JLA: New Series?

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Leo656

And just as many who thought Batwing was a dumb idea. Because one Batman is enough, you don't need "Guy Who's Just Like Batman, But Black". Once again, that's pandering. "Look, black people, there's a Batman Just For You!" No, yeah, that's not awful. If any black person ever said he couldn't relate to Batman because of race, that person has no friends and no life, because they're too busy tilting at windmills.

Those people you speak of are a vast minority, prone to see "injustices" everywhere. That doesn't make their complaints necessarily valid. Especially when DC in particular was pushing female super-heroes and minority super-heroes hard and fast early on, decades before anyone even complained about stuff like this. DC "force-feeds" its readers "progressive" characters and concepts as a general rule and has from the beginning. So again, who do we blame that they're not more popular? To say they haven't been "pushed" is a blatant lie. People simply don't like those characters as much as other characters. Telling them they're "supposed" to hasn't "fixed" it. What then?

Ghostbuster Reboot in a nutshell.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Ghostbuster Reboot in a nutshell.

They could have chosen better actresses too if they were going to go this ridiculous route too. Not like I am going to see it anyway. Its best left as one classic film and one okay film.

[Leo656]

This argument never stops being stupid. There's plenty of minority characters, they all get plenty of play, there's zero need to "switch" anyone for the sake of forced inclusion, and the only thing "holding back" any of those characters is that people simply don't like them as much.

That, and most people just plain aren't looking that hard at everything, trying to inject some kind of SJW crusader nonsense into an adolescent male power fantasy where people solve all the world's problems with punching. That's not the venue for this kind of affirmative action stuff.

And again, people keep making this whole thing about race because it's a nice little black-and-white (pun fully intended) argument to pick nits over, but that completely disregards the other, stronger point that second-stringers of ANY color have no business being in the JLA, and it's wrong to force someone in who doesn't deserve it, "Just Because They're A (________)". I've had it up to my neck with this "Everyone Gets A Ribbon For Showing Up" bullsh*t people are into now. You know when Zatanna, Static or Vixen should be in the JLA? When ANY of them can carry their own book for more than 6-12 issues.

Once again, I'm fully in favor of a broader-focused show that showcases the entire DC pantheon, because while the exclusivity of the JLA is important, it also means by definition they can't properly showcase every good character that DC has without watering it down. Actually, there's a neat idea. "DC Showcase" was an amazing book that ran for a good long while, specifically for the purpose of putting a spotlight on lesser-known characters. A lot of them got mini-series and occasional on-goings out of it. There's a thing we should have, a "DC Showcase" cartoon; that's even an awesome name for a series. Like "Brave and the Bold" was the "Batman Teams Up With..." show, "Showcase" could be kind of the "This Episode Is All About (_____)" show. They could even do spotlight episodes about teams, like The Outsiders or the New Titans, or an episode all about the Green Lantern Corps, along with solo shots for characters like Blue Beetle and Supergirl. That would be awesome. Now that I thought of it, I want it really bad. I want a JLA show, too, but I want both. And I want the shows to occasionally cross over and for stuff to blow up.

I want that way, way more than I want them sticking random people in the JLA just because they don't know what else to do with 'em. There's much better ways to give everyone equal time. For starters, someone needs to cut me a check for my Showcase idea.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I like this idea, Leo. Actually, I feel the same way about the Avengers. There are far too many second-stringers there, too, and many of them are just for "inclusion's" sake. I can understand some of them, like Falcon or Black Panther- they can at least hang with the big boys. But some of the "reserve Avengers" just don't make sense. For that matter, having all those minority characters on the A-list team just reeks of trying to make everyone happy, when in fact it does the opposite. Keep it to the core members, with maybe the occasional "guest star" joining for an issue or two, but not as a permanent member.

I think both of the Big Two could benefit from an ongoing series that showcases some of the lesser-known characters. I mean, We know that characters like Squirrel Girl can't carry her own book long term, and neither could Colleen Wing, White Tiger, or Blue Shield (yes, he's an actual character) or even Sunspot, but they could easily have a single issue centered around them in a collective book that does as you suggested. Or less-popular teams like the Great Lakes Avengers (no, they are not actually a joke- they might be C-listers, but they still get the job done!). Or, heck, even Impossible Man. Not that anyone has ever clamored for a book with him as the lead.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Leo656

That, and most people just plain aren't looking that hard at everything, trying to inject some kind of SJW crusader nonsense into an adolescent male power fantasy where people solve all the world's problems with punching. That's not the venue for this kind of affirmative action stuff.

And again, people keep making this whole thing about race because it's a nice little black-and-white (pun fully intended) argument to pick nits over, but that completely disregards the other, stronger point that second-stringers of ANY color have no business being in the JLA, and it's wrong to force someone in who doesn't deserve it, "Just Because They're A (________)". I've had it up to my neck with this "Everyone Gets A Ribbon For Showing Up" bullsh*t people are into now.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Once again, I'm fully in favor of a broader-focused show that showcases the entire DC pantheon, because while the exclusivity of the JLA is important, it also means by definition they can't properly showcase every good character that DC has without watering it down. Actually, there's a neat idea. "DC Showcase" was an amazing book that ran for a good long while, specifically for the purpose of putting a spotlight on lesser-known characters. A lot of them got mini-series and occasional on-goings out of it. There's a thing we should have, a "DC Showcase" cartoon; that's even an awesome name for a series. Like "Brave and the Bold" was the "Batman Teams Up With..." show, "Showcase" could be kind of the "This Episode Is All About (_____)" show. They could even do spotlight episodes about teams, like The Outsiders or the New Titans, or an episode all about the Green Lantern Corps, along with solo shots for characters like Blue Beetle and Supergirl. That would be awesome. Now that I thought of it, I want it really bad. I want a JLA show, too, but I want both. And I want the shows to occasionally cross over and for stuff to blow up.

I could totally see this working.

[sdp]

I completely agree with Leo on this one oddly enough, I just don't think he came off well at explaining his point very well. I'm not a fan of the JL having second stringers either, Avengers has indeed become a joke like how everyone became a Titan in the Teen Titans cartoon because it had happened in the comics but over decades while in the cartoon it had to happen within a few seasons and the same is happening with the movies.

Now I love shows with racial diversity, I'm a big fan of them but I don't like it when it's forced. A show like Captain Planet or the Magic School Bus are made fun of by having too much diversity but it works. When a show has a random black friend for no reason sometimes it comes off badly, I can't think of an example but it sometimes just doesn't work I don't know why, I mean look at Hey Arnold! It works perfectly there but it just doesn't work in other shows. Now I absolutely hate when they radically change characters race to have diversity. Sometimes it works like The Kingpin in DareDevil or when it's a white American character to a White Brittish character, but I hate other choices like making Perry White black or Mr. Thompson a Whoopi Goldberg. Just create new interesting characters. I love Diggle in Arrow but making Kid Flash black? ugh. Green Lantern being black in JL works great since he's not supposed to be the original, promoting Cyborg to the JL? Not so much. Jeeze, it pisses me off when they change characters and it's clearly noticeable. Another great example is in the Spawn movie they made Al's best friend white so people wouldn't think it'd be a "black" movie. F-ck that

If they really want diversity then make great new characters that people like and are able to join, I remember being really happy how Static was a member of the JL in the future, it made sense. Black Panther in the avengers works (well at least much better than f'n Hawkguy) but Falcon just doesn't.


As far as a new JLA cartoon, I'm excited for it even if it's aimed at a younger audience as long as it's fun. Serious DC is fun but so can a more kid friendly version as we've seen before. Of course it being kid friendly could also mean it is indeed just a boring show but we'll see when it's out.

[Candy Kappa]

yup, all characters needs too be heterosexual white guys and girls can only come to visit if they wear bathing suit costumes or less.

Same procedure as usual.

[Leo656]

Since we're all in favor of putting characters nobody cares about in the Justice League just to keep it "fair for everyone", why don't we just let someone in a wheelchair pitch for the Yankees? That's "fair", right? I mean, just because they clearly aren't a "Major League" star of the same caliber as A-Rod, why should they be left out, right? Just toss 'em in there. Let the guy who cuts the grass take a swing, f*ck it, he practically lives there. Give everyone a turn.

Or would that just be completely unreasonable, because it's just implicitly understood that the person in question had no rightful business being in that situation, unless we're judging based on pity rather than merit? C'mon.

Seriously. Not everything need be a goddamn crusade. Until the internet created a society of victims who see oppression and make-believe injustice everywhere they look, nobody cared about this sh*t.

I mean seriously, C'mon man. Look what you're asking us to do:


Yeah, no, things are fine. We definitely don't need any of that again. Yeesh. Don't pick at the scab, it took forever to heal.

[Candy Kappa]

I love how you use some of the worst characters to brush off all form of inclusion. I guess my previous post went to deaf ears.

Come on, you're using someone who has wind powers but calls himself Samurai, because he's Japanese as your "Inclusion leads to crappiness you guys". Or Apache Chief cause he's Native American so he have to have a Indian name instead of something related to his actual powers.

When did suggesting to make Aquaman's new cartoon design correlate with a Native Hawaiian descent playing him in the LA movies be the same as bringing back a Guy calling himself Samurai solely because he's Japanese, it's like Batman had named himself The Newenglander. How about not having the character’s superhero persona being based on their ethnic origin.

[Leo656]

Well, to be fair, the point about B and C-Listers having zero place in the JLA A-Team for any reason period was solidly made, so the rest of it was just me being colorful. C'mon, those guys are adorable. F***in' El Dorado. That's precious.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

CK, as much as it mightgall some people, he's absolutely right about second-stringers, no matter what their race or whatever. Doesn't matter if they are black, white, or alien. They just don't belong with top tier heroes. And Hawkeye is not a second-stringer, he's a founding member of the Avengers. And Falcon has also been a member for almost as long as he's existed. And there's a reason for that.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

CK, as much as it mightgall some people, he's absolutely right about second-stringers, no matter what their race or whatever. Doesn't matter if they are black, white, or alien. They just don't belong with top tier heroes. And Hawkeye is not a second-stringer, he's a founding member of the Avengers. And Falcon has also been a member for almost as long as he's existed. And there's a reason for that.

Hence why my suggestions wasn't kicking out "A-tiers" in favor off "C-lister" who happens to be non-white.

[Candy Kappa]

Although, if the show is going to use Wally West as the current Flash, he might be based off the New 52 version who's biracial. The Flash TV show have cast Keiynan Lonsdale to play Wally West in season 2, so it's very likely.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Although, if the show is going to use Wally West as the current Flash, he might be based off the New 52 version who's biracial. The Flash TV show have cast Keiynan Lonsdale to play Wally West in season 2, so it's very likely.

That is another thing. A classic character is sidelined then becoming him by name alone. Wally has red hair and a fun loving yet serious attitude. No neef to shake up a successfil character and make them something thry are not. I love Wally not this race changing experiment called Wally West 30.

[sdp]

I wonder how many of the people complaining are even minorities. That's who the justice league is, you can't change that fact. Are we going to retcon Han Solo as being black because the original movie had no black characters? No, you make a new interesting character like the new movie is making. Lando becoming a part of the cast in RotJ worked as well but making a character who doesn't make sense a major character for the sake of diversity is just stupid. I'm sorry you either like the all white JL or you don't. I don't expect other classic stories to change, if you're so upset just then like something else. I feel the same way with complains about female character outfits or randomly making someone gay for the sake of it. But those are other types of discussions. Sucks to be Irish since now the only known popular Irish hero is now black.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

That is another thing. A siccrssfil character is sidelined then becoming him by name alone. Wally has red hair and a fun loving yet serious attitude. No neef to shake up a successfil character and make them something thry are not. I love Wally not this race changing experiment called Wally West 3.0.

I'm not sure why a black Wally West can't be fun loving in a TV show? And there exists black gingers if his hair color was that essential.

[MikeandRaph87]

I like your idea Leo. Legends of the DC Universe taking off the late 90s/ early 2000s title could work. It could be a team up or an individual or a look at the JSA or The original Outsidwrs sans Batman. I would watch it and a toy opportunity to make money from the younger set.

I see you dont care for Ollie and Carter being in the heavy hitter JLA lineup I would have forva tv show. I think of it as three sets of three. First Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. Then Aquaman, Green Lantern, and Flash. Finally the third group of three is Green Arrow, Hawkman, and Martian Manhunter. Asd in Captain Marvel and three sidekicks Robin, Batgirl, and Dupetgirl and those are DC's biggest characters and even half of them could not hold a title alone.

I like the Satellite wra because its the first string along with most second string heroes of DC pre-crisis and would love to relive that which I missed when it was printed in some form.

[CyberCubed]

I don't even care how many black, asian, indian, muslim, jewish, etc. superheroes are in a TV show. Just make a good series and stop changing character races for the hell of it.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

That is another thing. A classic character is sidelined then becoming him by name alone. Wally has red hair and a fun loving yet serious attitude. No neef to shake up a successfil character and make them something thry are not. I love Wally not this race changing experiment called Wally West 30.

That doesn't make any sense. How is the fact that he's black suppose to keep Wally from acting the same as before?