Michael Keaton reveals why he turned down returning in Batman Forever, "It sucked" - Page 2

saintsaucey · 01-03-2017, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

I'm not a huge fan of the Nolan films like most people are. I thought Bane was terrible. I thought Two-Face was also terribly used. I hated the Tumbler as opposed to an actual Batmobile. I also wasn't gaga over Ledger as the Joker. Mark Hamill still perfectly owns the character to me. The one thing I do like about the Nolan films is I feel that Bale made the best "Batman". However, I think Burton has the major edge on his version of Gotham. I know that's right in his wheelhouse though. I think Nolan's Gotham looks much too "industrialized" whereas Burton's actually looked "gothic". Danny Elfman is also incomparable from a musical standpoint but I still hate that Prince sequence in the first Burton one. Totally out of place to me and I felt that Jack's Joker was more of a "Joke" than "Joker". Much more Romero than Hamill. I love Hamill. Just my two cents.

Bale was a ****** Batman. Worst part of the Nolan franchise

T-U-R-T-L-E POWA! · 01-03-2017, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsaucey

Bale was a ****** Batman. Worst part of the Nolan franchise

Actually I meant to say he made the best "Bruce Wayne". My bad about that. I agree that the whole ridiculous voice thing was terrible.

*MikeandRaph87* · 01-03-2017, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Speaking of Batman Forever I just read Sam Raimi lobbied to direct the movie once Tim Burton left but they went with Shumacher instead. I would have loved to seen a Sam Raimi batman movie.

I think it would have gave us a little of everything the way his Spider-Man films did. Not too dark, not too light, just right. There would not be a backlash on the film as it is today. I wonder how Schumaker got it over others. The Raimi statement is making me go fanboy in "what ifs". No neon, no Bat nipples, maybe no Batman Begins.

*Wildcat* · 01-03-2017, 10:50 PM

I've always liked Forever (and B&R to an extent) better than the Burton movies.

The Burton movies just didn't add up to me. Especially Returns. I still kinda don't get it. Penguin wants to take over the city out of spite? Catwoman is just there to cause mischief? I don't know...there's just no storyline really.

I think the characters were portrayed really good though.

*Coola Yagami* · 01-04-2017, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I've always liked Forever (and B&R to an extent) better than the Burton movies.

The Burton movies just didn't add up to me. Especially Returns. I still kinda don't get it. Penguin wants to take over the city out of spite? Catwoman is just there to cause mischief? I don't know...there's just no storyline really.

I think the characters were portrayed really good though.

Catwoman was out to kill Max Shrek. She did rob some of his stores and whatnot.

Penguin wanted to use Shrek to get all names of the firstborns to kill them all.

The thing is Max suddenly making Penguin run for mayor derailed his plans for a bit. Catwoman's sudden decision to play super villain team up also derailed her plans.

*CyberCubed* · 01-04-2017, 01:26 AM

Penguin becoming Mayor of a City when he came from the sewers might seem odd, but we live in a reality where Donald Trump became president. So you can't question the logic of ordinary voters even in a comic book movie. (Yes, even as a kid I thought that made no sense)

*Wildcat* · 01-04-2017, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Catwoman was out to kill Max Shrek. She did rob some of his stores and whatnot.

Penguin wanted to use Shrek to get all names of the firstborns to kill them all.

The thing is Max suddenly making Penguin run for mayor derailed his plans for a bit. Catwoman's sudden decision to play super villain team up also derailed her plans.

I actually went to go read the Wikipedia description. Penguin wanting to kill all first borns does not make sense to me. It's been awhile since I've seen the movie but it's just an oddly specific plan for no reason. Unless I'm forgetting something or it's not clear enough.

Besides the story there's a few things between both Burton movies I didn't like or just thought were dumb. The Batwing being shot down, Batmobile being easily hacked, bulletproof bat suit gets ripped by Catwoman.

saintsaucey · 01-04-2017, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I actually went to go read the Wikipedia description. Penguin wanting to kill all first borns does not make sense to me. It's been awhile since I've seen the movie but it's just an oddly specific plan for no reason. Unless I'm forgetting something or it's not clear enough.

Besides the story there's a few things between both Burton movies I didn't like or just thought were dumb. The Batwing being shot down, Batmobile being easily hacked, bulletproof bat suit gets ripped by Catwoman.

Oswald was the first born son of a pair of rich socialites who cast him aside because of his freakish behavior. Since they were did he struck back at all of the kids who were accepted. The first born kids of all the kids who were accepted.

*Voltron* · 01-04-2017, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

I prefer the batman burton movies to the sumacher ones. Tommy Lee Jones was a horrible Two-Face and Jim Carrey was just Jim Carrey dressed as the riddler. Also Kilmer's batman was a wuss

From what I heard, Carrey was channeling Frank Gorshin's Riddler from the old 60's show. It was over-the-top and campy, which clashed with the darker tones of the film.

In the end, Forever didn't know what kind of movie it was supposed to be. The villains were camp. The heroes were brooding and dramatic. When they cross, they have a hard time deciding which they should be. Was Two-Face a ruthless killer? Or was he some goofball who steals entire bank vaults? They really needed to pick one and just go with it.

*Coola Yagami* · 01-04-2017, 09:38 AM

The problem was Two Face was Joker light, while we know Tommy Lee Jones could have done a much better job of he had better direction... and Jim Carrey was Jim Carrey.

*Shark_Blade* · 01-04-2017, 07:17 PM

Batman Returns is the best Batman film tbh. Followed by The Dark Knight.

saintsaucey · 01-04-2017, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Batman Returns is the best Batman film tbh. Followed by The Dark Knight.

~~Vegita-San~~ · 01-04-2017, 07:51 PM

batman returns was down right disgusting. penguin eating fish...WHY?

despite the stupid neon, i liked forever far better.

I even liked bits and pieces of batman and robin.

*Autbot_Benz* · 01-04-2017, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

batman returns was down right disgusting. penguin eating fish...WHY?

despite the stupid neon, i liked forever far better.

I even liked bits and pieces of batman and robin.

Penguins eat Fish and Danny Devito loves Sushi so he had no problem doing those scenes. Since Burton's version of Penguin was a Sewer bird monster it made sense.

*ToTheNines* · 01-04-2017, 08:00 PM

I wish Sharkie would stop trolling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Sewer bird monster made sense.

Lol, ok.

*MikeandRaph87* · 01-04-2017, 08:42 PM

Penguin eating fish. Okay. Catwoman eating birds such as this however...

There is also a mention just before that of her having sex with an ally cat.

Over the top gross?!

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-04-2017, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

There is also a mention just before that of her having sex with an ally cat.

Over the top gross?!

Wait, what? I sure as hell don't remember that. Methinks you remember falsely.

*MikeandRaph87* · 01-04-2017, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Wait, what? I sure as hell don't remember that. Methinks you remember falsely.

Its in the scene right after she redid her apartment following her transformation. She alludes to it then. As corny as Batman & Robin was Batman Returns was trying to hard in the other direction.

Edit: Another thing I could not figure out was why The Penguin had clown stooges instead of The Joker. I get that Joker was half Joe Chill,but come on!

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-04-2017, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Its in the scene right after she redid her apartment following her transformation. She alludes to it then. As corny as Batman & Robin was Batman Returns was trying to hard in the other direction.

Edit: Another thing I could not figure out was why The Penguin had clown stooges instead of The Joker. I get that Joker was half Joe Chill,but come on!

Huh. I suppose I could rewatch to find out, but that's not gonna happen.

*MikeandRaph87* · 01-04-2017, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Huh. I suppose I could rewatch to find out, but that's not gonna happen.

Same here. Twice in a lifetime is enough. As craazy as Gotham is its better. At least Pfifer isn't the imposter Catwoman from that 2004 film. Also, Batman & Robin has Robin and Mr. Freeze and despite the cold cheese is watchable if you look at it through popcorn flick glasses. It was fixable too. Save Barbara and Bane for another film, rework the dialog and it would be much better. Returns is too hard to fix.

Excluding the WB! season Batman:TAS is better than any of the 8 Batman films.

01-03-2017, 10:50 PM	#24
Wildcat Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 3,516	I've always liked Forever (and B&R to an extent) better than the Burton movies. The Burton movies just didn't add up to me. Especially Returns. I still kinda don't get it. Penguin wants to take over the city out of spite? Catwoman is just there to cause mischief? I don't know...there's just no storyline really. I think the characters were portrayed really good though. __________________ Nothing can survive the will to stay alive, cause if you try, you can do anything.

01-04-2017, 09:38 AM	#30
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,719	The problem was Two Face was Joker light, while we know Tommy Lee Jones could have done a much better job of he had better direction... and Jim Carrey was Jim Carrey. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

01-04-2017, 08:42 PM	#36
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	Penguin eating fish. Okay. Catwoman eating birds such as this however... There is also a mention just before that of her having sex with an ally cat. Over the top gross?! __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

01-04-2017, 01:26 AM	#26
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,887	Penguin becoming Mayor of a City when he came from the sewers might seem odd, but we live in a reality where Donald Trump became president. So you can't question the logic of ordinary voters even in a comic book movie. (Yes, even as a kid I thought that made no sense)

01-04-2017, 07:17 PM	#31
Shark_Blade Emperor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,909	Batman Returns is the best Batman film tbh. Followed by The Dark Knight.

01-04-2017, 07:51 PM	#33
~~Vegita-San~~ Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 6,089	batman returns was down right disgusting. penguin eating fish...WHY? despite the stupid neon, i liked forever far better. I even liked bits and pieces of batman and robin.