Is Magneto a hero, not a villain?

[Davetello]

This should probably be in the comics section but I felt it might receive more exposure here. It also really fits on a forum about the Ninja Turtles, as it's about discrimination and difference.

The more I learn about the X-Men and watch the movies, the more I feel myself empathising with Magneto. I really understand why he's doing what he's doing. I don't claim to be an expert on the X-Men at all, but I know enough to know what Magneto's motivations are.

Magneto grew up the son of Jews, oppressed in a Nazi concentration camp. He witnessed family members die. As he grew older and learned how to control his powers, he didn't want what happened to the jews to ever happen to the mutants. He knew that hatred and fear of 'the other' or that which is different would never be eradicated or even lessened to any significant degree, so he took the steps to kill even innocents in the war against humanity.

Magneto wants mutants to be superior to human beings, and believes that they are. He wants mutants to supersede humanity as the hegenomic species on the planet. For me, he's actually right - humanity has proved time and again that it will not accept others - those of different colour, the disabled, those of a differing religion, and yes, mutants. Because humanity is generally so concerned with such petty things, and is determined to destroy some people's lives simply because they are different, Magneto is right to act as judge and jury. You could argue the mutants are doing the same thing, but I disagree - Magneto and the brotherhood are reactionaries. They didn't start this nonsense, and they're giving humanity precisely what it deserves.

Imagine you're Magneto and you have these powers, the ability to overpower governments, armies. If you felt this betrayed by society, that the treatment was unfair, would you really keep that power in check? He's fuelled by an understandable rage and he wants vengeance - vengeance which he's entitled to, because everything he suffered is still happening to others. Nothing has changed since World War II.

The X-Men on the other hand are naive to think they can ever find a solution peacefully, and deep down Xavier probably knows that. People in this world are really living in la la land if they think that significant social change can occur WITHOUT violence. It simply cannot happen - governments, racists etc will only respond to threats and malevolence, as that is all they know. Pacifism is completely alien to them.

It has been said that Magneto is based on Malcolm X and Professor X on Martin Luther King. I'm not sure how true that is but the general characterisation does seem to fit.

So, overall, I think that Magneto is right, and not only do I not consider him a villain or even an antihero, but I believe that he's the hero of the X-Men franchise. He was the only one who thought "you know what, screw this, we're fighting a losing battle here against people who will never see us as equals and will only ever give us their scraps. I'm going to turn that on its head: not only will we match humanity, but we will overtake them and let them see how it feels to be treated as they're treating us and other marginalised groups".

One flaw here is that discriminated against humans - blacks, disabled, the poor etc - will still be victims of Magneto's agenda, despite the fact that they probably have more in common with the mutants than they have ever had with humanity. Perhaps something could be done about that.

Apologies if this is a controversial topic.

[CyberCubed]

The best written incarnations of Magento is when he is three dimensional and you can understand why he's doing what he's doing. Of course when he decides to go on a killing spree against innocent humans and X-men...then he falls into villain territory.

Depending on which comics you're reading, which cartoons or which movies...Magneto can be sympathetic or a mass murderer. It really depends on the writers.

[Jester]

Anti-hero...maybe?

The best villains, like Cubed said, aren't "evil" per say, it's just that their means to an end, their methods, are questionable. Magneto, when done right, you understand his motives, even if you disagree with his execution.

Kinda like Gargoyles' Demona.

[Candy Kappa]

The best villains are the hero in their own story.

[HotNunchuckFury]

This is one reason I loved watching the X-men cartoons as a kid, it was never as black and white as good versus evil like most of the others. Although I wasn't aware of his background then as shown in the films, his old friendship with Charles made me question his true nature and motives. But to summise, Magneto is definitely a villain in my eyes as he has no qualms about destroying innocent lives to meet his goal, but in that sense most of the humans in the show are also villains by default. X-men are the true heroes, even if you think their methods are naive, they fight for what they believe in, in a way that doesn't harm the innocent. May take longer to reach the desired result, but sacrificing core values of empathy and compassion isn't an option for heroes.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Originally Posted by Jester

Anti-hero...maybe?

The best villains, like Cubed said, aren't "evil" per say, it's just that their means to an end, their methods, are questionable. Magneto, when done right, you understand his motives, even if you disagree with his execution.

Kinda like Gargoyles' Demona.

Funny, the Nostalgia Critic and and I think the same thing.

[snake]

Magneto is a complicated character. Currently in the comics, he's almost a hero.

[blindturtle02]

Nice thread, Dave. I've always seen Magneto to be a sort of antihero as well. Haven't gotten around to reading the comics, but from what I have seen of him in the 90's animated series and in the films, he does seem like he has every right to want justice. Well in his case, it feels more like vengeance, but there you go. Ya know, I've met a few blind folks who are similar to Magneto in some ways. Now, I don't know that many because I never attended one of those schools sans visiting on occasion, but I do remember hearing from a girl who got the snot beaten out of her at an arcade simply because she wasn't your every day kid with 2020 vision. The guys who did it got in some serious trouble, but I don't think it was enough for her. She said she wished she could gouge their eyes out so they'd gain a better understanding of her situation. Ouch. Sh developed a hatred for quite a lot of the folks who could see, and for the way some people in society react by either completely ignoring or fearing what they don't understand. How sad.

I love that Magneto takes matters into his own hands whenever he witnesses the persecution of other mutants. When Beast was imprisoned for attempting to destroy files the government had on mutants in season 1 of the animated series, Magneto just busted in and undoubtedly would have freed him if he hadn't insisted on being tried in order to help bridge that gap between human and mutant. Eric kept trying to explain to him that the legal system was a joke where mutants were concerned. I loved how he reacted to Beast's surroundings when he broke in. "Are these the people who's laws you trust? They don't seem to share your sense of... brotherhood." I always wanted to see Erik take on the Friends of Humanity introduced in the second season.

I understand where Erik is coming from when wanting some folks to receive their just deserts. There's a point in time when enough is just friggin enough, and sometimes you've got to let people know you mean business similar to the way Magneto handles things. But I guess I've always related to Xavier too. I feel that hatred and misunderstanding only tends to lead to more of the same. Funnily enough, the Weird Sisters in Gargoyles said the same thing about Demona and the whole vicious cycle of vengeance and hatred. I think some of Magneto's actions unintenssionally painted mutants in a darker light. Guess I tend to feel the same way when some blind folks exhibit such a hatred for those who have abused them physically etc. That girl used to look at nearly all,"sighties," through the derision colored glasses of her attackers. Yes, that's what she'd call people who can see. Magneto also views humanity in this way.

I liked seeing Charles and Erik working together. In spite of their differences, they both respected one another. After a while, it seemed like Charles realized that one needs to take matters into his or her own hands in order to make a change. I think he started getting through to Magneto too by the end of the animated series anyway. I wonder if there's ever been a comic issue where Erik realizes that not all humans detest mutants. Surely he's got to know that some humans are capable of listening to reason. One can really miss out on getting to know some terrific people if they're not willing to at least take a chance. People like Erik have to be living one horribly lonely life. And all that hatred must be one unpleasant set of baggage to carry.

[ZariusTwo]

I prefer Magneto as, to quote Grant Morrison "a mad old terrorist twat". I got more enjoyment when he was a downright prick in stories under the early years of Claremont, "Fatal Attractions", and, before the retcon, "Planet X" than I ever did as a sympathetic morally grey figure.

[Davetello]

Thanks for the effort you've all taken in replying, particularly blindturtle.

[TurtleTitan97]

I'd say he's pretty much neutral. True, he has done horrible things in the past, but given the fact that he lives in a world where mutants are treated as trash, his actions are justified most of the time.

[chrisdude]

Magneto is certainly no hero, as he believes one race deserves to lord over another. And he's genocidal.

But his views are somewhat justified, even if his solutions are wrong. Kind of like how Xavier's has this endless well of hope, when things never, ever get better. They're both wrong. Xavier's philosophy of peace doesn't bring change, and Magneto's courses of action are far too drastic (and violent). So while they're friends, they will forever take different approaches to the challenges the mutant race faces.

That's at the core of what X-Men is. It's not black and white, good guys vs bad guys.

And that's why they have the best movies

[blindturtle02]

You guys should create more villain analysis threads. This one has been a blast to read. I don't really have the money to go out and buy comics at the moment, so it'd be fun to read about peoples' first impressions of the heavy hitters like Thanos, Apocalypse, DC's Darkseid, etc. I'm sure there are some interesting villains that haven't shown up in any comic based animated shows or films, so chances are I've never heard of some of the lesser known baddies. My two cents would mainly be coming from the animation and film categories, but I'd still have a heck of a time reading and discussing this stuff. What can I say? It's fun climbing inside the heads of antagonists, and seeing them from a variety of fan perspectives.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Magneto is certainly no hero, as he believes one race deserves to lord over another. And he's genocidal.

But his views are somewhat justified, even if his solutions are wrong. Kind of like how Xavier's has this endless well of hope, when things never, ever get better. They're both wrong. Xavier's philosophy of peace doesn't bring change, and Magneto's courses of action are far too drastic (and violent). So while they're friends, they will forever take different approaches to the challenges the mutant race faces.

That's at the core of what X-Men is. It's not black and white, good guys vs bad guys.

And that's why they have the best movies

Fair post man.

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

You guys should create more villain analysis threads. This one has been a blast to read. I don't really have the money to go out and buy comics at the moment, so it'd be fun to read about peoples' first impressions of the heavy hitters like Thanos, Apocalypse, DC's Darkseid, etc. I'm sure there are some interesting villains that haven't shown up in any comic based animated shows or films, so chances are I've never heard of some of the lesser known baddies. My two cents would mainly be coming from the animation and film categories, but I'd still have a heck of a time reading and discussing this stuff. What can I say? It's fun climbing inside the heads of antagonists, and seeing them from a variety of fan perspectives.

Well, it's not like it's my completely original view. A few years ago I started thinking about how Magneto was more of an antihero, so I read up on what other people thought, found what I did and didn't agree with, then came to my final conclusions.

If you're interested in this particular subject then you should google "Magneto is right". You'll find sites where people go into it more deeply than we do here.

[Metalwolf]

I was thinking though, even though Magneto thinks mutants are superior, isn't he committing exactly the same sins that he blames on normal people? Human groups think their own group is superior. They commit genocide/murder to remove the 'inferior' group. Etc, etc, etc. He wants the mutant group to turn into another super powered version of that. His whole complex is that of a mere human who has been given special powers. He doesn't act any different then the group he despises.


And I don't know why some folks defend his actions. he's been through whatever, so what. Once a person turns around and does the exact same thing and becomes the exact same thing, he has lost any of my sympathy. They've only become a hypocrite (and I'm talking about Magneto) who doesn't end up the bigger man.

[Davetello]

I was thinking though, even though Magneto thinks mutants are superior, isn't he committing exactly the same sins that he blames on normal people? Human groups think their own group is superior. They commit genocide/murder to remove the 'inferior' group. Etc, etc, etc. He wants the mutant group to turn into another super powered version of that. His whole complex is that of a mere human who has been given special powers. He doesn't act any different then the group he despises.


And I don't know why some folks defend his actions. he's been through whatever, so what. Once a person turns around and does the exact same thing and becomes the exact same thing, he has lost any of my sympathy. They've only become a hypocrite (and I'm talking about Magneto) who doesn't end up the bigger man.

I addressed that - Magneto and the brotherhood are simply reactionaries. Humanity had its chance and has discriminated constantly. Magneto feels that they deserve to be judged, and he might as well be said judge.

[chrisdude]

Textbook terrorist.

[Darth Knuckles]

I'm a big X-Men movie fan so I base almost all of my judgements of the characters through the movie universe. I definitely like Magneto more in the franchise than I do Charles Xavier. (Although I do like Patrick Stewart)

Especially through X-Men: First Class, I really feel like I understand why Magneto would do the things he does. Right after Magneto and Charles stop Sebastian Shaw's plan to create a war that would have been based on manipulation, both sides of the humans decide to attack the mutants that just saved them from the war. I know the humans would be freaked out by what they just saw, but they shouldn't have both thought to kill them because they were uncomfortable and didn't know who saved them.

I can definitely understand Magneto's reasoning to never chance trusting the humans again just off of that one instance, let alone his past in the concentration camp. He thinks the way he does because both he and his race are constantly being attacked by the humans. He feels they have to attack back to stay alive. He doesn't want his kind to have to hide because they are different and humans are uncomfortable with that. Especially since the humans' reaction is usually experimentation or death. Having that be the humans means of dealing with mutants, I can understand Magneto's reaction against the humans as well.

I must also explain that because this is a fictitious situation, that's why I side with Magneto in this case as well. I'm not necessarily bringing these same factors and findings into the real world. A lot of these issues are also based off of real world issues and I'm not judging the real world in the exact same way I'm judging the fictional X-Men universe per say.

In the X-Men world, I see Charles as a bit too hopeful and naive in certain instances. And I see Magneto recognizing that as a plus. After all, in X-Men: Days of Future Past, Magneto is found to be the one who was right about the humans in the future version of the timeline anyway. So yeah in the X-Men movie universe, I'd definitely say I'm way in favor of Magneto as opposed to Charles. (Michael Fassbender as Magneto is very awesome to watch as well.)

[PangolinFeets]

He's as much of a hero as Ozymandias from The Watchmen. The end justifies the means.

I wouldn't call them heros, but they certainly make for fantastic writing.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

He's as much of a hero as Ozymandias from The Watchmen. The end justifies the means.

I wouldn't call them heros, but they certainly make for fantastic writing.

Yeah, you ain't kidding. I think I've enjoyed pretty much everything featuring Magneto. Still haven't gotten around to giving Watchmen a try yet. I probably should.