The reason why Rick Veitch's stories aren't being collected by IDW

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Jester

Here's a silly question: Could this explain Wyrm, who is in essence a cheap knock off of Bloodsucker?

I half-heartedly joked about that the other day on TMNT Entity.

In all likelihood it's probably just happenstance. Veitch made a mutant leech character in August of 89, then Ryan Brown/Steve Lavigne/Steve Murphy come up with their own mutant leech character in May of 90 (the Playmates toy came out in 91). I guess there are only so many ways you can do a leech mutant. The only trait the two characters share that I found a little too coincidental was the power to be chopped up/blown apart and still be able to reform themselves.

The River trade paperback collection was published by Mirage in July 1991, a year after Wyrm had been created, and obviously before the retroactive work-for-hire contract was issued to Veitch. So looking at the dates, it wouldn't seem that Wyrm was created as a retaliatory "knock off" to cheat Veitch out of royalties for Bloodsucker.

Just two coincidentally similar leech mutants. Still, if anyone ever wanted to USE Bloodsucker in a contemporary piece of TMNT media, they could easily just use Wyrm and make him Bloodsucker in all but the name, as Wyrm's mostly a blank slate in terms of characterization.

[John Pannozzi]

^It wasn't until 1992 that Mirage made TMNT comic creators sign retroactive work-for-hire deals, and Wyrm first appeared two prior, in TMNT Adventures #10 in 1990, so I doubt it.

[CyberCubed]

They were creating a lot of "bug" type mutants at the time, like Scumbug, Antrax, etc....Wyrm being a mutant leech was probably just a coincidence.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Jester

Here's a silly question: Could this explain Wyrm, who is in essence a cheap knock off of Bloodsucker?

I've wondered that myself. I tend to think so, yeah.

[Bjarni]

I thankfully bought the original Vol. 1 so whatever happens - I'm good.

But I would love for a new generation to get into 'The River' as it's a pretty good story.

Also, nothing Rick did hasn't been rehashed before, so if he's worried about not being part of a movie deal, they could do the whole River story without him.

Mikey (instead of Raph) demutated in Year of the Turtle (and all of them except Mikey were suppose to demutate in the sequel to the 2007 movie) and Bloodsucker is exactly like Wyrm from the Archie Comics.
In fact, I'm pretty sure Wyrm is THE Archie counterpart of Bloodsucker.

I understand Veitch 100%, but I do hope that he gives in to the evil corporation simply so the fans can win while he loses.

[Bjarni]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

The only trait the two characters share that I found a little too coincidental was the power to be chopped up/blown apart and still be able to reform themselves.

Also the color scheme. They have similar black dots on them and (I don't remember where I'm getting this information) were both yellow(?)
Maybe that's just a common leech in North America...

[Drose18]

Sorru, is the river when raph gets unmutated by bloodsucker?

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Bjarni

Also the color scheme. They have similar black dots on them and (I don't remember where I'm getting this information) were both yellow(?)
Maybe that's just a common leech in North America...

Well, Wyrm was yellow in the Archie comic but his Playmates toy and Mighty Mutanimals animation model (and toy commercial animation model) were blue.

I don't think we know for sure what color Bloodsucker was. The River was never colorized and he doesn't appear on any of the covers to give an indication.

[Bjarni]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I don't think we know for sure what color Bloodsucker was.

I must have dreamt the story in color back in the day or saw a fan colored version... or something.

But I always felt it was the same character (or an Archie version of the character). Maybe it's all just a coincidence though.

[plastroncafe]

I kind of always assumed he was leech colored.

[CyberCubed]

He should be a brownish yellow.

[Sophie Campbell]

i hope Veitch sticks to his guns on this. more power to him. plastroncafe's got it right, anything less is bullsh*t. i'm sick of seeing fans (and even fellow creators) taking the sides of corporations over the people who actually do the work.

regarding Wyrm, i always thought he was a planarian flatworm, not a leech...

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

regarding Wyrm, i always thought he was a planarian flatworm, not a leech...

Yeah, he's a flatworm.



So he would be those colors.

[DrSpengler]

Looks to be the same critter Bloocksucker was based off of, albeit Bloodsucker was described as a "leech" specifically in the comic, not a flatworm.

Granted, it was probably just an eroneous misidentification (though Don should have known better!)


...God damn, this is a ****** tangent we're all on.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Looks to be the same critter Bloocksucker was based off of, albeit Bloodsucker was described as a "leech" specifically in the comic, not a flatworm.

...God damn, this is a ****** tangent we're all on.

definitely a terrible tangent considering the real-deal issue at hand. XD. that said, i think Bloodsucker was supposed to be a straight-up leech, because while i believe some flatworms do suck blood, planarian worms, like in the photo Andrew posted, don't.

[Andrew NDB]

Perhaps he evolved leech-like qualities after sapping some trace amounts of mutagen through Raphael's pores. Or the Turtles, not up on their flatworm know-how, mistakenly just called it a leech. I'd have probably done the same thing.

I could be mistaken, though, but I thought there was a few narrative blurbs that identified it as a flatworm in-story... hm... I'll have to re-read it again.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Looks to be the same critter Bloocksucker was based off of, albeit Bloodsucker was described as a "leech" specifically in the comic, not a flatworm.

Granted, it was probably just an eroneous misidentification (though Don should have known better!)


...God damn, this is a ****** tangent we're all on.

"Bloocksucker".

Really, Spengler? Really?

[John Pannozzi]

We should email Veitch and ask him about Bloodsucker's species.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

"Bloocksucker".

Really, Spengler? Really?

He who sucks bloock.

[Abnormal Freak]

Originally Posted by frank_one

More or less. You have to consider that those comics he did for Mirage contain characters he doesn't own. It's not really "his own work", it never was.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Seems more like Veitch is just being petty. He knew he was writing for an established comic book franchise rather than his own series.

Its been what...over 20 years since his issues were originally published? Guy needs to let go and get over it.

I can't believe there are actually people outside of corporate offices who don't care about the artist getting his due. This is ridiculous. Veitch wrote and drew those stories, they're his creative property. If he doesn't want to sign over all rights, good for him; hopefully Viacom will strike a proper deal, otherwise just buy the old trade or issues.

IDW's trades suck anyway.