TMNT #16 Discussion

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Galactus

I'm still kind of hoping we get a conclusive reason why Splinter doesn't want them to kill. I think a good idea would be that he realises that any random goon that his sons kill could end up having a relative swearing on them and creating a similar endless cycle.

Splinter pretty much told us why a few issues ago when he delivered his speech about life being sacred and such. He doesn't really want the Turtles' new lives to be tainted with the blood of murder, yet he also knows that by their former lives and teachings, they will inevitably be faced with the decision of taking a life, so he wants them to be able to do so with judicious care rather than cold blood.

On the subject of Slash being shown to survive. While it might have been a good end to the issue to just focus on Leo's guilt I'd argue most readers are aware of the major TMNT characters and know full well Slash would show up again so no need to try and pull the wool over the eyes by making out he's really dead. Not to mention it provided a truly enigmatic ending.

Really, Slash has never been a "major" character outside of the TMNTA books, and that was likely due to his anti-hero turnabout and self sacrifice.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by TomWaltz

It wasn't "comic book logic", my friend. In time, we will know how Hob knew...

Hob's got something going on... scheming... in the shadows...

Pfft.

You writers and your fancy shmancy plotting in advance.

[thelouisguy]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I was more offput by the fact that Hob somehow knew precisely where Slash was going to wash ashore and was there waiting for him.

"Comic book logic", I know, but still.

Originally Posted by TomWaltz

It wasn't "comic book logic", my friend. In time, we will know how Hob knew...

Hob's got something going on... scheming... in the shadows...

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Pfft.

You writers and your fancy shmancy plotting in advance.

Back in my day, all we got was comic book logic, and we liked it that way. You hippies and your plotting in advance. When will you eve r learn that writing yourself into a corner produces the best stories?!

In all seriousness, the fact that the whole team behind this comic care so much about it shows through on every page.

Looking forward to how the next arc is told with so much up in the air already. Do you think we will have little inserts of the Foot, Hob, others?

[Turns]

Originally Posted by Galactus

On the subject of Slash being shown to survive. While it might have been a good end to the issue to just focus on Leo's guilt I'd argue most readers are aware of the major TMNT characters and know full well Slash would show up again so no need to try and pull the wool over the eyes by making out he's really dead. Not to mention it provided a truly enigmatic ending.

Spoiler:

How do you figure? Like previously mentioned the only TMNT universe where Slash could be considered a "major" character in was the Archie series, and in the Archie series he DID die for good along with the Mighty Mutanimals who were even more "major" than he was.

several key characters were killed in the Mirage universe as well (Shredder, Splinter, Baxter, etc...).

Being a major character shouldn't make you immune to death.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Venom

Splinter pretty much told us why a few issues ago when he delivered his speech about life being sacred and such. He doesn't really want the Turtles' new lives to be tainted with the blood of murder, yet he also knows that by their former lives and teachings, they will inevitably be faced with the decision of taking a life, so he wants them to be able to do so with judicious care rather than cold blood.

I suppose he did and it's no more solid than my own suggestion but I guess I'm hoping for a bit more since it seems to be an issue. Not killing a random gang member is fine but not killing Old Hob who was undoubtedly a future threat gives me pause.

Like I said if it's a case of not wanting to show the good guys doing something questionable I think it could easily be done. For example the turtles debate on killing Hob but they hear police sirens getting closer and decide to run rather than risk exposure.

The idea that the Leo is trained in ways of using his katanas that don't cut people seems a bit dodgy to me and something you'd expect a childrens cartoon to come up with but as I've pointed out the 4Kids show found ways around this and so too has the Nick show. I think we can safely assume the turtles outright killing their foes wont happen in the show but while they were unwilling to delieratelely drop Bradford off the roof in Never Say Xever they had no problem kicking Foot Ninja off it in the heat of battle.

Really, Slash has never been a "major" character outside of the TMNTA books, and that was likely due to his anti-hero turnabout and self sacrifice.

You have a point but he is one of the more well known characters that has appeared throughout several TMNT media. He's something of a fan favourite too...heck he even got a figure re-release in the 25th anniversary. Even when we haven't gotten him, we've gotten similar characters like the Dark Turtles in Fast Forward or Hun in Turtles Forever. Dark mirror image versions of the heroes are always a popular trope in fiction. I doubt anyone even vaguely familar with TMNT and modern comic writing would have bought that it was over for him after only a short showing. Yes, the Mirage Shredder was dead after one one issue but that issue told a very complete story and he was definitely shown to be "shredded". Again would anyone really have bought he was dead after just falling into the water?

[Slade]

Just finished reading this issue. It was okay. Another issue I feel like went by quick and not too much really went down.

[Keroscene]

Originally Posted by Venom

Splinter pretty much told us why a few issues ago when he delivered his speech about life being sacred and such. He doesn't really want the Turtles' new lives to be tainted with the blood of murder, yet he also knows that by their former lives and teachings, they will inevitably be faced with the decision of taking a life, so he wants them to be able to do so with judicious care rather than cold blood.

I get the feeling they're trying to reconcile the fact that Splinter is a good father/a good person with the fact that he has in the past deliberately sent his sons off to kill people. That's always seemed a bit weird and contradictory, but this time around there's more of an attempt to explain why he trains them to be ninja and more emphasis on the fact that he's not pro-violent death.

Oh and regarding this issue, my heart pretty much broke for Mikey.

As an aside, this might just be because I'm new to Comixology, but did the price increase to $3.99 per issue recently, or is it just because they're newer issues that they cost more than the others?

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Keroscene

As an aside, this might just be because I'm new to Comixology, but did the price increase to $3.99 per issue recently, or is it just because they're newer issues that they cost more than the others?

I don't use it, but as far as I know, the newest issue is always $3.99 and then drops to $1.99 when the next one comes out.

[Keroscene]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

I don't use it, but as far as I know, the newest issue is always $3.99 and then drops to $1.99 when the next one comes out.

Fair enough (waits a month)

[IMJ]

I enjoyed issues 15 & 16, but the art direction with Slash left a lot to be desired. Basically when you have an IP like this, it's important for characters to be recognizable and the art direction here made Slash look (and, I hate to say it but also sound) like Tokka.

I think it's important to distinguish characters with a clear visual in this kind of series and Slash was never a snapping turtle with a long snout - basically the only piece of art that really got him looking great was the variant cover to issue #16 (which was a terrific piece of art).

I know this is a somewhat corny criticism, but when you've got characters like these that can be easily confused, you've got to source them correctly.

Slash on the variant cover actually looks like his original incarnation, awesome!:


But throughout the actual comics, the art direction (not the linework, but the art direction) is poorly done. Slash looks like Tokka:

[Powder]

I feel you on that. I like the design in general, but not so much for the book. I was really let down after Ross set my expectations so high, haha.

[ToTheNines]

Kuhn was frustrating, but I loved his Slash. It reminded me of Dave Rapoza's take.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Kuhn was frustrating, but I loved his Slash. It reminded me of Dave Rapoza's take.

I see where you are going with this, but the problem isnt about interpretation, but instead art direction. It's funny, we have conversations about this kind of stuff all the time in Iron Man circles too - someone comes in and draws what should be the current armor, but there are liberties taken in small details which lead to discussions regarding whether or not it's a new mark upgrade or just an artist error with the linework or details.

It's sort of frivolous fun with something like Iron Man who evolves visually with new armor, but when it comes to the characters, they really need to look like their model that the fans have come to love. Tony Stark doesn't look like Steve Rogers. Slash doesn't look like Tokka, except for maybe a few spikes on his shell. So basically, we aren't talking about artist interpretation for stuff like that, it's more about source accuracy.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Pfft.

You writers and your fancy shmancy plotting in advance.

All Tom's run has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph! Story arcs years away. Heh. Multiple dangling side plots. Heh. A writer craves not these things.


Just messin' with you, Tom.

[Donnie]

Would have sided with Don & Raph, but I wouldn't be the one delivering the final blow. I felt for Leo!