What would your version of TMNT II (1991) be like?
 

http://www.batman-online.com/forum/i...p?topic=2282.0

I was looking through this website and was surprised by how much they took from the mirage comics and it got me thinking. If they had done the same thing with second film, what influence would you have wanted to see from the comics? I know back then parents had a problem with the first films violence but just imagined the producers didn't have those restrictions and just continued with the first films tone.

More Vanilla Ice baby!!! LOL! Just kidding. I actually like the second movie and I guess the one thing I wish it had more of was more Super Shredder. It's like he mutates and then dies like 5 seconds later. I always thought Super Shredder was the coolest thing ever when I was little. So I would want more of him.

- Not goofy/overly childish.
- As dark and gritty as the first movie.
- Actually using their weapons
- Shredder actually dangerous, pose a threat and actually fighting
- Sad emotional scene (e.g. Raph and Splinter/campfire moments)
- epic final battle
- I don't mind no Casey Jones

You didn't think Super Shredder was dangerous or you just were like me in saying you would want more of him? For the record, I think the first movie is the greatest version of the Turtles ever on film. Including all the series and all the movies. I'm sure most here feel that way though huh?

I would have loved for Steve Baron to come back and basically adapt issue #4 of the Mirage comics along with his own spin on things. If he had to merge in a bit of Saki's return as the worm creature from "Return to New York", well...that would have been alright with me.

It's very tempting to say I'd have liked Baron to come back and do an even more Mirage inspired film... but ultimately, I'm glad we got what we got. It's kinda like the first film is based on the comics, and the second is more in line with the OT. & despite that, the one flows into the other almost seamlessly. It makes perfect sense that after the events of the first film, the turtles would feel like they could finally relax and be more carefree. With April getting them accustomed to the NY lifestyle above ground, there's no reason to question why they'd be more goofy & childlike, because they're truly happy now.

Keep Kevin Nash, and scrap the rest. :P

Nah, j/k. Although I would keep Nash, but more of an "enforcer" type. Think The Russian in "Punisher". He should be in everything. He's just so damn huge and intimidating up close, he's perfect for those Unstoppable Monster roles in movies. Super-Shredder was a waste of his talent, but to be fair, it was the first thing he ever did, and under that helmet, he had a really stupid-looking mohawk at the time.

I have no idea, specifically, how TMNT II should have gone, but I definitely would have appreciated something that felt more like a logical follow-up to the first, especially since it they ostensibly only took place a few days apart. It feels like an entirely different universe altogether, and I think that's what drags it down in comparison to the first. The conflicting tone, more than anything content-wise.

Except Vanilla Ice. That really had nothing to do with anything. I hate when movies get horribly dated because producers insist on stunt-casting some flavor-of-the-minute celebrity. Doesn't kill the movie, it's just annoying. Macy Gray in "Spider-Man", I'm lookin' at you.

Well put, Powder. I too enjoy SOTO for what it is. Some great family moments there, the voice acting is still solid, and the suits look great.

I still wish Baron would have returned but Secret of the Ooze is cool.

Doing the Utrom/Triceraton story in a movie would have been a disaster. I don't even want to think of how cheesy the special effects would look like with the Turtles in out of space. Plus the general public doesn't want to see the Turtles in space fighting aliens.

The first movie basically adapted issue 1, Raph micro, Leo micro, issue 10-11 and Return to New York (sorta).

I would have liked to see Baxter and the Mousers in the second movie, but other than that it makes no difference from what we got.

for the sake of nostalgia, i wouldn't change anything. As a kid, I loved the first movie, but i REALLY loved the 2nd movie. I was born in 87, so comics were not a part of my TMNT obsession. What I really loved was the cartoon, and the 2nd movie definitely more like the cartoon.

I can throw on any of the 3 movies or the earlier seasons of the OT and enjoy it, but my first choice is the 2nd movie.

I'd just add a better final fight scenes. Maybe do a bit more competent fight choreography with the Foot.

That Perry was supposed to be an Utrom is cool and all, but it just seemed like a sudden M. Night twist. Nothing was ever hinted at that he was a squid alien piloting a robotic body. And changing TCRI to TGRI kinda makes Utroms irrelevant in the movie-verse, and it's a lot to digest for one movie already dealing with multiple mutants and the return of the Foot.

I'd have a similar plot, but the tone of it would match the first movie and Steve Barron would be back as director. Throw Casey back into the mix (or at the very least, give a reason as to why he's missing) and replace Tokka and Rahzar with Bebop and Rocksteady.

I would've kept that same basic plot, except-

-Tone would've been more like the first movie, less goofy cartoony fights, more first movie ninja-like action.

-rocksteady and bebop instead of tokka and rhazar. dumb but dangerous psycos instead of babies.

-baxter stockman in place of jordan perry, manevolent scientist willingly helping shredder, instead of turtle friend.

-longer super shredder fight.

and that's about it

This is a cool way of looking at the trilogy. It definitely has this kind of feeling. Nothing beats the first in my book.

It wasn't that bad. It just needed minor tweaks.

-Keep the weapons
-make Shredder and Super Shredder actually fight
-normal Tokka and Rahzar. Either make them monsterous or talk... I just didn't really like the baby thing
-Bring back Casey or at least mention him in passing, like where was he or what? It was like he didn't exist in the sequel.

Exactly. If you REALLY watch the first movie, other than the fact that Raph nearly died, swore a bit, and they had to come with terms that Splinter might be dead, they were pretty much silly and goofy throughout the movie. Most of their fighting, except for Raph against all the Foot and the fight with Shredder, were full of OT shenanigans. Their silly goofy selves in the sequel weren't that far off from the original.

Stick with Peter Laird's ideas.

I would have just let them use their weapons a lot more and had Shredder actually fight them again. I think the only punches he threw were at the pillars holding up the dock. He threw Leonardo but that was the only "harm" he physically put on them. A wimp Shredder who didn't fight (along with the weapons being forbidden) slaughtered that movie.

If I had to change it...

I would have had Eddie Murphy cast as Stockman and Gary Busey as the Rat King. Stockman's Mousers are on the lose robbing banks and creating havoc when out of the blue they stumble into the Rat Kings lair. The Rat King is enraged by this and decides to go after Stockman and the city of New York with a subdued Splinter. The Turtles must get Splinter back on their side and stop both baddies from destroying the city.

Busey as Ratking is genius.

Excactly like it is now. I love TMNT 2. Still not as good as the first one, but still great. Better than the third one, that's for sure....

I completely agree with that, especially about the part where you spoke about them getting comfortable above ground. It would definitely lead to them being a bit more cocky, which in turn lead to a few of their mis-steps in the movie.

Right on. This, in its entirety, is the reason why I fell in love with the boys in green. (Every RPG rendition that I did of them was normally based from TMNT I and the comics with my own personal tweeks.) I think this is also why, as much as some people might disagree with this, I have a strong love for the 2007 movie. It felt to me that they brought back some of that edge, especially in the family dynamics.

OT: As difficult as it would be for some fans to work through and accept the idea of Splinter dying, I would love to see that actually addressed in a movie.

I would have it keep the PG rating but I would keep the grit of the original. I would have it follow a premise that TMNT 3 tried to have where the turtles think about "Is this the rest of our lives? Fighting crime and living in the sewers?" And I would have Shredder's daughter (I seriously forget her name at the moment) and Dogpound be the villains. Shredder's daughter will hunt the turtles for revenge on Shredder.

Utroms

The mutagen (not the turtles...) being of extraterrestrial origin shall be one of the foundations of every single TMNT universe. The movies were good, but removing this was nothing interesting.

I loved TMNT 2. I'd leave it as is. But, if I can change any movie, it'd definitely be Turtles 3.

- Keep the same tone as the first film
- Keep the same Turtle designs from Movie 1 (SOTO gave them bigger eyes to appear more friendly)
- Ditch Keno and give Casey Jones a role
- Introduce Utroms
- "Ninja Rap" would only be in the closing credits
- Tokka and Rahzar either replaced by Bebop and Rocksteady or scrapped altogether
- Actually show that the events of the previous film had changed and matured the Turtles
- TCRI

Why exactly did the weapons start to disappear? Was there some sort of campaign against the use of Ninja weapons in movies at the time?

I can agree with most of that...


The producers wanted to make it less violent and more kid friendly if I remember correctly. Cant exactly be kid friendly when you have giant turtles killing foot soldiers which is why I wish they woukd make the foot clan robots

- I would've kept the darkness of the first movie. Add a 13 behind that PG lol
- Easter Eggs (hints at other characters/plot lines/dimensions in the TMNT universe)
- Bring back Casey!
- Bebop/Rocksteady over Tokka/Rahzar
- Take risks (like the first film)
- More SuperShredder

And honestly a better question for a thread would be.. what would your TMNT 3 look like?!

Dunno if you mentioned these because of this but an interesting fact is that SOTO was originally going to have both of those things. The professor was going to be revealed to be an utrom. B&R were looked at for the mutant roles but ultimately deemed far too costly to make, which is when they asked Kev & Pete to design some new ones (though I'm sure Kev is the one who came up with Tokka & Rahzar).

If Bebop/Rocksteady were going to be in this movie I sure hope they were humans instead of normal animals.

Thankfully back in 1991 there was so many black guys who looked just like Bebop, they would only have to dye their hair purple. Bebop was like the perfect portrayal of 80's black street punks. They really nailed his design based on the time period.

This is it in a nutshell.... Slightly darker tone.... Use their weapons more and give us beebop and rocksteady.... The fact that shredder creates two slightly incompetent hench men and they decide to make up two new ones made no sense.... Get casey in there somewhere...

I would have loved to see a real battle at the end with super shredder....come on...this could have been an awesome scene and hes on screen for what 40 seconds? Cut down the ninja rap sequence and give us a finale....

The utrom scene would have been awesome.... I know it was cut due to budget i believe but that would have been a sick twist at the end....as a 5 yr old kid at the time i know my mind would have been blown

Are you out of your mind? If they made it based on the Triceraton/Utrom story arc it would have been incredible.

The Triceratons would have looked incredible, look at how Jim Henson's Creature shop handled the Dinosaurs tv show. This would have kept a lot of kids who were my age interested. This movie was the beginning of the end of my childhood TMNT fandom.

More Super Shredder, less cheesy-ness.

(Keep Vanilla though)

Basically go into the next chapter in the Mirage comics like TCRI, Stockman with Mousers, Utroms, maybe Renet, and continue to have Steve Barron to direct it. Keep it dark and gritty with the style of dark lighting and the usage of their weapons.

My take, in more detail (events stick with what already happens in movie, except where noted);

-Start the movie off with a gang of punks robbing the mall, and Keno Spots them. He manages to knock a few out, but they get the drop on him and it looks like it's curtians. When something knocks one of the gun-toting punks away, and we get a serious ninja fight sequence (instead of the cartoony slapstick one from the film) As the groggy Keno comes to, he catches a glimpse of the mysterious green ninjas who saved him as they vanish.

-The turtles celebrate back at April's apartment, where April makes a remark that things between her and Casey 'didn't work out', dismissing him from the film. Meanwhile, at a dockside Warehouse that serves as the foot's fallback HQ, Tatsu (still sporting a bruise on his noggin from the fight with Casey) gathers the remaining foot ninja that didn't get picked up by the police or desert the clan, and swears revenge on the Turtles for killing thier 'father'.

-When he demands if anyone will step forward and challenge him, a shadowy figure emgerges in the warehouse, and kicks Tatsu's rear. But this is not Oroku Saki, who was actually crushed in the garbage truck here. No... this is Oroku NAGI! Saki's older brother from Japan who had discovered his brother's death, and now wants revenge. Tatsu is confused- he had head Nagi had been killed years ago- but as he seeks the Same goal as the dead Saki's brother, he accepts Nagi's leadership. Nagi dons the Armor and becomes the new shedder, and after hearing of the turtles and the reporter, sends a foot ninja to spy on the Reporter as april's cameraman.

-April does a report on TCRI labs, where Professor Jordan Perry is doing a toxic waste cleanup operation which he's not telling April the whole truth about. We then see Perry back at his lab, disposing of the last known canisters of mutagen from the batch, and talking to a bunch of his rats in the maze. We get the idea Perry prefers them, to his fellow humans who so carelessly buried the toxic waste years before. After the little song and dance where a suspicious Keno discovers the turtles, and the discovery of the new lair, Splinter sees the news report on TV and sends the turtles to investigate. Seeing a mutated flower from the site his spy brought him, Shredder sends Tatsu and the foot to the lab, where after a pitched battle with the turtles they take both Perry and the ooze.

-When shedder discovers 'the secret of the ooze', he has his foot ninja steal a rhino and a warthog from the local zoo, and shredder has them mutated into two fierce monsters- rocksteady and bebop, who have animal intelligence and are not idiots (Perry names them after his two favorite musical styles). Keno goes on a uncover mission to the foot, that ends up with the turtles coming to his rescue. While they handle the foot ninja easily, the two mutants beat them sensless, and force the turtles to flee- but not before they rescue Professor Perry and Keno. Shredder is impressed by how Rocksteady and Bebop sucseeded where the foot ninja failed.

-Perry tells them how the ooze was an accident, and they agree they have to get the ooze away from the foot. After having his two 'pets' that impritned on him rampage and kill dozens of people throughout the city, Shredder challenges the turtles to a final battle at the Docks. (I picture the two appearing like they did in that early Eastman and laird concept art from OT- dangerous monsters clad in scraps of armor, instead of street punks)

-Meanwhile, Tatsu confronts Nagi about rebuilding the foot after the Turtles and the Rat are killed, and Nagi reveals he has no intention of doing so. He tells Tatsu that the Foot had thier day, and a ninja clan must adapt and take on whatever new waepons and strengths will allow them to win. Nagi tells Tatsu that he and his human foot have served thier purpose, and he will rebuild the clan with an army of mutants! Futhermore, Nagi tells Tatsu that he was the one who convinced his younger brother that he had been dishonored by Yoshi and Tang Shen, and commanded him to follow his former friend and former love to new york and take thier lives. Nagi stared the whole cycle of vengence to make a man out of his brother, by having Saki eliminate Shen- his only connection with love or any other sort of human emotion. Feeling betrayed, Tatsu attacks Nagi, who quickly kills him. Drinking a small vial of the ooze, Nagi begins to transform...

-The turtles, April, Keno, and Perry comes to retieve the ooze, only to find the foot being all killed by Rocksteady, Bebop, and the newly mutated Super shredder. The Turtles duke it out with the three mutants in an epic battle, while Keno and April plant Donatello's explosives all over the piers the way donnie instructed them. The canister of remaining mutagen is knocked from Super Shredder's grasp, and shatters on Perry as he tries to retieve it. The professor flees with his face burning from the ooze. Finally Donnie sets the explosives off just as the turtles jump clear as all the docks explode, and the three mustants are sent flying and swept out to sea. With the New york Foot entirely wiped out and both of the brothers Oroku dead, it seems the Turtles Splinter, Keno, April, and the turtles return to the new lair to celebrate, with Splinter declaring the cycle of revenge has finally come to a close.

-In another part of the sewer, we see a scarred and mutated Professor perry, all covered in rags and bandages and swearing that his revenge has just begun. And all around him, are swarming the rats of the sewers, awnering the call sent out by the mutagen-given powers of thier new king...

...and that's what I would've done! The whole mirage cycle of vengance, with OT elements thrown in for the kiddies! :D

Instead of The Shredder climbing out of the trash himself, I would have Tatsu and a few remaining foot conducting a search party for his body and they find him alive, but far more injured than how he was portrayed in the 2nd film.

A few months pass and the Turtles are living with Casey, rather than April. Raph and Casey go out most nights trawling for gang members, sometimes the rest of the Turtles join them, but they are increasingly enjoying the finer points of living above ground. Donnie starts playing with different types of technology, Mikey reads comics, Leo studies various martial art forms, yet is seemingly less confident than he was before nearly dying at Shredders hand. Splinter is the calming influence on the house and is still not well after the events of the 1st movie.

All of the Turtles except for Raph start to yearn to be able to live normal social lives.

Baxter Stockman and the mousers are introduced much like Perry was, in an interview with April.

The Shredder and Tatsu are trying to recruit more members for The Foot, but due to Aprils exclusive on the clan post the 1st movie, people are reluctant to join. Then Shredder is informed of Baxter and his mousers, seeing an opportunity, he kidnaps him and his tech. At this point Shredder would be portrayed as still recovering from the garbage truck at this point, but still able to fight to some degree. Not well enough to face the turtles himself, though.

Freddy, Aprils cameraman\assistant would tail April to Casey's place, giving The Shredder the Turtles location and a target for the mousers.

In the meantime, Baxter is working on a project, separate from the mousers for The Shredder. Only glimpses of tech are seen.

Shredder unleashes the mousers onto Casey's place. The Turtles and Casey deal with them with a bit of difficulty. Tatsu is disgruntled that his more traditional ways of dealing with things are being overlooked.

It comes to light Baxter is missing and he gets painted as the villain in the media.

One of the mousers from the assault on Casey's place returns with blood on it's jaws. The Shredder makes Baxter try to extract the mutational properties from it. Baxter gets enough from it to synthesize a crude form of ooze.

Weeks pass and the Turtles find their own place. Casey stays with them. They still can't track down Baxter.

After some refinement on the ooze, Bebop and Rocksteady are created and a very similar street destruction scene from the 2nd movie plays out with Bebop and Rocksteady substituting Tokka and Razor.

Freddy reveals himself to April and tells her that The Turtles are to be at a construction site that night(pretty much exactly like the 2nd movie.).

The Turtles and Casey show up and see the Shredder and The Foot. Leo is noticeably shaken by this. The fight begins. Bebop and Rocksteady are rendered unconscious by a cattle prod type device Donnie has made. The fight with The Foot ensues. Soon the Turtles and Casey realize that the majority of the Foot they are battling are robots dressed in Foot garb.

The Turtles and Casey battle their way through the Foot subsequently, Shredder pulls a vile of ooze and drinks it.

Super Shredder is unleashed. The Turtles and Casey are overpowered and have no choice but to get Stockman and retreat.

The Turtles, Splinter and Casey prepare for what could be their final battle, against Bebop, Rocksteady and The Super Shredder.

...or something like that. Sorry for the long post, I got carried away.

Pretty much what was stated here a few times already--unleash Barron on a sequel with a little more creative control. Ramp up the sci-fi element slightly, keep Hoag as April, stick with the high-key lighting and contrasty film stocks... more of a sequel to the original film than the lighter romp we wound up with. A fantasy/sci-fi/comedy martial arts film from the Golden Harvest gang... what's not to love?! It could have been fun!

Don't get me wrong, I have a ton of nostalgic love for SOTO, but it could have been way better.