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Why should the TMNT act like normal human teenagers?
(I will paraphrase from another thread, as I think this is worthy of its own)
I don't understand the need and want in more recent media and from latter day writers on things like Tales V2, the IDW stuff (though the IDW almost gets a pass because in that, the Turtles are reincarnations of little Feudal Japan human boys... though that in itself should almost make them more alien) and the Nicktoon to write the Turtles as being normal human teenagers... when they are anything but. You know, they did not attend George Middleton Elementary. They did not go to Prom with little Suzie. They did not cheat on their homework off of Randy Brenner's paper. They did not get sent to the principal's office for being unruly in class, or rack their brains for weeks on their senior thesis. No, they were basically "born" and raised in a sewer, cut off and isolated from mankind, to one day go above ground and assassinate a guy. Their "education" is a lifelong course in ninjitsu... that's it. While their age may be teenage, that kind of seems incidental to me -- they would not have had anything remotely resembling a normal human teenaged sensibility and it's weird that anyone would think that they would or should. Do you agree they should be portrayed as normal human teenagers who just happen to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? Do you think that aspect should be dialed back? |
You have a very valid point. Their isolation may actually have been beneficial to them by allowing them to be themselves. It gave them the freedom to just be.
Didn't matter what Richie rich kid or his financially superior parents said. Didn't matter what Bruno the bully said. There wasn't a Bruno the bully. No cliques, no per pressure, no one mocking them for liking something they didn't like. Only the strict tutelage of Splinter and the art of Ninjutsu. Kind of makes me wonder. Good topic Andrew. |
We're led to believe that besides Splinters influence, their personalities were crafted by American pop culture. Cable TV, comic books, etc. I think that would make them considerably more human & teen-like. I like it to be somewhere in the middle as far as being separate from our society vs being brought up on it. One example that comes to mind is the first episode of the OT. The turtles use urban slang and yet when they're in Aprils apartment they don't know what half the appliances around her are, lack proper etiquette, etc.
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Somewhere in the middle makes sense to me, really. I mean, they aren't "normal human teenagers" but they are still young, and there are certain tenancies that come with youth the Turtles should exhibit.
Mirage Turtles are the only ones raised as "Splinter's Little Assassins" and even later issues ret-conned that to make Splinter a bit more well rounded and less of a guy who only really used the Turtles to fight his battles. The other series they are young students of Ninjitsu who only eventually have to face down Shredder. It's not what they were trained for, it was mostly a defense because of their freakish appearance. But in those series they are still young, and should have some teenage tenancies. Does that mean text books and Sadie Hawkins' Dances? No. Does it mean looking to have fun despite their circumstance and having a possibly rebellious streak? In my mind, yes. |
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Very interesting point, Andrew, and I concur, to a point. The fact the TMNT were not raised in an environment like normal teenage human beings means they probably would not act in the stereotypical "teenage" manner. As you said, their upbringing and lifestyle was fairly isolated and strict, so I would imagine they would be a bit more "grown up" and maybe a bit overly serious, compared to most teenagers. If you figure their only exposure to the outside world and pop culture for several years was the little bit they would have been able to see on a half-busted, thrown-out TV that Donnie had fixed up, even their fascination with skateboarding and Mikey's need to speak like Bill and Ted really makes little to no sense, realistically.
That's why I'm not as big a fan as some others of the way they are portrayed in Nick. To me, the fact they "Finally act like teenagers" makes them seem, in some ways, kind of dumbed-down. Their upbringing wouldn't naturally lead to them being quite so goofy and immature. If anything, it makes more logical sense for them to be quite a bit more mature and serious, generally speaking. That's why it never once bothered me when they were portrayed that way; to me, it just made more sense. However, studies show that when you're younger the parts of your brain that control impulsive behavior and rational decision-making have not fully developed yet, so having them be a bit impulsive and overly-aggressive, like teenagers, makes perfect sense in its own way. But I don't think having them be stereotypically "teenage" with the implicit immaturity, etc., makes much sense. |
Great thread discussion from OP. Also great posts from Powder, Jester, and Leo656. My post from another thread:
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While I wholly appreciate that the Turtles in whatever off hours Splinter would have allotted them would probably have an array of pop culture to immerse themselves in from old magazines they find and TV... their training and Splinter's strict tutelage would have largely trumped the greater influence of that out of the forefront. This is a guy who, in the source material, made it his life's work to raise these Turtles to kill a guy... he's probably not going to f*** around in keeping them focused. |
Stop being such a Mirage Supremacist, Andrew...
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Another, maybe better question to be asked:
Does making the TMNT act more like normal human teenagers make the TMNT a better comic/cartoon/movie? And why, beyond reasons of relatability to you or I or Joe Q teenager? |
I'd argue no, not "better". More relatable for kids and some viewers, yeah. But other than making them a little bit more immature and less intelligent, I'm not sure what else could come of them being more like "real teenagers". Like even a normal teenager Donnie's age that was a genius by teenage standards couldn't come up with half the stuff he does. That's just one example.
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Good point. It's why I kinda like him better as portrayed in the movies, where he's more of a Mr. Fixit with a bit of advanced knowledge of science, but not like Einstein-level intelligence or anything.
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Oddly enough the Donnie I like the most (or maybe 2nd most now behind Nick's Rob-atello), the 4kids, Donnie is probably the worst when it comes to pulling advanced (I mean even more advanced than the technology around him) tech straight out of his shell. If one thing bothered me about the 4Kids series it was that. |
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Seeing how Splinter waited 13 years until the turtles skills were at their peak, he wouldn't rush them. it is after all a task they have to be successful the first try, there aren't an abundance of mutants to train. But, in most other incarnations, Splinter is more raising the turtles as his own children, living in peace and secretly away from the world. Which gives the turtles even more freedom to be influenced teenager-y by things as TV, comic books and magazines. |
I've addressed this issue in previous posts before, that the Turtles (in any version), can't be the fully stereotypical human teenagers we normally associate with:
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Leo656 and Jester, you guys are too disillusioned with the dumb teens we see in the news and YouTube. :P You'd be surprised how smart teenagers can be, and if they really applied themselves. As these articles show here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_16...d-cancer-test/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3404115.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3254920.html http://milwaukeecourieronline.com/in...que-at-age-14/ |
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Remember, teenage Turtles are different than teenage humans, so it works best to have some relate-able traits, but not overly done. That time in your life is generally between the imagination peak (later childhood/pre-Teen) and executing creativity (twenties). But despite that, they are still mutants and no matter their age, unless if enough humans can give them support (April/Casey Jones to begin with), they will have to stay within the code of Splinter and their supporters. That's why they are mostly outside at night when most of the public sleeps and only go to trusted locations such as the pizzeria. But Splinter usually has lots of educational material, as seen in the OT's intro story, and the Turtles can use that, along with any pop cultural elements such as media and entertainment to enhance their quality of life. Then you had in the OT people masks in order to emulate a human. At the end of the day, what matters is that the Turtles don't commit any violence on anybody that opposes violence.
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They're already giant talking ninja turtles XD I have no problem with them acting like crazy teens.
I figured they learned stuff from TV, which is very influential oh and internet...can't forget the internet http://media.tumblr.com/87eb7bdb5bf7...7Re1qabo4g.gif so yea...I'm okay with the turtles acting like teens :3 it's kinda fun to watch in a way. |
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And if the name says they're teenagers, well, why not have them adapt some "teenage" characteristics? |
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XD what do you mean teenage characteristics?? :-? like the way they look? cause they can't change that. |
I choose some where in the middle. I think they have to be relatable to younger viewers cause "teenage" is in the name of the group. But I also think that no matter what kind of influence you grow up with, comics, tv, movies, etc, that boys will be boys. No matter where you go in the world, brothers are always going to tease and prank each other. There is always going to be the brotherly rivalry of who is tougher, smarter, or funniest. That should be the main thing that is comparable to human teens , not Mike using trendy slang or listening to an ipod.
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At first, I liked how the turtles were being portrayed in the Nick series, but now I think they went way too far with the whole "they're teenagers!" thing. It's almost as if the writers are trying a bit too hard to showcase their adolescence. I think it's good to explore the youthful side of the turtles and their curiosities outside of Splinter's training, but there's a point where gaining maturity needs to be consistent. In the 2k12 series, I've witnessed a lot of potential for growth among the turtles that is either completely forgotten/ignored in the next episode or never comes full circle. It's very disappointing, but they did this a bit in the 2k3 series as well, although I didn't mind it considering I found the turtles' portrayals to be consistent and logical (thank you, Mr. Laird) unlike with the Nick series.
I think the turtles being raised cut off from interacting with humans is something that should affect them socially; not so much in the spectrum of maturity because I find that largely depends on an individual's personality, like how Leo's quiet nature lends him to being more introspective and mature rather than Mikey's boisterous, light-hearted attitude. I also really love Splinter being obsessed with avenging Hamato Yoshi and raising his children as assassins. I think that side of him has so much juicy character potential to be explored and makes the TMNT storyline more gray than black and white, which is something it's been lacking for a while, I think. |
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Actually, I have to agree with that thought- most of what he built in the 4Kids show was based on Utrom tech. That made more sense to me than some of the things he came up with in the OT- like that personality modifier or his food revivafier.
As for making them "normal teenagers" in personality, I'd think it would be somewhat like a bunch of normal teens stuck on a deserted island, forced to use their wits and skills to survive while still keeping some semblance of a normal life and family. The only difference is they've been RAISED in that kind of isolation and harsh environment. However, given that they have ALWAYS had access to whatever form of media was available in any given time (that includes magazines, movies, music, and newspapers, BTW!!) they SHOULD have a decent grasp on what a "normal" life is like. They can watch TV, sneak out to see movies, read tossed-out mags and newspapers, or listen to the radio to learn what life is like outside the lair. I seriously doubt Splinter (outside of the original Mirage issues) would neglect their "normal" education, either. He would have taught them to read, write, math, etc- if only because ninjas have to be able to understand their surroundings and blend in to complete their goals. |
I always thought it was weird how obsessed people are with how the 2k12 turtles act like "normal" teenagers. They act like "normal" white middle class American teenage boys who are particularly annoying to each other, which is a little odd when they were were raised in isolation by a strict Japanese possibly Buddhist ninja master. Frankly I acted nothing like any of them as a teenager.
Kids still related to them in the Old Toon when they didn't act like "normal" teenagers. |
I like how they act like teenagers in the Nick show as you have to realize that teenagers today are very different from when a lot of us were growing up. They don't learn from their mistakes right away, and I like how the Nick Turtles have this as well. It does make them more flawed in that they are still learning and haven't quite gotten to that stage where they can learn from their mistakes once they make them. I know a lot of fans are annoyed by this, but I like it because it does make them seem more relatable. Heck, there are even adults who don't learn from mistakes all of the time, so for the Turtles to do this, too, is actually a good thing. I'm sure they will mature and grow as the season progresses, but it'll take time.
So, yeah, I don't mind them being portrayed as teenagers one bit. |
I think it's because in most incarnations outside mirage, they weren't being raised and trained to kill shredder. The ninjitsu was taught to them as a means to protect themselves from a hostile world that wouldn't understand them, not so they could live thier lives as fully trained ninja assassins. And that strict sensei/father realized that the true ninja way of life had gotten him/his master Yoshi burned (at least in some incarnations) and he wants to let the turtles live as normal of childhoods/teen years as possible for sewer-dwelling mutant freaks. Note the tvs and video games that line the lair in many versions, it could be argued a true ninja sensei might possibly forbid or at least minimize most of these distractions from their training. (though even then, they would still need some outlet.)
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For me, it is definitely the animations that makes me think of them as younger than in OT and 2k3. The first thing I thought, when I saw the turtles in the first Nick episode, was that they actually looked like teenagers this time.
I don't know, if I would have the same feeling of them being "normal teenagers" in a way, if they were looking more buff or edgier but still acting totally the same as they do now |
I don't see anything wrong with they act like teenagers.
Nick Splinter was human. It would make sense he'd try to raise them as human kids. The fact they're mutants and must be hidden away while not really cut off from stuff like computers, tvs and internet to shape them emotionally should help the suspension of disbelief that "they must be more mature". |
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