[IDW] Concerns on Raph's relationship with his brothers and other shenanigans

Martin · 02-21-2013, 08:38 PM

So I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Hell, maybe it's even been brought up in the past. Here it goes:

One would think that, due to the fact that raph spent a year and a half wondering the streets alone, his relationship with his brothers would be a bit more distant, or even a bit awkward. I believed that this origin explained perfectly his 'outsider' mentality, and, if they played they cards right, they could also set a nice groundwork for his 'anger issues'. But none of this has been reflected into the comics so far and, to be honest, after so long I'm not really sure I want to see it explored. I know the reincarnation thing plays a big role in all this (I'll get to that in a minute), but I still believe that they missed out big time on this.

Another thing I've been thinking about as of late is that, maybe, the fact that the story has had such a high peace from so early on (and also that the books are only 20 pages long), is not letting us delve into the characters a little bit more. This series is a very story-driven one (as opposed to most turtle material), which is something that I believe we are all loving about it, but I feel that this focus on the story is not really letting us get into the characters heads to see what's going on in there.

Now I wanna briefly address the reincarnation origin. To be honest I dig it; I mean it does makes more sense than "rat learns ninjitsu from watching his master practice"; but (and there is always a but), there are some things that, if done differently, would have resonated better with me. One thing that comes to mind is the time they spent underground training before going to the surface. It makes sense from a story-telling point to have a brief learning / hiding period. I mean in one clean stroke Tom linked the turtles, baxter, krang and the foot together in one neat little origin. Baxter wanted his mutagen and psychotropic serum back and started hunting for the turtles quite immediately, so there wasn't a lot of time to spare. Also raph ended up separated from the group; having a 15 year hiding period with a broken group would have not worked (or maybe it could... mmm renegade wolverine-like raph, interesting haha). But I don't know if you can establish brotherly relationships in that time (let alone do that same thing in the time that raph spent with them). And here is where the ghost ninja memory theories come in: were their relationships in their past lives reflected into their new ones? I'm guessing that that was what the author went for on this one, and I get it, but I still prefer my turtles growing up together in the sewers

Finally, I would have preferred their past lives to play a more subtle role. I like the idea of them being reincarnated, but I'd liked it better if those memories only kicked in from time to time. Like in a fight, someone shoots an arrow at them and they instinctively know how to avoid it. Things like that (right now they play an active role on their relationships and many other aspects of their current lives).

Anyway, I'm no writer so I'm really in no position to judge anyone, so please don't think I'm doing so here.

Cheers

PS: It's pretty late so if any of this seems a bit ilogical to you, that might be it.

rpd123 · 02-21-2013, 08:49 PM

I see where you're coming from. The reincarnation is kind of iffy for me. It gives more credence to the feud between Splinter and Shredder, given that they were enemies in past lives. And it's not any more ridiculous than a rat learning how to be a ninja from his owner. But the fact that the turtles haven't grown up together and just magically remembered their skills from a past life rubs me the wrong way. Stuff like Secret History of the Foot Clan makes the reincarnation aspect seem like it's a lot deeper and more thought out, but there are still some aspects of reincarnation that I don't like.

Bobby Curnow · 02-21-2013, 09:29 PM

You're absolutely right about the pace of the story affecting how much we dealt with Raph and his absence from the group. It's something i wish we examined more. And we will, in small but important ways in the future. But I do think an opportunity was missed.

There's a lot I think we'd do differently in year 1 if we could do it again, I think. Hindsight!

*CyberCubed* · 02-21-2013, 09:43 PM

This is why I think they should do another round of micros for each Turtle.

Like Leo II, Mike II, Raph II, Don II after the villain micros finish. And this time it should explore their personalities rather than some random story for them.

rpd123 · 02-21-2013, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Curnow

You're absolutely right about the pace of the story affecting how much we dealt with Raph and his absence from the group. It's something i wish we examined more. And we will, in small but important ways in the future. But I do think an opportunity was missed.

There's a lot I think we'd do differently in year 1 if we could do it again, I think. Hindsight!

It's 20/20. I've actually enjoyed the pace of the book, though. Looking forward to seeing how Raphael's absence affects them in the future.

Quote:

This is why I think they should do another round of micros for each Turtle.

Like Leo II, Mike II, Raph II, Don II after the villain micros finish. And this time it should explore their personalities rather than some random story for them.

That'd be cool. Or Tales of the TMNT series *cough*cough*

**Venom** · 02-22-2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpd123

That'd be cool. Or Tales of the TMNT series *cough*cough*

IDw's Turtleverse would greatly benefit by having a Tales series as a companion to the main. It could also be a "talent showcase" for creators who would like to work on Turtles but can't in the long run as well as providing the character building us Miragists enjoyed.

rpd123 · 02-22-2013, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom

IDw's Turtleverse would greatly benefit by having a Tales series as a companion to the main. It could also be a "talent showcase" for creators who would like to work on Turtles but can't in the long run as well as providing the character building us Miragists enjoyed.

My thoughts exactly. I guess the Micro Series serves as that for now, but a Tales series would be more focused on random adventures of the turtles rather than individual characters, which I like. And showcasing people who want to work on TMNT would be cool.

Martin · 02-22-2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom

IDw's Turtleverse would greatly benefit by having a Tales series as a companion to the main. It could also be a "talent showcase" for creators who would like to work on Turtles but can't in the long run as well as providing the character building us Miragists enjoyed.

The thing about a IDW tales would be that this incarnation is very cohesive and story driven, thus not leaving many time gaps in which other writers could fit their stories. Don't get me wrong, I'd totally be down for turtle tales, but as of now it doesn't seem feasible. Maybe in the future something will happen in the main story that creates enough of a time frame for other writers to squeeze their stories in. Though so far, all the time frames available have been used for micros and mini series, so I think that there won't be a period of time 'unused' by IDW that would allow other people to step in; unless it's been already planned.

They've been telling us for a while now that they thought a lot of the story in advance, so it's probable that all this things have been considered already. They surely already know what story or mini series will go in each of the time gaps that they will eventually create.

rpd123 · 02-22-2013, 09:08 PM

That's true, Tales worked because it filled in the gaps between stories and different volumes. But I think it could still work.

02-21-2013, 08:38 PM	#1
Martin Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 596	[IDW] Concerns on Raph's relationship with his brothers and other shenanigans So I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Hell, maybe it's even been brought up in the past. Here it goes: One would think that, due to the fact that raph spent a year and a half wondering the streets alone, his relationship with his brothers would be a bit more distant, or even a bit awkward. I believed that this origin explained perfectly his 'outsider' mentality, and, if they played they cards right, they could also set a nice groundwork for his 'anger issues'. But none of this has been reflected into the comics so far and, to be honest, after so long I'm not really sure I want to see it explored. I know the reincarnation thing plays a big role in all this (I'll get to that in a minute), but I still believe that they missed out big time on this. Another thing I've been thinking about as of late is that, maybe, the fact that the story has had such a high peace from so early on (and also that the books are only 20 pages long), is not letting us delve into the characters a little bit more. This series is a very story-driven one (as opposed to most turtle material), which is something that I believe we are all loving about it, but I feel that this focus on the story is not really letting us get into the characters heads to see what's going on in there. Now I wanna briefly address the reincarnation origin. To be honest I dig it; I mean it does makes more sense than "rat learns ninjitsu from watching his master practice"; but (and there is always a but), there are some things that, if done differently, would have resonated better with me. One thing that comes to mind is the time they spent underground training before going to the surface. It makes sense from a story-telling point to have a brief learning / hiding period. I mean in one clean stroke Tom linked the turtles, baxter, krang and the foot together in one neat little origin. Baxter wanted his mutagen and psychotropic serum back and started hunting for the turtles quite immediately, so there wasn't a lot of time to spare. Also raph ended up separated from the group; having a 15 year hiding period with a broken group would have not worked (or maybe it could... mmm renegade wolverine-like raph, interesting haha). But I don't know if you can establish brotherly relationships in that time (let alone do that same thing in the time that raph spent with them). And here is where the ghost ninja memory theories come in: were their relationships in their past lives reflected into their new ones? I'm guessing that that was what the author went for on this one, and I get it, but I still prefer my turtles growing up together in the sewers Finally, I would have preferred their past lives to play a more subtle role. I like the idea of them being reincarnated, but I'd liked it better if those memories only kicked in from time to time. Like in a fight, someone shoots an arrow at them and they instinctively know how to avoid it. Things like that (right now they play an active role on their relationships and many other aspects of their current lives). Anyway, I'm no writer so I'm really in no position to judge anyone, so please don't think I'm doing so here. Cheers PS: It's pretty late so if any of this seems a bit ilogical to you, that might be it.

02-21-2013, 08:49 PM	#2
rpd123 Thug Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 50	I see where you're coming from. The reincarnation is kind of iffy for me. It gives more credence to the feud between Splinter and Shredder, given that they were enemies in past lives. And it's not any more ridiculous than a rat learning how to be a ninja from his owner. But the fact that the turtles haven't grown up together and just magically remembered their skills from a past life rubs me the wrong way. Stuff like Secret History of the Foot Clan makes the reincarnation aspect seem like it's a lot deeper and more thought out, but there are still some aspects of reincarnation that I don't like.

02-21-2013, 09:29 PM	#3
Bobby Curnow Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,518	You're absolutely right about the pace of the story affecting how much we dealt with Raph and his absence from the group. It's something i wish we examined more. And we will, in small but important ways in the future. But I do think an opportunity was missed. There's a lot I think we'd do differently in year 1 if we could do it again, I think. Hindsight!

02-21-2013, 09:43 PM	#4
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,700	This is why I think they should do another round of micros for each Turtle. Like Leo II, Mike II, Raph II, Don II after the villain micros finish. And this time it should explore their personalities rather than some random story for them.

02-22-2013, 09:08 PM	#9
rpd123 Thug Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 50	That's true, Tales worked because it filled in the gaps between stories and different volumes. But I think it could still work.