krang and to have him pick on Bebop and Rocksteady. Now, only half of the fun is there in the new series.

Finally the last major problem is the change. Change isnt' always better. I mean remember the Spider-Man storyline where Ben Reilly turned up to be the real Spider-man and no one liked it. That wasn't even near as big a deal as what they have done with the new Ninja Turtle series, getting rid of like half the characters people have enjoyed in the past and drastically changing the other half. I mean, the fact that the turtles were fighting an alien invasion made the other series exciting. Now they are just fighting evil robbers and ninjas.

That is the main problems with the new series. Just to make sure I don't sound too negative I want to say once again that the new series is the best cartoon series I have seen in a while so far, but the fact is it falls short of the old series and I see no reason to fool with something that isn't broken. I mean even when the old Ninja Turtles went off air on CBS and CBS switched to educational programming they were still getting excellent ratings. It showed that the Turtles had staying power. They weren't some two bit fad like Pokemon. They were popular all the way through. Now, the new series is a risk. My theory is the real villian is Fox though. They are just cheap. They complain about how kids don't watch cartoons as much anymore and then you look and see what there is and it is just no wonder. Even kids can see most of what is on today is junk. Fox wouldn't keep the live action Ninja Turtle series because it costed too much even though it got good ratings. It is only logical to assume that Fox is just as cheap today and that each Ninja Turtle episode also doesn't have the budget it deserves. Anyway, just one more time I want to say the series is still great, just far from being equivalent to the old series. I will be watching it next Saturday and I can only hope that in the next season Krang, Rocksteady, and Bebop show up.

Thanks for reading,

Nate

I'd just like to say that Karpo and the rest are going to tear you into little pieces in due time. I'd run while you still can.

About that last comment: dude, it's the first episode! Why would you expect to see the TMNT in an alien invasion in the first episode?

I like the animation and color. Its a lot better than the old toon. I like more serious cartoons, fighting evil aliens and stuff every episode gets old. But fighting gangs and ninjas and makes a better cartoon. Shredder is how he should be serious, not the whiny guy has was in the old toon. By the way Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady won't show up if there is another season, so you can stop hoping :lol: :lol: :lol: (the way the the toon should be :D )

I'm diggin' the new show, although I enjoyed the old show when it was on, I'd have to say that it was the first movie that really made me a fan, during kindergarden I must have watched that movie at least 3 or 4 times a week! So the darker, more ninja-like Turtles are natuarally real appealing to me,

Just a couple of things... I'll throw in my two cents.

I believe that 4 Kids bought the morning block from Fox, so I don't know how much influence Fox has on the new show. I'm pretty sure 4 Kids has more pull on what gets shown on Saturday mornings.

Also, I can understand why old cartoon fans would be upset. It's a drastic change from what we all grew up with. But you have to realize that we're no longer in the target audience. This new show is aimed at a new generation of turtle fans, not us. We're just here for the ride. If they were targeting our age group, there wouldn't be sweepstakes about "Name that Turtle" or "Match the Turtle with his mask and weapon" because that's common knowledge for us. And you've gotta be 18 or under just to enter. ;) I'm pleased with the new show, and hopefully, it'll become as legendary as the old one.

I don't wanna see any flame wars. Share your opinions, but please do not attack any posters. This is just a general statement, and not aimed at anyone in particular. Thanks. :)

You must all accept the fact that the TMNT started as a comic. The toon made it a cultural icon.

I'm sorry you are disapointed with the new cartoon. You can always download the old episodes and watch them on Saturdays!

Nate, I think its a bit premature to make a judgement over whether or not the new or old show are better. From what I've seen so far though, I'm shocked you'd consider the old show to be MORE detailed in animation than this one.

Re: Old Series Was Better
 

I'll add my opinions as it goes. I don't mean to slam you too hard, just counter your points ;).

If they dident take the time to look in to the comics that would be their problem, NOT Mirage's. So far the responses I've heard from kids at my local card leauges is that the cartoon rocks, and is the best they have ever seen, so I don't see how them being based on Mirage's comics is a bad thing.


And the old show having too many coloring mistakes to count is quality work then? The new animation has more fluid movements, sharper color and seperation between those colors, and has a STYLE. I'm an art student. Style is important in anything that involves creativity, cartoons included.

Actually, it had much more humor in this one episode than the first season of the old toon. Jokes were going off ever few minutes (check out the main discussion board). And yeah, most kids DO want a more serious cartoon. Why do you think DBZ is so high in raitings? And Shredder never was meant to be funny. He was supposed to be a serious villian, and thats what he is now.

They got rid of the other characters because this is a NEW universe for them. The other half diden't get changed... they simply used the ORIGINAL characters that Laird and Eastman created. In the first cartoon, the characters were seperated by their catch phrases, in this one it actually seems like there are 4 diffrent turtles instead of 4 of the same one with a diffrent mask and weapon.

And evil robbers and ninjas can't be exciting? like its been said on here already, this was only the first episode. No one really know just how its going to be like.

If it wasn't broken, why did it go off air? :-?

Pokemon is still going strong in Japan btw, where Ruby and Sahpire were the 2 best selling games of 2002, with only 2 months to sell copies. i hardly call that a "two bit fad".

As far as I've heard, 4Kids are the people in charge of production, not Fox. 4Kids bought air time and needed a cartoon to fill the 30 min block, and Mirage wanted a new cartoon, and it all just fit.

No problem :). Again, sorry if this was a little harsh, it wasn't meant to be.

I think a lot of people are quick to say that the past was better. I'm sure sometimes it is. I wish I was six years old again and watching the old ninja turtles before everyone went and died, but "Things Change", you know?

The animation? Sure, it's a leap from the olden days. The turtles look so cute anymore. Aww. I think it's just the style of today, all the cartoons are like that now and it's not that bad. It's a little bit more edgy, I feel. Sure, the backgrounds (like in Jacky Chan Adventures) are pretty lacking and sketchy at times, but it's not too bad. It's nice and I think it adds to the over all feel of the show. The old style was great too, I loved it, but "Things Change", right?

I like how it's more action and adventure based but still maintaining some good comedy bits. If that's what makes it more like the comic book, then I hope they keep it up! I mean, sure, it's nice to have a laughs but boys will be boys and boys (and girls) love ass kicking turtles. Am I right? I hope so, damit. This series seems to be a bit more serious, but it's nice for a change.

One minor note is that we should all be very glad we don't see Splinter shouting "Leonardo, I choose you!" and throwing out a Turtle-Ball to duel the Shredder. I hope somethings don't change.

Re: Old Series Was Better
 

No, you didn't. You watched one episode of the new series. And, in any case, the first episode of the old series goes to show how different the show became over the months and years.

But, in this case, its back to its roots, as are the movies and the new Mirage comics. So, most likely, this series will continue to be close to this episode we just saw, and not like the old cartoon that broke away from the roots.

You're entitled to your opinion, however, which is cool :)
Just, reserve your judgment until we have more to go on :P

Well, the old cartoon was as Peter Laird said was comedy with some action and the new one is action with some comedy. I really love both. They both have their ups and downs of course but I also think its too early to draw to any conclusions.
However I think the old cartoon was focused on humor because the idea of these four huge teenage turtles in New York living in the sewers that know Ninjitsu and fight evil is a perfect setting for a comedy type show! The turtles were originally a joke, Peter and Kevin never expected to make such a hit, the whole serious side of the comics was a kind of parody off of bigger comic series. Of course that changed later on but still I give equal respect to both old and new toons.

I hate their eyes, I said it, Its bothered me constantly, they need pupils, they look scary with out them, some how they just look wrong, monsterous really.

they are monsters if you think about it, they are 5'6 NINJA turtles that can kick practically every humans ass :lol:

Well, they will have pupils, when they take their bandannas off. And they have said they will be taking their bandannas off periodically. (*guves a fangirl WHOOP!*) It's pretty common for the turtle to be drawn without pupils with their bandannas on, and with pupils when they're off.

Old cartoon had better animation? :lol: Il say you this, No It didn't! Well everyone is entitled to their opinion... If you want goofy Turtles, Go watch the old cartoon. 95% of the people are happy with the serious aproach, and It comes very close to original TMNT's feeling

Next guy might say "I like Next mutation better". To each his own.

What most people always forget is the old series is why the new series is around today. Not only was it the most popular TMNT but it's the most recognisable. That's the TMNT i grew up with and that's the TMNT i know. The Mirage comics are great too, there darker, gritty, they have good stories. But i think Laird forgets why he's gotten anoather show it's because the cartoon was MEGA Popular. And they're bringing back all these poular shows (He-Man TMNT, Transformers, Thundercats, Ghostbusters etc) Not only to introduce new fans but hopefully make alot of money again. You don't see shows like Bucky O'Hare, Toxic Crusaders and Mighty Max being remade. If the Old cartoon wasn't as popular i'd highly doubt they'd bring back it back even if its a good comic book.

Now Bebop, Rocksteady & of course Krang. They're not in the new show. Mainly because they're not Mirage. They woulden't fit in people say. Well BELIEVE IT OR NOT they were in almost all the episodes of the cartoon. You can't just forget them like that. Even if there not from Mirage. I say Make them fit in. They're not dark? Well make em dark, tough scary whatever. But i refuse to believe that they're gone forever they wreren't one shot guys like Muckman or Mutagen Man. They're History and there what most people remember. I say bring em back, update em.

The other thing why do cartoons have be so dark and serious? I think the reason people want that is they're grown up now there not kids they want a more realistic TMNT. Your thinking this is an Adult show, i'm an adult not a kid. I want a new tmnt for me. Dark shows/movies are cool i enjoy em too. But i rather have Saturday Morning Cartoons they same they always been. If you want an adult cartoon maybe get HBO to do one like Spawn. That's an adult show. But Saturday Morning Cartoon's dark nah . It's for kids remember not us.









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ahem
 

The new cartoon is darker and those characters you mentioned are gone because Laird wanted it that way. He is the one pulling MOST of the strings.

And it is wrong to believe kids are the ONLY target audience of the new show. Laird pointed out very clearly this show is trying to target older fans (like yours truly) and new fans as well. Kinda like X-men evolution in that regard: yah gots the peeps in their teens and twenties (and even *gasp!* thirties!) watching the show alongside the kids.

I wonder if some people complained this much when Batman started in 1992... "Hey, this doesn't look like Super Friends! Why don't they get Adam West to be Batmans voice?"

And what's wrong with a serious cartoon? Isn't Justice League serious? Or X-Men Evolution?

Personally, I think the new TMNT is just a suped up version of the old toon.

Mondo has a one point there, Because the old show went all pokemon, 4kids tought that TMNT would sell again. And you don't listen when I say that old mutants could not be use even if they wanted to. Artisan owns the rights. And hell there are 194 episodes of the goofy TMNT, if you want to see Rocksteady, there are over 160 episodes to choose from. So stop complaining, the TMNT has gone back to it's roots, and will stay that way!

193... :D

Okie doke, lets all be friends :lol:

So....anyone counting down until Saturday? April O'Neil, yeah!

Yeah Im really waiting for it.

You MISS the old Shredder? To each his own I suppose, but I am sick of the tired, old cliche of bumbling, incompetent villains.

I won't address any of your other points, as most of them already have been multiple times and I'm not one to beat a dead horse; but to reiterate what has been stated, you're judging the entire series on one episode. Throw in the fact that most series get better as they go along, it's not usually a good idea to judge from the first episode. I'm not saying you have to prefer this cartoon to the old one, just watch a few more eps before you pass your final verdict; you might be pleasantly surprised.

Yes. the first episode introduces characters etc, no room for real plot yet. It is sure to get better as the plot develops.

You guys are right let me wait about 10 episodes or so before i say more. The first episode was really good though. I reminded me alot of the fist movie it's like they animated it.

Re: Old Series Was Better
 

look nate don't take this personally, but try to get some insight from the original mirage comics before you pretend to know what your talking about


Low Standards? look at some former tv shows, for example Batman the animated series in the 90's in comparison to the one on tvland. intensity is so important to alot of shows. sure you can make an arguement for kirby and spongebob, but those are comedy shows and purely that, action shows have intensified alot for example, batman, dbz, justicve league, samurai jack etc.


[/quote] The problem with the new series is they have made the mistake of using the comics and saying that is what Ninja Turtles is. The fact is the Ninja Turtles most people love and enjoy aren't the ones from the comics, but rather the old cartoon show.[/quote]

THAT IS WHAT THE TURTLES IS! eastman and laird created the turtles and thats how they should've stayed, don't get me worng i love the old show, but some of the episodes are downright painful to watch


[/quote] The first problem I would like to point out is the animation. It is very good by today's standards but compare it to the old series and you will see it is no where near as detailed. [/quote]

The reason they do it this way is not only because it's cheaper but its much more consistant. the old show would often change animation style out of no where. they would discolor the masks and really change character design from one part of an episode to another

[/quote] The next problem is the fact that the series have taken such a serious approach.[/quote]

it had an excellent blend of humor

[/quote] The thing that made the first series the huge success it was was that it was not so serious. Instead it was always funny and packed with action.[/quote]


WRONG the old show was not packed with action, in fact they took every chance to work around it. rather than have leo use his swords he'd cut down a chandalier and have that fall

[/quote] In the new series the turtles are still funny, but Shredder doesn't seem to be. It was always funny to see him being bossed around by Krang and to have him pick on Bebop and Rocksteady. Now, only half of the fun is there in the new series.[/quote]

the old show did a yterrible injustice to shredder, he and krang became like a whiney couple with two idiotic children

[/quote] I see no reason to fool with something that isn't broken.[/quote]

if it ain't broke where is it?

[/quote] My theory is the real villian is Fox [/quote]

Fox a villian to bring back an idea that died a decade ago and do it a true service unlike the old program?

[/quote]I can only hope that in the next season Krang, Rocksteady, and Bebop show up.[/quote]

that would destroy everythiong the new show stands for

sorry but i am a very passionate tmnt fan and this new show is perfect and any tmnt fan of the true eastman and laird comics knows it.

Not to mention the fact that Fox doesn't have ANYTHING to do with how the show is made. All they do is give it a time slot and advertise.

Aritsan owns the rights huh? Didn't know that. Thanks for informing me Karpo. So that means The Frogs, Mondo Gecko and everybody else as well too. We'll i guess the only hope to see them again is on the DVD. And probably some stupid throwaway where Shredder will see a Rhino and a Warthog and go those would make stupid mutants.

Been there through both generations. This new cartoon rips the **** out of that old barney crap. There, I said it.

The old cartoon was a kids cartoon, and while this one is as well, it takes its cue from a young adult comic, with tributes to the creators and lines taken directly from the comic. They didn't have to do that. They could have made them goofy and no one would have been the wiser (what with all the crap out there), but they didn't, they made it enjoyable through a wide age-range, and they included the comic fans this time.

The first season of the old show was great, if not serious enough, but then that show became CRAP, as soon as Irma and Vernen became a deeper part of the show. Nostalgia can make people like something more than it deserves. I remember fondly the old show, but I also can watch it now (and I have) and admit how crappy it really is.

PIZZA POWER.....my ass.

That having been said....I love you guys. It's so great having fans to discuss this with. It's been a long lonely 10 years.

Kind of the way Transfans hold G1 in such high regard and above all other Transformer shows, even though Beast Wars is the most competent of them all. :D

Holden, you know it, man.

Beast Wars was excellent, and I have been a Transfan since it all started, but I know Beast Wars has greater production value and a much ritcher story than any of the old stuff. Hell even Beast Machines (while a bit out there), still had stronger design and story. The old show just carries the wieght of nostalgia. It's not just you watching the show, it's you coming home from school with friends and watching it. To some people, that carries more value than the actual show itself

You wouldn't happen to be a member of the Allspark, would you Prowl?

I think so, but I am windcharger there. Is that at tfw2005?

If we would start to compare the two shows, animation, wrting etc. The old cartoon wouldn't stand a chance. But Like I have been trying to say, They should not be compared. There is 10 years time cap there. Technology has evolved a lot, and more action packed series can be put in to Childern's block. So there is no point in starting comparing the two shows. It wouldn't be fair.

I completely agree. And the very obvious difference in time and content are evidence to how different these shows are. They are indeed very different cartoons that bear the same name.

BTW, I just doublechecked. I am not in allspark.

Why does everyone think that the first season is the best and everything after that is crap? THAT MAKES ME SO MAD. The first season is great. Those are some of the five best turtle episodes ever. But there are so many other great episodes after that.

Some of my favs are
Invasion of the Punk Frogs - One of the best mutation episodes ever
Turtles on Trial
Enter the Rat King- The Rat King is uniquie, cool and interesting.
The ones with Casey Jones
Leatherhead: Terror of the Swamp - The Frogs return and Leatherhead is mutated. AWESOME EPISODE.
Rapheal Meets His Match - Mona Lisa was a cool mutant.
Michaelangelo Meets Mondo Gecko - I LOVE this episode, Mondo Gecko's in it. Tell's his story and has my fav turtle as well Michealangelo.
Muckman, Mutagen Man, are really good as well.

Because they are goofy, repeatitive, and most have bad animation. Second and Third season were still pretty good, But the time of fourth it became really boring.

Now that I think of it, you're right. There were some good ones. Hell the Usagi Yojimbo ones were some of my favorite, even though there were only two.

I love the little mini series witht the alien that falls from space and entrust the turtles to find those stones. I think that was first season, but that was a great set of episodes.

First season was the first 5 eps. Eye of Zarnoth was in 2nd.