PEACE or WAR
 

Please don't give me some warned or similar...

i would only know what Americans think about the IRAQ-USA problem.

Thanks a lot.

Sincerly

I would prefer peace, but if there is a war I am not going to go out and protest it. Protesting accomplishes nothing.

I preffer to wait what will happen, we have only to hope!

I preffer peace.

But i'm an Italian State Policeman and i have to control who protest. Today somebody for the peace blocks an important road and we had to interfere...

thanks.

Peace all the way man!!!!!!!!!!!


*Lites up a joint and holds hands with everybody*

Even though I want to see peace, I know that the United States needs to go to war. First of all, et me say that just because one believes that the United States should take action (and have Saddam out of power) doesn't mean that they WANT to see a war. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. However, I don't want to be blown up or become exposed to chemicals or diseases (bioterrorism) either.

Those that compare GWB to Adolf Hitler needs to take out Bush's name, and add Saddam Hussein instead. He IS a threat to America, and the world. He has tortured, and murdered his own people. Do you accept what he is doing/has done? Saddam has lied about having chemicals and mass weapons of destruction. For 12 years, he have been given opportunities to disarm, and has been given opportunities to end this in a peaceful way. What makes you think he's going to change?

The anti-Americanism really makes me sick. Even those that the US has helped before are against them. For those that we've helped in the past/present but hate the United States, where would you be w/o that nation? Where would Europe be without the United States (especially during the WW I-II era)? You'd probably wouldn't exist today, or be suffering miserably. If I have offended anyone, I apologize, but it bothers me to see so much hatred towards my country. Hey, I didn't choose where I wanted to be born. I didn't choose what nationality I wanted to be. Is it my fault that I am an American? This is what I would say to the American haters out there.

As for peace, who doesn't want it? Well, the exception goes to people like bin Laden and Saddam. I understand that you have the right to say what you want about the U.S. government and everything, but I feel that the same people that are protesting today...ignored everything that went on during Clinton's administration. I didn't see any protesting (or it was much more limited) going on back then. I feel that there are many different groups of anti-war members: 1. The anti-Bush group. 2. The anti-American crowd. 3. People who truly don't believe that a war is necessary at all. 4. The Human Shields for Saddam group (yes, there is a small group that really want to protect him by being human shields). Are there any others?

Today, you can't really ignore the threats that go on in today's world. Any threat could lead to something disastrous. Hopefully, we can end terror (or reduce it greatly). I do believe things, such as the duct-tape/plastics thing was stupid. It's a waste of time and money. Heh.

Before I wrap it up, I would like to say..."have you people who oppose war forgotten 9-11-2001? Do you want to relive that day again, and again, and again?" For that to happen, all we have to do is do nothing...and HOPE that Saddam, bin Laden, etc. change their hearts. I don't see them hoping for peace. I don't see that peace is coming, if we ignore them. Dudes/dudettes, I do not want to be blown up by nuclear weapons..nor do I want to be exposed to anything..such as smallpox or anything like that. If I ever get married and have children, I want them to live in a nation without all the terror and fear. I'm sorry to say that the United States and the rest of the world will go dark, if we just wait and see what happens next. By the time we react, I believe it'll be too late. My final statement.....just because Saddam hasn't done anything major to the United States doesn't mean he doesn't have plans to do so.

I have a voice, and I'm not afraid to speak up on issues like these. For those that read this, thank you.

Uh... whatever...

Peace, the last thing this country needs is a war. Especially one that's all about Bush's popularity.

I agree with you all the way DeathKnight! :) War is disgusting and we cannot resort to it until EVERY LAST OPTION HAS BEEN EXPLORED. As we already know from the Korean War and the Gulf war, war does not work, it worked 3,000 years ago, lets not go backwards in time, lets progress, not destroy. As much as we don't want Bin Laden to attack or Saddam to burn his oil fields, we cannot resort to the kind of violence only they would pursue.

ORD, did you see Dan Rather's interview with Saddam Hussein on 60 minutes 2? Bush keeps saying he is a monster, but he looked well presented to me and said some very logical things I might add. Besides wanting peace, he wanted to have a live satellite debate with President Bush, so the whole world could see it, that would have been very useful. But of course, the Bush administration just dismisses this as a joke immediately, not wanting to take the shame of our C average President... we think Saddam is this maniac always ready to kill, yet he hasn't killed in 12 years...And it wasn't his own people that he killed, it was the Iranians, when they were at war, but we have an American view that says that all Middle East is the same...

Bush is also trying to make this into a crusade...he has influenced christianity in every one of his public appearances in some way, I see no seperation in church and state.

The cost of this war is tremendous, too tremendous, our whole country could be a better place if he used the money the right way.....Do we think that If we get Saddam Hussein out of power, the terrorists will not fight back??? They are all about revenge obviously because of the unsuccessful '93 bombing...I don't see an arab democracy, we are changing their whole way of life, it is rediculous, no one wants it but us and the goons who don't want to be on the "Axis of Evil"...lol

What are we going to do after the war? Leave that to the next president to deal with? Then who is next, North Korea? Then Iran? Are we going to slowly but surely kill off every nation til we have the world to our ungreatful selves? What is with this anti-American bull? We cannot express our opinions in a way that may be effective? Why protest you say? Well simply to remind the closed mind government of ours that people still want worldpeace...
All I can say now is lets try to think forward and not backwards.
I know I may have offended some in here, but hey, this is my opinion...accept it or reject it. :wink:

I assume you mean the Vietnam War in place of the Gulf War. :wink:

Actually now that you remind me, the Vietnam War was pointless as well! Heh, thanks. :wink:

Note: I will not be here this coming week til Friday unless something else comes up, so don't expect me to respond to questions or anything after this night.

We've given Saddam 12 years, dude!! He lies about not having weapons, then he says he refuses to disarm. Gee, I sure trust him. :trolleye: I'm not going to say much more on that quote except that we are truly dead, if we do nothing but ask for peace. It's better to act than to react. There will definitely be more attacks.

I don't buy in everything I hear on the media, I'm sorry. If Saddam wanted peace, he would show the world that he doesn't have weapons or shows them that he is disarming. He ain't doing either one. Tell me...why do you think the Iraqi Kurds want Saddam out? They're fed up with him. It happened close to the Iraq/Iran border, but the gassing and bombing by Saddam's men took place on his own people. If you did some research, and see the disturbing images, you would find out what happened.

I haven't seen that at all. He mentions "God" and "prayer", but he didn't use "Christianity." I've seen him compliment "Islam" many more times than I've heard him complimenting the Christian faith (even though he does believe in that faith).

Do we just stop? Do we wait and let these people meet their goals by wiping out America and other places? The cost of war in dollars does not concern me, it's the millions of lives that will be in stake if America chooses to react and do nothing. There won't be an economy left to defend, and America would be back in the Stone Age. And you want to know why America was unsuccessful at getting rid of Saddam and dismantle the Ba'ath Party? It's because of the anti-war crowd who said "we're killing innocent people....stop the bombs, stop it now!"

We don't just do nothing, that's for sure. Then, millions of people would be dead. North Korea will have to be dealt with eventually, in my opinion. Do you not see all the American flag burnings that take place all over the world? Isn't that anti-American? What about anti-American slogans (such as "Death to America" or "America is the 'Great Satan'")??

Again, what would happen if the U.S. did not go to war in W.W. II? If it wasn't for the U.S., then Naziism would dominate all over Europe. I don't think President George W. Bush is the most intelligent man on Earth, nor do I agree with him on everything...however, I do believe that this is the most difficult 4-year-term that any U.S. President has ever dealt with. He definitely has my support, and I definitely hope that he makes the right decisions. Also, the military personnel, I wish them the best of luck. They have my support. They're out their to defend their great nation, their loved ones, and to defend the freedoms everyone in the U.S. have.

Even though we all want peace, sometimes...the hard way is the only way to go. As long as we have people that want to destroy lives, we will continue to be targeted. Because of that, peace will never be achieved by not doing anything. One day, all of the freedoms that every American enjoys may be gone thanks to all these people who want to destroy America. My family (future wife, and children, etc.) may be living in a fearing, brainwashed society. That's not the America I want to live in. I know not everyone here lives in the United States, and know that there are Europeans, and other people across the globe that post here. If I am the "minority" group around here (the only one that has these views), then I will live with that. I don't want to be hated for what I stand for, though. I love American, I'm proud to be an American...even though I didn't choose to be born there.

Thank you again.

I really wouldn't say the Gulf War was pointless, we did drive the Iraqis out of Kuwait. But a lot of supplies were wasted during that conflict; the US spent hundreds of hours and used over 100 planes a day looking for Iraq's phantom Scud launchers; which we never found.

Peace or War?
mangos and enchilada holy wars.

Cant grown men settle disputes like they do in Italy...pelting tomatoes and oranges at eachother?

ugh
 

The way this poll was originally framed was horrendously naive and simplistic.

Peace or war???

That makes the childish assumption that not going to war is the same thing as 'peace'. Hussein isn't going away, kiddies. And neither are the suicide bomber terrorists.

Political Parties and foreign wars will be our countries downfall, according to George Washington.

War, for one reason and one reason only...to improve our damn economy! (and thus increasing my chances of getting a job...)

I'm starting to wonder if he wasn't right.

the only job you'll have a chance of getting is being a soldier if the draft comes back into play. Do you want to go over to fight? I know I don't... I have really bad eye sight and I have ADD. I wouldn't last very long out there. I have a life to live and the last thing I need is it to end for Bush's popularity.

Cos' hai contro gli italiani?

belinone!

well...
 

Two things:

One) the notion of the draft being reinstituted for this war makes me :lol:

Two) if you really do have bad eyesight and ADD, then they won't send you on the frontlines. you'll get a nice military deskjob. assuming the draft is used, that is.

This war isn't about boosting GWB's popularity. I consider that a lie from the left.

History shows that wars in the past have boosted the U.S.'s economy. Heck, that's probably the only way the economy is ever going to start improving. If America is bombed again and again, then there won't be an economy left, will there? 9-11-01 did a lot of damage to the economy (especially to the airline industry).

With a comment like that, it's obvious that you have no clue about how the modern military operates.

yup
 

Ditto.

I dislike our so called president. His so called "war on terrorism" is nothing more then a goose chase. It amazes me after the 9-11 attack, and the goverment could not find Osama and the rest of his regime, Bush goes to the next country that just happens to also be a Muslim nation AND have had past desputes before. This whole thing is stupid. I hear pro Bush people telling me "well if we don't fight for our country from being attacked, we'll get pushed around, blah blah blah we're not p*ssies blah blah blah" the same crap over and over again. What attack. What threat. Do you honestly think Saddam is a threat? I know people will say "well the UN found some weapons and so on" but if he did have these supposed weapons of mass destruction, why hasn't he tried anything on us? He's had 12 years after all! And after 9-11, we were wide open, he could have done anything be it another attack or something else to cripple the US. When you get down to it, it really is pointless. But of course not to Bush. Why? Oil. Period. He may throw allegations that this countries security is at risk. Pff. Please. Oil is what Dubya wants, and oil is what Dubya is gonna get.

Notice how North Korean publicaly opens a power plant capable of producing the very materials needed to produce weapons of mass destruction. Sure they didn't flat out say "we're gonna make weapons of mass destruction" but for Christ's sake, they are a bigger threat then a tiny country with a crumbling economy and goverment system. North Korean on the other hand is a very strong, capable country under a communist goverment. Ya see what I'm tryin to say?

Not only is Deathknight ignorant about how the military works, he's also ignorant with economics!

If there is a war, it will no doubt create a lot of vacancies in the job market, thereby giving people an easier chance of finding work. Look how WW2 got us out of the depression!

And besides, I'm not going to be drafted first if it ever comes to that. They start with the 21-year-olds first. They're definitely NOT sending the inexperienced ones out to fight; the purpose of the draft is mainly to find people to fill in slots where the active-duty personnel are now gone from just in case there aren't enough reservists (sp) in the country for them.

Oh and by the way, this whole thing about other countries being "anti-American" and so on. They are pretty much right. America opresses the other countries in order to keep it's dominant position. I'm gonna be honest and say I don't agree with our goverment, and our president. And flag burning isn't exactly "anti-American" if anything. Todays "flags" are treated better then most third world children. Honestly, if this country is so damn free, people can burn some flalg anytime they damn well please.

Well said, Donatello02...If I was able to be on for longer, I would make a worthwhile post too. All I will say is all we will get out of this war is an unwanted government in the middel east, tony blaire losing his job, and future terrorist attacks, maybe even more severe... :(

Now I have to part, cya. :wink:

heh
 

Ah.... sweet, sweet naivette. So we meet again.

If one is burning a flag of the United States, that IS being anti-American. Those morons don't realize the people who are out there fighting for their country. They're defending people's freedoms, defending their loved ones, defending the American people, and more. I never said that people don't have the right to burn flags. I also have the right to look at them as haters of their own country.

Our troops? Honestly, most of them are in it for the money due them not being able to pay for college and tuition. The goverment cares less about our troops as well. They are nothing but mindless weapons to them. I'm not saying the goverment doesn't CARE about our soldiers, but it's not as important to them in their foreign policies.

ahem
 

And... of course, you would really know, what with your deep political contacts and resources in the government.... and your countless years of governmental service and political study, right?? :roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm seriously all for the war. I think that Sadam while maybe not acting on what he is capable of now up front has helped with the distruction of freedom via support to terrorist groups. He may or may not be linked to al queda (sp?) but there is subsiquent proof of his involvement with terrorist groups of many different kinds.

I think further more, the Iraqi people need to be liberated. Yes, we will go in and make it a democratic country...while that might not be the best thing to do... its better than having a leader who posins your air, drops deadly chemicals on you for fun and leaves his people in constant poverty despite the fact they are one of the world's largest exproter of oil.

I also believe that Sadam isn't as big a thret as His SON. His son is down right evil incarnet.

What REALLY scares me though is N. Korea.

Ask yourselves, would Master Splinter agree with this war? I tend to think he would. No one likes war, and fighting is bad, but sometimes its the only option you've got.

Actually smart ass, I have facts. Unlike you guys, who stick what you guys are programed to think by media which is own by coroporations which is owned by the goverment. You can sit there and grin like an idiot and agree with everything you hear, but I know the whole story. I could care less what you think, all I know is I have my facts. Oh and Mr. Kung Fu master nerd who spends his life on a frigging message board, you might wanna get off your mighty high horse and pull your head out of your ass. Thanks.

AHEM
 

Well, you certainly have never used them.

Corporations are owned by the government, huh?? That would explain all those financial crimes that the government-owned corporations commited against the government that owned them, right??

You should probably look up the meaning of 'capitalism' in the dictionary...

And I'm sure you garnered this 'whole story' from your deep political resources in the White House, right?? :roll:

You obviously care, or else you wouldn't be getting upset about it. And, once again, you have yet to reference any 'facts' in this discussion.

You might want to quit resorting to personal attacks. They demean the validity of your position.

I stick to my comment. Come off your high horse.

Read Noam Chomsky's work, and William Blum. You'll get your facts then. Oh and my "validity" is still here, no matter how many times I call you a jack ass.

ahem
 

Telling me to 'read these here books' is not presenting or accurately portraying any facts. You have still presented nothing to support your arguments outside of infantile name-calling.

Not at all. Instead of presenting counterarguments or empirical references to counter my position, you lower yourself and resort to personal attacks. This just makes your position seem untenable to the outside observer.

Yes, I agree. Heretic, you are the one starting personal attacks, that is why I was afraid to even post here, calling me a naivette...yea, not insulting at all... :roll:

I am tired of arguing whether to go to war or not, it seems everyone has made up their mind and will not change, so now I am just predicting horrible things to come of this war, as every war has horrible things. Just cause we think a leader is evil, doesn't mean we can just go shoot him up and get rid of the regime....otherwise this Bush regime probly wouldn't be here, LoL

I can't type anymore now, as I have to get off, cya.

First of all, I wouldn't be calling people a "smartass" or whatever. Krang wouldn't like this at all. Second, the media isn't always right. I don't believe in EVERYTHING I hear. It seems like they're the 'anti-war' media, in my opinion. Facts?! If you have facts, then where are your sources? Hmm??

Wow, hypocrisy is beast isn't it heretic.

fine you want your facts. Here they are:
an account from William Blum, left the State Department in 1967
In 1998, the State Department issued a report listing Cuba amongst those nations alleged to "sponsor terrorism". Curious about this, I called up the State Department and was connected to what they called "The Terrorism Desk", where a man told me that Cuba was included because "They harbor terrorists." "So does the United States," I replied. "The Cuban exiles in Miami have committed hundreds of terrorist acts, in the U.S. and abroad." The gentleman exploded. "Sir," he cried in a rising voice, "that is a fatuous remark and I will not listen to such nonsense!" And he hung up. It's always fascinating to observe how a True Believer reacts to a sudden, unexpected and unanswerable threat to his fundamental ideological underpinnings. The Cuban exiles are in fact probably the longest lasting and most prolific terrorist group in the world, and they're still at it. In the past year or so they've been busy bombing hotels in Havana, all directed from Miami.Cubans are not the only terrorists enjoying safe haven in the United States. There are Haitians, Salvadoreans, Guatemalans, Indonesians, and others guilty of terrible crimes against humanity, walking around free as can be in the United States. They were, and perhaps still are, allies of U.S. foreign policy objectives. Take the example of Former Guatemalan Defense Minister Hector Gramajo. In 1995 a U.S. court ordered Gramajo to pay $47.5 million in damages to eight Guatemalans and a U.S. citizen for his responsibility in the torture of the American and the massacre of family members of the Guatemalans (among thousands of other Indians whose death he was responsible for). Gramajo was served a court summons in 1991 as he graduated from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, where he had studied on a scholarship provided by the U.S. government. The judge stated that "The evidence suggests that Gramajo devised and directed the implementation of an indiscriminate campaign of terror against civilians." It was only following the court judgement that the Defense Department withdrew Gramajo's invitation to speak at a military seminar. For many years, and in many ways, the United States has worked with and helped such terrorists in numerous countries. Washington has taught them how to bomb, how to torture, how to assassinate, even provided them with terrorism manuals. One commonly accepted definition of terrorism is: Violence directed against civilians in order to intimidate or coerce a government or its citizens in furtherance of a political objective. The 40,000 American bombing sorties of the Gulf War and those since have claimed the lives of many thousands of Iraqi civilians in an attempt to influence the government of Saddam Hussein or induce his overthrow. Likewise the American bombings of civilians in Panama, Libya and Grenada in the 1980s directed against those governments. Imagine that the cold war is still going on, and the Soviet Union, citing some very minor pretext, filled the skies with bombers over, say, Greece, bombing the civilian population, killing hundreds or thousands, making thousands more homeless ... without having been first attacked by Greece, or threatened in any way by Greece. If this, at the time, had been called an act of terrorism, who would have objected? Well, the scenario I just described is exactly what the United States did to Panama in 1989 . The difference between an individual terrorist and a government in some cases may be simply that the former has a bomb but doesn't have an air force. And many more examples of acts of terrorism by the U.S. government can be cited, even the more classic kind -- in 1985, in an attempt to assassinate a certain Muslim leader in Lebanon, the CIA arranged for a car bomb to go off. The bomb went off, and killed 80 people, but not including the Muslim leader.

That's one example of our great goverment and it's "foreign polcies" they have their own pacific agenda. We are merely pawns my friend. Now I know you going to come back with some "Those aren't facts" or some sarcastic remark like how I don't work for the US Goverment or how these facts aren't valid and so on and so on. You can keep making excuses to yourself, I've lost interest. Thanks bye.

hoo boy
 

Actually, that post was never adressed to anyone in particular. If you interpreted it as directed at you, I suggest reading up on a little Freud....

The same could be said of you, Tokka.

Yes.... such as the cultural revolution of Alexander's conquests in the Mediterranean. Or, the development of international order and communication resulting from World War II. Or, the growth of human rights resulting from the American liberation of the Revolutionary War. Or the abolition of slavery resulting from the American Civil War. Or the amazing advancements in science and education resulting from the Cold War. War is a double-edged sword, my friend.

No, but when said regime is in clear violation of Resolution 1440, unanimously ratified by the United Nations Security Council, then we can back up international order by force if necessary.