Marvel/Sony in negotiations over Spider-Man Rights

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Cartoons have much looser rules. They did a whole series where Bruce wasn't Batman! You could never do that in a live action movie or TV show, the rules for what's "allowed" and what isn't are totally different.

That said, the JL cartoons hold a special place in my heart for being the only media outside the books to show Wally any love. I think he was in the DC/MK video game, too, but I don't remember if they explicitly stated it was Wally. I think it was, but you had to dig into the menus to find out.

True...but Bruce was at least THERE in Beyond. Gotta give JL(U) props for not just Wally, but John Stewart. I really liked what they did with GL in that series.

[Leo656]

I don't like John Stewart much. Either Kyle or Guy should have been on the show. Stewart's GL never had anything to do with the Justice League. He's a scab Green Lantern and he's never been a very interesting character on his own, either. They just stuck him in the show because they were afraid of people writing letters. That always bothered me.

Same with how they had Hawkgirl on the team but not Hawkman. Neither of them were ever really that important in the JLA, either, but Hawkgirl existing without Hawkman is a completely useless idea, because her entire basis for creation was "female sidekick". That'd be like if they did a show where Batman wasn't in the JLA, but Batgirl was.

If they needed another woman, and they needed a minority character, they could just as easily have left out Hawkgirl and Stewart, two characters who had Zero importance, historically, to the JLA, and had Vixen, who they eventually added anyway, and filled both roles in spades to satisfy the PC Police. Vixen actually had been a major part of the JLA for several years in the books and was a good character on her own. The fact that they eventually worked her in anyway means that they could have just used her from the start.

It's a great show, I just always had some issues with the casting of the League. I also hated how they couldn't use a lot of DC characters like the JSA due to rights issues. I'd love to see another crack at that show with all of that straightened out. It was like 9/10s perfect, but I think they could do even better now.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Cartoons have much looser rules. They did a whole series where Bruce wasn't Batman!

There were occasionally serious talks about doing Beyond as a live-action movie while it was airing, but nothing came of it, probably out of that fear that a movie with no Bruce as Bats would fly.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Leo656

He's never gonna be the "real" Spider-Man to the general audience, just a stand-in. That'd be a wasted movie.

Like, even Dick Grayson's had altogether a couple solid years as Batman, off and on; they're still never going to make that movie. Batman is Bruce Wayne. Superman is Clark Kent. Spider-Man is Peter Parker. Even when a character achieves "Legacy" status, where other characters have taken up the mantle for as long or longer than the original, they still always revert to the originals for mass media. Case in point: I can't be bothered to look it up right now, but Wally West was The Flash for as long if not longer than Barry Allen, and was a much better character overall. When they did a TV show back in 1989, who was Flash? Barry Allen. When they did ANOTHER show in 2014, who was Flash? Barry Allen. Who is going to be Flash in the upcoming JLA movie? Barry Allen. Because Wally was technically his sidekick and not "really" that character. That's how this stuff works.

Movies and live-action TV shows are supposed to be "iconic" and nobody wants to see "scabs" in the role filling in for the "real" characters.

mmhmm mmhmm...I hear your points

....I still want Miles XD I don't care if it's by some miracle!

I will even take Disney making an animated movie on him instead. (I like animated movies better anyway)

[Leo656]

While we're wishing for stuff that's never gonna happen... I wanna try on the Pope's hat for a day. Just for fun.

Nah they might do an animated thing at some point but that's about it for that character.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Leo656

While we're wishing for stuff that's never gonna happen... I wanna try on the Pope's hat for a day. Just for fun.

Nah they might do an animated thing at some point but that's about it for that character.

I'll take whatever ^_^

I honestly liked Big Hero 6 more than all the live action marvel movies, so I'll gladly take that

or....a cartoon series (not just being a guest star on ultimate spiderman)

[Sumac]

Producers need to think outside of the box and forget about "iconic" statuses and what not and just do what they want to do. Though, sadly it'll take time.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Two things- first, Miles was brought in as Peter's REPLACEMENT. After he DIED. That's a BIG factor in that character's place. Basically, to have him be Spidey, they'd have to have Peter killed off early on- and NO ONE would stand for that in a movie. Second, that character only exists in the Marvel Ultimates universe, NOT the main-line 616 one. In ALL other universes, it's been Peter. (I'm not counting 2099, as it's a future time-line where Peter DID exist, but Miguel O'Hara ended up taking up the mantle in that time-line.)

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Two things- first, Miles was brought in as Peter's REPLACEMENT. After he DIED. That's a BIG factor in that character's place. Basically, to have him be Spidey, they'd have to have Peter killed off early on- and NO ONE would stand for that in a movie.

Peter got better eventually, so if they made an all Morales movie, they could just have him turn up ok at the end and set up a Spider-Men team-up film

[MsMarvelDuckie]

How does one "get better" after getting killed, exactly? Oh, wait- this is Marvel. No one ever stays dead except Uncle Ben and Gwen..... (Remembers the future Hobgoblin storyline with the reality-hopping Ben....) On second thought, does ANYONE stay dead?

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Peter got better eventually, so if they made an all Morales movie, they could just have him turn up ok at the end and set up a Spider-Men team-up film

that'd be cool~

also I'm tired of people saying "no one would stand for X character because Y character is too popular"

gosh guys we'll never get anything new with that sort of thinking.


I'm kinda glad I'm not some hardcore comic fan, cause I wouldn't mind a Grayson Batman film....or a Wally West film....or a John Stewart Film....or a film about a Superhero that isn't that well known.

it's boring seeing the same characters over and over and over again...if the writing is good people will enjoy it no matter who the character is. I feel like the only people that would have a problem with new characters are the fanboys. People who aren't into comics, but like action films won't care.

I didn't know ANYTHING about Guardians of the Galaxy and kinda felt Rocket was stupid...but others said it was good and I watched it and it was awesome so just make a good movie and it will be good.

[Leo656]

It's also NOT boring to see the same character over and over again if the writing is good. Goes both ways. And people will always prefer what's familiar over what's "new". You don't have to "sell" what's familiar, you don't have to convince anyone it's worth their time, most of the work is already done.

I get that some people want "new" and "creative", but this is Commercial Art we're talking about, not Art art. These characters are Property. DC's stock jumps up and down every time they can't decide whether Superman wears red trunks or not. You can't just "Do Something New", that makes people nervous.

Charlie Brown has been 7 years old for 150 years (slight exaggeration). Once a commercial character is on Christmas cards and Birthday party kits, you can forget anything New ever happening. And besides that, everything's already been done, anyway. You can't tell "new stories", just old stories with new characters, which isn't all that New. Especially super-heroes. I get so annoyed when people bemoan the predictable, repetitive, serialized nature of super-heroes. That's part of the appeal; they're Comfort Food. That doesn't mean you can't tell great stories, because you absolutely can, but how many different ways can you spin, "Spider-Man cracks joke, punches bad guy", anyway? How many ways can you build up to that specific, necessary moment? Or "Batman drops bad guy off roof, catches him last minute". It's always gonna be the same sh*t! I don't have any problem with that; frankly, I enjoy it.

I love comics. I really do. But when people are like, "It's getting to be all the same sh*t," I'm like, dude, it's super-heroes. How many stories ARE there anyway? All you can do is juggle the characters around; that's as "new" as it gets.

The only way you get anything "fresh" and "new" in comics is when someone does something like The Boys or Preacher and it always offends the weak of heart (and mind). People really don't want "new", it's entirely contrary to human nature. They say they do, but when they get it, they cry about it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, the hard-core fans are probably the ones who'd be LEAST concerned with which character is under the suit, as they know enough to be able to say "Oh, so we're going with this guy instead of his predecessor. Hmm, ok- let's see where it goes." Whereas the casual (sorry for using Cubed's favorite word) fans would be foaming at the mouth and marching on the studio with pitchforks and torches because they don't even KNOW who the "new" guy is! They would go in expecting Peter, and feel cheated because they've never HEARD of Miles or Miguel.

It's the main-stream public's knowledge of the characters that the studios have to appeal to. That's what I meant. And it's true. You can't make a Spider-Man film with Miles and expect the general public (your main audience) to be happy when they realize it's not Peter in the suit. They will feel like it's an imposter, and will avoid the film. And that's when you end up with tanking sales, angry fans, and loss of trust in the franchise. So no, we will NEVER see it happen on the big screen. They already tried that with Indiana Jones in Crystal Skulls (passing the torch) and it didn't work.

[BabyTurtles]

ugh.....it's no wonder I like superhero cartoons more.

so...how many times are we gonna have to hear "with great power comes great responsibility"

about 20 more times? In about 20 more reboots

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

How does one "get better" after getting killed, exactly?

Beats me. Bendis never explained it properly after six months of dragging the story out, then had Peter and MJ drive off to live happily ever after.

[Leo656]

Uhhh, the "power-responsibility" thing is kind of the theme of Spider-Man regardless of who it is. And again, swapping guys under the mask does nothing to change the fact that, essentially, all super-hero stories are the same. There's like six of 'em. That's basically true of all fiction. This stuff's just for fun. I'm not seeing a problem. The stories are the same and the themes are the same whether it's Spider-Man or Batman or Birdman, regardless of who's under what mask. I... don't see why that's a bad thing. And it's not like the cartoons are any different, really. Even when they do something "different" from the books, it's still "the same" as every other type of super-hero story.

There's just only so many ways you can do this stuff. That's not necessarily Bad.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Uhhh, the "power-responsibility" thing is kind of the theme of Spider-Man regardless of who it is. And again, swapping guys under the mask does nothing to change the fact that, essentially, all super-hero stories are the same. There's like six of 'em. That's basically true of all fiction. This stuff's just for fun. I'm not seeing a problem. The stories are the same and the themes are the same whether it's Spider-Man or Batman or Birdman, regardless of who's under what mask. I... don't see why that's a bad thing. And it's not like the cartoons are any different, really. Even when they do something "different" from the books, it's still "the same" as every other type of super-hero story.

There's just only so many ways you can do this stuff. That's not necessarily Bad.

That's the thing....as long as it's Spiderman does it matter if it's Peter Parker??

The problem isn't the "with great responsibility" line it's just when it's in the same scenario.

and cartoons have shows like Young Justice, JLA, and Static Shock which explored NEW characters not just the popular ones.

look I don't want the old characters gone forever, but having a different version of a character(or new hero) is a breathe of fresh air. Then...eventually they can go back to the roots again....just having some elbow room between then wouldn't hurt.

[Zulithe]

disappointed with the direction they've been going with both ASM 1 & 2... not that they haven't had their strong points as well. One being the Spidey suit in ASM2 which was perfect. Just about everything else about ASM2 though is a disaster :/

Would love to see what marvel studios would do with spidey now that they've had quite a few films to get their groove on. I think they are in the right position to give us the spidey we really need. And I fully agree about toning down the romance... we've seen enough of that and it's really holding back what these films can do since they are always shoving it in there.

I think they should do miles. after two iterations of peter on the big screen in such a short period, let's try another approach. We're introduced to Miles as Peter dies very early in Act 1, if they insist on even showing Peter at all. Then it's all about Miles from there on out. Let's get us a Miles trilogy, after then it'll have been about 10 years and maybe the time will be right to do a new version of Peter at that time.

[Leo656]

Well, now we're getting into "When Is Change For The Sake Of Change OK?" territory, which is going to be different for each person. Some people think anything goes and others think there needs to be some kind of justification. Some say "Why not?", others say "Why bother?"

From the perspective of the people handling this stuff, the latter is always going to be the safer option. It's easy for someone who's a spectator to say "What's the difference?", but corporations have shareholders to answer to. If something's worked for 50 years without upsetting anyone, there's no good reason why it won't work for another 50 or more. That's been proven.

Again, this isn't "high art", this is Commercial Entertainment. And by and large, they're right. Nobody ever complains when things stay the same, people only ever complain about changes they don't like. It's easy to see why they play it safe.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, the theme of power and responsibility is basically the ROOT of Spidey's origin. He didn't want to get involved with something because it "wasn't his problem", and it ended up BECOMING his problem and affecting his entire life in a very severe and personal way. That was the point. Take that away, and you've taken away the entire REASON for why he donned the mask.

And no matter who is under it, it would be the same. They have to have a reason to take that responsibility in the first place, or there's no point in them being a hero. It's not like any of those characters just woke up one day and thought "I want to be a superhero." They all have their reasons for what they do. Batman's parents, Spidey's Uncle Ben, or X-Men fighting for mutant rights- it's all the same. Without their original purpose, they are not heroes, just people wearing silly costumes beating up other people in costumes.

What gets me is that while new characters can be interesting, they don't usually have the same impact as those who are established and iconic. Those characters have been around so long because they are memorable and original. Adding "new" characters eventually just ends up being a case of copy/paste of personality/powers/background for something "different", when it's really just a rehash of old characters in a "new" guise. And most of them are hardly memorable or interesting after a few years. It's one of the reasons we don't see movies of Wonder Man, Thor Girl, Puma, or Beak.