Japanese or English?
 

When the turtles are in the lair with Splinter, do they speak Japanese or English? Even if it's English to us, can we be sure it's in-universe?

I do like the idea that they speak Japanese when it's just them and Splinter, but the "teen slang" they use at times suggests otherwise.

I like to think they can speak both, though.

Hmm. Interesting question as far as '87 goes. I've assumed it for probably being like other versions that use a lot of English with some Japanese thrown in.

Would be beneficial to raise them fluent in English for their own safety in the world above them, thus using English a lot at home from the time they were little. But can't see Splinter not raising them to be by lingual in his own language, and on the other hand, being able to be fluent in a language less commonly understood around there would also be a plus if they were within earshot of anyone who shouldn't be in on what they're saying. Perfect way for Leo to give team commands around non-Japanese speaking enemies. And I'm sure good fluency probably needs to be learned at home.

I vote a solid "both."

For my personal take, they absolutely would speak both, and probably in the same mix of ways that most fluently bilingual families talk to each other in the exchange of their two different languages. Splinter would see the need for them to understand English, but also wouldn't want to separate them from the heritage he was raising them on. (On that subject, Splinter assumes Shredder is dead in my take, and teaches them martial arts while in the sewers because he feels it's the biggest family tradition he can pass on to them, since he lacks most of his family's possessions save for the weapons - which he of course has to teach them to use anyway. So he might as well go for the full works)

But the turtles would speak to April and Casey exclusively in English -save for Japanese grumblings if they feel the need to backtalk them without noticing. They'd also speak to Shredder and Karai in Japanese.

I can see Donatello wanting to learn more languages, and probably learns some Latin from the scientist April, who isn't exactly the best teacher in that aspect, but can give him the basics for him to pick up the rest of himself.

This is for any series. It's under "General TMNT discussion".

Interesting question, I can't think of any direct evidence against it.

Why it is more an unknown for the first cartoon imo, as I don't recall much use of Japanese between Splinter and the Turtles there, so... maybe?

The two other cartoons we have (so far) already throw in some Japanese (albeit not a lot), so I take it as their spoken English really is English, not just viewer convenience; since both are already present in those series.



Edit: Although '87 Splinter's Japanese should be a little questionable, given the times he's shouted "Sacagawea!" before attacking. lol (Though I assume that is just mostly cluless late 80s/early 90s writers trying to be silly...)

I don't think of the turtles as knowing Japanese, at least in the animated shows, movies and few comics that I'm familiar with there has never been evidence besides that Splinter should or could know.

This is something Pete/Kevin probably never realized when creating the franchise. You make a series where Splinter was owned by a Japanese man and thus should speak Japanese. He should also bring up the Turtles speaking Japanese as his sons. But the Turtles speak like American teenagers.

TMNT was created before the whole anime craze hit the U.S., I don't think Peter or Kevin even knew what anime was back in 1984...hell the Dragonball manga didn't even start till 1986.

The 4kids series had them knowing at least a little Japanese.

I'm sure they knew what manga was but they just didn't care enough.

Bilingual families also don't just speak both languages necessarily, I'd guess it's usually one that is spoken. My family is a test to that and I know of others that are similar.

Also Splinter was a Japanese rat but he mutated in the US, so as he mutated I guess that's where he might've learned from books or what not same with the turtles, they learned from American media. I do think Splinter would know Japanese but only him I would guess. Obviously in the OT he knew Japanese but he just didn't pass that knowledge off.

Doubtful. Any kind of language would have had to have been developed in New York, just from hearing people talk, TV, and stringing sentences together. I doubt Splinter or the Turtles even ever knew how to speak full-on Japanese. Maybe later in life.

They were fans of the classic Samurai manga "Lone Wolf and Cub" at least.

And, if Splinter can pick up Ninjutsu from Yoshi, I think he can pick up Japanese from Yoshi (even if it didn't make sense until after he mautated).

Splinter is usually portrayed as speaking accented English, which makes me think his first language is something other than English. Where as the turtles don't get the same affectation.

I've always assumed Splinter to be bilingual, with the turtles being varying levels of bilingual depending, but that at home they're likely to speak more English than anything.

Splinter doesn't have an accent in the comics. And I'm pretty sure he has a Japanese accent in the cartoons and movies because Fred Wolf did it, and Fred Wolf wanted him to be Mr. Miyagi. Now everyone expects him to sound like that.

I figure in his spare time when he wasn't whipping the Turtles into killing shape he probably read up on Japan, the culture, the history, and maybe began to learn the language... but I hardly think it was his first language or this thing that's embedded in him.

Depends on if he was Splinter the normal rat or Hamato Yoshi before mutation.

The normal rat? Then seeing how he only understood language in America, he shouldn't have an accent. (Mirage, 4Kids.)

Everything else, he is Hamato Yoshi first... so definitely Japanese as his first language.

That goes without saying.

Not necessarily, sometimes people blend languages or speak in one language most of the time but break it for certain phrases. For instance, if you watch the Korean TV show Boys Over Flowers, they speak in Korean but occasionally an English phrase will slip in.

I imagine it's similar for the turtles.

Not to mention the how it would rock with more of the man against man-fights between Shredder and Splinter in Japanese.

Not like say Banshee in X-Men, but I'd say an argument for accented English could be made from the cadence of his speech patterns.

Splinter might be a riff on Miller's Stick, but he's got more in common with the tropes Old Master and Magical Asian.

But martial arts films, many based on China, Hongkong and Japan had been popular circa 10 years before the TMNT were created.

Yeah, how many times have we heard Kevin tells us that he and Pete were up far too late at night watching Hong Kong Movie theater, which were on basic television in a time prior to most people having cable.

I've seen/heard that plenty of times with friends who learned English as a second language early in life. (As well as customers in the store I work at.) I always figured that English may have just been the simpler/shorter way of saying something, whatever said 'something' was.

Such as in reverse... a very longtime Filipino friend once told me her language has a word specific to a specific "feeling at Christmas time," while English has no real equivalent. We'd have to take a whole sentence to describe what her original language can with one word.

Christmas spirit
 

Isn't "Christmas spirit" the word(s) you look for?

Mm, they never speak it in front of Casey, April or anyone else, so I doubt it.

In IDW, we know that Mikey is the only one who has recalled his native tongue thus far (and even then it looks like he can translate Kanji to English, but doesn't necessarily speak Japanese). Also, in Mirage the only turtle who spoke actual Japanese outside of single words and phrases was Raph when he took over The Foot in the Image run.

I don't want to seem pedantic, but that's really a phrase rather than an individual word.

On a fun note, our language can be partially created by our environment so the Inuits have around 50 words for snow and ice. It's the default so it makes sense to name every type of snow and ice where as where I live, it doesn't snow very often so we only need one word for it. The main exception is frost and ice but we get enough frost and ice every winter to need different words for it.

This has led me to another thought regarding the linguistics of the turtles and Splinter: essentially they've formed their own community and society (although arguably you could say the same about any family), but theirs is more independent of a mainstream civilization. Perhaps a sort of hybrid language could end up evolving from it?

Exactly, just like there's some South Sea islands culture that has like hundreds of words for boat.

Don't think so, since according to the friend there isn't really a true English equivalent. (Maybe there are religious and cultural elements that separate it.)

Dragon Ball was first published in 84 BTW.

I share this thought.

I know we discussed this before but I can't find the thread. We even got a response about it from Peter, if I recall.

edit: Found at least the Peter stuff, from this thread http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...06&postcount=5

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....24407163642561
Someone else does here
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....82445473376943

Love bilingual Turtles, even though it doesn't show up very often.

Image Volume 3, IDW's "Secret History of the Foot Clan", and... did Nick or Archie ever do this?

I would say both. Leo would probably speak Japanese most often, especially with Splinter. Don would speak it a bit less, and Raph probably only when neccessary. Then again, he called Don out on his poor Japanese in TMNT III, so maybe he would be fairly fluent. Mikey might use it mainly to read mangas, but not speak it much.

(I have a personal headcanon that they can ALL speak it fluently but choose not to most of the time- but might revert to it when angry by cursing in it.)

That was the anime. The manga started in December of 84.

FWIW, Splinter's the only one of the family that has "Speak - Japanese" as a skill in the Palladium game.

Good catch! But that was written when all we had was Mirage and the original cartoon. Was Archie around then? I think if they updated it now they might all have it as a skill.

I like the idea of them knowing Japanese, but there's not really much good reason for Splinter to teach it to them, even assuming he knows it at all.

Nope, not yet. "TMNT and Other Strangeness" has a publishing date of 1985, while Fred Wolf didn't come out until 1987, with Archie not publishing until 1988.

I assume the TMNT are too Americanized and speak English all the time, not unlike most Japanese-Americans that were born and raised in the U.S and never set foot in Japan their entire lives.

My Grandmother speaks Croatian but none of her children do. I think that's pretty common.