The Official Venting/Whining/Criticism Thread!

[raph27]

April needs to bond with the other turtles.
Mikey needs some real episodes. Not the "bros don't get me/I was right bout something/shove it in their faces that I'm right/ still clueless
I miss Biggs a ton.
We need ICK toys! (Not really a show problem but whatever.)

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Okay, one complaint: this version of Northampton? It doesn't work.

(Note, the following was hastily paraphrased from a Tumblr post, so I can't assure coherence.)

Now, I love Northampton. It's not something I want in every incarnation, but I understand why it was in the original, why it keeps getting adapted, why Mirage and 4Kids kept it as a second home, and why the Nick creators decided to incorporate it into the show. I really wish they wouldn't have, though, because it doesn't work for the show they've created.

The reason why Northampton is feasible in the other incarnations is because the stakes are low enough that the turtles can afford to drop off the face of the Earth and go through a change of pace and atmosphere while they rest. In the Mirage and 4Kids takes, the turtles' disappearance changes nothing in New York, and no one is placed in danger by their absence. In the film and IDW versions, where the turtles leave behind loose ends that desperately need tying, their rest time is considerably more limited, and the story doesn’t try to make it seem as if the rest of the world has stopped existing.

This last thing is what’s wrong with Nick’s take. Yes, Leo needed a few episodes to recover, which is something. That said, stuff doesn’t actually stop happening just because it can’t be seen, and yet that’s precisely how the turtles and the show act—as if the Kraang weren’t an ongoing concern, and one that grows increasingly more dangerous the more it is left unattended. There’s no sense of object permanence, and it makes both the show and the characters look incredibly childish and irresponsible. The turtles may not be physically capable of returning to Manhattan just yet (debatable) but that doesn’t stop them from actually doing stuff to prepare while they're at the farm. Planning out strategies, considering their options—maybe recruiting the army of Mutant Frogs they’ve just met—shoring up their defenses in case the Kraang expand to upstate New York or heck, even making the slightest attempt at keeping up with the news. If any of that is happening, it’s in offscreen-land, along with any sense of logical plot progression or any portrayal of women that isn’t deeply sexist.

But no; the writers have bigger fish to fry, like keeping the love triangle spinning in its wheels or have the Nth iteration of their standard Mikey plot or introducing yet more mutants. Because, you see, when they claimed that the invasion of New York was important, they were lying. Had it actually been important, they would have given it the barest amount of thought, instead of giving us stock invasion footage and mixing it with a tepid “twist” and an adaptation of beloved Mirage material. It would have consequences which flowed naturally from what came before, instead of just being written in accordance to the whim of the day. Instead, it is no longer a factor, and will likely not remain so until the Kraang are once again onscreen, when the writers will once again try to convince us that it’s all terribly important and dramatic, even when it makes no sense and contradicts everything we've been told before.

The really ironic thing is that the Northampton stories have been some of my favorite in the series (by which I mean that they've been mostly inoffensive, except when they aren't). The context they exist, though, doesn't work at all.


This has been a rant.

This is exactly what's wrong with this season. We wouldn't be nearly this piss off about these episodes if they were after The Return to New York arc. Had the head writers made a wise move to have them air after they save New York (except the Woods and Buried Secrets), editing out the scenes with Leo limping, and having just one scene, just one scene of dialogue with Master Splinter telling them that they should take themselves away from the city to rest then all of these fillers wouldn't feel so ****ing distracting in the first place!

That's all it takes to fix this. Even it means that Season 3 finale wouldn't be the Return to New York. I. DON'T. CARE! Just fix it.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

This is exactly what's wrong with this season. We wouldn't be nearly this piss off about these episodes if they were after The Return to New York arc. Had the head writers made a wise move to have them air after they save New York (except the Woods and Buried Secrets), editing out the scenes with Leo limping, and having just one scene, just one scene of dialogue with Master Splinter telling them that they should take themselves away from the city to rest then all of these fillers wouldn't feel so ****ing distracting in the first place!

That's all it takes to fix this. Even it means that Season 3 finale wouldn't be the Return to New York. I. DON'T. CARE! Just fix it.http://i.imgur.com/oDEgUqI.gif

The finale won't be Return To NY. Northampton is only 13 episodes.

[jenna]

It does seem like much of the criticism concerns the failure of the writers to deliver ongoing plot in the current season. I agree. Just some acknowledgment of the loss of Splinter and some grief would help. My concern is that if the writers don't recognise this and continue dishing out horror-flick parody one-shots then the ratings will continue to fall and the show will die a death. I really hope this doesn't happen because this show is at its best nothing short of brilliant. To lose it would be an incredible shame.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by snake

The finale won't be Return To NY. Northampton is only 13 episodes.

There is really no reason excuse then. I get that these were suppose to air during October but, honestly, if October were no longer available for these episodes then cut the time in Northampton. Use only the episodes that would be reference later on like The Buried Secrets episode with the stealth ship and The Woods episode and maybe even the Dream Beaver episode, and then get to the Spirit Quest and then to them going back to New York.

The only down side to this is that Leo's leg being injured wouldn't feel as long as suppose to feel when you're waiting someone to heal but at least you would giving the people a reason to stay tune instead falling off the face of the Earth.

Maybe it was a mistake, to have an invasion in the season 2 finale. If it was only just Shredder chasing them out New York then I would sorta understand the lack of concern on what's going on with New York because there wouldn't such a incentive to back if they had really thought that Splinter was dead until one receive a vision from him or like the original comic of Raph going off on his own to New York.

Originally Posted by jenna

It does seem like much of the criticism concerns the failure of the writers to deliver ongoing plot in the current season. I agree. Just some acknowledgment of the loss of Splinter and some grief would help. My concern is that if the writers don't recognise this and continue dishing out horror-flick parody one-shots then the ratings will continue to fall and the show will die a death. I really hope this doesn't happen because this show is at its best nothing short of brilliant. To lose it would be an incredible shame.

It would be a tragedy but how necessary was it for them have so many theme horror episodes?
It's like they put a 11 year old horror fan boy as head writer and he only wanted to see what he thought would be really cool to reference from.

[BabyTurtles]

Since everyone else pretty much voiced all my problems I have another one that's been bothering me...(and this is probably just me XD)

I don't like how Mikey is becoming this innocent character just for the cute factor.

I feel like how he was better portrayed in season one....where he was more aware of things around him (like he got more things) and he was more of a chill dude...less of a young wittle brother that needs hugz.

[snake]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

Since everyone else pretty much voiced all my problems I have another one that's been bothering me...(and this is probably just me XD)

I don't like how Mikey is becoming this innocent character just for the cute factor.

I feel like how he was better portrayed in season one....where he was more aware of things around him (like he got more things) and he was more of a chill dude...less of a young wittle brother that needs hugz.

I know, just give it up. Mikey probably won't be getting any more serious or whatever in this show. Too bad, because the potential is there.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by snake

I know, just give it up. Mikey probably won't be getting any more serious or whatever in this show. Too bad, because the potential is there.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. My only issue with Nick is that there is so much potential that they seem to be ignoring in favour of an inter-species love triangle and movie rip-offs. They could do so much!

If I think back to the very early episodes, it was completely unique, completely TMNT, embracing lots of different aspects from different incarnations whilst setting itself apart as its own thing, completely fresh and completely brilliant. Soooo much potential.

[snake]

Originally Posted by jenna

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. My only issue with Nick is that there is so much potential that they seem to be ignoring in favour of an inter-species love triangle and movie rip-offs. They could do so much!

If I think back to the very early episodes, it was completely unique, completely TMNT, embracing lots of different aspects from different incarnations whilst setting itself apart as its own thing, completely fresh and completely brilliant. Soooo much potential.

I know, but ever think it's the Nick execs who are doing this?

"MOOOOORE TOYS! MOOOOOORE MUTANTS! NO MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!"

[jenna]

Originally Posted by snake

I know, but ever think it's the Nick execs who are doing this?

"MOOOOORE TOYS! MOOOOOORE MUTANTS! NO MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!"

Yup. I think that's exactly what's happening.

But then my fear is that it will be 'Fast Forward' all over again. The greed for toy sales ruined and then killed a great show. I'd hate for Nick to shoot itself in the foot in the same way.

[neatoman]

Criticism? Well OK then, here's a list:

1. The story is too simple.
2. There are too many self contained episodes to develop the story.
3. Very little in the self contained episodes are built upon and often forgotten.
4. There seems to too much of treading old ground.

And that's about it for general criticisms that I don't think are too subjective. That's the main stuff, problems with storytelling, I feel like they should have decided between a strong strong story or a decent anthology. Sadly they decided to split the difference, and as such it feels like we have a weak story with too much filler.

As for stuff that might be more personal:

1. I don't like how Karai totally flipped her moral center as soon as she figured out the "who's daddy" thing, remember she did some pretty nasty things but figuring out who her father was totally changed that over night? I really don't like that.
2. I don't like that Krang was merged with the Utroms to make the Kraang, it's such a stupid and needless compromise. It's made worse by the fact that the Kraang just suck on their own, they're not at all menacing and they're annoying as all hell.
3. I don't like that the Foot-bots were brought back, an army of androids does not quite enforce the same sense of power in it's leadr as a human army.
4. There are too many mutants, I woul like a little diversity in the origin department.

[FlawedCoil82]

As I said in another thread, I am hating every episode of this season. After all the 'Courage, The Cowardly Dog'-ish type horrors and weirdness they have faced, even Mikey would be smart enough to know that they would be much safer in New York.

[The Big Bad]

Originally Posted by snake

I know, but ever think it's the Nick execs who are doing this?

"MOOOOORE TOYS! MOOOOOORE MUTANTS! NO MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!"

Possible, but unlikely, I'd say: works which are pulled into too many different directions by too many cooks, or are victims of executive meddling, have certain characteristics, many of which tend to be rather obvious--see the "City at War" arc in the 4Kids cartoon for an example. The Nick cartoon, on the other hand, has always been the way it is. It has always been mutant heavy. It has always been lacking in character development. One could argue that it's possible that the producers have been constrained by executive meddling from the beginning, except that if that were the case, one would expect the producers to actually get sort of better at dealing with it with time, which is also not the case.

[THGhost]

I like the Halloween-themed episodes, but they really need to stop them now. It's getting ridiculous, it's almost frickin' December for crying out loud!

Originally Posted by AT-Man

When did this become a thing? It's SHOULD HAVE!

Thank you!

[snake]

Originally Posted by THGhost

I like the Halloween-themed episodes, but they really need to stop them now. It's getting ridiculous, it's almost frickin' December for crying out loud!



Thank you!

I blame that on Nick's air dates.

[miru]

Please, stop with the monsters of the week. Have the Foot come to Northampton in pursuit of the Turtles and try to keep them under house arrest. Have Hun come over to try and fulfill his vendetta with Casey Jones. Have Rat King or Newtralizer seek a new dugout for themselves. But pleas, no more weird "Courage the Cowardly Dog" monsters. It's getting tiring.

Also, make a human Karai figure.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by FlawedCoil82

even Mikey would be smart enough to know that they would be much safer in New York.

I dunno, I suggest trying Jersey as an alternative to the two.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by miru

But pleas, no more weird "Courage the Cowardly Dog" monsters. It's getting tiring.

This show will never reach the levels of absurdity that was Courage. Never.

[pannoni1]

I find Season 2 to be almost as good as Season 1, which except for a couple clunkers, was consistent and really showed the heroes/villains as a mini-community, and there were some great fights. Season 2 had some annoying episodes such as Shellcane and the premiere was sort of meh, but the great episodes of that season topped the best of the first season, but Wormquake, the Dimension X episode, and The Invasion are episodes I'd long to return for. It appears that the writers are now on cruise control by applying various horror parodies. Chinatown Ghost Story near the end of S2 was fresh for its time and occassionaly we throw a bone with returning favorites such as the Punk Frogs, but the Ninja has been removed from the show as it becomes too Mikey and Don focused. Have an episode where the Turtles are only featured for a couple minutes with the rest focused on the Kraang/Splinter/The Foot since when people think of TMNT and the way this series has developed, its important to see what happens during these breaks. I really don't want to say that the best of this generation of Turtles has happened, but without good promotion and improvement, this show will be ending before the next movie comes out. At least its not terrible where its boring, but its definitely slipped compared to the first two seasons and while I wouldn't say this show has jumped the shark yet, I've definitely spotted a fin.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Okay, one complaint: this version of Northampton? It doesn't work.

(Note, the following was hastily paraphrased from a Tumblr post, so I can't assure coherence.)

Now, I love Northampton. It's not something I want in every incarnation, but I understand why it was in the original, why it keeps getting adapted, why Mirage and 4Kids kept it as a second home, and why the Nick creators decided to incorporate it into the show. I really wish they wouldn't have, though, because it doesn't work for the show they've created.

The reason why Northampton is feasible in the other incarnations is because the stakes are low enough that the turtles can afford to drop off the face of the Earth and go through a change of pace and atmosphere while they rest. In the Mirage and 4Kids takes, the turtles' disappearance changes nothing in New York, and no one is placed in danger by their absence. In the film and IDW versions, where the turtles leave behind loose ends that desperately need tying, their rest time is considerably more limited, and the story doesn’t try to make it seem as if the rest of the world has stopped existing.

This last thing is what’s wrong with Nick’s take. Yes, Leo needed a few episodes to recover, which is something. That said, stuff doesn’t actually stop happening just because it can’t be seen, and yet that’s precisely how the turtles and the show act—as if the Kraang weren’t an ongoing concern, and one that grows increasingly more dangerous the more it is left unattended. There’s no sense of object permanence, and it makes both the show and the characters look incredibly childish and irresponsible. The turtles may not be physically capable of returning to Manhattan just yet (debatable) but that doesn’t stop them from actually doing stuff to prepare while they're at the farm. Planning out strategies, considering their options—maybe recruiting the army of Mutant Frogs they’ve just met—shoring up their defenses in case the Kraang expand to upstate New York or heck, even making the slightest attempt at keeping up with the news. If any of that is happening, it’s in offscreen-land, along with any sense of logical plot progression or any portrayal of women that isn’t deeply sexist.

But no; the writers have bigger fish to fry, like keeping the love triangle spinning in its wheels or have the Nth iteration of their standard Mikey plot or introducing yet more mutants. Because, you see, when they claimed that the invasion of New York was important, they were lying. Had it actually been important, they would have given it the barest amount of thought, instead of giving us stock invasion footage and mixing it with a tepid “twist” and an adaptation of beloved Mirage material. It would have consequences which flowed naturally from what came before, instead of just being written in accordance to the whim of the day. Instead, it is no longer a factor, and will likely not remain so until the Kraang are once again onscreen, when the writers will once again try to convince us that it’s all terribly important and dramatic, even when it makes no sense and contradicts everything we've been told before.

The really ironic thing is that the Northampton stories have been some of my favorite in the series (by which I mean that they've been mostly inoffensive, except when they aren't). The context they exist, though, doesn't work at all.


This has been a rant.

You know, you've actually pointed out something! You would think they would spend a few episodes trying to prepare for the battle in New York to make the plot much more consistent but instead why are we still getting horror based episodes when it' almost the end of November. If this continues to December, I'd have to ask what were they thinking. I am curious to know what the plot of the Spirit Quest episode is about but if it's literally going to take just one episode of preparation for their return then that's lazy writing on their part.


Now for my criticisms, some have already been spoken by others but I'll list what my main ones are:
1) Please stop returning so many OT characters and elements. I know they are bringing in Mirage characters and even a 2k3 character but they still seem to insist on bringing back more than enough aspects from the OT. The Punk Frogs were reinvented poorly that they might as well have been different characters. There's a difference between reinventing characters and changing them into characters that are radically different.
2) Raphael needs some focus. Out of all of the turtles, he's the one you can tell the most interesting stories with. None of the Don and Mike episodes have been that interesting and the Leo episodes are mostly stories we haven't seen before.
3) I would like to see some more original characters to help make this show stand out. I really like Tiger Claw and Fish Face, even if they are mutants. I think you guys have some good ideas for villians of this show. Maybe we can get another ally or something.