What is it that this new series has...

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by JLS

And a thank you "Zodiac Brave" and "Coola Yagami", for giving some objectivity support into this discussion...

welcome!

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by JLS

Now I was not bad mouthing the 2003 version or that it would eventually have its own unique tone, but its just very "off-putting" when any series (cartoon or any show) starts off comparing itself to another before it even established its own identity. When it started off, I was thinking "OKAY ALREADY. Dang! How long are you gonna keep telling us you're not the OT??"

It established its own identity right from the beginning. Those callbacks to the OT is the same thing Nick is doing. When Nick showed Mike's "OT face" isn't that the same thing?

Where the hell do you even get the idea that the 4kids series kept bringing up the original toon? In the first season all we got is a few "No Cowabunga" jokes and that's it. We later see April dress up as a news reporter in Season 2.

I mean the OT was childish and silly beyond belief at times (like other cartoons), but it still was able to grab hold of the general adult public demographic (outside of the TMNT fandom) which I haven't seen with the 2K3 series.

Seems to me many adults enjoyed watching the show judging by the review threads on Toonzone, TV.com, and other animation sites that don't have a TMNT bias.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It established its own identity right from the beginning. Those callbacks to the OT is the same thing Nick is doing. When Nick showed Mike's "OT face" isn't that the same thing?

easter eggs and references are different than pointed subtext and remarks. you obviously dont know the differences, especially considering all the "easter eggs" you mentioned that AREN'T, in the "Easter Eggs" thread. having mikey's ot face is a reference to the old toon. having raph constantly "bap" mikey for saying cowabunga is the 4kids producers trying to make an awkward and annoying point.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Where the hell do you even get the idea that the 4kids series kept bringing up the original toon? In the first season all we got is a few "No Cowabunga" jokes and that's it. We later see April dress up as a news reporter in Season 2.

he never said they kept bringing it up, he said it kept trying to remind us its wasn't the ot...again with those awkward, "subtle" jabs at the ot.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Seems to me many adults enjoyed watching the show judging by the review threads on Toonzone, TV.com, and other animation sites that don't have a TMNT bias.

dude..clear your mind, take a deep breath and READ...
FANS ARE GOING TO LIKE IT. PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ON THE INTERNET POSTING ON INTERNET FORUMS ABOUT CARTOONS PROBABLY DID NOT. THATS THE POINT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET ACROSS.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

easter eggs and references are different than pointed subtext and remarks. you obviously dont know the differences, especially considering all the "easter eggs" you mentioned that AREN'T, in the "Easter Eggs" thread. having mikey's ot face is a reference to the old toon. having raph constantly "bap" mikey for saying cowabunga is the 4kids producers trying to make an awkward and annoying point.

I don't even know where you get this idea from. It happened once, or maybe twice over the entire run of the show as a JOKE for people who grew up with the OT. And you're claiming this preventing the 4kids series from establishing its own identity? Seriously, what in the world?

he never said they kept bringing it up, he said it kept trying to remind us its wasn't the ot...again with those awkward, "subtle" jabs at the ot.

None of them were jabs. April dressing up as a news reporter, Gen dressing up as Rocksteady were all nods to the past.

dude..clear your mind, take a deep breath and READ...
FANS ARE GOING TO LIKE IT. PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ON THE INTERNET POSTING ON INTERNET FORUMS ABOUT CARTOONS PROBABLY DID NOT. THATS THE POINT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET ACROSS.

Well considering we have no way of asking random people on the street what they thought of a cartoon, we can only go by ratings reports and review threads about what people thought of it on the internet.

Also in case you don't know, most adults actually don't watch cartoons outside adult comedies like Simpsons/Family guy. When I was in College I was pretty much one of the few people who still watched cartoons while everyone else was wondering what I was still doing watching, "kids shows."

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I don't even know where you get this idea from. It happened once, or maybe twice over the entire run of the show as a JOKE for people who grew up with the OT. And you're claiming this preventing the 4kids series from establishing its own identity? Seriously, what in the world?



None of them were jabs. April dressing up as a news reporter, Gen dressing up as Rocksteady were all nods to the past.

ok.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Well considering we have no way of asking random people on the street what they thought of a cartoon, we can only go by ratings reports and review threads about what people thought of it on the internet.

right.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Also in case you don't know, most adults actually don't watch cartoons outside adult comedies like Simpsons/Family guy. When I was in College I was pretty much one of the few people who still watched cartoons while everyone else was wondering what I was still doing watching, "kids shows."

my bad. im sorry my knowledge of EVERYONE OTHER THAN MYSELF is lacking. im glad you're here to tell me the absolute truth about everyone who isn't me.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

dude..clear your mind, take a deep breath and READ...
FANS ARE GOING TO LIKE IT. PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ON THE INTERNET POSTING ON INTERNET FORUMS ABOUT CARTOONS PROBABLY DID NOT. THATS THE POINT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET ACROSS.

Exactly, Zodiac Brave..and thank you. I mean honestly not everyone who doesn't like it is gonna waste their time on those internet forums just to post "this sucks" and give a bad rating on a website. So maybe those websites aren't necessarily THE most accurate assessment of the general public. LOL

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Where the hell do you even get the idea that the 4kids series kept bringing up the original toon?

LOL, wow must have definitely pushed a button there for that reaction.
Some people take things WAY too seriously on this forum. ...WAY too seriously...
**cautiously tip-toes in a backwards direction out of the thread***

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by JLS

LOL, wow must have definitely pushed a button there for that reaction.
Some people take things WAY too seriously on this forum. ...WAY too seriously...
**cautiously tip-toes in a backwards direction out of the thread***

I'm not taking things too seriously, I just don't understand where the logic behind, "it doesn't have its own identity" comes from. That doesn't even make any sense to me, because the mere fact that it exists and did different things than the previous cartoon made it its own identity.

[Mondo_Gecko]

I think what JLS, Zodiac and Yagami are trying to say, and what you're not understanding, is there is a difference between popularity and being a fan.

I'll try to give an example, Two and a Half Men and Justin Beiber are popular. Do I like them? No, but there is no denying their popularity and being in the public sphere. When I was a child I enjoyed cartoons such as Bucky O'Hare, Toxic Crusaders, Mighty Max and Eerie Indiana. These were not popular shows, meaning that everyone knew them, they had a niche fan base. It doesn't take away my rabid love and fandom, but they certainly would never be called popular or even critically acclaimed.

A more recent example is a show called Awake. Awake premiered at the beginning of the year, to critical acclaim, most critics called it "the best pilot of the season" Was Awake popular? No, it was swiftly canceled. That is an example of a show, that most likely ten years later will still be highly regarded such as the DCAU is other critics.

There is a huge difference between actual critical acclaim and a fan base and love such as yours for the 2K3 cartoon. Just like there is for popularity and liking or regarding something. Does that help?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by tmntfannumerouno

Honestly the fact that it was on Nick wasn't necessarily a good thing for me. The last toon I watched on Nick was Rocket Power and since then not much from them has peaked my interest

You liked something as terrible as Rocket Power and you thought something like Airbender or Anubis couldnt peak your interest?

Ooook

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Mondo_Gecko

There is a huge difference between actual critical acclaim and a fan base and love such as yours for the 2K3 cartoon. Just like there is for popularity and liking or regarding something. Does that help?

So then you can say this for anything then. The Nick cartoon isn't popular with everyone, a lot of "casuals" dropped off after the first 3 episodes which are why ratings have declined a lot since September.

Some people only checked out the beginning of the show to see what it was like.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It's everything a lot of us hoped the 2003 show to be. It combines the humor of the 1987 show with the dark Mirage feeling.

Havint Splinter to be Hamato Yoshi is probably what's most popular. For years, I've seen fanworks on the Internet where the creator creates his/her own TMNT universe, and many of them use this concept, even if the tone is more Mirage-dark.

[TMNT-Leonardo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

So then you can say this for anything then. The Nick cartoon isn't popular with everyone, a lot of "casuals" dropped off after the first 3 episodes which are why ratings have declined a lot since September.

Some people only checked out the beginning of the show to see what it was like.

What's your point exactly? That just because the 2K3 series isn't popular with everyone, it means that it's still extremely popular and critically acclaimed? It's not. The 2K3 was moderately succesful at best. It's nowhere near the critical acclaim you seem to beleive it is.

The changing timeslots probably didn't help the factor either. And yes IT DID change timeslots. It was done to the point where I'm sure most kids (and adults) would have decided not to bother trying to find it.

[Avatar Yuffie]

And to be fair, 2K3 lasted seven seasons. That's pretty good, IMHO. It just didn't bleed to the consciousness of the public. I mean, I'd read the reviews of the 2K7 CGI TMNT film and the complaints from the writers who on earth Karai was, even when she was a major character by that time in the tv series.

[TMNT-Leonardo]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

And to be fair, 2K3 lasted seven seasons. That's pretty good, IMHO. It just didn't bleed to the consciousness of the public.

Oh yeah, there's no denying it had a good run. It's just didn't stick out in the public's mind.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TMNT-Leonardo

What's your point exactly? That just because the 2K3 series isn't popular with everyone, it means that it's still extremely popular and critically acclaimed? It's not. The 2K3 was moderately succesful at best. It's nowhere near the critical acclaim you seem to beleive it is.

The changing timeslots probably didn't help the factor either. And yes IT DID change timeslots. It was done to the point where I'm sure most kids (and adults) would have decided not to bother trying to find it.

I don't know where you live, but on the East Coast it aired at 10am every Saturday for nearly 8 years.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, not only did noone know who Karai was in the 07 movie, despite her being a major character in the series at the time... most people review Turtles Forever only knowing about the OT cast and not knowing nearly anything about the 2K3 cast. I wouldn't be surprised if people still thought 'wait... there was a new turtles cartoon in 2003? what?'.

I honestly don't know why, hell, I was a big fan at the time and followed every episode. But I guess that's how it was for everyone else.

[TMNT-Leonardo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I don't know where you live,

It takes 5 seconds to figure that out by looking under a persons avatar for the word "Location" if they chose to put it.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

but on the East Coast it aired at 10am every Saturday for nearly 8 years.

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

really? hahaha! you're honestly so arrogant in your opinions that you're going to conclude that i just didn't know when it was on. dude, the show was syndicated. it aired at different times in different parts of the country. in south texas it DIDNT air for 7 years at the same time on the same channel.

The airing was different depending on the country, and in some places it changed a lot. It might have aired at 10 where YOU were, but where I was it shifted from about 10-11, depening on which season it was at. The time slot was not always consistant. That much is true. You can't keep use "where you were at" as an example that it aired like that for everyone because there's enough people here who can say themselves it aired at a different time where they live.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Yeah, not only did noone know who Karai was in the 07 movie, despite her being a major character in the series at the time... most people review Turtles Forever only knowing about the OT cast and not knowing nearly anything about the 2K3 cast. I wouldn't be surprised if people still thought 'wait... there was a new turtles cartoon in 2003? what?'.

LOL Seriosuly, this happens a lot when I bring up ninja turtles. My friends had no idea there was a cartoon in 2003, despite all the merchaindise and toys that was almost everywhere at that point.

[Coola Yagami]

Exactly, I don't know why, but it just didn't 'spread like wildfire' like this new one did. I'm still surprised some stores I hit Black Friday were completely cleaned out of TMNT stuff.

[Jester]

I'd almost say the reason that this series is more known is the muscle that Nick is putting behind it. 4Kids lacked the advertising money to pimp out the Turtles like Nick has and is. I'm not even sure how I found out about the 4Kids series before it aired (I know I did, because I told my college friends at the time)...I think it may have been this forum. (Thought I'm unsure, I don't remember lurking before I joined in 2004...)

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TMNT-Leonardo

LOL Seriosuly, this happens a lot when I bring up ninja turtles. My friends had no idea there was a cartoon in 2003, despite all the merchaindise and toys that was almost everywhere at that point.

Do your friends even watch cartoons anymore? If not, its probably why they didn't know about the 4kids cartoon. As I said, MOST TEENS AND ADULTS do not actually watch cartoons outside of the Fox comedies.

Here's another thing, why is it all the major news and animation websites reporting on the Nick show aren't acting like this is the first revival of the property since the 90's? If they didn't think the 4kids show was made, they probably would be reporting things like, "The Turtles are finally back after 15 years with a second cartoon!" and things like that.

Yet....you don't see that. Everyone is aware of the second cartoon that aired from 2003-2010. Nobody thinks the Nick show is the first revival of the property.

Oh, and movie reviewers not knowing who Karai is, is common sense. Movie reviewers don't know ANYTHING about the TMNT franchise. If the new movie had Rat King and Leatherhead in it they wouldn't know who the hell they were either.