Ch'rell or Venus
 

Which of these two character do you feel was more controversial?

In the moment, Ch'rell. Legacy wise, Venus.

I feel like the Chr'ell concept made Shredder not really Shredder in the 2003 cartoon in a subconscious amaglamation(sp?) of Shredder and Krang and as much as I dislike the concept along with making a oneoff clone Rat King . Venus is a female turtle shoehorned in out of nowhere and really hurts the concept of all male mutant turtles 4 TMNT and maybe a bizarro mutant turtle. She is one of the two things TMNT I pretend don't exist.

I thought Venus was actually an interesting idea for a character, but just poorly executed. Utrom Shredder on the other hand was just a dumb way to get around the head chopping scene in "Return to New York".

I like chrell hes cooool better than 87 shredder

Ch'rell is a very popular character as the 4kids Shredder when he was Oroku Saki , maybe not so much as an Utrom without his "human persona."

Venus is one of the most hated characters in the most hated TMNT incarnation. Pretty obvious.

Ch'rell tends to get a pass since the show was already three seasons in, and using Utrom powers was a good way to get around the idea of Shredder coming back to life. He wasn't disliked by Peter/Kevin either.

Venus on the other hand was just as a way to woo the preteen/teenage audience who watched the OT as a cute concept along with having the Power Rangers concept of 5 against one big monster. If Venus' origin was more clearly explained, her story could have been more respectable.

venus is fanfic material XD

though i'm not crazy about 4k, ch'rell is a cool concept (AMALGAMATION) shredder+krang combo at least served as a nice little twist in turtles forever XD

Utrom "powers"? Is that like a trained ninja having (and losing) "Turtle Powers"?

I find it funny that Ch'rell just happened to have the same voice and personality of the Tengu Shredder.....what of the odds lol? With Cyber Shredder, I can see Ch'rell programming his personality and voice into it.

Yes, Ch'rell as an utrom had a chipmunk voice in secret origin, but that was later ignored in future episodes.

I figured Ch'rell must have programmed the Shredder suit to use Tengu Shredder's voice. How and why Ch'rell's utrom outside Shredder suit voice has changed has always been a mystery to me.

I like Ch'rell better than Venus.

Ch'rell never has bothered me that much. He fit in with the show IMO.

Venus...no...just no.

Venus was, figuratively and literally, stupid.

I've got no problems with mutant female characters, but not somebody painfully naive and with weird shell-boobs, shoehorned into the regular Turtles dynamic.

Ch'rell is fine. His being an Utrom doesn't negate his capabilities as a villain one bit, and I think he was one of the breakout things about 4Kids. An interesting idea that played out just fine, bringing separate parts of the Mirage continuity (Shredder and Utroms) together and making it work.

You're like the kid at the beginning of Jurassic Park who compares Velociraptor to a Turkey.

When you stop and think about it, both the 2003 cartoon and OT feature 4 mutant turtles battling a brain-like space warlord. We see Shredder as a human ninja master in so many versions, why can't the 2003 series do something different for a change?

I wuv Venus. Reminds me of Blaze from Sonic the Hedgehog. I want her to return on the Nick show, maybe mutated from spike. Ch'rell on the other hand... he's disgusting. Killed millions, took over New York, and even tried to destroy all of existence. Kinda like SATAM Robotnik. Worst of all, because we were okay with Ch'Rell, Michael Bay tried to turn the Turtles into aliens.

Weren't the turtles sexist at one point in Next Mutation? My memory is bad, but wasn't Ralph angry that he was beaten by a girl(Venus) in one episode, knowing Ralph's ego? You know shows where the guy characters will diss the token girl character because....well.....she is a girl?

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Not sure if serious...
Alot of the episodes tend to play that sub plot. Venus is a girl she is different there fore she doesn't fit in. It was nice the first few times because yeah she didn't fit in. But almost every episode ugh.

I think the answer should be obvious. Ch'rell is better than Venus by a long shot.

I'm glad both characters have stopped existing from this world.

But if I choose which is worse...Venus. Pointless and contrived.

Ch'rell never really bothered me. He does get points for being menacing and a genuine threat. But I do prefer the Shredder being a human ninja master named Oroku Saki.

Venus: Could have worked if she wasn't a Mary Sue.

I think Venus was more pointless. Going by what others have said, as to how Ch'Rell was like an amalgamation of Shredder and Krang, that doesn't exactly bother me and going strictly by what I've seen in comics with other characters being "merged" or something similar, I don't find it altogether unacceptable. It didn't *need* to be done, and I wouldn't prefer it as the "main" representation of Shredder in the TMNT mythology, but it was okay. The execution was fine, for what it was.

Venus was both poorly conceived and poorly executed.

Ch'rell is more controversial; in the not everyone agrees on whether he was awesome or lame. That Venus sucks, though, is close to a unanimous opinion. (Though not close enough for my tastes.)

Of course that begs the question of how Ch'rell knew what Oroku Saki sounded like in the first place.