Spider-Man To Relaunch After Issue 700

[ZariusTwo]

http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...mber-2012.html

...1999 all over again.

The solits seem to indicate that Slott is doing his own version of 2011's "Death of Spider-Man", only with Doc Ock as the lead bad guy. I'd be all over how unoriginal this was if I hadnt thought the whole thing out and realized this actually makes sense if you consider "DOSM", "Spider-Men" and this as one big story about facing mortality.

[Galactus]

Well at least with this it'd be easy as pie to keep track of the original numbering with #1 really being #701 and so on.

Killing Peter seems too easy for Slott and even though I don't mind the idea of following another Spider-Man for a year or so (I'm a Ben Reilly fan) I'm not fond of Alpha so far who I presume will take over.

Speaking of the 1999 relaunch Howard Mackie used a lot of the ideas that Slott has been using but at the time people hated it but now these ideas are loved. What was weird is that clearly Mackie set out for Peter to lose his job at Tricorp and for Mary Jane's money bubble to burst and for Peter to fall big, one of the few times he seemed to be planning ahead with his work but the initial reaction from fans caused him to put that into affect so suddenly that it was jarring and all the stories he obviously planned went down the drain.

I suppose Slott has implemented these ideas much better and has the benefit of knowing his Spidey history and that the fans were ready for something different when he came aboard but there's something a bit off about it. I'd always wanted Peter to have a job like what he has at Horizon were he can really use the tools to better himself as Spider-Man and for his baddies to get a bit more respect in what they can accomplish but it all seems like overkill. There's been nothing but this since Slott started.

I think that's a problem with both eras. They are defined by one guy who has complete control over all the solo ongoing Spider-Man books. If your a fan of their work that's great but if you're not then you few other options for a bit of variety in your Spider-Man.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Galactus

If your a fan of their work that's great but if you're not then you few other options for a bit of variety in your Spider-Man.

Very true. I know Slott has his fans (and I love the guy on other books like She-Hulk and the Spidey/Human Torch mini-series), but his work on ASM just doesnt sit well with me, and a few Spidey sites I frequent (including one of the major ones, Spider-Man Crawlspace) do nothing but rate his books as mediocre or bad. Not sure if that's fuelled by objectivity or their personal favouratism for a married Spidey (as Crawlspace is very anti-OMD), but the books don't excel in their eyes.

Slott can't take criticism very well either, as he ended up leaving those sites when people there got too vocal about his work (and, even worse, Steven Wacker got himself BANNED from the Crawlspace for TROLLING of all things), so they stay on Echo Chambers like CBR where their butts are kissed all the time by fans.

I think my main problem is that Peter being a high-tech whiz-kid seems "too accomplished" for him. Worse still is, like you said, the inevitable "big fall" will come and the next thing you know he's back to being a photographer or something lower, and noone in the world brings up his previous work stint again (unless the writer is a continuity freak), so I can't possibly be invested in it. It's a short-term deal because it's so different from how the everyman views Peter, they want him in occupations that are more "grounded" like photography, or, as Tom DeFalco brillaintly utilized for Peter's post-Spidey occupation in the Spider-Girl books, something like Police work.

Hell I'm still waiting for Marvel to remember Peter was once a guest on Johnny Carson (and BOY would that go a long way to aging him, which is a no-no with this company).

As for variety, the only Spider-Man I read these days is the newspaper strip, where he's still married, still a photographer, still relatable, and still very entertaining.

[Lampy]

aww..nthere goes marvel's chances of grabbing the record for the longest running comic book series away from DC's Action comics.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Anyone wanna take a guess as to how long it takes Marvel before they revert back to the old numbering scheme?



Marvel restarting all their titles back to number 1's but keeping the same continuity is such bull----. Especially with books like Uncanny X-Men and Incredible Hulk, which were both rebooted like a year ago. At least DC has the nuts to restart all their books with brand new continuity (for the most part).

[Lampy]

Originally Posted by Fugitoid Jones

Anyone wanna take a guess as to how long it takes Marvel before they revert back to the old numbering scheme?

Marvel restarting all their titles back to number 1's but keeping the same continuity is such bull----. Especially with books like Uncanny X-Men and Incredible Hulk, which were both rebooted like a year ago. At least DC has the nuts to restart all their books with brand new continuity (for the most part).

i agree. renumbering and not restarting sounds kinda stupid.
hmmm... i'll give it 10 issues after the renumbering. so 10 months.

[Zulithe]

marvel is really grasping at straws when it comes to titling and numbering its books, constantly changing it up in an attempt to boost sales

not only frequently relaunching with #1s but changing book titles without renumbering them. incredible hulk renamed to... incredible hercules? daredevil changed into a black panther book, and i can't even figure out wtf "captain america and bucky" has turned into since it changes its title every month.

then there's the point one issues

I really hope they do not replace peter with miles... bendis you are ruining everything

[Fugitoid Jones]

Don't forget canceling Fantastic Four so it can become FF, only to bring back Fantastic Four again....

[MrPliggins]

I'm just getting back into comics after years away and I'm pretty confused by the numbering of the Hulk series. There's Incredible Hulk renamed to Hercules, IH was cancelled earlier and relaunched as plain Hulk, but apparently when IH came back, Hulk continued. Then there was a Red Hulk series. Now it seems there's a new IH series. Still confused.
As for Spider-man, I'm a little late to the party as I just read OMD (ugh, worst cop-out ending ever) and started reading Brand New Day. But it's a lot easier to keep track of numbering-wise. As for a relaunch, it seems inevitable when you want to keep the characters young and relevant. It's already happened multiple times in the DC universe, so unless they want to keep aging Peter, something's gotta give. That being said, it would be nice to continue the numbering, but oh well.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Originally Posted by MrPliggins

As for a relaunch, it seems inevitable when you want to keep the characters young and relevant. It's already happened multiple times in the DC universe, so unless they want to keep aging Peter, something's gotta give. That being said, it would be nice to continue the numbering, but oh well.

As I've stated before, the problem with Marvel's relaunchs is that they keep the same old continuity, it's not really much of a jumping on point for most people. If Marvel was going to make their characters young and relevant again, they would have to start over and wipe the slate clean with their continuity, but they won't do that, they just keep introducing new #1's as a gimmick to spike sales.

[Zulithe]

I love what DC did with The New 52 relaunch. A lot of fans were ticked off but now that things are settling I feel most of the books are better than they have been in years. It feels very fresh even 13 issues in and i'm more excited about the books than ever before.

I wish Marvel had the balls to do this.

[Fugitoid Jones]

Originally Posted by Zulithe

I love what DC did with The New 52 relaunch. A lot of fans were ticked off but now that things are settling I feel most of the books are better than they have been in years. It feels very fresh even 13 issues in and i'm more excited about the books than ever before.

I totally agree with you. Alot of long time DC fans are up in arms over the DC reboot, but I honestly really like it cause soo many of their books had been pretty disappointing these past several years. Grant Morrison had been stinking up Batman for quite some time, Superman went from bad (the World of New Krypton crossover) to worse (JMS' year long story involving Superman walking...and walking), a lackluster JLA roster, and lots of other stuff that wasn't Geoff Johns' Green Lantern was sucking and had been for a while.

But now, most of the Batman books have been good, Superman has been good (well Action Comics has at least), The Flash, Green Lantern, JLA...hell, even Aquaman has been really enjoyable!

[Leo656]

It mostly breaks down like this: (Sorry for not being 100% relevant to this specific thread)

People who've been reading DC for 30-odd years or more, like me, are pissed, because despite a few missteps (not disagreeing at all about the post-Infinite Crisis Superman misfires), what was *mostly* a decent and well established Universe, built and expanded through decades of intricate storytelling, was sh*tcanned and replaced with characters and storylines we barely recognize and find either heavy-handed or hard to swallow. A lot of it reads like really cheesy fanfic, mostly written by people who sit around going "Y'know what makes Superman dumb? He wears underpants outside his tights. Let's fix that so he'll be 'hip' and 'cool'!" Or, "Y'know what was wrong with Starfire? She wasn't a big enough slut. Instead of just making her a naive free spirit, let's just make her a giant f*cking whore. Then it'll be PERFECT."

People who always preferred Marvel or never cared about DC much to begin with, they're thrilled, because now DC is doing all the same exact things with their characters that Marvel does when they're in a rut: Erase pesky continuity, get 'em dark, gritty, and half-naked, get 'em all either screwing each other or hating each other (regardless of how we historically know the characters to interact), give 'em all new "armor" suits, and call it "fresh" and "hip. instead of "nonsensical", "contrived", or "pointless overkill."

Some of DC's stuff post-Final Crisis wasn't hitting the mark, no. But what they've done and continue to do is like trying to swat a fly with a bazooka. It's NOT the DCU, it's just the Marvel U featuring analogs of DC characters. I liked Supreme Power. I liked it more because the guys weren't actually "Superman" and "Batman".

[CyberCubed]

They just need to end the current universe and reboot everything.

Whenever a new Batman or Spiderman cartoon comes on TV, its a reboot that restarts everything from square one. I always wondered why the comics didn't do the same?

Comics should have a shelf-life of 10-15 years, after that most of the original audience is gone and has moved on and they should reboot everything for new fans. That way older fans also get "Closure" and see how the universe they followed ends, and see endings for their characters rather than being retconned and dragged out forever.

In a way its the same with TMNT. After Volume 4 is concluded, I am perfectly content with the Mirage universe being "over." It lasted 26 years and ran its course.

[ZariusTwo]

The first thing Quesada should have done when he took over was to close out the existing 616 storylines and establish the Ultimate Universe as the main line, instead of trying to juggle all the eggs in one basket. Instead, the Ultimate line was allowed to spiral out of control to the point noone cares about it anymore, and only Bendis keeps it from being niche thanks to his work on USM.

For many, the MC2 Universe is where a lot of Marvel stories were effectivly concluded, and Quesada being a fan of the Spider-Girl books means it was spared a depressing climax when the axe finally fell on it in 2010 (I suspect this had more to do with Quesada's eventual departure as EIC and not sales) so Peter Parker got his happy ending with MJ. It's a shame however that stubborn change-fearing comic fans will probably not accept it as the natural continuation of their heroes lives even when that universe makes far more sense than 616.

[Leo656]

Cubed, all I can really offer is that comics aren't the same as TV or movies, the storytelling is a lot more decompressed, and if things are done well, a total "do-over" every 10 years shouldn't be necessary. And to be real, movies and TV shows do NOT exactly go back to Square One with each new iteration of the same old characters, they tell 90-99% the same exact stories that are done in every other medium, they just fudge dates, clothes, and a few sequential events.

If they did that in comics it'd be awful; it takes 6 to 12 issues (usually also meaning 6 to 12 months) to tell any decent story. So each character would only get to have 10-15 real story arcs before everyone's continuity was re-set and they start from scratch again? That's an awful, awful idea, I'm sorry. TV shows and movies have a built-in expiration date, because actors get older and technology changes, so viewers demand different things. In comics, if the writer does their job, a Superman or Spider-Man story told in a 1970 issue should be just as relevant, both socially and in regards to the character's continuity, as a story told in 2012.

The only reason comic reboots happen as often as they do is that editors get impatient looking for the "next big story", and they force writers to do stories or projects that don't make sense for the characters involved., Like Lana Lang pretty much abandoning her child so she can throw herself at Clark one last time despite him being married, for one example, just because they thought the Lois and Clark marriage needed a "shake-up". It was a lazy excuse to tell a bad story that no one asked for, and it went against a lot of established character history and behavior all around. Not one of the best-remembered Superman arcs from the last 10 years, because it came off as forced and unnecessary.

Also sometimes these retcon/reboots happen just because artists get bored and suddenly everyone needs a new costume and it has to have a "reason". Or like New 52, it's a little of both. I'm GLAD they don't restart everything every 15 years, it'd be even harder to keep track of things than it is now. Comics just don't tell stories the same way as TV shows, it's a similar yet entirely different kind of storytelling.

[Ninjinister]

Word on the street is that the new Spidey is

Spoiler:

Miguel O'Hara

wat

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The first thing Quesada should have done when he took over was to close out the existing 616 storylines and establish the Ultimate Universe as the main line, instead of trying to juggle all the eggs in one basket. Instead, the Ultimate line was allowed to spiral out of control to the point noone cares about it anymore, and only Bendis keeps it from being niche thanks to his work on USM.

Horrible idea. The fundamental problem with things like Ultimates lines (or the New 52) is that eventually, no matter what, at a certain point it will become the very thing it was created not to be... burdened with its own continuity.

They're fun for short term "what if?" thrills, nothing more. If attempted to be used as an end-all, be-all bandaid, it's both fundamentally impossibly and it just sets a horrible, horrible precedent to readers and readership confidence ("If we think there's too much continuity, we're just gonna reboot your books again... stay tuned!").

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Prefight Doughnuts

Word on the street is that the new Spidey is

Spoiler:

Miguel O'Hara

wat

Which version though? There's been as many alternate universe versions of that character as there's been of Peter.

Spoiler:

Oddly enough, one version of O'Hara (the one from Exiles) once shacked up with Gwen Stacy, and solits reveal this one is expected to woo MJ...I wish Marvel would remember Miguel had unique love interests of his own and were pretty interesting ones at that, no need to move in on Pete's territory, that seems mainly to troll fans. Ah well, not that it matters, MJ is still Peter's girl in MC2 and the newspaper strip, and they make more sense than 616)

[ZariusTwo]

Just skimmed through the latest issue of ASM, which began the final arc leading into 700

I’m all for “new” and “different” stories, but there are some that you just don’t tell, at least not with certain characters. Doc Ock is one of them. I’m sure some of you will remember the classic story from the Clone Saga era called “Web of Death” where Doc Ock discovers Peter Parker is Spider-Man (not for the first time, as he unmasked him back in the 60s but convinced himself that Peter wasn’t Spidey due to Peter being ill and in no state to fight him at the time) and works feverishly on a means of saving his life from a fatal virus Peter has been infected with in the previous story “Back From The Edge”. Octopus’s motivation for this was that he found Peter to be his equal and wanted to content himself with having a merry dance against Spidey “forever”. Of course, Kaine promptly kills him before we see anything of this interesting new development, and by the time he’s resurrected by The Hand a few years later, he’s left with no memory of Peter’s true identity, just a burning vindictive hate of Spidey, which is understandable, but heaven knows what their relationship would have been like if Otto had retained his memories. I suspect it’d have been a bit more personal, and a lot more fun. It would have made Otto a more well-rounded character, it may even have made him a little lighter and helped heal his psychological wounds. Sadly, optimistic character development such as this is what ultimately made Marvel chicken out of that with The Sandman and reduced him to a generic psycho heavy again…can’t give these guys a break can you Marvel?

So somehow Octopus has traded his mind for Peters and is now inhabiting his body, the first question that comes to mind is “If Octavius values Peter Parker as an equal he can have fun with, why is he condemning him to this sort of fate? Why is he leaving him to die?”

Another question stems from Octopus’ long-documented affection for Aunt May, if he cares so much for May, why would he subject her nephew to this type of torture? It makes no sense.

Now, if this were, say, Norman Osborn, that would be completely reasonable, frightening, and more importantly, in-character given his history of manipulating Peter at every turn, but rolly polly psycho but fun Otto Octavious suddenly acting like this? What next? The Living Brain as part of the Sinister Six? (wink wink, nudge nudge)

It also means the most important women in Peter’s life, two women who know him inside and out and who can SENSE when something is off, Aunt May and Mary Jane, are going to be made out to be idiots. Aunt May once figured out the robots impersonating Peter’s parents were phonies, and Mary Jane on several occasions, has worked out that someone is impersonating the man she loves. Otto’s disguise shouldn’t be able to work even if he’s armed with Peter’s memories, and I hope Slott remembers this before these events damage those characters beyond repair.

But I don’t care, really I don’t. As I’ve said before, 616 is just an alternate continuity, it’s not the real one, it’s too ridiculous to be. The real continuity is a choice between the MC2 Universe, the home of a happily married Peter and MJ as well as their two kids, one of whom is Spider-Girl, or the newspaper strip by Stan Lee, where Peter and MJ are also married and where none of these events have occurred. It’s nice to know there are options out there for fans tired of Marvel’s latest brain-dead and creatively bankrupt attempts to be “new” and “different” by making their characters look like retards and psychologically breaking some of the best female characters in comics like Mary Jane/. I hope you’re proud of yourselves, and I hope the docile little trailer park thrash that like this book get all they deserve coming to them. They need all the plebs they can get.