Young Justice animated series

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Honestly, I feel the worst for bisexual people because they seemingly get it from all sides (wakka wakka). Straight people hate them for being "deviants", and gay people hate them for "not picking a side". It really must be frustrating to be a marginalized minority and be forced to eat sh*t from OTHER marginalized minorities who really ought to know better.

Ain't that the truth.

I've had a lot of gay/lesbian folks get mad at me over it. When I was younger, and dating, this one girl I was interested in was like, "Bi? Why are you bi? Just be a lesbian! Join the dark side, lol!" I didn't like that attitude at all. If sexuality is something inherent, as many LGBT claim, then how could I 'choose' to be a lesbian? And honestly, I thought it was distasteful to call it the dark side like that. I dunno, I guess she was just immature. Actually, I got dumped by a girlfriend when I admitted to being bi because she assumed that meant I'd cheat on her with a guy too.

As for straight people, what I have mostly gotten is dudes who think me being bi means I am a 'rainbow haired land whale', and they just assume my ideologies, and harass me over it. It sucks.

In terms of fiction, it just seems lazy. "We don't want to write the character with any nuance, so we simply say they're 'bisexual' but exclusively grant them same-sex partners, just to make sure people really 'get it'. And also, that way we can walk it back later if people don't care for it." It's rare you see any character written to be a "proper" bisexual; they generally end up Just Being Gay, and again, that's kind of lazy from a writing standpoint.

Yeah, I agree. It's weird because they act like it's the other way around, and that a bisexual in a hetero relationship doesn't make it legit and whatever. I think there's better ways to write bi characters and make it organic, and better ways to explore a teenager realizing they might not be completely straight. They just opt not to, posture about sexuality and how 'woke' their characters/show are, stick them with the same sex, and call it a day. This is why I wrote that challenge for people to describe Violet outside her sexuality, race, religion, and her powers. I bet they can't. Because she is completely defined by these traits. Not a very interesting or compelling character at all.

[Leo656]

That sucks, sorry you went through all that but I can't say it surprises me.

One of my all-time favorite movies is "Chasing Amy", but a huge inherent flaw in it is that once the term "bisexual" became more prominent it essentially erases the movie's entire raison d'etre, at least on a surface level. The main female character's entire "identity crisis" is about whether she likes Guys or Girls, as if "I Like Both" isn't even an option. Looking back on the year it was made, I *kind of* understand that, because you really did "have to" be one or the other back then, or at the least there was a lot less understanding and acceptance of bisexuality at that point in time, but it still feels weird when you watch it nowadays. "Why is she so tortured about all this? You're totally allowed to f*ck both, did nobody explain this to poor Alyssa?"

It's a sincere and heartfelt and well-meaning movie, but you can totally tell a straight guy wrote it. BUT, it is well-intentioned so as clumsy as it is it gets a pass. I know for a fact that it helped some of my friends reach a better understanding of themselves and their own sexuality back then, so it did do some good. It's just a bit of an odd duck Now.

That scene where all the lesbians turn on Alyssa for dating a man, though... from what I've been told, that bit is very true-to-life. I find that to be unfortunate. But again, it doesn't shock me that people are like that.

I admit that my own experience on the subject is very limited, but in my own writing I do strive very hard to not write bisexual characters as one-note or "false". I actually feel like it's rather easy to do so long as it's not the Very First Trait you come up with for that character or the thing they're most defined by. Unless the plot of the story is largely about who they're f*cking it shouldn't necessarily have to take up a ton of real estate. That's my own opinion, anyway.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

That sucks, sorry you went through all that but I can't say it surprises me.

One of my all-time favorite movies is "Chasing Amy", but a huge inherent flaw in it is that once the term "bisexual" became more prominent it essentially erases the movie's entire raison d'etre, at least on a surface level. The main female character's entire "identity crisis" is about whether she likes Guys or Girls, as if "I Like Both" isn't even an option. Looking back on the year it was made, I *kind of* understand that, because you really did "have to" be one or the other back then, or at the least there was a lot less understanding and acceptance of bisexuality at that point in time, but it still feels weird when you watch it nowadays. "Why is she so tortured about all this? You're totally allowed to f*ck both, did nobody explain this to poor Alyssa?"

Yep, I agree with all of this on Chasing Amy. Bisexuality wasn't considered a 'thing' back then.

It's a sincere and heartfelt and well-meaning movie, but you can totally tell a straight guy wrote it. BUT, it is well-intentioned so as clumsy as it is it gets a pass. I know for a fact that it helped some of my friends reach a better understanding of themselves and their own sexuality back then, so it did do some good. It's just a bit of an odd duck Now.

I think Smith was trying, yes, but he was still ignorant about sexuality, and particularly about lesbian culture (well...aside from the thing we discuss below, ha ha). HOWEVER, the movie wasn't trying to talk down to audiences, or 'educate' them on anything. It was just a goofy romcom about people who didn't know what they really wanted for their lives. I'll take it over the sort of arrogant trash we get now...

That scene where all the lesbians turn on Alyssa for dating a man, though... from what I've been told, that bit is very true-to-life. I find that to be unfortunate. But again, it doesn't shock me that people are like that.

Yes, that's accurate, especially when it comes to bisexual females surrounded by lesbians. Many lesbians get very territorial about this. I think Smith got that right, and I wonder if he knew this from having actually witnessed such a confrontation. One of the accusations gays and lesbians throw at me is that I was 'cured by c*ck' because I married a man. But no, I still find women attractive. I just, you know, made a commitment, and am now married. My spouse and I even check out girls together. It's fun. There's also this notion that bisexuals will cheat because they can't control or confine themselves. This is bullcrap, of course. If someone cheats, it's due to that individual lacking self control, not their sexuality. Some straight men and women can and do cheat, for instance.

I admit that my own experience on the subject is very limited, but in my own writing I do strive very hard to not write bisexual characters as one-note or "false". I actually feel like it's rather easy to do so long as it's not the Very First Trait you come up with for that character or the thing they're most defined by. Unless the plot of the story is largely about who they're f*cking it shouldn't necessarily have to take up a ton of real estate. That's my own opinion, anyway.

Yeah. It's just like any good character writing. I don't mind a sprinkling or hinting of a character's sexuality, or even a full out romance. Obviously, the writer must make it satisfying, and something that will have meaning for the overall story. Problem is, nowadays, they weaponize sexuality in fiction as a means to lecture the audience. It's not a "Aww look these two characters fell in love" or "look the character realized he's gay", it's more of a "if you don't agree with my ideology, you are a bad person".

It doesn't just happen with sexuality either. I've seen bad writers do this with all sorts of topics. Skilled writers can weave any subject into a story well, and make it work. Sadly, there are many hacks out there, and they only care about pushing agendas, not telling entertaining and meaningful stories.

[Leo656]

You're good, you should post more often.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You're good, you should post more often.

Thanks a lot! Maybe I will.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It really must be frustrating to be a marginalized minority and be forced to eat sh*t from OTHER marginalized minorities who really ought to know better.

I always found it puzzling, like LG are harassed for their sexuality, yet they harass other people for the same reason, demanding them to "choose" sexuality, even though one of the core ideas of theirs is that "sexuality can not be chosen".

It doesn't make sense and looks petty.

[Coola Yagami]

I've been lucky to not have met any of the extreme cases. I know a few they/them peeps, but I never see them lecture people about it nor do they jump all over my **** whenever I accidentally call em she or whatever.

[Vegita-San]

damn. I mostly liked the first half of season 3. even with the obviously pandering muslum character (which they would apparently not like if 'it' was non binary, or whatever 'they' is)..

seeems like this show is a write off, which is a damn shame. 1 and 2 where pretty good seasons.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I always found it puzzling, like LG are harassed for their sexuality, yet they harass other people for the same reason, demanding them to "choose" sexuality, even though one of the core ideas of theirs is that "sexuality can not be chosen".

It doesn't make sense and looks petty.

sometimes it all DOES come off as one big mental disorder. like, why did this stuff mostly pop upin the 50's and beyond? or was it just a secret society seldom talked about in earlier days?

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I always found it puzzling, like LG are harassed for their sexuality, yet they harass other people for the same reason, demanding them to "choose" sexuality, even though one of the core ideas of theirs is that "sexuality can not be chosen".

It doesn't make sense and looks petty.

Every single organized group in existance has bullies. All of them.

Growing up, I went to a Christian church because my mother was one, and yeah, a lot of them were not nice to each other. I also grew up in a city with a Hispanic population, and believe me, there was a lot of friction even within the same race(s). Humans can be horrible, even to their own.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

sometimes it all DOES come off as one big mental disorder. like, why did this stuff mostly pop upin the 50's and beyond? or was it just a secret society seldom talked about in earlier days?

I don't really see it as a 'mental disorder'. Some people are a-holes, some are not. Some of us just want to live our lives in peace, and others don't. It's the history of humanity, a lot of people want conformity to their whims, and want everyone around them to fall in line.

To add yet another anecdote, a neighbor has been anonymously reporting my home for having 'the grass too high', and we got threatened with a fine. Mind you, we are just getting out of winter here, and barely anyone's mowed their lawn yet. Our grass isn't even two inches tall. The same neighbor did this to us in 2020. We're new to the neighborhood, and it seems they want us to 'fall in line', and control how we run our house. It seems crazy to me because I'd never snitch on someone like that, but......yeah. People can be control freaks, and it sucks for those of us who want to be left to our own devices.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I don't really see it as a 'mental disorder'. Some people are a-holes, some are not. Some of us just want to live our lives in peace, and others don't. It's the history of humanity, a lot of people want conformity to their whims, and want everyone around them to fall in line.

To add yet another anecdote, a neighbor has been anonymously reporting my home for having 'the grass too high', and we got threatened with a fine. Mind you, we are just getting out of winter here, and barely anyone's mowed their lawn yet. Our grass isn't even two inches tall. The same neighbor did this to us in 2020. We're new to the neighborhood, and it seems they want us to 'fall in line', and control how we run our house. It seems crazy to me because I'd never snitch on someone like that, but......yeah. People can be control freaks, and it sucks for those of us who want to be left to our own devices.

that much is VERY true. everything everyone fought for from the 90s on up is loosing what they've tried so hard to gain because of these 'nut jobs' that are in every camp. Either they want to trry and build it all up again after they destroyed it so they can be perceived as 'heroes' or they are just screwed up...

[Coola Yagami]

I think the overall cartoon supervillain goal of 'ruling the world' or 'the world needs order... MY order' is an overall an extension of that. Deep down most of us want the people around us to 'fall in line' in some form of another. All of us eventually have to learn and come to terms with the fact that people are individuals and the world isn't Burger King, we can't always have it our way.

The issue is a lot of the extreme woke left crazies almost fall into supervillain territory of wanting those around them to 'fall in line' while still thinking they're the good guys.

For how quick they are to invoke Hitler's name every time someone disagrees with them, they forget that Hitler considered himself a good guy and thought he was doing what he was doing for 'the greater good'. He wasn't some cartoonish supervillain cackling evily in his private moments or whatever as lightning struck behind him. He legit thought he was the hero of his story, and so many insane leftists fail to see just how much in common they have with him and his line of thinking.

Gina Carano was pretty much cancelled and fired for coming up with the same conclusion. The truth hurts, you woke morons. For people that quick to compare everyone they don't like with Hitler, they sure have a hard time keeping his **** out of their mouths. Same with Trump, which pretty much became their modern-day version of Hitler. I musta missed the day Trump tried to go for mass genocide, but damn, those tweets were mean though.

[Sumac]

Another thing that makes wokeys similar to the supervillains is like how they incapable to live with defeat. Every time something or someone puts those freaks in their place, they will recall it again and again trying to find a reason why it wasn't their fault, they had failed.

Trump is particularly good example: even though he didn't do anything specifically out of line for a president of US (outside of his Twitter stuff), he is still regarded as an enemy Number 1 and this is only, because, he proved to those freaks, that they are not a majority, they are not in control and their ideology is not a dominant one in US.

Its like those freaks had emotional maturity of children, who can't forgive and forget.

[ZariusTwo]

The season finale has been airing in some countries

Spoiler:

Connor and M'Gann get married, Lor-Zod is sent back in time and killed, and there's a post-credits cliffhanger revealing Mary Marvel and Kara are furies

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The season finale has been airing in some countries

Spoiler:

Connor and M'Gann get married, Lor-Zod is sent back in time and killed, and there's a post-credits cliffhanger revealing Mary Marvel and Kara are furies

I feel like 2012 me would've been excited by this (the idea of it), but 2022 me is mostly 'meh'. YJ just feels like such a chore to get through now. I watched many clips on Youtube for Phantoms, and it just seems like a bad soap opera now. I felt like the first season balanced the character development and superhero plotlines very, very well. Season two didn't do it as well, though still decent and wrapped up in a satisfying manner. Then the revival stuff's been...bleh, just lots of melodrama, posturing, overt focus on things like pronouns and sexuality, etc. I really dislike the way they handled Beastboy's depression, for instance. I feel like season one would've written it much more subtle and nuanced, while season four just blasts it in the audiences' faces, and has the other characters act in this pompous, conceited manner. Maybe it's due to my own experiences with depression, but I've met people like that, who oversimplify depression and just make matters worse.

...Anyway, yeah. I wish the show had never been resurrected. I feel like the additional seasons just taint the originals for me. I didn't even like that season 2 removed focus from the original cast, though like I said, at least the show hadn't deep dived into what it's become now.

[ZariusTwo]

It's a shame too because Wiesman was usually the "could of been king" of animation with how many series he had plans for, which always got derailed by cancelations...YJ is pretty much the longest show he's worked on that he had a hand in developing and it turns out it's a case of "be careful what you wish for"

Maybe he's best in small doses.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It's a shame too because Wiesman was usually the "could of been king" of animation with how many series he had plans for, which always got derailed by cancelations...YJ is pretty much the longest show he's worked on that he had a hand in developing and it turns out it's a case of "be careful what you wish for"

Maybe he's best in small doses.

Weisman was great. I actually really liked this previous works like Spectacular Spider-Man, WITCH (he worked on season 2 which I preferred to season 1), Gargoyles, etc. Unfortunately, he's...changed. His priorities in his storytelling are different than they were years ago, I'll just say that.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Weisman was great. I actually really liked this previous works like Spectacular Spider-Man, WITCH (he worked on season 2 which I preferred to season 1), Gargoyles, etc. Unfortunately, he's...changed. His priorities in his storytelling are different than they were years ago, I'll just say that.

Some of these tendencies also turned up a bit in his Gargoyles comics revival.

I think he's one of those guys who's better off restricted by networks who can occasionally slip things under the radar, but leave him unfiltered and you get something like this.

Still, I do like his Catwoman movie (not for the obvious reason either)

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It's a shame too because Wiesman was usually the "could of been king" of animation with how many series he had plans for, which always got derailed by cancelations...YJ is pretty much the longest show he's worked on that he had a hand in developing and it turns out it's a case of "be careful what you wish for"

Maybe he's best in small doses.

I'm long had a suspicion his style of storytelling probably holds up best when the payoff never comes, on account of the fan speculation taking on a life of its own. I was very much letdown with the apparent payoff of Season 2 of YJ and I haven't even bothered to watch any of the new seasons despite owning the physical discs.

[drgon78]

I like his work on season 2 of Witch and in most ways liked better then season 1. But yeah wasn't too impressed with YJ season 3, I haven't seen season 4.

So what was cause of Beastboy's depression?