Seein Red

[Redeemer]

I say keep colored head bands. That it.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

If they have a better idea, it's all good IMO but wouldn't you agree that all red bandanas would be a clear attention grabber?

I wouldn't agree with that. All it would say to most people "not in the know" is that the Ninja Turtles are now completely generic and uniformed.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Stryker

I wouldn't agree with that. All it would say to most people "not in the know" is that the Ninja Turtles are now completely generic and uniformed.

Really?

By "not in the know," do you mean those people who are unfamiliar with the comic?

I suppose I just figured that a drastic change (such as a bandana color swap) would be a good way to get the attention of OT fans. They would definately notice if their childhood heroes suddenly had a serious makeover.

[Redeemer]

That is a good point go with the different colored bandannas.

[Krang]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I understant that but I'm curious HOW they plan to bring said new audience.

Good question. But I personally don't entirely agree with the new audience concept, so that's one for those who do agree with it to answer.

If they have a better idea, it's all good IMO but wouldn't you agree that all red bandanas would be a clear attention grabber?

You're right, it would. I'm not sure that it would be a good idea to focus on that for advertising, though, since ads like that don't always work.

Originally Posted by Kiwamu The Kappa

all know that the white ninja is a good guy, the black ninja is a bad guy and the gray ninja changes sides

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Kiwamu The Kappa

all know that the white ninja is a good guy, the black ninja is a bad guy and the gray ninja changes sides

Gi Joe made a big mistake then:

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

I can understand you are a fan of the comics and want the movie to be like it,

It's not about what I want -- I'm saying that's pretty much the only option left that they haven't already exhausted.

And it's an option that seems to be working out great for other comic-to-movie franchises.

but you seem to be pushing that your version is better.

Oh, you mean Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird's version? Yes, I do believe that version is better and I don't believe I should have to apologize if that offends anyone.

Red bandannas are nowhere near more realistic than colored ones.

Feel free to quantify that.

Yeah a bit more goofy maybe but so is the original red ones if you want to over analyze.

OK, well yes... in all fairness, the answer to the question "Why do the TMNT wear bandannas?" is, literally, because when Eastman and Laird were doing their first Turtle sketches they determined that a bandanna around the eyes made them seem more "ninja-like."

Nevertheless, they're a trope of the Turtles and a given. As such, I think it's prudent to go with the most sensible "take" on them out there... and, yeah, I think that would be the one without all the rainbow colors.

All red would not give any message that this is an mature version.

It would help.

The age range for the turtles 40s? what? I'd say early 30s are the ones who were already pretty old when they got into a kids franchise. If transformers did well with the nostalgia crowd and its a much older fanbase then the turtles will do fine with that audience since they are younger. Not to mention they also have a few of the older people who watched 2k3 as kids. Obviously those people can't hold a movie by themselves it also needs to appeal to a new generation of kids.

They have to be the driving focus. The existing fans and nostalgic adults would only be of peripheral concern... as they should be.

There is no way they can make this into a "this isn't the turtles you know from the cartoons"

Sure they can.

Especially since the movie is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Their age is irrelevant. The movie "Kick-Ass" has a 10 year old girl in it chopping off body parts and talking about c*cks.

Not that I'm trying to say it should or could be a hard-R movie such as that.

You can make it more serious but Batman this is not.

In many respects the TMNT source material is more serious than Batman. But it's a funny thing... at it's lightest it is much lighter than Batman at his lightest, but at its darkest it seems to be a bit darker than Batman at his darkest.

I mean, you don't see Batman going around chopping off heads or limbs, do you?

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

I wouldn't mind all black masks in the least. It could make sense for a new universe too.

I would jump aboard that boat, sure.

Originally Posted by Krutch

Making your opponent think he's outnumbered is a clever tactic... And entirely un-ninja like.

Of course, but they can't employ straight ninja/stealth assassination tactics against a room full of Foot. And it would be pretty stupid (limiting?) if the Turtles were unable to adapt to a given scenario.

The opponent shouldn't even know he's in danger until he hits the floor. Ninjas aren't Batman. They don't use scare tactics. They sneak around the defense and hit their mark before anyone knows they're there.

Ideally. But that's not always possible.

And for arguments sake let's use the scare tactic scenerio with colored headbands. Assuming it's at night, which I assume it would be, if I'm only just seeing glimpses of the turtles I wouldn't make out the color of their bandana anyways.

Maye it's time for a new prescription.

You're also forgetting the sole fact that they are MUTANTS WITH WEAPONS. That alone is enough to intimidate. I doubt their target is gonna care what colors they're wearing.

Between the Foot, Triceratons, Complete Carnage, Savanti, etc., the Turtles don't seem to run into a lot of enemies that crap their pants about the mutant factor. I don't think they would be counting on that, really.

Originally Posted by Krang

That goes back to the question I asked before: What would be the purpose of bandannas? I very much doubt they would be part of a uniform unless there was a reason for them to be.

As I wrote above, yes, the bandannas are there because -- for better or worse -- Kev and Pete decided that adding bandannas made their Turtles look more ninja-like. I'd be surprised if it was any more complex than that, and I doubt much more thought was afforded it than that.

It's not because of the comics?

The comics create the precedent for them, not the direct necessity. The necessity is twofold, primarily: 1) Send out ye olde message, "Maybe you've heard of the TMNT... y'know how goofy and such they seemed? Well, this isn't that," and, 2) They're more sensible than the alternative: the rainbow bandannas.

Then why should there be bandannas at all rather than more traditional ninja uniforms?

Because there's no real precedent for that in any media, Tristan's couple of Tales comics notwithstanding.

Not that I'd be necessarily against the idea.

Huh? I'm just saying that ninja clans with red bandannas are not realistic. I didn't even mention colored bandannas...

You didn't need to.

Not to me. Like Krutch said, if you're a ninja, you aren't supposed to be seen at all until it's too late for your enemies. If they're spotted before they attack, it would be all over for them against skilled enemies, who aren't going to just stand there and be scared. Any martial artist can tell you that it's incredibly important not to allow your opponent to predict your attacks.

As I said, every battle and scenario is going to be different.

The OT was most popular in the early 90s, and as I recall, that popularity lasted at least through 1992 or 93.

But by 96? That's an eternity in kid years/taste. I know that by the time TMNT 3 dropped (and I do mean dropped... ker-plunk right into the bowl, that is) no one seemed to care. Folks had already outgrown TMNT and moved on.

I would've moved right on with them had I not discovered the comics.

You're saying that there weren't enough young kids who began watching during that time (and would now be in their early-mid 20s) to be worth counting?

You mean the few who started watching from 93-96? No, to movie studios and financiers this number would not be worth counting. Sorry for that.

Yet you're saying that there were more people in their mid-late teens watching during that time (who would now be in their late 30s)? Wow, so much for target demographics...

Where did I say that? I was playing devil's advocate on what you're saying and implying... that there's alllll these aged-out-of-target-demographic fans (fans that somehow didn't bother to support the last movie) that are going to flock to see a OS TMNT movie and make it a big hit in spite of that flying in the face of every bit of quantifiable data we know about (actioner) demographics.

I agree, it's bulls***.

But if this is supposed to be bringing in an entirely new audience, they wouldn't need to send such a message.

Not untrue. But why not, while they're at it, you know?

[Candy Kappa]

[QUOTE=Buffy;763872]Gi Joe made a big mistake then:QUOTE]

no rule without exceptions

[plastroncafe]

I like the red masks. Makes me as the viewer/reader have to pay just that much more attention to what's going on in the scene. Is it confusing at first? Well yeah, but...you get used to it.

First time through the HBO mini-series "Band of Brothers" I had no idea who anyone was. Bunch of white guys in military uniforms. But as time wore on it became second nature to know who was who by the million little things that make everyone different.

I don't think this would be any different.

But precedent has been set, and yeah, it's more than likely that the turtles will have multicolored masks like in the cartoons and live action movies. Which...to me just says that people think that kids are too stupid to tell one character from another. But...what're you gonna do?

What I'd really love to see in this next live action movie is maskless turtles.

Don't get me wrong, I love the masks. They're great in terms of cartoon style. Masks being a classic element in the super hero genre.
They make sense in the world. The turtles sweat, but don't have eyebrows. Masks make sense.

And in terms of color coding? Yeah, I've always fallen to the idea that they did it for April's sake...even when the canons themselves don't lean towards that conclusion.

But maskless turtles, even for a scene or two, would be awesome. And with the SFX tech that we've got now? I think it's more than possible that it could happen.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Don't get me wrong, I love the masks. They're great in terms of cartoon style. Masks being a classic element in the super hero genre. They make sense in the world. The turtles sweat, but don't have eyebrows. Masks make sense.

Actually, that's a very good point -- the bandannas could act as a sort of sweat band, yeah?

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Oh, you mean Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird's version? Yes, I do believe that version is better and I don't believe I should have to apologize if that offends anyone.

No ones asking for an apology. But... do you really think that someone can't build something better out of someone elses idea? Do you really think wrestling fans are missing the days of no storylines or unique characters of when McMahon's dad was running the place?

They has to be the driving focus. The existing fans and nostalgic adults would only be of peripheral concern... as they should be.

I dont see the logic in making a movie to purposely avoid existing fans of the franchise, whatever the incarnation may be. If you're trying to gather new fans altogether, why even take an existing property?

Of course, but they can't employ straight ninja/stealth assassination tactics against a room full of Foot. And it would be pretty stupid (limiting?) if the Turtles were unable to adapt to a given scenario.

Uh, yes, yes they could avoid a room of foot ninja. Because the turtles are superior ninja. And its not like the Foot would be actively looking for them. They'd be training, etc... And yes, the turtles should be able to adapt to any scenerio. But they wouldn't allow themselves to be caught in any other scenerio other than the one they planned out themselves, if they were real ninja.

Just shooting from the hip here, but misdirection and confusion? You see a shadowy figure moving in the shadows and catch just a glimpse of red against the darkness...

Maye it's time for a new prescription.

Uh, no. If its as dark as that example, red and orange would look pretty much the same. Purple and Blue would look the same. And they would all look brown/black in the darkness. And, again, this scenerio shouldn't even happen.

Between the Foot, Triceratons, Complete Carnage, Savanti, etc., the Turtles don't seem to run into a lot of enemies that crap their pants about the mutant factor. I don't think they would be counting on that, really.

And the Foot would be intimidated by numbers? They're always in enourmous numbers themselves. And Complete Carnage, Triceratons, and Savanti to some extent are all monsters themselves. That kind of avoids the fact. And again, if we are to get true ninja here, Turtles would only use sneak attacks.

You need to understand, ninjas are not noble in the least. They'd get paid to assassinate people. Sometimes they'd even hire their own cheaper work to get the job done and keep the cut themselves. The Ninja Turtles are far from real ninjas. People cant keep falling back on what a real ninja would be to defend the turtles image.

The comics create the precedent for them, not the direct necessity. The necessity is twofold, primarily: 1) Send out ye olde message, "Maybe you've heard of the TMNT... y'know how goofy and such they seemed? Well, this isn't that," and, 2) They're more sensible than the alternative: the rainbow bandannas.

I'll use Power Rangers again for a point. If you saw a poster of 5 red rangers together, would you think "Oh this is gonna be a mature take on the series" or would you just go "Huh? Why are they all wearing red?" and not give it another thought.

As I said, every battle and scenario is going to be different.

No.... pretty much ninjas just plan a stealth kill and vanish, or they wouldnt go through with it in the first place.

Not untrue. But why not, while they're at it, you know?

"Why not?" is the worst reason I've heard to defend a point Why not give Raph a gun? Why not make Mikey a heroin addict? You know, while they're at it. Appealing to new audiences and all.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Krutch

I dont see the logic in making a movie to purposely avoid existing fans of the franchise, whatever the incarnation may be. If you're trying to gather new fans altogether, why even take an existing property?

Because that's how Hollywood works?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Krutch

No ones asking for an apology. But... do you really think that someone can't build something better out of someone elses idea?

I think you can do whatever you want.

Do you really think wrestling fans are missing the days of no storylines or unique characters of when McMahon's dad was running the place?

I think nowadays wrestling fans are missing a lot of things from years ago.

I dont see the logic in making a movie to purposely avoid existing fans of the franchise, whatever the incarnation may be. If you're trying to gather new fans altogether, why even take an existing property?

It's a proven money-maker with untapped potential. And gritty comic books are pretty valuable real estate right now in films.

Uh, yes, yes they could avoid a room of foot ninja.

Who's talking about avoiding it? I'm talking about them taking out a room full of Foot ninja.

And the Foot would be intimidated by numbers? They're always in enourmous numbers themselves. And Complete Carnage, Triceratons, and Savanti to some extent are all monsters themselves. That kind of avoids the fact. And again, if we are to get true ninja here, Turtles would only use sneak attacks.

You need to understand, ninjas are not noble in the least. They'd get paid to assassinate people. Sometimes they'd even hire their own cheaper work to get the job done and keep the cut themselves. The Ninja Turtles are far from real ninjas. People cant keep falling back on what a real ninja would be to defend the turtles image.

While you raise valid points, it's well documented that while they are a legitimate ninja clan of a sort, they do operate with a great sense of an almost samurai-like honor.

A bit of a contradiction in terms... but that's our Turtles. I like the dichotomy of it myself.

I'll use Power Rangers again

Please don't.

for a point. If you saw a poster of 5 red rangers together, would you think "Oh this is gonna be a mature take on the series" or would you just go "Huh? Why are they all wearing red?" and not give it another thought.

It would get me curious enough to do some digging to see what it's about, I suppose.

No one's suggesting the red bandannas is going to be some kind of end-all, be-all, "WOW! Look at those red bandannas -- this must be an all new take on the TMNT! I'm pre-ordering tickets now!!" Just that it'd help.

A little.

No.... pretty much ninjas just plan a stealth kill and vanish, or they wouldnt go through with it in the first place.

Not untrue. But it's not quite apples to apples when we're talking about ninjas fighting other ninjas. It would become like some kind of ridiculous shell game -- that's why most of the Foot vs. TMNT battles quickly descend into sort of these open, melee-type affairs.

"Why not?" is the worst reason I've heard to defend a point Why not give Raph a gun?

You mean again? He's used guns and blown away people on multiple occasions. Several Turtles have.

Why not make Mikey a heroin addict?

You're obviously joking but something in that vein (no pun intended) might lead to a pretty compelling story.

[Krang]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

As I wrote above, yes, the bandannas are there because -- for better or worse -- Kev and Pete decided that adding bandannas made their Turtles look more ninja-like. I'd be surprised if it was any more complex than that, and I doubt much more thought was afforded it than that.

My point exactly.

The comics create the precedent for them, not the direct necessity. The necessity is twofold, primarily: 1) Send out ye olde message, "Maybe you've heard of the TMNT... y'know how goofy and such they seemed? Well, this isn't that," and, 2) They're more sensible than the alternative: the rainbow bandannas.

Now "sensible" I can agree with. I don't care all that much about mask colors in general, but on the off chance that this movie will be a serious take on the TMNT based closely on the comics, I can see that red bandannas would make more sense than colored ones. But the reason I agree with that is because that's how it is in the comics, not because of any nonsense about them being realistic.

You didn't need to.

Considering the fact that the conversation wasn't about colored bandannas up to that point, neither did you.

As I said, every battle and scenario is going to be different.

Krutch already covered this topic well, but I'll also add this: I can't imagine any scenario where it would be a good idea for a ninja clan to give their enemies a tactical advantage by making themselves easier to see.

But by 96? That's an eternity in kid years/taste. I know that by the time TMNT 3 dropped (and I do mean dropped... ker-plunk right into the bowl, that is) no one seemed to care. Folks had already outgrown TMNT and moved on.

Yeah, I know. That's not what I was talking about, though.

You mean the few who started watching from 93-96?

No, I mean the ones who started watching during the period of popularity from 90 to 92 or 93, which is what I said in the sentence you just quoted above. The younger ones among them would now be in their early-mid 20s.

Where did I say that?

In two places, actually. In your first estimate when you said that OT fans are "in their 30s and 40s," and in your next post when you adjusted your estimate to say, "Late twenties to mid-to-late 30s." Both estimates include fans in their late 30s but refuse to acknowledge fans in their early-mid 20s, meaning that you're saying there are more of the former than the latter.

I was playing devil's advocate on what you're saying and implying... that there's alllll these aged-out-of-target-demographic fans (fans that somehow didn't bother to support the last movie) that are going to flock to see a OS TMNT movie and make it a big hit in spite of that flying in the face of every bit of quantifiable data we know about (actioner) demographics.

Wait, what? Either you're very confused, or that's a blatant straw man argument, because I never said or implied any of that...

Not untrue. But why not, while they're at it, you know?

Because, according to you, there aren't a significant number of OT fans who would see a new TMNT movie. Why should the creators waste their time and advertising money on them if they won't bring in the ticket sales? Besides, negative advertising tactics like that are prone to backfire.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think nowadays wrestling fans are missing a lot of things from years ago.

Todays wrestling sucks because they went too far and had to dial back. Now it just seems like a shell of the "attitude" era. But its still 100000 times better than pre-vince.

Who's talking about avoiding it? I'm talking about them taking out a room full of Foot ninja.

But why is my question. If they're target is the Shredder, they're not going to waste time taking out a room full of Foot. Thats not being ninja like at all. They would be practically invisible until they reach Shredder. And they wouldn't confront him to have a showdown, they'd stealth kill or poison him.

A bit of a contradiction in terms... but that's our Turtles. I like the dichotomy of it myself.

But you can't have it both ways. You're saying that its more ninja like to have red bandannas but its alright for them to pretty much be everything but ninja? And you're saying that this dichotomy cant involve different colored bandannas? If they are allowed to use different attack methods, different stealth methods, different honor-code, different way-of-life, then who's to say that they cant wear different colored headbands? Where do you draw the line?

No one's suggesting the red bandannas is going to be some kind of end-all, be-all, "WOW! Look at those red bandannas -- this must be an all new take on the TMNT!

Um...

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yes. And it would send a firm message that this is a new beginning/reboot, not a continuance of the other horrible movies.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Send out ye olde message, "Maybe you've heard of the TMNT... y'know how goofy and such they seemed? Well, this isn't that,"

But it's not quite apples to apples when we're talking about ninjas fighting other ninjas. It would become like some kind of ridiculous shell game -- that's why most of the Foot vs. TMNT battles quickly descend into sort of these open, melee-type affairs.

Look, this again goes back to the whole "what defines a ninja in the tmnt universe?" question. According to our history, neither of them are. So the reason that they break out into open melee fights are strictly for action-story telling purposes. Not that thats a bad thing. It's obviously a more compelling story when your heroes are in jeopardy, but its still not ninja.

You mean again? He's used guns and blown away people on multiple occasions. Several Turtles have.

Lol, yeah, I regretted typing that the second I posted that. I instantly thought of the cover of Bodycount and was like "well... let's hope my sarcasm was layed thick enough"

You're obviously joking but something in that vein (no pun intended) might lead to a pretty compelling story.

lol it would be kinda interesting, wouldnt it? I always saw Mikey as the addict

[Powder]

I just wanna say I feel like a proud father. You're all being so civil and making intelligent points that are backed by facts. Thank god for that. I'm sure you can all imagine the shlt storm this COULD be.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Powder

I just wanna say I feel like a proud father. You're all being so civil and making intelligent points that are backed by facts. Thank god for that. I'm sure you can all imagine the shlt storm this COULD be.

lmao, totally. You should have been on the Vanilla Ice message board about 6 years back. Sh*t was like Hiroshima.

[Scandia]

I do not want all red bandannas in a TMNT movie. I prefer the multicolored ones. Whoever decided on that for the OT had a wonderful idea.

[discordiatookie]

Originally Posted by Powder

I just wanna say I feel like a proud father. You're all being so civil and making intelligent points that are backed by facts. Thank god for that. I'm sure you can all imagine the shlt storm this COULD be.

Heh, I was reading through this earlier and thinking something similar. Great to see so many opinions, well thought out and not just pointless arguing.

As for me, I don't really mind either way. I'd love to see red bandanas, however if it goes the colour route, i'm still up for it...

[Samhain]

Originally Posted by discordiatookie

Heh, I was reading through this earlier and thinking something similar. Great to see so many opinions, well thought out and not just pointless arguing.

As for me, I don't really mind either way. I'd love to see red bandanas, however if it goes the colour route, i'm still up for it...

I agree. Just show there actually ARE mature people on this board. We are all on the same side anyways.