Were Bebop/Rocksteady only in the Raph special to gauge fan interest?

*CyberCubed* · 10-12-2012, 09:52 PM

Its been over a year since Bebop/Rocksteady appeared in the IDW series, and that has remained their one and only appearance in the series so far.

While every other character has returned and played some further role, including Alopex who debuted in the same issue, Bebop/Rocksteady never appeared again. We also have no indication if or when they'll ever appear again.

Unlike Krang and the others who obviously had a plotline laid out from the beginning, it seems to me that Bebop/Rocksteady was just thrown in there to gauge fan reaction. Their story was left open ended in case we don't see them again, and if not enough positive reaction was met, the story can simply ignore and move on without them.

I'm starting to think those two actually were included to have token cameos, and it doesn't appear like we're ever going to see the story go back to them as mutants. The fact that over a year has passed and we've seen no mention of them since makes me think they're being forgotten.

Tuxedo Moroboshi · 10-13-2012, 02:17 AM

Another thing to consider is that the Shredder stuff only just recently started to take off, despite the foreshadowing in the Raphael Micro.

*DonatelloFan* · 10-13-2012, 02:31 AM

Yeah, it's been a while, but with Shredder just showing up, and the battle between Shredder/Turtles, Shredder/Krang, etc, I think we'll see more mutants, including Bebop and Rocksteady, soon. We're already getting a bad ass looking Slash.

Lampy · 10-13-2012, 03:32 AM

i don't think that they're being forgotten. to consider the fact that in-comic time is moving rather very slowly (only a few days passed since they first appeared)... give it some time and maybe they'll show. such highly memorable characters such as bebop and rocksteady... who played such a huge role in the OT... deserve a better mutation/introduction than just a cameo... that same scene did not require these characters because the center focus was shredder and the turtles. alopex and karai took a backseat in that issue due to that fact alone. so just give it some time. maybe the "next week (comic-time)" will feature them make a bigger introduction.

*Coola Yagami* · 10-13-2012, 09:51 AM

yeah it's kinda hard to imagine that the whole deal with Leo fighting the Foot, Splinter being captured and rescued and fight with the Shredder and blah blah all took place in about 2 days while it was about 6 issues and 2 micro-specials in the comics.

*MikeandRaph87* · 10-13-2012, 10:16 AM

I got the idea that they were introduced to see if fans wanted more.If enough fans wrote in and fans wanted to see them they would mutate into Bebop and Rocksteady.So if you want them write/emkail in and tell them.It did gauge my disinterest at that point fear a redux of the b&w comics,but now I think its something for all fans.

*Jephael* · 10-13-2012, 10:23 AM

I sure hope they bring back Rocksteady and Bebop. We didn't even hear their names mentioned in the Raphael Micro.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 10-13-2012, 11:19 AM

This is what has me worried, we have heard NOTHING from these two since the micro issue! I'm starting to fear they really were nothing but a homage. Tom, Bobby... please get back to these guys soon!

*Cowabunga Carl* · 10-13-2012, 11:47 AM

Again as I've asked in many other areas, Why? Seriously I want to know why. I understand that people liked them in the OT. I'll admit I liked their action figures growing up. But what does having them around add to the story? How does their inclusion make it better?

*Andrew NDB* · 10-13-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

While every other character has returned and played some further role, including Alopex who debuted in the same issue, Bebop/Rocksteady never appeared again. We also have no indication if or when they'll ever appear again.

So what's the bad news?

*Cipher* · 10-13-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

So what's the bad news?

The (potential, premature) bad news is that regardless of how you feel about past versions of these characters, or the importing for importing's sake of old characters, it's sloppy writing to have so prominently featured these two thugs in that issue and teased their mutations if they're never going to follow through.

Although, let's talk about this: Other than the Rock Soldier's "terrapin armor," have their been any other hints that a human to animal mutation is possible in this continuity? So far the ooze has seemed to work Mirage-style, so it's sort of a baffling position to begin with.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 10-13-2012, 01:03 PM

It's good news to those who don't like them, bad news for those of us who do. Everybody has diffrent opinons.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-13-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher

The (potential, premature) bad news is that regardless of how you feel about past versions of these characters, or the importing for importing's sake of old characters, it's sloppy writing to have so prominently featured these two thugs in that issue and teased their mutations if they're never going to follow through.

Although, let's talk about this: Other than the Rock Soldier's "terrapin armor," have their been any other hints that a human to animal mutation is possible in this continuity? So far the ooze has seemed to work Mirage-style, so it's sort of a baffling position to begin with.

I'm betting that while Krang's faction mutates animals, the Foot Clan's faction mutates people.

*Cipher* · 10-13-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm betting that while Krang's faction mutates animals, the Foot Clan's faction mutates people.

Hm. Plausible. They're going to have to come up with a better explanation than last-animal-you-touched, though. I'm fine with it in the sillier series, but that's too much suspension of disbelief for IDW, even given the liberal dosage of zany sci-fi it already has. And we'd need a plausible way for the Foot to be able to engineer it as such.

Although, yeah. I suppose for that matter it's possible, even probable, that Alopex was originally human.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

It's good news to those who don't like them, bad news for those of us who do. Everybody has diffrent opinons.

Honestly, I think it'd be bad news either way, just by virtue of being an unfired Chekhov's gun.

*CyberCubed* · 10-13-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowabunga Carl

Again as I've asked in many other areas, Why? Seriously I want to know why. I understand that people liked them in the OT. I'll admit I liked their action figures growing up. But what does having them around add to the story? How does their inclusion make it better?

They're ALREADY in the story. I never expected them to be in IDW but there they were.

I honestly wish they were in the Nick show instead, their characters fit the series better.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-13-2012, 02:52 PM

The great Bebop and Rocksteady debate...

I get it, lots of people have a soft nostalgia spot for Bebop and Rocksteady in their minds (up to and probably including, I have to assume, the creative team on IDW TMNT). It becomes embarrassing to listen to/read people try to rationalize them as sound characters in the Fred Wolf show in the here and now ("They were kinda badass in the first two episodes! Really! They did stuff!" etc. etc.), so it's really just as simple as that.

Now, could Tom and company revise Bebop and Rocksteady to such a degree that they wouldn't be incompetent, ineffectual goons whose only purpose is comic relief and slapstick goofiness? Of course, that's easy. But then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady anymore... that was kinda their whole thing. So what, then, would be the point?

The only answer is nostalgia, pure and simple. And nostalgia is a dangerous thing in serialized comics. I'd rather just get the best possible stories with the strongest possible characters and characterization.

And besides, Bebop and Rocksteady BOTH getting spanked by rookie Raphael and a rookie Casey Jones in the Raphael special, even if it's pre-mutation, doesn't exactly succeed in setting them on any kind of a path to badassdom.

*Coola Yagami* · 10-13-2012, 03:05 PM

The way I see it, another thing holding them back was the 80's toon itself, where it HAD to be silly and stuff. Rarely did we see Bebop or Rocksteady actually shoot a Turtle. They would never allow them to punch a Turtle in the face... just like the guys were reduced to throwing pizza and cutting chandeliers on the bad guys. So even if Bebop and Rocksteady return was dumb thugs... at least they'd be allowed to throw down with the Turtles.

What's the point of Bebop and Rocksteady is the same as asking what's the point of Apolex and Old Hob? Hell, Krang was taking showers with his robot suit on and watching soap operas in the old show. They removed those elements and kept the 'alien warlord' angle. Bebop and Rocksteady were mutated street thugs. Keep that angle and remove the overexxagerated stupidity.

*Cipher* · 10-13-2012, 03:10 PM

The whole "debate" over whether Rocksteady and Bebop are worth importing seems kind of moot at this point, though, doesn't it?

I'm not sure I would have voted them back in, personally, or Krang, or anybody. The practice of re-imagining characters is its own issue -- one that plagues franchise genre like no other type of fiction, and one I find myself waffling over all the time. But the issue is that they've already been introduced, fully teased, and it would just be odd to not see it through.

I wouldn't care if those two punks looked nothing like Rocksteady and Bebop and were named Sparky and Skip; they still talked about getting mutated; it still has to happen. Hell, they could mutate into a lion and a zebra and I wouldn't care. It just has to happen.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 10-13-2012, 03:20 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the idea that a goofy character cannot be reinvented as a good and serious character doesn't hold water.

Again I point to the character 'Mister Zero', who quickly became Mister Freeze from the Batman comics. Goofy mad scientist with cold-based powers whose only value throughout the seventies and eightes was the much loathed 'nostalgia'. Yet when Bruce Timm and Tim Daly got hold of him, they reinvented Freeze into a tragic character with a complex backstory about a terminally ill wife. This origin was so good, that the comics adapted from the show.

Following 'goofy character that is goofy and cannot be remade' argument, Freeze should have been dumped and a new character made. Yet a good story was born out of not doing so. Also the argument that a serious rocksteady and bebop are not the same character; are the Adam West Batman and the BTAS batman the same character? Most people would say yes, they are simply diffrent interperetations of said character.

LeoNerdo · 10-13-2012, 03:28 PM

I would be happy either way, but I won't lose sleep if they never show up again. IDW has already borrowed and made reference to so much from the OT I don't think their re-appearance mutated or otherwise is necessary to satisfy persons that feel everything from their childhood needs to be updated for nostalgia's sake.

10-12-2012, 09:52 PM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,831	Were Bebop/Rocksteady only in the Raph special to gauge fan interest? Its been over a year since Bebop/Rocksteady appeared in the IDW series, and that has remained their one and only appearance in the series so far. While every other character has returned and played some further role, including Alopex who debuted in the same issue, Bebop/Rocksteady never appeared again. We also have no indication if or when they'll ever appear again. Unlike Krang and the others who obviously had a plotline laid out from the beginning, it seems to me that Bebop/Rocksteady was just thrown in there to gauge fan reaction. Their story was left open ended in case we don't see them again, and if not enough positive reaction was met, the story can simply ignore and move on without them. I'm starting to think those two actually were included to have token cameos, and it doesn't appear like we're ever going to see the story go back to them as mutants. The fact that over a year has passed and we've seen no mention of them since makes me think they're being forgotten.

10-13-2012, 02:17 AM	#2
Tuxedo Moroboshi Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Battle Nexus Posts: 1,127	Another thing to consider is that the Shredder stuff only just recently started to take off, despite the foreshadowing in the Raphael Micro. __________________ Hey, be sure to check out my art!

10-13-2012, 02:31 AM	#3
DonatelloFan "The Pixel Dad" Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,764	Yeah, it's been a while, but with Shredder just showing up, and the battle between Shredder/Turtles, Shredder/Krang, etc, I think we'll see more mutants, including Bebop and Rocksteady, soon. We're already getting a bad ass looking Slash. __________________ My Pixel Paintings: On this forum On Facebook Samples:

10-13-2012, 09:51 AM	#5
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,693	yeah it's kinda hard to imagine that the whole deal with Leo fighting the Foot, Splinter being captured and rescued and fight with the Shredder and blah blah all took place in about 2 days while it was about 6 issues and 2 micro-specials in the comics. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

10-13-2012, 10:16 AM	#6
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,190	I got the idea that they were introduced to see if fans wanted more.If enough fans wrote in and fans wanted to see them they would mutate into Bebop and Rocksteady.So if you want them write/emkail in and tell them.It did gauge my disinterest at that point fear a redux of the b&w comics,but now I think its something for all fans. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

10-13-2012, 03:32 AM	#4
Lampy Stone Warrior Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 748	i don't think that they're being forgotten. to consider the fact that in-comic time is moving rather very slowly (only a few days passed since they first appeared)... give it some time and maybe they'll show. such highly memorable characters such as bebop and rocksteady... who played such a huge role in the OT... deserve a better mutation/introduction than just a cameo... that same scene did not require these characters because the center focus was shredder and the turtles. alopex and karai took a backseat in that issue due to that fact alone. so just give it some time. maybe the "next week (comic-time)" will feature them make a bigger introduction.

10-13-2012, 10:23 AM	#7
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	I sure hope they bring back Rocksteady and Bebop. We didn't even hear their names mentioned in the Raphael Micro. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

10-13-2012, 11:19 AM	#8
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	This is what has me worried, we have heard NOTHING from these two since the micro issue! I'm starting to fear they really were nothing but a homage. Tom, Bobby... please get back to these guys soon! __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket.

10-13-2012, 11:47 AM	#9
Cowabunga Carl Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,384	Again as I've asked in many other areas, Why? Seriously I want to know why. I understand that people liked them in the OT. I'll admit I liked their action figures growing up. But what does having them around add to the story? How does their inclusion make it better?

10-13-2012, 01:03 PM	#12
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	It's good news to those who don't like them, bad news for those of us who do. Everybody has diffrent opinons. __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket.

10-13-2012, 02:52 PM	#16
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,489	The great Bebop and Rocksteady debate... I get it, lots of people have a soft nostalgia spot for Bebop and Rocksteady in their minds (up to and probably including, I have to assume, the creative team on IDW TMNT). It becomes embarrassing to listen to/read people try to rationalize them as sound characters in the Fred Wolf show in the here and now ("They were kinda badass in the first two episodes! Really! They did stuff!" etc. etc.), so it's really just as simple as that. Now, could Tom and company revise Bebop and Rocksteady to such a degree that they wouldn't be incompetent, ineffectual goons whose only purpose is comic relief and slapstick goofiness? Of course, that's easy. But then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady anymore... that was kinda their whole thing. So what, then, would be the point? The only answer is nostalgia, pure and simple. And nostalgia is a dangerous thing in serialized comics. I'd rather just get the best possible stories with the strongest possible characters and characterization. And besides, Bebop and Rocksteady BOTH getting spanked by rookie Raphael and a rookie Casey Jones in the Raphael special, even if it's pre-mutation, doesn't exactly succeed in setting them on any kind of a path to badassdom. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ] Last edited by Andrew NDB; 10-13-2012 at 11:18 PM.

10-13-2012, 03:05 PM	#17
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,693	The way I see it, another thing holding them back was the 80's toon itself, where it HAD to be silly and stuff. Rarely did we see Bebop or Rocksteady actually shoot a Turtle. They would never allow them to punch a Turtle in the face... just like the guys were reduced to throwing pizza and cutting chandeliers on the bad guys. So even if Bebop and Rocksteady return was dumb thugs... at least they'd be allowed to throw down with the Turtles. What's the point of Bebop and Rocksteady is the same as asking what's the point of Apolex and Old Hob? Hell, Krang was taking showers with his robot suit on and watching soap operas in the old show. They removed those elements and kept the 'alien warlord' angle. Bebop and Rocksteady were mutated street thugs. Keep that angle and remove the overexxagerated stupidity. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

10-13-2012, 03:10 PM	#18
Cipher Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,454	The whole "debate" over whether Rocksteady and Bebop are worth importing seems kind of moot at this point, though, doesn't it? I'm not sure I would have voted them back in, personally, or Krang, or anybody. The practice of re-imagining characters is its own issue -- one that plagues franchise genre like no other type of fiction, and one I find myself waffling over all the time. But the issue is that they've already been introduced, fully teased, and it would just be odd to not see it through. I wouldn't care if those two punks looked nothing like Rocksteady and Bebop and were named Sparky and Skip; they still talked about getting mutated; it still has to happen. Hell, they could mutate into a lion and a zebra and I wouldn't care. It just has to happen.

10-13-2012, 03:20 PM	#19
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	I've said it before and I'll say it again; the idea that a goofy character cannot be reinvented as a good and serious character doesn't hold water. Again I point to the character 'Mister Zero', who quickly became Mister Freeze from the Batman comics. Goofy mad scientist with cold-based powers whose only value throughout the seventies and eightes was the much loathed 'nostalgia'. Yet when Bruce Timm and Tim Daly got hold of him, they reinvented Freeze into a tragic character with a complex backstory about a terminally ill wife. This origin was so good, that the comics adapted from the show. Following 'goofy character that is goofy and cannot be remade' argument, Freeze should have been dumped and a new character made. Yet a good story was born out of not doing so. Also the argument that a serious rocksteady and bebop are not the same character; are the Adam West Batman and the BTAS batman the same character? Most people would say yes, they are simply diffrent interperetations of said character. __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket.

10-13-2012, 03:28 PM	#20
LeoNerdo Stone Warrior Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 872	I would be happy either way, but I won't lose sleep if they never show up again. IDW has already borrowed and made reference to so much from the OT I don't think their re-appearance mutated or otherwise is necessary to satisfy persons that feel everything from their childhood needs to be updated for nostalgia's sake.