Is Magneto a hero, not a villain?

[plastroncafe]

He seeks to subvert the status quo and treat non-mutants the way they have always treated mutants.

What I find interesting is that this sort of thing should turn more people towards Xavier's way of thinking, and make those in power reconsider the way they treat others not like themselves.

Instead though, and this is where it's frustratingly close to the way things seem to work, the powers that be get afraid of being treated the way they treat others...and so they treat those others even more harshly.

He is a terrorist, albeit a sympathetic one, but he's not really looking for change so much as he is taking someone's office.

[PangolinFeets]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

Yeah, you ain't kidding. I think I've enjoyed pretty much everything featuring Magneto. Still haven't gotten around to giving Watchmen a try yet. I probably should.

It's generally considered the greatest graphic novel ever written and is repeatedly listed among the greatest modern novels so yea. Everyone should. Lol

[plastroncafe]

The only problem I had with Watchmen, was that because so many things are derivative of it, it doesn't read anywhere near as groundbreaking as it should.
Or at least it didn't to me.

I found I had the same problem with Tolkien.

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by Darth Knuckles

I'm a big X-Men movie fan so I base almost all of my judgements of the characters through the movie universe. I definitely like Magneto more in the franchise than I do Charles Xavier. (Although I do like Patrick Stewart)

Especially through X-Men: First Class, I really feel like I understand why Magneto would do the things he does. Right after Magneto and Charles stop Sebastian Shaw's plan to create a war that would have been based on manipulation, both sides of the humans decide to attack the mutants that just saved them from the war. I know the humans would be freaked out by what they just saw, but they shouldn't have both thought to kill them because they were uncomfortable and didn't know who saved them.

I can definitely understand Magneto's reasoning to never chance trusting the humans again just off of that one instance, let alone his past in the concentration camp. He thinks the way he does because both he and his race are constantly being attacked by the humans. He feels they have to attack back to stay alive. He doesn't want his kind to have to hide because they are different and humans are uncomfortable with that. Especially since the humans' reaction is usually experimentation or death. Having that be the humans means of dealing with mutants, I can understand Magneto's reaction against the humans as well.

I must also explain that because this is a fictitious situation, that's why I side with Magneto in this case as well. I'm not necessarily bringing these same factors and findings into the real world. A lot of these issues are also based off of real world issues and I'm not judging the real world in the exact same way I'm judging the fictional X-Men universe per say.

In the X-Men world, I see Charles as a bit too hopeful and naive in certain instances. And I see Magneto recognizing that as a plus. After all, in X-Men: Days of Future Past, Magneto is found to be the one who was right about the humans in the future version of the timeline anyway. So yeah in the X-Men movie universe, I'd definitely say I'm way in favor of Magneto as opposed to Charles. (Michael Fassbender as Magneto is very awesome to watch as well.)

I think the new movies make Magneto a little easier to sympathize with (which I think makes for better movies). But in X2, he attempted to use the bootleg Cerebro too kill every non-mutant on the planet at once. Hitler's got nothing on this guy.

And, even in the best light, he's still pretty bad. He attempted to mutate the world's leaders to make a point. He was willing to destroy all those ships as muscle-flexing, so the people of the world would fear mutants. He wanted to do the same thing in DoFP. Maiming and killing to push a political ideal or to strike fear into people is the definition of terrorism. And really, most of the X-Men movies climax with Magneto attempting a grand act of terrorism. (I'm not sure I'd call fighting for the cure in X3 "terrorism," and his attempt in X2 was straight up genocide.)

[Gunpowder]

Took me some time to gather my thoughts on this, but here's my input: Magneto is just as much in the wrong as the humans who spite him. It's certainly not okay that he and his kindred were oppressed by humans for so long, and for things they couldn't control. But does that make it okay, decades down the road, for that to turn on itself, in that he oppresses the oppressors? Well, I suppose that's up for debate. But it all boils down to the oh-so-familiar concept of a tooth for a tooth. What you're saying here is that, essentially, it's okay to throw a punch as long as the other person threw one first. It's all about fairness, and justice, and - synonymous, but more negative-sounding - vengeance. Magneto's entire philosophy, according to what I've read here, revolves around a burning hatred towards the humans, because they have historically been incapable of accepting those who are different. And that hatred is a direct result of, as you put it, the people's "hatred and fear of 'the other'." So, in essence, "hatred" is the entire cause of the dilemma, and that's never a good sign.

But, more to the point, here's why I don't think Magneto should be considered a hero: attacking people and overpowering them accomplishes absolutely nothing, in regards to heroism. It only makes him a hypocrite. Sure, his views are justified, and it's wrong what the humans did to him. But his goal is to make them see mutants and outsiders as equals. Conquering them and slaughtering them doesn't accomplish that; it doesn't even hope to accomplish that. It only reverses their roles, and the problem continues. Instead of fighting for equality, it becomes a contest of power. Thirst for power sounds more like a villainous quality than a heroic one. Agree?

Also, this especially caught my attention:

Originally Posted by Davetello

People in this world are really living in la la land if they think that significant social change can occur WITHOUT violence. It simply cannot happen - governments, racists etc will only respond to threats and malevolence, as that is all they know. Pacifism is completely alien to them.

This gives me a better idea of where you're coming from. But I have to disagree. Violence is almost never the answer, in fact. I've had this debate a few times before, and I usually like to reference the character Hester Prynne in Nathaniel Hawthorne's "The Scarlet Letter." In case you aren't familiar with her, she had a glorious 'A' embroidered on her clothing for having committed adultery, and because of that, was permanently cast aside in her community, disdained, and treated like garbage. It remained that way for nearly her whole lifespan. However, ultimately, the people's scorn for her seemed to lessen with time, and they even began to respect her for having undergone that consequence for so long. They began to "feel sorry" for her, and after a while, she ceased to be a target of ridicule. Why? Because she was able to cope with her shame, and so eventually the masses found no satisfaction in milking that shame. Thus, she (unofficially) was accepted back into her community.

In this case, that example is slightly less relevant because Magneto did nothing wrong (whereas Prynne committed adultery). But my point still stands: acting rashly as a reaction to rashness only extends the issue. This is about to take a bit of a turn...but look at the situation of homosexuals. 50 years ago, that was voodoo. It was evil, and no one - NO ONE - could accept that idea. But, now that it's had time to settle in, it's becoming more readily accepted and even embraced. Of course, there will always be some sense of controversy over it, but minor at best. Same thing with black people; same thing with people who are left-handed; same thing with tattoos; and same thing with other minorities. The reason these issues have become less of a huge deal is because people have used non-violent means of supporting them. That's why so many things that are frowned upon today will be an everyday sight in 30 years. People get over things. Unwillingness to accept new things is just part of human nature, but that unwillingness is only temporary.

Again, I'm not 100% sure that this can be applied to Magneto, because I'm unfamiliar with his entire backstory. However, since you relate him to other minorities, I feel like what I'm saying is at least somewhat applicable. I don't think Magneto is a hero, but I also don't consider him a full-on villain. Like others have said, it's ambiguous. But certainly NOT a hero. Maybe he is in the eyes of his fellow mutants, but not in mine.

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Magneto is certainly no hero, as he believes one race deserves to lord over another. And he's genocidal.

But his views are somewhat justified, even if his solutions are wrong. Kind of like how Xavier's has this endless well of hope, when things never, ever get better. They're both wrong. Xavier's philosophy of peace doesn't bring change, and Magneto's courses of action are far too drastic (and violent). So while they're friends, they will forever take different approaches to the challenges the mutant race faces.

That's at the core of what X-Men is. It's not black and white, good guys vs bad guys.

And that's why they have the best movies

This guy hit the nail on the head.