Why didn't Next Mutation use any TMNT villains...?
 

...besides Shredder and the Foot? One thing that bothered me about the show is all the villains felt like they belonged to another show, as if they weren't TMNT villains.

Dragon Lord was obviously very Power Rangers, but even Bonesteel, Silver, Vam Mi and Dr. Quease all felt like they weren't quite TMNT characters. Sure Silver probably felt the closest being a talking ape, but not quite.

Instead of Dr. Quease we could have gotten Baxter Stockman. And why didn't they bring in Leatherhead or Rat King? Or even Krang? It's really odd.

I think it really boiled down to why retread old ground. Seriously though, why would you want to just redo what had been done. I actually give them props for trying to be different. I think there were a lot of things going against the show from the get go. Original characters I feel was one of the lesser problems.

Using familiar characters in live-action would have made plenty of sense. It would make people more interested in the show to see takes on classic villains and it would feel more like a TMNT show. Remember we've never seen a live-action Baxter, Leatherhead, Rat King or Krang.

Shredder was written out by the second episode, and we didn't see a single familiar TMNT villain for the rest of the show. That's when the series lost its identity.

Some would argue that's what gave the show its identity, seeing as how they were original to that universe.

I agree with Hob, props to NM for trying something different and bringing in new characters. Why do we have to rehash the same 10 or so characters all the time?

If they had gone with live action versions of established characters people would have cried foul when they weren't like the FW show. You have to remember this came out not that long after the cartoon stopped. It didn't want to be seen as a continuation of the cartoon but its own thing.

There were plans to bring Casey, April, and Shredder into more important roles in season 2.

Well.....some assume, and there is evidence to back it up (and also stuff that torpedoes this theory) that the NM universe is an offshoot of the movies.

Yeah I like it as a continuation of the movie universe. I view it as such.

I kinda do too, the biggest hurdle is Super Shredder.

See I just ignore that part. In all honesty after they defeat Tokka and Rahzar I tune out. The Super Shredder bit I just imagine as normal Shredder and call it good.

The show woudn't be the same without Bonesteel.:P

I'll admit thought, one of the better episodes of NM brings Shredder back.

I really liked Sliver.When I was working on a fan fic/comic one of the stories I was thinking of was reworking him into a crime family of mutated Apes. Honestly I'd kind of like IDW to try to rework some of these guys and make them fit in the new comic.

I tried watching the pilot episode on youtube yesterday... if they'd used more familiar characters I might have given it more of a chance. But IMO it was pretty bad :/

You know, the use of "unknown characters" could almost be another flag for NM being inside the movie continuity. I mean, the movies had Shredder, the Foot, and then unknown characters in the 3 movies. Heck, even TMNT has the Foot and more unknown villains. Why are we acting like the use of characters new to the NM universe is unprecedented or a hindrance. It may be the one strength NM has.

Yeah a big part of why I love the show is that it had a unique cast of villains. I'm glad it had one. They were designed to be goofy by default, which is why they worked. Shredder, for example, who was already portrayed as this hellish badass elsewhere, was turned into a joke by their lesser grade actors poor costumes. The new ones though, there was no basis for comparison. You took 'em as they were & liked 'em, as you didn't know what you were missing by having seen them in an already existing universe. Had they brought in Rat King or something, he'd have been corny as hellllllll.

Me too, and I would looooove to see him get a second chance. Hell, honestly, I think they all deserve one. IDW, BRING THEM ON!!!

Krang
 

Krang wasn't in Mirage, so is he an original TMNT character (except being created for TMNT)? But I agree, he's so much cooler than the Next Mutation characters.

The original comics had plenty of villains and other characters we never see again. Sticking with the same villains has never been a characteristic of the original TMNT.

Bonesteel fit perfectly in the TMNT universe. He is clearly inspired by the hunter who was chasing Leatherhead in the Mirage comics. He even has the same habit of giving female names to his gear!

Dr Quease was a great great character. I love his ambiguous relationship with Donatello. Donatello desperately wants his respect. And I believe Dr Quease is honestly fascinated by him (I don't think he was acting when he let Donatello escape).
I think he was a great mad scientist. Not evil for the sake of being evil. Unfortunately, the subplot about him and Donatello is rushly resolved in two episodes.

Silver, despite not being a mutant, felt like a mutanimal from the Archie comics. While I don't think he is a bad character, my problem with him is that it doesn't make any sense for him and his goons to be a real threat to the turtles in a direct fight.

The Dragons and the vampires were the ones I didn't love. Coincidentally, both are linked to Venus and her shinobi magic. :P
The Dragons didn't look and act like dragons at all. Except for the Dragonlord and Wick, they looked like generic Foot ninjas and were defeated just as easily. Their powers weren't very consistent, just like Venus'. They could breath fire and use magic, but I think they did that twice in the whole show.
And the vampire was pretty lame. "My heart! My heart!"

Silver was the only villain I really liked.

Great point. Wish Nick figured that out. They're not just retreading old ground they're trying to retread an entire series.

I don't know if they are trying to retread a whole series, maybe a little but I think there is more then that going on. I mean they have made some changes. It is going to be hard to say how much they have changed it tell we see an actual episode. I'm optimistic about it.

But to talk about this topic, as Sewdfan pointed out Krang isn't an original turtle villain. He was made for the OT. The only "true" characters would be from the original source material which was Mirage. But if you expand the meaning to every other incarnation of TMNT you would have people crying foul that their character didn't make the cut.

So like the OT I have to give NM props for doing its own thing. I think Silver would have worked a lot better if he was a mutated Ape instead of a Yeti. Venus would have been a lot better if they didn't try to fit her into the origin, just made her another mutant somehow, and The Dragon Lord would have worked if they had played him straight and not for laughs. There were a lot of things wrong with the show don't get me wrong, but it was very ambitious for what it tried to do.

They could have easily used Krang if they wanted to. I think we should have seen Baxter, Leatherhead and Rat King at least.

But why? What is the point other then to cater to the FW fans? Krang wouldn't have worked in the context they were going in at the time. I think people get to stuck on the one version they like the most and want everything to reflect that version. It doesn't need to. Maybe we would have seen more familiar faces as the seasons went on.

Like I said before Casey and April were supposed to be in season 2. Shredder was going to be the big bad of season 2 also. So who knows what we would have gotten. I think establishing this wasn't the OT was important.

Here is something to think about too, if they did bring Krang in would they have brought Utroms in? I mean this could have given us an Utrom and Triceraton story later in the show.

I dunno if Saban would've allowed the budget for that sort of thing. Remember that Big Bad beetleborgs and Mystic knights had good ratings, yet both were cancled to fold thier budgets into Power Rangers's budget.

Where did you read that?

There are no 100% sources but it has been long held. I'm trying to track things down still about it. The closest I could find at the moment is the TMNTpedia page.

http://tmnt.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja_Tur..._Next_Mutation

This is a good point I suppose but why couldn't they have meshed the new villains with ones well established in TMNT canon. Rat King, Leatherhead etc. I suppose Slash would have been overkill given we already had an extra mutant turtle.

Then again, given how Shredder was intepreted on the show maybe we dodged a bullet.

I'm thinking that making more mutants would be more expensive and as you can tell they didn't seem to be running with a large budget.

Those vampires from the last episodes seemed to be pulled out from a party city commercial.

Because people would have cried foul that they were not the same character that they remembered.

I actually think the original rogues is the greatest contribution TNM did to the franchise.

Bonesteel was pretty awesome, when he wasn't a total goofball but just batshit insane he was awesome like in the Vammi saga. If written correctly he could be one of my favorite rogues. Silver wasn't anything too special but also if written less of a bufoon he could be an interesting character. Dr. Quease might seem unnecessary with Baxter but I actually think he brought a different dynamic, him being an idol for Don and the fact that unlike Baxter, Quease wasn't necessarily evil, he was shown that he didn't care who he worked for as long as science was progressing, sure he was made into a lackey and just crazy goofy a lot of the time but again he has tons of potential. Vaami I didn't care for much, too generic and nothing that stands out. The origin of the Dragonlord wasn't that great but he's re-imagining him could definitely worked, I especially liked the way his "rank" worked and the "good" dragon episode showed how awesome the rank warriors could be.


Yeah, they all mostly show great potential that I'd love to see in another turtles universe, sadly most of them fell from the Batman Forever syndrome that they all act goofy and stupid when they shouldn't. At times they were handled well only to piss it away with them acting crazy like the joker or just plain too goofy. Sadly with TNM being the Scrappy Doo of the franchise those awesome characters will never get their time to shine.

You know I never understood the hate for Scrappy either though. He was a puppy, and actually saved them a few times. I thought he as handled fairly well. Just goes to show that I like things others don't though.

I think the show would have been better if we saw Baxter, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, Krang, Slash, and maybe Babyface Cleaver.

and Big Louie, and Don Turtelli, and Doctor Polydorious, and Mad Dog McMutt, and Big Badilla Badd and her Boys, and Shreeka, and Chrome Dome, and Groundchuck and Dirtbag, and....

The partridge family...

The show was good the way it was, and could have been even better if they cut out the goofy soundtrack. I think that was a big part of what was wrong with the show. Even with the show going goofy, if that sound effect track hadn't been there I think it would have been fine.

Krang, Technodrome and Dimension X
 

Krang would probably require Technodrome and Dimension X too.

When you think about it Saban also could've used Archie characters like Null and Verminator X. Though as many people have already said what's the point in rehashing everything that was seen just a couple years earlier in the comics and cartoon?

But why? How would that have made it better? Yeah they are characters that the "fans" know but not the general public as much. Just because you liked them in the OT, comics, or movie doesn't mean they would have worked for this show.

Costumes
 

Or Armaggon? But probably silly costumes. They would be better in the 1987 show.

This was a time when anything '80s/early '90s was strictly uncool if taken too seriously, so Saban attempted to make a completely new direction with the show. If the villains were created by Shredder/Foot or if they turned out to be creations of something like the Utroms, that would be understandable. The villains belonged more in a Sentai show than being about Ninjas and Mutants. Van Mi feels more like a Rita Repiusa (ten thousand years old and a vampire) than Karai. If Van Mi was the special villain on the PRIS crossover, that would have worked, but it is just so disappointing in that Saban not only failed to release live action versions, but also create characters that are still in the realm of conquering the foot.

Oh yea, I didn't think of him earlier. I can see them using too many Jaws jokes, which would get old fast!