Talkback: Laird's 2k3 development notes!

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by cartoonistaaron

I think so as far as letting the Fred Wolf show go its own way, I don't think Laird had the power to pull rank and demand creative control. Plus - Turtlemania was in full swing in the late '80s and early '90s, and I don't think Eastman and Laird would have had time to pore over scripts, along with all the other Turtle stuff they were dealing with.

For the 2k3 show, Laird had 20 years of Turtle success to support his demand for creative control (if it was a demand - it seems like 4kids hired the writer, and he was good enough to get Laird involved). And by then, Mirage had a CEO running things, so Laird had more time to work on something like reviewing cartoon scripts.

Regarding the Shredder - I thought the Mirage comics Shredder had a ton of potential and a very compelling back story, almost like a reverse Batman. He was a villain but he wasn't a straight-up "bad guy." I know why they changed him for the kiddie-fied 80s show. But changing him into a straight-up "bad guy" for the more sophisticated 2k3 show just seemed to make him less interesting. He's a robot body with a little alien in his stomach, and he's pissed off, and he's the baddest dude in town... Okay? But what motivates him? He's evil? That works for a straight-up lunatic, but the Shredder was very calculating in the first season. Afterwards, he turned into kind of a brainless bad guy. I felt like all that potential character development was wasted.

I dunno, turning him into an Utrom seemed to have been done just so all the characters could freak out over him being an Utrom.

I agree with all of that, to start with.

But wasn't the whole thing with Mona Lisa, because of the "no female Turtles" edict, and that forced Eastman and Laird's involvement (re-design her and then abandon her), even when they long since left the series? Unique circumstances aside, you're right, as both men had their attentions focused on their empire, but as per Mona Lisa, they could force themselves to step in, if need be. And the irony to the Mona Lisa incident is that the fandom or enough of it rather digs her (including myself), to this day. You never know.

You're right, as Laird gained more experience about the licensing business, and with Gary Richardson eventually appearing as Mirage CEO, he would have had more time to be more involved.

And you sum up nicely my present issues with 2003 Shredder. I long got over the Utrom revision, but "why should I care if you win?" Unlike the other villains (Karai, Bishop, Chaplin, Baxter, Hun), one can identity with them. After the Utrom reveal after the excellent Season 1 build-up, Utrom Shredder essentially became a living prop (in my opinion, so feel free to correct me or inform me otherwise). Now, he's very competent at what he does, but is that enough? 87 Shredder had his problems, but as noted in other threads, he proved to be an actual character while doing his villainy. Don't have to agree or like with what was done to him, but he was a character, alright.

Then again, one could say that about Mirage Shredder, but between his backstory, motivations (avenging his brother), his overall legacy and paucity of appearances, it balances out. Harder to do over many seasons and Ch'rell's character is more or less constant. Which is interesting, as Mirage in the 2000's was all about changing or progressing their iconic characters, both in form and personality.